[Emc-users] Heads up on TSC's Kawasaki 14 abrasive chop saw.

2014-02-14 Thread Gene Heskett
I just bought one yesterday thought maybe it might be helpful around the 
ranch. Big buck  taxes, cheap IOW.

Don't waste your money on it, the blade only spins 2800 rpms, and you have 
got to get totally, downright brutal with it to even think about starting 
the fire that makes these things work like a cutting torch,  I managed it 
for about 1/2 going thru a 1x2 bar standing on edge, but the fire was so 
poorly air fed the sparks were bouncing off the garage wall 8 feet away, 
potentially falling into the dust tinderbox behind my 12 chop saw.  So 
reverting to abrasive only cutting, it took me about 20 minutes for one 
cut.  Not at all a tool suitable for the job.  Once the fire was started, 
it should have totally consumed all the iron flowing out of the cut in less 
that 18 from the back of the cut.  I have seen these things work, first 
time in about 1948.  With the 9 blade spinning right at its max rpms, 
close to 15k, it was dropping thru a 1.5 square mount spud that was no 
longer needed for an eyeglass lens grinding machine, with about a 1 hp 
motor spinning it, took 3 or 4 secs to start the fire  just fell thru that 
1.25 square stud in the next 10 seconds, making a very clean cut.  This is 
a pure crap tool.  Look for one that spins that 14 wheel at least 5.2k 
rpms, and has enough cage around it to safely let it blow up.  This piece 
of tinfoil might stop one exploding blade.  Emphasis on the might.

Cheers, Gene
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.
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Genes Web page http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene

NOTICE: Will pay 100 USD for an HP-4815A defective but
complete probe assembly.


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Re: [Emc-users] Heads up on TSC's Kawasaki 14 abrasive chop saw.

2014-02-14 Thread Dave Cole
Hi Gene,

I have no knowledge of that particular saw.   I have an old 14 Black 
and Decker chop saw and it has worked well for me for years.
The trick I found is to get the right abrasive blades for it. Some are 
pure crap.  Typically, the cheap ones are junk.
Once I figured out which ones ran the best, I bought a bunch of them.
Since then, I acquired a bandsaw which work well for heavy steel, but 
still, the chop saw is valuable for hardened steel or cutting hydraulic 
hose.
But there is nothing tidy about a chop saw.   They are brutal, brute 
force, screaming machines.

Hearing protection is recommended.

If I need to use it for more than a simple, short duration cut,  I take 
the saw outside and point it at something non-flammable.

Wearing gloves is also a good idea as the material being cut becomes hot 
and sharp edged..

Dave

On 2/14/2014 2:11 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
 I just bought one yesterday thought maybe it might be helpful around the
 ranch. Big buck  taxes, cheap IOW.

 Don't waste your money on it, the blade only spins 2800 rpms, and you have
 got to get totally, downright brutal with it to even think about starting
 the fire that makes these things work like a cutting torch,  I managed it
 for about 1/2 going thru a 1x2 bar standing on edge, but the fire was so
 poorly air fed the sparks were bouncing off the garage wall 8 feet away,
 potentially falling into the dust tinderbox behind my 12 chop saw.  So
 reverting to abrasive only cutting, it took me about 20 minutes for one
 cut.  Not at all a tool suitable for the job.  Once the fire was started,
 it should have totally consumed all the iron flowing out of the cut in less
 that 18 from the back of the cut.  I have seen these things work, first
 time in about 1948.  With the 9 blade spinning right at its max rpms,
 close to 15k, it was dropping thru a 1.5 square mount spud that was no
 longer needed for an eyeglass lens grinding machine, with about a 1 hp
 motor spinning it, took 3 or 4 secs to start the fire  just fell thru that
 1.25 square stud in the next 10 seconds, making a very clean cut.  This is
 a pure crap tool.  Look for one that spins that 14 wheel at least 5.2k
 rpms, and has enough cage around it to safely let it blow up.  This piece
 of tinfoil might stop one exploding blade.  Emphasis on the might.

 Cheers, Gene

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Re: [Emc-users] Heads up on TSC's Kawasaki 14 abrasive chop saw.

2014-02-14 Thread Pete Matos
Never met an abrasive chop saw I liked.  Even the better ones are no fun to
use.  I'll take a bandsaw any day...Kawasaki is just another off branded
chinese POS as far as I have seen. Peace

Pete



On Fri, Feb 14, 2014 at 2:32 PM, Dave Cole linuxcncro...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi Gene,

 I have no knowledge of that particular saw.   I have an old 14 Black
 and Decker chop saw and it has worked well for me for years.
 The trick I found is to get the right abrasive blades for it. Some are
 pure crap.  Typically, the cheap ones are junk.
 Once I figured out which ones ran the best, I bought a bunch of them.
 Since then, I acquired a bandsaw which work well for heavy steel, but
 still, the chop saw is valuable for hardened steel or cutting hydraulic
 hose.
 But there is nothing tidy about a chop saw.   They are brutal, brute
 force, screaming machines.

 Hearing protection is recommended.

 If I need to use it for more than a simple, short duration cut,  I take
 the saw outside and point it at something non-flammable.

 Wearing gloves is also a good idea as the material being cut becomes hot
 and sharp edged..

 Dave

 On 2/14/2014 2:11 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
  I just bought one yesterday thought maybe it might be helpful around the
  ranch. Big buck  taxes, cheap IOW.
 
  Don't waste your money on it, the blade only spins 2800 rpms, and you
 have
  got to get totally, downright brutal with it to even think about starting
  the fire that makes these things work like a cutting torch,  I managed it
  for about 1/2 going thru a 1x2 bar standing on edge, but the fire was so
  poorly air fed the sparks were bouncing off the garage wall 8 feet away,
  potentially falling into the dust tinderbox behind my 12 chop saw.  So
  reverting to abrasive only cutting, it took me about 20 minutes for one
  cut.  Not at all a tool suitable for the job.  Once the fire was started,
  it should have totally consumed all the iron flowing out of the cut in
 less
  that 18 from the back of the cut.  I have seen these things work, first
  time in about 1948.  With the 9 blade spinning right at its max rpms,
  close to 15k, it was dropping thru a 1.5 square mount spud that was no
  longer needed for an eyeglass lens grinding machine, with about a 1 hp
  motor spinning it, took 3 or 4 secs to start the fire  just fell thru
 that
  1.25 square stud in the next 10 seconds, making a very clean cut.  This
 is
  a pure crap tool.  Look for one that spins that 14 wheel at least 5.2k
  rpms, and has enough cage around it to safely let it blow up.  This piece
  of tinfoil might stop one exploding blade.  Emphasis on the might.
 
  Cheers, Gene


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Re: [Emc-users] Heads up on TSC's Kawasaki 14 abrasive chop saw.

2014-02-14 Thread andy pugh
On 14 February 2014 20:07, Pete Matos petefro...@gmail.com wrote:
 Kawasaki is just another off branded
 chinese POS as far as I have seen.

I guess they have no connection to the company that makes the
motorcycles or Boeing fuselages then.

Steelwork companies who cut a lot of sections seem to use slow-speed
HSS blades (or plasma)

-- 
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Re: [Emc-users] Heads up on TSC's Kawasaki 14 abrasive chop saw.

2014-02-14 Thread Dave Cole
Gene,

You might want to try and take that saw back to TSC.
I've seen some beat up machines in their clearance aisle that must be 
the result of returns.

Dave

On 2/14/2014 2:11 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
 I just bought one yesterday thought maybe it might be helpful around the
 ranch. Big buck  taxes, cheap IOW.

 Don't waste your money on it, the blade only spins 2800 rpms, and you have
 got to get totally, downright brutal with it to even think about starting
 the fire that makes these things work like a cutting torch,  I managed it
 for about 1/2 going thru a 1x2 bar standing on edge, but the fire was so
 poorly air fed the sparks were bouncing off the garage wall 8 feet away,
 potentially falling into the dust tinderbox behind my 12 chop saw.  So
 reverting to abrasive only cutting, it took me about 20 minutes for one
 cut.  Not at all a tool suitable for the job.  Once the fire was started,
 it should have totally consumed all the iron flowing out of the cut in less
 that 18 from the back of the cut.  I have seen these things work, first
 time in about 1948.  With the 9 blade spinning right at its max rpms,
 close to 15k, it was dropping thru a 1.5 square mount spud that was no
 longer needed for an eyeglass lens grinding machine, with about a 1 hp
 motor spinning it, took 3 or 4 secs to start the fire  just fell thru that
 1.25 square stud in the next 10 seconds, making a very clean cut.  This is
 a pure crap tool.  Look for one that spins that 14 wheel at least 5.2k
 rpms, and has enough cage around it to safely let it blow up.  This piece
 of tinfoil might stop one exploding blade.  Emphasis on the might.

 Cheers, Gene

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Re: [Emc-users] Heads up on TSC's Kawasaki 14 abrasive chop saw.

2014-02-14 Thread Andy Pugh

 
 Don't waste your money on it, the blade only spins 2800 rpms, and you have

Internet reviews are good, but there are some saying that the supplied blade is 
hopeless.  Might be worth trying a different blade. 
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[Emc-users] countersink.py problem

2014-02-14 Thread Gene Heskett
Greetings;

I didn't look to see whose code that is, but I made several passes at 
trying to use it to bore a hole .7 deep in a 1 piece of steel this 
afternoon, and cannot make sense out of what its giving me.

I specced a .250 diameter mill, feedrate of 8, depth increment of .015, a 
stepover of 25%, 2000 rpm, no bolt size but an .850 pocket .700 deep in 
those 2 boxes in the lower left corner.

It gave me a pocket diameter of .650, several times.  So I added the 
missing .2 to the pocket size, (lower left corner of its window) bringing 
that up to 1.05, which in fact gave me code that would have gnawed a 
pocket 1.05 in diameter.

So why do I get the wrong answer when I give it .85?

Thanks.

Cheers, Gene
-- 
There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene

NOTICE: Will pay 100 USD for an HP-4815A defective but
complete probe assembly.


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Re: [Emc-users] Heads up on TSC's Kawasaki 14 abrasive chop saw.

2014-02-14 Thread Gene Heskett
On Friday 14 February 2014 19:49:26 Dave Cole did opine:

 Hi Gene,
 
 I have no knowledge of that particular saw.   I have an old 14 Black
 and Decker chop saw and it has worked well for me for years.
 The trick I found is to get the right abrasive blades for it. Some are
 pure crap.  Typically, the cheap ones are junk.
 Once I figured out which ones ran the best, I bought a bunch of them.
 Since then, I acquired a bandsaw which work well for heavy steel, but
 still, the chop saw is valuable for hardened steel or cutting hydraulic
 hose.
 But there is nothing tidy about a chop saw.   They are brutal, brute
 force, screaming machines.

Done right, they aren't that noisy.  A well dressed wheel, turning within 
5% of its rated max speed, is surprisingly quiet.  Once the fire is going, 
you can hear the rumble of the fire over the saw IF the saw is a decent 
one.  It resembles the rumble of one of those fan-jet k2 heaters but 25 db 
quieter.
 
 Hearing protection is recommended.
 
If I had any hearing left to protect, but the 31 db shooting muffs are in 
the truck  my knee was starting to complain already.

 If I need to use it for more than a simple, short duration cut,  I take
 the saw outside and point it at something non-flammable.

Summertime, not a bad idea, like green grass 10 feet away.
 
 Wearing gloves is also a good idea as the material being cut becomes hot
 and sharp edged..
 
 Dave

Well, a handy pair of vice grips and the snow bank outside the back door 
made short work of that problem. :)



Cheers, Gene
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene

NOTICE: Will pay 100 USD for an HP-4815A defective but
complete probe assembly.


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Re: [Emc-users] Heads up on TSC's Kawasaki 14 abrasive chop saw.

2014-02-14 Thread Alex Newman
This ads yet another confirmation to my long-held opinion (based on personal 
experience) that there's no such thing as a cheap tool. Buy cheap, buy more 
than once and so on. Having said that, I've often acquired expensive tools in 
sales. I love *real* bargains (not the el-cheapo sort, see above).

Cheers,
Alex.

 On 15 Feb 2014, at 10:38 am, Andy Pugh bodge...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 
 
 Don't waste your money on it, the blade only spins 2800 rpms, and you have
 
 Internet reviews are good, but there are some saying that the supplied blade 
 is hopeless.  Might be worth trying a different blade. 
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Re: [Emc-users] Heads up on TSC's Kawasaki 14 abrasive chop saw.

2014-02-14 Thread Gene Heskett
On Friday 14 February 2014 19:59:07 andy pugh did opine:

 On 14 February 2014 20:07, Pete Matos petefro...@gmail.com wrote:
  Kawasaki is just another off branded
  chinese POS as far as I have seen.
 
 I guess they have no connection to the company that makes the
 motorcycles or Boeing fuselages then.
 
 Steelwork companies who cut a lot of sections seem to use slow-speed
 HSS blades (or plasma)

Chuckle, story time with that remark fellows.  My stepfather worked at 
Solar MFG in Des Moines for a while after the war (WW-II) up till '56 or 
so, wound up in the tool  die shop.  Cutting up some titanium one day, he 
broke the last saw blade in the tool crib.  That saw actually worked a lot 
like a modern abrasive chop saw but had semi-hard teeth whose main job was 
to generate friction and carry air at high speed into the cut, with blade 
speeds in the 10,000 fpm region.

Looking around, he spotted a barrel of steel shipping strap about an inch 
wide, grabbed a piece, cut it to the length of the broken blade and welded 
it right on the saw's own built in blade welder.  He finished out the his 
shift, cutting pieces at about 75% of the normal cutting speed, and only 
had to weld up one more blade to finish his shift.  He had to do the same 
thing on Monday, till a carton of regular blades showed up about noonish.  
They cut faster, but only because the teeth carried more air.

Something like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8eRPGHUC58

Only big enough to cut damned near anything.  I believe he said its wheels 
were about 36 in diameter.


Cheers, Gene
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.
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Re: [Emc-users] Heads up on TSC's Kawasaki 14 abrasive chop saw.

2014-02-14 Thread Gene Heskett
On Friday 14 February 2014 20:25:55 Andy Pugh did opine:

  Don't waste your money on it, the blade only spins 2800 rpms, and you
  have
 
 Internet reviews are good, but there are some saying that the supplied
 blade is hopeless.  Might be worth trying a different blade.

No blade is going to work well when its turning half its blowup speed, not 
in that sort of service.  Once you get the fire really started, actual 
blade wear is minimal, its only duty is to carry a fresh supply of oxygen 
to the cutting face.

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Cheers, Gene
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.
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Genes Web page http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene

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Re: [Emc-users] countersink.py problem

2014-02-14 Thread Bruce Layne
Hey Gene,

I don't have a specific answer to your question, but I can say that in 
general, I've had similar mysteries when using the various Python code 
to generate G code.  They're handy little routines, but they seem not 
quite ready for prime time.Thankfully, LinuxCNC does a great job of 
previewing the tool path to catch the gross G code errors.

I believe that some of these bits of Python code generate different 
results depending on the order the input values are supplied on the data 
entry form.  I think they might be calculating intermediate results as 
the data is entered?  Or maybe there is a problem with updating internal 
variables as the form is completed?

I'll often give up and use the faulty G code that it produces as a 
template and do a little math and edit the G code manually to produce 
the  desired tool path.

Most of my jobs are fairly simple and these little Python routines would 
be ideal for me to use.  Even in their current form, they're fairly 
useful.  It's amazing how quickly fairly complex G code programs can be 
created just by stringing together G code snippets from these wizards.  
For me, it'd be quicker than CAD/CAM given that I seldom need complex 
path 3D contour machining.  It's a shame these routines aren't 
bulletproof.  Being open source, if I think they should be improved, 
it's incumbent upon me to improve them, but unfortunately, even though 
I'm a protocol droid and I'm fluent in over six million forms of 
communication, I don't speak Python.

Kudos to whoever made it so opening Python code in LinuxCNC runs the 
code in a window.  That's almost as cool as built-in G code wizards.


Bruce



On 02/14/2014 07:42 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
 Greetings;

 I didn't look to see whose code that is, but I made several passes at
 trying to use it to bore a hole .7 deep in a 1 piece of steel this
 afternoon, and cannot make sense out of what its giving me.

 I specced a .250 diameter mill, feedrate of 8, depth increment of .015, a
 stepover of 25%, 2000 rpm, no bolt size but an .850 pocket .700 deep in
 those 2 boxes in the lower left corner.

 It gave me a pocket diameter of .650, several times.  So I added the
 missing .2 to the pocket size, (lower left corner of its window) bringing
 that up to 1.05, which in fact gave me code that would have gnawed a
 pocket 1.05 in diameter.

 So why do I get the wrong answer when I give it .85?

 Thanks.

 Cheers, Gene


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Re: [Emc-users] countersink.py problem

2014-02-14 Thread Charles Steinkuehler
On 2/14/2014 8:09 PM, Bruce Layne wrote:
 
 I believe that some of these bits of Python code generate different 
 results depending on the order the input values are supplied on the data 
 entry form.  I think they might be calculating intermediate results as 
 the data is entered?  Or maybe there is a problem with updating internal 
 variables as the form is completed?

Not that this is the problem, but I've had a horrible time with Python
and floating point numbers.  Python is always wanting to default to
integers, and frequently truncates intermediate results to integers
causing subtle issues with the resulting output that leaves me
head-scratching for a while.  I think _every_ bit of python code I've
worked with has had this issue at least once...

-- 
Charles Steinkuehler
char...@steinkuehler.net



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Re: [Emc-users] countersink.py problem

2014-02-14 Thread Gene Heskett
On Friday 14 February 2014 22:00:33 Bruce Layne did opine:

 Hey Gene,
 
 I don't have a specific answer to your question, but I can say that in
 general, I've had similar mysteries when using the various Python code
 to generate G code.  They're handy little routines, but they seem not
 quite ready for prime time.Thankfully, LinuxCNC does a great job of
 previewing the tool path to catch the gross G code errors.
 
 I believe that some of these bits of Python code generate different
 results depending on the order the input values are supplied on the data
 entry form.  I think they might be calculating intermediate results as
 the data is entered?  Or maybe there is a problem with updating internal
 variables as the form is completed?
 
 I'll often give up and use the faulty G code that it produces as a
 template and do a little math and edit the G code manually to produce
 the  desired tool path.
 
 Most of my jobs are fairly simple and these little Python routines would
 be ideal for me to use.  Even in their current form, they're fairly
 useful.  It's amazing how quickly fairly complex G code programs can be
 created just by stringing together G code snippets from these wizards.
 For me, it'd be quicker than CAD/CAM given that I seldom need complex
 path 3D contour machining.  It's a shame these routines aren't
 bulletproof.  Being open source, if I think they should be improved,
 it's incumbent upon me to improve them, but unfortunately, even though
 I'm a protocol droid and I'm fluent in over six million forms of
 communication, I don't speak Python.
 
 Kudos to whoever made it so opening Python code in LinuxCNC runs the
 code in a window.  That's almost as cool as built-in G code wizards.
 
 
 Bruce

I considered editing the output with gedit's global replace utility, but 
thats well over 7k LOC.  I'd druther just feed it bogus data and generate 
the correct code.  But you are correct, that size and depth were the last 2 
entries I made, I'll try inverting the order if the weather is fit 
tomorrow. They are threatening us AGAIN!  Coming in from the NW of us this 
time.

If I thought I had  snowballs chance of swapping this for someplace wayyy 
south but still 100' ASL, I be studying real estate adds.  All I'm doing 
this winter so far is eating, gaining weight I don't need, and sitting 
around stiffening up.  Too many miles on this old carcass already.

 On 02/14/2014 07:42 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
  Greetings;
  
  I didn't look to see whose code that is, but I made several passes at
  trying to use it to bore a hole .7 deep in a 1 piece of steel this
  afternoon, and cannot make sense out of what its giving me.
  
  I specced a .250 diameter mill, feedrate of 8, depth increment of
  .015, a stepover of 25%, 2000 rpm, no bolt size but an .850 pocket
  .700 deep in those 2 boxes in the lower left corner.
  
  It gave me a pocket diameter of .650, several times.  So I added the
  missing .2 to the pocket size, (lower left corner of its window)
  bringing that up to 1.05, which in fact gave me code that would have
  gnawed a pocket 1.05 in diameter.
  
  So why do I get the wrong answer when I give it .85?
  
  Thanks.
  
  Cheers, Gene
 
 
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[Emc-users] off sub geography

2014-02-14 Thread jeremy youngs
gene stated
If I thought I had  snowballs chance of swapping this for someplace wayyy
south but still 100' ASL, I be studying real estate adds.  All I'm doing
this winter so far is eating, gaining weight I don't need, and sitting
around stiffening up.  Too many miles on this old carcass already.
 i like south central mo myself . im looking forward to finally getting
back to my 17 acres there. as this 2 yrs helping dad in upstate has really
made me see why i left 20 yrs ago

jeremy youngs




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Re: [Emc-users] off sub geography

2014-02-14 Thread Gene Heskett
On Saturday 15 February 2014 00:29:44 jeremy youngs did opine:

 gene stated
 If I thought I had  snowballs chance of swapping this for someplace
 wayyy south but still 100' ASL, I be studying real estate adds.  All
 I'm doing this winter so far is eating, gaining weight I don't need,
 and sitting around stiffening up.  Too many miles on this old carcass
 already.

 i like south central mo myself . im looking forward to finally
 getting back to my 17 acres there. as this 2 yrs helping dad in upstate
 has really made me see why i left 20 yrs ago
 
 jeremy youngs
 
I've seen that country, but it was 65 years ago.  I hope its still as 
pretty as it was then.

I think our Big John Thornton is someplace in that neck of the woods too.

Cheers, Gene
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.
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Genes Web page http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene

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complete probe assembly.


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Re: [Emc-users] off sub geography

2014-02-14 Thread Jon Elson
On 02/14/2014 11:33 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
 On Saturday 15 February 2014 00:29:44 jeremy youngs did opine:

 i like south central mo myself . im looking forward to finally
 getting back to my 17 acres there. as this 2 yrs helping dad in upstate
 has really made me see why i left 20 yrs ago

 jeremy youngs

 I've seen that country, but it was 65 years ago.  I hope its still as
 pretty as it was then.


My friend has a cabin inside the Ozark National Scenic Riverways
on the Current River (his grandfather built it in 1931).  It is
STILL very beautiful there!  We usually get out there for a week
every summer.  We picked a bad week in 2013, and got 15.6
inches of rain in 5 days.  The river was AMAZING, looked almost
like Niagara falls, compared to the normal little stream that is
the upper Current River.

If you are interested, here's a 4 second clip :
http://pico-systems.com/images/cabin/100_6558.MOV

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] off sub geography

2014-02-14 Thread Gene Heskett
On Saturday 15 February 2014 01:08:56 Jon Elson did opine:

 On 02/14/2014 11:33 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
  On Saturday 15 February 2014 00:29:44 jeremy youngs did opine:
  i like south central mo myself . im looking forward to finally
  getting back to my 17 acres there. as this 2 yrs helping dad in
  upstate has really made me see why i left 20 yrs ago
  
  jeremy youngs
  
  I've seen that country, but it was 65 years ago.  I hope its still as
  pretty as it was then.
 
 My friend has a cabin inside the Ozark National Scenic Riverways
 on the Current River (his grandfather built it in 1931).  It is
 STILL very beautiful there!  We usually get out there for a week
 every summer.  We picked a bad week in 2013, and got 15.6
 inches of rain in 5 days.  The river was AMAZING, looked almost
 like Niagara falls, compared to the normal little stream that is
 the upper Current River.
 
 If you are interested, here's a 4 second clip :
 http://pico-systems.com/images/cabin/100_6558.MOV
 
 Jon

All I got was audio, probably my fault, but that river was sure letting you 
know it was there!
 
 
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Cheers, Gene
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene

NOTICE: Will pay 100 USD for an HP-4815A defective but
complete probe assembly.


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