EV Digest 7036
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: A few pics of Mike Willmons motors
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: 4002 vs. ADC 8"
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: necessity of other gauges (12V and vacuum)
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Test
by BrownGassyTurd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Test
by "Dmitri" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Conflicting Pattents ?
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Th!nk - Can it PASS the Crash TEST ??
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) "Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering
wheel?"
by "Bukosky, Allen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Information needed please.
by "Aaron Choate" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Information needed please. henney kilowatt
by keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Audio interference in EV
by "Brian Pikkula" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Test
by kevin conley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Conflicting Pattents ?
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Test
by BrownGassyTurd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: necessity of other gauges (12V and vacuum)
by "storm connors" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Battery Problems
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) LPI paddle charger parts - #2
by "Steve Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: necessity of other gauges (12V and vacuum)
by "Deanne Mott" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: A few pics of Mike Willmons motors
by MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Anyone seen a 1600A fuse before?
by Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Conflicting Pattents ?
by lyle sloan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Land of the Midnight Run
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Test
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Anyone seen a 1600A fuse before?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: EV's need sleep mode
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: batteries: another increasing range question
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hey all
One other thing here, Mike likes to flip me a lot of
greif here on the list, so I built him a motor that
he'll have to install without touching, just to get
EVen, LMAO!
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo!
FareChase.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well Michael,
Depends.
I know the MTC well. Not much about the ADC 8". The
MTC-4001 replaced a 9" Baldor in the Jet Ind
ElectraVan and put the 9" to shame. But the Baldor 9"
was an easy target. The MTC-4002 is the same winding
as MTC-4001 with some mechanical difference. MTC
defines the elctromagnetics of the Prestolite motor.
Which I know was very good for the MTC. That 33 slot
lamination was exceptional. Great efficiency.
Like I said, I don't know the ADC motor. But I
suspect that it has a different winding with more
slots, making it higher torque/slower speed for a
given current. So, for equivalent vehicle performance
between the two motors, you'd have to gear
differently. And, depending on brush advance, chances
are the ADC would commutate better at higher voltage.
At a given power output, I'd bet MTC to have higher
efficiency. But, a few percent can get lost in the
mix. You really have to get the motor curves and hack
it out for your application. Barring all that work,
get the one most available and least costly, and work
your vehicle system around it.
Jeff
--- Michael Mohlere <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Maybe I should pare down the question:
>
> I was hoping a seasoned EV veteran could give me an
> opinion as to the
> difference between a Prestolite MTC-4002 and an ADC
> 8" .... would the
> difference be negligible? Would an EV w/ a
> Prestolite 4002 be preferable to
> one w/ an ADC 8" or vice versa - I realize the ADC
> is the more "modern"
> version, so the Prestolite would be older, but in
> terms of performance......
>
> Sorry about beating this horse to death!!!
>
> While I'm at it, anyone installed aftermarket a/c in
> an EV before...looking
> for comments.
>
> Thanks, Mike
>
>
> From: Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: seeking comments on EV motor sizing
> Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 07:06:03 -0700 (PDT)
>
> Hey Jeff, all
>
> Great write up Jeff 8^) Now lets add to this mess
> with whether two smaller motors are better than one
> larger.
>
> The larger motor will generally be more eff, but
> when
> using two motors you get the benifit of a series /
> parallel shift as well as "generally" higher rpm
> ability as you state.
>
> I've posted several times that a motors mass is an
> easy (although rough) way for folks to judge a
> motors
> abilities. Winding a slot car motor for 240 volts
> wont get ya an EV motor 8^P
>
> Although there are a lot of people using smaller
> motors, I like to recommend that people use motors
> that weigh a min of a 100 lbs. People using smaller
> than that use forced air to cool it to increase it's
> duty cycle.
> Even then they are usually prone to shorter brush
> life
> than those using motors of larger mass. In fact
> anytime I hear about "brush wear" I think "well try
> using a motor sized for the car" LMAO!
>
> Anyway great write up Jeff, just thought I'd chime
> in
> on a couple more things to concider when choosing a
> motor. It may "all" be about batteries for EV'ers
> but
> as last weekend showed your motor has to be able to
> take what they can dish out as well 8^)
> Hope this helps
> Jim Husted
> Hi-Torque Electric
>
>
> --- Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >
> > Hey Michael,
> >
> > A little more to it than that. Motor mass
> (weight)
> > is
> > a good judge of the torque capability. More
> copper
> > and steel, more torque. Power is torque times
> > speed.
> > So one would think more motor mass, more torque,
> > more
> > power. But wait. The larger diameter motor may
> > have
> > a lower speed limit. Larger diameter means more
> > force
> > trying to make spinning parts disassemble at
> speed.
> >
> > Then you have to consider the length of the
> motor,
> > not
> > just the diameter. Some large diameter motors
> are
> > short and actually less torquey than smaller
> > diameter
> > longer motors. But an inch of diameter gets you
> > more
> > than an inch of length. Use DsquaredL for
> > comparison.
> > And that should be the D and L for the armature
> > stack. But overall D and L is related.
> >
> > Also entered into the mix is your application or
> > duty-cycle. You doing 10 second runs maxxed out
> or
> > putzing around town? This will affect the motor
> > cooling. Larger motors generally will have
> higher
> > amp
> > rating, depending on the cooling and duty-cycle.
> > But
> > if a large motor and a smaller one have the same
> > size
> > brushes, then the short time base rating will be
> > about
> > the same amperes.
> >
> > Best to get the speed/torque curves and thermal
> > ratings for the particular motors you are
> > considering.
> > That would be the right way to make the right
> > choice.
> >
> > Hope that helps.
> >
> > Jeff
> >
> >
> >
> > --- Michael Mohlere <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > Is it as simple as an 11" motor has more HP
> than a
> > > 9" motor has more HP than
> > > an 8" motor, etc...or are there other factors
> > > (besides "will it fit") that
> > > need to be considered?
> > >
> > > Thanks, Mike
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
> > Looking for earth-friendly autos?
> > Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo!
> Autos'
> > Green Center.
> > http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
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>
_________________________________________________________________
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>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Do a search for "LEM current" on ebay. You'll find a lot of current
transducers. They often need +/- 12V to run, and output (for example)
1V per 100A.
Here's a 300A (but can be configured for 500A) model for $19.00 (no
bidding). This one uses a current-mode output signal:
*
*http://tinyurl.com/yosbga
Dave Cover wrote:
In addition to an eMeter, I also have a vacuum gauge and a digital voltmeter
for the 12 volt
system.
The State of CT wants the driver of the car to know that there is vacuum for
the power brakes. At
first they asked for a warning buzzer if the vacuum fell too low. But after
discussing the issue
it seemed sufficient to have a vacuum gauge so the driver would know how the
brakes were doing.
I added the 12 volt for the same reason you mentioned. I wanted to keep an eye
on the house
battery and see how my DC-DC is doing, once I get it installed.
I'd like to add a motor side ammeter, but that can wait. I'm a little concerned
about adding any
connections between my controller and motor. I don't want to add anything
unnecessary where it
matters most. Does anyone know of an inductive pickup I can run my motor lead
through to get
current readings? Like a permanent clamp on ammeter instead of a shunt.
Thanks
Dave Cover, Canton, CT
--- Brian Pikkula <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I was thinking of installing a 12V gauge to monitor my aux battery
(and DC/DC converter by proxy) and a vacuum gauge to make sure all is
well with my brakes.
Before i buy them, I was wondering if others have such gauges or are
they unnecessary?
Thanks
--
Brian in TX
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/960
http://www.evdub.blogspot.com/
It may seem like I am doing nothing, but on a cellular level I'm
really quite busy.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello World...
Can anyone see this?
Second posting.
I have SET EV mail ack and nothing...
Manny
http://EVorBust.blogspot.com
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1117
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
yes
----- Original Message -----
From: "BrownGassyTurd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 11:07 AM
Subject: Test
Hello World...
Can anyone see this?
Second posting.
I have SET EV mail ack and nothing...
Manny
http://EVorBust.blogspot.com
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1117
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Recent POSTS in Bill Moors EV-World seem to be similar.
Axion Developing Supercapacitor PbC 'Battery' a sponge activated
charcoal negative electrode Lead-Acid battery with lots of glowing
claims for long life, and quick chargers
and Firefly seems to have the same thing...just being awarded some
engineering award from The R&D 100 awards are presented by R&D Magazine.
Any comments ? People in the Know ??
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The Th1nk EV seems to be gaining some traction, with new investors
jumping in, according to several sources and news briefs.
Does any one know whether the car itself will ever pass muster with
the US crash-worthy standards ?? Or will it just be another 25 mph NEV ??
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
"Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering
wheel?" Sounds pretty close to a horse and buggy arrangement, to me.
Lots of people did that, some with single and some with dual exhausts.
BTW. Did you know one definition of a bed is: "A workbench for making
tricycle motors?"
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The 1961 Kilowatt that Cara and I own has a contactor controller.
Though, I believe that there are some floating around with more modern
affairs. I know I have seen at least three on the EVAlbum. I am not
sure that they are all still owned by the listed owners, but they are
in the Renault section.
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/type/RENA
Ours is
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/485
I am not sure as to the value of the car so I won't venture an opinion
there. We have just been trying to be good caretakers to our little
bit of EV history.
Cheers,
Aaron Choate
On 7/17/07, Christopher Robison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On Tue, 2007-07-17 at 01:09 -0400, Joseph T. wrote:
> "The motor controller is a strictly electromechanical affair"
>
> Really? Wikipedia claims that the Henney Kilowatt is "transistor-regulated)
I could be wrong, but I know what I've seen. A friend (maybe he'll speak
up here) owns a Kilowatt and I've driven it a number of times. I've seen
the contactors working while the car is in motion.
Perhaps they implemented a transistor-based controller on later
vehicles; I don't know. But I have seen no transistors or other
electronic systems at all in the one I've driven. Just a "CLUNK" "CLUNK
CLUNK" of contactors as you press the pedal, and a bit of a jerk (not
much) as the car switches between voltages. The system has every
appearance of being stock and an original part of the car.
Somewhere there's got to be a decent picture of the control board with
its contactor array. I'll dig around and see if I can find it.
--
Christopher Robison
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://ohmbre.org <-- 1999 Isuzu Hombre + Z2K + Warp13!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/485 there are a few of
these. they are not worth nuch except to their
owners.
--- Mark Russo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
> I have a 1960 Henney Kilowatt. This is a Renault
> Dauphine that was converted to electric by the
> Eurkea company back in 1960.
> This particular car has 1,929 ORIGINAL miles on her.
> It has been kept in a garage for many years,
> although it has been outdoors from time to time but
> never for extended times.
> IF any rust is on the car it is minimal surface
> rust. The car is solid! This car has not been driven
> in many years. I was wondering what this car might
> be worth?? I really do not want to part with her
> but I am in a bad financial way and will soon be
> losing garage space. Are there clubs that deal with
> this sort of car? Maybe you can send me a list???
> The link below tells a little bit on the car. By
> the way, I understand there were ONLY eight of the
> 1960's that were converted to electric.
> This is the last line in the article:
> Of the documented 32 Henney Kilowatts produced, it
> is estimated
> that there are between four and eight still in
> existence. At least two of
> these documented are still driven periodically.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henney_Kilowatt
>
> THANKS, Mark
>
_________________________________________________________________
> See what youre getting into
before you go there.
> http://newlivehotmail.com
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for
today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.
http://get.games.yahoo.com/proddesc?gamekey=monopolyherenow
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Could you just put a Faraday cage around the controller and cables to the motor?
Brian
On 7/16/07, Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Bob Bath wrote:
> The interference (as I've heard discussed previously
> on the LIST) is due to e-meter interference, and in my
> case, an _inductive_ throttle.
This is the first time I have heard anyone claim that an E-Meter has
interfered with their radio.
> In my rig, even with proper E-meter installation,
> the AM is unusable, and the FM suffers some loss in
> certain spots of throttle travel.
Any interference that varies with the throttle position is related to
the motor controller and/or inductive throttle sensor.
> Your CD will should get no interference.
> If you don't have an E-meter, you may have no issues
> at all.
The E-Meter will not cause any problems. Mine certainly doesn't.
> --- Roger Daisley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > I will soon be adding a Kenwood CD player (with
> > AM/FM/XM Satellite radio) to my (soon to be completed)
> > '86 VW Cabriolet EV. I am using a Curtis 1221 motor
> > controller. I'm wondering about noise in the system
> > and wonder what precautions I make take, if any are
> > needed, possibly including shielded speaker wires.
The speaker wires are about the last thing you need worry about. The
noise will be conducted into the head unit on the 12V power lines or
radiated and picked up by the antenna input and/or the receiver
circuitry directly.
Try to keep the controller<->motor cables bundled together (tie wraps,
or these nifty clamps if you want something a bit nicer looking:
<http://www.evparts.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=722&product_id=3
622>). If you can keep the battery<->controller cables paired together,
that can only help (although it is less critical than the
controller<->motor cables since the battery loop sees a nearly DC load).
Try to keep the high current wiring away from the dash/radio area, and
away from the antenna and its cable.
If you have a noisy DC/DC, you will notice noise even when the car isn't
moving (controller idle), and you may have to try filtering the 12V DC
input to the head unit to reduce/eliminate this.
If you have noise when listening to the radio that varies with the
throttle position, this will be related to the controller and associated
traction wiring.
My EV keeps the controller<->motor cables as short as possible and
bundled together using the cable clamps from EV Parts. The battery
<->controller cables are reasonably close, though each is routed through
its own flexible nonmetallic conduit. I've had no problems with FM
reception and only hear any controller-related noise on AM when tuned
between stations; when tuned to a station there is no audible
interference from the controller. I do have an E-Meter in the car and
have had no EMI issues with it. I haven't yet tried my XM receiver in
the EV, but wouldn't expect any problems with it either.
Cheers,
Roger.
--
Brian in TX
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/960
http://www.evdub.blogspot.com/
It may seem like I am doing nothing, but on a cellular level I'm
really quite busy.
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi Steve,
My take is they are doing it differently. Firefly
lead coats a carbon/graphite structure; Axion replaces
a lead plate with a carbon plate or electrode. At
least that is the way I read the press releases.
The Axion approach gets into the ultracapacitor area.
What is called an asymmetric ultracap, meaning the two
electrodes are different. Most are symmetric, like
Maxwell, a carbon/carbon device. Using one carbon and
one metal electrode can increase the cell capacitance.
ESMA has asymmetric ultracaps using carbon/nickel.
High capacitance but 1.5 volts per cell. Those use
KOH. Using carbon/lead and acid is logical. Should
give higher cell voltage. And cost less.
I'd like to see some chemical genius do a
lithium/carbon asymmetrical ultracap or capacibattery
or batteracitor or whatever.
Regards,
Jeff
--- Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Recent POSTS in Bill Moors EV-World seem to be
> similar.
> Axion Developing Supercapacitor PbC 'Battery' a
> sponge activated
> charcoal negative electrode Lead-Acid battery with
> lots of glowing
> claims for long life, and quick chargers
>
> and Firefly seems to have the same thing...just
> being awarded some
> engineering award from The R&D 100 awards are
> presented by R&D Magazine.
>
> Any comments ? People in the Know ??
> --
> Steven S. Lough, Pres.
> Seattle EV Association
> 6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
> Seattle, WA 98115-7230
> Day: 206 850-8535
> Eve: 206 524-1351
> e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> web: http://www.seattleeva.org
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the
tools to get online.
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks EVeryone online and offline who replied.
I guess gmail or my setup of gmail prevents results I expected (my
verbiage to land in my inbox from [EMAIL PROTECTED]).
My bad.
Manny
Newbie (FNG) Rookie
http://EVorBust.blogspot.com
On 7/17/07, Dmitri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
yes
----- Original Message -----
From: "BrownGassyTurd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 11:07 AM
Subject: Test
> Hello World...
>
> Can anyone see this?
> Second posting.
> I have SET EV mail ack and nothing...
>
> Manny
> http://EVorBust.blogspot.com
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1117
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was looking for something I could salvage from an ICE at reasonable
cost. You tend to come up with expen$ive solutions. Not to say they
aren't better, but how much is a low vacuum indicator light worth? If
I am losing vacuum, I will hear the pump running.
On 7/17/07, Roland Wiench <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I use a vacuum switch made by Square D company that I pick up from a
electrical supply house. It is water proof in a cast aluminum enclosure and
is fully adjustable from 0 to 22 in.hg. It has two normally open contacts
and two normally close contacts.
GE and Westinghouse also makes a vacuum switch equal to the above.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "storm connors" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 7:31 AM
Subject: Re: necessity of other gauges (12V and vacuum)
> Anybody know what would trigger the brake light under a low vacuum
> condition? If it is true, there would be a sensor somewhere. (I don't
> know of one, but I would love to have one.
>
> On 7/17/07, Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > --- Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > So CT requires a vacuum gauge or low vacuum buzzer in every ICE
> > > vehicle
> > > that has power brakes too? After all any vacuum system can develop a
> > > leak or otherwise fail, and many ICE vehicles have come factory
> > > equipped
> > > with electric vacuum pumps for the brakes and so are subject to all
> > > the
> > > failure modes that your EV might have...
> > >
> >
> > I asked him the same thing. His response was that all cars have some
> > kind of brake warning light
> > and these are hooked in to vacuum. If you loose vacuum, the brake
> > warning light should come on. I
> > haven't tried it, but it sounds plausible. And since he conceded that I
> > could just install a
> > vacuum gage instead of a warning buzzer, I was happy. I found a nice
> > little 1.5" gage, I just have
> > to find a place to put it. Not a lot of room in my dash, and all the
> > automotive gage supplies are
> > for 2" and larger gages. But I do have 1.5" hole saw, I just have to
> > find something to put a hole
> > in.
> >
> > Dave Cover
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1059
>
>
--
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1059
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--- Begin Message ---
Last fall I picked up a "new" Sparrow to replace one that had burned
with my Shop. I had to put all new Optima YT's into it.
The big problem was that my job had moved so I couldn't use the
Sparrow for my commute, I was only making 1 or 2 short runs a week
with it. I was careful to keep the batteries charged (and didn't let
the Zivan cook them!). Several months ago I came down the driveway,
hit a bug mudhole, and broke the drive belt. Since I really didn't
want to crawl around in the mud and weeks to fix it, it has been
sitting at the side of my house since. I was checking the charge
every couple of weeks. About 3 months ago, I charged it, and it went
into thermal runaway. (HOT batteries, charger still chugging at full
power long after it should have.)
So I shut down the charger and hit the Big Red Switch. (disconnect everything)
Yesterday I finally moved it to my new shop, and have begun getting
it back to working condition.
Found the batteries DEAD. completely. This was rather surprising.
So I hooked up the new PFC-40, and as the batteries warmed up, it
reached a full 42A charge rate into them. I did this for a bit over
an hour. (no regs yet...) The batteries warmed up, and the charge
voltage actually dropped a bit.
Today I went out, and the pack was at 86 volts! after sitting all
night with the Big Red Switch thrown!
Have I wrecked my Optima YT's?
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
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--- Begin Message ---
Does anyone have some LPI Magne charge (car side receiver) parts for
sale? I am working on getting my system running again and would like to
pick-up any parts I can, especially, but not limited to, a paddle receiver
unit. Pls e-mail me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks, steve
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
on 7/17/07, storm connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Not to say they aren't better, but how much is a low vacuum indicator light
worth? If
I am losing vacuum, I will hear the pump running.
Same for me. I've been having a variety of vacuum pump problems, and
I have 2 indicators that I use: Hearing the pump running (or watching
the 12V battery gauge blip) and also the feel of the brake peddle. If
the pump doesn't run when I turn on the car, I hit the brake peddle
and see if I can depress it easily or not. In my case, even if the
brake peddle is stiff at first it will usually start working in a few
seconds. I spend enough time watching my other guages - don't need
another distraction :-)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Matt,
You know the flight from Anchorage to Orlando is brutal enough, but hey,
Florida just might be my first Pit stop. But then you'll have to make it to
Anchorage for the "Land of the Midnight Run" (if I can EVer get it set up) heh
heh.
Maybe withing the next couple years. I'll have to soften everyone up for the
EV racers :-)
Haven't heard from you much. Is your car running again?
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
----- Original Message -----
From: Matt Graham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 4:59 am
Subject: RE: A few pics of Mike Willmons motors
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Hey Mike,
>
> You don't ever have to worry about Jim having his own EV. He's been
> talkingabout it for a good couple of years now, but that's as far
> as it goes. He
> likes to remind me how slow 13.3 in the quarter mile is, though.
> Talk, talk,
> talk. . .then again, with the latest ETs, I'm starting to put
> myself asleep
> when I talk of mid 13-second quarter mile times.
>
> Those motors are beautiful and they clearly have no business ever
> beinginstalled in a vehicle. Shine a light on them up on the mantle
> and you won't
> even need the fireplace underneath them!
>
> Seriously, now that you've got the motors I'm sure it won't be a
> problem to
> bring the Pinto and yourself down to South Florida in January for
> BatteryBeach Burnout. See you there!
>
> Matt Graham
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Whoa step away from the fuse. The larger a fuse gets
the longer it takes to blow (much longer). Back in the
day my high school had an EV racing program and they
sent us to a day long safety class held at the
university. A big chunk of the discussion was
electrical safety and of course a topic of a few
slides was fusing. I foreget the exact quote, but I
think the time delay needed to blow a fuse is an
exponential function. We were running dual 1000 amp
custom built controllers at the time and had a 800 amp
fuse, they made us change it to a 600 amp before they
would let us race, it never blew.
Even if you have 4/0 cable 1600 amp is too large of a
fuse. Otmar recommends a 800 amp fuse for a Z2K. I'd
hate to see you burn up your car.
Later,
Rick
92 Saturn SC conversion
AZ Alt Fuel Plates "ZEROGAS"
> > Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 22:14:18 -0700
> From: David Wilker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: Anyone seen a 1600A fuse before?
> CC: Ian Hooper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> What is the voltage rating?
>
>
> David C. Wilker Jr.
> USAF (RET)
>
> ---- Ian Hooper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> With my plans to run dual motors and high power
> batteries in my
> current conversion, I figure peak current could be
> over 1000 amps. So
> I found a 1600A fuse on eBay, wihch arrived today.
> But good grief,
> it's.. implausibly massive:
>
> http://www.zeva.com.au/1600A.jpg
>
> Pictured next to a 600A fuse (which I used to think
> was huge) and an
> ordinary pencil, for reference. I should just run
> 2-3 of the 600As in
> parallel instead, that would be much lighter!
>
> -Ian
> > From: Ian Hooper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: Anyone seen a 1600A fuse before?
> Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 13:27:14 +0800
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>
> 600 volts max (well above my needs, but most of the
> seriously high
> current fuses seem to be quite high voltage too).
>
> Awfully expensive units too, remelectronics.com
> lists them at US
> $745ea! surplussalesco.com has one for $245.
>
> I got this one for $45+P&P, God bless eBay ;)
>
> -Ian
____________________________________________________________________________________
We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love
(and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.
http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/265
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My vote is for aluminum.
--- Jeff Major wrote:
>
> Hi Steve,
>
> My take is they are doing it differently. Firefly
> lead coats a carbon/graphite structure; Axion
> replaces
> a lead plate with a carbon plate or electrode. At
> least that is the way I read the press releases.
>
> The Axion approach gets into the ultracapacitor
> area.
> What is called an asymmetric ultracap, meaning the
> two
> electrodes are different. Most are symmetric, like
> Maxwell, a carbon/carbon device. Using one carbon
> and
> one metal electrode can increase the cell
> capacitance.
> ESMA has asymmetric ultracaps using carbon/nickel.
> High capacitance but 1.5 volts per cell. Those use
> KOH. Using carbon/lead and acid is logical. Should
> give higher cell voltage. And cost less.
>
> I'd like to see some chemical genius do a
> lithium/carbon asymmetrical ultracap or
> capacibattery
> or batteracitor or whatever.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
> --- Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Recent POSTS in Bill Moors EV-World seem to be
> > similar.
> > Axion Developing Supercapacitor PbC 'Battery' a
> > sponge activated
> > charcoal negative electrode Lead-Acid battery with
> > lots of glowing
> > claims for long life, and quick chargers
> >
> > and Firefly seems to have the same thing...just
> > being awarded some
> > engineering award from The R&D 100 awards are
> > presented by R&D Magazine.
> >
> > Any comments ? People in the Know ??
> > --
> > Steven S. Lough, Pres.
> > Seattle EV Association
> > 6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
> > Seattle, WA 98115-7230
> > Day: 206 850-8535
> > Eve: 206 524-1351
> > e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > web: http://www.seattleeva.org
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
> Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small
> Business gives you all the tools to get online.
> http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today!
http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
MIKE WILLMON wrote:
....you'll have to make it to Anchorage for the "Land of the Midnight Run" (if
I can EVer get it set up) heh heh. Maybe withing the next couple years. I'll have to
soften everyone up for the EV racers :-)
OK Mike, now listen up! What's this crap about 'next couple of years?
You've now been to a NEDRA EVent, you've hung with all us crazy amp
heads (you're now one of us), so you know we get things done, and we get
things done quickly. I can't wait a couple of years to come clean your
Crazy Pony's clock with White Zombie, so again, listen up. I 'need' an
excuse to return to your beautiful state and to the Anchorage area
again...I'm having withdrawals. You need to set a date for June-ish near
the summer solstice, if not right on target for it, then after you've
made the commitment, 'make' it happen! I'm coming back to Anchorage next
summer with White Zombie (if you can swing a shipping sponsor) to see
you put your money where your mouth is, dude! Racing through midnight
with it still feeling like the afternoon, will freak everyone out...but
they'll love it!
Hopefully, all realize I'm just ribbing Mikey here, but I 'am' serious
about him making a date for summer of '08 for many of us to head north
to Alaska for what will surely be an unforgettable EVent. Alaska is as
beautiful as all the postcards and travel features show it to be, and
more, It's simply breathtaking! Well....maybe excluding the frozen
wasteland Kuparik Camp I worked at in the Arctic Circle! As part of a
racing week up there, we'll have to include a field trip up and around
the Turnagain Arm:
http://www.alaskascenes.com/turnagain.html
This is probably one of the most beautiful places on earth!
I'm fairly certain that with enough prior notice (hint, set that date
NOW!) and with a shipper as a sponsor to get the EVs up there and back,
guys like Bill Dube, Dennis Berube, Shawn Lawless, Rod Wilde (Maniac
Mazda back on the track soon) and others with really fast EVs will want
to be part of this!
See Ya....John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "BrownGassyTurd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 11:07 AM
> > Subject: Test
> >
> >
> > > Hello World...
> > >
> > > Can anyone see this?
> > > Second posting.
> > > I have SET EV mail ack and nothing...
> > >
> > > Manny
> > > http://EVorBust.blogspot.com
> > > http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1117
> > >
If you are not getting a land line internet or DSL connection, which just
happen to me. Dial the phone to your server provider and when I did, the
E-mail listing came up.
On a telephone line there are may types of connections, relays contacts on
some systems and telephone grasshopper fuses. Sometime these connections
carbon up causing increase resistance. Many times a phone call to the
service provider will clear it up.
The ring voltage of some phones at 96 volts at 25 hz which will do the
trick.
Roland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ian Hooper wrote:
With my plans to run dual motors and high power batteries in my current
conversion, I figure peak current could be over 1000 amps. So I found a
1600A fuse on eBay, wihch arrived today. But good grief, it's..
implausibly massive:
You don't need anything close to a 1600 amp fuse. Your peak current may
be 1000 amps, but it can't flow for more than a few seconds or a battery
will fail, or a motor brush lead will melt, etc. So the fuse has to be
a much lower current, so it opens *before* something expensive breaks.
I should just run 2-3 of the 600As in parallel instead, that would be
much lighter!
Fuses in parallel won't work predictably. A fuse is basically a
resistor. Its resistance generates the heat that melts it. But that
resistance varies considerably between fuses, and with temperature, and
is greatly affected by the fuseholder. Two identical fuses in parallel
can easily have a 2:1 difference in the current they carry.
Just use *one* of your 600a fuses in the battery lead. It will still
carry 1000a for several seconds without blowing. But if there is a real
problem, it will blow soon enough to protect the other parts.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John Foster wrote:
the general public... They park, grab some things off the floor,
leave the keys on in the ignition. This happens in home garages, on
dealer lots, in repair shops. The car may be parked for weeks or
months, then the pack is shot.
I agree. It is one thing to kill a $100 12v car battery; it is quite
another to kill a $1000 pack! Since the cost of the error is so much
higher in an EV, it makes sense to have better safeguards.
Laptops, calculators, cameras, all modern battery operated things
go to sleep if the owner accidentally leaves them on.
Well, sort of. Most older electronics were totally off, or fully on. It
was pretty obvious if you left them running (lights, noise, heat, etc.)
And when off, they were completely off -- no parasitic loads at all.
Most newer stuff has no totally off function -- just sleep and fully on.
Modern cars will run down their 12v battery in a few weeks, just from
all the parasitic "sleep" loads. Laptops destroy their batteries if not
charged regularly due to the constant load of their electronics.
I think cars should go to sleep if the accelerator isn't pressed for
an hour. Then wake with the key off & on. Any other ideas?
This is a viable strategy, but it adds complexity. It can also become a
"secret mode" that does things the customer doesn't expect. Maybe he's
stuck in traffic for an hour without moving. When he finally gets ready
to step on the throttle, the car suddenly shuts off. It could lead to
trips to the dealer, fruitless searches for a problem, etc.
With lithium, nicad, or nimh batteries, there is no particular penalty
from letting them sit in a partially discharged state. So, it is
acceptable to have a low voltage cutout circuit that shuts down it the
pack falls to 10% or 20% state of charge.
My own preference is to design things to be more energy efficient in the
first place. There is no excuse for an electrical system that is so
inefficient that it quickly runs down a huge propulsion battery. Get rid
of the parasitic "sleep mode" loads. Fans shouldn't be running if
there's nothing to cool. Contactors shouldn't be pulled in when you're
not driving. Clocks can run for years on a coin-sized cell; they don't
need to waste 1000's of times more power like car clocks. Radios can run
on AA cells for days; if car radios were as efficient, they would run
for years on the propulsion batteries. Trip odometers and radio presets
can use nonvolatile memories that don't use any power.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
from <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Starting the end of August, I will be going back to school... a 28
mile trip... I need to buy a new battery pack...
What is your primary goal? Low cost? Long range? High performance? Pick
one! :-) Everything involves trade-offs -- you can maximize one without
minimizing the others.
For lowest cost, go with flooded lead-acid golf cart batteries. They are
the cheapest initially, and have the longest cycle life. This will force
a lower total pack voltage, as only 6v and 8v are available. If you had
twelve 12v batteries, this moves you to a 72v system with the same
number of 6v, or 96v with 8v batteries. If you can't crowd in more
batteries, use 8v as the Curtis 1231C won't work well at 72v. The lower
voltage will reduce your top speed and acceleration. Range will be
better due to the lower speed, and because the total pack weight will
probably increase.
For longest range, you need to crowd in the most weight of batteries you
can safely carry. Flooded, gel, or AGMs are all about the same; just go
for the most total weight that fits. You can pick the type based on your
secondary criteria. 12v floodeds or gels for longer life; 12v AGMs for
better performance. (It sounded like range isn't your goal).
For high performance (fast acceleration and hill-climbing, high speeds),
or if you will be discharging the pack in well under an hour, you'll
need to use AGM batteries. Expect higher prices and shorter life,
especially if you have no battery management system and an inexpensive
charger.
I was initially thinking of buddy pairing two together...
Buddy pairs and duplicate strings are special-case solutions. You add
complexity and cost to get some other benefit, such as to get battery
sizes that physically fit better, or because the battery you want for
some reason doesn't come in an appropriate size. If you can fit a single
string, it is always preferable.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
