Re: [farsiweb] Re: [PersianComputing] Persian Keyboard Layout Preview
Who are you addressing here? A fontmaker that is planning to support the whole Unicode Arabic range? She/he will definitely support them. But a fontmaker who is only interested in one language? Why in hell should she/he support them? Hey, it's the Persian poets who liked to engage in tajnis. -Connie ___ FarsiWeb mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/farsiweb
Re: [farsiweb] Re: [PersianComputing] Persian Keyboard Layout Preview
What if a fontmaker doesn't care about all those linguistics-only needs, and wants to give his mates just some support for their language proper, as used in modern times, and only in official letters? Good point. Glad I'm keeping my jpeg-making software handy. ___ FarsiWeb mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/farsiweb
RE: [farsiweb] Re: [PersianComputing] Persian Keyboard Layout Preview
On Fri, 13 Jun 2003, Linguasoft wrote: But doesn't ALEF MAKSURA appear mostly at the end of words, i.e. in its final or isolated forms? It does, but that is the Arabic. A normal Persian Yeh is used in Persian contexts. For example, both words ali and kobraa should be written (and encoded in Unicode) using a Persian Yeh. What's more, in Arabic, when you add a personal suffix (etc.) to ALEF MAKSURA, it will assume medial/initial forms *with dots*... This is probably a bug in your software, or just it being old. Alef Maksura was only a right-joining character until Unicode 3.0 (like Reh, Dal, ...), and it got changed to a dual-joining character in Unicode 3.0.1. I wonder where you have drawn the border line between Unicode characters that are used only in Koranic texts, and other symbols such as cantillation marks or calligraphic elements such as U+FDF4, U+FDFA, U+FDFB, etc. (these Unicode values are given for reference only, not because I advocate making Arabic presentation forms available via direct keyboard input). We don't draw any line. We have just put some of them on the main keys and the others on AltGr based on frequence and other concerns, based on what a Persian typist usually sees in her day's pile of work. Traditionally, there have been special calligraphic fonts for all these add-on characters but they weren't easy to handle. I wonder whether it would not make sense to design a special (extended) keyboard for them, which may go hand-in-hand with the creation of suitable OT fonts. Are there any efforts made in this direction? Not any that I know of. (Although I don't even know if this is a good thing to do.) Lastly, a question related to the SHIFT+8 key: It's presently ASTERISK (U+002A, but wouldn't it be more appropriate for Farsi context to use this position for the ARABIC FIVE POINTED STAR (U+066D) symbol, and move the ASTERISK somewhere else, e.g. to ALT+8? Strangely, the ARABIC FIVE POINTED STAR symbol has *six* points in Arial Unicode MS and *eight* points in Tahoma. How comes? :-) Ok, let's start with a little bit of history: the whole reason there is a five-pointed Arabic star, is that some hardline Muslims belived that *any* six-pointed star resembles the Jewish *Star of David*, and so insisted on using a five-pointed one. This was not only them. Actually the same had happened with Jews and a much more frequent symbol, the *plus sign* itself. Some hardline Jews considered that a cross, and thus a symbol of Christianity. So, even these days, some of the Israeli school books are published with another addition symbol, one that looks like a normal plus sign with the bottom like ommitted, something like a is perpendicular to symobl: | --+-- In Iran, typographers almost always use the six-pointed star to, say, separate unrelated paragraphs (where usually three is used). Thus, fortunately because of the lack of such hardliners (or them being unaware of this concept), we have the more standard six-pointed one in the typeset books and on the layout. An exhausted roozbeh ___ FarsiWeb mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/farsiweb
RE: [farsiweb] Re: [PersianComputing] Persian Keyboard Layout Preview
ALEF MAKSURA: This is probably a bug in your software, or just it being old. Alef Maksura was only a right-joining character until Unicode 3.0 (like Reh, Dal, ...), and it got changed to a dual-joining character in Unicode 3.0.1. No bug no old software: Arial Unicode MS (latest version) *does* support dual-joining ALEF MAKSURA, and this is the only correct solution, IMO. (The latest Tahoma font, unfortunately, is still old-fashioned and forgot this feature.) ARABIC FIVE POINTED STAR (U+066D): I understand it's not worth counting the points :-) Thanks for your exhaustive explanation, Roozbeh! Best regards, Peter ___ FarsiWeb mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/farsiweb
RE: [farsiweb] Re: [PersianComputing] Persian Keyboard Layout Preview
(This is why I found the dotless initial form on your draft keyboard difficult to interpret.) Oh! Is THAT what that was. ___ FarsiWeb mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/farsiweb
RE: [farsiweb] Re: [PersianComputing] Persian Keyboard Layout Preview
An exhausted roozbeh An exhausted but euphoric Roozbeh? Admit it, you're enjoying every minute! ___ FarsiWeb mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/farsiweb
RE: [farsiweb] Re: [PersianComputing] Persian Keyboard Layout Preview
On Fri, 13 Jun 2003, C Bobroff wrote: An exhausted but euphoric Roozbeh? Not euphoric. Not at all. I just feel talkative. The really good word for what I am now is tired. I need a lot of alcohol, and then a lot of sleep. A good Persian word is mozmahel. Admit it, you're enjoying every minute! The visa won't get ready until Monday morning either. So I'm getting more frustrated, and I stick more to work. The whole reason I came to office today was to read possible emails on what happened with the visa. And now I'm watching another movie, am postponing a long list of things I have to do in order to get the money poured into the project, I'm not answering phones, or even my cellphone, ... I just feel I need to answer the questions, or you, Behnam, and Peter will go into a deep loop of discussing something based on a wrong assumption. I just feel the ultimate necessity to answer. roozbeh ___ FarsiWeb mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/farsiweb
RE: [farsiweb] Re: [PersianComputing] Persian Keyboard Layout Preview
On Fri, 13 Jun 2003, C Bobroff wrote: No, I've alerted all the embassies of the world not to issue you any more visas for conferences. It should have been you then :)) Look how much we all have profited from the fruits of your visa frustations of the past few days-- a very nice keyboard, installation instructions + documentatin The layout is the outcome of a meeting. I was just a member. If you mean the software, it took about half an hour or a little more because of the nice MS tool for its creation. Oh, while we're at it, would you tell your MS friends to all a ZWNJ on Shift+Space with their tool? I went through many tricks to get it done, but the keyboard compiler catches me at the final second always. and so many questions answered! Your sacrifice is GREATLY appreciated! That is something now :) roozbeh ___ FarsiWeb mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/farsiweb
RE: [farsiweb] Re: [PersianComputing] Persian Keyboard Layout Preview
The visa won't get ready until Monday morning either. Just in case the visa doesn't come Monday, you might consider making a transliterated keyboard layout for those occasional Persian typists used to the English keyboard. just a subtle hint and if you need more ideas of how to spend the long hours, I got 'em! -Connie ___ FarsiWeb mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/farsiweb
RE: [farsiweb] Re: [PersianComputing] Persian Keyboard Layout Preview
The visa won't get ready until Monday morning either. So I'm getting more frustrated, and I stick more to work. The whole reason I came to office today was to read possible emails on what happened with the visa. No, I've alerted all the embassies of the world not to issue you any more visas for conferences. Look how much we all have profited from the fruits of your visa frustations of the past few days--a very nice keyboard, installation instructions + documentatin and so many questions answered! Your sacrifice is GREATLY appreciated! -Connie ___ FarsiWeb mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/farsiweb
RE: [farsiweb] Re: [PersianComputing] Persian Keyboard Layout Preview
If you mean the software, it took about half an hour or a little more because of the nice MS tool for its creation. Yes, that's what I meant and it took YOU half an hour but would have taken me and the silent lurkers weeks or possibly never so thank you. And did I hear you say, nice MS tool? Hmmm Oh, while we're at it, would you tell your MS friends to all a ZWNJ on Shift+Space with their tool? I went through many tricks to get it done, but the keyboard compiler catches me at the final second always. I already told my friends at MS! But the NICE TOOL doesn't recognize ZWJ or ZWNJ to be spaces. (The space bar is only for spacing characters.) Maybe your friends at Unicode haven't properly labelled it so the NICE TOOL can tell what it is?? -Connie ___ FarsiWeb mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/farsiweb
RE: [farsiweb] Re: [PersianComputing] Persian Keyboard Layout Preview
On Fri, 13 Jun 2003, C Bobroff wrote: Yes, that's what I meant and it took YOU half an hour but would have taken me and the silent lurkers weeks or possibly never so thank you. I don't believe it. Full stop. And did I hear you say, nice MS tool? Hmmm It's a nice tool. But it's a shame that it's not shipped with MS Windows, and it's a shame that it came s late. But the NICE TOOL doesn't recognize ZWJ or ZWNJ to be spaces. (The space bar is only for spacing characters.) Maybe your friends at Unicode haven't properly labelled it so the NICE TOOL can tell what it is?? The question is: Why is the space bar only for spacing characters? Who requires that? And why? (I can name a few pieces of software for Windows that can help you assign a ZWNJ to Shift+space and don't nag. So this is not a Windows *requirement*.) My friends at Unicode are labeling it as a control character, which it really is. Your friends at Microsoft should also allow control character for space, or tell us why they can't. roozbeh ___ FarsiWeb mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/farsiweb
