Re: ChatGPT's rebuttal to Chomsky

[John Clark]

On Mon, Mar 13, 2023 at 12:55 AM spudboy100 via Everything List <
everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote:

*> I still need to know how it became conscious when just using chips and
> data*


I'll tell you just as soon as you tell me how 3 pounds of gray goo inside
of a vat made of bone that is sitting on your shoulders manages to be
conscious.

John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis

vmb

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Re: ChatGPT's rebuttal to Chomsky

[Jason Resch]

On Mon, Mar 13, 2023, 12:55 AM  wrote:

> Would it be more accurate to think that unless something is driven by
> need, as in an amygdala, it is not alive. This may be a different question
> than is it intelligent, is it conscious?
>

I think that's a reasonable definition of life. Even if the need is just
the need to exist and persist, which is the root need on which evolutionary
forces work.


> I still need to know how it became conscious when just using chips and
> data? Would this then favor a pantheist point of view, or even
> panentheistic  one?
>

Can you think without being conscious, can you understand without being
conscious, can you perceive without being conscious, can you feel with
being conscious, can you know without being conscious?

Unless you answered 'yes' to all these questions, there are some behaviors
and functions which necessitate consciousness. If we reproduce such
functions in a machine then we have made a conscious machine.

Jason



> Me don't know?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Jason Resch 
> To: Everything List 
> Sent: Mon, Mar 13, 2023 12:36 am
> Subject: Re: ChatGPT's rebuttal to Chomsky
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 13, 2023, 12:29 AM spudboy100 via Everything List <
> everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
> Does it really display intelligent behavior, and now you will need to
> define intelligent behavior with testable parameters. Do humans display
> intelligent behavior? How often, and how consistently? Many say crows do.
>
> This was part of my reason in hectoring JC on this. A neurobiologist
> tells, via research how parts of the human brain behave, and thus produce
> intelligence and (non-philosophically) consciousness. What part of the
> server farm enacts the illusion (I think) of intelligence?
>
>
> https://alwaysasking.com/when-will-ai-take-over/#What_is_Intelligence
>
> According to the agent-environment interaction model of intelligence,
> something is intelligent if it:
>
> “perceives its environment and interacts with it in a manner consistent
> with achieving a goal.”
>
> This definition captures the full spectrum of intelligent behavior,
> regardless of how simple or complex it is. It includes creatures from worms
> to humans, and machines from thermostats to chess playing AIs.
>
> Jason
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Stathis Papaioannou 
> To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Sun, Mar 12, 2023 9:29 pm
> Subject: Re: ChatGPT's rebuttal to Chomsky
>
>
>
> On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 at 12:18, Jason Resch  wrote:
>
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 12, 2023, 8:57 PM Stathis Papaioannou 
> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 at 04:12, Lawrence Crowell <
> goldenfieldquaterni...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Remember no matter haw complex an algorithm it is ultimately a lot of
> Boolean switching acting on what ever data is dumped into it.
>
>
> That means that if the entity displays intelligent behaviour, Boolean
> switching acting on whatever data is dumped into it can generate
> intelligent behaviour.
>
>
> Boolean logic gates (and, or, not) are universal. There's no finitely
> describable behavior that can't be replicated by the repeated application
> of boolean logic gates paired with a memory.
>
>
> Yes. But more generally, even from a position of ignorance, if you don’t
> believe that something made from electrical circuitry (or whatever) can
> display intelligent behaviour, and something made from electrical circuitry
> does in fact display intelligent behaviour, that means you were wrong.
>
> --
> Stathis Papaioannou
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> 
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Google's new PALM-E

[John Clark]

ChatGPT is not the only game in town:

Google's new PALM-E shocks the Industry


John K Clark

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Re: ChatGPT's rebuttal to Chomsky

[Telmo Menezes]

Am Mo, 13. Mär 2023, um 05:45, schrieb Brent Meeker:
> An operational test for intelligence requires that ability to act in the 
> world to achieve goals.  LLM's are intelligent in that they act to satisfy 
> prompts.  If you went to the beach and you said to a crab, "Write in the sand 
> a short poem about waves."  and the crab scratched out:
> 
> Born
> of wind and
> earth's embrace
> an ocean's memory of
> storms  beyond the horizon
> its undulating information uselessly inscribed
> in the meandering sand
> finds voice at last
> its fall a sigh a
> single syllable
> of surf
> 
> You'd think the crab was pretty smart.  An LLM could do that.  The only 
> reason for us thinking it is not intelligent is that we know how the LLM does 
> it.  When I first took a class in AI fifty years ago at UCLA. The Professor 
> explained that the definition of intelligence was "whatever computers can't 
> do yet." 

My first AI class was 27 years ago. The professor also mentioned that, but he 
started with the question: "why do we study artificial intelligence and not 
artificial stupidity?", and his answer was: "because stupidity is not a scarce 
resource".

Telmo

> 
> Brent
> 
> 
> 
> On 3/12/2023 9:29 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote:
>> Does it really display intelligent behavior, and now you will need to define 
>> intelligent behavior with testable parameters. Do humans display intelligent 
>> behavior? How often, and how consistently? Many say crows do.
>> 
>> This was part of my reason in hectoring JC on this. A neurobiologist tells, 
>> via research how parts of the human brain behave, and thus produce 
>> intelligence and (non-philosophically) consciousness. What part of the 
>> server farm enacts the illusion (I think) of intelligence? 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Stathis Papaioannou 
>> To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
>> Sent: Sun, Mar 12, 2023 9:29 pm
>> Subject: Re: ChatGPT's rebuttal to Chomsky
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 at 12:18, Jason Resch  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Sun, Mar 12, 2023, 8:57 PM Stathis Papaioannou  
>>> wrote:
 
 
 On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 at 04:12, Lawrence Crowell 
  wrote:
> Remember no matter haw complex an algorithm it is ultimately a lot of 
> Boolean switching acting on what ever data is dumped into it.
 
 That means that if the entity displays intelligent behaviour, Boolean 
 switching acting on whatever data is dumped into it can generate 
 intelligent behaviour. 
 
>>> 
>>> Boolean logic gates (and, or, not) are universal. There's no finitely 
>>> describable behavior that can't be replicated by the repeated application 
>>> of boolean logic gates paired with a memory.
>> 
>> Yes. But more generally, even from a position of ignorance, if you don’t 
>> believe that something made from electrical circuitry (or whatever) can 
>> display intelligent behaviour, and something made from electrical circuitry 
>> does in fact display intelligent behaviour, that means you were wrong.
>>> 
>> --
>> Stathis Papaioannou
>> -- 
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>> "Everything List" group.
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>> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>>  
>> 
>> .
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>>  
>> .
> 
> 
> 
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