Re: [expert] CPU temperature question

2003-07-18 Thread Lyvim Xaphir 
On Fri, 2003-07-18 at 01:22, Jack Coates wrote:
 On Tue, 2003-07-15 at 12:11, Lyvim Xaphir wrote:

 You'll like this Lyvim...
 
 I've known for a while that my everything server cum router cum wife's
 workstation was overheating, but it's only been a major problem (e.g.
 interrupting task at hand) when she wants to play quake2. Last week I
 added a 95mm fan with a resistor on it, but didn't really look at the
 CPU because I have to pull the power supply to see it.
 
 So tonight we were playing some quake2 with a friend over the Internet,
 when her machine locked up a littler earlier than it normally would. No
 big deal, it started to reboot as usual, but then kernel panicked. So I
 gave it the three-finger salute, went to the BIOS CPU health page, and
 saw it ticking over from 98C to 100C -- yes friends, 212 degrees
 Fahrenheit or the boiling point of water :-)
 
 Needless to say I cracked it open and found that the CPU heatsink was
 blocked with cat hair and the cheap white thermal compound had burned
 away. In fact, that yellow pad on the bottom of my heat sink had also
 burned away. I scraped it all off and found a tube of Artic Silver II,
 took out the fan resistor and hooked a third fan up. I now have the 95mm
 in the front sucking in with no resistor (loud mofo) and two tiny
 fellers hooked to one of those auto-speed pyramid thingies -- one on the
 back of the case and one on the video card. That seems to be doing the
 job so far, and I plan to get that big fan onto the auto-speed thingie
 or a resistor because it is way loud.


Wow.  You are right...that is unbelievable.  What was that TV show that
was on one time?  Now THAT's INCREDIBLE!

Enjoyable story.  I'm glad you didn't fry the silicon.  It may be a loud
mofo right nowbut you're one LUCKY mofo. ;)

Keep up the good karma aura, whatever you are doing right...

LX

P.S.  Send some this way while your'e at it...

:)
-- 
°°°
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Re: [expert] CPU temperature question

2003-07-18 Thread Jack Coates 
On Fri, 2003-07-18 at 07:30, Lyvim Xaphir wrote:
 On Fri, 2003-07-18 at 01:22, Jack Coates wrote:
  On Tue, 2003-07-15 at 12:11, Lyvim Xaphir wrote:
 
  You'll like this Lyvim...
  
  I've known for a while that my everything server cum router cum wife's
  workstation was overheating, but it's only been a major problem (e.g.
  interrupting task at hand) when she wants to play quake2. Last week I
  added a 95mm fan with a resistor on it, but didn't really look at the
  CPU because I have to pull the power supply to see it.
  
  So tonight we were playing some quake2 with a friend over the Internet,
  when her machine locked up a littler earlier than it normally would. No
  big deal, it started to reboot as usual, but then kernel panicked. So I
  gave it the three-finger salute, went to the BIOS CPU health page, and
  saw it ticking over from 98C to 100C -- yes friends, 212 degrees
  Fahrenheit or the boiling point of water :-)
  
  Needless to say I cracked it open and found that the CPU heatsink was
  blocked with cat hair and the cheap white thermal compound had burned
  away. In fact, that yellow pad on the bottom of my heat sink had also
  burned away. I scraped it all off and found a tube of Artic Silver II,
  took out the fan resistor and hooked a third fan up. I now have the 95mm
  in the front sucking in with no resistor (loud mofo) and two tiny
  fellers hooked to one of those auto-speed pyramid thingies -- one on the
  back of the case and one on the video card. That seems to be doing the
  job so far, and I plan to get that big fan onto the auto-speed thingie
  or a resistor because it is way loud.
 
 
 Wow.  You are right...that is unbelievable.  What was that TV show that
 was on one time?  Now THAT's INCREDIBLE!
 
 Enjoyable story.  I'm glad you didn't fry the silicon.  It may be a loud
 mofo right nowbut you're one LUCKY mofo. ;)
 
 Keep up the good karma aura, whatever you are doing right...
 
 LX
 
 P.S.  Send some this way while your'e at it...
 
 :)

Well, since the rest of my life is being very challenging maybe the gods
decided I needed a break on the computer :-) Besides, as long as it
doesn't take the mobo or ram with it, a new CPU is only $25 -- I've
spent a lot more than that on fans.

Also the BIOS sensor seems to give a number about 10C higher than
lm_sensors, FWIW.
-- 
Jack Coates
Monkeynoodle: A Scientific Venture...


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Re: [expert] CPU temperature question

2003-07-17 Thread Lyvim Xaphir 
On Thu, 2003-07-17 at 01:07, James Sparenberg wrote:

  Really. Interesting. Must be one heck of a magnet to handle the torque and 
  thrust of the fan eh?
 
 Just a thought here.  But if you think about it torque and thrust for
 the spinning fan (assuming a constant speed) will be almost 0.  If of
 course it is properly balanced.  In such a case it will operate just
 like a gyro. (All the weight of the blades on the ends etc.)  As long as
 it is constantly in a single plane of operation torque and thrust are
 negligible.  Also like a gyro it would heavily resist any attempt to
 move it off of it's plane of operation. 
 
 James

Got some new news.  Looks like you were right James; on all counts. 
It's basically a little gyro that uses the weight at the edges of the
fan (magnets) to resist movement off it's plane of operation.  Also,
they do actually have small ball bearings at the center hub.  Although
the TMD fans got an excellent review and technical description in the
following URL:

http://www.dansdata.com/tmdfan.htm

, I'm still peeved that they used the term bearingless. (???)

LX
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Re: [expert] CPU temperature question

2003-07-17 Thread Lyvim Xaphir 
On Wed, 2003-07-16 at 13:53, James Sparenberg wrote:

I think by bearingless they actually do mean sealed bearing.  It's
 more a case of marketing taking a technical term and misusing it to the
 point of extreme obfuscation of term (ie Trusted Computing by M$)
 rather than what it actually does mean.  But you are right the sealed
 bearing fans last seemingly  forever.  Don't know how long because the
 rest of the box gets so far out of date I never use the comp that long.
 (I've got one on a 233mhz pI that is 9 years old).
 
 James

But the problem is that they specifically describe the bearing as
magnetic tip driven.  In addition to that they also say
bearingless.  This to me is inescapable verbage.

LX
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Re: [expert] CPU temperature question

2003-07-17 Thread Lyvim Xaphir 
On Thu, 2003-07-17 at 01:07, James Sparenberg wrote:

   This is not the same thing.  This is new bearingless technology.  It
   utilizes something called a magnetic tip.  My understanding is that the
   fan blade is suspended by a magnetic field.
  
  Really. Interesting. Must be one heck of a magnet to handle the torque and 
  thrust of the fan eh?
 
 Just a thought here.  But if you think about it torque and thrust for
 the spinning fan (assuming a constant speed) will be almost 0.  If of
 course it is properly balanced.  In such a case it will operate just
 like a gyro. (All the weight of the blades on the ends etc.)  As long as
 it is constantly in a single plane of operation torque and thrust are
 negligible.  Also like a gyro it would heavily resist any attempt to
 move it off of it's plane of operation. 
 
 James
   
I've got one now in my hand.  The magnets that actually turn the fan are
on the outside edge that joins all the blade tips together in a circle.
They don't ever actually touch anything. The center point seems to be
the magnetic tip.  But I can't confirm that without unscrewing stuff. 
I'm sorry, I really don't want to do that. :)

Anyway, the bearing type is specifically listed as being Magnetic Tip
Driven.  If it were anything else it would be listed as sealed,
ball, (both), or sleeve.  There's absolutely none of that.  Plus the
fan is advertised as bearingless.



LX
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Re: [expert] CPU temperature question

2003-07-17 Thread Lyvim Xaphir 
On Thu, 2003-07-17 at 03:45, Lyvim Xaphir wrote:

 Got some new news.  Looks like you were right James; on all counts. 
 It's basically a little gyro that uses the weight at the edges of the
 fan (magnets) to resist movement off it's plane of operation.  Also,
 they do actually have small ball bearings at the center hub.  Although
 the TMD fans got an excellent review and technical description in the
 following URL:
 
 http://www.dansdata.com/tmdfan.htm
 
 , I'm still peeved that they used the term bearingless. (???)

Yet another update.  I found the fan manufacturer's site and they have
no mention of bearingless anywhere.

http://www.ystech.com.tw/Tmd/tmd-0.htm

The mention of bearingless comes in when you start hitting the sites
that are actually selling the Areoflow or it's fan technology, similar
to this one:

http://www.mlhsystems.com/momex/NavCode/Hardware.info/ID/2159

Or this review site:

http://www.burnoutpc.com/index.php?page=reviewsreview_id=150

Which lists the bearing type as Magnetic Tip Driving.  This is simply
incorrect.  Other sites with conventional fans list bearing types as
either sleeve or ball bearing.  That is how the Areoflow should be
listed; as ball bearing.

More pointedly; the Magnetic Tip Driving technology is nowhere near the
center ball bearing; it's outside the fan perimeter entirely.

Bottom line, it's not the manufacturer's fault.  The bearingless myth
started after they began selling; by the sellers.


LX
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Re: [expert] CPU temperature question

2003-07-17 Thread J.C. Woods 


Lyvim Xaphir wrote:

I've got one now in my hand.  The magnets that actually turn the fan are
on the outside edge that joins all the blade tips together in a circle.
They don't ever actually touch anything. The center point seems to be
the magnetic tip.  But I can't confirm that without unscrewing stuff. 
I'm sorry, I really don't want to do that. :)

Anyway, the bearing type is specifically listed as being Magnetic Tip
Driven.  If it were anything else it would be listed as sealed,
ball, (both), or sleeve.  There's absolutely none of that.  Plus the
fan is advertised as bearingless.


LX
 

Oh, come on, LX, would you kindly take that fan completely apart, and 
give us a count on the number of parts. And, after you get it put back 
together and installed, let us know how really nice it works.

Thanks,
drjung
--
J. Craig Woods
UNIX Network/System Engineer
http://www.trismegistus.net/resume.htm
Let him that would move the world, first move himself.
-- Socrates


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Re: [expert] CPU temperature question

2003-07-17 Thread Tom Brinkman 
On Wednesday July 16 2003 08:14 pm, James Sparenberg wrote:
  [root /tom] $ hddtemp /dev/hd[ab]
  /dev/hda: Maxtor 6Y080L0: 67°C
  /dev/hdb: MAXTOR 6L040J2: 47°C
 
  I don't know whether to believe this output or not. They're
  good performing HDD's, not a hint of problem. Jeez, I could
  proly use the 80gig for cookin breakfast too (?)

 First off I'm willing to bet that hda is above (physically) hdb.
  Heat rises so ...

No, hda is the bottom drive an the drives are well separated. I 
believe the 67° is likely bogus. hda is no hotter to the touch than 
hdb.
-- 
Tom Brinkman  Corpus Christi, Texas


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Re: [expert] CPU temperature question

2003-07-17 Thread Jack Coates 
On Thu, 2003-07-17 at 06:01, Tom Brinkman wrote:
 On Wednesday July 16 2003 08:14 pm, James Sparenberg wrote:
   [root /tom] $ hddtemp /dev/hd[ab]
   /dev/hda: Maxtor 6Y080L0: 67°C
   /dev/hdb: MAXTOR 6L040J2: 47°C
  
   I don't know whether to believe this output or not. They're
   good performing HDD's, not a hint of problem. Jeez, I could
   proly use the 80gig for cookin breakfast too (?)
 
  First off I'm willing to bet that hda is above (physically) hdb.
   Heat rises so ...
 
 No, hda is the bottom drive an the drives are well separated. I 
 believe the 67° is likely bogus. hda is no hotter to the touch than 
 hdb.

some drives just return bogus temperature info -- I've seen that people
are working on it IIRC, but don't press me for details :-)

For instance though:
Jul 17 06:05:10 chupacabra smartd[784]: Device: /dev/hda, SMART Usage
Attribute: 194 Temperature_Celsius changed from 161 to 148 
Jul 17 06:35:29 chupacabra smartd[784]: Device: /dev/hda, SMART Usage
Attribute: 194 Temperature_Celsius changed from 148 to 157

This is a laptop drive sitting under maybe 1/2 inch of plastic, shock
absorption material, and my left hand. I'd know if it was really 322
degrees Fahrenheit.
-- 
Jack Coates
Monkeynoodle: A Scientific Venture...


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Re: [expert] CPU temperature question

2003-07-17 Thread Ronald J. Hall 
On Thursday 17 July 2003 03:19 am, Lyvim Xaphir wrote:

 But the problem is that they specifically describe the bearing as
 magnetic tip driven.  In addition to that they also say
 bearingless.  This to me is inescapable verbage.

 LX

Almost sounds like the monorail magnet concept.

Or like the entire fan is now the armature...  :-)

-- 
  
  /\  
DarkLord 
  \/  


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Re: [expert] CPU temperature question

2003-07-17 Thread Jack Coates 
On Tue, 2003-07-15 at 12:11, Lyvim Xaphir wrote:
 On Tue, 2003-07-15 at 14:11, Thomas K. Gamble wrote:
 
  
  I had a system that was experiencing periodic lockups recently.  Turns 
  out the cpu temps were creeping up to around 78C. Improving the case 
  cooling brought the temp down to around 63C under load.  Still not 
  ideal, but the system is in a safe and has limited cooling.  I may have 
  to try a different heatsink fan combo.  This is a Tyan dual cpu mb with 
  2100+MPs.  Obviously reliability fails well below 110C, at least for 
  this system.
  
  Anyone know which mbs have the core temp sensors?
 
 Well, the core temp sensors are in the core, which is the XP chip
 itself.  In other words it's an AMD cpu thing; which is the reason for
 the increase in accuracy over the mobo sensors.
 
 If you were at 78C you were at extreme risk of frying your CPU's.  In
 fact it's possible that there might have been some damage done.

You'll like this Lyvim...

I've known for a while that my everything server cum router cum wife's
workstation was overheating, but it's only been a major problem (e.g.
interrupting task at hand) when she wants to play quake2. Last week I
added a 95mm fan with a resistor on it, but didn't really look at the
CPU because I have to pull the power supply to see it.

So tonight we were playing some quake2 with a friend over the Internet,
when her machine locked up a littler earlier than it normally would. No
big deal, it started to reboot as usual, but then kernel panicked. So I
gave it the three-finger salute, went to the BIOS CPU health page, and
saw it ticking over from 98C to 100C -- yes friends, 212 degrees
Fahrenheit or the boiling point of water :-)

Needless to say I cracked it open and found that the CPU heatsink was
blocked with cat hair and the cheap white thermal compound had burned
away. In fact, that yellow pad on the bottom of my heat sink had also
burned away. I scraped it all off and found a tube of Artic Silver II,
took out the fan resistor and hooked a third fan up. I now have the 95mm
in the front sucking in with no resistor (loud mofo) and two tiny
fellers hooked to one of those auto-speed pyramid thingies -- one on the
back of the case and one on the video card. That seems to be doing the
job so far, and I plan to get that big fan onto the auto-speed thingie
or a resistor because it is way loud.
-- 
Jack Coates
Monkeynoodle: A Scientific Venture...


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Re: [expert] CPU temperature question

2003-07-16 Thread Olaf Marzocchi 

  I'm not really worried about the temp...having read the docs from
  AMD, I won't worry till it hits 65C, which it has never done :)
I'm not worried about the temp too, but I'm worried about the HD. If it 
reaches 45°C, you have to do something. In fact, I'm thinking to buy a case 
fan (termocontrolled, I want silence during winter) to lower the 
temperature: now systemp is 41°C, I won't exaggerate saying the HD is 
always about 4-6°C over the sys temp.

Olaf  


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Re: [expert] CPU temperature question

2003-07-16 Thread Olaf Marzocchi 
At 21.11 15/07/2003, you wrote:
The Areoflows have bearingless fans which are some of the quietest in
the industry, and ultimately reliable because they are, well,
bearingless.  It is possible to get a better thermal resistance with
another HSF, but not without going to a bearing based fan, and the HSF's
that outperform the Areoflow don't do it by a significant margin and
plus they weigh a ton cause usually they are solid copper.  That can
possibly put a physical strain on the mobo if it's in a tower case.
Bearingless fans more reliable than ball bearing fans? are you sure? I 
always heard the opposite, but I know they are quiter (initially, after one 
or two years they are the same as ball bearing fans or even worse).

Olaf 


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Re: [expert] CPU temperature question

2003-07-16 Thread Thomas K. Gamble 
On Tuesday 15 July 2003 09:16 pm, Greg Meyer wrote:
 On Tuesday 15 July 2003 02:11 pm, Thomas K. Gamble wrote:
  Anyone know which mbs have the core temp sensors?

 It's the processor that has the sensor, the motherboard must have the
 ability to read it, and then libsensors has to be able to translate
 it.  For instance, my Soyo KT400 Dragon Ultra has the ability to read
 the on chip diode, but it uses the lm90 chip which is not supported
 by lm-sensors.

I meant to ask which motherboards had the ability to read the core 
temps.  Sorry for the ambiguity.  Someone suggested the Tom's Hardware 
website and I may have a look there.  Replacing the motherboards is not 
an urgent issue, but it's something to keep in mind for the future.

Thanks

-- 
Thomas K. Gamble
Los Alamos National Laboratory
Advanced Diagnostics  Instrumentation (C-ADI)
p:505-665-4323 f:505-665-4267
MS-E543


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Re: [expert] CPU temperature question

2003-07-16 Thread Thomas K. Gamble 
On Tuesday 15 July 2003 01:11 pm, Lyvim Xaphir wrote:

 But you can chill those puppies and you might be able to get
 stability under high load with no problem.  What I would do is
 install two Vantec Areoflow heat sink fans (they have copper cores,
 surrounded by a block of machined aluminum) after cleaning the chip
 surfaces carefully with a q-tip soaked in odorless mineral spirits to
 get rid of the old thermal compound.  Same for the HSF.

 Get some Arctic Silver 3 thermal compound (the best thermal
 resistance rating you can get) and use that to install your Areoflows
 (model number VA4-C7040).  Arctic Silver 3 is pretty much the best
 thermal compound around and as a result of it's superior thermal
 resistance it can get your core down by as much as 7C.

 The Areoflows have bearingless fans which are some of the quietest in
 the industry, and ultimately reliable because they are, well,
 bearingless.  It is possible to get a better thermal resistance with
 another HSF, but not without going to a bearing based fan, and the
 HSF's that outperform the Areoflow don't do it by a significant
 margin and plus they weigh a ton cause usually they are solid copper.
  That can possibly put a physical strain on the mobo if it's in a
 tower case.

I've actually ordered a couple of these to try them out although I don't 
know how much of an improvement they'll be over the Thermaltake 
Volcanos I have installed.  Given that the computers are in safes, 
noise is not an issue, at least as far as the computers are concerned.  
Now the safes are a different story.  I have three safes and each has 
two 10 inch exhaust fans.  The background noise level in the room is 
about 62db.  Annoying but I'm told it's not a hazard.



  --
  Thomas K. Gamble
  Los Alamos National Laboratory
  Advanced Diagnostics  Instrumentation (C-ADI)
  p:505-665-4323 f:505-665-4267
  MS-E543

 LX

-- 
Thomas K. Gamble
Los Alamos National Laboratory
Advanced Diagnostics  Instrumentation (C-ADI)
p:505-665-4323 f:505-665-4267
MS-E543


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Re: [expert] CPU temperature question

2003-07-16 Thread James Sparenberg 
On Wed, 2003-07-16 at 06:24, Thomas K. Gamble wrote:
 On Tuesday 15 July 2003 01:11 pm, Lyvim Xaphir wrote:
 
  But you can chill those puppies and you might be able to get
  stability under high load with no problem.  What I would do is
  install two Vantec Areoflow heat sink fans (they have copper cores,
  surrounded by a block of machined aluminum) after cleaning the chip
  surfaces carefully with a q-tip soaked in odorless mineral spirits to
  get rid of the old thermal compound.  Same for the HSF.
 
  Get some Arctic Silver 3 thermal compound (the best thermal
  resistance rating you can get) and use that to install your Areoflows
  (model number VA4-C7040).  Arctic Silver 3 is pretty much the best
  thermal compound around and as a result of it's superior thermal
  resistance it can get your core down by as much as 7C.
 
  The Areoflows have bearingless fans which are some of the quietest in
  the industry, and ultimately reliable because they are, well,
  bearingless.  It is possible to get a better thermal resistance with
  another HSF, but not without going to a bearing based fan, and the
  HSF's that outperform the Areoflow don't do it by a significant
  margin and plus they weigh a ton cause usually they are solid copper.
   That can possibly put a physical strain on the mobo if it's in a
  tower case.
 
 I've actually ordered a couple of these to try them out although I don't 
 know how much of an improvement they'll be over the Thermaltake 
 Volcanos I have installed.  Given that the computers are in safes, 
 noise is not an issue, at least as far as the computers are concerned.  
 Now the safes are a different story.  I have three safes and each has 
 two 10 inch exhaust fans.  The background noise level in the room is 
 about 62db.  Annoying but I'm told it's not a hazard.

Thomas,

   Not a hazard due to db level, but it can affect your hearing in that
the the air in the room pulses rhythmically.  If you are an old fart
like myself this can be more damaging than when you were 21 because your
eardrums are stiffer than before.  For short times of exposure you are
ok, but if you are going to spend a large amount of time in rooms like
this I'd highly recommend the foam earplugs, or equivalent.   Those
aren't phones you're hearing. *grin*

James
   


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Re: [expert] CPU temperature question

2003-07-16 Thread James Sparenberg 
On Wed, 2003-07-16 at 01:21, Olaf Marzocchi wrote:
I'm not really worried about the temp...having read the docs from
AMD, I won't worry till it hits 65C, which it has never done :)
 
 I'm not worried about the temp too, but I'm worried about the HD. If it 
 reaches 45°C, you have to do something. In fact, I'm thinking to buy a case 
 fan (termocontrolled, I want silence during winter) to lower the 
 temperature: now systemp is 41°C, I won't exaggerate saying the HD is 
 always about 4-6°C over the sys temp.
 
 Olaf  

Olaf,

   I'm reminded of a story from a friend of mine.  Had a HDD overheat. 
Couldn't read it.  Stuck it in the freezer overnight.  And then it would
work for about 30 minutes.  Stick it back in the freezer... read off
more data.  About 5 or 6 cycles of this were needed before they could
get all the data off of it, and then trash it.  (Why I like seagates new
drives they run super cool.)

James



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Re: [expert] CPU temperature question

2003-07-16 Thread James Sparenberg 
On Wed, 2003-07-16 at 06:59, Lorne wrote:
 On Tuesday 15 July 2003 12:11 pm, Lyvim Xaphir wrote:
  The Areoflows have bearingless fans which are some of the quietest in
  the industry, and ultimately reliable because they are, well,
  bearingless.
 
 If you are referring to the old bushing fans, there is no way they are more 
 reliable. They simply do not last. A sealed bearing will last for years and 
 years. A bushing fan might last 3, but usually 18-24 months is all they can 
 handle.
 
 I'm currently running some sealed bearing fans that are actually much quieter 
 than the old bearingless fans by a factor of 3. 

Lorne,

   I think by bearingless they actually do mean sealed bearing.  It's
more a case of marketing taking a technical term and misusing it to the
point of extreme obfuscation of term (ie Trusted Computing by M$)
rather than what it actually does mean.  But you are right the sealed
bearing fans last seemingly  forever.  Don't know how long because the
rest of the box gets so far out of date I never use the comp that long.
(I've got one on a 233mhz pI that is 9 years old).

James



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Re: [expert] CPU temperature question

2003-07-16 Thread Lyvim Xaphir 
On Wed, 2003-07-16 at 13:45, James Sparenberg wrote:
 On Wed, 2003-07-16 at 06:24, Thomas K. Gamble wrote:

   HSF's that outperform the Areoflow don't do it by a significant
   margin and plus they weigh a ton cause usually they are solid copper.
That can possibly put a physical strain on the mobo if it's in a
   tower case.
  
  I've actually ordered a couple of these to try them out although I don't 
  know how much of an improvement they'll be over the Thermaltake 
  Volcanos I have installed.  Given that the computers are in safes, 
  noise is not an issue, at least as far as the computers are concerned.  
  Now the safes are a different story.  I have three safes and each has 
  two 10 inch exhaust fans.  The background noise level in the room is 
  about 62db.  Annoying but I'm told it's not a hazard.

Thomas,

Don't forget your Arctic Silver 3 thermal compound.  You need that.  It
has the best heat transfer rating of any of the others.

For thermal resistance test results on some Volcano 9 and 7+ vs the
VA4-C7040's, please see the following:

http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/20030113/cooler5-39.html#hot_or_cold_thermal_resistance_is_decisive

Yes, the Va4-C7040 beat those Volcano's in this roundup.  The noise
levels *could* be made to be comparable, but he had to reduce the rpm's
of the volcano's down to 1800 in order to achieve that.  Meanwhile the
VA4-C7040's were running at full speed for the noise level tests you
see.


 
 Thomas,
 
Not a hazard due to db level, but it can affect your hearing in that
 the the air in the room pulses rhythmically.  If you are an old fart
 like myself this can be more damaging than when you were 21 because your
 eardrums are stiffer than before.  For short times of exposure you are
 ok, but if you are going to spend a large amount of time in rooms like
 this I'd highly recommend the foam earplugs, or equivalent.   Those
 aren't phones you're hearing. *grin*
 
 James

James,

 Fascinating.  I didn't realize that.  I need to watch the noise levels
around here a little more carefully.

On a side note: While doing some overclocking tests I noticed that under
full CPU load the mobo sensor was reporting 59C.  This naturally
bothered me quite a bit.  I checked inside the case.  Guess what?  A
SCSI cable was hanging over the HSF with only about a quarter inch
clearance or so.  About half the fan was covered.  So I rerouted the
cable, and the temp dropped under full load a full 5C; down to 54C.

I think I'm going to refit the whole machine with round IDE and SCSI
cables.

--LX

P.S.  BTW, I'm still curious about your NIC testing. :)
-- 
°°°
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*Catch Star Trek Enterprise, Wednesdays on UPN*



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Re: [expert] CPU temperature question

2003-07-16 Thread diego 
Which mark and model? I'm really concerned about noise and temp...

I'm running a XP 1800+ (1500MHz) downclocked to 1100MHz in summer (40ºC
in the room!). To me it's quite acceptable cpu temp go up to 60ºC at
full load with a noise less than 40dB




El mié, 16-07-2003 a las 15:59, Lorne escribió:
 On Tuesday 15 July 2003 12:11 pm, Lyvim Xaphir wrote:
  The Areoflows have bearingless fans which are some of the quietest in
  the industry, and ultimately reliable because they are, well,
  bearingless.
 
 If you are referring to the old bushing fans, there is no way they are more 
 reliable. They simply do not last. A sealed bearing will last for years and 
 years. A bushing fan might last 3, but usually 18-24 months is all they can 
 handle.
 
 I'm currently running some sealed bearing fans that are actually much quieter 
 than the old bearingless fans by a factor of 3. 
 
 
 

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 Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
-- 
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  __/\__  
 |  | 
 Andalucia  /\  Spain
\/
 |__  __| 
\/



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Re: [expert] CPU temperature question

2003-07-16 Thread Richard Bown 
On Wed, 2003-07-16 at 17:04, Lyvim Xaphir wrote:
 On Wed, 2003-07-16 at 09:59, Lorne wrote:
  On Tuesday 15 July 2003 12:11 pm, Lyvim Xaphir wrote:
   The Areoflows have bearingless fans which are some of the quietest in
   the industry, and ultimately reliable because they are, well,
   bearingless.
  
  If you are referring to the old bushing fans, there is no way they are more 
  reliable. They simply do not last. A sealed bearing will last for years and 
  years. A bushing fan might last 3, but usually 18-24 months is all they can 
  handle.
  
  I'm currently running some sealed bearing fans that are actually much quieter 
  than the old bearingless fans by a factor of 3. 
 
 This is not the same thing.  This is new bearingless technology.  It
 utilizes something called a magnetic tip.  My understanding is that the
 fan blade is suspended by a magnetic field.
 
 In addition to being super quiet, it of course means their reliability
 is much higher.
 
Not entirely, these type of motors are prone to disruptive EM fields.
So if you live in Northern Canada and theres a solar flare, you will
have to be careful to align the PC so that the magnetic fields do not
cancel .
the same can also be said of living under 400KV power lines.
That peak power surge while the ads are on tv could cause your fan to
fail if the magnetic fields are not aligned.
Remember Maxwells rules for determining the position of your PC.
Richard
 
 LX
-- 
Richard Bown [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: [expert] CPU temperature question

2003-07-16 Thread Tom Brinkman 
On Wednesday July 16 2003 01:20 pm, James Sparenberg wrote:
 I'm reminded of a story from a friend of mine.  Had a HDD
 overheat. Couldn't read it.  Stuck it in the freezer overnight.
  And then it would work for about 30 minutes.  Stick it back in
 the freezer... read off more data.  About 5 or 6 cycles of this
 were needed before they could get all the data off of it, and
 then trash it.  (Why I like seagates new drives they run super
 cool.)

 James

  hddtemp-0.3-0.beta4.2mdk (rpm)

[root /tom] $ hddtemp /dev/hd[ab]
/dev/hda: Maxtor 6Y080L0: 67°C
/dev/hdb: MAXTOR 6L040J2: 47°C

I don't know whether to believe this output or not. They're good 
performing HDD's, not a hint of problem. Jeez, I could proly use 
the 80gig for cookin breakfast too (?)
-- 
Tom Brinkman  Corpus Christi, Texas


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Re: [expert] CPU temperature question

2003-07-16 Thread Ronald J. Hall 
On Wednesday 16 July 2003 05:34 pm, Tom Brinkman wrote:

   hddtemp-0.3-0.beta4.2mdk (rpm)

 [root /tom] $ hddtemp /dev/hd[ab]
 /dev/hda: Maxtor 6Y080L0: 67°C
 /dev/hdb: MAXTOR 6L040J2: 47°C

 I don't know whether to believe this output or not. They're good
 performing HDD's, not a hint of problem. Jeez, I could proly use
 the 80gig for cookin breakfast too (?)

Tom, I don't know either - I got this:

[EMAIL PROTECTED] darklord]# hddtemp /dev/hda
Maxtor 6Y080L0
/dev/hda: Maxtor 6Y080L0: 34°C

Hmm.

-- 
  
  /\  
DarkLord 
  \/  


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Re: [expert] CPU temperature question

2003-07-16 Thread Tom Brinkman 
On Wednesday July 16 2003 05:58 pm, Ronald J. Hall wrote:
hddtemp-0.3-0.beta4.2mdk (rpm)
 
  [root /tom] $ hddtemp /dev/hd[ab]
  /dev/hda: Maxtor 6Y080L0: 67°C
  /dev/hdb: MAXTOR 6L040J2: 47°C
 
  I don't know whether to believe this output or not. They're
  good performing HDD's, not a hint of problem. Jeez, I could
  proly use the 80gig for cookin breakfast too (?)


 Tom, I don't know either - I got this:

 [EMAIL PROTECTED] darklord]# hddtemp /dev/hda
 Maxtor 6Y080L0
 /dev/hda: Maxtor 6Y080L0: 34°C

 Hmm.

   Interesting that your temp on the same drive is half what mine 
reports. H ;)   FWIW, I've got good case cooling, a fan on my 
HDD's to boot
-- 
Tom Brinkman  Corpus Christi, Texas


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Re: [expert] CPU temperature question

2003-07-16 Thread James Sparenberg 
On Wed, 2003-07-16 at 14:34, Tom Brinkman wrote:
 On Wednesday July 16 2003 01:20 pm, James Sparenberg wrote:
  I'm reminded of a story from a friend of mine.  Had a HDD
  overheat. Couldn't read it.  Stuck it in the freezer overnight.
   And then it would work for about 30 minutes.  Stick it back in
  the freezer... read off more data.  About 5 or 6 cycles of this
  were needed before they could get all the data off of it, and
  then trash it.  (Why I like seagates new drives they run super
  cool.)
 
  James
 
   hddtemp-0.3-0.beta4.2mdk (rpm)
 
 [root /tom] $ hddtemp /dev/hd[ab]
 /dev/hda: Maxtor 6Y080L0: 67°C
 /dev/hdb: MAXTOR 6L040J2: 47°C
 
 I don't know whether to believe this output or not. They're good 
 performing HDD's, not a hint of problem. Jeez, I could proly use 
 the 80gig for cookin breakfast too (?)

First off I'm willing to bet that hda is above (physically) hdb.  Heat
rises so ...

mine
IC35L080AVVA07-0
/dev/hda: IC35L080AVVA07-0: 42°C
ST380021A
/dev/hdc: ST380021A: 50°C

hdc is over hda.  hda is fujitsu the hdc is seagate.  No air in the
house and 2 fans in the box.  One on the cpu and one on the hda drive. 
There is a 3rd drive in the box (Maxtor) but it doesn't have temp
sensors.

James



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Re: [expert] CPU temperature question

2003-07-16 Thread Lorne 
On Wednesday 16 July 2003 09:04 am, Lyvim Xaphir wrote:
 On Wed, 2003-07-16 at 09:59, Lorne wrote:
  On Tuesday 15 July 2003 12:11 pm, Lyvim Xaphir wrote:
   The Areoflows have bearingless fans which are some of the quietest in
   the industry, and ultimately reliable because they are, well,
   bearingless.
 
  If you are referring to the old bushing fans, there is no way they are
  more reliable. They simply do not last. A sealed bearing will last for
  years and years. A bushing fan might last 3, but usually 18-24 months is
  all they can handle.
 
  I'm currently running some sealed bearing fans that are actually much
  quieter than the old bearingless fans by a factor of 3.

 This is not the same thing.  This is new bearingless technology.  It
 utilizes something called a magnetic tip.  My understanding is that the
 fan blade is suspended by a magnetic field.

Really. Interesting. Must be one heck of a magnet to handle the torque and 
thrust of the fan eh?

 In addition to being super quiet, it of course means their reliability
 is much higher.


 LX


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Re: [expert] CPU temperature question

2003-07-16 Thread Lorne 
On Wednesday 16 July 2003 08:38 am, diego wrote:
 Which mark and model? I'm really concerned about noise and temp...

Well first I have to thank you! I went to look and realized that my fan filter 
was plugged with dust! I don't have any special brands, I just looked for 
ball bearing muffin fans. Mine are CE supers. 

 I'm running a XP 1800+ (1500MHz) downclocked to 1100MHz in summer (40ºC
 in the room!). To me it's quite acceptable cpu temp go up to 60ºC at
 full load with a noise less than 40dB

I have never bothered to find linux drivers to set up the pieces to monitor 
mine real time. Maybe someday. I am sure it is running cooler though thanks t 
o you. :)



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Re: [expert] CPU temperature question

2003-07-16 Thread Lorne 
On Wednesday 16 July 2003 10:53 am, James Sparenberg wrote:
 On Wed, 2003-07-16 at 06:59, Lorne wrote:
  On Tuesday 15 July 2003 12:11 pm, Lyvim Xaphir wrote:
   The Areoflows have bearingless fans which are some of the quietest in
   the industry, and ultimately reliable because they are, well,
   bearingless.
 
  If you are referring to the old bushing fans, there is no way they are
  more reliable. They simply do not last. A sealed bearing will last for
  years and years. A bushing fan might last 3, but usually 18-24 months is
  all they can handle.
 
  I'm currently running some sealed bearing fans that are actually much
  quieter than the old bearingless fans by a factor of 3.

 Lorne,

I think by bearingless they actually do mean sealed bearing.  It's
 more a case of marketing taking a technical term and misusing it to the
 point of extreme obfuscation of term (ie Trusted Computing by M$)
 rather than what it actually does mean.  But you are right the sealed
 bearing fans last seemingly  forever.  Don't know how long because the
 rest of the box gets so far out of date I never use the comp that long.
 (I've got one on a 233mhz pI that is 9 years old).

I'll bet you are right. This reminds me of something someone sent to me 
yesterday. Microsoft is crying foul. They are complaining that Linux isn't 
playing fair. ROFTLMAO

You have GOT to read this! Sorry for being off topic, but ...

http://www.usatoday.com/usatonline/20030714/5320229s.htm

 James


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Re: [expert] CPU temperature question

2003-07-16 Thread James Sparenberg 
On Wed, 2003-07-16 at 19:57, Lorne wrote:
 On Wednesday 16 July 2003 09:04 am, Lyvim Xaphir wrote:
  On Wed, 2003-07-16 at 09:59, Lorne wrote:
   On Tuesday 15 July 2003 12:11 pm, Lyvim Xaphir wrote:
The Areoflows have bearingless fans which are some of the quietest in
the industry, and ultimately reliable because they are, well,
bearingless.
  
   If you are referring to the old bushing fans, there is no way they are
   more reliable. They simply do not last. A sealed bearing will last for
   years and years. A bushing fan might last 3, but usually 18-24 months is
   all they can handle.
  
   I'm currently running some sealed bearing fans that are actually much
   quieter than the old bearingless fans by a factor of 3.
 
  This is not the same thing.  This is new bearingless technology.  It
  utilizes something called a magnetic tip.  My understanding is that the
  fan blade is suspended by a magnetic field.
 
 Really. Interesting. Must be one heck of a magnet to handle the torque and 
 thrust of the fan eh?

Just a thought here.  But if you think about it torque and thrust for
the spinning fan (assuming a constant speed) will be almost 0.  If of
course it is properly balanced.  In such a case it will operate just
like a gyro. (All the weight of the blades on the ends etc.)  As long as
it is constantly in a single plane of operation torque and thrust are
negligible.  Also like a gyro it would heavily resist any attempt to
move it off of it's plane of operation. 

James
  


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Re: [expert] CPU temperature question

2003-07-15 Thread Thomas K. Gamble 
On Thursday 10 July 2003 09:51 am, Tom Brinkman wrote:
 On Thursday July 10 2003 09:19 am, Jack Coates wrote:
  Is it just me, or does 205 to 230 degrees Fahrenheit seem a bit
  excessive for the maximum temperature of a desktop? Yikes! I'm
  nervous enough about the operating temperature of 122 to 158
  degrees Fahrenheit.
 
The AMD docs I read said 90 to 95C internal core is the
   failure limit. They also said to add 10 to 20C to reported
   probe (thermistor) cpu temps, to approximate the internal core
   temp.

 No, I agree. 230F = 110C is a temp I've never seen in AMD docs.
 Even 203F = 95C seems unbelieveable.  But that is the max temp AMD
 specs for processor failure. I think they mean permanently fried ;)
 IMO, AMD's should be kept under 60C core ( 50C from a probe) at
 extreme load, or you're gonna see heat related problems. Lettin 'em
 run hot causes a gradual degradation of the core.

I had a system that was experiencing periodic lockups recently.  Turns 
out the cpu temps were creeping up to around 78C. Improving the case 
cooling brought the temp down to around 63C under load.  Still not 
ideal, but the system is in a safe and has limited cooling.  I may have 
to try a different heatsink fan combo.  This is a Tyan dual cpu mb with 
2100+MPs.  Obviously reliability fails well below 110C, at least for 
this system.


 I only wonder why recently AMD began internal diode temp sensing
 for the core. Something even the first Pentiums have had all along,
 including good motherboard support for it. From what I've read, the
 few recent AMD boards that can read the new AMD diode, don't do it
 very well. I believe that's why Intels are the preferred cpu's for
 servers.

Anyone know which mbs have the core temp sensors?


-- 
Thomas K. Gamble
Los Alamos National Laboratory
Advanced Diagnostics  Instrumentation (C-ADI)
p:505-665-4323 f:505-665-4267
MS-E543


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Re: [expert] CPU temperature question

2003-07-15 Thread Lyvim Xaphir 
On Tue, 2003-07-15 at 14:11, Thomas K. Gamble wrote:

 
 I had a system that was experiencing periodic lockups recently.  Turns 
 out the cpu temps were creeping up to around 78C. Improving the case 
 cooling brought the temp down to around 63C under load.  Still not 
 ideal, but the system is in a safe and has limited cooling.  I may have 
 to try a different heatsink fan combo.  This is a Tyan dual cpu mb with 
 2100+MPs.  Obviously reliability fails well below 110C, at least for 
 this system.
 
 Anyone know which mbs have the core temp sensors?

Well, the core temp sensors are in the core, which is the XP chip
itself.  In other words it's an AMD cpu thing; which is the reason for
the increase in accuracy over the mobo sensors.

If you were at 78C you were at extreme risk of frying your CPU's.  In
fact it's possible that there might have been some damage done.

But you can chill those puppies and you might be able to get stability
under high load with no problem.  What I would do is install two Vantec
Areoflow heat sink fans (they have copper cores, surrounded by a block
of machined aluminum) after cleaning the chip surfaces carefully with a
q-tip soaked in odorless mineral spirits to get rid of the old thermal
compound.  Same for the HSF.

Get some Arctic Silver 3 thermal compound (the best thermal resistance
rating you can get) and use that to install your Areoflows (model number
VA4-C7040).  Arctic Silver 3 is pretty much the best thermal compound
around and as a result of it's superior thermal resistance it can get
your core down by as much as 7C.

The Areoflows have bearingless fans which are some of the quietest in
the industry, and ultimately reliable because they are, well,
bearingless.  It is possible to get a better thermal resistance with
another HSF, but not without going to a bearing based fan, and the HSF's
that outperform the Areoflow don't do it by a significant margin and
plus they weigh a ton cause usually they are solid copper.  That can
possibly put a physical strain on the mobo if it's in a tower case.

 -- 
 Thomas K. Gamble
 Los Alamos National Laboratory
 Advanced Diagnostics  Instrumentation (C-ADI)
 p:505-665-4323 f:505-665-4267
 MS-E543



LX
-- 
°°°
Linux Mandrake 9.1  Kernel 2.4.21-0.13mdk
Filter That, Beotch! --Lanman, MDK Newbie List



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Re: [expert] CPU temperature question

2003-07-15 Thread Tom Brinkman 
On Tuesday July 15 2003 01:11 pm, Thomas K. Gamble wrote:
 Anyone know which mbs have the core temp sensors?

   From reading, not experience  a few Asus, Gigabyte and a 
coupl'a others for new AMD XP's. IIRC, I read it to Tom's Hardware 
Guide. Check there or Google. 
-- 
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Re: [expert] CPU temperature question

2003-07-15 Thread Greg Meyer 
On Tuesday 15 July 2003 02:11 pm, Thomas K. Gamble wrote:
 Anyone know which mbs have the core temp sensors?

It's the processor that has the sensor, the motherboard must have the ability 
to read it, and then libsensors has to be able to translate it.  For 
instance, my Soyo KT400 Dragon Ultra has the ability to read the on chip 
diode, but it uses the lm90 chip which is not supported by lm-sensors.
-- 
/g

Outside of a dog, a man's best friend is a book, inside
a dog it's too dark to read -Groucho Marx

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Re: [expert] CPU temperature question

2003-07-11 Thread Vox 
On September 1993 plus 3599 days Robert Crawford wrote:

 On Friday 11 July 2003 12:35 am, Vox wrote:
 On September 1993 plus 3599 days James Sparenberg wrote:
  Vox,
Last ditch if you get worried.  open the side and put a small desk fan
  right on it.  From the hardware standpoint.  make sure cables (like
  ribbon cables) are clear of the fan.  Also you might consider case fans
  in addition to the volcano fan.  (I love volcano myself.)

   I'm not really worried about the temp...having read the docs from
   AMD, I won't worry till it hits 65C, which it has never done :) And
   yes, I like the volcano...has worked well for me...and I do have a
   case fan at the front and a small fan on the mboard itself...I've
   been thinking about getting a second case fan for the back, but am
   too damn lazy to go find one :)

   Vox

 It's been my experience with numerous AMD cpus that anything over 45c. is 
 likely to start causing random misc. problems. I always start feeling 
 apprehensive when my temps go above 40c. Why AMD states up to 90c. is beyond 
 me. The one time I got above 50c. the system became unusable- random lockups, 
 shut-down problems, various hanging with programs, etc. Better cooling fixed 
 everything instantly, so it was obviously caused by high temps.

  If a box starts locking up on me, the first thing I do is point a
  big f'ing fan at it and call my friend to get him over to start
  messing with bigger fans inside...but this box goes months without
  reboots (22 days currently...last reboot due to an errant move when
  cleaning up behind the TV...killed the switch that feeds the wall
  sockets for the whole room sigh) and I haven't experienced any
  problems. I *do* get the point of being careful with the
  temp...thing is...as long as it stays constant and I have no
  problems with the box, I see no real reason to worry...my case is
  big (mid tower with 6 open bays), with good airflow inside and
  behind, and so on...so I don't really worry much :)

  Vox, who still hates HW

-- 
Think of the Linux community as a niche economy isolated by its beliefs.  Kind
of like the Amish, except that our religion requires us to use _higher_
technology than everyone else.   -- Donald B. Marti Jr.


pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature

RE: [expert] CPU temperature question

2003-07-11 Thread Frankie 
interesting...

I have an XP 1800+ server in a room that in summer reaches 40c.. (its an
office in the top floor of  an industrial building)

meaning that the coldest the CPU can hope to get with fans is over 40
degree's..(and frequently the temp is between 55-70 degrees C

That machine has a 6500rpm fan and a copper based heatsink on it..but the
temp still gets up there..

Its stability has been amazing.. it currently has an uptime of 98 days and
has
never actually crashed, the only reason the uptime is not higher is because
I
occasionally upgrade the kernel etc..

Its running MDK7.2...


rgds

Franki

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Robert Crawford
Sent: Friday, 11 July 2003 12:56 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [expert] CPU temperature question


On Friday 11 July 2003 12:35 am, Vox wrote:
 On September 1993 plus 3599 days James Sparenberg wrote:
  Vox,
Last ditch if you get worried.  open the side and put a small desk fan
  right on it.  From the hardware standpoint.  make sure cables (like
  ribbon cables) are clear of the fan.  Also you might consider case fans
  in addition to the volcano fan.  (I love volcano myself.)

   I'm not really worried about the temp...having read the docs from
   AMD, I won't worry till it hits 65C, which it has never done :) And
   yes, I like the volcano...has worked well for me...and I do have a
   case fan at the front and a small fan on the mboard itself...I've
   been thinking about getting a second case fan for the back, but am
   too damn lazy to go find one :)

   Vox

It's been my experience with numerous AMD cpus that anything over 45c. is
likely to start causing random misc. problems. I always start feeling
apprehensive when my temps go above 40c. Why AMD states up to 90c. is beyond
me. The one time I got above 50c. the system became unusable- random
lockups,
shut-down problems, various hanging with programs, etc. Better cooling fixed
everything instantly, so it was obviously caused by high temps.

wrc1944




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Re: [expert] CPU temperature question

2003-07-11 Thread Vox 
On September 1993 plus 3600 days Lyvim Xaphir wrote:

 I considered the Volcano 7 and the Volcano 9 in the following URL while
 doing research on HSF's, before I purchased one, and although their
 results were impressive the reason I went with the Areoflow was because
 it beat those two, plus the majority of the others, both in thermal
 resistance and noise rating.

  I guess I'll bug my HW guru about one of these next time I change my
  CPU/mboard combo...thanks for the URL :)

  Vox

-- 
Think of the Linux community as a niche economy isolated by its beliefs.  Kind
of like the Amish, except that our religion requires us to use _higher_
technology than everyone else.   -- Donald B. Marti Jr.


pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: [expert] CPU temperature question

2003-07-11 Thread Lyvim Xaphir 
On Fri, 2003-07-11 at 00:15, James Sparenberg wrote:
 On Thu, 2003-07-10 at 15:55, Vox wrote:

   The stock fan that comes with the Athlon is not the best deal in the
   world.  The real deal is a Vantec Areoflow VA4-C7040.  That's a
   fantastic piece of engineering, and it doesn't cost an arm and a
   leg.
  
I use a Volcano 6, IIRC (I didn't build this thing, a friend did...I
don't open computers...HW sucks :) And I think it's doing a very
good job, considering the fact that the room I'm in is at 42C at the
moment :)
  
  
   To see what is happening, download Prime95 (mprime2212.tar.gz) from
  
   http://www.mersenne.org/freesoft.htm
  
I'll check that out, thanks for the suggestion...as I said, HW is
not my stuff...one of my other geek friends deals with my HW, I deal
with his SW :)
  
Thanks for the bunch of tips...I'll do the SW side checks and I'll
pass the HW stuff to my friend...thanks bunches :)
  
Vox

You're welcome.  Prime95 is an overclocker's tool.  It will help when
you are attempting to get the CPU to maximum load.  I have found here by
experimentation that it is very hard for me to max the CPU out to the
highest temp by just doing different tasks in X, no matter it seems what
I do.  There's no escape from the Prime95 torture test, tho. ;)

 
 Vox,
   Last ditch if you get worried.  open the side and put a small desk fan
 right on it.  From the hardware standpoint.  make sure cables (like
 ribbon cables) are clear of the fan.  Also you might consider case fans
 in addition to the volcano fan.  (I love volcano myself.)
 
 James
 

I considered the Volcano 7 and the Volcano 9 in the following URL while
doing research on HSF's, before I purchased one, and although their
results were impressive the reason I went with the Areoflow was because
it beat those two, plus the majority of the others, both in thermal
resistance and noise rating.

http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/20030113/cooler5-39.html#hot_or_cold_thermal_resistance_is_decisive

Note that the Volcano 7 and 9 are newer models than what Vox presently
has.  

If the lm_sensors is picking up his temp from the mobo sensors, then
there may be as much as a 10 - 20C difference between the actual core
temp and what's being detected.  That means that a 90C processor failure
temp could be reached long before the mobo sensors get anywhere near
90C.  His ambient temperature is already high, cause of no air
conditioning.  So, without an HSF upgrade, the open case and fan are a
good suggestion.

--LX


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Re: [expert] CPU temperature question

2003-07-11 Thread James Sparenberg 
On Thu, 2003-07-10 at 22:48, Vox wrote:
 
  It's been my experience with numerous AMD cpus that anything over 45c. is 
  likely to start causing random misc. problems. I always start feeling 
  apprehensive when my temps go above 40c. Why AMD states up to 90c. is beyond 
  me. The one time I got above 50c. the system became unusable- random lockups, 
  shut-down problems, various hanging with programs, etc. Better cooling fixed 
  everything instantly, so it was obviously caused by high temps.
 
   If a box starts locking up on me, the first thing I do is point a
   big f'ing fan at it and call my friend to get him over to start
   messing with bigger fans inside...but this box goes months without
   reboots (22 days currently...last reboot due to an errant move when
   cleaning up behind the TV...killed the switch that feeds the wall
   sockets for the whole room sigh) and I haven't experienced any
   problems. I *do* get the point of being careful with the
   temp...thing is...as long as it stays constant and I have no
   problems with the box, I see no real reason to worry...my case is
   big (mid tower with 6 open bays), with good airflow inside and
   behind, and so on...so I don't really worry much :)
 
   Vox, who still hates HW

I am however reminded of an early version of internal sensors and a
system that was reporting a core temp of 120c ... It wasn't, but the
software doing the translation added when it should have subtracted
from what I'm told.  That was one hot k6 *grin*

James



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Re: [expert] CPU temperature question

2003-07-11 Thread Lyvim Xaphir 
On Fri, 2003-07-11 at 00:55, Robert Crawford wrote:
 On Friday 11 July 2003 12:35 am, Vox wrote:
  On September 1993 plus 3599 days James Sparenberg wrote:
   Vox,
 Last ditch if you get worried.  open the side and put a small desk fan
   right on it.  From the hardware standpoint.  make sure cables (like
   ribbon cables) are clear of the fan.  Also you might consider case fans
   in addition to the volcano fan.  (I love volcano myself.)
 
I'm not really worried about the temp...having read the docs from
AMD, I won't worry till it hits 65C, which it has never done :) And
yes, I like the volcano...has worked well for me...and I do have a
case fan at the front and a small fan on the mboard itself...I've
been thinking about getting a second case fan for the back, but am
too damn lazy to go find one :)
 
Vox
 
 It's been my experience with numerous AMD cpus that anything over 45c. is 
 likely to start causing random misc. problems. I always start feeling 
 apprehensive when my temps go above 40c. Why AMD states up to 90c. is beyond 
 me. The one time I got above 50c. the system became unusable- random lockups, 
 shut-down problems, various hanging with programs, etc. Better cooling fixed 
 everything instantly, so it was obviously caused by high temps.
 
 wrc1944
 

This is very true.  It's also a fact that higher operating temperatures
cause AMD's to operate increasingly hotter as they get older and also
shorten the life of the CPU.  Once the CPU accumulates damage it cannot
be un-damaged.  Therefore I made sure that this new XP2100 I got the
other day had the best cooling possible, cause I want the processor in
mint condition on up to the day it goes on to greener pastures.

I also glance with great suspicion at the AMD failure temp.  I think
that it should be made clearer to users that this is a core temp
measurement, which is very different from a mobo sensor temp
measurement.  There can be 10 to 20 deg C difference between the two,
which means you can be frying your CPU and not even realize it.  I've
got an XP2100 and (it being new) it probably has a core temp diode
sensor.  But I know for a fact that my system is not taking advantage of
that, and that lm_sensors is reporting from the mobo sensor.  Therefore
to me it's reflexive it to calculate the error of margin in.  The small
investment in HSF research and hardware is well worth the peace of mind.

--LX
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Re: [expert] CPU temperature question

2003-07-11 Thread Vox 
On September 1993 plus 3600 days Lyvim Xaphir wrote:

 On Fri, 2003-07-11 at 00:55, Robert Crawford wrote:
 On Friday 11 July 2003 12:35 am, Vox wrote:
  On September 1993 plus 3599 days James Sparenberg wrote:
   Vox,
 Last ditch if you get worried.  open the side and put a small desk fan
   right on it.  From the hardware standpoint.  make sure cables (like
   ribbon cables) are clear of the fan.  Also you might consider case fans
   in addition to the volcano fan.  (I love volcano myself.)
 
I'm not really worried about the temp...having read the docs from
AMD, I won't worry till it hits 65C, which it has never done :) And
yes, I like the volcano...has worked well for me...and I do have a
case fan at the front and a small fan on the mboard itself...I've
been thinking about getting a second case fan for the back, but am
too damn lazy to go find one :)
 
Vox
 
 It's been my experience with numerous AMD cpus that anything over 45c. is 
 likely to start causing random misc. problems. I always start feeling 
 apprehensive when my temps go above 40c. Why AMD states up to 90c. is beyond 
 me. The one time I got above 50c. the system became unusable- random lockups, 
 shut-down problems, various hanging with programs, etc. Better cooling fixed 
 everything instantly, so it was obviously caused by high temps.
 
 wrc1944
 

 measurement.  There can be 10 to 20 deg C difference between the
 two,

  Which is why I see 65C as the get-worried temp on my box...even with
  a 20C difference, it's 85C...*should* be enough to survive :)

 to me it's reflexive it to calculate the error of margin in.  The small
 investment in HSF research and hardware is well worth the peace of
 mind.

  I absolutely agree..which is why back then I got the volcano 6...and
  do bug my HW friend about making sure to keep the temp in reign. The
  other thing is...I never keep a CPU/mboard combo for more than 6-8
  months...I get rid of the things as fast as I can...mostly because I
  *know* I have heavy hands for HW and it's better for me to get rid
  of it when its still under warranty :)

  Vox

-- 
Think of the Linux community as a niche economy isolated by its beliefs.  Kind
of like the Amish, except that our religion requires us to use _higher_
technology than everyone else.   -- Donald B. Marti Jr.


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Description: PGP signature

Re: [expert] CPU temperature question

2003-07-10 Thread Vox 
On September 1993 plus 3598 days [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hello All,

 After playing with Ksensors tonight I'm now wondering what the threshold 
 temperatures for the CPU and Mother board should be.

 I have an AMD XP2000+ CPU which is currently running at 60 degrees C while the 
 Mother Board temperature is 24 degrees C. I remember that these temperatures 
 were quite a bit higher during Summer.

  Those are more or less the temps I see here on the same CPU...since
  it hasn't let the blue smoke come out, I guess it's about right :)

  Vox

-- 
Think of the Linux community as a niche economy isolated by its beliefs.  Kind
of like the Amish, except that our religion requires us to use _higher_
technology than everyone else.   -- Donald B. Marti Jr.


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Description: PGP signature

Re: [expert] CPU temperature question

2003-07-10 Thread Joerg Mertin 
Hehe :)

Got a Hush-PC on my Desk, M1 with nemiah Core. Actual Processing 
tempoerature: 57 C :)

Didn't manage to get the lm_sensors stuff working on my Asus A7N8X Delux 
board - so can't tell you what I'll see on my AMD box.

Cheers

	Joerg

Vox wrote:
On September 1993 plus 3598 days [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Hello All,

After playing with Ksensors tonight I'm now wondering what the threshold 
temperatures for the CPU and Mother board should be.

I have an AMD XP2000+ CPU which is currently running at 60 degrees C while the 
Mother Board temperature is 24 degrees C. I remember that these temperatures 
were quite a bit higher during Summer.


  Those are more or less the temps I see here on the same CPU...since
  it hasn't let the blue smoke come out, I guess it's about right :)
--

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Re: [expert] CPU temperature question

2003-07-10 Thread Thomas Backlund 
From: Phil [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Hello All,

 After playing with Ksensors tonight I'm now wondering what the threshold
 temperatures for the CPU and Mother board should be.

 I have an AMD XP2000+ CPU which is currently running at 60 degrees C while
the
 Mother Board temperature is 24 degrees C. I remember that these
temperatures
 were quite a bit higher during Summer.


If I remember the AMD documentation correctly,
it was stated that anything below 70 degrees C is acceptable,
but as far as the core goes it's temperature limit is somewhere
between 90 and 110 degrees C sepending on manufacturing batches ...

Of course running with those temeratures will shorten the life of the
components,
but hey... then you have a reason to upgrade ;-)

Regards

Thomas



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Re: [expert] CPU temperature question

2003-07-10 Thread Thomas Backlund 
From: Joerg Mertin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Hehe :)

 Got a Hush-PC on my Desk, M1 with nemiah Core. Actual Processing
 tempoerature: 57 C :)

 Didn't manage to get the lm_sensors stuff working on my Asus A7N8X Delux
 board - so can't tell you what I'll see on my AMD box.


As for nForce2 lm_sensors / i2c support, it will work as soon as v 2.8.0
goes stable...
I'm going to pull the files from cvs soon, and see if it's stable enough to
use...
And when the MDK 9.2 is released I hope to have it all in place...

Best Regards

Thomas



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Re: [expert] CPU temperature question

2003-07-10 Thread Seppo Jarvinen 
My main computer with AMD Duron 1.3GHz (Morgan core) is now running with
CPU Temp 43C, MB temp 33C, ambient room temp 23C with 100% cpu load
([EMAIL PROTECTED])

Cooling is handled by 1 19dB 80mm fan in front as intake, 1 24dB 80mm in
back as out. and CPU cooler is Speeze RaptorCool I. The computer is
afaict silent (below ambient noise level)

AMD CPUs have threshold of 90C but suggested max operating temp of 75C

On Thu, 2003-07-10 at 11:08, Joerg Mertin wrote:
 Hehe :)
 
 Got a Hush-PC on my Desk, M1 with nemiah Core. Actual Processing 
 tempoerature: 57 C :)
 
 Didn't manage to get the lm_sensors stuff working on my Asus A7N8X Delux 
 board - so can't tell you what I'll see on my AMD box.
 
 Cheers
 
   Joerg
 
 
 Vox wrote:
  On September 1993 plus 3598 days [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
  
 Hello All,
 
 After playing with Ksensors tonight I'm now wondering what the threshold 
 temperatures for the CPU and Mother board should be.
 
 I have an AMD XP2000+ CPU which is currently running at 60 degrees C while the 
 Mother Board temperature is 24 degrees C. I remember that these temperatures 
 were quite a bit higher during Summer.
  
  
Those are more or less the temps I see here on the same CPU...since
it hasn't let the blue smoke come out, I guess it's about right :)
-- 
Seppo Jarvinen,[EMAIL PROTECTED]  Never trust an operating system
Kenttäkatu 9 A 2,76100 PIEKSÄMÄKI you don't have sources for.
GSM +358 40 568 1756  You never know what you're facing
Power the World, With Linux!  unless you dare to LOOK AT IT.
  Technology lies on the leading edge



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Re: [expert] CPU temperature question

2003-07-10 Thread Joerg Mertin 
Cool news.

Thx for notifying us :)

Cheers

	Joerg

Thomas Backlund wrote:
From: Joerg Mertin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Hehe :)

Got a Hush-PC on my Desk, M1 with nemiah Core. Actual Processing
tempoerature: 57 C :)
Didn't manage to get the lm_sensors stuff working on my Asus A7N8X Delux
board - so can't tell you what I'll see on my AMD box.


As for nForce2 lm_sensors / i2c support, it will work as soon as v 2.8.0
goes stable...
I'm going to pull the files from cvs soon, and see if it's stable enough to
use...
And when the MDK 9.2 is released I hope to have it all in place...
--

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Re: [expert] CPU temperature question

2003-07-10 Thread ed tharp 
On Thu, 2003-07-10 at 02:38, Vox wrote:
 On September 1993 plus 3598 days [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  Hello All,
 
  After playing with Ksensors tonight I'm now wondering what the threshold 
  temperatures for the CPU and Mother board should be.
 
  I have an AMD XP2000+ CPU which is currently running at 60 degrees C while the 
  Mother Board temperature is 24 degrees C. I remember that these temperatures 
  were quite a bit higher during Summer.
 
   Those are more or less the temps I see here on the same CPU...since
   it hasn't let the blue smoke come out, I guess it's about right :)
 
   Vox

Blue? only Blue matters? damn, I have been letting the grey smoke out
all the time,,, and now I have to try to let the blue out... those
little black smoke boxes sure hold a lot of smoke some times,,, but damn
I did not know it had to be Blue... g


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Re: [expert] CPU temperature question

2003-07-10 Thread Tom Brinkman 
On Thursday July 10 2003 05:52 am, Thomas Backlund wrote:
  I have an AMD XP2000+ CPU which is currently running at 60
  degrees C while

 the

  Mother Board temperature is 24 degrees C. I remember that these

 temperatures

  were quite a bit higher during Summer.

 If I remember the AMD documentation correctly,
 it was stated that anything below 70 degrees C is acceptable,
 but as far as the core goes it's temperature limit is somewhere
 between 90 and 110 degrees C sepending on manufacturing batches
 ...

 The AMD docs I read said 90 to 95C internal core is the failure 
limit. They also said to add 10 to 20C to reported probe 
(thermistor) cpu temps, to approximate the internal core temp.
Something overclockers have long known. So 60C from a probe could be 
as high as 80C core temp. Unless that's under extreme load (ie, 
cpuburn, 100% load), it's too high. If 60C is reported by a 
motherboard reading the cpu's internal diode, then 60C is OK. 

   From a probe the reported temp would need to be at least under 
60, and maybe under 50C, to qualify as 'acceptable'. IME, for 
motherboards which use a probe, +10C is probly OK for temps read 
from a cpu pin. Use +20C if a contact thermistor is used. Most 
newer boards read from a pin. There's a few motherboards in the 
last year, that can read the internal diode AMD began putting in 
their XP cpu's since 6/10/02. On those boards the reported temp is 
the core temp. With either accurate diode, or approximate/adjusted 
probe reporting, you can expect the temps to go up as the cpu ages. 
Say about 5C after around 18 months.
-- 
Tom Brinkman  Corpus Christi, Texas


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Re: [expert] CPU temperature question

2003-07-10 Thread Jack Coates 
On Wed, 2003-07-09 at 05:12, Phil wrote:
 Hello All,
 
 After playing with Ksensors tonight I'm now wondering what the threshold 
 temperatures for the CPU and Mother board should be.
 
 I have an AMD XP2000+ CPU which is currently running at 60 degrees C while the 
 Mother Board temperature is 24 degrees C. I remember that these temperatures 
 were quite a bit higher during Summer.

As everyone else has said, AMDs run very hot. As long as you're playing
with lm_sensors, have a look at lmcgi :-)
http://www.monkeynoodle.org/statistics for an example. The case fan says
zero because I'm not using the three-pin motherboard connector right
now. 
-- 
Jack Coates
Monkeynoodle: A Scientific Venture...
http://www.monkeynoodle.org/resume.html


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Re: [expert] CPU temperature question

2003-07-10 Thread Ronald J. Hall 
On Thursday 10 July 2003 08:49 am, Tom Brinkman wrote:
 On Thursday July 10 2003 05:52 am, Thomas Backlund wrote:
   I have an AMD XP2000+ CPU which is currently running at 60
   degrees C while
 
  the
 
   Mother Board temperature is 24 degrees C. I remember that these
 
  temperatures
 
   were quite a bit higher during Summer.
 
  If I remember the AMD documentation correctly,
  it was stated that anything below 70 degrees C is acceptable,
  but as far as the core goes it's temperature limit is somewhere
  between 90 and 110 degrees C sepending on manufacturing batches
  ...

  The AMD docs I read said 90 to 95C internal core is the failure
 limit. They also said to add 10 to 20C to reported probe
 (thermistor) cpu temps, to approximate the internal core temp.
 Something overclockers have long known. So 60C from a probe could be
 as high as 80C core temp. Unless that's under extreme load (ie,
 cpuburn, 100% load), it's too high. If 60C is reported by a
 motherboard reading the cpu's internal diode, then 60C is OK.

From a probe the reported temp would need to be at least under
 60, and maybe under 50C, to qualify as 'acceptable'. IME, for
 motherboards which use a probe, +10C is probly OK for temps read
 from a cpu pin. Use +20C if a contact thermistor is used. Most
 newer boards read from a pin. There's a few motherboards in the
 last year, that can read the internal diode AMD began putting in
 their XP cpu's since 6/10/02. On those boards the reported temp is
 the core temp. With either accurate diode, or approximate/adjusted
 probe reporting, you can expect the temps to go up as the cpu ages.
 Say about 5C after around 18 months.

Don't know about everyone else, but with my XP2100, when I was running at 50C; 
55C under load, as reported by lmsensors, I had intermittent crashes, 
especially with games. So I think the part about the cpu core actually 
running quite a bit hotter than what is reported is true.

Since I made a few mods and its running at about 38C now, the crashes have 
disappeared. YMMV, as the venerable T. Brinkman says... :-)

-- 
  
  /\  
DarkLord 
  \/  


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Re: [expert] CPU temperature question

2003-07-10 Thread Jack Coates 
Is it just me, or does 205 to 230 degrees Fahrenheit seem a bit
excessive for the maximum temperature of a desktop? Yikes! I'm nervous
enough about the operating temperature of 122 to 158 degrees Fahrenheit.

  The AMD docs I read said 90 to 95C internal core is the failure 
 limit. They also said to add 10 to 20C to reported probe 
 (thermistor) cpu temps, to approximate the internal core temp.
 Something overclockers have long known. So 60C from a probe could be 
 as high as 80C core temp. Unless that's under extreme load (ie, 
 cpuburn, 100% load), it's too high. If 60C is reported by a 
 motherboard reading the cpu's internal diode, then 60C is OK. 
 
From a probe the reported temp would need to be at least under 
 60, and maybe under 50C, to qualify as 'acceptable'. IME, for 
 motherboards which use a probe, +10C is probly OK for temps read 
 from a cpu pin. Use +20C if a contact thermistor is used. Most 
 newer boards read from a pin. There's a few motherboards in the 
 last year, that can read the internal diode AMD began putting in 
 their XP cpu's since 6/10/02. On those boards the reported temp is 
 the core temp. With either accurate diode, or approximate/adjusted 
 probe reporting, you can expect the temps to go up as the cpu ages. 
 Say about 5C after around 18 months.
-- 
Jack Coates
Monkeynoodle: A Scientific Venture...
http://www.monkeynoodle.org/resume.html


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Re: [expert] CPU temperature question

2003-07-10 Thread Lyvim Xaphir 
On Thu, 2003-07-10 at 08:43, Jack Coates wrote:
 On Wed, 2003-07-09 at 05:12, Phil wrote:
  Hello All,
  
  After playing with Ksensors tonight I'm now wondering what the threshold 
  temperatures for the CPU and Mother board should be.
  
  I have an AMD XP2000+ CPU which is currently running at 60 degrees C while the 
  Mother Board temperature is 24 degrees C. I remember that these temperatures 
  were quite a bit higher during Summer.
 
 As everyone else has said, AMDs run very hot. As long as you're playing
 with lm_sensors, have a look at lmcgi :-)
 http://www.monkeynoodle.org/statistics for an example. The case fan says
 zero because I'm not using the three-pin motherboard connector right
 now. 

As you all can see, Jack's idle temp seems to be the low 40's, it was
42C whenever I checked it.  So he is exactly where he is supposed to be
tempwise.  60C is way too high.

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Re: [expert] CPU temperature question

2003-07-10 Thread Lyvim Xaphir 
On Thu, 2003-07-10 at 10:19, Jack Coates wrote:
 Is it just me, or does 205 to 230 degrees Fahrenheit seem a bit
 excessive for the maximum temperature of a desktop? Yikes! I'm nervous
 enough about the operating temperature of 122 to 158 degrees Fahrenheit.
 

Overclockers usually don't like a CPU load temp to go over 60C.  If it's
operating at that or over during load then it's likely that the life of
the CPU is being shortened.

I've got a Vantec Areoflow VA4-C7040 HSF with a substandard heat
compound (got Arctic Silver 3 on order) and even with a crappy heat
grease and high core/IO voltages, the under-load temperature of the CPU
never exceeds 60C.  Remember, that's with overclocking.

A stock system should NEVER exceed or even approach 60C load.  The
target load temp for stock systems is around 50C.  As peace of mind is
pretty cheap these days in the form of better cooling, it's best to
remember that 50C reported from mobo sensors can be worse than 60C from
CPU core diode sensor.

For me, peace of mind is a Vantec Areoflow and Arctic Silver 3 thermal
compound.


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Re: [expert] CPU temperature question

2003-07-10 Thread Tom Brinkman 
On Thursday July 10 2003 09:19 am, Jack Coates wrote:
 Is it just me, or does 205 to 230 degrees Fahrenheit seem a bit
 excessive for the maximum temperature of a desktop? Yikes! I'm
 nervous enough about the operating temperature of 122 to 158
 degrees Fahrenheit.

   The AMD docs I read said 90 to 95C internal core is the
  failure limit. They also said to add 10 to 20C to reported
  probe (thermistor) cpu temps, to approximate the internal core
  temp.

No, I agree. 230F = 110C is a temp I've never seen in AMD docs. 
Even 203F = 95C seems unbelieveable.  But that is the max temp AMD 
specs for processor failure. I think they mean permanently fried ;) 
IMO, AMD's should be kept under 60C core ( 50C from a probe) at 
extreme load, or you're gonna see heat related problems. Lettin 'em 
run hot causes a gradual degradation of the core.

I only wonder why recently AMD began internal diode temp sensing 
for the core. Something even the first Pentiums have had all along, 
including good motherboard support for it. From what I've read, the 
few recent AMD boards that can read the new AMD diode, don't do it 
very well. I believe that's why Intels are the preferred cpu's for 
servers.
-- 
Tom Brinkman  Corpus Christi, Texas


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Re: [expert] CPU temperature question

2003-07-10 Thread James Sparenberg 
On Thu, 2003-07-10 at 05:03, ed tharp wrote:
 On Thu, 2003-07-10 at 02:38, Vox wrote:
  On September 1993 plus 3598 days [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
   Hello All,
  
   After playing with Ksensors tonight I'm now wondering what the threshold 
   temperatures for the CPU and Mother board should be.
  
   I have an AMD XP2000+ CPU which is currently running at 60 degrees C while the 
   Mother Board temperature is 24 degrees C. I remember that these temperatures 
   were quite a bit higher during Summer.
  
Those are more or less the temps I see here on the same CPU...since
it hasn't let the blue smoke come out, I guess it's about right :)
  
Vox
 
 Blue? only Blue matters? damn, I have been letting the grey smoke out
 all the time,,, and now I have to try to let the blue out... those
 little black smoke boxes sure hold a lot of smoke some times,,, but damn
 I did not know it had to be Blue... 

Whatever you do  don't let the yellow smoke out unless the windows
are open stuff has a really bad sulphur odor to it. *grin*
 
 
 
 __
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Re: [expert] CPU temperature question

2003-07-10 Thread James Sparenberg 
On Thu, 2003-07-10 at 07:19, Jack Coates wrote:
 Is it just me, or does 205 to 230 degrees Fahrenheit seem a bit
 excessive for the maximum temperature of a desktop? Yikes! I'm nervous
 enough about the operating temperature of 122 to 158 degrees Fahrenheit.

No joke..
Now you know why they don't put these chips out for laptops They
could advertise them as combination computers and stove tops. 

James



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Re: [expert] CPU temperature question

2003-07-10 Thread James Sparenberg 
On Thu, 2003-07-10 at 03:54, Thomas Backlund wrote:
 From: Joerg Mertin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Hehe :)
 
  Got a Hush-PC on my Desk, M1 with nemiah Core. Actual Processing
  tempoerature: 57 C :)
 
  Didn't manage to get the lm_sensors stuff working on my Asus A7N8X Delux
  board - so can't tell you what I'll see on my AMD box.
 
 
 As for nForce2 lm_sensors / i2c support, it will work as soon as v 2.8.0
 goes stable...
 I'm going to pull the files from cvs soon, and see if it's stable enough to
 use...
 And when the MDK 9.2 is released I hope to have it all in place...
 
 Best Regards
 
 Thomas

Now if you can just pull some magic and get the manf's to set things up
right you'll really be singing  Thanks for the effort.

James

 
 
 
 
 __
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Re: [expert] CPU temperature question

2003-07-10 Thread James Sparenberg 
On Thu, 2003-07-10 at 05:43, Jack Coates wrote:
 On Wed, 2003-07-09 at 05:12, Phil wrote:
  Hello All,
  
  After playing with Ksensors tonight I'm now wondering what the threshold 
  temperatures for the CPU and Mother board should be.
  
  I have an AMD XP2000+ CPU which is currently running at 60 degrees C while the 
  Mother Board temperature is 24 degrees C. I remember that these temperatures 
  were quite a bit higher during Summer.
 
 As everyone else has said, AMDs run very hot. As long as you're playing
 with lm_sensors, have a look at lmcgi :-)
 http://www.monkeynoodle.org/statistics for an example. The case fan says
 zero because I'm not using the three-pin motherboard connector right
 now. 

Dunno about the fans but from what I saw... you may need to look at your
power supply  core voltage was at 1.71v.

James



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Re: [expert] CPU temperature question

2003-07-10 Thread Jack Coates 
On Thu, 2003-07-10 at 13:14, James Sparenberg wrote:
 On Thu, 2003-07-10 at 05:43, Jack Coates wrote:
  On Wed, 2003-07-09 at 05:12, Phil wrote:
   Hello All,
   
   After playing with Ksensors tonight I'm now wondering what the threshold 
   temperatures for the CPU and Mother board should be.
   
   I have an AMD XP2000+ CPU which is currently running at 60 degrees C while the 
   Mother Board temperature is 24 degrees C. I remember that these temperatures 
   were quite a bit higher during Summer.
  
  As everyone else has said, AMDs run very hot. As long as you're playing
  with lm_sensors, have a look at lmcgi :-)
  http://www.monkeynoodle.org/statistics for an example. The case fan says
  zero because I'm not using the three-pin motherboard connector right
  now. 
 
 Dunno about the fans but from what I saw... you may need to look at your
 power supply  core voltage was at 1.71v.
 
 James

Yeah, I've been ignoring that for quite a while. I think when this box
dies I'll just start over and do it right.
-- 
Jack Coates
Monkeynoodle: A Scientific Venture...
http://www.monkeynoodle.org/resume.html


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Re: [expert] CPU temperature question

2003-07-10 Thread Vox 
On September 1993 plus 3599 days Lyvim Xaphir wrote:

 On Thu, 2003-07-10 at 02:38, Vox wrote:
 On September 1993 plus 3598 days [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  Hello All,
 
  After playing with Ksensors tonight I'm now wondering what the threshold 
  temperatures for the CPU and Mother board should be.
 
  I have an AMD XP2000+ CPU which is currently running at 60
  degrees C while the Mother Board temperature is 24 degrees C. I
  remember that these temperatures were quite a bit higher during
  Summer.
 
   Those are more or less the temps I see here on the same
   CPU...since it hasn't let the blue smoke come out, I guess it's
   about right :)
 
   Vox

 Vox,

 60C is a little too hot.  That's 140 deg F.  You should be getting
 better temps than that.  You might be shortening the life of your
 CPU.

  Mmmm...depends on several factors...one is the ambient temp...which
  is hot like hell here in Monterrey, specially in places without AC,
  like my house...the real strange thing is that CPU load during
  summer doesn't vary the CPU temp more than a couple of C
  degrees...yesterday, with about 6% of CPU in use (X, Enlightenment,
  2 emacs, xchat, gaim, licq, a few Eterms...normal stuff) it was at
  55C...today, with 95% of CPU in use for the last 8 or 9 hours, the
  temp is 57C...this box has behaved like that since january when I
  got it :)

 The stock fan that comes with the Athlon is not the best deal in the
 world.  The real deal is a Vantec Areoflow VA4-C7040.  That's a
 fantastic piece of engineering, and it doesn't cost an arm and a
 leg.

  I use a Volcano 6, IIRC (I didn't build this thing, a friend did...I
  don't open computers...HW sucks :) And I think it's doing a very
  good job, considering the fact that the room I'm in is at 42C at the
  moment :)


 To see what is happening, download Prime95 (mprime2212.tar.gz) from

 http://www.mersenne.org/freesoft.htm

  I'll check that out, thanks for the suggestion...as I said, HW is
  not my stuff...one of my other geek friends deals with my HW, I deal
  with his SW :)

  Thanks for the bunch of tips...I'll do the SW side checks and I'll
  pass the HW stuff to my friend...thanks bunches :)

  Vox

-- 
Think of the Linux community as a niche economy isolated by its beliefs.  Kind
of like the Amish, except that our religion requires us to use _higher_
technology than everyone else.   -- Donald B. Marti Jr.


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Description: PGP signature

Re: [expert] CPU temperature question

2003-07-10 Thread James Sparenberg 
On Thu, 2003-07-10 at 15:55, Vox wrote:
 On September 1993 plus 3599 days Lyvim Xaphir wrote:
 
  On Thu, 2003-07-10 at 02:38, Vox wrote:
  On September 1993 plus 3598 days [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
   Hello All,
  
   After playing with Ksensors tonight I'm now wondering what the threshold 
   temperatures for the CPU and Mother board should be.
  
   I have an AMD XP2000+ CPU which is currently running at 60
   degrees C while the Mother Board temperature is 24 degrees C. I
   remember that these temperatures were quite a bit higher during
   Summer.
  
Those are more or less the temps I see here on the same
CPU...since it hasn't let the blue smoke come out, I guess it's
about right :)
  
Vox
 
  Vox,
 
  60C is a little too hot.  That's 140 deg F.  You should be getting
  better temps than that.  You might be shortening the life of your
  CPU.
 
   Mmmm...depends on several factors...one is the ambient temp...which
   is hot like hell here in Monterrey, specially in places without AC,
   like my house...the real strange thing is that CPU load during
   summer doesn't vary the CPU temp more than a couple of C
   degrees...yesterday, with about 6% of CPU in use (X, Enlightenment,
   2 emacs, xchat, gaim, licq, a few Eterms...normal stuff) it was at
   55C...today, with 95% of CPU in use for the last 8 or 9 hours, the
   temp is 57C...this box has behaved like that since january when I
   got it :)
 
  The stock fan that comes with the Athlon is not the best deal in the
  world.  The real deal is a Vantec Areoflow VA4-C7040.  That's a
  fantastic piece of engineering, and it doesn't cost an arm and a
  leg.
 
   I use a Volcano 6, IIRC (I didn't build this thing, a friend did...I
   don't open computers...HW sucks :) And I think it's doing a very
   good job, considering the fact that the room I'm in is at 42C at the
   moment :)
 
 
  To see what is happening, download Prime95 (mprime2212.tar.gz) from
 
  http://www.mersenne.org/freesoft.htm
 
   I'll check that out, thanks for the suggestion...as I said, HW is
   not my stuff...one of my other geek friends deals with my HW, I deal
   with his SW :)
 
   Thanks for the bunch of tips...I'll do the SW side checks and I'll
   pass the HW stuff to my friend...thanks bunches :)
 
   Vox

Vox,
  Last ditch if you get worried.  open the side and put a small desk fan
right on it.  From the hardware standpoint.  make sure cables (like
ribbon cables) are clear of the fan.  Also you might consider case fans
in addition to the volcano fan.  (I love volcano myself.)

James



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Re: [expert] CPU temperature question

2003-07-10 Thread Vox 
On September 1993 plus 3599 days James Sparenberg wrote:


 Vox,
   Last ditch if you get worried.  open the side and put a small desk fan
 right on it.  From the hardware standpoint.  make sure cables (like
 ribbon cables) are clear of the fan.  Also you might consider case fans
 in addition to the volcano fan.  (I love volcano myself.)

  I'm not really worried about the temp...having read the docs from
  AMD, I won't worry till it hits 65C, which it has never done :) And
  yes, I like the volcano...has worked well for me...and I do have a
  case fan at the front and a small fan on the mboard itself...I've
  been thinking about getting a second case fan for the back, but am
  too damn lazy to go find one :)

  Vox

-- 
Think of the Linux community as a niche economy isolated by its beliefs.  Kind
of like the Amish, except that our religion requires us to use _higher_
technology than everyone else.   -- Donald B. Marti Jr.


pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: [expert] CPU temperature question

2003-07-10 Thread Robert Crawford 
On Friday 11 July 2003 12:35 am, Vox wrote:
 On September 1993 plus 3599 days James Sparenberg wrote:
  Vox,
Last ditch if you get worried.  open the side and put a small desk fan
  right on it.  From the hardware standpoint.  make sure cables (like
  ribbon cables) are clear of the fan.  Also you might consider case fans
  in addition to the volcano fan.  (I love volcano myself.)

   I'm not really worried about the temp...having read the docs from
   AMD, I won't worry till it hits 65C, which it has never done :) And
   yes, I like the volcano...has worked well for me...and I do have a
   case fan at the front and a small fan on the mboard itself...I've
   been thinking about getting a second case fan for the back, but am
   too damn lazy to go find one :)

   Vox

It's been my experience with numerous AMD cpus that anything over 45c. is 
likely to start causing random misc. problems. I always start feeling 
apprehensive when my temps go above 40c. Why AMD states up to 90c. is beyond 
me. The one time I got above 50c. the system became unusable- random lockups, 
shut-down problems, various hanging with programs, etc. Better cooling fixed 
everything instantly, so it was obviously caused by high temps.

wrc1944


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[expert] CPU temperature question

2003-07-09 Thread Phil 
Hello All,

After playing with Ksensors tonight I'm now wondering what the threshold 
temperatures for the CPU and Mother board should be.

I have an AMD XP2000+ CPU which is currently running at 60 degrees C while the 
Mother Board temperature is 24 degrees C. I remember that these temperatures 
were quite a bit higher during Summer.

-- 
Regards,
Phil.



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