Re: [Emc-developers] LinuxCnc growing with to much none essential code
Agreed! Not everyone likes QtPyVCP, Qt, Tk, Gtk.. and users should have the freedom to install the interface they want and not have to have the ones they don't need. But this would be an immense undertaking to make possible. Cheers! Kurt On Thu, Dec 1, 2022 at 12:44 AM Johannes P Fassotte < johan...@automationassist.com> wrote: > I have noticed that over the years LinuxCnc is taking up more and more > space and that this is mostly related to supporting the QT related > work. When looking at the amount of Pythom code that is now contained > in LinuxCnc it appears to equal more than 90% of all the code present > based on my prior searches and charting. > > I'm not in love with QT and in my personnal LinuxCnc installs QT related > items are one of the first things that gets removed from LinuxCnc. To me > it is just a tool to allow building QT based sluggish user interfaces > that I dont use. It would be better if it was a optional install for > users that which to use it. I do understand that it has taken a lot of > work to develop the QT things but I would like to see LinuxCnc trimmed > down to just containing the essential things. > > As far as tools for building user interfaces It would also not surprise > me if the next fad for building those is just around the corner and that > QT will hopefully be just part of the old LinuxCnc history. I there > will always be newer and better ways to get things done without getting > trapped into a current fad. > > It was not to may years ago that LinuxCnc was just over 120Mb in > extracted size. Now V 2.9 master is takes up 252Mb so its getting > bloaded with a lot of none essential things. I think it needs a good > cleaning to get it back on track. I feel that there are to many > personnal projects being added that are better suited to be developer > supported addtions and not part of LinuxCnc itself. > > > > > > > ___ > Emc-developers mailing list > Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers > ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
Re: [Emc-developers] LinuxCnc growing with to much none essential code
Le jeu. 1 déc. 2022 à 20:26, Sebastian Kuzminsky a écrit : > On 11/30/22 22:24, Johannes P Fassotte wrote: > > It was not to may years ago that LinuxCnc was just over 120Mb in > > extracted size. Now V 2.9 master is takes up 252Mb so its getting > > bloaded with a lot of none essential things. I think it needs a good > > cleaning to get it back on track. I feel that there are to many > > personnal projects being added that are better suited to be developer > > supported addtions and not part of LinuxCnc itself. > > I think the best way to address this concern would be to provide > finer-grained packaging, so that users can choose what GUIs to install. > Indeed ! I hope this is something we'll reach someday 爛 There is a strong incentive to keep the GUIs in our repo, so that GUI > developers don't have to reproduce our test & packaging infrastructure. > hmm, well, with all the automation possibilities we have, I don't think this is such a big issue. As far as tests, build and packaging are concerned, I feel like the biggest problems are: * like Johannes pointed, that our repository is becoming a heterogeneous behemoth * there is a problem of knowledge sharing on these matters Let me take two late contributions of yours as examples: * you tweaked the GitHub workflow to use Docker containers, and build for several Debian versions and architectures, which is awesome, and the bonus point is that it is just there, available in a standard place where anyone with GH practice can find it and understand it. I already stumbled on a couple of actions that could add small shinny bells to it * you configured publishing of the (devel) translated docs -- thanks a ton for that, that made my day this morning -- I have neither idea how you did it, nor where to look at to learn. Going further, if those related projects were split: * each would have a much simpler build system, instead of our current big "recette du chef" * finer-grained packages would come naturally, and most probably at an even finer granularity than we could envision today * each could freely and more easily adopt practices and tools most suitable to the languages and technologies they use, as well as a development lifecycle of their own * last but not least, this would support the (re)definition, documentation, versioning and improvement of components interfaces This would bring us a cleaned up and refined architecture overall open the project to more collaborations and evolutions, as well as make the cool kids think they could have good times hacking here :) We could move (for example) the Qt stuff into a new `linuxcnc-gui-qt` > package, which would be installed by default but easy for an end user to > remove. > I wish one could run `apt install [axis|gmoccapy|silverdragon|probe-basic]` and get Debian making its magic pulling all that's needed and only that. > I have no intention of working on this myself, but I would be happy to > review a PR that has successfully made it past our automated package & > test systems. > No rush, Gene just gave us hope that we'll still be here in more than 40 years Peace J ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
Re: [Emc-developers] LinuxCnc growing with to much none essential code
On 11/30/22 22:24, Johannes P Fassotte wrote: It was not to may years ago that LinuxCnc was just over 120Mb in extracted size. Now V 2.9 master is takes up 252Mb so its getting bloaded with a lot of none essential things. I think it needs a good cleaning to get it back on track. I feel that there are to many personnal projects being added that are better suited to be developer supported addtions and not part of LinuxCnc itself. I think the best way to address this concern would be to provide finer-grained packaging, so that users can choose what GUIs to install. There is a strong incentive to keep the GUIs in our repo, so that GUI developers don't have to reproduce our test & packaging infrastructure. We could move (for example) the Qt stuff into a new `linuxcnc-gui-qt` package, which would be installed by default but easy for an end user to remove. I have no intention of working on this myself, but I would be happy to review a PR that has successfully made it past our automated package & test systems. -- Sebastian Kuzminsky ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
Re: [Emc-developers] LinuxCnc growing with to much none essential code
I would agree that development tools in Linuxcnc is not ideal, I think also in many cases it can bring a level of confusion to new users. I also think that it should be weighed and a solution found to bring those UI's that users would want to use into an easy to install situation that did not require pages of installation instructions foreign to windows conversion users or that would make it overly complicated. I truly believe this will thwart the user growth of linuxcnc over time. Probe basic before the py2/3 conversion issues, had an easy to install user version that was for the user who just wanted to run their machines and did not intend to make changes to the UI. There was also the developer installation which would allow for the installation of the QT developer kit for those who wanted to customize the UI and tailor it to their needs. I think maybe a macro solution to this would be to have the UI’s made available to be installed as a choice, but from within linuxcnc without the requirement of having it integrated in the linuxcnc installation. It seems to make the most sense and not force users to install unneeded/unwanted components. Perhaps it uses a script call, or installer download or Package Manager Etc. Joco wrote a script for installing Linuxcnc 2.9, the required RT Kernel, QtPyVCP and Probe Basic to make life a little simpler during this transition period and it works well save for it is rather lengthy installation time and update time (not complaining as I am grateful for the work Joco did to make it). My vision from the new user’s perspective would have a drop down menu very much like already exists with a tree branch for the developer version and user version of the available to install UI's for Linuxcnc and when selected would trigger the install of the user's selection. This would help keep the bloat out of Linuxcnc. In the docs as has been could be screen shots of each UI to help users decide on their flavor of UI for their machine types. I think this would simplify installation from the user’s perspective and would resolve the bloat growth within Linuxcnc. This will help bridge user tastes as some will want a more minimal UI and some will want a more robust UI that may take up more space and take a few seconds longer to load. Thoughts? Chris On Thu, Dec 1, 2022 at 12:44 AM Johannes P Fassotte wrote: > > I have noticed that over the years LinuxCnc is taking up more and more > space and that this is mostly related to supporting the QT related > work. When looking at the amount of Pythom code that is now contained > in LinuxCnc it appears to equal more than 90% of all the code present > based on my prior searches and charting. > > I'm not in love with QT and in my personnal LinuxCnc installs QT related > items are one of the first things that gets removed from LinuxCnc. To me > it is just a tool to allow building QT based sluggish user interfaces > that I dont use. It would be better if it was a optional install for > users that which to use it. I do understand that it has taken a lot of > work to develop the QT things but I would like to see LinuxCnc trimmed > down to just containing the essential things. > > As far as tools for building user interfaces It would also not surprise > me if the next fad for building those is just around the corner and that > QT will hopefully be just part of the old LinuxCnc history. I there > will always be newer and better ways to get things done without getting > trapped into a current fad. > > It was not to may years ago that LinuxCnc was just over 120Mb in > extracted size. Now V 2.9 master is takes up 252Mb so its getting > bloaded with a lot of none essential things. I think it needs a good > cleaning to get it back on track. I feel that there are to many > personnal projects being added that are better suited to be developer > supported addtions and not part of LinuxCnc itself. > > > > > > > ___ > Emc-developers mailing list > Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
Re: [Emc-developers] LinuxCnc growing with to much none essential code
> ... > As far as tools for building user interfaces It would also not > surprise > me if the next fad for building those is just around the corner and > that > QT will hopefully be just part of the old LinuxCnc history. I there > will always be newer and better ways to get things done without > getting > trapped into a current fad. Used glade for adding extra panel and think it works rather well. > ... ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
