subject:"\[Emc\-users\] Lathe"

On Tuesday 27 July 2021 16:10:40 Earl Weaver wrote:

> On 7/27/2021 1:43 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > Actually, the torque goes up as the speed goes down, because they
> > run at the speed determined by the counter emf generated by varying
> > the current in the field winding, and the higher current actually
> > causes it to slow down, but at the same time, the torque rises
> > because the field magnets get stronger, generating the balancing
> > back emf at a lower armature speed. Unfortunately for those motors,
> > the non-grain oriented steel used in those motors is saturated
> > magnetically, at around 1/4 of the magnetic field we can make with
> > todays magnetic materiel. Not very efficient and it shows in the
> > power bill to run it.
> >
> > My bet is that since this is a very old tech, the power supply will
> > have both selenium rectifiers and wet electrolyte filter capacitors,
> > and one, or the other or both have reached their retirement age,
> > like me a long time back, and like me, are no longer working very
> > well.
> >
> > Where are your digs located Earl? I am in north central WV.
> >
> >> **Earl Weaver
> >> Email: weaverst...@frontier.com 
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Emc-users mailing list
> >> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
>
> Gene,
> Yes, this is an approx. 1984 machine.

That new? I would have guessed 1934, the year I was born. That means of 
making a variable speed motor is ancient tech because its not very 
efficient. An AC motor and a vfd should cut the energy bill in half 
compared to that.

> I suspect the drive has seen it's better days. The lathe comes out of
> a tech school, hasn't been used much. Probably sat unused for "years?"
> I converted it from an old Fanuc controller to LinuxCNC.
> Is there a good option for replacing the DC Drive and using the
> existing DC Motor, or am I better off changing to AC VFD?

I think I'd put a 3 phase 5 to 7 horse or so motor in it, geared down by 
about 4/1, with a 7.5 horse vfd, and let the vfd do the speed control. 
I'm doing that twice here from linuxcnc. You can take that 5 or 7 horse 
to at least 200 hz, which will run it a bit more than 3x its normal 
speed. I have a smaller sheldon, an 11x54, that came original with a 3/4 
horse single phase and a batch of shiftable belts. I put a 50 yo 1 horse 
in it after putting fresh bearings into the pair of them I got for a 50 
dollar bill aat a local recyclers yard. Driven from a 250 volt powered 
single phase line, I've shifted it up to 2nd gear once. I can do from 
about 20 rpm to around 600  without shifting gears. And 600 is fast 
enough to start a fire with the flying swarf. But you will have to learn 
how to program the vfd, they are horribly badly tuned straight OOTB.

One of the secrets there is I don't self disable the vfd until its down 
to 5HZ, and its programmed to not exceed the motors nameplate FLA. And 
while that slow kills the effectiveness of its cooling fan, I can run it 
at the limit for half an hour and still lay my hand on the motor w/o 
burning it.

My Sheldon, with that 1 horse motor has had the vfd tweaked, and I can 
watch the overshoot in turns with an 8" 4 jaw mounted so an m4 reversal 
turns it around, measuring the turn from the time motion issues the 
command while its running at 100 revs fwd, to the encoder issuing the 
first reverse motion, and its rarely over .25 turns, usually about .235.

At 500 revs its several full turns, but I don't tap that fast. 

> I'm located up here in central Wisconsin, moved here in 2008 from
> Pennsylvania.
> I've been through West Virginia already. Mountainous? I still like the
> mountains out east!

Went thru the Dells, 70 years ago. Rode the tour in a surplus duck. Nice 
trip.

But I came here in '84, the CBS affiliate needed a Chief Engineer, so I 
finished out my working time there, retiring in the middle of 2002. So 
in addition to the 1st phone, I am also a CET, and those are a lot 
rarer.

We here in WV generally price level dirt by the cost of the dozer 
operator plus the gallons of #2 he burnt making it level. Very little 
naturally level land here.

But first, lets measure the range of this motors FIELD currant so we can 
maybe figure out why its missbehaving.

> **Earl Weaver
> Email: weaverst...@frontier.com 
>
Take care Earl.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Lathe Spindle Drive Questions

On Tue, 27 Jul 2021 at 21:13, Earl Weaver  wrote:

> Yes, this is an approx. 1984 machine.

It won't have Selenium rectifiers then.

Though I concur that the bus capacitors are very unlikely to be
anywhere near spec by now.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] Lathe Spindle Drive Questions

2021-07-27 Thread Scott Harwell via Emc-users

 Earl,
I haven't worked anything as small as 5hp but most Vs drives are close. This is 
by memory, but you should not see any field weakening until you hit motor base 
speed. The larger drives always had a shunt on the armature  leads to measure 
current. The tach runs through a summing junction with reference for speed 
regulation. Always remember that total field loss at speed can cause terrible 
things.

Scott

On Tuesday, July 27, 2021, 3:12:51 PM CDT, Earl Weaver 
 wrote:  
 
 
On 7/27/2021 1:43 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> Actually, the torque goes up as the speed goes down, because they run at
> the speed determined by the counter emf generated by varying the current
> in the field winding, and the higher current actually causes it to slow
> down, but at the same time, the torque rises because the field magnets
> get stronger, generating the balancing back emf at a lower armature
> speed. Unfortunately for those motors, the non-grain oriented steel used
> in those motors is saturated magnetically, at around 1/4 of the magnetic
> field we can make with todays magnetic materiel. Not very efficient and
> it shows in the power bill to run it.
>
> My bet is that since this is a very old tech, the power supply will have
> both selenium rectifiers and wet electrolyte filter capacitors, and one,
> or the other or both have reached their retirement age, like me a long
> time back, and like me, are no longer working very well.
>
> Where are your digs located Earl? I am in north central WV.
>
>> **Earl Weaver
>> Email: weaverst...@frontier.com 
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Emc-users mailing list
>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
Gene,
Yes, this is an approx. 1984 machine.
I suspect the drive has seen it's better days. The lathe comes out of a 
tech school, hasn't been used much. Probably sat unused for "years?"
I converted it from an old Fanuc controller to LinuxCNC.
Is there a good option for replacing the DC Drive and using the existing 
DC Motor, or am I better off changing to AC VFD?
I'm located up here in central Wisconsin, moved here in 2008 from 
Pennsylvania.
I've been through West Virginia already. Mountainous? I still like the 
mountains out east!

**Earl Weaver
Email: weaverst...@frontier.com 


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Re: [Emc-users] Lathe Spindle Drive Questions




On 7/27/2021 1:43 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:

Actually, the torque goes up as the speed goes down, because they run at
the speed determined by the counter emf generated by varying the current
in the field winding, and the higher current actually causes it to slow
down, but at the same time, the torque rises because the field magnets
get stronger, generating the balancing back emf at a lower armature
speed. Unfortunately for those motors, the non-grain oriented steel used
in those motors is saturated magnetically, at around 1/4 of the magnetic
field we can make with todays magnetic materiel. Not very efficient and
it shows in the power bill to run it.

My bet is that since this is a very old tech, the power supply will have
both selenium rectifiers and wet electrolyte filter capacitors, and one,
or the other or both have reached their retirement age, like me a long
time back, and like me, are no longer working very well.

Where are your digs located Earl? I am in north central WV.


**Earl Weaver
Email: weaverst...@frontier.com 


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Cheers, Gene Heskett

Gene,
Yes, this is an approx. 1984 machine.
I suspect the drive has seen it's better days. The lathe comes out of a 
tech school, hasn't been used much. Probably sat unused for "years?"

I converted it from an old Fanuc controller to LinuxCNC.
Is there a good option for replacing the DC Drive and using the existing 
DC Motor, or am I better off changing to AC VFD?
I'm located up here in central Wisconsin, moved here in 2008 from 
Pennsylvania.
I've been through West Virginia already. Mountainous? I still like the 
mountains out east!


**Earl Weaver
Email: weaverst...@frontier.com 


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Re: [Emc-users] Lathe Spindle Drive Questions

On Tuesday 27 July 2021 14:43:49 Earl Weaver wrote:

> Ok, Here is my attempt at taking amp readings.
> I attached my AC Clamp Meter to lines A1 and A2 going from drive to
> motor.

But you are trying to measure a poorly filtered DC at that point and a 
clamp on meter ignores the DC component. Or did you break the circuit, 
and connect the leads of that meter to the ends of the break?
 
> Running no load:  4.9 
> Original Pot Setting: A1=41.9 & A2= 42.6
> Full Pot Setting:  A1= 47.3 & A2= 51.5
> At full Pot Setting it trips the breaker on the drive when it stalls.

This could be a clue. if you can measure the DC current going thru the 
field winding, the one labeled 3 amps, and finding a place on the speed 
pot where the current drops to almost nothing, you just found your 
problem. I have my doubts, but as a lng term CET, I've learned that 
anything is possible.

> On 7/27/2021 1:06 PM, Earl Weaver wrote:
> > On 7/27/2021 12:13 PM, andy pugh wrote:
> >> I skimmed the drive manual looking for any info on tuning the
> >> velocity loop, but could ne see anything.
> >> However: Are you sure that your tachometer is set up right? (I
> >> think it probably is or speed would be way off)
> >> And is the current limit pot set to suit your actual motor?
> >
> > The manual that I linked is not an exact match to my drive. I
> > searched but did not find an exact match , but this one is close.
> > Yes, I believe the tach is set up right. I can get the speed control
> > to work good. It's just the power at low RPM is the biggest problem.
> > Your description from an earlier post describes it perfectly.
> > "I would expect a speed-controlled loop spindle to feel springy. As
> > you move the chuck faster than commanded speed the drive will reduce
> > the current to try to slow the spindle (maybe even reversing in to
> > braking)
> > Then as you wobble it back the other way it will take some time to
> > wind up the other way."
> > I will check the current limit pots to see if that is limiting the
> > torque.
> >
> > **Earl Weaver
> > Email: weaverst...@frontier.com 
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
> ___
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> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Lathe Spindle Drive Questions

2021-07-27 Thread Chris Albertson

So the DC motor is seeing roughly 50 amps at stall?What is the motor
rated at?  Is there a maximum current stamped on the data plate?

What is A1 and A2?   Are these the supply and ground return?  If so how
could they not be equal?   Maybe your meter is only good to plus or minus
10%

It would also be good to look at PWM duty cycle vs load on the spindle. So
you can understand what the controller it doing.  It is best to real a real
scope or logic analyzer but if you don't have that the halscope is likely
good enough

On Tue, Jul 27, 2021 at 11:46 AM Earl Weaver 
wrote:

>
> Ok, Here is my attempt at taking amp readings.
> I attached my AC Clamp Meter to lines A1 and A2 going from drive to motor.
> Running no load:  4.9
> Original Pot Setting: A1=41.9 & A2= 42.6
> Full Pot Setting:  A1= 47.3 & A2= 51.5
> At full Pot Setting it trips the breaker on the drive when it stalls.
>
> On 7/27/2021 1:06 PM, Earl Weaver wrote:
> >
> > On 7/27/2021 12:13 PM, andy pugh wrote:
> >> I skimmed the drive manual looking for any info on tuning the velocity
> >> loop, but could ne see anything.
> >> However: Are you sure that your tachometer is set up right? (I think
> >> it probably is or speed would be way off)
> >> And is the current limit pot set to suit your actual motor?
> >>
> > The manual that I linked is not an exact match to my drive. I searched
> > but did not find an exact match , but this one is close.
> > Yes, I believe the tach is set up right. I can get the speed control
> > to work good. It's just the power at low RPM is the biggest problem.
> > Your description from an earlier post describes it perfectly.
> > "I would expect a speed-controlled loop spindle to feel springy. As you
> > move the chuck faster than commanded speed the drive will reduce the
> > current to try to slow the spindle (maybe even reversing in to
> > braking)
> > Then as you wobble it back the other way it will take some time to
> > wind up the other way."
> > I will check the current limit pots to see if that is limiting the
> > torque.
> >
> > **Earl Weaver
> > Email: weaverst...@frontier.com 
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
>
> ___
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>


-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] Lathe Spindle Drive Questions

On Tuesday 27 July 2021 11:48:29 Earl Weaver wrote:

> My 8" chuck has a max 2500 RPM, I would think 1500 RPM would be
> sufficient for my use.
> The motor has 2 line wires and 2 shunt field wires. plus tachometer
> feedback wires.
>
> On 7/27/2021 10:02 AM, andy pugh wrote:
> > On Tue, 27 Jul 2021 at 14:10, Earl Weaver  
wrote:
> >> Would there be a benefit for me to change the motor pulley to a
> >> smaller size?
> >
> > I think that would depend on your planned use.
> >
> > My lathe can do 3000rpm but the macros I use with constant surface
> > speed top out at 1500rpm and I very, very, rarely find that too
> > slow. So, I suspect that, unless you do a lot of very tiny parts,
> > gearing for 1500rpm would suit you better if you regularly make 8"
> > parts.
> >
> > My lathe, at 3000rpm, is unusually fast for an 8" lathe.
> >
> > CNC and carbide has changed the rules a bit, but if you go back to
> > the 70s a 10" lathe would tend to top out at 1500 and a 15" at 800
> > rpm.
> >
> > It seems that your spindle motor is a wound-field motor, I don't
> > know very much about those, but I think that they have rather lower
> > low-speed torque than a permanent magnet motor.
> > (Though this might depend on whether the motor is wired shunt or
> > series) But they are typically used where a wider range of operating
> > speeds than can be used with an induction motor is required.
>
Actually, the torque goes up as the speed goes down, because they run at 
the speed determined by the counter emf generated by varying the current 
in the field winding, and the higher current actually causes it to slow 
down, but at the same time, the torque rises because the field magnets 
get stronger, generating the balancing back emf at a lower armature 
speed. Unfortunately for those motors, the non-grain oriented steel used 
in those motors is saturated magnetically, at around 1/4 of the magnetic 
field we can make with todays magnetic materiel. Not very efficient and 
it shows in the power bill to run it. 

My bet is that since this is a very old tech, the power supply will have 
both selenium rectifiers and wet electrolyte filter capacitors, and one, 
or the other or both have reached their retirement age, like me a long 
time back, and like me, are no longer working very well.

Where are your digs located Earl? I am in north central WV.

> **Earl Weaver
> Email: weaverst...@frontier.com 
>
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Lathe Spindle Drive Questions



Ok, Here is my attempt at taking amp readings.
I attached my AC Clamp Meter to lines A1 and A2 going from drive to motor.
Running no load:  4.9
Original Pot Setting: A1=41.9 & A2= 42.6
Full Pot Setting:  A1= 47.3 & A2= 51.5
At full Pot Setting it trips the breaker on the drive when it stalls.

On 7/27/2021 1:06 PM, Earl Weaver wrote:


On 7/27/2021 12:13 PM, andy pugh wrote:

I skimmed the drive manual looking for any info on tuning the velocity
loop, but could ne see anything.
However: Are you sure that your tachometer is set up right? (I think
it probably is or speed would be way off)
And is the current limit pot set to suit your actual motor?

The manual that I linked is not an exact match to my drive. I searched 
but did not find an exact match , but this one is close.
Yes, I believe the tach is set up right. I can get the speed control 
to work good. It's just the power at low RPM is the biggest problem.

Your description from an earlier post describes it perfectly.
"I would expect a speed-controlled loop spindle to feel springy. As you
move the chuck faster than commanded speed the drive will reduce the
current to try to slow the spindle (maybe even reversing in to
braking)
Then as you wobble it back the other way it will take some time to
wind up the other way."
I will check the current limit pots to see if that is limiting the 
torque.


**Earl Weaver
Email: weaverst...@frontier.com 


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Re: [Emc-users] Lathe Spindle Drive Questions




On 7/27/2021 12:13 PM, andy pugh wrote:

I skimmed the drive manual looking for any info on tuning the velocity
loop, but could ne see anything.
However: Are you sure that your tachometer is set up right? (I think
it probably is or speed would be way off)
And is the current limit pot set to suit your actual motor?

The manual that I linked is not an exact match to my drive. I searched 
but did not find an exact match , but this one is close.
Yes, I believe the tach is set up right. I can get the speed control to 
work good. It's just the power at low RPM is the biggest problem.

Your description from an earlier post describes it perfectly.
"I would expect a speed-controlled loop spindle to feel springy. As you
move the chuck faster than commanded speed the drive will reduce the
current to try to slow the spindle (maybe even reversing in to
braking)
Then as you wobble it back the other way it will take some time to
wind up the other way."
I will check the current limit pots to see if that is limiting the torque.

**Earl Weaver
Email: weaverst...@frontier.com 


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Re: [Emc-users] Lathe Spindle Drive Questions

On Tue, 27 Jul 2021 at 14:10, Earl Weaver  wrote:
>
> Here's a link to motor nameplate, drive info etc.
> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/8k6ss8tfbfl4muj/AACFFFxQLOsuvu04vPmuK21Ta?dl=0

I skimmed the drive manual looking for any info on tuning the velocity
loop, but could ne see anything.
However: Are you sure that your tachometer is set up right? (I think
it probably is or speed would be way off)
And is the current limit pot set to suit your actual motor?

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912

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Re: [Emc-users] Lathe Spindle Drive Questions

On Tuesday 27 July 2021 08:16:40 andy pugh wrote:

> On Tue, 27 Jul 2021 at 12:41, Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> > > The only way to make the spindle feel "stiff" in your test would
> > > be to close the position loop with the encoder, but then how do
> > > you drive it as a spindle with a speed command?
> >
> > With a honking big power supply, and a high resolution encoder.
> > I have 2 machines with 1hp rated motors, both claiming to be 90 volt
>
> You seem to have misunderstood my point.
>
> Is your spindle stiff against "wiggling" when running at low speed
> under no load? My guess would be that it is not.
>
> And I also doubt that you are running it in closed-loop position
> control, as a spindle.

Please define the difference. At creep speeds it sure acts like its under 
position control. And yes, its just as stiff at 20 revs as it is at 
2700. That power is available at any speed when the Pgain is 20 or more. 
The ridiculous encoder resolution sees to that. One of the smarter moves 
I ever made was moving the encoder to an shop made extension stud 
sticking out of the rear of the motor. Quantization noise is inaudible 
now.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Lathe Spindle Drive Questions

My 8" chuck has a max 2500 RPM, I would think 1500 RPM would be 
sufficient for my use.
The motor has 2 line wires and 2 shunt field wires. plus tachometer 
feedback wires.


On 7/27/2021 10:02 AM, andy pugh wrote:

On Tue, 27 Jul 2021 at 14:10, Earl Weaver  wrote:


Would there be a benefit for me to change the motor pulley to a smaller
size?

I think that would depend on your planned use.

My lathe can do 3000rpm but the macros I use with constant surface
speed top out at 1500rpm and I very, very, rarely find that too slow.
So, I suspect that, unless you do a lot of very tiny parts, gearing
for 1500rpm would suit you better if you regularly make 8" parts.

My lathe, at 3000rpm, is unusually fast for an 8" lathe.

CNC and carbide has changed the rules a bit, but if you go back to the
70s a 10" lathe would tend to top out at 1500 and a 15" at 800 rpm.

It seems that your spindle motor is a wound-field motor, I don't know
very much about those, but I think that they have rather lower
low-speed torque than a permanent magnet motor.
(Though this might depend on whether the motor is wired shunt or series)
But they are typically used where a wider range of operating speeds
than can be used with an induction motor is required.



**Earl Weaver
Email: weaverst...@frontier.com 


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Re: [Emc-users] Lathe Spindle Drive Questions

On Tue, 27 Jul 2021 at 14:10, Earl Weaver  wrote:

> Would there be a benefit for me to change the motor pulley to a smaller
> size?

I think that would depend on your planned use.

My lathe can do 3000rpm but the macros I use with constant surface
speed top out at 1500rpm and I very, very, rarely find that too slow.
So, I suspect that, unless you do a lot of very tiny parts, gearing
for 1500rpm would suit you better if you regularly make 8" parts.

My lathe, at 3000rpm, is unusually fast for an 8" lathe.

CNC and carbide has changed the rules a bit, but if you go back to the
70s a 10" lathe would tend to top out at 1500 and a 15" at 800 rpm.

It seems that your spindle motor is a wound-field motor, I don't know
very much about those, but I think that they have rather lower
low-speed torque than a permanent magnet motor.
(Though this might depend on whether the motor is wired shunt or series)
But they are typically used where a wider range of operating speeds
than can be used with an induction motor is required.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912

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Re: [Emc-users] Lathe Spindle Drive Questions


Here's a link to motor nameplate, drive info etc.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/8k6ss8tfbfl4muj/AACFFFxQLOsuvu04vPmuK21Ta?dl=0

Would there be a benefit for me to change the motor pulley to a smaller 
size?


On 7/26/2021 8:04 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:

On Monday 26 July 2021 18:11:45 Earl Weaver wrote:


Hi,
I have a lathe spindle with 8 in. chuck that is run with a 5HP
Reliance DC Motor and Reliance DC Drive.
I just cannot get much power out of it at low RPM. Was trying to turn
8in OD steel, at approx. 200 -250 RPM with .005 in. cut. It didn't
work, it just stalled.
When I run it at low RPM the chuck rotation is movable, not firm.
I can take a hold of the chuck and hold it and move it back and forth
as it rotates.
It also is more noisy at low RPM.


All of the above and below description, would seem to fit where the DC
supply is duff. Do  you have ny docs on it, and test gear like a scope
and dvm?


This lathe is a Linuxcnc retrofit with J Elson's  Universal PWM
Controller and DAC Spindle control.
The DC drive has tachometer feedback from the motor.
I have tried numerous times to adjust, tune the drive, without
success. I also tried closed loop control from the spindle encoder
within LCNC, also no success.

So here come the questions:
Should I keep trying to get this DC Drive working or would it be
better to switch to  AC Variable Frequency Drive?
If I would switch to AC VFD would 5HP AC Motor  be sufficient size for
existing 1:1 ratio double v belt to drive 8" spindle chuck?
What torque at low RPM can I expect for this 5HP DC motor? am I
expecting to much from it?
Would there be a better drive option for the existing DC motor?
Any recommendations?


Can you copy the motors nameplate data to us? And do you have a dvm with
an amps range that includes the amperage listed on the nameplate as FLA?
That stands for "Full Load Amps" but many DC motors can be pushed harder
than that, up to twice that if its starting a heavy load as it will drop
a lot as it reaches the requested speed in a second or so.


Thanks,


Cheers, Gene Heskett


**Earl Weaver
Email: weaverst...@frontier.com 


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Re: [Emc-users] Lathe Spindle Drive Questions

On Tue, 27 Jul 2021 at 12:41, Gene Heskett  wrote:

> > The only way to make the spindle feel "stiff" in your test would be to
> > close the position loop with the encoder, but then how do you drive it
> > as a spindle with a speed command?
>
> With a honking big power supply, and a high resolution encoder.
> I have 2 machines with 1hp rated motors, both claiming to be 90 volt

You seem to have misunderstood my point.

Is your spindle stiff against "wiggling" when running at low speed
under no load? My guess would be that it is not.

And I also doubt that you are running it in closed-loop position
control, as a spindle.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912

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Re: [Emc-users] Lathe Spindle Drive Questions

On Tuesday 27 July 2021 05:13:28 andy pugh wrote:

> On Mon, 26 Jul 2021 at 23:55, Earl Weaver  
wrote:
> > I have a lathe spindle with 8 in. chuck that is run with a 5HP
> > Reliance DC Motor and Reliance DC Drive.
>
> What kind of DC motor is this? Is it a permanent-magnet servo motor?
>
> Typically DC motors perform better at lower speeds than an AC
> induction motor, so I don't think that swapping to a motor/VFD
> combination will help.
>
> If the motor is running closed-loop speed control from the tachometer
> then, as suggested, you should test whether full rated current is
> being applied when the lathe is cutting at the limit.
>
> I would expect a speed-controlled loop spindle to feel springy. As you
> move the chuck faster than commanded speed the drive will reduce the
> current to try to slow the spindle (maybe even reversing in to
> braking)
> Then as you wobble it back the other way it will take some time to
> wind up the other way.
>
> The only way to make the spindle feel "stiff" in your test would be to
> close the position loop with the encoder, but then how do you drive it
> as a spindle with a speed command?

With a honking big power supply, and a high resolution encoder.
I have 2 machines with 1hp rated motors, both claiming to be 90 volt 
motors with an FLA rating of 9.7 amps. Both are powered by oversized 
power supply's outputing around 127 volts at nearly 20 amps.
One has a very hi res encoder with a scale for 1 rev of a  bit over 7000 
in hi gear,and a bit over 14,000 in low gear. That one has a Pgain of 
20+ in its pid. Control isn't just "stiff", the only way I know when I 
am hitting the limit of about 17 amps into the motor while rigid 
tapping, is by listening carefully for the iron in the motor to chirp 
whn it runs into the limit set in a pwm-servo amp that Jon Elson makes. 
Up to that point, the tach does NOT sag because of the load.

However, the OP's motor is severely disadvantaged by the 1/1 drive if it 
is getting the nameplate FLA, but I'd be checking the PSU. Something is 
definitely fubar. The meter readings I asked for but haven't yet seen 
would be a huge aid at pointing the finger in the right direction.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Lathe Spindle Drive Questions

On Tue, 27 Jul 2021 at 00:13, Sam Sokolik wrote:
>
> Is there a reduction? What is the rated rpm?

I have a cunning plan for a simple electronically-controlled 2-speed
drive for this sort of application.

The idea is to use both a one-way clutch/bearing and a vehicle
air-conditioning clutch.
Both are relatively cheap:
https://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/p152523/CSK20PP-20mm-Sprag-Clutch-One-Way-Bearing-with-Internal-&-External-Keyways-20x47x14mm/product_info.html
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/264754327786
The AC clutch includes bearings and a poly-V pulley.

The idea is to have two separate pulley ratios. There are other
possible arrangements, but one way is with the AC clutch mounted to
the motor flange, and then a smaller pulley mounted outboard of that
also on the motor shaft on the over-running clutch.
When the clutch is engaged the drive is 1:1 (or similar) via the
poly-vee with the sprag clutch overrunning. When the AC clutch is
disengaged the smaller pulley on the motor takes up the drive.

A drawback of this simple arrangement with one active clutch is that
it only works in one direction. (with the AC clutch closed in the
revere direction the sprag does not over-run, and with it open nothing
drives at all) There are other possible arrangements of which is
high-ratio and which is low, but I think that they all have the same
problem. A manual lock-out for rigid-tapping might be an option. I
actually have had very little reason to run my own lathe in reverse.

Fitting two AC clutches might be an option, one on the motor and one
on the headstock. Or both back-to-back on the motor shaft with an
extra mounting face for the second coil.

--
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912

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Re: [Emc-users] Lathe Spindle Drive Questions

On Mon, 26 Jul 2021 at 23:55, Earl Weaver  wrote:

> I have a lathe spindle with 8 in. chuck that is run with a 5HP Reliance
> DC Motor and Reliance DC Drive.

What kind of DC motor is this? Is it a permanent-magnet servo motor?

Typically DC motors perform better at lower speeds than an AC
induction motor, so I don't think that swapping to a motor/VFD
combination will help.

If the motor is running closed-loop speed control from the tachometer
then, as suggested, you should test whether full rated current is
being applied when the lathe is cutting at the limit.

I would expect a speed-controlled loop spindle to feel springy. As you
move the chuck faster than commanded speed the drive will reduce the
current to try to slow the spindle (maybe even reversing in to
braking)
Then as you wobble it back the other way it will take some time to
wind up the other way.

The only way to make the spindle feel "stiff" in your test would be to
close the position loop with the encoder, but then how do you drive it
as a spindle with a speed command?

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912

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Re: [Emc-users] Lathe Spindle Drive Questions

2021-07-27 Thread Rob C

a motor is only rated at 5hp at its rated rpm.  5hp at 2500rpm, hence
it provides around 10.5 ft lb of torque

power = 2 X pi X N X T / 60

(sorry I think in metric to have to convert back and forth)

10.5. ft lb at 200 rpm is around 0.4 HP.

an AC motor (or DC motor, not servo / stepper) should not be run at very
low rpms, I believe the guidance is about 30% of its normal rated rpm,
given you need to still cool the windings. (search Google and do some
reading)

so at 2500rpm rated speed, you should not really go below 750rpm (you are
trying to run at 8 to 10%!)

a DC motor also is voltage proportional rated I am guessing that its
rated at 220V DC so at 200 rpm it will be running at about 17.6V.

if you switch to an AC drive with a VFD then your problem on minimum rpm
will be similar (have a search on Google about vfds and minimum rpm).

for full speed control use a servo (as I do) that will give you
full and precision control. again you are limited by the math of Power
= 2 x pi x N X T / 60

On Mon, 26 Jul 2021, 23:55 Earl Weaver,  wrote:

> Hi,
> I have a lathe spindle with 8 in. chuck that is run with a 5HP Reliance
> DC Motor and Reliance DC Drive.
> I just cannot get much power out of it at low RPM. Was trying to turn
> 8in OD steel, at approx. 200 -250 RPM with .005 in. cut. It didn't work,
> it just stalled.
> When I run it at low RPM the chuck rotation is movable, not firm.
> I can take a hold of the chuck and hold it and move it back and forth as
> it rotates.
> It also is more noisy at low RPM.
>
> This lathe is a Linuxcnc retrofit with J Elson's  Universal PWM
> Controller and DAC Spindle control.
> The DC drive has tachometer feedback from the motor.
> I have tried numerous times to adjust, tune the drive, without success.
> I also tried closed loop control from the spindle encoder within LCNC,
> also no success.
>
> So here come the questions:
> Should I keep trying to get this DC Drive working or would it be better
> to switch to  AC Variable Frequency Drive?
> If I would switch to AC VFD would 5HP AC Motor  be sufficient size for
> existing 1:1 ratio double v belt to drive 8" spindle chuck?
> What torque at low RPM can I expect for this 5HP DC motor? am I
> expecting to much from it?
> Would there be a better drive option for the existing DC motor?
> Any recommendations?
>
> Thanks,
> --
> Earl Weaver
> Email: weaverst...@frontier.com 
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Lathe Spindle Drive Questions

2021-07-26 Thread Gene Heskett

On Monday 26 July 2021 18:11:45 Earl Weaver wrote:

> Hi,
> I have a lathe spindle with 8 in. chuck that is run with a 5HP
> Reliance DC Motor and Reliance DC Drive.
> I just cannot get much power out of it at low RPM. Was trying to turn
> 8in OD steel, at approx. 200 -250 RPM with .005 in. cut. It didn't
> work, it just stalled.
> When I run it at low RPM the chuck rotation is movable, not firm.
> I can take a hold of the chuck and hold it and move it back and forth
> as it rotates.
> It also is more noisy at low RPM.
>
All of the above and below description, would seem to fit where the DC 
supply is duff. Do  you have ny docs on it, and test gear like a scope 
and dvm?

> This lathe is a Linuxcnc retrofit with J Elson's  Universal PWM
> Controller and DAC Spindle control.
> The DC drive has tachometer feedback from the motor.
> I have tried numerous times to adjust, tune the drive, without
> success. I also tried closed loop control from the spindle encoder
> within LCNC, also no success.
>
> So here come the questions:
> Should I keep trying to get this DC Drive working or would it be
> better to switch to  AC Variable Frequency Drive?
> If I would switch to AC VFD would 5HP AC Motor  be sufficient size for
> existing 1:1 ratio double v belt to drive 8" spindle chuck?
> What torque at low RPM can I expect for this 5HP DC motor? am I
> expecting to much from it?
> Would there be a better drive option for the existing DC motor?
> Any recommendations?
>
Can you copy the motors nameplate data to us? And do you have a dvm with 
an amps range that includes the amperage listed on the nameplate as FLA?
That stands for "Full Load Amps" but many DC motors can be pushed harder 
than that, up to twice that if its starting a heavy load as it will drop 
a lot as it reaches the requested speed in a second or so.

> Thanks,


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Lathe Spindle Drive Questions

2021-07-26 Thread Chris Albertson

A closed-loop DC motor should work fine if your power supply is beefy
enough, the encoder has enough resolution to work at low speeds, and the
PID constants are stunned correctly.

A DC motor running open loop likely would slow or stall when a load is
applied.

It would be instructive to measure the DC current through the motor when it
slows and stalls.  This should be the motor's max-rated current, and the
motor should be generating its full rated stall torque.

On Mon, Jul 26, 2021 at 3:55 PM Earl Weaver 
wrote:

> Hi,
> I have a lathe spindle with 8 in. chuck that is run with a 5HP Reliance
> DC Motor and Reliance DC Drive.
> I just cannot get much power out of it at low RPM. Was trying to turn
> 8in OD steel, at approx. 200 -250 RPM with .005 in. cut. It didn't work,
> it just stalled.
> When I run it at low RPM the chuck rotation is movable, not firm.
> I can take a hold of the chuck and hold it and move it back and forth as
> it rotates.
> It also is more noisy at low RPM.
>
> This lathe is a Linuxcnc retrofit with J Elson's  Universal PWM
> Controller and DAC Spindle control.
> The DC drive has tachometer feedback from the motor.
> I have tried numerous times to adjust, tune the drive, without success.
> I also tried closed loop control from the spindle encoder within LCNC,
> also no success.
>
> So here come the questions:
> Should I keep trying to get this DC Drive working or would it be better
> to switch to  AC Variable Frequency Drive?
> If I would switch to AC VFD would 5HP AC Motor  be sufficient size for
> existing 1:1 ratio double v belt to drive 8" spindle chuck?
> What torque at low RPM can I expect for this 5HP DC motor? am I
> expecting to much from it?
> Would there be a better drive option for the existing DC motor?
> Any recommendations?
>
> Thanks,
> --
> Earl Weaver
> Email: weaverst...@frontier.com 
>
>
> ___
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>


-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] Lathe Spindle Drive Questions

2021-07-26 Thread Earl Weaver


Rated RPM 2500, 1:1 ratio double v belt to drive 8" spindle chuck

On 7/26/2021 6:09 PM, Sam Sokolik wrote:

Is there a reduction?  What is the rated rpm?

On Mon, Jul 26, 2021, 6:03 PM andrew beck  wrote:


  I would suggest a closed loop ac Vfd drive with encoder.  They are
awesome.

I normally. Buy schiender altivar 71 drives cheap second hand.

But most brands have them.

Second option is a open loop vector control Vfd.  They are pretty good.



On Tue, Jul 27, 2021, 10:55 AM Earl Weaver 
wrote:


Hi,
I have a lathe spindle with 8 in. chuck that is run with a 5HP Reliance
DC Motor and Reliance DC Drive.
I just cannot get much power out of it at low RPM. Was trying to turn
8in OD steel, at approx. 200 -250 RPM with .005 in. cut. It didn't work,
it just stalled.
When I run it at low RPM the chuck rotation is movable, not firm.
I can take a hold of the chuck and hold it and move it back and forth as
it rotates.
It also is more noisy at low RPM.

This lathe is a Linuxcnc retrofit with J Elson's  Universal PWM
Controller and DAC Spindle control.
The DC drive has tachometer feedback from the motor.
I have tried numerous times to adjust, tune the drive, without success.
I also tried closed loop control from the spindle encoder within LCNC,
also no success.

So here come the questions:
Should I keep trying to get this DC Drive working or would it be better
to switch to  AC Variable Frequency Drive?
If I would switch to AC VFD would 5HP AC Motor  be sufficient size for
existing 1:1 ratio double v belt to drive 8" spindle chuck?
What torque at low RPM can I expect for this 5HP DC motor? am I
expecting to much from it?
Would there be a better drive option for the existing DC motor?
Any recommendations?

Thanks,
--
Earl Weaver
Email: weaverst...@frontier.com 


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Re: [Emc-users] Lathe Spindle Drive Questions

2021-07-26 Thread Sam Sokolik

Is there a reduction?  What is the rated rpm?

On Mon, Jul 26, 2021, 6:03 PM andrew beck  wrote:

>  I would suggest a closed loop ac Vfd drive with encoder.  They are
> awesome.
>
> I normally. Buy schiender altivar 71 drives cheap second hand.
>
> But most brands have them.
>
> Second option is a open loop vector control Vfd.  They are pretty good.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 27, 2021, 10:55 AM Earl Weaver 
> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> > I have a lathe spindle with 8 in. chuck that is run with a 5HP Reliance
> > DC Motor and Reliance DC Drive.
> > I just cannot get much power out of it at low RPM. Was trying to turn
> > 8in OD steel, at approx. 200 -250 RPM with .005 in. cut. It didn't work,
> > it just stalled.
> > When I run it at low RPM the chuck rotation is movable, not firm.
> > I can take a hold of the chuck and hold it and move it back and forth as
> > it rotates.
> > It also is more noisy at low RPM.
> >
> > This lathe is a Linuxcnc retrofit with J Elson's  Universal PWM
> > Controller and DAC Spindle control.
> > The DC drive has tachometer feedback from the motor.
> > I have tried numerous times to adjust, tune the drive, without success.
> > I also tried closed loop control from the spindle encoder within LCNC,
> > also no success.
> >
> > So here come the questions:
> > Should I keep trying to get this DC Drive working or would it be better
> > to switch to  AC Variable Frequency Drive?
> > If I would switch to AC VFD would 5HP AC Motor  be sufficient size for
> > existing 1:1 ratio double v belt to drive 8" spindle chuck?
> > What torque at low RPM can I expect for this 5HP DC motor? am I
> > expecting to much from it?
> > Would there be a better drive option for the existing DC motor?
> > Any recommendations?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > --
> > Earl Weaver
> > Email: weaverst...@frontier.com 
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Lathe Spindle Drive Questions

2021-07-26 Thread andrew beck

 I would suggest a closed loop ac Vfd drive with encoder.  They are awesome.

I normally. Buy schiender altivar 71 drives cheap second hand.

But most brands have them.

Second option is a open loop vector control Vfd.  They are pretty good.



On Tue, Jul 27, 2021, 10:55 AM Earl Weaver  wrote:

> Hi,
> I have a lathe spindle with 8 in. chuck that is run with a 5HP Reliance
> DC Motor and Reliance DC Drive.
> I just cannot get much power out of it at low RPM. Was trying to turn
> 8in OD steel, at approx. 200 -250 RPM with .005 in. cut. It didn't work,
> it just stalled.
> When I run it at low RPM the chuck rotation is movable, not firm.
> I can take a hold of the chuck and hold it and move it back and forth as
> it rotates.
> It also is more noisy at low RPM.
>
> This lathe is a Linuxcnc retrofit with J Elson's  Universal PWM
> Controller and DAC Spindle control.
> The DC drive has tachometer feedback from the motor.
> I have tried numerous times to adjust, tune the drive, without success.
> I also tried closed loop control from the spindle encoder within LCNC,
> also no success.
>
> So here come the questions:
> Should I keep trying to get this DC Drive working or would it be better
> to switch to  AC Variable Frequency Drive?
> If I would switch to AC VFD would 5HP AC Motor  be sufficient size for
> existing 1:1 ratio double v belt to drive 8" spindle chuck?
> What torque at low RPM can I expect for this 5HP DC motor? am I
> expecting to much from it?
> Would there be a better drive option for the existing DC motor?
> Any recommendations?
>
> Thanks,
> --
> Earl Weaver
> Email: weaverst...@frontier.com 
>
>
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[Emc-users] Lathe Spindle Drive Questions

2021-07-26 Thread Earl Weaver


Hi,
I have a lathe spindle with 8 in. chuck that is run with a 5HP Reliance 
DC Motor and Reliance DC Drive.
I just cannot get much power out of it at low RPM. Was trying to turn 
8in OD steel, at approx. 200 -250 RPM with .005 in. cut. It didn't work, 
it just stalled.

When I run it at low RPM the chuck rotation is movable, not firm.
I can take a hold of the chuck and hold it and move it back and forth as 
it rotates.

It also is more noisy at low RPM.

This lathe is a Linuxcnc retrofit with J Elson's  Universal PWM 
Controller and DAC Spindle control.

The DC drive has tachometer feedback from the motor.
I have tried numerous times to adjust, tune the drive, without success.
I also tried closed loop control from the spindle encoder within LCNC, 
also no success.


So here come the questions:
Should I keep trying to get this DC Drive working or would it be better 
to switch to  AC Variable Frequency Drive?
If I would switch to AC VFD would 5HP AC Motor  be sufficient size for 
existing 1:1 ratio double v belt to drive 8" spindle chuck?
What torque at low RPM can I expect for this 5HP DC motor? am I 
expecting to much from it?

Would there be a better drive option for the existing DC motor?
Any recommendations?

Thanks,
--
Earl Weaver
Email: weaverst...@frontier.com 


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Re: [Emc-users] Lathe 'topslide' component

2021-07-12 Thread Leonardo Marsaglia

>
> OK, I'll tidy it up and add some docs. It will probably take me a couple
> of days to get time to do this.
>

Thank you Les, and please take your time :)

El lun, 12 jul 2021 a las 17:17, Les Newell ()
escribió:

> OK, I'll tidy it up and add some docs. It will probably take me a couple
> of days to get time to do this.
>
> Les
>
> On 12/07/2021 18:43, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > I'm very interested.  Eventually the BeagleBone with MachineKIt was to
> be on the Gingery Lathe.  Project #42.  But I like that idea of compound
> slide simulation without having a compound or not having to turn it just to
> do a chamfer cut.
> >
> > John
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Lathe 'topslide' component

2021-07-12 Thread Les Newell

OK, I'll tidy it up and add some docs. It will probably take me a couple 
of days to get time to do this.


Les

On 12/07/2021 18:43, John Dammeyer wrote:

I'm very interested.  Eventually the BeagleBone with MachineKIt was to be on 
the Gingery Lathe.  Project #42.  But I like that idea of compound slide 
simulation without having a compound or not having to turn it just to do a 
chamfer cut.

John




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Re: [Emc-users] Lathe 'topslide' component

2021-07-12 Thread Leonardo Marsaglia

Interested! Sometimes I need to chamfer manually on the Mazak and It's a
lot more convenient than using a file.

El lun, 12 jul 2021 a las 14:46, John Dammeyer ()
escribió:

> I'm very interested.  Eventually the BeagleBone with MachineKIt was to be
> on the Gingery Lathe.  Project #42.  But I like that idea of compound slide
> simulation without having a compound or not having to turn it just to do a
> chamfer cut.
>
> John
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Les Newell [mailto:les.new...@fastmail.co.uk]
> > Sent: July-12-21 10:05 AM
> > To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > Subject: [Emc-users] Lathe 'topslide' component
> >
> > A while back I wrote a component for a simulated top slide for lathes
> > with dual MPGs. It allows you to enter an angle and remap the X axis MPG
> > to move both axes simultaneously at that angle. I use it quite a bit for
> > chamfering. At the press of a button I can swap from normal X-Z to X
> > moving the cutter at 45 degrees (or whatever angle).
> >
> > Is this of any interest to any one else?
> >
> > Les
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
>
> ___
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Re: [Emc-users] Lathe 'topslide' component

2021-07-12 Thread Rob C

I'm interested, thanks Les

Rob / Robertspark

On Mon, 12 Jul 2021, 18:08 Les Newell,  wrote:

> A while back I wrote a component for a simulated top slide for lathes
> with dual MPGs. It allows you to enter an angle and remap the X axis MPG
> to move both axes simultaneously at that angle. I use it quite a bit for
> chamfering. At the press of a button I can swap from normal X-Z to X
> moving the cutter at 45 degrees (or whatever angle).
>
> Is this of any interest to any one else?
>
> Les
>
>
>
> ___
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Re: [Emc-users] Lathe 'topslide' component

2021-07-12 Thread John Dammeyer

I'm very interested.  Eventually the BeagleBone with MachineKIt was to be on 
the Gingery Lathe.  Project #42.  But I like that idea of compound slide 
simulation without having a compound or not having to turn it just to do a 
chamfer cut.

John


> -Original Message-
> From: Les Newell [mailto:les.new...@fastmail.co.uk]
> Sent: July-12-21 10:05 AM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: [Emc-users] Lathe 'topslide' component
> 
> A while back I wrote a component for a simulated top slide for lathes
> with dual MPGs. It allows you to enter an angle and remap the X axis MPG
> to move both axes simultaneously at that angle. I use it quite a bit for
> chamfering. At the press of a button I can swap from normal X-Z to X
> moving the cutter at 45 degrees (or whatever angle).
> 
> Is this of any interest to any one else?
> 
> Les
> 
> 
> 
> ___
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[Emc-users] Lathe 'topslide' component

2021-07-12 Thread Les Newell

A while back I wrote a component for a simulated top slide for lathes 
with dual MPGs. It allows you to enter an angle and remap the X axis MPG 
to move both axes simultaneously at that angle. I use it quite a bit for 
chamfering. At the press of a button I can swap from normal X-Z to X 
moving the cutter at 45 degrees (or whatever angle).


Is this of any interest to any one else?

Les



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Re: [Emc-users] Lathe spindle vfd settings

Thanks again, sir :)

Phil T.
The Feral Engineer

Check out my LinuxCNC tutorials, machine builds and other antics at
www.youtube.com/c/theferalengineer

On Fri, Mar 5, 2021, 10:38 PM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Friday 05 March 2021 21:17:12 Feral Engineer wrote:
>
> > Thanks Gene
> >
> > My emco is running a pi 4 as well. Model b, 4gb. What kind of latency
> > figures are you getting on your servo thread? I find mine to be a bit
> > finicky unless I keep wifi off
>
> About 12 u-s.  Worst I ever recorded was 200 u-s after pokig around the
> planet with firefox for about an hour. But that is not as important as
> you might think as both x and z are now 3 phase stepper servo's so they
> haven't much to worry about even with bad latency because of the rubber
> between the stepper drivers, which are in the mesa 7i90HD interface
> card.  So the servos are the coupling between the stepper driver and the
> stepper itself. The advantage is that it only uses enough amps from the
> supply to keep it running smoothly. So the steppers run zombie cool, and
> with near total silence.  Watching it run a program is a bit like
> watching Casper The Ghost, its so quiet.
>
> I acquired this lathe with a broken compound, it fell over long before I
> got it and landed on the compound crank, bending the spindle a few thou
> from the sudden stop with a bison 3 jaw chuck mounted, which I've since
> reground and it all runs true now. So now a QCTP is sitting on a couple
> pounds of cast iron. I cut from the sprue of a white truck wheel, we
> make them here in Weston, holding the TP a its normal height. It is so
> solid there's very little tool chatter either. I don't miss the compound
> since Linuxcnc IS a better compound than it ever had, doing far more
> accurate angles.
>
> > Phil T.
> > The Feral Engineer
> >
> > Check out my LinuxCNC tutorials, machine builds and other antics at
> > www.youtube.com/c/theferalengineer
> >
> I've seen 3 or 4 of them. Decent stuff,
>
> > On Fri, Mar 5, 2021, 7:56 PM Gene Heskett  wrote:
> > > On Friday 05 March 2021 18:35:19 andy pugh wrote:
> > > > On Fri, 5 Mar 2021 at 23:31, Feral Engineer
> > >
> > >  wrote:
> > > > > Can someone send me a copypasta of their spindle hal stuff? Pid,
> > > > > ff0,1,2 encoder feedback, all that?
> > > >
> > > > I don't actually run PID on my lathe spindle. I have some
> > > > moderately complex gear selection stuff going on, but otherwise I
> > > > just trust the VFD to do the job.
> > >
> > > I don't have a pid loaded in either of my machines that are running
> > > a vfd. The vfd is stiff enough it doesn't need fawncy controls.
> > >
> > > The only reason I have an encoder on the sheldon lathe is for G33.1
> > > and G76 support. Both of those slave the z travel to the spindle,
> > > what ever its running at doesn't change more than 2% under cutting
> > > load for G76, and maybe 5% for a big tap doing rigid taping. G76
> > > also slaves the x to the programmed G76 cutting depth. On the
> > > sheldon, a pwmgen feeds a spinx1 which controls the vfd. Not even an
> > > d/a except the spinx1 because I run the pwmgen at a rate thats above
> > > the bandwidth of the spinx1.
> > >
> > > You get far better results by properly tuning the vfd.  OOTB they
> > > suck huge dead toads thru soda straws. With a pwmgen getting the
> > > speed signals from motions spindle output, that pwm fed to the
> > > spinx1 along with the dir signal, and a bit of hal sequencing, my
> > > Sheldon, turning at 100 revs in high backgear, and low belt
> > > position/speed, I can do a rigid tap move, and measuring the
> > > overshoot at the bottom of the G33.1 move, is .25 turns.  That's
> > > with a nearly 40 lb 8" 4 jaw chuck mounted.  Who needs a pid?
> > >
> > > That .hal file is attached. Cherry pick with my blessing.  Sure its
> > > a rpi4 file, but its running a Sheldon lathe that after stripping
> > > the stuff linuxcnc doesn't need, and putting in decent ball screws,
> > > still weighs around 1350 lbs.
> > >
> > > Stay safe and well, John.
> > >
> > > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> > > --
> > > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> > >  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> > > -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> > > If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law
> > > respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
> > > Genes Web page 
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law

Re: [Emc-users] Lathe spindle vfd settings

2021-03-05 Thread Gene Heskett

On Friday 05 March 2021 21:17:12 Feral Engineer wrote:

> Thanks Gene
>
> My emco is running a pi 4 as well. Model b, 4gb. What kind of latency
> figures are you getting on your servo thread? I find mine to be a bit
> finicky unless I keep wifi off

About 12 u-s.  Worst I ever recorded was 200 u-s after pokig around the 
planet with firefox for about an hour. But that is not as important as 
you might think as both x and z are now 3 phase stepper servo's so they 
haven't much to worry about even with bad latency because of the rubber 
between the stepper drivers, which are in the mesa 7i90HD interface 
card.  So the servos are the coupling between the stepper driver and the 
stepper itself. The advantage is that it only uses enough amps from the 
supply to keep it running smoothly. So the steppers run zombie cool, and 
with near total silence.  Watching it run a program is a bit like 
watching Casper The Ghost, its so quiet.

I acquired this lathe with a broken compound, it fell over long before I 
got it and landed on the compound crank, bending the spindle a few thou 
from the sudden stop with a bison 3 jaw chuck mounted, which I've since 
reground and it all runs true now. So now a QCTP is sitting on a couple 
pounds of cast iron. I cut from the sprue of a white truck wheel, we 
make them here in Weston, holding the TP a its normal height. It is so 
solid there's very little tool chatter either. I don't miss the compound 
since Linuxcnc IS a better compound than it ever had, doing far more 
accurate angles.

> Phil T.
> The Feral Engineer
>
> Check out my LinuxCNC tutorials, machine builds and other antics at
> www.youtube.com/c/theferalengineer
>
I've seen 3 or 4 of them. Decent stuff,

> On Fri, Mar 5, 2021, 7:56 PM Gene Heskett  wrote:
> > On Friday 05 March 2021 18:35:19 andy pugh wrote:
> > > On Fri, 5 Mar 2021 at 23:31, Feral Engineer
> >
> >  wrote:
> > > > Can someone send me a copypasta of their spindle hal stuff? Pid,
> > > > ff0,1,2 encoder feedback, all that?
> > >
> > > I don't actually run PID on my lathe spindle. I have some
> > > moderately complex gear selection stuff going on, but otherwise I
> > > just trust the VFD to do the job.
> >
> > I don't have a pid loaded in either of my machines that are running
> > a vfd. The vfd is stiff enough it doesn't need fawncy controls.
> >
> > The only reason I have an encoder on the sheldon lathe is for G33.1
> > and G76 support. Both of those slave the z travel to the spindle,
> > what ever its running at doesn't change more than 2% under cutting
> > load for G76, and maybe 5% for a big tap doing rigid taping. G76
> > also slaves the x to the programmed G76 cutting depth. On the
> > sheldon, a pwmgen feeds a spinx1 which controls the vfd. Not even an
> > d/a except the spinx1 because I run the pwmgen at a rate thats above
> > the bandwidth of the spinx1.
> >
> > You get far better results by properly tuning the vfd.  OOTB they
> > suck huge dead toads thru soda straws. With a pwmgen getting the
> > speed signals from motions spindle output, that pwm fed to the
> > spinx1 along with the dir signal, and a bit of hal sequencing, my
> > Sheldon, turning at 100 revs in high backgear, and low belt
> > position/speed, I can do a rigid tap move, and measuring the
> > overshoot at the bottom of the G33.1 move, is .25 turns.  That's
> > with a nearly 40 lb 8" 4 jaw chuck mounted.  Who needs a pid?
> >
> > That .hal file is attached. Cherry pick with my blessing.  Sure its
> > a rpi4 file, but its running a Sheldon lathe that after stripping
> > the stuff linuxcnc doesn't need, and putting in decent ball screws,
> > still weighs around 1350 lbs.
> >
> > Stay safe and well, John.
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> > --
> > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> >  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> > -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> > If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law
> > respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
> > Genes Web page 
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Lathe spindle vfd settings

Thanks Gene

My emco is running a pi 4 as well. Model b, 4gb. What kind of latency
figures are you getting on your servo thread? I find mine to be a bit
finicky unless I keep wifi off

Phil T.
The Feral Engineer

Check out my LinuxCNC tutorials, machine builds and other antics at
www.youtube.com/c/theferalengineer

On Fri, Mar 5, 2021, 7:56 PM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Friday 05 March 2021 18:35:19 andy pugh wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 5 Mar 2021 at 23:31, Feral Engineer
>  wrote:
> > > Can someone send me a copypasta of their spindle hal stuff? Pid,
> > > ff0,1,2 encoder feedback, all that?
> >
> > I don't actually run PID on my lathe spindle. I have some moderately
> > complex gear selection stuff going on, but otherwise I just trust the
> > VFD to do the job.
> I don't have a pid loaded in either of my machines that are running a
> vfd. The vfd is stiff enough it doesn't need fawncy controls.
>
> The only reason I have an encoder on the sheldon lathe is for G33.1 and
> G76 support. Both of those slave the z travel to the spindle, what ever
> its running at doesn't change more than 2% under cutting load for G76,
> and maybe 5% for a big tap doing rigid taping. G76 also slaves the x to
> the programmed G76 cutting depth. On the sheldon, a pwmgen feeds a
> spinx1 which controls the vfd. Not even an d/a except the spinx1 because
> I run the pwmgen at a rate thats above the bandwidth of the spinx1.
>
> You get far better results by properly tuning the vfd.  OOTB they suck
> huge dead toads thru soda straws. With a pwmgen getting the speed
> signals from motions spindle output, that pwm fed to the spinx1 along
> with the dir signal, and a bit of hal sequencing, my Sheldon, turning at
> 100 revs in high backgear, and low belt position/speed, I can do a rigid
> tap move, and measuring the overshoot at the bottom of the G33.1 move,
> is .25 turns.  That's with a nearly 40 lb 8" 4 jaw chuck mounted.  Who
> needs a pid?
>
> That .hal file is attached. Cherry pick with my blessing.  Sure its a
> rpi4 file, but its running a Sheldon lathe that after stripping the
> stuff linuxcnc doesn't need, and putting in decent ball screws,
> still weighs around 1350 lbs.
>
> Stay safe and well, John.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>

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Re: [Emc-users] Lathe spindle vfd settings

2021-03-05 Thread Gene Heskett

On Friday 05 March 2021 18:35:19 andy pugh wrote:

> On Fri, 5 Mar 2021 at 23:31, Feral Engineer
wrote:
> > Can someone send me a copypasta of their spindle hal stuff? Pid,
> > ff0,1,2 encoder feedback, all that?
>
> I don't actually run PID on my lathe spindle. I have some moderately
> complex gear selection stuff going on, but otherwise I just trust the
> VFD to do the job.
I don't have a pid loaded in either of my machines that are running a
vfd. The vfd is stiff enough it doesn't need fawncy controls.

The only reason I have an encoder on the sheldon lathe is for G33.1 and
G76 support. Both of those slave the z travel to the spindle, what ever
its running at doesn't change more than 2% under cutting load for G76,
and maybe 5% for a big tap doing rigid taping. G76 also slaves the x to
the programmed G76 cutting depth. On the sheldon, a pwmgen feeds a
spinx1 which controls the vfd. Not even an d/a except the spinx1 because
I run the pwmgen at a rate thats above the bandwidth of the spinx1.

You get far better results by properly tuning the vfd. OOTB they suck
huge dead toads thru soda straws. With a pwmgen getting the speed
signals from motions spindle output, that pwm fed to the spinx1 along
with the dir signal, and a bit of hal sequencing, my Sheldon, turning at
100 revs in high backgear, and low belt position/speed, I can do a rigid
tap move, and measuring the overshoot at the bottom of the G33.1 move,
is .25 turns. That's with a nearly 40 lb 8" 4 jaw chuck mounted. Who
needs a pid?

That .hal file is attached. Cherry pick with my blessing. Sure its a
rpi4 file, but its running a Sheldon lathe that after stripping the
stuff linuxcnc doesn't need, and putting in decent ball screws,
still weighs around 1350 lbs.

Stay safe and well, John.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
- Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page
###
# WORKING DOWN FROM THE TOP, THE LAST GPIO IN USE AS OF THIS DATE IS 063 FOR
VFD-RESET!
# hm2-7i90-stepper.hal version 1.005 a/o above date
# because the 7i90 is damaged, everything is enabled.
# HAL file for HostMot2 with 4 steppers, 4 encoders, 2 pwmgen
# Apparently a blown gpio.00 so x ,is dead, bring up another stepgen
# and use it. 2 was dead also, so 3 is now x Damn the static electricity
# Derived from Ted Hyde's original hm2-servo config
#
# Based up work and discussion with Seb & Peter & Jeff
# GNU license references - insert here. www.linuxcnc.org
#
# See also:
#

# and http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?HostMot2
#

# Core EMC/HAL Loads

# kinematics
loadrt [KINS]KINEMATICS

# motion controller, get name and thread periods from ini file
loadrt [EMCMOT]EMCMOT servo_period_nsec=[EMCMOT]SERVO_PERIOD
num_joints=[KINS]JOINTS

##
# extra, slower thread for jogwheel stuffs at 200Hz
loadrt threads name1=jog-thread period1=2000 fp1=1
##
# hostmot2 driver
loadrt hostmot2

# load low-level driver
loadrt [HOSTMOT2](DRIVER) config=[HOSTMOT2](CONFIG) spi_debug=3
spiclk_rate=41666 spiclk_rate_rd=25000

# load estop latch component
loadrt estop_latch count=1

loadusr -W /home/pi/linuxcnc/configs/sheldon-lathe/units.py

# loadrt stuff for g33.1 ovrtrvl
loadrt sample_hold names=sample-dirchg,sample-spndlchg

# Now my stuff for a steady tach reading
loadrt lowpass names=spindle-tach-filter,spindle-steady
loadrt abs
names=spindle-abs,spindle-tach-unidir,abs.0,abs.1,gear_abs,abs_encdir
loadrt minmax names=spindle-track,X-axis-track,Z-axis-track
loadrt scale names=scale-tach,scale-ovrtrvl
loadrt nearnames=close-enough
loadrt tristate_bit names=watchdog-reset
loadrt updown names=updownxcounter,updownzcounter
loadrt conv_s32_u32count=2
loadrt conv_s32_float names=s32floatx,s32floatz,s32_float_cmd,s32_float_spndl
loadrt conv_float_s32 names=floats32x,floats32z
loadrt bitslice names=mux8addrx,mux8addrz personality=3,3
loadrt mux8 names=mux8jogspeedx,mux8jogspeedz
loadrt wcomp names=jogsteerx,jogsteerz
# here I need the module name as its leading portion
loadrt and2
names=and2xgainup,and2xgaindown,and2xgate,and2zgainup,and2zgaindown,and2zgate,and2xtoggle,and2ztoggle,Flt-and2-estop
loadrt mult2
names=mult2x1,mult2x2,mult2z1,mult2z2,mult2gear,mult2pwm,mult2turns,mult2distance
loadrt not names=notjogx,notjogz,FaultXnot,FaultZnot,FHomeNot
# need a jog-disable when adjusting stepsize
loadrt mux2names=jogmux2x,jogmux2z,ovrtvl-frz,ovrtrvl-scaler-mux
loadrt oneshot

Re: [Emc-users] Lathe spindle vfd settings

Lenze 8200 vector from an emco pc turn 55

Phil T.
The Feral Engineer

Check out my LinuxCNC tutorials, machine builds and other antics at
www.youtube.com/c/theferalengineer

On Fri, Mar 5, 2021, 7:34 PM andy pugh  wrote:

> On Sat, 6 Mar 2021 at 00:07, Feral Engineer 
> wrote:
> > I've got 2 speed pulleys on mine 2000 and 4000rpm. Just want to try and
> > fine tune the rpm and see if there's a way to soften the acc/dec without
> > messing with the vfd (don't have the removable programming panel).
>
> Which VFD  is it? In some cases the LinuxCNC ModBus drivers let you do
> all that the OP panel would allow. Though sadly in some cases you
> can't enable Modbus without the OP.
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Lathe spindle vfd settings

2021-03-05 Thread andy pugh

On Sat, 6 Mar 2021 at 00:07, Feral Engineer  wrote:
> I've got 2 speed pulleys on mine 2000 and 4000rpm. Just want to try and
> fine tune the rpm and see if there's a way to soften the acc/dec without
> messing with the vfd (don't have the removable programming panel).

Which VFD  is it? In some cases the LinuxCNC ModBus drivers let you do
all that the OP panel would allow. Though sadly in some cases you
can't enable Modbus without the OP.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] Lathe spindle vfd settings

I've got 2 speed pulleys on mine 2000 and 4000rpm. Just want to try and
fine tune the rpm and see if there's a way to soften the acc/dec without
messing with the vfd (don't have the removable programming panel). Plus, i
like to tinker with stuff to learn more about it.

Phil T.
The Feral Engineer

Check out my LinuxCNC tutorials, machine builds and other antics at
www.youtube.com/c/theferalengineer

On Fri, Mar 5, 2021, 6:38 PM andy pugh  wrote:

> On Fri, 5 Mar 2021 at 23:31, Feral Engineer 
> wrote:
> >
> > Can someone send me a copypasta of their spindle hal stuff? Pid, ff0,1,2
> > encoder feedback, all that?
>
> I don't actually run PID on my lathe spindle. I have some moderately
> complex gear selection stuff going on, but otherwise I just trust the
> VFD to do the job.
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
>
>
> ___
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>

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Re: [Emc-users] Lathe spindle vfd settings

2021-03-05 Thread andy pugh

On Fri, 5 Mar 2021 at 23:31, Feral Engineer  wrote:
>
> Can someone send me a copypasta of their spindle hal stuff? Pid, ff0,1,2
> encoder feedback, all that?

I don't actually run PID on my lathe spindle. I have some moderately
complex gear selection stuff going on, but otherwise I just trust the
VFD to do the job.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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[Emc-users] Lathe spindle vfd settings

Can someone send me a copypasta of their spindle hal stuff? Pid, ff0,1,2
encoder feedback, all that? Gonna tackle the one on my machine but I've
never done it before, so a starting point would be helpful.

TIA

Phil T.
The Feral Engineer

Check out my LinuxCNC tutorials, machine builds and other antics at
www.youtube.com/c/theferalengineer

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Re: [Emc-users] lathe paths with linux cnc and CAD software

2021-02-03 Thread dave engvall

If you have nothing else to do download the demo for SynergyCAD. 
Parasoiid based. 2-D, 2.5D, wireframe, solids. lathe, edm.

For the lathe you draw in X,Y and it transforms it to Z, X when you CAM.
I started from scratch and it took me a long time to get comfortable 
with it. Exports are dxf, dwg which tend to be problematical and iges.
... runs on Windoze with  some limitations but those limitations go away 
with Linux.

Their forte was extrusion screws back when the only program was DOS based.
 YMMV.

Dave

On 2/3/21 2:37 PM, R C wrote:
actually, I think that is what I saw that guy in that video I posted 
doing. In freecad, he took a plane and intersected it with his work 
piece, and then created a path (he called it a wire.).  I posted that 
video here  a few iterations back in this thread.



That seemed kind of neat, how he did that,  but I was not able to 
reproduce that.




On 2/3/21 3:29 PM, andy pugh wrote:

On Wed, 3 Feb 2021 at 21:55, R C  wrote:

I know how to code, from micro controller to clusters,  but this 
"g-code

thing" is a different animal.  And I imagine,  that it would take a lot
of drawing and coding on paper, you know,  like the 1970's Univaxes...

Not really, you just need to draw the outline. For most lathe-turned
parts that is just a set of diameters and shoulders.




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Re: [Emc-users] lathe paths with linux cnc and CAD software

actually,  I think that is what I saw that guy in that video I posted 
doing. In freecad, he took a plane and intersected it with his work 
piece, and then created a path (he called it a wire.).  I posted that 
video here  a few iterations back in this thread.



That seemed kind of neat, how he did that,  but I was not able to 
reproduce that.




On 2/3/21 3:29 PM, andy pugh wrote:

On Wed, 3 Feb 2021 at 21:55, R C  wrote:


I know how to code, from micro controller to clusters,  but this "g-code
thing" is a different animal.  And I imagine,  that it would take a lot
of drawing and coding on paper, you know,  like the 1970's Univaxes...

Not really, you just need to draw the outline. For most lathe-turned
parts that is just a set of diameters and shoulders.




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Re: [Emc-users] lathe paths with linux cnc and CAD software

2021-02-03 Thread andy pugh

On Wed, 3 Feb 2021 at 21:55, R C  wrote:

> I know how to code, from micro controller to clusters,  but this "g-code
> thing" is a different animal.  And I imagine,  that it would take a lot
> of drawing and coding on paper, you know,  like the 1970's Univaxes...

Not really, you just need to draw the outline. For most lathe-turned
parts that is just a set of diameters and shoulders.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] lathe paths with linux cnc and CAD software

2021-02-03 Thread Matthew Herd

In my experience you don't need to run the installer after renewing a
Fusion360 license for personal use.  You just have to do some clicking on
their website.  If the installer downloads automatically as a part of the
license renewal you can ignore it.

On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 4:50 PM R C  wrote:

> I set up a new machine with a clean windows 10 install (on a disk tray),
> after the install it was not happy with the  AMD ATI video card
> (irritating), apparently there is an ATI driver that messes up and is
> not needed.
>
>
> When the application starts,  one needs to be connected to the internet,
> and log in with an account and password previously created.  (also
> annoying  and a security risk I think).
>
>
>
> does the installer, a new download, install over the old one?  do you
> need to uninstall the old one?   or start from scratch with a fresh
> windows 10 even?
>
>
>
>
> On 2/3/21 1:59 PM, Dave Matthews wrote:
> > On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 3:13 PM R C  wrote:
> >
> >> well,
> >>
> >>
> >> I don't expect companies to give me stuff for free of course, they
> >> produce software for a market, to make money, I am just not in that
> >> market. I read that a license, per year, if not mistaken, is $495, and
> >> you can use it for free for a year (1st year ?). That is of course a
> >> good deal, for a machine shop.
> >>
> >>
> >> The one year license is renewable.  To renew you just download the
> > installer again.  I don't think I even let the download complete last
> time
> > I did it.
> >
> > Dave
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
> ___
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>


-- 
Matthew Herd
Email:  herd.m...@gmail.com
Cell:  610-608-8930

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Re: [Emc-users] lathe paths with linux cnc and CAD software



On 2/3/21 2:14 PM, andy pugh wrote:

On Tue, 2 Feb 2021 at 18:18, R C  wrote:


I have been busy for a while with that pay check thing, and didn't have
much time to look into  creating g-code, that I can use  in linux cnc
for a lathe.

It's worth pointing out that now that LinuxCNC has G71 and G72 you
might not need CAM.


right,  I looked at that, a while back.



If you can hand-code the desired profile then the repeated cuts etc
are all done by the cycle.


I know how to code, from micro controller to clusters,  but this "g-code 
thing" is a different animal.  And I imagine,  that it would take a lot 
of drawing and coding on paper, you know,  like the 1970's Univaxes...


It seems more convenient, esier, less error prone, less crashing tools 
in the chuck, work etc,  to do it with a CAD program, and have it 
generate  g-code.




Be aware that the built-in version in Master uses a different set of
control words to the Python remap version that can run on earlier
versions.


Uhm,   I don't ven understand what it is you just said 



I am still searching for something that  works for me the easiest, but  
as I said, it is a beginning hobby for me, so I am not pressured for time.





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Re: [Emc-users] lathe paths with linux cnc and CAD software

I set up a new machine with a clean windows 10 install (on a disk tray), 
after the install it was not happy with the  AMD ATI video card 
(irritating), apparently there is an ATI driver that messes up and is 
not needed.



When the application starts,  one needs to be connected to the internet, 
and log in with an account and password previously created.  (also  
annoying  and a security risk I think).




does the installer, a new download, install over the old one?  do you 
need to uninstall the old one?   or start from scratch with a fresh 
windows 10 even?





On 2/3/21 1:59 PM, Dave Matthews wrote:

On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 3:13 PM R C  wrote:


well,


I don't expect companies to give me stuff for free of course, they
produce software for a market, to make money, I am just not in that
market. I read that a license, per year, if not mistaken, is $495, and
you can use it for free for a year (1st year ?). That is of course a
good deal, for a machine shop.


The one year license is renewable.  To renew you just download the

installer again.  I don't think I even let the download complete last time
I did it.

Dave

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Re: [Emc-users] lathe paths with linux cnc and CAD software

2021-02-03 Thread andy pugh

On Tue, 2 Feb 2021 at 18:18, R C  wrote:

> I have been busy for a while with that pay check thing, and didn't have
> much time to look into  creating g-code, that I can use  in linux cnc
> for a lathe.

It's worth pointing out that now that LinuxCNC has G71 and G72 you
might not need CAM.

If you can hand-code the desired profile then the repeated cuts etc
are all done by the cycle.

Be aware that the built-in version in Master uses a different set of
control words to the Python remap version that can run on earlier
versions.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912

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Re: [Emc-users] lathe paths with linux cnc and CAD software

2021-02-03 Thread andy pugh

On Wed, 3 Feb 2021 at 16:48, Bruce Layne  wrote:
>
> once you have tens or
> hundreds of designs in their proprietary CAD format, they decide to
> unilaterally change the deal and you're trapped.

Not just Autodesk, though. Alibre did that to me.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] lathe paths with linux cnc and CAD software

2021-02-03 Thread Dave Matthews

On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 3:13 PM R C  wrote:

> well,
>
>
> I don't expect companies to give me stuff for free of course, they
> produce software for a market, to make money, I am just not in that
> market. I read that a license, per year, if not mistaken, is $495, and
> you can use it for free for a year (1st year ?). That is of course a
> good deal, for a machine shop.
>
>
> The one year license is renewable.  To renew you just download the
installer again.  I don't think I even let the download complete last time
I did it.

Dave

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Re: [Emc-users] lathe paths with linux cnc and CAD software