subject:"Trump and his best friend"

I don't disagree that the Russian industrial system has major flaws. We see 
this in Putin's attack on Ukraine. But, I am not going to underestimate this 
enemy.Now, if you are correct in your assessment, it's one less major thing to 
worry about, especially, if our submarine fleet can still a successful 
retaliation against a Putin or Xi first strike. This, then, as defense analyst 
Martha Stewart would call, A Good Thing.


-Original Message-
From: John Clark 
To: spudboy...@aol.com
Cc: everything-list@googlegroups.com ; 
agrayson2...@gmail.com 
Sent: Sun, Apr 3, 2022 7:23 pm
Subject: Re: Trump and his best friend

On Sun, Apr 3, 2022 at 6:23 PM  wrote:


> Are hypersonic missiles a game changer?"

Yes without a doubt. But hypersonic missiles changed the game 80 years ago. not 
today. It might be different if they made a practical hypersonic scramjet 
engine, but that's not what they did. I don't see a shred of evidence the 
Russians have made any sort of technological breakthrough, and I certainly 
don't see the likelihood of them doing so anytime in the near future. Even in 
the best of times the Russians are not exactly noted for their fine 
workmanship, and that's what you need for high tech stuff, and these are not 
the best of times for Russia. They are under crippling sanctions, they can't 
import any microprocessors and the only semiconductors they can make internally 
would have been considered to be obsolete 20 years ago in America.  It reminds 
me of an old joke:

Question: What won't fit in your ass and won't buzz?Answer: A Russian made ass 
buzzer. 
 John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis 
sac

08y




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Re: Trump and his best friend

My view is that I can go down the list of who wants to control and direct 
things in the land, and who doesn't, and why? Both are dictatorial, but one is 
far, more, physically dangerous to the middle class. It's not a democracy, it's 
not a republic, it's an oligarchy, more precisely, it's a plutocracy run for 
the benefit of crony capitalists occupying both parties or aggregations. I am 
certain you wouldn't like my litany of complaints, justifying my statements 
concerning my former party. Understandable.Ideology is a stress maker, humans 
of all types have cognitive dissonance, including me, and my democrat close 
family members are also averse to comparing and contrasting, people, rulers, 
ect,. So it goes. Beyond this, for evidence, simply judge the behavior of 
public universities administrations and their promoting of student threats.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10625581/Yale-Law-DEFENDS-students-shouted-Ill-fight-b-tch-conservative-debater.html

I go to the UK media, often,  to find things out because the great thing about 
Britain is that they despise Americans with equanimity, and so will freely 
report anything awful about the US.  I love them for that. . 


-Original Message-
From: Alan Grayson 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Sun, Apr 3, 2022 5:58 pm
Subject: Re: Trump and his best friend

It's debatable whether, and to what extent, hypersonic missiles are game 
changers, but what isn't debatable is whether the Democratic Party is 
dictatorial -- it is NOT -- and whether the Republican Party represents a clear 
and present danger to democracy in America. -- it DOES. AG

On Sunday, April 3, 2022 at 3:45:25 PM UTC-6 spudb...@aol.com wrote:

Rationality can have nuances. "If you don't agree with me your"re crazy," is a 
learned political response, especially in the US. Just review on your own, 
online documents on whether physicists, and military bigwigs see hypersonic 
missiles as a ''game changer?' Decide for yourself. For human nature, across 
culture and psychologies, it is still a thing that those perceived as unable to 
successfully retaliate get killed. It it still a thing with a large swath of 
the species that 'the weak' are despised. Not my view, but one I accept as part 
of the human experience. We can all do better, but, let's not expect too much. 


-Original Message-
From: Alan Grayson 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Sun, Apr 3, 2022 11:35 am
Subject: Re: Trump and his best friend

MAD is predicated on the assumption that those in control of nuclear weapons 
are rational players. If they aren't, then it doesn't matter if they have 
hypersonic weapons. AG

On Sunday, April 3, 2022 at 9:21:20 AM UTC-6 spudb...@aol.com wrote:

Go ahead and be secure in the sure knowledge that the US is an impregnable 
Fortress America via it's subs. I hope you are correct and hope that Comrade Xi 
and Putin know this as well.

-Original Message-
From: Alan Grayson 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Sun, Apr 3, 2022 2:25 am
Subject: Re: Trump and his best friend

I can't argue with determined ignorance. Right NOW, at least one leg of the 
Triad is secure from a first strike. Moreover, the missiles are launched from 
below the surface, and each Trident carries 16 missiles, each with 8 
idepenently targeted warheads, for a total of 128 nuclear weapons, each many 
times the destructive power of a Hiroshima bomb, And this is only one attack 
submarine. I think we have a doxzen or more of those. Plus, there are always 
nuclear capable bombers in the air at all times. No sane person would bet 
against most of these weapons hitting their targets. AG

On Saturday, April 2, 2022 at 9:56:39 PM UTC-6 spudb...@aol.com wrote:

Xi and Putin would not have built these unless it gave them an advantage. The 
elites in the US have gambled on stability through globalism, and hope that one 
of the Triad of the US retaliatory capacity will survive to ensure a 2nd 
strike. Doesn't look plausible now. The speed and maneuverability of hypersonic 
missiles mean that subs which have to rise from the sea floor to launch are 
targeted.  

View Mother russia's own propaganda on 
thishttps://www.rbth.com/science-and-tech/334526-russia-unveils-answer-latest-missile

-Original Message-
From: Alan Grayson 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Sat, Apr 2, 2022 9:27 pm
Subject: Re: Trump and his best friend

Correction: I meant hypersonic, not supersonic in previous post. I wish you 
guys would cease referring to them as first-strike weapons. No nation today has 
first-strike capability that would invalidate Mutually Assured Destruction, aka 
MAD. AG

On Saturday, April 2, 2022 at 7:24:22 PM UTC-6 Alan Grayson wrote:

Why do you keep referring to supersonic weapons as first-strike? No nation 
today has a first-strike capability that would invalidate MAD. AG

On Saturday, April 2, 2022 at 5:51:37 PM UTC-6 spudb...@aol.com wrote:

category missiles of hypersonic speed circa 1960
https://en.wik

Re: Trump and his best friend

On Sun, Apr 3, 2022 at 6:23 PM  wrote:

*> Are hypersonic missiles a game changer?"*


Yes without a doubt. But hypersonic missiles changed the game 80 years ago.
not today. It might be different if they made a practical hypersonic
scramjet engine, but that's not what they did. I don't see a shred of
evidence the Russians have made any sort of technological breakthrough, and
I certainly don't see the likelihood of them doing so anytime in the near
future. Even in the best of times the Russians are not exactly noted for
their fine workmanship, and that's what you need for high tech stuff, and
these are not the best of times for Russia. They are under crippling
sanctions, they can't import any microprocessors and the only
semiconductors they can make internally would have been considered to be
obsolete 20 years ago in America.  It reminds me of an old joke:

Question: What won't fit in your ass and won't buzz?
Answer: A Russian made ass buzzer.

John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis

sac

08y

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Re: Trump and his best friend

If it's true that hypersonic missiles are really not a game changer and that 
the submarine leg of the retaliation triad is still holds, why would I 
complain? Now that's a big if for me, because who do I trust, who do I as Joe 
Sixpack rely on. Furthermore, in the scheme of things does my opinion matter? 
If you are correct, then this is one less thing for me to obsess over, so 
thanks!

Should we trust this proposal from the Atomic Scientists Bulletin? I dunno, 
looks clever. Is it wise or destabilizing? 
https://thebulletin.org/2021/04/deep-thoughts-how-moving-icbms-far-underground-will-make-the-whole-world-safer/





-Original Message-
From: Brent Meeker 
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sun, Apr 3, 2022 5:04 pm
Subject: Re: Trump and his best friend

 The hypersonic missile that Russia has claimed to have used in the Ukraine 
wouldn't go half the distance depicted in the diagram, it's claimed range is 
2,000km.  And even over that range it must either loft up out of the atmosphere 
or go a lot slower than Mach 5.  It just isn't big enough to have enough fuel 
to fly a low level that far and that fast.   The diagram shows "conventional 
ballistic missile" as "between Mach 1 and Mach 5" which is rediculous.  Even a 
V2 was faster than Mach 1.  Intercontinental ballistic missiles are more like 
Mach 20.
 
 The second problem with the diagram is any rocket launch can be detected 
immediately by satellites.  The US has stealth cruise missiles which can't be 
detected by satellite and which fly very low and so can't be seen by ground 
based radars until they are within seconds of arrival.
 
 Potatokid should ask his handler to provide him with more believable 
propaganda in the future.
 
 Brent
 
 On 4/3/2022 7:35 AM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote:
  
 
Followed your wiki article and then said, yeah it indicates an ICBM is way 
faster. Then I looked why are hypersonics such a threat? The answer is low 
altitude and great maneuverability. So scratch speed, and highlight trickiness. 
 
https://www.voanews.com/a/what-are-hypersonic-weapons-and-who-has-them-/6492459.html
 
  
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: John Clark 
 To: spudboy...@aol.com
 Cc: everything-list@googlegroups.com 
 Sent: Sun, Apr 3, 2022 12:37 am
 Subject: Re: Trump and his best friend
 
 On Sat, Apr 2, 2022 at 11:43 PM  wrote:

  
 > Um, None of the say, Minuteman 3 missiles or MIRV'd warheads is hypersonic, 
 
  BULLSHIT, it could reach Mach 23!  
  Minuteman III
  
  And in light of developments during the past month, it's doubly ridiculous 
you and your right wing buddies choose this moment to try to resurrect the myth 
of the invincible Russian army and panic the US into spending even more money 
on weapons. The US already spends more money on weapons then the next 9 highest 
spending countries COMBINED, and you think they're not spending enough?  And  
Russia's  "mighty" hypersonic missile sure as hell hasn't helped them much in 
Ukraine.   
  John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis  
 hsw   
  
  
  
 bsh
 
 
   
  
hyw
   
 
  
   
   
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Re: Trump and his best friend

Correction. The democrats are the more totalitarian than the republicans.Both 
are, if anyone notices, because they are hooked into a policy of censorship of 
speech, focus on special racial privileges' for some, want teachers to speak to 
K-3 children about their own sex lives, when in fact these same people cannot 
even teach arithmetic or spelling with any accuracy. Taxes for the rich are 
simply taxes for the middle class extended downwards, because 'social justice.' 
Weak on energy (you either build for solar or you don't and only an ideological 
swine tries to bundle everything into BBB to see if their enemies dare to turn 
it down? A majority dared but here they go again. Conversely they are hooked 
into Wall Street immensely, or what's a Hedge Fund for? You guys also suck big 
one on street criminals. 
Republican's? All we care about is also getting paid by defense contractors, 
oil companies, If we can move out of a crime zone this is all we care about. We 
seem good on police -involved shootings and long as the blood spray doesn't 
stain our suits. The climate? We think Climate is for the little people. We're 
ideological about abortion, and you either pray our way or you burn in the Lake 
O Fire. We like guns, and looking at the dem cities, we like these even more. 
Lets see if we can dodge Vlad's nukes another week? I may be being too hopeful?

-Original Message-
From: Alan Grayson 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Sun, Apr 3, 2022 1:52 pm
Subject: Re: Trump and his best friend

I don't recall you admitting your error when you categorically asserted that 
non-zero vacuum energy causes expansion, when, hypothetically, it could be 
positive. Or that the Casimir Effect is generally interpreted as a measure of 
the vacuum energy. AG
As for Spudboy, he seems deluded in concluding the Democratic Party is 
authoritarian when we see that Republican dominated state legislatures are 
going to great lengths to restrict the right to vote. AG

On Sunday, April 3, 2022 at 11:33:34 AM UTC-6 johnk...@gmail.com wrote:

On Sun, Apr 3, 2022 at 1:29 PM Alan Grayson  wrote:

> You speak that way because you're a piece of shit. You could have just 
> corrected my error. AG

I'll give you credit for one thing, unlike spudboy you have the intellectual 
honesty to admit you were wrong. 
John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis 
uxx

On Sunday, April 3, 2022 at 10:44:16 AM UTC-6 johnk...@gmail.com wrote:

On Sun, Apr 3, 2022 at 11:24 AM Alan Grayson  wrote:

> Where do you get the Mach 23 number?

I already gave my reference for that number in my post, but if you weren't 
paying attention I'll give it again:
Minuteman III

> The speed of sound at sea level is around 700 mph.

Yes.

> Are you saying an incoming ICBM warhead will be moving at 23 times that 
> number as it approaches its target?

Yes.

 > Implausible IMO. AG

Then your opinion is not worth a bucket of warm spit.  
John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis 

bws
tcs

On Sunday, April 3, 2022 at 8:52:48 AM UTC-6 johnk...@gmail.com wrote:

On Sun, Apr 3, 2022 at 10:34 AM  wrote:

> Followed your wiki article and then said, yeah it indicates an ICBM is way 
> faster. Then I looked why are hypersonics such a threat? The answer is low 
> altitude and great maneuverability.

Modern ICBMs contain many maneuverable reentry vehicles, one trident missile 
has 8 and can hit 8 different Russian cities with pinpoint accuracy and utterly 
obliterate them. And those maneuverable hypersonic missiles are moving at Mach 
23, so you'll have to forgive me if I don't get all hot and bothered about a 
Russian missile that is moving at Mach 7. And by the way, the USA holds the 
world record for having built by far the largest maneuverable hypersonic 
missile of all time, it was called the Space Shuttle. The Space Shuttle was 
also a turkey but that's irrelevant for this discussion. 
 John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis 
tcs

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Re: Trump and his best friend

You, really believe that man landed on the moon in 1969? Silly human. It was 
all done on a stage in Hollywood, by the Pentagon using director George Pal, 
whose 1960 film The Time Machine, impressed officials so much that

-Original Message-
From: John Clark 
To: 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List 
Sent: Sun, Apr 3, 2022 1:12 pm
Subject: Re: Trump and his best friend

And by the way, the Apollo astronauts reached Mach 36 when they hit the Earth's 
atmosphere back in 1968. 
John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis 
a8a
On Sun, Apr 3, 2022 at 12:43 PM John Clark  wrote:

On Sun, Apr 3, 2022 at 11:24 AM Alan Grayson  wrote:

> Where do you get the Mach 23 number?

I already gave my reference for that number in my post, but if you weren't 
paying attention I'll give it again:
Minuteman III

> The speed of sound at sea level is around 700 mph.

Yes.

> Are you saying an incoming ICBM warhead will be moving at 23 times that 
> number as it approaches its target?

Yes.

 > Implausible IMO. AG

Then your opinion is not worth a bucket of warm spit.  
John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis 

bws
tcs

On Sunday, April 3, 2022 at 8:52:48 AM UTC-6 johnk...@gmail.com wrote:

On Sun, Apr 3, 2022 at 10:34 AM  wrote:

> Followed your wiki article and then said, yeah it indicates an ICBM is way 
> faster. Then I looked why are hypersonics such a threat? The answer is low 
> altitude and great maneuverability.

Modern ICBMs contain many maneuverable reentry vehicles, one trident missile 
has 8 and can hit 8 different Russian cities with pinpoint accuracy and utterly 
obliterate them. And those maneuverable hypersonic missiles are moving at Mach 
23, so you'll have to forgive me if I don't get all hot and bothered about a 
Russian missile that is moving at Mach 7. And by the way, the USA holds the 
world record for having built by far the largest maneuverable hypersonic 
missile of all time, it was called the Space Shuttle. The Space Shuttle was 
also a turkey but that's irrelevant for this discussion. 
 John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis 
tcs

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Re: Trump and his best friend

John, ignore me and my Trumpy like arrogance and look for thyself to see what 
Mil experts and science types say about hypersonics in the form of a question. 
'Are hypersonic missiles a game changer?" My reading of the articles that seems 
opinions are mixed. I also am skeptical of many published articles because, 
have I ever heard of the author before? Are such authors funded one way or the 
other from defense contractors looking for sales? Are they from Putin or Xi 
calming things down because 'no worries, no worries here!"
There's a lot mil secrets regarding US submarine counterstikes, but Trident, 
Ohio, and Virginia class subs gotta have their limitations to work. The 
opinions go back and forth. Here is one from the Bureau of Atomic Scientists, 
taking the conversation in a whole different direction with this 2021 proposal. 
It may even be accurate?!! 
https://thebulletin.org/2021/04/deep-thoughts-how-moving-icbms-far-underground-will-make-the-whole-world-safer/

-Original Message-
From: John Clark 
To: spudboy...@aol.com
Cc: everything-list@googlegroups.com ; 
agrayson2...@gmail.com 
Sent: Sun, Apr 3, 2022 12:44 pm
Subject: Re: Trump and his best friend

On Sun, Apr 3, 2022 at 11:24 AM  wrote:

> I do know that these subs can't for example fire from the bottom of the 
> Marianas Trench. 

Is that really the best retort you could come up with? You don't have the 
intellectual integrity to just admit that you were wrong?  
John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis 

-Original Message-
From: John Clark 
To: 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List 
Cc: agrayson2...@gmail.com 
Sent: Sun, Apr 3, 2022 7:59 am
Subject: Re: Trump and his best friend

On Sat, Apr 2, 2022 at 11:56 PM spudboy100 via Everything List 
 wrote:

> The elites in the US have gambled on stability through globalism, and hope 
> that one of the Triad of the US retaliatory capacity will survive to ensure a 
> 2nd strike. Doesn't look plausible now

Don't be ridiculous! Just one Ohio class ballistic submarine has 14 Trident 
missiles and each of those 14 missiles has 8 maneuverable hypersonic reentry 
vehicles that can place a 475 kt H-bomb (about 20 times as powerful as the 
bombs the destroyed Hiroshima and Nagasaki) with pinpoint accuracy to 8 Russian 
cities. So one Ohio class submarine is enough to kill twice as many people as 
died in World War II and send Russia back to the Stone Age, and the USA has 14 
of them. And the US is currently building 12 even more powerful ballistic 
submarines, the Columbia class. And in addition the US has 1000 land-based 
minuteman missiles that are even more powerful than the Trident. And it has 
thousands of airplanes capable of delivering H bombs.  How much is enough? At 
some point you'll just be rearranging the rubble of Russian cities that have 
already been destroyed, and even an infinite amount of potential destructive 
capacity won't be enough to deter someone who is totally irrational. 

> The speed and maneuverability of hypersonic missiles mean that subs which 
> have to rise from the sea floor to launch are targeted.  

Do your goddamn homework! You're 61 years out of date, even the Polaris 
submarine, which went into service in 1961, could fire ballistic missiles while 
still submerged; and yes they were hypersonic.  
John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis 
dbr

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Re: Trump and his best friend

It's debatable whether, and to what extent, hypersonic missiles are game 
changers, but what isn't debatable is whether the Democratic Party is 
dictatorial -- it is NOT -- and whether the Republican Party represents a 
clear and present danger to democracy in America. -- it DOES. AG

On Sunday, April 3, 2022 at 3:45:25 PM UTC-6 spudb...@aol.com wrote:

> Rationality can have nuances. "If you don't agree with me your"re crazy," 
> is a learned political response, especially in the US. Just review on your 
> own, online documents on whether physicists, and military bigwigs see 
> hypersonic missiles as a ''game changer?' Decide for yourself. For human 
> nature, across culture and psychologies, it is still a thing that those 
> perceived as unable to successfully retaliate get killed. It it still a 
> thing with a large swath of the species that 'the weak' are despised. Not 
> my view, but one I accept as part of the human experience. We can all do 
> better, but, let's not expect too much. 
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Alan Grayson 
> To: Everything List 
> Sent: Sun, Apr 3, 2022 11:35 am
> Subject: Re: Trump and his best friend
>
> MAD is predicated on the assumption that those in control of nuclear 
> weapons are rational players. If they aren't, then it doesn't matter if 
> they have hypersonic weapons. AG
>
> On Sunday, April 3, 2022 at 9:21:20 AM UTC-6 spudb...@aol.com wrote:
>
> Go ahead and be secure in the sure knowledge that the US is an impregnable 
> Fortress America via it's subs. I hope you are correct and hope that 
> Comrade Xi and Putin know this as well.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Alan Grayson 
> To: Everything List 
> Sent: Sun, Apr 3, 2022 2:25 am
> Subject: Re: Trump and his best friend
>
> I can't argue with determined ignorance. Right NOW, at least one leg of 
> the Triad is secure from a first strike. Moreover, the missiles are 
> launched from *below* the surface, and each Trident carries 16 missiles, 
> each with 8 idepenently targeted warheads, for a total of 128 nuclear 
> weapons, each many times the destructive power of a Hiroshima bomb, And 
> this is only one attack submarine. I think we have a doxzen or more of 
> those. Plus, there are always nuclear capable bombers in the air at all 
> times. No sane person would bet against most of these weapons hitting their 
> targets. AG
>
> On Saturday, April 2, 2022 at 9:56:39 PM UTC-6 spudb...@aol.com wrote:
>
> Xi and Putin would not have built these unless it gave them an advantage. 
> The elites in the US have gambled on stability through globalism, and hope 
> that one of the Triad of the US retaliatory capacity will survive to ensure 
> a 2nd strike. Doesn't look plausible now. The speed and maneuverability of 
> hypersonic missiles mean that subs which have to rise from the sea floor to 
> launch are targeted.  
>
> View Mother russia's own propaganda on this 
>
> https://www.rbth.com/science-and-tech/334526-russia-unveils-answer-latest-missile
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Alan Grayson 
> To: Everything List 
> Sent: Sat, Apr 2, 2022 9:27 pm
> Subject: Re: Trump and his best friend
>
> Correction: I meant *hypersonic*, not supersonic in previous post. I wish 
> you guys would cease referring to them as first-strike weapons. No nation 
> today has first-strike capability that would invalidate Mutually Assured 
> Destruction, aka MAD. AG
>
> On Saturday, April 2, 2022 at 7:24:22 PM UTC-6 Alan Grayson wrote:
>
> Why do you keep referring to supersonic weapons as first-strike? No nation 
> today has a first-strike capability that would invalidate MAD. AG
>
> On Saturday, April 2, 2022 at 5:51:37 PM UTC-6 spudb...@aol.com wrote:
>
> category missiles of hypersonic speed circa 1960
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nike_Hercules 
> Looks to be only 2778 mph
>
> category Joey catching up to Trump
> Trump 2018
>
> https://www.reuters.com/article/us-nato-summit-pipeline/trump-lashes-germany-over-gas-pipeline-deal-calls-it-russias-captive-idUSKBN1K10VI
>
> Biden 2022 March
>
> https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/mar/25/biden-and-eu-agree-landmark-gas-deal-to-break-kremlin-hold
>
> Trump asked Merkel why are you buying Putin's gas instead of US? Merkel 
> wanted Germany influence Vlad. Bad move. 
>
> category who has what weapons?
> Sanctions? Who knows but please be advised that Putin & Xi went ahead with 
> producing hypersonic 1st strike weapons and have these installed already. 
> The US, no.
> XI:
>
> https://www.defensenews.com/global/asia-pacific/2021/03/15/hypersonic-and-directed-energy-weapons-who-has-them-and-whos-winning-the-race-in-the-asia-pacific/
>
> Putin:
> https://www

Re: Trump and his best friend

On Sun, Apr 3, 2022 at 5:48 PM Alan Grayson  wrote:

*> I thought you claimed that the Dark Energy is negative. Did I misread
> you? AG *
>

To do what it needs to do, accelerate the universe, Dark Energy has to
have negative
pressure but positive energy, perhaps if I'd said "tension" instead of
"negative pressure" it would've been less confusing.

John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis

edp

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Re: Trump and his best friend



On Sunday, April 3, 2022 at 1:14:40 PM UTC-6 johnk...@gmail.com wrote:

> On Sun, Apr 3, 2022 at 1:52 PM Alan Grayson  wrote:
>
> *> I don't recall you admitting your error when you categorically asserted 
>> that non-zero vacuum energy causes expansion,*
>
>  
> That's because it's not an error, if vacuum energy was non-zero, and 
> apparently it is, then it would cause the universe to expand. 
>

But you also write that the Casimir Effect shows the existence of non-zero 
vacuum energy which does NOT cause expansion. Thus, your general statement 
about what vacuum energy does, is confusing. It seems to need some 
refinement. Additionally, I thought you claimed that the Dark Energy is 
negative. Did I misread you? AG 

The problem is when physicists use quantum mechanics to calculate what the 
> strength of that energy should be they get a number that is 10^120 times 
> too large to agree with the observations astronomers have made. Nobody 
> understands the mechanism behind Dark Energy, it's the greatest mystery in 
> physics.   
>
> *> when, hypothetically, it could be positive.*
>
>
> Whatever causes the universe to accelerate it must have positive energy 
> and negative pressure (tension) and must exist everywhere, be spread out 
> evenly and not be lumpy. 
>  
>
>> *> Or that the Casimir Effect is generally interpreted as a measure of 
>> the vacuum energy. AG*
>
>
> The Casimir Effect demonstrates that even empty space can have energy, and 
> physicist understand it very well, their quantum mechanical calculations of 
> how strong the Casimir Effect should be agree very closely with 
> observation, but it can't be what Dark Energy is because the Casimir Effect 
> is very short range, when the distances become longer than a few 
> nanometers the strength of a Casimir Effect drops to zero, while Dark 
> Energy is only relevant  on the cosmic scale of billions of light years. 
>
>  John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis 
>  
>
>
>
>

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Re: Trump and his best friend

Rationality can have nuances. "If you don't agree with me your"re crazy," is a 
learned political response, especially in the US. Just review on your own, 
online documents on whether physicists, and military bigwigs see hypersonic 
missiles as a ''game changer?' Decide for yourself. For human nature, across 
culture and psychologies, it is still a thing that those perceived as unable to 
successfully retaliate get killed. It it still a thing with a large swath of 
the species that 'the weak' are despised. Not my view, but one I accept as part 
of the human experience. We can all do better, but, let's not expect too much. 

-Original Message-
From: Alan Grayson 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Sun, Apr 3, 2022 11:35 am
Subject: Re: Trump and his best friend

MAD is predicated on the assumption that those in control of nuclear weapons 
are rational players. If they aren't, then it doesn't matter if they have 
hypersonic weapons. AG

On Sunday, April 3, 2022 at 9:21:20 AM UTC-6 spudb...@aol.com wrote:

Go ahead and be secure in the sure knowledge that the US is an impregnable 
Fortress America via it's subs. I hope you are correct and hope that Comrade Xi 
and Putin know this as well.

-Original Message-
From: Alan Grayson 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Sun, Apr 3, 2022 2:25 am
Subject: Re: Trump and his best friend

I can't argue with determined ignorance. Right NOW, at least one leg of the 
Triad is secure from a first strike. Moreover, the missiles are launched from 
below the surface, and each Trident carries 16 missiles, each with 8 
idepenently targeted warheads, for a total of 128 nuclear weapons, each many 
times the destructive power of a Hiroshima bomb, And this is only one attack 
submarine. I think we have a doxzen or more of those. Plus, there are always 
nuclear capable bombers in the air at all times. No sane person would bet 
against most of these weapons hitting their targets. AG

On Saturday, April 2, 2022 at 9:56:39 PM UTC-6 spudb...@aol.com wrote:

Xi and Putin would not have built these unless it gave them an advantage. The 
elites in the US have gambled on stability through globalism, and hope that one 
of the Triad of the US retaliatory capacity will survive to ensure a 2nd 
strike. Doesn't look plausible now. The speed and maneuverability of hypersonic 
missiles mean that subs which have to rise from the sea floor to launch are 
targeted.  

View Mother russia's own propaganda on 
thishttps://www.rbth.com/science-and-tech/334526-russia-unveils-answer-latest-missile

-Original Message-
From: Alan Grayson 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Sat, Apr 2, 2022 9:27 pm
Subject: Re: Trump and his best friend

Correction: I meant hypersonic, not supersonic in previous post. I wish you 
guys would cease referring to them as first-strike weapons. No nation today has 
first-strike capability that would invalidate Mutually Assured Destruction, aka 
MAD. AG

On Saturday, April 2, 2022 at 7:24:22 PM UTC-6 Alan Grayson wrote:

Why do you keep referring to supersonic weapons as first-strike? No nation 
today has a first-strike capability that would invalidate MAD. AG

On Saturday, April 2, 2022 at 5:51:37 PM UTC-6 spudb...@aol.com wrote:

category missiles of hypersonic speed circa 1960
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nike_HerculesLooks to be only 2778 mph
category Joey catching up to TrumpTrump 
2018https://www.reuters.com/article/us-nato-summit-pipeline/trump-lashes-germany-over-gas-pipeline-deal-calls-it-russias-captive-idUSKBN1K10VI
Biden 2022 
Marchhttps://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/mar/25/biden-and-eu-agree-landmark-gas-deal-to-break-kremlin-hold
Trump asked Merkel why are you buying Putin's gas instead of US? Merkel wanted 
Germany influence Vlad. Bad move. 
category who has what weapons?Sanctions? Who knows but please be advised that 
Putin & Xi went ahead with producing hypersonic 1st strike weapons and have 
these installed already. The US, 
no.XI:https://www.defensenews.com/global/asia-pacific/2021/03/15/hypersonic-and-directed-energy-weapons-who-has-them-and-whos-winning-the-race-in-the-asia-pacific/

Putin:https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/20/what-are-hypersonic-missiles-and-why-is-russia-using-them-kinzhal-ukraine
Biden:https://www.defensenews.com/air/2022/03/14/what-should-be-the-united-states-next-move-on-hypersonic-tech/

Not yet if ever. 

-Original Message-
From: John Clark 
To: spudb...@aol.com
Cc: everyth...@googlegroups.com 
Sent: Sat, Apr 2, 2022 4:35 am
Subject: Re: Trump and his best friend

On Fri, Apr 1, 2022 at 8:44 PM  wrote:

> Joey and his team are being forced to play catchup with Trumpo's  policies,

I have no idea what you mean by that.  

> I understand the history of Peenemunde and all that.

Do you? Then you know that hypersonic missiles are nothing new. 

 > We also had the tech to build hypersonic nukes with the less old, but still 
 > old, rockets of 1960,

Had? I have no idea what you mea

Re: Trump and his best friend

2022-04-03 Thread Brent Meeker

Sure. Low Earth orbit is about 17,000mph and a long range ballistic
missile is almost in orbit.

Brent

On 4/3/2022 8:24 AM, Alan Grayson wrote:
Where do you get the Mach 23 number? The speed of sound at sea level
is around 700 mph. Are you saying an incoming ICBM warhead will be
moving at 23 times that number as it approaches its target?
Implausible IMO. AG

On Sunday, April 3, 2022 at 8:52:48 AM UTC-6 johnk...@gmail.com wrote:

On Sun, Apr 3, 2022 at 10:34 AM wrote:

/> Followed your wiki article and then said, yeah it indicates
an ICBM is way faster. Then I looked why are hypersonics such
a threat? The answer is low altitude and great maneuverability./

Modern ICBMs contain many maneuverable reentry vehicles, one
trident missile has 8 and can hit 8 different Russian cities with
pinpoint accuracy and utterly obliterate them. And those
maneuverable hypersonic missiles are moving at Mach 23, so you'll
have to forgive me if I don't get all hot and bothered about a
Russian missile that is moving at Mach 7. And by the way, the USA
holds the world record for having built by far the largest
maneuverable hypersonic missile of all time, it was called the
Space Shuttle. The Space Shuttle was also a turkey but that's
irrelevant for this discussion.
John K Clark See what's on my new list at Extropolis

tcs

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Re: Trump and his best friend

2022-04-03 Thread Brent Meeker

The hypersonic missile that Russia has claimed to have used in the 
Ukraine wouldn't go half the distance depicted in the diagram, it's 
claimed range is 2,000km.  And even over that range it must either loft 
up out of the atmosphere or go a lot slower than Mach 5.  It just isn't 
big enough to have enough fuel to fly a low level that far and that 
fast.   The diagram shows "conventional ballistic missile" as "between 
Mach 1 and Mach 5" which is rediculous.  Even a V2 was faster than Mach 
1.  Intercontinental ballistic missiles are more like Mach 20.


The second problem with the diagram is any rocket launch can be detected 
immediately by satellites.  The US has stealth cruise missiles which 
can't be detected by satellite and which fly very low and so can't be 
seen by ground based radars until they are within seconds of arrival.


Potatokid should ask his handler to provide him with more believable 
propaganda in the future.


Brent

On 4/3/2022 7:35 AM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote:
Followed your wiki article and then said, yeah it indicates an ICBM is 
way faster. Then I looked why are hypersonics such a threat? The 
answer is low altitude and great maneuverability. So scratch speed, 
and highlight trickiness.

https://www.voanews.com/a/what-are-hypersonic-weapons-and-who-has-them-/6492459.html




-Original Message-
From: John Clark 
To: spudboy...@aol.com
Cc: everything-list@googlegroups.com 
Sent: Sun, Apr 3, 2022 12:37 am
Subject: Re: Trump and his best friend

On Sat, Apr 2, 2022 at 11:43 PM  wrote:

> Um, None of the say, Minuteman 3 missiles or MIRV'd warheads is
hypersonic,


*BULLSHIT*, it could reach Mach 23!

*Minuteman III <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGM-30_Minuteman>
*

And in light of developments during the past month, it's doubly 
ridiculous you and your right wing buddies choose this moment to try 
to resurrect the myth of the invincible Russian army and panic the US 
into spending even more money on weapons. The US already spends more 
money on weapons then the next 9 highest spending countries COMBINED, 
and you think they're not spending enough?  And  Russia's  "mighty" 
hypersonic missile sure as hell hasn't helped them much in Ukraine.


John K Clark    See what's on my new list at Extropolis 
<https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis>


hsw




bsh



hyw


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Re: Trump and his best friend

2022-04-03 Thread Jesse Mazer

John Baez notes in bullet point #3 and #4 at
https://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/vacuum.html that the calculation which
yields a huge but finite value for vacuum energy (about 10^122 times larger
than the value inferred from cosmological measurements, according to his
numbers) involves some simplifying assumptions that physicists have good
reason to think are unrealistic, like assuming "no interactions between
modes", and the more basic point that if you ignore gravity as is normally
done in quantum field theory calculations (including the one that purports
to calculate the vacuum energy), you're free to add an arbitrary constant
to your definition of energy density without changing any predictions about
measurable (non-gravitational) results. So I think the issue is not so much
something like "quantum field theory clearly predicts results that are
totally incorrect, and no one knows why", it's more along the lines of "no
one knows how to calculate how the energy of the quantum vacuum should
contribute to the curvature of spacetime, you'd need a theory of quantum
gravity for that."

On Sun, Apr 3, 2022 at 3:14 PM John Clark  wrote:

> On Sun, Apr 3, 2022 at 1:52 PM Alan Grayson 
> wrote:
>
> *> I don't recall you admitting your error when you categorically asserted
>> that non-zero vacuum energy causes expansion,*
>
>
> That's because it's not an error, if vacuum energy was non-zero, and
> apparently it is, then it would cause the universe to expand. The problem
> is when physicists use quantum mechanics to calculate what the strength of
> that energy should be they get a number that is 10^120 times too large to
> agree with the observations astronomers have made. Nobody understands the
> mechanism behind Dark Energy, it's the greatest mystery in physics.
>
> *> when, hypothetically, it could be positive.*
>
>
> Whatever causes the universe to accelerate it must have positive energy
> and negative pressure (tension) and must exist everywhere, be spread out
> evenly and not be lumpy.
>
>
>> *> Or that the Casimir Effect is generally interpreted as a measure of
>> the vacuum energy. AG*
>
>
> The Casimir Effect demonstrates that even empty space can have energy, and
> physicist understand it very well, their quantum mechanical calculations of
> how strong the Casimir Effect should be agree very closely with
> observation, but it can't be what Dark Energy is because the Casimir Effect
> is very short range, when the distances become longer than a few
> nanometers the strength of a Casimir Effect drops to zero, while Dark
> Energy is only relevant  on the cosmic scale of billions of light years.
>
>  John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis
> 
>
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Everything List" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAJPayv3xnTn1ZY%2BS8aHyAG02gRpLjtdMjxMygRe6-C_EAGo2eQ%40mail.gmail.com
> 
> .
>

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Re: Trump and his best friend

On Sun, Apr 3, 2022 at 1:52 PM Alan Grayson  wrote:

*> I don't recall you admitting your error when you categorically asserted
> that non-zero vacuum energy causes expansion,*

That's because it's not an error, if vacuum energy was non-zero, and
apparently it is, then it would cause the universe to expand. The problem
is when physicists use quantum mechanics to calculate what the strength of
that energy should be they get a number that is 10^120 times too large to
agree with the observations astronomers have made. Nobody understands the
mechanism behind Dark Energy, it's the greatest mystery in physics.

*> when, hypothetically, it could be positive.*

Whatever causes the universe to accelerate it must have positive energy and
negative pressure (tension) and must exist everywhere, be spread out evenly
and not be lumpy.

> *> Or that the Casimir Effect is generally interpreted as a measure of the
> vacuum energy. AG*

The Casimir Effect demonstrates that even empty space can have energy, and
physicist understand it very well, their quantum mechanical calculations of
how strong the Casimir Effect should be agree very closely with
observation, but it can't be what Dark Energy is because the Casimir Effect
is very short range, when the distances become longer than a few nanometers
the strength of a Casimir Effect drops to zero, while Dark Energy is only
relevant  on the cosmic scale of billions of light years.

 John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis

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Re: Trump and his best friend

I don't recall you admitting your error when you categorically asserted 
that non-zero vacuum energy causes expansion, when, hypothetically, it 
could be positive. Or that the Casimir Effect is generally interpreted as a 
measure of the vacuum energy. AG

As for Spudboy, he seems deluded in concluding the Democratic Party is 
authoritarian when we see that Republican dominated state legislatures are 
going to great lengths to restrict the right to vote. AG

On Sunday, April 3, 2022 at 11:33:34 AM UTC-6 johnk...@gmail.com wrote:

> On Sun, Apr 3, 2022 at 1:29 PM Alan Grayson  wrote:
>
>
>> *> You speak that way because you're a piece of shit. You could have just 
>> corrected my error. AG*
>
>
> I'll give you credit for one thing, unlike spudboy you have the 
> intellectual honesty to admit you were wrong. 
>
> John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis 
>  
> uxx
>
>  
>
>>
>> On Sunday, April 3, 2022 at 10:44:16 AM UTC-6 johnk...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, Apr 3, 2022 at 11:24 AM Alan Grayson  
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> *> Where do you get the Mach 23 number?*
>>>
>>>
>>> I already gave my reference for that number in my post, but if you 
>>> weren't paying attention I'll give it again:
>>>
>>> *Minuteman III *
>>>
>>> > The speed of sound at sea level is around 700 mph.
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes.
>>>
>>> *> Are you saying an incoming ICBM warhead will be moving at 23 times 
 that number as it approaches its target?*
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes.
>>>
>>>
 * > Implausible IMO. AG*
>>>
>>>
>>> Then your opinion is not worth a bucket of warm spit.  
>>>
>>> John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis 
>>>  
>>>
>>> bws
>>> tcs
>>>
>>>
>>>  
>>>

 On Sunday, April 3, 2022 at 8:52:48 AM UTC-6 johnk...@gmail.com wrote:

> On Sun, Apr 3, 2022 at 10:34 AM  wrote:
>
> *> Followed your wiki article and then said, yeah it indicates an ICBM 
>> is way faster. Then I looked why are hypersonics such a threat? The 
>> answer 
>> is low altitude and great maneuverability.*
>>
>
> Modern ICBMs contain many maneuverable reentry vehicles, one trident 
> missile has 8 and can hit 8 different Russian cities with pinpoint 
> accuracy 
> and utterly obliterate them. And those maneuverable hypersonic missiles 
> are 
> moving at Mach 23, so you'll have to forgive me if I don't get all hot 
> and 
> bothered about a Russian missile that is moving at Mach 7. And by the 
> way, 
> the USA holds the world record for having built by far the largest 
> maneuverable hypersonic missile of all time, it was called the Space 
> Shuttle. The Space Shuttle was also a turkey but that's irrelevant for 
> this 
> discussion. 
>  
> John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis 
>  
> tcs
>
>
 -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "Everything List" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com.
>>
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/2c09f501-5cef-415c-afca-e255d12403een%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: Trump and his best friend

On Sun, Apr 3, 2022 at 1:29 PM Alan Grayson  wrote:


> *> You speak that way because you're a piece of shit. You could have just
> corrected my error. AG*


I'll give you credit for one thing, unlike spudboy you have the
intellectual honesty to admit you were wrong.

John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis

uxx



>
> On Sunday, April 3, 2022 at 10:44:16 AM UTC-6 johnk...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> On Sun, Apr 3, 2022 at 11:24 AM Alan Grayson  wrote:
>>
>> *> Where do you get the Mach 23 number?*
>>
>>
>> I already gave my reference for that number in my post, but if you
>> weren't paying attention I'll give it again:
>>
>> *Minuteman III *
>>
>> > The speed of sound at sea level is around 700 mph.
>>
>>
>> Yes.
>>
>> *> Are you saying an incoming ICBM warhead will be moving at 23 times
>>> that number as it approaches its target?*
>>
>>
>> Yes.
>>
>>
>>> * > Implausible IMO. AG*
>>
>>
>> Then your opinion is not worth a bucket of warm spit.
>>
>> John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis
>> 
>>
>> bws
>> tcs
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> On Sunday, April 3, 2022 at 8:52:48 AM UTC-6 johnk...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 On Sun, Apr 3, 2022 at 10:34 AM  wrote:

 *> Followed your wiki article and then said, yeah it indicates an ICBM
> is way faster. Then I looked why are hypersonics such a threat? The answer
> is low altitude and great maneuverability.*
>

 Modern ICBMs contain many maneuverable reentry vehicles, one trident
 missile has 8 and can hit 8 different Russian cities with pinpoint accuracy
 and utterly obliterate them. And those maneuverable hypersonic missiles are
 moving at Mach 23, so you'll have to forgive me if I don't get all hot and
 bothered about a Russian missile that is moving at Mach 7. And by the way,
 the USA holds the world record for having built by far the largest
 maneuverable hypersonic missile of all time, it was called the Space
 Shuttle. The Space Shuttle was also a turkey but that's irrelevant for this
 discussion.

 John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis
 
 tcs


>>> --
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> 
> .
>

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Re: Trump and his best friend

You speak that way because you're a piece of shit. You could have just 
corrected my error. AG

On Sunday, April 3, 2022 at 10:44:16 AM UTC-6 johnk...@gmail.com wrote:

> On Sun, Apr 3, 2022 at 11:24 AM Alan Grayson  wrote:
>
> *> Where do you get the Mach 23 number?*
>
>
> I already gave my reference for that number in my post, but if you 
> weren't paying attention I'll give it again:
>
> *Minuteman III *
>
> > The speed of sound at sea level is around 700 mph.
>
>
> Yes.
>
> *> Are you saying an incoming ICBM warhead will be moving at 23 times that 
>> number as it approaches its target?*
>
>
> Yes.
>
>
>> * > Implausible IMO. AG*
>
>
> Then your opinion is not worth a bucket of warm spit.  
>
> John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis 
>  
>
> bws
> tcs
>
>
>  
>
>>
>> On Sunday, April 3, 2022 at 8:52:48 AM UTC-6 johnk...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, Apr 3, 2022 at 10:34 AM  wrote:
>>>
>>> *> Followed your wiki article and then said, yeah it indicates an ICBM 
 is way faster. Then I looked why are hypersonics such a threat? The answer 
 is low altitude and great maneuverability.*

>>>
>>> Modern ICBMs contain many maneuverable reentry vehicles, one trident 
>>> missile has 8 and can hit 8 different Russian cities with pinpoint accuracy 
>>> and utterly obliterate them. And those maneuverable hypersonic missiles are 
>>> moving at Mach 23, so you'll have to forgive me if I don't get all hot and 
>>> bothered about a Russian missile that is moving at Mach 7. And by the way, 
>>> the USA holds the world record for having built by far the largest 
>>> maneuverable hypersonic missile of all time, it was called the Space 
>>> Shuttle. The Space Shuttle was also a turkey but that's irrelevant for this 
>>> discussion. 
>>>  
>>> John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis 
>>>  
>>> tcs
>>>
>>>
>>

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Re: Trump and his best friend

And by the way, the Apollo astronauts reached Mach 36 when they hit the
Earth's atmosphere back in 1968.

John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis

a8a

On Sun, Apr 3, 2022 at 12:43 PM John Clark  wrote:

> On Sun, Apr 3, 2022 at 11:24 AM Alan Grayson 
> wrote:
>
> *> Where do you get the Mach 23 number?*
>
>
> I already gave my reference for that number in my post, but if you
> weren't paying attention I'll give it again:
>
> *Minuteman III *
>
> > The speed of sound at sea level is around 700 mph.
>
>
> Yes.
>
> *> Are you saying an incoming ICBM warhead will be moving at 23 times that
>> number as it approaches its target?*
>
>
> Yes.
>
>
>> * > Implausible IMO. AG*
>
>
> Then your opinion is not worth a bucket of warm spit.
>
> John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis
> 
>
> bws
> tcs
>
>
>
>
>>
>> On Sunday, April 3, 2022 at 8:52:48 AM UTC-6 johnk...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, Apr 3, 2022 at 10:34 AM  wrote:
>>>
>>> *> Followed your wiki article and then said, yeah it indicates an ICBM
 is way faster. Then I looked why are hypersonics such a threat? The answer
 is low altitude and great maneuverability.*

>>>
>>> Modern ICBMs contain many maneuverable reentry vehicles, one trident
>>> missile has 8 and can hit 8 different Russian cities with pinpoint accuracy
>>> and utterly obliterate them. And those maneuverable hypersonic missiles are
>>> moving at Mach 23, so you'll have to forgive me if I don't get all hot and
>>> bothered about a Russian missile that is moving at Mach 7. And by the way,
>>> the USA holds the world record for having built by far the largest
>>> maneuverable hypersonic missile of all time, it was called the Space
>>> Shuttle. The Space Shuttle was also a turkey but that's irrelevant for this
>>> discussion.
>>>
>>> John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis
>>> 
>>> tcs
>>>
>>>
>>

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Re: Trump and his best friend

On Sun, Apr 3, 2022 at 11:24 AM  wrote:


> *> I do know that these subs can't for example fire from the bottom of the
> Marianas Trench. *
>

Is that really the best retort you could come up with? You don't have the
intellectual integrity to just admit that you were wrong?

John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis
<https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis>



>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: John Clark 
> To: 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List 
> Cc: agrayson2...@gmail.com 
> Sent: Sun, Apr 3, 2022 7:59 am
> Subject: Re: Trump and his best friend
>
> On Sat, Apr 2, 2022 at 11:56 PM spudboy100 via Everything List <
> everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
> *> The elites in the US have gambled on stability through globalism, and
> hope that one of the Triad of the US retaliatory capacity will survive to
> ensure a 2nd strike. Doesn't look plausible now*
>
>
> Don't be ridiculous! Just one Ohio class ballistic submarine has 14
> Trident missiles and each of those 14 missiles has 8 maneuverable
> *hypersonic* reentry vehicles that can place a 475 kt H-bomb (about 20
> times as powerful as the bombs the destroyed Hiroshima and Nagasaki) with
> pinpoint accuracy to 8 Russian cities. So one Ohio class submarine is
> enough to kill twice as many people as died in World War II and send Russia
> back to the Stone Age, and the USA has 14 of them. And the US is currently
> building 12 even more powerful ballistic submarines, the Columbia class.
> And in addition the US has 1000 land-based minuteman missiles that are even
> more powerful than the Trident. And it has thousands of airplanes capable
> of delivering H bombs.  How much is enough? At some point you'll just be
> rearranging the rubble of Russian cities that have already been destroyed,
> and even an infinite amount of potential destructive capacity won't be
> enough to deter someone who is totally irrational.
>
> *> The speed and maneuverability of hypersonic missiles mean that subs
> which have to rise from the sea floor to launch are targeted.  *
>
>
> Do your goddamn homework! You're 61 years out of date, even the Polaris
> submarine, which went into service in 1961, could fire ballistic missiles
> while still submerged; and yes they were *hypersonic*.
>
> John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis
> <https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis>
>
> dbr
>

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Re: Trump and his best friend

On Sun, Apr 3, 2022 at 11:24 AM Alan Grayson  wrote:

*> Where do you get the Mach 23 number?*


I already gave my reference for that number in my post, but if you weren't
paying attention I'll give it again:

*Minuteman III *

> The speed of sound at sea level is around 700 mph.


Yes.

*> Are you saying an incoming ICBM warhead will be moving at 23 times that
> number as it approaches its target?*


Yes.


> * > Implausible IMO. AG*


Then your opinion is not worth a bucket of warm spit.

John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis


bws
tcs




>
> On Sunday, April 3, 2022 at 8:52:48 AM UTC-6 johnk...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> On Sun, Apr 3, 2022 at 10:34 AM  wrote:
>>
>> *> Followed your wiki article and then said, yeah it indicates an ICBM is
>>> way faster. Then I looked why are hypersonics such a threat? The answer is
>>> low altitude and great maneuverability.*
>>>
>>
>> Modern ICBMs contain many maneuverable reentry vehicles, one trident
>> missile has 8 and can hit 8 different Russian cities with pinpoint accuracy
>> and utterly obliterate them. And those maneuverable hypersonic missiles are
>> moving at Mach 23, so you'll have to forgive me if I don't get all hot and
>> bothered about a Russian missile that is moving at Mach 7. And by the way,
>> the USA holds the world record for having built by far the largest
>> maneuverable hypersonic missile of all time, it was called the Space
>> Shuttle. The Space Shuttle was also a turkey but that's irrelevant for this
>> discussion.
>>
>> John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis
>> 
>> tcs
>>
>>
>

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Re: Trump and his best friend

MAD is predicated on the assumption that those in control of nuclear 
weapons are rational players. If they aren't, then it doesn't matter if 
they have hypersonic weapons. AG

On Sunday, April 3, 2022 at 9:21:20 AM UTC-6 spudb...@aol.com wrote:

> Go ahead and be secure in the sure knowledge that the US is an impregnable 
> Fortress America via it's subs. I hope you are correct and hope that 
> Comrade Xi and Putin know this as well.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Alan Grayson 
> To: Everything List 
> Sent: Sun, Apr 3, 2022 2:25 am
> Subject: Re: Trump and his best friend
>
> I can't argue with determined ignorance. Right NOW, at least one leg of 
> the Triad is secure from a first strike. Moreover, the missiles are 
> launched from *below* the surface, and each Trident carries 16 missiles, 
> each with 8 idepenently targeted warheads, for a total of 128 nuclear 
> weapons, each many times the destructive power of a Hiroshima bomb, And 
> this is only one attack submarine. I think we have a doxzen or more of 
> those. Plus, there are always nuclear capable bombers in the air at all 
> times. No sane person would bet against most of these weapons hitting their 
> targets. AG
>
> On Saturday, April 2, 2022 at 9:56:39 PM UTC-6 spudb...@aol.com wrote:
>
> Xi and Putin would not have built these unless it gave them an advantage. 
> The elites in the US have gambled on stability through globalism, and hope 
> that one of the Triad of the US retaliatory capacity will survive to ensure 
> a 2nd strike. Doesn't look plausible now. The speed and maneuverability of 
> hypersonic missiles mean that subs which have to rise from the sea floor to 
> launch are targeted.  
>
> View Mother russia's own propaganda on this 
>
> https://www.rbth.com/science-and-tech/334526-russia-unveils-answer-latest-missile
>
> -Original Message-----
> From: Alan Grayson 
> To: Everything List 
> Sent: Sat, Apr 2, 2022 9:27 pm
> Subject: Re: Trump and his best friend
>
> Correction: I meant *hypersonic*, not supersonic in previous post. I wish 
> you guys would cease referring to them as first-strike weapons. No nation 
> today has first-strike capability that would invalidate Mutually Assured 
> Destruction, aka MAD. AG
>
> On Saturday, April 2, 2022 at 7:24:22 PM UTC-6 Alan Grayson wrote:
>
> Why do you keep referring to supersonic weapons as first-strike? No nation 
> today has a first-strike capability that would invalidate MAD. AG
>
> On Saturday, April 2, 2022 at 5:51:37 PM UTC-6 spudb...@aol.com wrote:
>
> category missiles of hypersonic speed circa 1960
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nike_Hercules 
> Looks to be only 2778 mph
>
> category Joey catching up to Trump
> Trump 2018
>
> https://www.reuters.com/article/us-nato-summit-pipeline/trump-lashes-germany-over-gas-pipeline-deal-calls-it-russias-captive-idUSKBN1K10VI
>
> Biden 2022 March
>
> https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/mar/25/biden-and-eu-agree-landmark-gas-deal-to-break-kremlin-hold
>
> Trump asked Merkel why are you buying Putin's gas instead of US? Merkel 
> wanted Germany influence Vlad. Bad move. 
>
> category who has what weapons?
> Sanctions? Who knows but please be advised that Putin & Xi went ahead with 
> producing hypersonic 1st strike weapons and have these installed already. 
> The US, no.
> XI:
>
> https://www.defensenews.com/global/asia-pacific/2021/03/15/hypersonic-and-directed-energy-weapons-who-has-them-and-whos-winning-the-race-in-the-asia-pacific/
>
> Putin:
> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/20/what-are-hypersonic-missiles-and-why-is-russia-using-them-kinzhal-ukraine
>
> Biden:
>
> https://www.defensenews.com/air/2022/03/14/what-should-be-the-united-states-next-move-on-hypersonic-tech/
>
> Not yet if ever. 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: John Clark 
> To: spudb...@aol.com
> Cc: everyth...@googlegroups.com 
> Sent: Sat, Apr 2, 2022 4:35 am
> Subject: Re: Trump and his best friend
>
> On Fri, Apr 1, 2022 at 8:44 PM  wrote:
>
> *> Joey and his team are being forced to play catchup with Trumpo's  
> policies,*
>
>
> I have no idea what you mean by that.  
>
> > *I understand the history of Peenemunde and all that.*
>
>
> Do you? Then you know that hypersonic missiles are nothing new. 
>
> * > We also had the tech to build hypersonic nukes with the less old, but 
> still old, rockets of 1960,*
>
>
> Had? I have no idea what you mean by that either. 
>
> * > remember these? Nike-Hercules*
>
>
> Sure I remember, what about it? The Nike-Hercules was an ancient 
> anti-aircraft missile that has been obsolete for 40 years. I re

Re: Trump and his best friend

In JC's defense (cough cough) the article in Wiki did present the max speed as 
17000+ MPH. Mach = 750 mph, so all in all it hopefully doesn't matter if Putin 
doesn't attack because we have the chops to successfully retaliate, or he 
changes his mind, or gets booted? 

-Original Message-
From: Alan Grayson 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Sun, Apr 3, 2022 11:24 am
Subject: Re: Trump and his best friend

Where do you get the Mach 23 number? The speed of sound at sea level is around 
700 mph. Are you saying an incoming ICBM warhead will be moving at 23 times 
that number as it approaches its target? Implausible IMO. AG

On Sunday, April 3, 2022 at 8:52:48 AM UTC-6 johnk...@gmail.com wrote:

On Sun, Apr 3, 2022 at 10:34 AM  wrote:

> Followed your wiki article and then said, yeah it indicates an ICBM is way 
> faster. Then I looked why are hypersonics such a threat? The answer is low 
> altitude and great maneuverability.

Modern ICBMs contain many maneuverable reentry vehicles, one trident missile 
has 8 and can hit 8 different Russian cities with pinpoint accuracy and utterly 
obliterate them. And those maneuverable hypersonic missiles are moving at Mach 
23, so you'll have to forgive me if I don't get all hot and bothered about a 
Russian missile that is moving at Mach 7. And by the way, the USA holds the 
world record for having built by far the largest maneuverable hypersonic 
missile of all time, it was called the Space Shuttle. The Space Shuttle was 
also a turkey but that's irrelevant for this discussion. 
 John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis 
tcs

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Re: Trump and his best friend

That you delusionally conflate Putin and Jan 6trh demonstrates to me how easily 
your team can be cowed. Its a team ideology based not upon accuracy, but upon 
the interpretation of events that coincide with your faith movement. 


-Original Message-
From: John Clark 
To: spudboy...@aol.com
Cc: everything-list@googlegroups.com ; 
meekerbr...@gmail.com 
Sent: Sun, Apr 3, 2022 8:28 am
Subject: Re: Trump and his best friend

On Sat, Apr 2, 2022 at 11:33 PM  wrote:


 > I will repeat, "this Democracy" you exclaim about does not exist, nor is it 
s a Republic. It's an oligarchy, a plutocracy, on sale to the highest bidder,
 Your naivety is adorable, you think the current political situation in the US 
is as bad as things can get so any change whatsoever must be a change for the 
better. Ah, if only that were true! But however optimistic and charming such a 
childlike attitude may be, the sad reality is there is no bottom to bad; I 
would've thought the current path Russia is now on, not to mention the events 
of January 6, would have reminded you of that.  
 John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis 
rut
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Re: Trump and his best friend

Where do you get the Mach 23 number? The speed of sound at sea level is 
around 700 mph. Are you saying an incoming ICBM warhead will be moving at 
23 times that number as it approaches its target? Implausible IMO. AG

On Sunday, April 3, 2022 at 8:52:48 AM UTC-6 johnk...@gmail.com wrote:

> On Sun, Apr 3, 2022 at 10:34 AM  wrote:
>
> *> Followed your wiki article and then said, yeah it indicates an ICBM is 
>> way faster. Then I looked why are hypersonics such a threat? The answer is 
>> low altitude and great maneuverability.*
>>
>
> Modern ICBMs contain many maneuverable reentry vehicles, one trident 
> missile has 8 and can hit 8 different Russian cities with pinpoint accuracy 
> and utterly obliterate them. And those maneuverable hypersonic missiles are 
> moving at Mach 23, so you'll have to forgive me if I don't get all hot and 
> bothered about a Russian missile that is moving at Mach 7. And by the way, 
> the USA holds the world record for having built by far the largest 
> maneuverable hypersonic missile of all time, it was called the Space 
> Shuttle. The Space Shuttle was also a turkey but that's irrelevant for this 
> discussion. 
>  
> John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis 
>  
> tcs
>
>

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Re: Trump and his best friend

I do know that these subs can't for example fire from the bottom of the 
Marianas Trench. 

-Original Message-
From: John Clark 
To: 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List 
Cc: agrayson2...@gmail.com 
Sent: Sun, Apr 3, 2022 7:59 am
Subject: Re: Trump and his best friend

On Sat, Apr 2, 2022 at 11:56 PM spudboy100 via Everything List 
 wrote:

> The elites in the US have gambled on stability through globalism, and hope 
> that one of the Triad of the US retaliatory capacity will survive to ensure a 
> 2nd strike. Doesn't look plausible now

Don't be ridiculous! Just one Ohio class ballistic submarine has 14 Trident 
missiles and each of those 14 missiles has 8 maneuverable hypersonic reentry 
vehicles that can place a 475 kt H-bomb (about 20 times as powerful as the 
bombs the destroyed Hiroshima and Nagasaki) with pinpoint accuracy to 8 Russian 
cities. So one Ohio class submarine is enough to kill twice as many people as 
died in World War II and send Russia back to the Stone Age, and the USA has 14 
of them. And the US is currently building 12 even more powerful ballistic 
submarines, the Columbia class. And in addition the US has 1000 land-based 
minuteman missiles that are even more powerful than the Trident. And it has 
thousands of airplanes capable of delivering H bombs.  How much is enough? At 
some point you'll just be rearranging the rubble of Russian cities that have 
already been destroyed, and even an infinite amount of potential destructive 
capacity won't be enough to deter someone who is totally irrational. 

> The speed and maneuverability of hypersonic missiles mean that subs which 
> have to rise from the sea floor to launch are targeted.  

Do your goddamn homework! You're 61 years out of date, even the Polaris 
submarine, which went into service in 1961, could fire ballistic missiles while 
still submerged; and yes they were hypersonic.  
John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis 
dbr-- 
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Re: Trump and his best friend

Let's hope so, because unless you are making defense policy there's nothing to 
be done by us anyway. 

-Original Message-
From: Alan Grayson 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Sun, Apr 3, 2022 2:30 am
Subject: Re: Trump and his best friend

The question is not whether MAD benefits Putin and Xi, but whether it inhibits 
them from nuclear adventurism. AG

On Saturday, April 2, 2022 at 9:59:07 PM UTC-6 spudb...@aol.com wrote:

Yeah Hypersonic goes at Mach 7 or greater. Really Mach 11 or 12 if I recall?  
MAD is not valued by Putin or Xi unless it benefits themselves. Does MAD 
benefit them?

-Original Message-
From: Alan Grayson 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Sat, Apr 2, 2022 9:24 pm
Subject: Re: Trump and his best friend

Why do you keep referring to supersonic weapons as first-strike? No nation 
today has a first-strike capability that would invalidate MAD. AG

On Saturday, April 2, 2022 at 5:51:37 PM UTC-6 spudb...@aol.com wrote:

category missiles of hypersonic speed circa 1960
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nike_HerculesLooks to be only 2778 mph
category Joey catching up to TrumpTrump 
2018https://www.reuters.com/article/us-nato-summit-pipeline/trump-lashes-germany-over-gas-pipeline-deal-calls-it-russias-captive-idUSKBN1K10VI
Biden 2022 
Marchhttps://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/mar/25/biden-and-eu-agree-landmark-gas-deal-to-break-kremlin-hold
Trump asked Merkel why are you buying Putin's gas instead of US? Merkel wanted 
Germany influence Vlad. Bad move. 
category who has what weapons?Sanctions? Who knows but please be advised that 
Putin & Xi went ahead with producing hypersonic 1st strike weapons and have 
these installed already. The US, 
no.XI:https://www.defensenews.com/global/asia-pacific/2021/03/15/hypersonic-and-directed-energy-weapons-who-has-them-and-whos-winning-the-race-in-the-asia-pacific/

Putin:https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/20/what-are-hypersonic-missiles-and-why-is-russia-using-them-kinzhal-ukraine
Biden:https://www.defensenews.com/air/2022/03/14/what-should-be-the-united-states-next-move-on-hypersonic-tech/

Not yet if ever. 

-Original Message-
From: John Clark 
To: spudb...@aol.com
Cc: everyth...@googlegroups.com 
Sent: Sat, Apr 2, 2022 4:35 am
Subject: Re: Trump and his best friend

On Fri, Apr 1, 2022 at 8:44 PM  wrote:

> Joey and his team are being forced to play catchup with Trumpo's  policies,

I have no idea what you mean by that.  

> I understand the history of Peenemunde and all that.

Do you? Then you know that hypersonic missiles are nothing new. 

 > We also had the tech to build hypersonic nukes with the less old, but still 
 > old, rockets of 1960,

Had? I have no idea what you mean by that either. 

 > remember these? Nike-Hercules

Sure I remember, what about it? The Nike-Hercules was an ancient anti-aircraft 
missile that has been obsolete for 40 years. I remember rotary dial telephones 
too.

> & Nuke-Zeus.

I have no idea what a "Nuke-Zeus" is, and neither does Google, and neither does 
Bing.

 > Comrade Xi copied Putin's hypersonics. So [blah blah]

Spud, I'd be impressed (but not panicked) if somebody had built an air 
breathing hypersonic missile that is powered by a scramjet engine and managed 
to mass produce it and place it in their weapon inventory, but nobody has come 
even close to doing that, not Putin, not Xi, not Biden, and certainly not an 
imbecile like Trump. Even test flights of tiny hypersonic scramjet engines have 
been remarkably unimpressive. And by the way, given the crippling sanctions 
that Russia is now under they are not going to be mass producing any high-tech 
weapons, or anything else that is high-tech, anytime soon.  

 John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis 
hyw

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Re: Trump and his best friend

Go ahead and be secure in the sure knowledge that the US is an impregnable 
Fortress America via it's subs. I hope you are correct and hope that Comrade Xi 
and Putin know this as well.

-Original Message-
From: Alan Grayson 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Sun, Apr 3, 2022 2:25 am
Subject: Re: Trump and his best friend

I can't argue with determined ignorance. Right NOW, at least one leg of the 
Triad is secure from a first strike. Moreover, the missiles are launched from 
below the surface, and each Trident carries 16 missiles, each with 8 
idepenently targeted warheads, for a total of 128 nuclear weapons, each many 
times the destructive power of a Hiroshima bomb, And this is only one attack 
submarine. I think we have a doxzen or more of those. Plus, there are always 
nuclear capable bombers in the air at all times. No sane person would bet 
against most of these weapons hitting their targets. AG

On Saturday, April 2, 2022 at 9:56:39 PM UTC-6 spudb...@aol.com wrote:

Xi and Putin would not have built these unless it gave them an advantage. The 
elites in the US have gambled on stability through globalism, and hope that one 
of the Triad of the US retaliatory capacity will survive to ensure a 2nd 
strike. Doesn't look plausible now. The speed and maneuverability of hypersonic 
missiles mean that subs which have to rise from the sea floor to launch are 
targeted.  

View Mother russia's own propaganda on 
thishttps://www.rbth.com/science-and-tech/334526-russia-unveils-answer-latest-missile

-Original Message-
From: Alan Grayson 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Sat, Apr 2, 2022 9:27 pm
Subject: Re: Trump and his best friend

Correction: I meant hypersonic, not supersonic in previous post. I wish you 
guys would cease referring to them as first-strike weapons. No nation today has 
first-strike capability that would invalidate Mutually Assured Destruction, aka 
MAD. AG

On Saturday, April 2, 2022 at 7:24:22 PM UTC-6 Alan Grayson wrote:

Why do you keep referring to supersonic weapons as first-strike? No nation 
today has a first-strike capability that would invalidate MAD. AG

On Saturday, April 2, 2022 at 5:51:37 PM UTC-6 spudb...@aol.com wrote:

category missiles of hypersonic speed circa 1960
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nike_HerculesLooks to be only 2778 mph
category Joey catching up to TrumpTrump 
2018https://www.reuters.com/article/us-nato-summit-pipeline/trump-lashes-germany-over-gas-pipeline-deal-calls-it-russias-captive-idUSKBN1K10VI
Biden 2022 
Marchhttps://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/mar/25/biden-and-eu-agree-landmark-gas-deal-to-break-kremlin-hold
Trump asked Merkel why are you buying Putin's gas instead of US? Merkel wanted 
Germany influence Vlad. Bad move. 
category who has what weapons?Sanctions? Who knows but please be advised that 
Putin & Xi went ahead with producing hypersonic 1st strike weapons and have 
these installed already. The US, 
no.XI:https://www.defensenews.com/global/asia-pacific/2021/03/15/hypersonic-and-directed-energy-weapons-who-has-them-and-whos-winning-the-race-in-the-asia-pacific/

Putin:https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/20/what-are-hypersonic-missiles-and-why-is-russia-using-them-kinzhal-ukraine
Biden:https://www.defensenews.com/air/2022/03/14/what-should-be-the-united-states-next-move-on-hypersonic-tech/

Not yet if ever. 

-Original Message-
From: John Clark 
To: spudb...@aol.com
Cc: everyth...@googlegroups.com 
Sent: Sat, Apr 2, 2022 4:35 am
Subject: Re: Trump and his best friend

On Fri, Apr 1, 2022 at 8:44 PM  wrote:

> Joey and his team are being forced to play catchup with Trumpo's  policies,

I have no idea what you mean by that.  

> I understand the history of Peenemunde and all that.

Do you? Then you know that hypersonic missiles are nothing new. 

 > We also had the tech to build hypersonic nukes with the less old, but still 
 > old, rockets of 1960,

Had? I have no idea what you mean by that either. 

 > remember these? Nike-Hercules

Sure I remember, what about it? The Nike-Hercules was an ancient anti-aircraft 
missile that has been obsolete for 40 years. I remember rotary dial telephones 
too.

> & Nuke-Zeus.

I have no idea what a "Nuke-Zeus" is, and neither does Google, and neither does 
Bing.

 > Comrade Xi copied Putin's hypersonics. So [blah blah]

Spud, I'd be impressed (but not panicked) if somebody had built an air 
breathing hypersonic missile that is powered by a scramjet engine and managed 
to mass produce it and place it in their weapon inventory, but nobody has come 
even close to doing that, not Putin, not Xi, not Biden, and certainly not an 
imbecile like Trump. Even test flights of tiny hypersonic scramjet engines have 
been remarkably unimpressive. And by the way, given the crippling sanctions 
that Russia is now under they are not going to be mass producing any high-tech 
weapons, or anything else that is high-tech, anytime soon.  

 John K Clark    S

Re: Trump and his best friend

On Sun, Apr 3, 2022 at 10:34 AM  wrote:

*> Followed your wiki article and then said, yeah it indicates an ICBM is
> way faster. Then I looked why are hypersonics such a threat? The answer is
> low altitude and great maneuverability.*
>

Modern ICBMs contain many maneuverable reentry vehicles, one trident
missile has 8 and can hit 8 different Russian cities with pinpoint accuracy
and utterly obliterate them. And those maneuverable hypersonic missiles are
moving at Mach 23, so you'll have to forgive me if I don't get all hot and
bothered about a Russian missile that is moving at Mach 7. And by the way,
the USA holds the world record for having built by far the largest
maneuverable hypersonic missile of all time, it was called the Space
Shuttle. The Space Shuttle was also a turkey but that's irrelevant for this
discussion.

John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis

tcs

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Re: Trump and his best friend

Followed your wiki article and then said, yeah it indicates an ICBM is way 
faster. Then I looked why are hypersonics such a threat? The answer is low 
altitude and great maneuverability. So scratch speed, and highlight trickiness. 
https://www.voanews.com/a/what-are-hypersonic-weapons-and-who-has-them-/6492459.html

-Original Message-
From: John Clark 
To: spudboy...@aol.com
Cc: everything-list@googlegroups.com 
Sent: Sun, Apr 3, 2022 12:37 am
Subject: Re: Trump and his best friend

On Sat, Apr 2, 2022 at 11:43 PM  wrote:

> Um, None of the say, Minuteman 3 missiles or MIRV'd warheads is hypersonic,

BULLSHIT, it could reach Mach 23! 
Minuteman III

And in light of developments during the past month, it's doubly ridiculous you 
and your right wing buddies choose this moment to try to resurrect the myth of 
the invincible Russian army and panic the US into spending even more money on 
weapons. The US already spends more money on weapons then the next 9 highest 
spending countries COMBINED, and you think they're not spending enough?  And  
Russia's  "mighty" hypersonic missile sure as hell hasn't helped them much in 
Ukraine.  
 John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis 
hsw

bsh

hyw

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Re: Trump and his best friend

On Sat, Apr 2, 2022 at 11:33 PM  wrote:

 > *I will repeat, "this Democracy" you exclaim about does not **exist, nor
> is it s a Republic. It's an oligarchy, a plutocracy, on sale to the highest
> bidder,*

Your naivety is adorable, you think the current political situation in the
US is as bad as things can get so any change whatsoever must be a change
for the better. Ah, if only that were true! But however optimistic and
charming such a childlike attitude may be, the sad reality is there is no
bottom to bad; I would've thought the current path Russia is now on, not to
mention the events of January 6, would have reminded you of that.

John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis

rut
nz

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Re: Trump and his best friend

On Sat, Apr 2, 2022 at 11:56 PM spudboy100 via Everything List <
everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote:

*> The elites in the US have gambled on stability through globalism, and
> hope that one of the Triad of the US retaliatory capacity will survive to
> ensure a 2nd strike. Doesn't look plausible now*

Don't be ridiculous! Just one Ohio class ballistic submarine has 14 Trident
missiles and each of those 14 missiles has 8 maneuverable *hypersonic*
reentry vehicles that can place a 475 kt H-bomb (about 20 times as powerful
as the bombs the destroyed Hiroshima and Nagasaki) with pinpoint accuracy
to 8 Russian cities. So one Ohio class submarine is enough to kill twice as
many people as died in World War II and send Russia back to the Stone Age,
and the USA has 14 of them. And the US is currently building 12 even more
powerful ballistic submarines, the Columbia class. And in addition the US
has 1000 land-based minuteman missiles that are even more powerful than the
Trident. And it has thousands of airplanes capable of delivering H bombs.
How much is enough? At some point you'll just be rearranging the rubble of
Russian cities that have already been destroyed, and even an infinite
amount of potential destructive capacity won't be enough to deter someone
who is totally irrational.

*> The speed and maneuverability of hypersonic missiles mean that subs
> which have to rise from the sea floor to launch are targeted. *

Do your goddamn homework! You're 61 years out of date, even the Polaris
submarine, which went into service in 1961, could fire ballistic missiles
while still submerged; and yes they were *hypersonic*.

John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at Extropolis

dbr

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Re: Trump and his best friend

The question is not whether MAD benefits Putin and Xi, but whether it 
*inhibits* them from nuclear adventurism. AG

On Saturday, April 2, 2022 at 9:59:07 PM UTC-6 spudb...@aol.com wrote:

> Yeah Hypersonic goes at Mach 7 or greater. Really Mach 11 or 12 if I 
> recall?  MAD is not valued by Putin or Xi unless it benefits themselves. 
> Does MAD benefit them?
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Alan Grayson 
> To: Everything List 
> Sent: Sat, Apr 2, 2022 9:24 pm
> Subject: Re: Trump and his best friend
>
> Why do you keep referring to supersonic weapons as first-strike? No nation 
> today has a first-strike capability that would invalidate MAD. AG
>
> On Saturday, April 2, 2022 at 5:51:37 PM UTC-6 spudb...@aol.com wrote:
>
> category missiles of hypersonic speed circa 1960
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nike_Hercules 
> Looks to be only 2778 mph
>
> category Joey catching up to Trump
> Trump 2018
>
> https://www.reuters.com/article/us-nato-summit-pipeline/trump-lashes-germany-over-gas-pipeline-deal-calls-it-russias-captive-idUSKBN1K10VI
>
> Biden 2022 March
>
> https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/mar/25/biden-and-eu-agree-landmark-gas-deal-to-break-kremlin-hold
>
> Trump asked Merkel why are you buying Putin's gas instead of US? Merkel 
> wanted Germany influence Vlad. Bad move. 
>
> category who has what weapons?
> Sanctions? Who knows but please be advised that Putin & Xi went ahead with 
> producing hypersonic 1st strike weapons and have these installed already. 
> The US, no.
> XI:
>
> https://www.defensenews.com/global/asia-pacific/2021/03/15/hypersonic-and-directed-energy-weapons-who-has-them-and-whos-winning-the-race-in-the-asia-pacific/
>
> Putin:
> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/20/what-are-hypersonic-missiles-and-why-is-russia-using-them-kinzhal-ukraine
>
> Biden:
>
> https://www.defensenews.com/air/2022/03/14/what-should-be-the-united-states-next-move-on-hypersonic-tech/
>
> Not yet if ever. 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: John Clark 
> To: spudb...@aol.com
> Cc: everyth...@googlegroups.com 
> Sent: Sat, Apr 2, 2022 4:35 am
> Subject: Re: Trump and his best friend
>
> On Fri, Apr 1, 2022 at 8:44 PM  wrote: 
>
>
> *> Joey and his team are being forced to play catchup with Trumpo's  
> policies,*
>
>
> I have no idea what you mean by that.  
>
> > *I understand the history of Peenemunde and all that.*
>
>
> Do you? Then you know that hypersonic missiles are nothing new. 
>
> * > We also had the tech to build hypersonic nukes with the less old, but 
> still old, rockets of 1960,*
>
>
> Had? I have no idea what you mean by that either. 
>
> * > remember these? Nike-Hercules*
>
>
> Sure I remember, what about it? The Nike-Hercules was an ancient 
> anti-aircraft missile that has been obsolete for 40 years. I remember 
> rotary dial telephones too.
>  
>
> > & Nuke-Zeus.
>
>
> I have no idea what a "Nuke-Zeus" is, and neither does Google, and neither 
> does Bing. 
>
> * > Comrade Xi copied Putin's hypersonics. So* [blah blah]
>
>
> Spud, I'd be impressed (but not panicked) if somebody had built an air 
> breathing hypersonic missile that is powered by a scramjet engine and 
> managed to mass produce it and place it in their weapon inventory, but 
> nobody has come even close to doing that, not Putin, not Xi, not Biden, and 
> certainly not an imbecile like Trump. Even test flights of tiny hypersonic 
> scramjet engines have been remarkably unimpressive. And by the way, given 
> the crippling sanctions that Russia is now under they are not going to be 
> mass producing any high-tech weapons, or anything else that is high-tech, 
> anytime soon.  
>
> John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis 
> <https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis>  
>
> hyw
>
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "Everything List" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/fe3beb8c-378c-451b-9dd3-9e84ccd0cc0bn%40googlegroups.com
>  
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/fe3beb8c-378c-451b-9dd3-9e84ccd0cc0bn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
>  
> .
>

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Re: Trump and his best friend

I can't argue with determined ignorance. Right NOW, at least one leg of the 
Triad is secure from a first strike. Moreover, the missiles are launched 
from *below* the surface, and each Trident carries 16 missiles, each with 8 
idepenently targeted warheads, for a total of 128 nuclear weapons, each 
many times the destructive power of a Hiroshima bomb, And this is only one 
attack submarine. I think we have a doxzen or more of those. Plus, there 
are always nuclear capable bombers in the air at all times. No sane person 
would bet against most of these weapons hitting their targets. AG

On Saturday, April 2, 2022 at 9:56:39 PM UTC-6 spudb...@aol.com wrote:

> Xi and Putin would not have built these unless it gave them an advantage. 
> The elites in the US have gambled on stability through globalism, and hope 
> that one of the Triad of the US retaliatory capacity will survive to ensure 
> a 2nd strike. Doesn't look plausible now. The speed and maneuverability of 
> hypersonic missiles mean that subs which have to rise from the sea floor to 
> launch are targeted.  
>
> View Mother russia's own propaganda on this 
>
> https://www.rbth.com/science-and-tech/334526-russia-unveils-answer-latest-missile
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Alan Grayson 
> To: Everything List 
> Sent: Sat, Apr 2, 2022 9:27 pm
> Subject: Re: Trump and his best friend
>
> Correction: I meant *hypersonic*, not supersonic in previous post. I wish 
> you guys would cease referring to them as first-strike weapons. No nation 
> today has first-strike capability that would invalidate Mutually Assured 
> Destruction, aka MAD. AG
>
> On Saturday, April 2, 2022 at 7:24:22 PM UTC-6 Alan Grayson wrote:
>
> Why do you keep referring to supersonic weapons as first-strike? No nation 
> today has a first-strike capability that would invalidate MAD. AG
>
> On Saturday, April 2, 2022 at 5:51:37 PM UTC-6 spudb...@aol.com wrote:
>
> category missiles of hypersonic speed circa 1960
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nike_Hercules 
> Looks to be only 2778 mph
>
> category Joey catching up to Trump
> Trump 2018
>
> https://www.reuters.com/article/us-nato-summit-pipeline/trump-lashes-germany-over-gas-pipeline-deal-calls-it-russias-captive-idUSKBN1K10VI
>
> Biden 2022 March
>
> https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/mar/25/biden-and-eu-agree-landmark-gas-deal-to-break-kremlin-hold
>
> Trump asked Merkel why are you buying Putin's gas instead of US? Merkel 
> wanted Germany influence Vlad. Bad move. 
>
> category who has what weapons?
> Sanctions? Who knows but please be advised that Putin & Xi went ahead with 
> producing hypersonic 1st strike weapons and have these installed already. 
> The US, no.
> XI:
>
> https://www.defensenews.com/global/asia-pacific/2021/03/15/hypersonic-and-directed-energy-weapons-who-has-them-and-whos-winning-the-race-in-the-asia-pacific/
>
> Putin:
> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/20/what-are-hypersonic-missiles-and-why-is-russia-using-them-kinzhal-ukraine
>
> Biden:
>
> https://www.defensenews.com/air/2022/03/14/what-should-be-the-united-states-next-move-on-hypersonic-tech/
>
> Not yet if ever. 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: John Clark 
> To: spudb...@aol.com
> Cc: everyth...@googlegroups.com 
> Sent: Sat, Apr 2, 2022 4:35 am
> Subject: Re: Trump and his best friend
>
> On Fri, Apr 1, 2022 at 8:44 PM  wrote:
>
> *> Joey and his team are being forced to play catchup with Trumpo's  
> policies,*
>
>
> I have no idea what you mean by that.  
>
> > *I understand the history of Peenemunde and all that.*
>
>
> Do you? Then you know that hypersonic missiles are nothing new. 
>
> * > We also had the tech to build hypersonic nukes with the less old, but 
> still old, rockets of 1960,*
>
>
> Had? I have no idea what you mean by that either. 
>
> * > remember these? Nike-Hercules*
>
>
> Sure I remember, what about it? The Nike-Hercules was an ancient 
> anti-aircraft missile that has been obsolete for 40 years. I remember 
> rotary dial telephones too.
>  
>
> > & Nuke-Zeus.
>
>
> I have no idea what a "Nuke-Zeus" is, and neither does Google, and neither 
> does Bing. 
>
> * > Comrade Xi copied Putin's hypersonics. So* [blah blah]
>
>
> Spud, I'd be impressed (but not panicked) if somebody had built an air 
> breathing hypersonic missile that is powered by a scramjet engine and 
> managed to mass produce it and place it in their weapon inventory, but 
> nobody has come even close to doing that, not Putin, not Xi, not Biden, and 
> certainly not an imbecile like Trump. Even test flights of tiny hypersonic 
> s

Re: Trump and his best friend

On Sat, Apr 2, 2022 at 11:43 PM  wrote:

> Um, None of the say, Minuteman 3 missiles or MIRV'd warheads is
> hypersonic,
>

*BULLSHIT*, it could reach Mach 23!

*Minuteman III *

And in light of developments during the past month, it's doubly ridiculous
you and your right wing buddies choose this moment to try to resurrect the
myth of the invincible Russian army and panic the US into spending even
more money on weapons. The US already spends more money on weapons then the
next 9 highest spending countries COMBINED, and you think they're not
spending enough?  And  Russia's  "mighty" hypersonic missile sure as hell
hasn't helped them much in Ukraine.

John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis

hsw

bsh

>
>
> hyw
>
>
>

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Re: Trump and his best friend

Yeah Hypersonic goes at Mach 7 or greater. Really Mach 11 or 12 if I recall?  
MAD is not valued by Putin or Xi unless it benefits themselves. Does MAD 
benefit them?

-Original Message-
From: Alan Grayson 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Sat, Apr 2, 2022 9:24 pm
Subject: Re: Trump and his best friend

Why do you keep referring to supersonic weapons as first-strike? No nation 
today has a first-strike capability that would invalidate MAD. AG

On Saturday, April 2, 2022 at 5:51:37 PM UTC-6 spudb...@aol.com wrote:

category missiles of hypersonic speed circa 1960
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nike_HerculesLooks to be only 2778 mph
category Joey catching up to TrumpTrump 
2018https://www.reuters.com/article/us-nato-summit-pipeline/trump-lashes-germany-over-gas-pipeline-deal-calls-it-russias-captive-idUSKBN1K10VI
Biden 2022 
Marchhttps://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/mar/25/biden-and-eu-agree-landmark-gas-deal-to-break-kremlin-hold
Trump asked Merkel why are you buying Putin's gas instead of US? Merkel wanted 
Germany influence Vlad. Bad move. 
category who has what weapons?Sanctions? Who knows but please be advised that 
Putin & Xi went ahead with producing hypersonic 1st strike weapons and have 
these installed already. The US, 
no.XI:https://www.defensenews.com/global/asia-pacific/2021/03/15/hypersonic-and-directed-energy-weapons-who-has-them-and-whos-winning-the-race-in-the-asia-pacific/

Putin:https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/20/what-are-hypersonic-missiles-and-why-is-russia-using-them-kinzhal-ukraine
Biden:https://www.defensenews.com/air/2022/03/14/what-should-be-the-united-states-next-move-on-hypersonic-tech/

Not yet if ever. 

-Original Message-
From: John Clark 
To: spudb...@aol.com
Cc: everyth...@googlegroups.com 
Sent: Sat, Apr 2, 2022 4:35 am
Subject: Re: Trump and his best friend

On Fri, Apr 1, 2022 at 8:44 PM  wrote:

> Joey and his team are being forced to play catchup with Trumpo's  policies,

I have no idea what you mean by that.  

> I understand the history of Peenemunde and all that.

Do you? Then you know that hypersonic missiles are nothing new. 

 > We also had the tech to build hypersonic nukes with the less old, but still 
 > old, rockets of 1960,

Had? I have no idea what you mean by that either. 

 > remember these? Nike-Hercules

Sure I remember, what about it? The Nike-Hercules was an ancient anti-aircraft 
missile that has been obsolete for 40 years. I remember rotary dial telephones 
too.

> & Nuke-Zeus.

I have no idea what a "Nuke-Zeus" is, and neither does Google, and neither does 
Bing.

 > Comrade Xi copied Putin's hypersonics. So [blah blah]

Spud, I'd be impressed (but not panicked) if somebody had built an air 
breathing hypersonic missile that is powered by a scramjet engine and managed 
to mass produce it and place it in their weapon inventory, but nobody has come 
even close to doing that, not Putin, not Xi, not Biden, and certainly not an 
imbecile like Trump. Even test flights of tiny hypersonic scramjet engines have 
been remarkably unimpressive. And by the way, given the crippling sanctions 
that Russia is now under they are not going to be mass producing any high-tech 
weapons, or anything else that is high-tech, anytime soon.  

 John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis 
hyw

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Re: Trump and his best friend

Xi and Putin would not have built these unless it gave them an advantage. The 
elites in the US have gambled on stability through globalism, and hope that one 
of the Triad of the US retaliatory capacity will survive to ensure a 2nd 
strike. Doesn't look plausible now. The speed and maneuverability of hypersonic 
missiles mean that subs which have to rise from the sea floor to launch are 
targeted.  

View Mother russia's own propaganda on 
thishttps://www.rbth.com/science-and-tech/334526-russia-unveils-answer-latest-missile

-Original Message-
From: Alan Grayson 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Sat, Apr 2, 2022 9:27 pm
Subject: Re: Trump and his best friend

Correction: I meant hypersonic, not supersonic in previous post. I wish you 
guys would cease referring to them as first-strike weapons. No nation today has 
first-strike capability that would invalidate Mutually Assured Destruction, aka 
MAD. AG

On Saturday, April 2, 2022 at 7:24:22 PM UTC-6 Alan Grayson wrote:

Why do you keep referring to supersonic weapons as first-strike? No nation 
today has a first-strike capability that would invalidate MAD. AG

On Saturday, April 2, 2022 at 5:51:37 PM UTC-6 spudb...@aol.com wrote:

category missiles of hypersonic speed circa 1960
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nike_HerculesLooks to be only 2778 mph
category Joey catching up to TrumpTrump 
2018https://www.reuters.com/article/us-nato-summit-pipeline/trump-lashes-germany-over-gas-pipeline-deal-calls-it-russias-captive-idUSKBN1K10VI
Biden 2022 
Marchhttps://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/mar/25/biden-and-eu-agree-landmark-gas-deal-to-break-kremlin-hold
Trump asked Merkel why are you buying Putin's gas instead of US? Merkel wanted 
Germany influence Vlad. Bad move. 
category who has what weapons?Sanctions? Who knows but please be advised that 
Putin & Xi went ahead with producing hypersonic 1st strike weapons and have 
these installed already. The US, 
no.XI:https://www.defensenews.com/global/asia-pacific/2021/03/15/hypersonic-and-directed-energy-weapons-who-has-them-and-whos-winning-the-race-in-the-asia-pacific/

Putin:https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/20/what-are-hypersonic-missiles-and-why-is-russia-using-them-kinzhal-ukraine
Biden:https://www.defensenews.com/air/2022/03/14/what-should-be-the-united-states-next-move-on-hypersonic-tech/

Not yet if ever. 

-Original Message-
From: John Clark 
To: spudb...@aol.com
Cc: everyth...@googlegroups.com 
Sent: Sat, Apr 2, 2022 4:35 am
Subject: Re: Trump and his best friend

On Fri, Apr 1, 2022 at 8:44 PM  wrote:

> Joey and his team are being forced to play catchup with Trumpo's  policies,

I have no idea what you mean by that.  

> I understand the history of Peenemunde and all that.

Do you? Then you know that hypersonic missiles are nothing new. 

 > We also had the tech to build hypersonic nukes with the less old, but still 
 > old, rockets of 1960,

Had? I have no idea what you mean by that either. 

 > remember these? Nike-Hercules

Sure I remember, what about it? The Nike-Hercules was an ancient anti-aircraft 
missile that has been obsolete for 40 years. I remember rotary dial telephones 
too.

> & Nuke-Zeus.

I have no idea what a "Nuke-Zeus" is, and neither does Google, and neither does 
Bing.

 > Comrade Xi copied Putin's hypersonics. So [blah blah]

Spud, I'd be impressed (but not panicked) if somebody had built an air 
breathing hypersonic missile that is powered by a scramjet engine and managed 
to mass produce it and place it in their weapon inventory, but nobody has come 
even close to doing that, not Putin, not Xi, not Biden, and certainly not an 
imbecile like Trump. Even test flights of tiny hypersonic scramjet engines have 
been remarkably unimpressive. And by the way, given the crippling sanctions 
that Russia is now under they are not going to be mass producing any high-tech 
weapons, or anything else that is high-tech, anytime soon.  

 John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis 
hyw

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Re: Trump and his best friend

Um, None of the say, Minuteman 3 missiles or MIRV'd warheads is hypersonic, 
maneuvers, etc. 
This is a hypersonic missile. the Soviet SS-19 never 
was.https://www.defenseone.com/threats/2022/03/russia-has-fired-hypersonic-missiles-ukraine-us-general-confirms/363777/

-Original Message-
From: John Clark 
To: spudboy...@aol.com
Cc: everything-list@googlegroups.com 
Sent: Sat, Apr 2, 2022 8:11 pm
Subject: Re: Trump and his best friend

On Sat, Apr 2, 2022 at 7:51 PM  wrote:

> Putin & Xi went ahead with producing hypersonic 1st strike weapons and have 
> these installed already.

No shit Sherlock. The USSR  had practical hypersonic 1st strike weapons in 
their weapons inventories for about 60 years, China for about 30.  

The US, no.

Bullshit. The US  had practical hypersonic1st strike weapons in their 
inventories several years before the USSR did. You've fallen hook line and 
sinker for all this stupid media hype! Hypersonic missiles are nothing new. An 
air breathing hypersonic scramjet missile WOULD being new but nobody has that. 

John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis 

bsh

hyw

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Re: Trump and his best friend

Trump was one of the Establishment, save a bit more nationalist than usual. He 
simply saw globalism for the failure that it now is seen to be, starting and 
funding wars, and military aggression.  I will repeat, "this Democracy" you 
exclaim about does not exist, nor is it s a Republic. It's an oligarchy, a 
plutocracy, on sale to the highest bidder, often China, which funds the boards 
of directors of your Wall Street guys. These are the people who fund the 
politicians. That you hold this guy in such awe and hatred would be hilarious, 
if not that your fellow elected the dumbest, most corrupt , most ideologically 
blinded politician in US history, whose disasters with inflation as well as the 
debacle in Afghanistan, highlighted that the US is finished and that stronger 
forces can move forward. 






-Original Message-
From: John Clark 
To: 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List 
Cc: meekerbr...@gmail.com 
Sent: Sat, Apr 2, 2022 4:48 am
Subject: Re: Trump and his best friend

On Fri, Apr 1, 2022 at 11:47 PM spudboy100 via Everything List 
 wrote:


> I saw Donald during his speeches, acting  as a truely, original comedian,

And then you immediately thought , that's the man we can and trust the future 
of the human race to, so we should give him the nuclear launch codes for 4 
years. And even now, even after he tried to subvert our democracy and void the 
2020 election because he lost you still want to give him 4 more years of power 
in 2024, except of course that it won't be be for just 4 years, if he ever gets 
into power again he will NEVER leave until the day he dies, just like his 
boyfriend Vladimir Putin.  
John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis 
nzx
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Re: Trump and his best friend

Why do you keep referring to supersonic weapons as first-strike? No nation 
today has a first-strike capability that would invalidate MAD. AG

On Saturday, April 2, 2022 at 5:51:37 PM UTC-6 spudb...@aol.com wrote:

> category missiles of hypersonic speed circa 1960
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nike_Hercules 
> Looks to be only 2778 mph
>
> category Joey catching up to Trump
> Trump 2018
>
> https://www.reuters.com/article/us-nato-summit-pipeline/trump-lashes-germany-over-gas-pipeline-deal-calls-it-russias-captive-idUSKBN1K10VI
>
> Biden 2022 March
>
> https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/mar/25/biden-and-eu-agree-landmark-gas-deal-to-break-kremlin-hold
>
> Trump asked Merkel why are you buying Putin's gas instead of US? Merkel 
> wanted Germany influence Vlad. Bad move. 
>
> category who has what weapons?
> Sanctions? Who knows but please be advised that Putin & Xi went ahead with 
> producing hypersonic 1st strike weapons and have these installed already. 
> The US, no.
> XI:
>
> https://www.defensenews.com/global/asia-pacific/2021/03/15/hypersonic-and-directed-energy-weapons-who-has-them-and-whos-winning-the-race-in-the-asia-pacific/
>
> Putin:
> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/20/what-are-hypersonic-missiles-and-why-is-russia-using-them-kinzhal-ukraine
>
> Biden:
>
> https://www.defensenews.com/air/2022/03/14/what-should-be-the-united-states-next-move-on-hypersonic-tech/
>
> Not yet if ever. 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: John Clark 
> To: spudb...@aol.com
> Cc: everyth...@googlegroups.com 
> Sent: Sat, Apr 2, 2022 4:35 am
> Subject: Re: Trump and his best friend
>
> On Fri, Apr 1, 2022 at 8:44 PM  wrote:
>
> *> Joey and his team are being forced to play catchup with Trumpo's  
> policies,*
>
>
> I have no idea what you mean by that.  
>
> > *I understand the history of Peenemunde and all that.*
>
>
> Do you? Then you know that hypersonic missiles are nothing new. 
>
> * > We also had the tech to build hypersonic nukes with the less old, but 
> still old, rockets of 1960,*
>
>
> Had? I have no idea what you mean by that either. 
>
> * > remember these? Nike-Hercules*
>
>
> Sure I remember, what about it? The Nike-Hercules was an ancient 
> anti-aircraft missile that has been obsolete for 40 years. I remember 
> rotary dial telephones too.
>  
>
> > & Nuke-Zeus.
>
>
> I have no idea what a "Nuke-Zeus" is, and neither does Google, and neither 
> does Bing. 
>
> * > Comrade Xi copied Putin's hypersonics. So* [blah blah]
>
>
> Spud, I'd be impressed (but not panicked) if somebody had built an air 
> breathing hypersonic missile that is powered by a scramjet engine and 
> managed to mass produce it and place it in their weapon inventory, but 
> nobody has come even close to doing that, not Putin, not Xi, not Biden, and 
> certainly not an imbecile like Trump. Even test flights of tiny hypersonic 
> scramjet engines have been remarkably unimpressive. And by the way, given 
> the crippling sanctions that Russia is now under they are not going to be 
> mass producing any high-tech weapons, or anything else that is high-tech, 
> anytime soon.  
>
> John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis 
> <https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis>  
>
> hyw
>
>

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Re: Trump and his best friend

The Clintons had an open marriage as it was called back then. Bill liked the 
girls, and Hillary swung both ways, with here last known friend being Huma 
Abedin, former congressman's Andrew Weiner's wife, and yeah, they too had an 
open marriage. I love to use UK press to expose things because the British hate 
America with great equanimity, no matter who is in office. Any dirt is good 
dirt and any yank will do, especially if the British feel it may be painful 
etc. Lord, bless em!

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3891194/How-Hillary-Clinton-massaged-embarrassed-Huma-Abedin-s-shoulders-intimate-Chappaqua-jealous-Chelsea-treats-Huma-undisguised-contempt.h
Just to be clear, I took this news as a bit of spicy gossip and it has zip to 
do with public policy, which is the thing we could all live and die upon. 
Previously, John Kennedy got more ass than a toilet seat, Eisenhower had an 
English Girl Friend, FDR and his secretary. If we hit upon J Edgar Hoover and 
Clive Tolafsen we're in dangerous territory. 
-Original Message-
From: Alan Grayson 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Sat, Apr 2, 2022 4:38 am
Subject: Re: Trump and his best friend

For some people, "sexual relations" means sexual intercourse. That's what I 
mean. So I don't believe Clinton lied under oath even though he was impeached 
for that. AG

On Saturday, April 2, 2022 at 1:12:57 AM UTC-6 spudb...@aol.com wrote:

He seemingly did have sex with Lewinski! He was Impeached for lying under oath. 
 
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2021/sep/30/sex-power-and-humiliation-eight-lessons-women-learned-from-monica-lewinskys-shaming
Are you deciding that you possess not only your own opinion, but your own 
facts? The Guardian, a solidly progressive left publication disagrees...
"Asked to account for this, 11 months later, by Starr, a man in possession of 
presidential semen on Lewinsky’s blue dress, Clinton came back to the first 
court’s definition of sex: touching a list of body parts, either directly or 
through clothes, “with an intent to arouse or gratify the sexual desire of that 
person”. He didn’t think receiving oral sex counted, he said. And why should 
it? He was prepared to swear under oath, as many times as it took, that he had 
made no attempt to arouse her sexual desire or gratify it. Maybe this made him 
a medium-good lawyer, but – good God – what kind of a person?"


-Original Message-
From: Alan Grayson 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Fri, Apr 1, 2022 10:41 pm
Subject: Re: Trump and his best friend

FWIW, Clinton said he did not have sexual relations with that woman, and he was 
speaking the truth. AG

On Friday, April 1, 2022 at 8:32:11 PM UTC-6 spudb...@aol.com wrote:

Telmo, Trumpo nagged Merkel about buying Vlad gas back in 2018! Why feed the 
beast? But she did and so did Scholz. Scholz has had a recent epiphany with 
Putin. Trump said, why not buy US shale gas, but Merkel wouldn't have it. Like 
Krupp and Thyssen, and Allianz before here, she thought that the money train 
would "moderate" the policies of the National Socialists. With Trumpy, Vlad 
knew he was dealing with somebody dangerous. With Joey, he saw Joe taking 
bribes from Comrade Xi using his brother and son as 'bag men.' 
Also, let me remind you of the great success story of the US withdrawal from 
Afghanistan July 2021. Now that was a brimming success story! I am sure this 
sent a great message worldwide to friends, foes, and neutrals alike! Globally, 
cultures are different. For example, their is the Chinese (han) view of the 
Laowhy (foreigners) with a nuanced and sour point of view, The Baizuo.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/baizuo
The Han term indicates how the Chinese think and feel, and from many peoples 
around the world, they see this as contemptible. Trump was pressuring Merkel. 
For me, I would've said screw the 2.5% increase in Mil spending he nagged 
Merkel about, but stop buying Putin's gas. That would have forestalled the 
invasion because then Vlad couldn't have built up his military. Also, Telmo, I 
have one thing to say to you, Welcome to 
NATO!https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-olaf-scholz-sweden-eu-assistance-in-case-of-russia-attack/

If Vlad can change Scholz's attitude and we both know he was a Merkel 
loyalist,then, there is hope for all. 
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/25/business/energy-environment/biden-eu-liquefied-natural-gas-deal-russia.html

This is not the 21st century I wanted but as Bill Clinton once said, "We play 
the hand we are dealt."
He also once said he did not have sex with that woman, but I think his cigar 
smoking got in the way?  
-Original Message-
From: Telmo Menezes 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Fri, Apr 1, 2022 10:19 am
Subject: Re: Trump and his best friend



Am Fr, 1. Apr 2022, um 00:38, schrieb spudboy100 via Everything List:

With pols I cannot rule anything out. Save one thing that Trump has been out of 
office over one year. This you a

Re: Trump and his best friend

On Sat, Apr 2, 2022 at 7:51 PM  wrote:

*> Putin & Xi went ahead with producing hypersonic 1st strike weapons and
> have these installed already.*

No shit Sherlock. The USSR  had practical hypersonic 1st strike weapons in
their weapons inventories for about 60 years, China for about 30.

The US, no.

Bullshit. The US  had practical hypersonic1st strike weapons in their
inventories several years before the USSR did. You've fallen hook line and
sinker for all this stupid media hype! Hypersonic missiles are nothing new.
An air breathing hypersonic scramjet missile WOULD being new but nobody has
that.

John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis

bsh

hyw
>

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Re: Trump and his best friend

category missiles of hypersonic speed circa 1960
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nike_HerculesLooks to be only 2778 mph
category Joey catching up to TrumpTrump 
2018https://www.reuters.com/article/us-nato-summit-pipeline/trump-lashes-germany-over-gas-pipeline-deal-calls-it-russias-captive-idUSKBN1K10VI
Biden 2022 
Marchhttps://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/mar/25/biden-and-eu-agree-landmark-gas-deal-to-break-kremlin-hold
Trump asked Merkel why are you buying Putin's gas instead of US? Merkel wanted 
Germany influence Vlad. Bad move. 
category who has what weapons?Sanctions? Who knows but please be advised that 
Putin & Xi went ahead with producing hypersonic 1st strike weapons and have 
these installed already. The US, 
no.XI:https://www.defensenews.com/global/asia-pacific/2021/03/15/hypersonic-and-directed-energy-weapons-who-has-them-and-whos-winning-the-race-in-the-asia-pacific/

Putin:https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/20/what-are-hypersonic-missiles-and-why-is-russia-using-them-kinzhal-ukraine
Biden:https://www.defensenews.com/air/2022/03/14/what-should-be-the-united-states-next-move-on-hypersonic-tech/

Not yet if ever. 

-Original Message-
From: John Clark 
To: spudboy...@aol.com
Cc: everything-list@googlegroups.com 
Sent: Sat, Apr 2, 2022 4:35 am
Subject: Re: Trump and his best friend

On Fri, Apr 1, 2022 at 8:44 PM  wrote:

> Joey and his team are being forced to play catchup with Trumpo's  policies,

I have no idea what you mean by that.  

> I understand the history of Peenemunde and all that.

Do you? Then you know that hypersonic missiles are nothing new. 

 > We also had the tech to build hypersonic nukes with the less old, but still 
 > old, rockets of 1960,

Had? I have no idea what you mean by that either. 

 > remember these? Nike-Hercules

Sure I remember, what about it? The Nike-Hercules was an ancient anti-aircraft 
missile that has been obsolete for 40 years. I remember rotary dial telephones 
too.

> & Nuke-Zeus.

I have no idea what a "Nuke-Zeus" is, and neither does Google, and neither does 
Bing.

 > Comrade Xi copied Putin's hypersonics. So [blah blah]

Spud, I'd be impressed (but not panicked) if somebody had built an air 
breathing hypersonic missile that is powered by a scramjet engine and managed 
to mass produce it and place it in their weapon inventory, but nobody has come 
even close to doing that, not Putin, not Xi, not Biden, and certainly not an 
imbecile like Trump. Even test flights of tiny hypersonic scramjet engines have 
been remarkably unimpressive. And by the way, given the crippling sanctions 
that Russia is now under they are not going to be mass producing any high-tech 
weapons, or anything else that is high-tech, anytime soon.  

 John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis 
hyw

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Re: Trump and his best friend

Let me see if I can address some of your points, Telmo?
Trumpo seemed to know he was dealing with a tyrant. Thus, respecting The 
Godfather is one way of behaving. Please remember that Obama tried this with 
Putin's FM Medvedev. The Hot Mic video regarding missile defenses 2012:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keXx0zxTarE
My suspicion after the US under Obama performed the US embassy fail issue in 
Libya, refusing to rescue or retaliate on Libyan Jihadists celebrating 9-11-12, 
which Obama falsely blamed on a Youtube video, Putin had Obama and Biden's 
number.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Benghazi_attack

For myself, as US statesman Al Capone once said; "You get a lot more back, with 
a gun and a friendly smile, than with just a friendly smile." This is my 
thinking personally for Putin and Xi and the Ayatollahs, etc. For whatever this 
is worth?
Please note that the Boards of Directors comprising US corporations are The 
Globalists, that are massively in favor of China Trade because they are the 
only ones making money out of Chinese slave labor from the Uighers. No, I am 
not in favor of trading with countries that have hypersonic 1st strike missiles 
aimed at the US. For me, given Joe's preference for Chinese cash, he being 
forced to change his policies with Comrade Xi now. This is surely not Joe and 
company's preference, but the Chinese Communist Party's decision. As US 
politician Sam Rayburn once stated: "Politics is like having sex with a 
gorilla, you don't stop when you get tired, you stop when the gorilla gets 
tired." 
Yes to the Ukrainians, and the Germans, relying upon Russian rationality. It 
would have made more sense if both nations had invested heavily, especially in 
RPG-16's & 27's as well as I-Hawk systems to ensure calmness, but as you noted, 
20-20 Hindsight. Also with German nature lovers hungry to shut down, post 
Fukushima, perfectly functioning light water reactors. In Germany, there is the 
Fraunhofer Institute dedicated to clean energy, which would've been a great 
decision to fund heavily, solar, wind, hydroelectric and e-cars, before 
becoming addicted to Putin or Xi's supply line. But as I mentioned, globalists 
gonna' globalize. Even CEO Fink of Xi-hugging BlackRock which invested 
trillions of US retirement funds in China, said something about the 'end of 
globalism,' just ten days ago.  
Back to Trump being a fellow tyrant, let me quote Emperor Nero, who is credited 
with saying, "it takes a dog to eat a dog." Let us remember that under Obama, 
and yes Bush 43 there were invasions by Putin of Georgie (2008) and Ukraine 
(2014). Under Trumpkin, never, under Joey, massively. Conclusion, as US prez 
Teddy Roosevelt said, "Speak softly but carry a big stick." 
For methane gas, let me assure everyone in the EU and the UK, even under Biden 
we would never have invaded Germany or the Ukraine! ;-) The Afghanistan thing 
in 2001 was a direct cause of The Taliban housing  Al Qaeda and giving them 
camps, weapons, and money, to carry out the 9-11 attacks, so even Bushy was 
sort of compelled to counter attack then, although I am concerned that he let 
Bin Laden get away in a secret deal with Iran? Possible propaganda, possibly 
true-hard to tell when dealing with the Bush family??? 
Yes to Afghanistan and a view of the world that I can only construe as a 21st 
century form of Isolationism by the Progressive's-Left. Isolationism in the 
20th century was always a part of the hard right, content to drink their beer 
and fart and pretend the rest of the world is unimportant. In the US, this 
attitude has been adopted by the imbibers of ganja and fentanyl, who are 
solidly Democratic Party voters, I have surmised?  
Thanks for the summary of complicated German politics. I suspect that had a 
cooler head ascended to rule Mother Russia, the German behavior would have been 
on-target. Which proves only that as comic, Buddy Hackett once indicated, 
"Timing is everything." If one is dealing with Count Dracula, its wiser to 
bring crosses, garlic, and a 12 gauge shotgun just in case. It also proves that 
getting elected is a different skill set than analyzing. 
Be safe Telmo

-Original Message-
From: Telmo Menezes 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Sat, Apr 2, 2022 4:15 am
Subject: Re: Trump and his best friend

#yiv0685877956 p.yiv0685877956MsoNormal, #yiv0685877956 
p.yiv0685877956MsoNoSpacing{margin:0;}Am Sa, 2. Apr 2022, um 04:32, schrieb 
spudboy100 via Everything List:

Telmo, Trumpo nagged Merkel about buying Vlad gas back in 2018! Why feed the 
beast? But she did and so did Scholz. Scholz has had a recent epiphany with 
Putin. Trump said, why not buy US shale gas, but Merkel wouldn't have it.


These "feeding the beast" preoccupations would have been much more convincing 
if the USA was not itself feeding dangerous autocratic beasts. Case in point: 
China, a much larger and powerful nation, also an autocra

Re: Trump and his best friend

On Fri, Apr 1, 2022 at 11:47 PM spudboy100 via Everything List <
everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote:

*> I saw Donald during his speeches, acting  as a truely, original
> comedian,*


And then you immediately thought , that's the man we can and trust the
future of the human race to, so we should give him the nuclear launch codes
for 4 years. And even now, even after he tried to subvert our democracy and
void the 2020 election because he lost you still want to give him 4 more
years of power in 2024, except of course that it won't be be for just 4
years, if he ever gets into power again he will NEVER leave until the day
he dies, just like his boyfriend Vladimir Putin.

John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis

nzx

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Re: Trump and his best friend

For some people, "sexual relations" means* sexual intercourse*. That's what 
I mean. So I don't believe Clinton lied under oath even though he was 
impeached for that. AG

On Saturday, April 2, 2022 at 1:12:57 AM UTC-6 spudb...@aol.com wrote:

> He seemingly did have sex with Lewinski! He was Impeached for lying under 
> oath.  
>
>  
> https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2021/sep/30/sex-power-and-humiliation-eight-lessons-women-learned-from-monica-lewinskys-shaming
>
> Are you deciding that you possess not only your own opinion, but your own 
> facts? The Guardian, a solidly progressive left publication disagrees...
>
> "Asked to account for this, 11 months later, by Starr, a man in 
> possession of presidential semen on Lewinsky’s blue dress, Clinton came 
> back to the first court’s definition of sex: touching a list of body parts, 
> either directly or through clothes, “with an intent to arouse or gratify 
> the sexual desire of that person”. He didn’t think receiving oral sex 
> counted, he said. And why should it? He was prepared to swear under oath, 
> as many times as it took, that he had made no attempt to arouse *her* sexual 
> desire or gratify it. Maybe this made him a medium-good lawyer, but – good 
> God – what kind of a person?"
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Alan Grayson 
> To: Everything List 
> Sent: Fri, Apr 1, 2022 10:41 pm
> Subject: Re: Trump and his best friend
>
> FWIW, Clinton said he did not have sexual *relations* with that woman, 
> and he was speaking the truth. AG
>
> On Friday, April 1, 2022 at 8:32:11 PM UTC-6 spudb...@aol.com wrote:
>
> Telmo, Trumpo nagged Merkel about buying Vlad gas back in 2018! Why feed 
> the beast? But she did and so did Scholz. Scholz has had a recent epiphany 
> with Putin. Trump said, why not buy US shale gas, but Merkel wouldn't have 
> it. Like Krupp and Thyssen, and Allianz before here, she thought that the 
> money train would "moderate" the policies of the National Socialists. With 
> Trumpy, Vlad knew he was dealing with somebody dangerous. With Joey, he saw 
> Joe taking bribes from Comrade Xi using his brother and son as 'bag men.'  
>
> Also, let me remind you of the great success story of the US withdrawal 
> from Afghanistan July 2021. Now that was a brimming success story! I am 
> sure this sent a great message worldwide to friends, foes, and neutrals 
> alike! Globally, cultures are different. For example, their is the Chinese 
> (han) view of the Laowhy (foreigners) with a nuanced and sour point of 
> view, The Baizuo.
>
> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/baizuo
>
> The Han term indicates how the Chinese think and feel, and from many 
> peoples around the world, they see this as contemptible. Trump was 
> pressuring Merkel. For me, I would've said screw the 2.5% increase in Mil 
> spending he nagged Merkel about, but stop buying Putin's gas. That would 
> have forestalled the invasion because then Vlad couldn't have built up his 
> military. Also, Telmo, I have one thing to say to you, Welcome to NATO!
>
> https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-olaf-scholz-sweden-eu-assistance-in-case-of-russia-attack/
>
> If Vlad can change Scholz's attitude and we both know he was a Merkel 
> loyalist,then, there is hope for all. 
>
> https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/25/business/energy-environment/biden-eu-liquefied-natural-gas-deal-russia.html
>
> This is not the 21st century I wanted but as Bill Clinton once said, "We 
> play the hand we are dealt."
>
> He also once said he did not have sex with that woman, but I think his 
> cigar smoking got in the way? 
>   
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Telmo Menezes 
> To: Everything List 
> Sent: Fri, Apr 1, 2022 10:19 am
> Subject: Re: Trump and his best friend
>
>
>
> Am Fr, 1. Apr 2022, um 00:38, schrieb spudboy100 via Everything List:
>
> With pols I cannot rule anything out. Save one thing that Trump has been 
> out of office over one year. This you are not going to convince people of 
> since the war Putin started was on erb 24, 2022. The conclusion of most? 
> Biden is wimp and Trumpo isn't. Putin invaded before this in 2014, when 
> Barrack was in office and Biden his VP.  
>
> 2nd conclusion? "It takes a dog to eat a dog." Emperor Nero
>
>
> Or maybe Putin was just following Napoleon's advice: "never interrupt your 
> enemy when he's making a mistake". Also, Trump and Putin agreed on a lot of 
> things, especially when it come to dividing the west. Trump was working 
> hard on Vlad's bucket list, weakening NATO and cheerleading for Brexit.
>
> Another reasonable fear is that of Trump being too clueless to not start 
> WWIII in the c

Re: Trump and his best friend

On Fri, Apr 1, 2022 at 8:44 PM  wrote:

*> Joey and his team are being forced to play catchup with Trumpo's
> policies,*
>

I have no idea what you mean by that.

> *I understand the history of Peenemunde and all that.*
>

Do you? Then you know that hypersonic missiles are nothing new.

* > We also had the tech to build hypersonic nukes with the less old, but
> still old, rockets of 1960,*
>

Had? I have no idea what you mean by that either.

* > remember these? Nike-Hercules*
>

Sure I remember, what about it? The Nike-Hercules was an ancient
anti-aircraft missile that has been obsolete for 40 years. I remember
rotary dial telephones too.

> > & Nuke-Zeus.
>

I have no idea what a "Nuke-Zeus" is, and neither does Google, and neither
does Bing.

* > Comrade Xi copied Putin's hypersonics. So* [blah blah]
>

Spud, I'd be impressed (but not panicked) if somebody had built an air
breathing hypersonic missile that is powered by a scramjet engine and
managed to mass produce it and place it in their weapon inventory, but
nobody has come even close to doing that, not Putin, not Xi, not Biden, and
certainly not an imbecile like Trump. Even test flights of tiny hypersonic
scramjet engines have been remarkably unimpressive. And by the way, given
the crippling sanctions that Russia is now under they are not going to be
mass producing any high-tech weapons, or anything else that is high-tech,
anytime soon.

John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis

hyw

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Re: Trump and his best friend

You have NOT shown that attack submarines can be *presently* located. 
Hence, at present, no side has first-strike capability. Hypersonic missiles 
do NOT change that reality. If the situation changes in the future, surely 
counter-measures will be researched and implemented. And the same game 
continues between hypothetical attacker and defender. AG 

On Saturday, April 2, 2022 at 1:39:38 AM UTC-6 spudb...@aol.com wrote:

> Understood, and for example tracking nuclear weapons has been a feature of 
> some U Hawaii physicists who suggested using neutrino detects for this, 
> indeed, for identifying submarines. 
>
> We learn something new everyday, so here's one for all of us...
>
>
> https://digitalcommons.coastal.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1625=ugrc
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Alan Grayson 
> To: Everything List 
> Sent: Sat, Apr 2, 2022 3:14 am
> Subject: Re: Trump and his best friend
>
> You're woefully mistaken. Our attack submarines can't be located to be 
> nullified, so hypersonic weapons cannot function as first strike, unless 
> the enemy has excellent missile defense, which are non-existent. AG
>
> On Saturday, April 2, 2022 at 1:07:17 AM UTC-6 spudb...@aol.com wrote:
>
> Fair objection but please read further into the more nuanced world of what 
> hypersonic missiles bring? 
>
>
> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-10-27/hypersonic-weapons-who-has-them-and-why-it-matters-quicktake
>
>
> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/22/hypersonic-glider-weapons-china-new-arms-race
>
>
>
> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-10-28/hypersonic-missiles-explainer-china-us-tests/100577470
>
> The targets of such a strike would be our minuteman3 missile silos, 
> Trident and Ohio and Virginia class attack subs, air bases that stock B2 
> and ancient B-52 bombers, as well as the proposition that Putin & Xi would 
> do a "Decapitation" strike on DC. In this way, the ability to successfully 
> retaliate gets eliminated, thus these ARE 1st strike weapons sorry to 
> inform you.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Alan Grayson 
> To: Everything List 
> Sent: Fri, Apr 1, 2022 10:01 pm
> Subject: Re: Trump and his best friend
>
> First Strike weapons don't exist, given the submarine based element of the 
> Triad. AG
>
> On Friday, April 1, 2022 at 6:44:24 PM UTC-6 spudb...@aol.com wrote:
>
> Good point, good criticism. Joey and his team are being forced to play 
> catchup with Trumpo's  policies, and even with Xi he is now doing exactly 
> this, with his joint practice war game with the Philippines just a day ago. 
> I understand the history of Peenemunde and all that. We also had the tech 
> to build hypersonic nukes with the less old, but still old, rockets of 
> 1960, remember these? Nike-Hercules & Nuke-Zeus. We didn't go that route 
> because State thought it would provoke tensions because these are 1st 
> Strike weapons. Well, Putin didn't think so, and Comrade Xi copied Putin's 
> hypersonics. So, I believe Joey will follow suit. Hey, it's not the 21st 
> century I ordered, but as Bubba Clinton once said: You play the hand you're 
> dealt. 
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: John Clark 
> To: spudb...@aol.com
> Cc: everyth...@googlegroups.com 
> Sent: Fri, Apr 1, 2022 7:58 am
> Subject: Re: Trump and his best friend
>
> On Fri, Apr 1, 2022 at 2:12 AM  wrote: 
>
>
> *> My thought is tell him we need him back in Cuba with his missiles. Thus 
> giving this asshole an out, and avoid a larger European war leading to 
> nuclear goodbyes. Come back Vlad, we miss you guys 90 miles from our shore. 
> It rewards evil, but it gives us a break from Atomic destruction. It comes 
> down to how dead are we going to be after the 1st strike,*
>
>
> What the hell?? And you called Biden a wimp!
>  
>
> > which they would use their hypersonics? (Shrug).
>
>
> I don't understand why you're so obsessed with hypersonic missiles, 
> they're nothing new, they've been around for nearly 80 years, Hitler had 
> one, it was called the V2.   
>
>  
> John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis 
> <https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis>  
>
>
> iss
>
>
>
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "Everything List" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/301f54ca-8b0e-452f-a35e-c1e9967c34ccn%40googlegroups.com
>  
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/301f54

Re: Trump and his best friend

2022-04-02 Thread Telmo Menezes

country of origin 
that had mandatory military service. However, my military experience is limited 
to 1 day and 1/2 of medical and psychological tests at a military base in 
Lisbon. Luckily for me, they didn't have the budget to pay university graduates 
at the time.

> If Vlad can change Scholz's attitude and we both know he was a Merkel 
> loyalist,then, there is hope for all. 
> https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/25/business/energy-environment/biden-eu-liquefied-natural-gas-deal-russia.html

Merkel is a christian conservative (CDU, moderate right) and Scholz is a 
social-democrat (SPD, moderate left). In Germany and many European countries, 
it is normal to create government coalitions between several parties. Scholz 
was Merkel's coalition party during the previous CDU/SPD government. I believe 
they had a cordial relationship but the term "loyalist" seems out of place 
here, I'm not sure what it could mean. When Scholz won the last elections, he 
ended up creating a coalition with the Greens (die Grüne) and the Liberals 
(FPD, here "liberal" means "moderate libertarian"). The current coalition is 
called the "traffic lights coalition" because of the color of the parties: red, 
green, yellow. CDU (black) wanted the "Germany" coalition: black, red, yellow.

The greens, btw, were strongly against the gas pipelines. For a moment there it 
looked like they could win, but their leader Annalena Baerbock was caught in a 
very German scandal: she was accused of minor plagiarism in a book she had 
written (not citing some sources, I believe), and that possibly cost her the 
election.

> This is not the 21st century I wanted but as Bill Clinton once said, "We play 
> the hand we are dealt."

That is a very American observation that I fully agree with (also for life in 
general).

Have a nice weekend Spudboy!
Telmo

> He also once said he did not have sex with that woman, but I think his cigar 
> smoking got in the way? 
>   
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Telmo Menezes 
> To: Everything List 
> Sent: Fri, Apr 1, 2022 10:19 am
> Subject: Re: Trump and his best friend
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Am Fr, 1. Apr 2022, um 00:38, schrieb spudboy100 via Everything List:
>> With pols I cannot rule anything out. Save one thing that Trump has been out 
>> of office over one year. This you are not going to convince people of since 
>> the war Putin started was on erb 24, 2022. The conclusion of most? Biden is 
>> wimp and Trumpo isn't. Putin invaded before this in 2014, when Barrack was 
>> in office and Biden his VP.  
>> 
>> 2nd conclusion? "It takes a dog to eat a dog." Emperor Nero
>> 
> 
> Or maybe Putin was just following Napoleon's advice: "never interrupt your 
> enemy when he's making a mistake". Also, Trump and Putin agreed on a lot of 
> things, especially when it come to dividing the west. Trump was working hard 
> on Vlad's bucket list, weakening NATO and cheerleading for Brexit.
> 
> Another reasonable fear is that of Trump being too clueless to not start 
> WWIII in the current scenario.
> 
> Telmo
> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Brent Meeker 
>> To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
>> Sent: Wed, Mar 30, 2022 7:54 pm
>> Subject: Re: Trump and his best friend
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 3/30/2022 3:47 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote:
>>> 
>> Woops! You are conveniently setting aside 21st century history. 
>> 
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Crimea_by_the_Russian_Federation
>> 
>> https://foreignpolicy.com/2011/05/26/obama-personally-engaged-in-russia-georgia-wto-dispute/
>> 
>> Or for that matter Bushie.
>> https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2008/08/the-bush-administration-s-feckless-response-to-the-russian-invasion-of-georgia.html
>> 
>> One conclusion is that Trumpo didn't tolerate Putin bloodlust, buddies or 
>> not.
>> 
>> With the Dump in office in 2021 Vlad figured Zelensky would fold and Ukraine 
>> would be a walk-over.  No need to invade. 
>> 
>> 
>> Brent
>> 
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "Everything List" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/2fd1ada6-119a-a7c0-2c69-fb2f60ecf4e5%40gmail.com
>>  
>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/2fd1ada6-119a-a7c0-2c69-fb2f60ecf4e5%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
>&g

Re: Trump and his best friend

Understood, and for example tracking nuclear weapons has been a feature of some 
U Hawaii physicists who suggested using neutrino detects for this, indeed, for 
identifying submarines.
We learn something new everyday, so here's one for all of us...
https://digitalcommons.coastal.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1625=ugrc

-Original Message-
From: Alan Grayson 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Sat, Apr 2, 2022 3:14 am
Subject: Re: Trump and his best friend

You're woefully mistaken. Our attack submarines can't be located to be 
nullified, so hypersonic weapons cannot function as first strike, unless the 
enemy has excellent missile defense, which are non-existent. AG

On Saturday, April 2, 2022 at 1:07:17 AM UTC-6 spudb...@aol.com wrote:

Fair objection but please read further into the more nuanced world of what 
hypersonic missiles bring?
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-10-27/hypersonic-weapons-who-has-them-and-why-it-matters-quicktake

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/22/hypersonic-glider-weapons-china-new-arms-race

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-10-28/hypersonic-missiles-explainer-china-us-tests/100577470
The targets of such a strike would be our minuteman3 missile silos, Trident and 
Ohio and Virginia class attack subs, air bases that stock B2 and ancient B-52 
bombers, as well as the proposition that Putin & Xi would do a "Decapitation" 
strike on DC. In this way, the ability to successfully retaliate gets 
eliminated, thus these ARE 1st strike weapons sorry to inform you.

-Original Message-
From: Alan Grayson 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Fri, Apr 1, 2022 10:01 pm
Subject: Re: Trump and his best friend

First Strike weapons don't exist, given the submarine based element of the 
Triad. AG

On Friday, April 1, 2022 at 6:44:24 PM UTC-6 spudb...@aol.com wrote:

Good point, good criticism. Joey and his team are being forced to play catchup 
with Trumpo's  policies, and even with Xi he is now doing exactly this, with 
his joint practice war game with the Philippines just a day ago. I understand 
the history of Peenemunde and all that. We also had the tech to build 
hypersonic nukes with the less old, but still old, rockets of 1960, remember 
these? Nike-Hercules & Nuke-Zeus. We didn't go that route because State thought 
it would provoke tensions because these are 1st Strike weapons. Well, Putin 
didn't think so, and Comrade Xi copied Putin's hypersonics. So, I believe Joey 
will follow suit. Hey, it's not the 21st century I ordered, but as Bubba 
Clinton once said: You play the hand you're dealt. 

-Original Message-
From: John Clark 
To: spudb...@aol.com
Cc: everyth...@googlegroups.com 
Sent: Fri, Apr 1, 2022 7:58 am
Subject: Re: Trump and his best friend

On Fri, Apr 1, 2022 at 2:12 AM  wrote:

> My thought is tell him we need him back in Cuba with his missiles. Thus 
> giving this asshole an out, and avoid a larger European war leading to 
> nuclear goodbyes. Come back Vlad, we miss you guys 90 miles from our shore. 
> It rewards evil, but it gives us a break from Atomic destruction. It comes 
> down to how dead are we going to be after the 1st strike,

What the hell?? And you called Biden a wimp! 
> which they would use their hypersonics? (Shrug).

I don't understand why you're so obsessed with hypersonic missiles, they're 
nothing new, they've been around for nearly 80 years, Hitler had one, it was 
called the V2.   
  John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis 

iss

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Re: Trump and his best friend

You're woefully mistaken. Our attack submarines can't be located to be 
nullified, so hypersonic weapons cannot function as first strike, unless 
the enemy has excellent missile defense, which are non-existent. AG

On Saturday, April 2, 2022 at 1:07:17 AM UTC-6 spudb...@aol.com wrote:

> Fair objection but please read further into the more nuanced world of what 
> hypersonic missiles bring? 
>
>
> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-10-27/hypersonic-weapons-who-has-them-and-why-it-matters-quicktake
>
>
> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/22/hypersonic-glider-weapons-china-new-arms-race
>
>
>
> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-10-28/hypersonic-missiles-explainer-china-us-tests/100577470
>
> The targets of such a strike would be our minuteman3 missile silos, 
> Trident and Ohio and Virginia class attack subs, air bases that stock B2 
> and ancient B-52 bombers, as well as the proposition that Putin & Xi would 
> do a "Decapitation" strike on DC. In this way, the ability to successfully 
> retaliate gets eliminated, thus these ARE 1st strike weapons sorry to 
> inform you.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Alan Grayson 
> To: Everything List 
> Sent: Fri, Apr 1, 2022 10:01 pm
> Subject: Re: Trump and his best friend
>
> First Strike weapons don't exist, given the submarine based element of the 
> Triad. AG
>
> On Friday, April 1, 2022 at 6:44:24 PM UTC-6 spudb...@aol.com wrote:
>
> Good point, good criticism. Joey and his team are being forced to play 
> catchup with Trumpo's  policies, and even with Xi he is now doing exactly 
> this, with his joint practice war game with the Philippines just a day ago. 
> I understand the history of Peenemunde and all that. We also had the tech 
> to build hypersonic nukes with the less old, but still old, rockets of 
> 1960, remember these? Nike-Hercules & Nuke-Zeus. We didn't go that route 
> because State thought it would provoke tensions because these are 1st 
> Strike weapons. Well, Putin didn't think so, and Comrade Xi copied Putin's 
> hypersonics. So, I believe Joey will follow suit. Hey, it's not the 21st 
> century I ordered, but as Bubba Clinton once said: You play the hand you're 
> dealt. 
>
>
> -----Original Message-
> From: John Clark 
> To: spudb...@aol.com
> Cc: everyth...@googlegroups.com 
> Sent: Fri, Apr 1, 2022 7:58 am
> Subject: Re: Trump and his best friend
>
> On Fri, Apr 1, 2022 at 2:12 AM  wrote: 
>
>
> *> My thought is tell him we need him back in Cuba with his missiles. Thus 
> giving this asshole an out, and avoid a larger European war leading to 
> nuclear goodbyes. Come back Vlad, we miss you guys 90 miles from our shore. 
> It rewards evil, but it gives us a break from Atomic destruction. It comes 
> down to how dead are we going to be after the 1st strike,*
>
>
> What the hell?? And you called Biden a wimp!
>  
>
> > which they would use their hypersonics? (Shrug).
>
>
> I don't understand why you're so obsessed with hypersonic missiles, 
> they're nothing new, they've been around for nearly 80 years, Hitler had 
> one, it was called the V2.   
>
>  
> John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis 
> <https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis>  
>
>
> iss
>
>
>
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "Everything List" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/301f54ca-8b0e-452f-a35e-c1e9967c34ccn%40googlegroups.com
>  
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/301f54ca-8b0e-452f-a35e-c1e9967c34ccn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
>  
> .
>

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Re: Trump and his best friend

He seemingly did have sex with Lewinski! He was Impeached for lying under oath. 
 
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2021/sep/30/sex-power-and-humiliation-eight-lessons-women-learned-from-monica-lewinskys-shaming
Are you deciding that you possess not only your own opinion, but your own 
facts? The Guardian, a solidly progressive left publication disagrees...
"Asked to account for this, 11 months later, by Starr, a man in possession of 
presidential semen on Lewinsky’s blue dress, Clinton came back to the first 
court’s definition of sex: touching a list of body parts, either directly or 
through clothes, “with an intent to arouse or gratify the sexual desire of that 
person”. He didn’t think receiving oral sex counted, he said. And why should 
it? He was prepared to swear under oath, as many times as it took, that he had 
made no attempt to arouse her sexual desire or gratify it. Maybe this made him 
a medium-good lawyer, but – good God – what kind of a person?"


-Original Message-
From: Alan Grayson 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Fri, Apr 1, 2022 10:41 pm
Subject: Re: Trump and his best friend

FWIW, Clinton said he did not have sexual relations with that woman, and he was 
speaking the truth. AG

On Friday, April 1, 2022 at 8:32:11 PM UTC-6 spudb...@aol.com wrote:

Telmo, Trumpo nagged Merkel about buying Vlad gas back in 2018! Why feed the 
beast? But she did and so did Scholz. Scholz has had a recent epiphany with 
Putin. Trump said, why not buy US shale gas, but Merkel wouldn't have it. Like 
Krupp and Thyssen, and Allianz before here, she thought that the money train 
would "moderate" the policies of the National Socialists. With Trumpy, Vlad 
knew he was dealing with somebody dangerous. With Joey, he saw Joe taking 
bribes from Comrade Xi using his brother and son as 'bag men.' 
Also, let me remind you of the great success story of the US withdrawal from 
Afghanistan July 2021. Now that was a brimming success story! I am sure this 
sent a great message worldwide to friends, foes, and neutrals alike! Globally, 
cultures are different. For example, their is the Chinese (han) view of the 
Laowhy (foreigners) with a nuanced and sour point of view, The Baizuo.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/baizuo
The Han term indicates how the Chinese think and feel, and from many peoples 
around the world, they see this as contemptible. Trump was pressuring Merkel. 
For me, I would've said screw the 2.5% increase in Mil spending he nagged 
Merkel about, but stop buying Putin's gas. That would have forestalled the 
invasion because then Vlad couldn't have built up his military. Also, Telmo, I 
have one thing to say to you, Welcome to 
NATO!https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-olaf-scholz-sweden-eu-assistance-in-case-of-russia-attack/

If Vlad can change Scholz's attitude and we both know he was a Merkel 
loyalist,then, there is hope for all. 
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/25/business/energy-environment/biden-eu-liquefied-natural-gas-deal-russia.html

This is not the 21st century I wanted but as Bill Clinton once said, "We play 
the hand we are dealt."
He also once said he did not have sex with that woman, but I think his cigar 
smoking got in the way?  
-Original Message-
From: Telmo Menezes 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Fri, Apr 1, 2022 10:19 am
Subject: Re: Trump and his best friend



Am Fr, 1. Apr 2022, um 00:38, schrieb spudboy100 via Everything List:

With pols I cannot rule anything out. Save one thing that Trump has been out of 
office over one year. This you are not going to convince people of since the 
war Putin started was on erb 24, 2022. The conclusion of most? Biden is wimp 
and Trumpo isn't. Putin invaded before this in 2014, when Barrack was in office 
and Biden his VP.  

2nd conclusion? "It takes a dog to eat a dog." Emperor Nero
 


Or maybe Putin was just following Napoleon's advice: "never interrupt your 
enemy when he's making a mistake". Also, Trump and Putin agreed on a lot of 
things, especially when it come to dividing the west. Trump was working hard on 
Vlad's bucket list, weakening NATO and cheerleading for Brexit.

Another reasonable fear is that of Trump being too clueless to not start WWIII 
in the current scenario.

Telmo


 
 
-Original Message-
 From: Brent Meeker 
 To: everyth...@googlegroups.com
 Sent: Wed, Mar 30, 2022 7:54 pm
 Subject: Re: Trump and his best friend
 
 


On 3/30/2022 3:47 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote:



Woops! You are conveniently setting aside 21st century history. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Crimea_by_the_Russian_Federation

https://foreignpolicy.com/2011/05/26/obama-personally-engaged-in-russia-georgia-wto-dispute/

Or for that matter Bushie.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2008/08/the-bush-administration-s-feckless-response-to-the-russian-invasion-of-georgia.html

One conclusion is that Trumpo didn't tolerate Putin bloodlust, buddies or

Re: Trump and his best friend

Fair objection but please read further into the more nuanced world of what 
hypersonic missiles bring?
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-10-27/hypersonic-weapons-who-has-them-and-why-it-matters-quicktake

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/22/hypersonic-glider-weapons-china-new-arms-race

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-10-28/hypersonic-missiles-explainer-china-us-tests/100577470
The targets of such a strike would be our minuteman3 missile silos, Trident and 
Ohio and Virginia class attack subs, air bases that stock B2 and ancient B-52 
bombers, as well as the proposition that Putin & Xi would do a "Decapitation" 
strike on DC. In this way, the ability to successfully retaliate gets 
eliminated, thus these ARE 1st strike weapons sorry to inform you.

-Original Message-
From: Alan Grayson 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Fri, Apr 1, 2022 10:01 pm
Subject: Re: Trump and his best friend

First Strike weapons don't exist, given the submarine based element of the 
Triad. AG

On Friday, April 1, 2022 at 6:44:24 PM UTC-6 spudb...@aol.com wrote:

Good point, good criticism. Joey and his team are being forced to play catchup 
with Trumpo's  policies, and even with Xi he is now doing exactly this, with 
his joint practice war game with the Philippines just a day ago. I understand 
the history of Peenemunde and all that. We also had the tech to build 
hypersonic nukes with the less old, but still old, rockets of 1960, remember 
these? Nike-Hercules & Nuke-Zeus. We didn't go that route because State thought 
it would provoke tensions because these are 1st Strike weapons. Well, Putin 
didn't think so, and Comrade Xi copied Putin's hypersonics. So, I believe Joey 
will follow suit. Hey, it's not the 21st century I ordered, but as Bubba 
Clinton once said: You play the hand you're dealt. 

-Original Message-
From: John Clark 
To: spudb...@aol.com
Cc: everyth...@googlegroups.com 
Sent: Fri, Apr 1, 2022 7:58 am
Subject: Re: Trump and his best friend

On Fri, Apr 1, 2022 at 2:12 AM  wrote:

> My thought is tell him we need him back in Cuba with his missiles. Thus 
> giving this asshole an out, and avoid a larger European war leading to 
> nuclear goodbyes. Come back Vlad, we miss you guys 90 miles from our shore. 
> It rewards evil, but it gives us a break from Atomic destruction. It comes 
> down to how dead are we going to be after the 1st strike,

What the hell?? And you called Biden a wimp! 
> which they would use their hypersonics? (Shrug).

I don't understand why you're so obsessed with hypersonic missiles, they're 
nothing new, they've been around for nearly 80 years, Hitler had one, it was 
called the V2.   
  John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis 

iss

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Re: Trump and his best friend

The perspective is, you guys are locked into an ideology that does emotional 
things for yourselves, as well as unifies your party against the outside threat 
of a rightwing populist. I understand emotional thinking because I do a fair 
amount of it myself. I saw Donald during his speeches, acting  as a truely, 
original comedian, with some great, people instincts and so forth. Note, once 
in a while even Bernie from Brooklyn spouts the occasional wisdom (very rarely 
now!) of some economic nationalism, which is sorely missed in this age of 
Globalism, read, Crony Capitalism. Bad for any middle class, bad for supply 
chains as we all now see, great for Chairman Xi, who wants America dead. 
Irish, nada, Saints and Begorrah! 

-Original Message-
From: Brent Meeker 
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Sent: Fri, Apr 1, 2022 1:31 pm
Subject: Re: Trump and his best friend

 Has it occurred to you that potatokid may work for the IRA?  He says he 
defends no ideology...but what ever Trump does is right.

 Brent

 On 4/1/2022 4:58 AM, John Clark wrote:

  On Fri, Apr 1, 2022 at 2:12 AM  wrote:

  > My thought is tell him we need him back in Cuba with his missiles. Thus 
giving this asshole an out, and avoid a larger European war leading to nuclear 
goodbyes. Come back Vlad, we miss you guys 90 miles from our shore. It rewards 
evil, but it gives us a break from Atomic destruction. It comes down to how 
dead are we going to be after the 1st strike,  

  What the hell?? And you called Biden a wimp!   
  > which they would use their hypersonics? (Shrug).  

  I don't understand why you're so obsessed with hypersonic missiles, they're 
nothing new, they've been around for nearly 80 years, Hitler had one, it was 
called the V2.    
    John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis 

   iss 

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Re: Trump and his best friend

2022-04-01 Thread Alan Grayson

FWIW, Clinton said he did not have sexual *relations* with that woman, and 
he was speaking the truth. AG

On Friday, April 1, 2022 at 8:32:11 PM UTC-6 spudb...@aol.com wrote:

> Telmo, Trumpo nagged Merkel about buying Vlad gas back in 2018! Why feed 
> the beast? But she did and so did Scholz. Scholz has had a recent epiphany 
> with Putin. Trump said, why not buy US shale gas, but Merkel wouldn't have 
> it. Like Krupp and Thyssen, and Allianz before here, she thought that the 
> money train would "moderate" the policies of the National Socialists. With 
> Trumpy, Vlad knew he was dealing with somebody dangerous. With Joey, he saw 
> Joe taking bribes from Comrade Xi using his brother and son as 'bag men.'  
>
> Also, let me remind you of the great success story of the US withdrawal 
> from Afghanistan July 2021. Now that was a brimming success story! I am 
> sure this sent a great message worldwide to friends, foes, and neutrals 
> alike! Globally, cultures are different. For example, their is the Chinese 
> (han) view of the Laowhy (foreigners) with a nuanced and sour point of 
> view, The Baizuo.
>
> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/baizuo
>
> The Han term indicates how the Chinese think and feel, and from many 
> peoples around the world, they see this as contemptible. Trump was 
> pressuring Merkel. For me, I would've said screw the 2.5% increase in Mil 
> spending he nagged Merkel about, but stop buying Putin's gas. That would 
> have forestalled the invasion because then Vlad couldn't have built up his 
> military. Also, Telmo, I have one thing to say to you, Welcome to NATO!
>
> https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-olaf-scholz-sweden-eu-assistance-in-case-of-russia-attack/
>
> If Vlad can change Scholz's attitude and we both know he was a Merkel 
> loyalist,then, there is hope for all. 
>
> https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/25/business/energy-environment/biden-eu-liquefied-natural-gas-deal-russia.html
>
> This is not the 21st century I wanted but as Bill Clinton once said, "We 
> play the hand we are dealt."
>
> He also once said he did not have sex with that woman, but I think his 
> cigar smoking got in the way? 
>   
>
> -----Original Message-
> From: Telmo Menezes 
> To: Everything List 
> Sent: Fri, Apr 1, 2022 10:19 am
> Subject: Re: Trump and his best friend
>
>
>
> Am Fr, 1. Apr 2022, um 00:38, schrieb spudboy100 via Everything List:
>
> With pols I cannot rule anything out. Save one thing that Trump has been 
> out of office over one year. This you are not going to convince people of 
> since the war Putin started was on erb 24, 2022. The conclusion of most? 
> Biden is wimp and Trumpo isn't. Putin invaded before this in 2014, when 
> Barrack was in office and Biden his VP.  
>
> 2nd conclusion? "It takes a dog to eat a dog." Emperor Nero
>
>
> Or maybe Putin was just following Napoleon's advice: "never interrupt your 
> enemy when he's making a mistake". Also, Trump and Putin agreed on a lot of 
> things, especially when it come to dividing the west. Trump was working 
> hard on Vlad's bucket list, weakening NATO and cheerleading for Brexit.
>
> Another reasonable fear is that of Trump being too clueless to not start 
> WWIII in the current scenario.
>
> Telmo
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Brent Meeker 
> To: everyth...@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Wed, Mar 30, 2022 7:54 pm
> Subject: Re: Trump and his best friend
>
>
>
>
> On 3/30/2022 3:47 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote:
>
>
> Woops! You are conveniently setting aside 21st century history. 
>
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Crimea_by_the_Russian_Federation
>
>
> https://foreignpolicy.com/2011/05/26/obama-personally-engaged-in-russia-georgia-wto-dispute/
>
> Or for that matter Bushie.
>
> https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2008/08/the-bush-administration-s-feckless-response-to-the-russian-invasion-of-georgia.html
>
> One conclusion is that Trumpo didn't tolerate Putin bloodlust, buddies or 
> not.
>
> With the Dump in office in 2021 Vlad figured Zelensky would fold and 
> Ukraine would be a walk-over.  No need to invade. 
>
>
> Brent
>
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "Everything List" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
>
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/2fd1ada6-119a-a7c0-2c69-fb2f60ecf4e5%40gmail.com
>  
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/2fd1ada6-119a-a7c0-2c69-fb2f60

Re: Trump and his best friend

Telmo, Trumpo nagged Merkel about buying Vlad gas back in 2018! Why feed the 
beast? But she did and so did Scholz. Scholz has had a recent epiphany with 
Putin. Trump said, why not buy US shale gas, but Merkel wouldn't have it. Like 
Krupp and Thyssen, and Allianz before here, she thought that the money train 
would "moderate" the policies of the National Socialists. With Trumpy, Vlad 
knew he was dealing with somebody dangerous. With Joey, he saw Joe taking 
bribes from Comrade Xi using his brother and son as 'bag men.' 
Also, let me remind you of the great success story of the US withdrawal from 
Afghanistan July 2021. Now that was a brimming success story! I am sure this 
sent a great message worldwide to friends, foes, and neutrals alike! Globally, 
cultures are different. For example, their is the Chinese (han) view of the 
Laowhy (foreigners) with a nuanced and sour point of view, The Baizuo.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/baizuo
The Han term indicates how the Chinese think and feel, and from many peoples 
around the world, they see this as contemptible. Trump was pressuring Merkel. 
For me, I would've said screw the 2.5% increase in Mil spending he nagged 
Merkel about, but stop buying Putin's gas. That would have forestalled the 
invasion because then Vlad couldn't have built up his military. Also, Telmo, I 
have one thing to say to you, Welcome to 
NATO!https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-olaf-scholz-sweden-eu-assistance-in-case-of-russia-attack/

If Vlad can change Scholz's attitude and we both know he was a Merkel 
loyalist,then, there is hope for all. 
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/25/business/energy-environment/biden-eu-liquefied-natural-gas-deal-russia.html

This is not the 21st century I wanted but as Bill Clinton once said, "We play 
the hand we are dealt."
He also once said he did not have sex with that woman, but I think his cigar 
smoking got in the way?  
-Original Message-
From: Telmo Menezes 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Fri, Apr 1, 2022 10:19 am
Subject: Re: Trump and his best friend

#yiv6764696603 p.yiv6764696603MsoNormal, #yiv6764696603 
p.yiv6764696603MsoNoSpacing{margin:0;}

Am Fr, 1. Apr 2022, um 00:38, schrieb spudboy100 via Everything List:

With pols I cannot rule anything out. Save one thing that Trump has been out of 
office over one year. This you are not going to convince people of since the 
war Putin started was on erb 24, 2022. The conclusion of most? Biden is wimp 
and Trumpo isn't. Putin invaded before this in 2014, when Barrack was in office 
and Biden his VP.  

2nd conclusion? "It takes a dog to eat a dog." Emperor Nero
 


Or maybe Putin was just following Napoleon's advice: "never interrupt your 
enemy when he's making a mistake". Also, Trump and Putin agreed on a lot of 
things, especially when it come to dividing the west. Trump was working hard on 
Vlad's bucket list, weakening NATO and cheerleading for Brexit.

Another reasonable fear is that of Trump being too clueless to not start WWIII 
in the current scenario.

Telmo


 
 
-Original Message-
 From: Brent Meeker 
 To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
 Sent: Wed, Mar 30, 2022 7:54 pm
 Subject: Re: Trump and his best friend
 
 


On 3/30/2022 3:47 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote:



Woops! You are conveniently setting aside 21st century history. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Crimea_by_the_Russian_Federation

https://foreignpolicy.com/2011/05/26/obama-personally-engaged-in-russia-georgia-wto-dispute/

Or for that matter Bushie.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2008/08/the-bush-administration-s-feckless-response-to-the-russian-invasion-of-georgia.html

One conclusion is that Trumpo didn't tolerate Putin bloodlust, buddies or not.

With the Dump in office in 2021 Vlad figured Zelensky would fold and Ukraine 
would be a walk-over.  No need to invade. 


Brent

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.

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htt

Re: Trump and his best friend

2022-04-01 Thread Alan Grayson

First Strike weapons don't exist, given the submarine based element of the 
Triad. AG

On Friday, April 1, 2022 at 6:44:24 PM UTC-6 spudb...@aol.com wrote:

> Good point, good criticism. Joey and his team are being forced to play 
> catchup with Trumpo's  policies, and even with Xi he is now doing exactly 
> this, with his joint practice war game with the Philippines just a day ago. 
> I understand the history of Peenemunde and all that. We also had the tech 
> to build hypersonic nukes with the less old, but still old, rockets of 
> 1960, remember these? Nike-Hercules & Nuke-Zeus. We didn't go that route 
> because State thought it would provoke tensions because these are 1st 
> Strike weapons. Well, Putin didn't think so, and Comrade Xi copied Putin's 
> hypersonics. So, I believe Joey will follow suit. Hey, it's not the 21st 
> century I ordered, but as Bubba Clinton once said: You play the hand you're 
> dealt. 
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: John Clark 
> To: spudb...@aol.com
> Cc: everyth...@googlegroups.com 
> Sent: Fri, Apr 1, 2022 7:58 am
> Subject: Re: Trump and his best friend
>
> On Fri, Apr 1, 2022 at 2:12 AM  wrote:
>
> *> My thought is tell him we need him back in Cuba with his missiles. Thus 
> giving this asshole an out, and avoid a larger European war leading to 
> nuclear goodbyes. Come back Vlad, we miss you guys 90 miles from our shore. 
> It rewards evil, but it gives us a break from Atomic destruction. It comes 
> down to how dead are we going to be after the 1st strike,*
>
>
> What the hell?? And you called Biden a wimp!
>  
>
> > which they would use their hypersonics? (Shrug).
>
>
> I don't understand why you're so obsessed with hypersonic missiles, 
> they're nothing new, they've been around for nearly 80 years, Hitler had 
> one, it was called the V2.   
>
>  
> John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis 
> <https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis>  
>
>
> iss
>
>
>
>

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Re: Trump and his best friend

Good point, good criticism. Joey and his team are being forced to play catchup 
with Trumpo's  policies, and even with Xi he is now doing exactly this, with 
his joint practice war game with the Philippines just a day ago. I understand 
the history of Peenemunde and all that. We also had the tech to build 
hypersonic nukes with the less old, but still old, rockets of 1960, remember 
these? Nike-Hercules & Nuke-Zeus. We didn't go that route because State thought 
it would provoke tensions because these are 1st Strike weapons. Well, Putin 
didn't think so, and Comrade Xi copied Putin's hypersonics. So, I believe Joey 
will follow suit. Hey, it's not the 21st century I ordered, but as Bubba 
Clinton once said: You play the hand you're dealt. 

-Original Message-
From: John Clark 
To: spudboy...@aol.com
Cc: everything-list@googlegroups.com 
Sent: Fri, Apr 1, 2022 7:58 am
Subject: Re: Trump and his best friend

On Fri, Apr 1, 2022 at 2:12 AM  wrote:

> My thought is tell him we need him back in Cuba with his missiles. Thus 
> giving this asshole an out, and avoid a larger European war leading to 
> nuclear goodbyes. Come back Vlad, we miss you guys 90 miles from our shore. 
> It rewards evil, but it gives us a break from Atomic destruction. It comes 
> down to how dead are we going to be after the 1st strike,

What the hell?? And you called Biden a wimp! 
> which they would use their hypersonics? (Shrug).

I don't understand why you're so obsessed with hypersonic missiles, they're 
nothing new, they've been around for nearly 80 years, Hitler had one, it was 
called the V2.   
  John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis 

iss

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Re: Trump and his best friend

2022-04-01 Thread Brent Meeker

Has it occurred to you that potatokid may work for the IRA? He says he
defends no ideology...but what ever Trump does is right.

Brent

On 4/1/2022 4:58 AM, John Clark wrote:

On Fri, Apr 1, 2022 at 2:12 AM wrote:

/> My thought is tell him we need him back in Cuba with his
missiles. Thus giving this asshole an out, and avoid a larger
European war leading to nuclear goodbyes. Come back Vlad, we miss
you guys 90 miles from our shore. It rewards evil, but it gives us
a break from Atomic destruction. It comes down to how dead are we
going to be after the 1st strike,/

What the hell?? And you called Biden a wimp!

> which they would use their hypersonics? (Shrug).

I don't understand why you're so obsessed with hypersonic missiles,
they're nothing new, they've been around for nearly 80 years, Hitler
had one, it was called the V2.

John K Clark See what's on my new list at Extropolis

iss

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Re: Trump and his best friend

2022-04-01 Thread Telmo Menezes



Am Fr, 1. Apr 2022, um 00:38, schrieb spudboy100 via Everything List:
> With pols I cannot rule anything out. Save one thing that Trump has been out 
> of office over one year. This you are not going to convince people of since 
> the war Putin started was on erb 24, 2022. The conclusion of most? Biden is 
> wimp and Trumpo isn't. Putin invaded before this in 2014, when Barrack was in 
> office and Biden his VP.  
> 
> 2nd conclusion? "It takes a dog to eat a dog." Emperor Nero
> 

Or maybe Putin was just following Napoleon's advice: "never interrupt your 
enemy when he's making a mistake". Also, Trump and Putin agreed on a lot of 
things, especially when it come to dividing the west. Trump was working hard on 
Vlad's bucket list, weakening NATO and cheerleading for Brexit.

Another reasonable fear is that of Trump being too clueless to not start WWIII 
in the current scenario.

Telmo

> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Brent Meeker 
> To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Wed, Mar 30, 2022 7:54 pm
> Subject: Re: Trump and his best friend
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 3/30/2022 3:47 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote:
>> 
> Woops! You are conveniently setting aside 21st century history. 
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Crimea_by_the_Russian_Federation
> 
> https://foreignpolicy.com/2011/05/26/obama-personally-engaged-in-russia-georgia-wto-dispute/
> 
> Or for that matter Bushie.
> https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2008/08/the-bush-administration-s-feckless-response-to-the-russian-invasion-of-georgia.html
> 
> One conclusion is that Trumpo didn't tolerate Putin bloodlust, buddies or not.
> 
> With the Dump in office in 2021 Vlad figured Zelensky would fold and Ukraine 
> would be a walk-over.  No need to invade. 
> 
> 
> Brent
> 
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Re: Trump and his best friend

2022-04-01 Thread John Clark

On Fri, Apr 1, 2022 at 2:12 AM  wrote:

*> My thought is tell him we need him back in Cuba with his missiles. Thus
> giving this asshole an out, and avoid a larger European war leading to
> nuclear goodbyes. Come back Vlad, we miss you guys 90 miles from our shore.
> It rewards evil, but it gives us a break from Atomic destruction. It comes
> down to how dead are we going to be after the 1st strike,*
>

What the hell?? And you called Biden a wimp!


> > which they would use their hypersonics? (Shrug).
>

I don't understand why you're so obsessed with hypersonic missiles, they're
nothing new, they've been around for nearly 80 years, Hitler had one, it
was called the V2.


John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis


iss



>

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Re: Trump and his best friend

2022-04-01 Thread John Clark

On Thu, Mar 31, 2022 at 6:38 PM spudboy100 via Everything List <
everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote:

*> Biden is wimp and Trumpo isn't.*

If Trump is so macho then why is his favorite word "unfair", this son of a
billionaire is constantly whining about how the world is treating him s
unfairly boo-hoo. And why was Captain Bonespurs so afraid of Vietnamese
bullets that he avoided the draft?

*> Remember JC, you dems *

I was a Republican for most of my life, I only abandoned the Republicans
when they collectively went insane.

*> are obsessed to madness with El Trumpo. *

Yeah well,, that tends to happen when a president of the United
States commits
treason, subverts the constitution, breaks the chain of a peaceful transfer
of presidential power that went all the way back to George Washington, and
tries very hard to become a dictator just like his pal Vladimir Putin and
very nearly succeeded.

> *> Putin not smart? *

That's correct Putin is not smart, but he is smarter than Trump.

*> He knows how to get to power*

True.

*> and hold it.*

Does he? I can't see any scenario where this crazy Ukrainian adventure of
his ends happily for Putin. He thought the war would last about three days
but he was dead wrong, it's now entering its sixth week and already more
than 10,000 Russian soldiers are dead; the morale of the Russian troops is
so low that a Russian General was apparently killed by his own men, for
some reason they're not sold on the idea of dying for Vladimir Putin. NATO
is now invigorated and is more united than it's been in 50 years. The
sanctions are unprecedented and crippling, they will devastate the Russian
economy and anger Russian billionaires. And even if he wins the war,
occupying a country of 44 million people, who now hate everything Russian
with a white hot passion, with only a few hundred thousand Russian soldiers
will be a nightmare for Russia for as long as their soldiers are in
Ukraine. Look at all the trouble England had with Northern Ireland for
centuries, and Ukraine has over 20 times as many people.

John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at Extropolis

twe

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Re: Trump and his best friend