Re: Leonidas - Lion for single screens
Martin Sourada escreveu: Hi all, 'thanks' to me catching flu and having to spend whole days in bed, I decided I'd use some of that spare time on adding the lion images for single screens. I've just built the updated lion-backgrounds package. If as many people as possible could test it before Monday it would be great (I'll blog about it as well to get more attention). This is needed because I'd like it to be tagged for release (so that people won't have to d/l MBs of data just because we added some images) - and that means I need to request freeze break and given the time, I'll need to be very much sure that it does not break anything anywhere. Note, it won't be probably installed by default, especially on Live Spins where each MiB of free space makes difference... Now, how can you test it. The packages in questions are: * leonidas-backgrounds, leonidas-backgrounds-common and leonidas-backgrounds-lion-dual for the default design * leonidas-backgrounds-lion and leonidas-backgrounds-lion-dual for the lion on single screens * leonidas-backgrounds-landscape for the Beta wallpapers and you can get them from koji [1]. Thanks, Martin References: [1] http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/buildinfo?buildID=101491 Thanks by your attention about this issue and your extra time spent to do it Martin! Best regards! -- Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira M.Sc. Student - COPPE/UFRJ Fedora Community Manager - Latin America Red Hat Community and Academy Relations http://www.proyectofedora.org http://twitter.com/rodrigopadula http://www.rodrigopadula.com ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Wallpaper
Hi Mairin. Máirín Duffy escreveu: Hi Rodrigo, - Original Message From: Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira rodrigopad...@projetofedora.org To: Fedora-art-list@redhat.com Sent: Wednesday, May 6, 2009 2:36:25 PM Subject: Wallpaper Hello Guys! The Fedora 11 Preview wallpaper is the Final version of our artwork ? Why the lion was ripped ? We received numerous rawhide user complaints that the lion was too distracting for a default background. We decided to make the lion wallpaper a bonus feature for the right screen in a dual screen setup as well as offer the lion wallpaper as a non-default alternative. The wallpaper without a symbol is very simple! How the group take this decisions ? I think will be better to use the vote system for next releases, to get feedback from all Ambassadors and contributors. Can we open this decision process ? -- Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira M.Sc. Student - COPPE/UFRJ Fedora Community Manager - Latin America Red Hat Community and Academy Relations http://www.proyectofedora.org http://twitter.com/rodrigopadula http://www.rodrigopadula.com ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Wallpaper
Máirín Duffy escreveu: Hi Rodrigo, - Original Message From: Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira rodrigopad...@projetofedora.org To: Fedora Art List fedora-art-list@redhat.com Sent: Wednesday, May 6, 2009 3:15:47 PM Subject: Re: Wallpaper The wallpaper without a symbol is very simple! Who says a default wallpaper needs to be complicated? The more complex a default wallpaper, the harder it is to see the items on your desktop. This is not a good thing and we receive complaints *regulary* when a wallpaper is perceived to be too complicated/busy for discerning items on the desktop. How the group take this decisions ? Not complicated, but with a logo or symbol about the name/release. I think a blue screen with some effects isn't the best wallpaper for Fedora 11. Fedora 10 had a sun Fedora 9 waves Fedora 8 transition effect during the day Fedora 7 balloons . In general, how this group handles a decision (and how I think any group would) depends at what level the decision is and the context around the decision. This particular problem needed to be addressed (in short-order to say the least) so I made a call on the list. No one opposed it and several people supported it. If you are curious read back through the list archives. I think will be better to use the vote system for next releases, to get feedback from all Ambassadors and contributors. Can we open this decision process ? I think voting on every bug and issue that comes up (especially in something as subjective as artwork where user preferences vary widely) is a really bad idea for ANY project. It's supremely inefficient - how can you accomplish anything when you are constantly needing to arrange and manage voting processes? Who gets to vote on the items that get to be on the ballot? Design itself is essentially a continual process of decision-making. If we had a vote on every single decision made for every design this team produced for Fedora, it might take us 10 years to do the artwork for a release and I don't feel I am exaggerating. This is an extremely open design team. We openly discuss our methods and our decisions, and we make our source artwork available in open formats using open licenses so anyone who wants to participate, extend, or build on our work can easily. If you been participating in the list when we received complaints on this particular issue and when we made the final call on how to handle it, you could have spoken up just as anyone else could have. Even if you were not paying attention to the list at the time, it doesn't mean the issue wasn't discussed openly. I really want to see more folks participating in the artwork process - creating mockups or alternatives or suggesting solutions to problems such as this one (where the lion was too distracting for some users). So, if you would like to have a say, please join us. Then the next time an issue like this crops up, you'll more easily be able to take the opportunity to speak up and discuss the issue. My sugestion isn't to voting on every bug and issue that comes up, but voting on artwork options for every Fedora Release to take a direction (not a final decision), to have feedback from the people that spread and use Fedora around the world. I'm talking constantly with Maria Leandro, Jayme and more recently Samuele and nobody knew about the changes and decisions taked about the wallpaper/Lion. If this process is open, clear and etc why these members, member of this list don't knew about this decision ? For me this decision impacts all users/contributors/ambassadors, but the decision isn't clear and isn't open! Samule saved us again, this time from a Windows XP Like wallpaper, but, unfortunately the beautiful wallpaper was ripped! Our artwork team is great and is doing a GREAT JOB, but, we need to improve the decision process. -- Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira M.Sc. Student - COPPE/UFRJ Fedora Community Manager - Latin America Red Hat Community and Academy Relations http://www.proyectofedora.org http://twitter.com/rodrigopadula http://www.rodrigopadula.com ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Wallpaper
Máirín Duffy escreveu: - Original Message From: Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira rodrigopad...@projetofedora.org Not complicated, but with a logo or symbol about the name/release. We haven't had a logo in the wallpaper since F8. The wallpaper uses the same base artwork/theme as the more knock-you-over-the-head artwork so it matches fine. I think a blue screen with some effects isn't the best wallpaper for Fedora 11. Fedora 10 had a sun Fedora 9 waves Fedora 8 transition effect during the day This was an extremely abstract rendering. F8 and F9 both had transition effects. Yes, I know! Just because things were done one way in the past doesn't mean that way was the best way or the way to go now. As has been discussed on this list extensively over the past couple of years, we're looking to tone down the artwork a lot more and make it a bit more elegant and not knock-you-over-the-head-with-something-thematic-in-every-single-available-space-used-for-artwork. We need to change, of corse, but we need to improve, to grow up. Release by release the artwork team has done this job better and better. IMHO the Fedora 11 artwork, codename and slogan isn't going in the same way. All decisions was very confuse and troubled. My sugestion isn't to voting on every bug and issue that comes up, but voting on artwork options for every Fedora Release to take a direction (not a final decision), to have feedback from the people that spread and use Fedora around the world. I'm sorry, I must have misunderstood. I thought you were talking about the decision to not have the lion on the left screen wallpaper by default. The decision to go with the lion wallpaper was made very much as a group discussion, discussed and agonized over thoroughly on-list and over IRC. The last time we did a vote was a disaster. We were getting multiple art team FAS group requests daily from people who wanted to vote. Too bad we don't normally get that many requests from people who actually want to help produce artwork. I'm talking constantly with Maria Leandro, Jayme and more recently Samuele and nobody knew about the changes and decisions taked about the wallpaper/Lion. Ultimately, as the team lead of the art team, I am responsible for when these decisions have to be made. I am the person who has to stay up all night and work to make deadlines, giving up my free time up to get things done when it isn't getting done. This is a role I truly do not enjoy, as it seems that the artwork is ALWAYS controversial, release after release. There is no way to satisfy everyone with the artwork. When one person is happy, there are 5 others who are upset about it. Change things to make those 5 people happy,then there are 20 more who are unhappy Your arguments confirm my arguments. If we have troubles and controversies release by release, the process is not good enough and we need to improve. I'm working in the Fedora Project since 2005 as contributor (translation, documentation, free media, events, support, infra, fedora latam, fedora education and others projects) and some decisions makes our job more hard, I know! Samuele went on vacation for a long time. Unfortunately, the deadlines for this team do not get to go on vacation. We were getting many complaints about the lion being in the wallpaper by default, and a decision had to be made. If I had held a vote, Samuele wouldn't have been there to vote. It is unfortunate that the artwork we went with was submitted so late (well past the deadline). The quality of the artwork is what drove us to make an exception to the deadline, but this obviously left us very shorthanded on time to deal with issues that cropped up such as the incessant complaints about the lion being too busy. Perhaps if the artwork had been submitted according to the schedule, we would have had more time to deliberate on how to handle the user complaints. Please read the archives. Please. I just had to take time out of my incredibly busy day to dig these links out for you. I would greatly appreciate if you would honor that by reading these threads before continuing this discussion. Sure! Thread: Artwork Feedback start here: https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-art-list/2009-April/msg00070.html Thread: Leonidas background brightness start here: https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-art-list/2009-April/msg00137.html Thread: Leonidas backgrounds start here: https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-art-list/2009-April/msg00132.html Thread: Improving Leonidas backgrounds start here: https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-art-list/2009-April/msg00141.html Message (Schedule reminder) https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-art-list/2009-April/msg00160.html Thread: Wallpaper for F11 https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-art-list/2009-April/msg00255.html Good, but, we have millions of users. Using a open process (voting system
Re: Wallpaper
Hi JBG! I'm a Gnu/Linux user since 1996 and Fedora user since Fedora 1. So, I know how can I change my wallpaper and install packages, thanks :-) After the ugly Windows XP Like wallpaper and the Blue Screen of death without a fedora identity/relation I will keep in touch in this list to give the US$0,02 of our community (Latam/Brazil). Best regards! -- Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira M.Sc. Student - COPPE/UFRJ Fedora Community Manager - Latin America Red Hat Community and Academy Relations http://www.proyectofedora.org http://twitter.com/rodrigopadula http://www.rodrigopadula.com Jóhann B. Guðmundsson escreveu: Firstly it's already to late in the release cycle to start demanding some kind of vote or voting system. Secondly Participate or monitor to this list from the beginning of the release cycle to be up2date on what's happening and why things are being done the way they are being done. If you are unable to do that start reading the mailing lists archives before posting a topic to prevent reoccurring threads. If you have something to add added to that thread. ( If the topic reoccurred reply to the thread with a link to the original thread ) Thirdly This decision has been made and it's final ( at least for this release cycle ) Fourthly The background with the lion did not get sent to /dev/null If you want the lion open up a terminal and run su -c 'rpm -Uhv http://kojipkgs.fedoraproject.org/packages/leonidas-backgrounds/10.93.0/1.fc11/noarch/leonidas-backgrounds-10.93.0-1.fc11.noarch.rpm http://kojipkgs.fedoraproject.org/packages/leonidas-backgrounds/10.93.0/1.fc11/noarch/leonidas-backgrounds-common-10.93.0-1.fc11.noarch.rpm --oldpackage echo exclude=leonidas-backgrounds leonidas-backgrounds-common /etc/yum.conf' If the background with the lion will be provided as an add on then just open up a terminal window and run yum -y install $package Then select that background from the list from available backgrounds. ( Ye might wanna add that to the release-notes for those that want the lion ) Máirín Duffy you are doing great job and are an excellent leader don't let the nature of mailing lists put you off balance just build an immune system :). And to the whole Art Team as always your arts is spectacular and is the envy of all the other distros.. JBG ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Wallpaper
Ian Weller escreveu: On Wed, May 06, 2009 at 02:26:05PM -0700, Máirín Duffy wrote: - Original Message From: Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira rodrigopad...@projetofedora.org Samule saved us again, this time from a Windows XP Like wallpaper, but, unfortunately the beautiful wallpaper was ripped! Our artwork team is great and is doing a GREAT JOB, but, we need to improve the decision process. If anyone would like to step up as art team leader, please let me know, as I no longer wish to hold the position. Rodrigo, please end this argument now. Máirín alone has answered every point you have brought up on this list with a rational argument that has been agreed upon with consensus previously on this list. Fedora is not a democracy as you would like it to be. Fedora is a meritocracy. Those who do things have more clout in how things are done. For example, Máirín has spent a multitude of very late nights working on wallpaper for deadline since I've started contributing. Thank you for ending this argument and realizing that you have a choice to add the lion back to the wallpaper yourself. You might also be interested in this essay: http://fpaste.org/paste/11201 Sometimes meritocracy sounds like autocracy in the Fedora Project. Talking about meritocracy, the King Concept wallpaper was made by Samuele THE GREAT to save us from the Greek Concept Windows Xp based and his job was ripped without consensus! Take a look: Fedora 11 Wallpaper - Life Cycle 1 - First we had a Greek Concept Wallpaper. 2 - Second we had a King Concept Wallpaper. 3 - Now we have only a Wallpaper, without Greek, without King and without a CONCEPT. That's the point! What's the concept used to take/define the consensus? -- Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira M.Sc. Student - COPPE/UFRJ Fedora Community Manager - Latin America Red Hat Community and Academy Relations http://www.proyectofedora.org http://twitter.com/rodrigopadula http://www.rodrigopadula.com ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
