Re: OT: ATX 4P power socket
Christoph Höger wrote:
I somehow broke my ATX 4P 12V Power Socket from my mb.
Here's my question: Is there any hope to get such a socket as a
replacement part somewhere and try if repluging would help?
The problem is not so much difficulty finding the part. The problem
is going to be removing the broken one without damaging the MB.
Those boards are multi layered, so desolering the pins is a bit
of a challenge. I'd try breaking up the old socket with a pair
of dykes to get the shell off first, then try to desolder the
pins one at a time. A solder sucker is necessary for this.
You may have a pin broken off inside the board. A solder sucker
can likely get it back out for you. A toothpick can also be
helpful.
Be gentle, and use a temperature controlled iron. Wattage doesn't
much matter, so long as it is high enough. You'll see never use
a high power iron on PC boards recommended. This is untrue. The
power doesn't matter, but the temperature does. Be careful not
to overheat the board, that's what counts.
Mike
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Re: Change Machine, No Sound (longish)
Kevin Kofler wrote:
Mike McCarty wrote:
I use an old but working version of Fedora.
Your ancient version (ALSA library 1.0.3a? WTF??? The oldest still supported
release is Fedora 9 which has 1.0.17 in updates!) is no longer supported,
you have to upgrade. You can't expect to get help for unsupported releases.
I expect nothing. I asked for some help, and I'm getting some.
Most likely the ancient ALSA in the obsolete release you're using simply
does not support your current hardware. That's no wonder.
The new hardware is a several years older machine than the one that
worked, and certainly older than the ALSA release.
Time to upgrade.
Non sequitur, I think.
Mike
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Re: Change Machine, No Sound (longish)
stan wrote:
On Fri, 19 Jun 2009 16:22:59 -0500
Mike McCarty mike.mcca...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
$ cat /etc/modules.conf
# I2C module options
alias char-major-89 i2c-dev
#options parport_pc io=0x378 irq=7 dma=3
options parport_pc io=0x378 irq=7
When I looked at my file, I realized I've been giving you bad
information. The file in /etc is modprobe.conf, not modules.conf. Here
is how you set it
Hmm, mine looks a little odd...
$ cat /etc/modprobe.conf
alias eth0 via-rhine
alias snd-card-0 snd-via82xx
install snd-intel8x0 /sbin/modprobe --ignore-install snd-intel8x0
/usr/sbin/alsactl restore /dev/null 21 || :
remove snd-intel8x0 { /usr/sbin/alsactl store /dev/null 21 || : ; };
/sbin/modprobe -r --ignore-remove snd-intel8x0
alias usb-controller ehci-hcd
alias usb-controller1 uhci-hcd
install snd-via82xx /sbin/modprobe --ignore-install snd-via82xx
/usr/sbin/alsactl restore /dev/null 21 || :
remove snd-via82xx { /usr/sbin/alsactl store /dev/null 21 || : ; };
/sbin/modprobe -r --ignore-remove snd-via82xx
options snd cards_limit=8
alias snd-card-0 snd-ice1724 replace snd-ice1724 with your card
options snd-ice1724 index=0 should be snd-via32xx for you
alias snd-card-1 snd-ck8s you can delete these two
options snd-ck8s index=1 lines.
alias snd-card-7 snd-usb-audio this doesn't hurt anything
options snd-usb-audio index=7 so you can leave it
This info is also in the alsa-info.sh output.
I don't see anything in there about sound cards at all.
Maybe I need to add another alias or something in there. I could try
pulling that file from a backup, and see what it used to look like.
The output of aplay was, to say the least, verbose, being 249 lines.
What part of it is significant?
The part that says card 0. It will tell you which device is considered
card 0 and thus default. What you want to see is that the via is card
0, and not the modem device. This info is also in the alsa-info.sh
output.
249 lines. Wow! With two cards my system is just over one screen.
Try justaplay -l
$ aplay -l
List of PLAYBACK Hardware Devices
card 0: V8235 [VIA 8235], device 0: VIA 8235 [VIA 8235]
Subdevices: 4/4
Subdevice #0: subdevice #0
Subdevice #1: subdevice #1
Subdevice #2: subdevice #2
Subdevice #3: subdevice #3
card 0: V8235 [VIA 8235], device 1: VIA 8235 [VIA 8235]
Subdevices: 1/1
Subdevice #0: subdevice #0
It looks like it found the card.
So my default device is the ICE1724. You want to see VIA32xx as card 0.
I suppose that's a tpyo for VIA82xx.
Mike
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Re: Change Machine, No Sound (longish)
stan wrote:
Thanks for replying again!
On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 13:27:21 -0500
Mike McCarty mike.mcca...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
stan wrote:
On Fri, 19 Jun 2009 16:22:59 -0500
When I looked at my file, I realized I've been giving you bad
information. The file in /etc is modprobe.conf, not modules.conf.
Here is how you set it
Hmm, mine looks a little odd...
$ cat /etc/modprobe.conf
[...]
I'll say. I think you could reduce it to:
alias snd-card-0 snd-via82xx
card options snd-via82xx index=0
alias eth0 via-rhine
alias usb-controller ehci-hcd
alias usb-controller1 uhci-hcd
I'll copy it off and give that a try. I'm not familiar with the
format of that file. I think I'll give $ man or $ info a try.
But I'm not sure of the purpose of all that intel8x0 and via82xx sound
module messing about. Your card still seems to be recognized properly
below though.
I'm not either. It could be a leftover from the previous hardware.
[...]
It looks like it found the card.
Yes it does.
[...]
By every indication, you should have sound. If you have pulseaudio
installed and enabled, it could be causing the issue. It might be as
simple as turning up the volume in pulseaudio. I am not knowledgeable
about pulse, so for more information you can go to
http://www.pulseaudio.org/
$ rpm -qi --provides pulseaudio
package pulseaudio is not installed
As I said, the software configuration I had was working, and I haven't
messed with it except to allow kudzu to remove the config for the
old stuff, and install the new.
Mike
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Re: IPv6 docs, howtos, descriptions
Tony Asnicar wrote:
I know...google...BUT:
Does someone has good howtos, docs, descriptions, opinions in forums, or
similar things about IPv6 and related things?
I just think it would be a very good idea to collect some links about it...
Regards, and thank you in anticipation
Please stop blasting all the lists like that. I don't need multiple
copies of your messages.
Mike
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Re: Change Machine, No Sound (longish)
Partha Chowdhury wrote:
Thanks for the reply!
[...]
now the shot in the dark- if the OP runs the fedora 11 and removes
pulseaudio, the sound may work as it will contain the latest stable
alsa.
I don't use FC11, and I don't have pulseaudio. The software config
worked fine with the previous hardware. I understand the desire some
have to get everyone on board with the latest release, but I'm not
interested in upgrading to a later version of FC.
$ apropos pulseaudio
pulseaudio: nothing appropriate
Mike
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Re: Change Machine, No Sound (longish)
stan wrote:
On Fri, 19 Jun 2009 00:45:04 -0500
Mike McCarty mike.mcca...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
Anyone have any suggestions? I sure need some.
Mike
These are instructions about your chip from the latest alsa driver
snapshot. That snapshot is available here:
ftp://ftp.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/people/tiwai/snapshot/alsa-driver-snapshot.tar.gz
Thanks for the reply. I've downloaded, untarred, and am reading.
So far, I don't see anything, but there's a lot there.
Also, I note that /dev/dsp exists, but if I copy some file to it, no
sound comes out. I wonder if that's related.
Module snd-via82xx
--
Module for AC'97 motherboards based on VIA 82C686A/686B, 8233,
8233A, 8233C, 8235, 8237 (south) bridge.
mpu_port- 0x300,0x310,0x320,0x330, otherwise obtain BIOS
setup [VIA686A/686B only]
How does one pass these things in? Would I have to edit /etc/module.conf
or some /etc/rc.d or sth like that? I'll reboot and see what the BIOS
says the port is. Hmm. It says only for VIA686A. I guess not applicable.
[...]
You could also run the script below and post the link or run with option
(I think it is) --with-noupload and post the output so people can see
what your system configuration is.
http://www.alsa-project.org/alsa-info.sh
I ran that script, and captured the output, but it's nearly 800 lines
of stuff, and not suitable just to post. However, if anyone knows
how to interpret it, and can help, then I can subset out what is
useful. At least these parts seemed useful:
!!ALSA Version
!!
Driver version: 1.0.6
Library version:1.0.3a
Utilities version: 1.0.3
!!Loaded ALSA modules
!!---
snd_via82xx
!!Sound Servers on this system
!!
ESound Daemon:
Installed - Yes (/usr/bin/esd)
Running - Yes
aRts:
Installed - Yes (/usr/bin/artsd)
Running - No
!!PCI Soundcards installed in the system
!!--
00:11.5 Multimedia audio controller: VIA Technologies, Inc.
VT8233/A/8235/8237 AC97 Audio Controller (rev 50)
!!Loaded sound module options
!!--
!!Module: snd_via82xx
ac97_clock : 48000,48000,48000,48000,48000,48000,48000,48000
ac97_quirk : -1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1
dxs_support : 3,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
enable : Y,Y,Y,Y,Y,Y,Y,Y
id : NULL,NULL,NULL,NULL,NULL,NULL,NULL,NULL
index : -1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1
joystick : N,N,N,N,N,N,N,N
mpu_port : 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
!!AC97 Codec information
!!---
[lots of info snipped]
!!ALSA Device nodes
!!-
crw--- 1 jmccarty root 116, 0 Feb 23 2004 /dev/snd/controlC0
crw--- 1 jmccarty root 116, 32 Feb 23 2004 /dev/snd/controlC1
crw--- 1 jmccarty root 116, 64 Feb 23 2004 /dev/snd/controlC2
crw--- 1 jmccarty root 116, 96 Feb 23 2004 /dev/snd/controlC3
crw--- 1 jmccarty root 116, 4 Feb 23 2004 /dev/snd/hwC0D0
crw--- 1 jmccarty root 116, 5 Feb 23 2004 /dev/snd/hwC0D1
crw--- 1 jmccarty root 116, 6 Feb 23 2004 /dev/snd/hwC0D2
[...]
!!Aplay/Arecord output
!!
APLAY
List of PLAYBACK Hardware Devices
card 0: V8235 [VIA 8235], device 0: VIA 8235 [VIA 8235]
Subdevices: 4/4
Subdevice #0: subdevice #0
Subdevice #1: subdevice #1
Subdevice #2: subdevice #2
Subdevice #3: subdevice #3
card 0: V8235 [VIA 8235], device 1: VIA 8235 [VIA 8235]
Subdevices: 1/1
Subdevice #0: subdevice #0
[arecord stuff snipped, but it found some]
!!---Mixer controls for card 0 [V8235]
Card hw:0 'V8235'/'VIA 8235 with ALC101 at 0xdc00, irq 11'
Mixer name: 'Realtek ALC101'
Components: 'AC97a'
Controls : 30
Simple ctrls : 23
[more stuff listed but cut, anyway, it seems to have found it]
I don't have that card so it is hard for me to offer any concrete
suggestions.
Thanks so much for what you were able to offer!
Mike
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Re: Change Machine, No Sound (longish)
stan wrote:
On Fri, 19 Jun 2009 02:33:21 -0500
Mike McCarty mike.mcca...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
Thanks for the reply. I've downloaded, untarred, and am reading.
So far, I don't see anything, but there's a lot there.
Thanks for the reply.
You want to look in the directory alsa-kernel/Documentation. That is
where all the driver documentation is. Well, the real documentation is
in the source. ;-)
Yeah, I found both of those. Reading other people's code isn't
the most pleasant way to find out how stuff works.
Also, I note that /dev/dsp exists, but if I copy some file to it, no
sound comes out. I wonder if that's related.
In the latest kernels, OSS is considered obsolete and no longer
automatically installed. You have to put the required modules into the
/etc/modules.conf file. This will probably break a lot of old
applications.
I'm running an old kernel, but not that old. Not like 2.2 or 2.4.
I'm running a 2.6 kernel.
You are running old kernels for which this shouldn't apply, but it
might be relevant.
It is possible that your application is trying to use true oss and is
failing. All current OSS is just alsa emulation, and so the modules to
do that have to be installed.
Why would that configuration change just because the discs
were moved to different hardware? The software configuration
worked before. It's just on different hardware.
[how to pass in parameters to modules? modules.conf or modules.d?]
Yes, in Fedora it would be /etc/modules.conf; in debian derivatives it
will be /etc/modules.d/alsa
I've run Fedora on here for quite a while, but also had to
administer a Debian machine, so sometimes things get a little
muddled after not having to do a certain thing for a few years.
[...]
You could also run the script below and post the link or run with
option (I think it is) --with-noupload and post the output so
people can see what your system configuration is.
http://www.alsa-project.org/alsa-info.sh
I ran that script, and captured the output, but it's nearly 800 lines
of stuff, and not suitable just to post. However, if anyone knows
how to interpret it, and can help, then I can subset out what is
useful. At least these parts seemed useful:
[snippy]
[more stuff listed but cut, anyway, it seems to have found it]
It shows all the sound modules that are loaded. You can deduce from
that whether the OSS stuff is there or not.
ALSA is getting invoked, and then complaining it has a broken
pipe. I wonder why? I also tried running mpg123 with the specific
switch to force it to use ALSA interface, with no change.
The parts that are present seem to indicate that everything is
identified and functioning correctly. No joy.
You see, that's the conclusion I was drawing: Everything I knew
to check looked like it had been loaded and initialized, but
still no sound.
I did also check the taskbar speaker volume, and it's not a
problem with muting the sytem.
I'm surprised that there is something that kudzu didn't figure out.
Mike
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Re: Change Machine, No Sound (longish)
stan wrote:
Thanks for the reply again. I'm leaving for the weekend in just a bit,
so this will be my last message this week. However, I'll be back on
Monday, and I trow the sound card won't start working on its own. :-)
On Fri, 19 Jun 2009 10:07:21 -0500
I noticed that the card has a built-in modem. It is possible that the
setup placed it as default instead of the sound device. You could
check for that in /etc/modules.conf or with aplay -lLv (I put all
three instead of remembering exact syntax) :-)
$ cat /etc/modules.conf
# I2C module options
alias char-major-89 i2c-dev
#options parport_pc io=0x378 irq=7 dma=3
options parport_pc io=0x378 irq=7
I don't see anything in there about sound cards at all.
Maybe I need to add another alias or something in there. I could try
pulling that file from a backup, and see what it used to look like.
The output of aplay was, to say the least, verbose, being 249 lines.
What part of it is significant?
And you might want to move /etc/asound.conf and ~/.asoundrc to backups
and try a reboot to see if they were influencing the sound detection in
any way.
$ ls /etc/asound.conf ~/.asoundrc
ls: /etc/asound.conf: No such file or directory
ls: /home/jmccarty/.asoundrc: No such file or directory
I went to my backup directory, where I keep tables of contents of my
backups, and looked.
[r...@presario-1 backups]# grep asound[.]conf *.toc
[r...@presario-1 backups]# grep asoundrc *.toc
yakup0.20080926.toc:usr/share/doc/alsa-lib-1.0.3a/asoundrc.txt
So, it's not just a matter of those files going away since the
machine change. They didn't exist before.
Maybe try after typing esdctl off . I noticed you had esd on, it
might have some interaction with alsa causing problems.
I tried that, but without a reboot. Still no joy. I wish ALSA would
tell me what pipe is broken.
All these are grasping at straws. I'm as stumped as you are at this
point.
Well, I'm pretty stumped. I've checked the volume control on the
(amplified) speakers, and it's turned up, and they are turned on,
and they have power. I've tapped the plug from the speakers which
goes into the output jack on the computer case, and I get good
loud clicks from the speakers. I've checked that the plug is inserted
into the correct jack, and is properly seated.
I've checked the BIOS to make sure tsound card is set as ENABLED
(it's actually part of the motherboard). I suspect if it weren't
ENABLED it wouldn't even be found, but it was worth checking.
Also, when the machine boots, the BIOS shoots one BEEP! out the
speakers, so I know it's _capable_ of making noise.
Mike
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Change Machine, No Sound (longish)
First, thanks for taking the time to read this. Sorry it's longish, but I wanted to report what I've tried and what's in there. I use an old but working version of Fedora. My motherboard recently fried its keyboard and video ports for unknown reasons. I installed the discs into another machine, booted up, and let kudzu do its thing. Only thing is, no sound. # lspci [...] 00:11.5 Multimedia audio controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT8233/A/8235/8237 AC97 Audio Controller (rev 50) [...] That looks like a fairly common, if old, sound chip, and AC97 is a very common standard interface. # modprobe -l | grep ac97 /lib/modules/[vers]/kernel/sound/pci/ac97/snd-ac97-codec.ko /lib/modules/[vers]/kernel/sound/pci/ac97/snd-ak4531-codec.ko Ok, that first one looks like a possible winner. # modprobe -c | grep ac97 alias symbol:snd_ac97_pcm_open snd_ac97_codec alias symbol:snd_ac97_pcm_assign snd_ac97_codec alias symbol:snd_ac97_update snd_ac97_codec [...] Ok, looks like it knows how to install it. # modprobe -v --first-time snd_ac97_codec FATAL: Module snd_ac97_codec already in kernel. OOPS! Already there! Ok, so why no sound? Let's see what dmesg has to say... the only thing which looks related is # dmesg [...] via82xx: Assuming DXS channels with 48k fixed sample rate. Please try dxs_support=1 or dxs_support=4 option and report if it works on your machine. [...] Searching the web doesn't turn up anything about DXS channels, which I don't know what they are. The only reason this looks like it might be related is the 48k fixed sample rate, which might be 48 kbps audio sampling rate or something like that. Really, I see nothing there which looks like it found any audio stuff at all. Ok, what's actually there... # lsmod Module Size Used by sd_mod 16705 0 snd_mixer_oss 17089 2 snd_via82xx27745 3 snd_ac97_codec 67745 1 snd_via82xx snd_pcm93769 2 snd_via82xx,snd_ac97_codec snd_timer 29381 1 snd_pcm snd_page_alloc 9669 2 snd_via82xx,snd_pcm gameport5185 1 snd_via82xx snd_mpu401_uart 9153 1 snd_via82xx snd_rawmidi26081 1 snd_mpu401_uart snd_seq_device 8653 1 snd_rawmidi snd53797 10 snd_mixer_oss,snd_via82xx,snd_ac97_codec,snd_pcm,snd_timer,snd_mpu401_uart,snd_rawmidi,snd_seq_device soundcore 10273 3 snd parport_pc 26629 1 lp 12077 0 parport37641 2 parport_pc,lp autofs424005 0 sunrpc158117 1 via_rhine 23625 0 mii 4801 1 via_rhine ipt_REJECT 6593 1 ipt_state 2113 8 ip_conntrack 40949 1 ipt_state iptable_filter 3777 1 ip_tables 16577 3 ipt_REJECT,ipt_state,iptable_filter floppy 58097 0 sg 34145 0 scsi_mod 123073 2 sd_mod,sg microcode 6625 0 dm_mod 56149 0 uhci_hcd 31705 0 ehci_hcd 35273 0 md5 4161 1 ipv6 237441 10 ext3 121161 3 jbd71001 1 ext3 Ok, it looks like the via82xx driver is in there, which is what lspci reports. I didn't trim that report, in case I might cut something which might be related due to ignorance or inadvertence. However, trying to play something which used to work, like $ mpg123 -v misty092700.mp3 High Performance MPEG 1.0/2.0/2.5 Audio Player for Layers 1, 2 and 3 version 1.6.4; written and copyright by Michael Hipp and others free software (LGPL/GPL) without any warranty but with best wishes Decoder: SSE Playing MPEG stream 1 of 1: misty092700.mp3 ... Title: misty092700 MPEG 2.0, Layer: III, Freq: 16000, mode: Single-Channel, modext: 0, BPF : 108 Channels: 1, copyright: No, original: No, CRC: No, emphasis: 0. Bitrate: 24 kbit/s Extension value: 0 ALSA lib pcm_hw.c:494:(snd_pcm_hw_start) SNDRV_PCM_IOCTL_START failed: Broken pipe Frame# 0 [271564], Time: 00:00.00 [162:56.30], RVA: off, Vol: 100(100)ALSA lib pcm_hw.c:494:(snd_pcm_hw_start) SNDRV_PCM_IOCTL_START failed: Broken pipe ALSA lib pcm_hw.c:494:(snd_pcm_hw_start) SNDRV_PCM_IOCTL_START failed: Broken pipe ALSA lib pcm_hw.c:494:(snd_pcm_hw_start) SNDRV_PCM_IOCTL_START failed: Broken pipe Frame#63 [271501], Time: 00:02.26 [162:54.03], RVA: off, Vol: 100(100) [HIT ^C] [0:02] Decoding of misty092700.mp3 finished. ALSA is complaining about a broken pipe. The player thinks it's sending sound out, because the frame numbers are going up and up, but no sound, and ALSA complains. Searching for that error message SNDRV_PCM_IOCTL_START failed turned up some suggestions to get a different version of ALSA, suggesting an OLDER version. Hmm. Someone else suggested looking at $ ls -l .ICEauthority -rw--- 1 jmccarty jmccarty
Re: Windows vs Linux
gmspro wrote:
Hi,
[...]
But there is one thing about linux is that NO VIRUS IN LINUX.
What would you say?
I say that you haven't heard of the Internet Worm. Linux,
basically being a clone of UNIX, might have succombed to
that one, I suspect. Almost certainly BSD would have. Since
Linux didn't exist at the time one can't really say. However,
it would likely have been one of the targetted systems if
the Worm were done today, and so if an exploit had been available,
it likely would have hit Linux machines.
Mike
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Re: network question - is this unusual?
Gerhard Magnus wrote:
I recently had to deal with my ISP about a connectivity problem that
turned out to be on their end. (The tech referred to linux as lie-nux
If you insist on correct pronunciation then you should pronounce
it lee-nooks to rhyme with free kooks. If you say linnux then you
shouldn't complain about lie-nux, as neither of them is the way
Linus (pr. lee-noos) says it, and it's derived from his name.
[modem-router-box,box,box,box]
I thought I'd check this out before going further
I've got the same setup with fixed IP on the back side of the
router, and only one machine. That's a very normal setup. Many
people who run only some version of Windows are however not
very security savvy or conscious, and don't run with a router,
and always use DHCP even if with a router.
Mike
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Re: network question - is this unusual?
Anne Wilson wrote:
Isn't it unusual to connect the modem to the DSL socket on the router? The
No, it is not. One should always use the WAN connection, and not the LAN
connection, to take advantage of the firewall in the router.
only time I've set up one where I had to use the supplied modem I used the
router as a switch, connecting the modem to one of the LAN sockets.
I purchased a router even though I have only one machine connected to
the 'net, because I wanted the firewall in the router, and I have
my router connected the selfsame way, with the WAN side connected to
the ADSL modem.
mike
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Re: OT: Can Reformatting A Hard Drive To ext3 Destroy All the Data On It?
Robert L Cochran wrote:
I have a hard drive that I need to destroy the data on. What is the most
dependable way to do this? Can reformatting the drive as ext3 or ext4 or
some other filesystem effectively destroy the existing data?
Is there free software that can write zeroes or some form of nonsense to
every storage location?
Overwriting the disc, even several times, is not enough to guarantee
that the data _cannot_ be recovered. If you truly need to make the
data unrecoverable, then a hammer is all that's needed. To be truly
sure, open the case (also requires a screwdriver or nutdriver),
and shatter each disc separately. They are usually ceramic these
days, I think. Anyway, physical destruction is the only real guarantee.
Mike
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Re: Input/output errors when reading data DVD
Paul Smith wrote:
On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 10:20 PM, Paul Smith phh...@gmail.com wrote:
I have recorded some data DVD some time ago. Now, I am trying to copy
them to my hard disk, but I am always getting an
'input/output error'.
Any ideas?
Maybe the following helps to identify the problem:
Jun 2 00:08:43 localhost kernel: sr 1:0:1:0: [sr0] Result:
hostbyte=DID_OK driverbyte=DRIVER_SENSE,SUGGEST_OK
Jun 2 00:08:43 localhost kernel: sr 1:0:1:0: [sr0] Sense Key : Medium
Error [current]
Jun 2 00:08:43 localhost kernel: Info fld=0x1a4600
Jun 2 00:08:43 localhost kernel: sr 1:0:1:0: [sr0] Add. Sense:
Unrecovered read error
You have a faulty disc or a faulty drive.
Mike
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Re: SMART - Please shut up!!
Andrew Jamison wrote:
lol the drive is reporting as failing because of 2 bad sectors when I
can afford to it shall be replaced but can not afford a new drive at
present maybe next month
I'm not so sure. I'm not a SMART expert, but I suspect that the
drive is reporting that it has two sectors and is out of remapping.
If so, then the drive is about to go completely South and pretty
soon.
Mike
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Re: Input/output errors when reading data DVD
Paul Smith wrote:
Thanks, Aldo and Mike. I have used the same DVD disk in a different
computer running Fedora, and no problem. Perhaps, my driver is faulty.
Could just need cleaning, but usually this results inability
to read any disc, not just particular ones. Also, the disc
might be marginal, and more easily read on one drive than another.
Mike
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Re: Input/output errors when reading data DVD
Paul Smith wrote:
Thanks, Aldo and Mike. I have used the same DVD disk in a different
computer running Fedora, and no problem. Perhaps, my driver is faulty.
Maybe this is too too obvious to suggest, but I recommend making
a separate copy of that data as soon as may be.
Mike
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Re: Can't boot!
William M. Quarles wrote:
OK, this PC is playing mean tricks on me. The past 10 times I've tried
to boot it, the boot has failed, and also, the keyboard stops responding
(so CtrlAltanything doesn't work). This thing is behaving very
inconsistently, because it just did a successful boot and I was able to
log in.
Sounds like a hardware problem, or incipient hardware problem.
I suggest shutting down, powering off, and unplugging from the wall.
(Do not omit to unplug.)
Then remove and reinsert all add on cards, especially memory boards.
and all cables, like to hard drives, floppy drives, and CD-ROM
drives (or DVD type drives).
If that doesn't help, then remove all but one memory stick,
your video card, hard drive, and keyboard. Then start adding things
back in one by one. Be sure to power off, and unplug. Motherboards
today keep power on them even when they are turned off unless
you completely unplug from the wall outlet.
If that doesn't help, then I suggest that you may have disc problems,
and may want to try to boot either from floppy, from a CD-ROM (rescue
disc) or from a thumb drive, in that order of preference.
If you can boot from a floppy, and from USB, but not from CD-ROM
or hard disc, you may have an incipient or actual controller failure.
Today, that is probably not a separately replaceable item, being
part of the chipset on the motherboard.
Mike
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Re: rkhunter found this...
g wrote:
Bill Davidsen wrote:
Script typo. Try this:
find /etc -type file | xargs grep -l '/dev/nul[^l]'
should that be -type f ?
A more interesting characteristic is that it requires that there
be a character following /dev/nul. IME redirection
is often the last thing on the line
Mike
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Re: fedora LTS , why not?
Itamar Reis Peixoto wrote:
why not contribute with fedora and rpmfusion ?
the only reason to fedora doesn't have LTS is the man power.
There used to be a Fedora Legacy which had similar goals, and
which failed partially because of lack of people willing to
donate time, and partially because the churn of Fedora was
reduced.
Respins already exist, CentOS and Scientific Linux spring
to mind.
Mike
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Efficient Create Swap File?
I've seen various recommendations for adding swap files after
system creation, and it occurs to me that the standard technique
may not be the most efficient. I realize that one rarely creates
swap files, but nonetheless on occasion one needs to precreate
some file or other, then do something to it, like mkfs etc.
Anyway, mostly trying to improve my general knowledge of
how best to use the abilities of the system, and my understanding
of the relative merits of doing things one way vs. another,
not trying to speed up rarely performed procedures.
The standard technique is to do something like
$ dd if=/dev/zero of=/path/to/new/file bs=1024 count=524288
$ mkswap /path/to/new/file
to create a 512MB file. The second command may be different,
depending upon the circumstances, but the technique remains
the same. In effect, the new file gets written twice.
It occurs to me that one could, instead, do
$ dd if=/dev/zero of=/path/to/new/file bs=1M seek=511 count=1
$ mkswap /path/to/new/file
and have the same results, requiring only writing the file
once.
$ time dd if=/dev/zero of=file1 bs=1024 count=524288
524288+0 records in
524288+0 records out
real0m17.898s
user0m0.528s
sys 0m4.895s
$ time /sbin/mkswap file1
Setting up swapspace version 1, size = 536866 kB
real0m0.432s
user0m0.000s
sys 0m0.024s
$ time dd if=/dev/zero of=file2 bs=1M seek=511 count=1
1+0 records in
1+0 records out
real0m0.077s
user0m0.000s
sys 0m0.007s
$ time /sbin/mkswap file2
Setting up swapspace version 1, size = 536866 kB
real0m0.024s
user0m0.000s
sys 0m0.004s
$ diff -s file1 file2
Files file1 and file2 are identical
My guess is that when the swap file with a hole first gets used, there
will be a long(ish?) pause while some part or parts of the sparse file
get filled in. This is not so good for a swap file, but when one
is actually going to rewrite most of the file anyway, and is only
using the file itself as more or less an indicator of the size, then
it might make sense.
Comments?
Mike
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Re: DISCOVERY Re: Why is Firefox such a beast??
Beartooth wrote:
[...]
I had noticed a new problem with the pix, but hadn't thought to
check for it with FEBE : a lot of files a/o folders would show up in
nautilus with a padlock emblem. Lo and behold, the extension folders, and
some others, were littered all over with those blasted padlocks.
I had also discovered that I could clear away the padlocks by
right-clicking a parent folder, choosing Properties, going to the
Permissions tab, and making changes.
(Why should there *be* permissions trouble with a file or folder,
belonging to user btth on one machine, burned to CD by that user,
inserted into another machine, then dragged and dropped by the same user
into some folder belonging to that user?? Is this yet another betise of
SELinux?? It didn't use to happen.)
If you just burned the files to CD, then copied them, you
wound up with READ ONLY copies. That is likely the cause of
the problems you encountered.
Mike
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Re: FireFox 3 EULA
Tim wrote:
On Thu, 2008-09-18 at 17:29 -0430, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
What is intolerable, as Arthur says, is that it should be turned on by
default, but even that isn't a licensing issue but a privacy one.
Ever more, there's just cause for having a setup wizard for the first
run of the browser. Dis/enabling features like this, setting your
language preferences (what can you read, what do you prefer, necessary
for painless use of websites that do content negotiation), and various
other features.
That's one way of doing it, and better than the current situation.
However, that's not necessary. All that's necessary is to disconnect
one's computer from his internet connection before running the product
the first time. Unless it refuses to install with no connection (which
I suppose it might) then one could install, set up the preferences,
and then re establish his ISP connectivity.
[...]
Mike
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Re: FireFox 3 EULA
Steve Hill wrote:
On Wed, 17 Sep 2008, Joel Rees wrote:
That would be, I'm assuming, that you have bought the product and have
some sort of license thereby to use it?
If you have acquired a product (e.g. bought it from a shop, downloaded
it, etc) then you do not need a licence to use it. I don't have to
agree to a licence in order to eat the loaf of bread I bought, nor do I
have to agree to a licence to use the software I bought.
Acquiring and acquiring via approved means are not the same.
Software can be GPL, but also have a use license. The GPL forces
the distributor to supply source to whoever is allowed to possess
a copy. It does not force the distributor to allow people to
acquire copies free of charge.
Mike
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Re: FireFox 3 EULA
Steve Hill wrote:
On Mon, 15 Sep 2008, Joel Rees wrote:
Did you read it?
Yep.
Some apps show you a EULA for the GPL when they install. And if you
can7t agree to the GPL, you can click disagree and refrain from
installing.
The GPL is not an EULA - the end user is not required to agree to it in
order to use the software. In fact, requiring the user to agree to any
licence (GPL or otherwise) before they can use a piece GPLed software is
itself a breach of the GPL.
IANAL, however, this doesn't sound right. I can GPL my stuff,
and still have a EULA. I just have to be willing to supply source.
Most software comes with a disclaimer insisting that the author
is not responsible for damages and that the user indemnifies the
author.
[...]
The FSF define the four freedoms. The first of those is The freedom to
run the program, for any purpose which clearly an EULA would prevent
since it places restrictions on exactly what you can do with the software.
No. For example, even with GPL, it's normal for people to insist that
their software is not being released for purposes of helping commit
crimes. For example, some software which rips CDs include EULAs that
prohibit the use for duplicating CDs except for personal fair use
type application.
[...]
Could you explain what purpose you believe an EULA serves?
They serve multiple purposes, among them protection of the
author from being implicated in crimes, or exposing himself
to lawsuits.
Could you also explain how you believe an EULA can be enforcable, given
that you can never prove someone agreed (maybe they hacked it out of the
software so they didn't have to click the I agree button, or maybe
someone else or their cat agreed to it). This isn't some signed bit of
paper where you can prove that a specific person signed it - it is a
button on a bit of software which you are assuming a specific person
clicked without having any evidence to support it.
This is a grey area which has, AFAIK, never been fully explored.
[...]
Mike
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Re: FireFox 3 EULA
Rui Miguel Silva Seabra wrote:
On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 11:44:55AM -0500, Mike McCarty wrote:
For instance, a license that says:
you may not use this software for larceny
*IS*NOT* Free Software.
Then ISTM that whoever releases software which patently
could be used for criminal purposes should not use GPL.
The conclusion of that slippery slope is that then you should not release
any software at all under any kind of license, because if you're going
for criminal purposes, what's the point of respecting copyright? :)
But stating in the README file The authors do not condone usage of this
software for larceny is totally different.
I don't know about totally, but certainly that's different.
It's totally because it's not the license.
Does every thread on Fedora _have_ to become an argument? I agreed
with you.
Mike
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Fedora List Bounces?
Lately I've been getting messages sent by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I'm subscribed to fedora-list@redhat.com, and it seems that
some send to something, and [EMAIL PROTECTED]
is forwarding it to the list. What gives?
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Re: Fedora on old hardware?
Kevin J. Cummings wrote:
Konstantin Svist wrote:
I have an old laptop (AMD K6 400MHz) that refuses to install Fedora 8.
I had no trouble installing Fedora 7 on a K6-2 500 that I have here.
I've tried Live KDE CD - that failed to boot because it's for i686 only.
At least it says the CPU is incompatible...
Yes, the K6 is a 586 compatible CPU, not a 686
I've also tried the i386 DVD - it fails around the beginning of the
install process with a generic message that something went wrong - and
doesn't install.
I didn't have this problem with F7. It installed for me.
Is this something that happens a lot?
I don't know, that system isn't running right now, I'd have to put it
back together and try with something later
Knoppix 5.11 live CD booted up just fine (although really slow :)
Going to try latest Ubuntu now...
Just to let you know, your system will make a piss poor graphical system
(too slow) with the current environments. You'd really have to dig
around to find a light-weight one that works. Its probably OK for
command line stuff though.
DSL should run fine, and I suspect that Puppy would work well
if he's got enough RAM.
Mike
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Re: Secrecy and user trust
Bill Davidsen wrote:
Mike McCarty wrote:
jdow wrote:
If this can be done once in an initial install situation it can be done
again in an update situation using the same mechanism.
One way is to download the stuff from Red Hat's site itself,
and trust that no one has managed to intercept your communications.
Actually you don't need the stuff other than the new key, do you? And
I used a generic noun because I don't know what the stuff is going
to be. It might be a RPM with the new key in it, or just some text,
or I don't know what. Your comment is correct, but perhaps slightly
misdirected because I was vague.
Mike
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Re: Dell OptiPlex 745 reboot problem
Tony Molloy wrote:
Hi,
I've just installed Fedora-9 on a lab of Dell OptiPlex 745 (SFF) machines. (
only in 1 lab TG )
After running firstboot when I went to reboot the machines they just hang and
I had to do a hard reboot. I thought this was a minor glitch and ignored it.
Now however when the machines boot into Fedora-9 the reboot and suspend
buttons do not work. The windowing system just shuts down and I get a text
prompt and the machines just hang there.
Hang? That's a vague term. If you type on the keyboard, do characters
get echoed? If you have a text prompt, then can you not do a
# shutdown -r now
Or even just
# mount
get a list of mounted file systems, and umount them all, except
for /, which you'll have to
# mount -o remount,ro /
to get them all static, then hit the power button.
Even if you are dead in the water, you should still be able
to hit the power button without corrupting the alternate
OS.
As thes are dual boot machines this will cause a lot of problems starting
monday when the students return ;-(
I don't understand why their being dual boot will cause a lot
of problems. You just installed FC9, so that wasn't there before,
and the problem shows up with FC9 booted. Presumably the alternate
boot is some version of Windows. Does the problem also manifest
itself when Windows (or whatever) is running?
Is ther some magic incantation to grub to sort this problem or any body got
any ideas.
Ok, live and learn. The first idea is, before you make changes
to machines with an important setup, make a backup. In this case,
if you had a disc image, you could probably recover very easily.
Next time, you'll know that.
I'm still a little uncertain why you have a real problem. You
have a machine which misbehaves when FC9 is running. Is it the
fact that you can't shut down that is problematic?
Mike
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Re: Secrecy and user trust
jdow wrote:
Suppose Fedora generates a new key. They can get it out there by putting
it on their website, in an update RPM, and in plain textual format in
the primary download sites. Then I as a user either trust that or find
I have to take a trip to somebody's office I know is authoritative for
Fedora and get the key on some portable media.
Now, I can also check the key if it is uploaded to all the mirrors the
same way. If I download from a large collection of sites and they all
are bit copies of each other then either the web of deceit is so large
we're all lost anyway or I have a good key.
Judy, you make too much sense. This thread has long outlived any
useful function, I think. What you just suggested is the automatic,
normal, natural thing anyone would have, and probably nearly everyone
here already has, think of. I'd also publish MD5 and/or SHA1 hashes
of the files, but that' a minor tweak.
So the focus of the discussion is silly. Trust is established once, in
some way. Use the same way again that satisfied you in the first place
and get on with life.
{^_^}- betting the real problem is infrastructure.
The only point I saw to the discussion was the first question
posed, which was:
Since Fedora got compromised, we'd like to know
what they run on their servers, and whether we
might ourselves be vulnerable to the same kind of
attack which compromised Fedora in the first place.
If so, we'd like to know what the attack was,
how it succeeded, and how to protect against it.
Recovery seems to me to be obvious and simple. I never saw
(perhaps I missed) an answer to the first question.
Mike
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Re: Can't switch to KDE
Craig White wrote:
On Fri, 2008-09-05 at 15:07 -0430, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
This is
why /etc/sysconfig/desktop is not a candidate for the job.
So how come it works for me and apparently many other people?
I'm under the impression that settings in /etc/sysconfig/desktop...
DISPLAYMANAGER=
has the effect of choosing which dm launches at next startup/launch of
runlevel 5
DESKTOP=
has the effect of choosing which desktop manager is the default for
users who haven't logged in previously.
I could be wrong and I've done no intelligent research on this but this
is what I think I have come to understand happens.
Craig
It appears that it gets checked a few times during boot, by
/etc/X11/prefdm
kills RHGB if it's running, and
sets the preferred display manager (gdm,kdm,xdm)
/etc/X11/xinit/xinitrc.d/xinput
sets the preferred session manager (gnome,kde)
/etc/X11/xinit/Xclients
this seems actually to execute the chosen
session manager (gnome-session,startkde,wmaker)
Mike
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Re: Printer takes ages to print one page with FC8
M. Fioretti wrote:
On Thu, Sep 04, 2008 01:33:32 AM -0600, Frank Cox wrote:
Most printers have a Test or Demo mode that can be activated by, for
[...]
Very good suggestion, I had completely forgotten about test modes,
thanks. With that model, it turns out that you have to press and hold
down the power button while you press a number of times the form feed
button. Pressing form feed 1, 4, 7 or 11 times (all values found
online) does print 4 different pages. The first is the demo page which
is perfect, afaict.
Then the printer is likely working fine, internally. You
may still have a cable problem, though not nearly so likely.
Tellya what! If the file doesn't contain secrets, send me a copy,
and I'll try to print a few pages. I know that you want to resolve
this issue, and you need to. However, if my printing a page or
two will get you over the hump I can mail them to you. They'll
look the same, because printed on the same model printer and all.
Second one returns install date (2005/11), total page count 5063,
other stuff, an alignment test of each color ( not 100% aligned) and
an Error code equal to 90020103. Google says other people have found
I also have gotten that error code. I forget exactly the cause,
but it is something meaningless. ISTR that just reseating the
print cartridges and powering off/on fixes that or something. Anyway,
my printer is working perfectly and shows that same error code.
I pulled the cartridges and reseated them, and turned power off/on
(using front button) and now that code is cleared. So, my vague
memory seems right. I think it means something like a nozzle doesn't
fire sometimes due to incorrect seating of the cartridge. I'd have
to research all over again. I just know that at one time a few
years ago I figured out it wasn't really meaningful.
this error code, but there are no explanation of what it means. Third
page is other textual info on paper-path calibration data and channels
A/B offset and gain table, nothing I can recognize as printer works
or printer is broken. Fourth page is two narrow columns of black
If it comes out, then printer works. This is a skew test.
From my own investigation years ago, I tried up to 32 presses, and got
these results:
Test pages printed by the HP DeskJet 895C series printers
Press and hold Power, and press and release Resume some number of times,
then release Power.
Number Results
-- ---
1 Print self-test page world-class professional print quality.
2-3*
4 Self-test page with printer series, serial number, service ID,
FW rev, page count, PCL default symbol set, mfg 0-2, errror
code, and a test of each jet nozzle.
5 Power and Resume lights flash in unison 10 times, then Power,
Resume, and Cartridge lamps flash in unison 3 times, then Power
and Resume lights flash in unison 1 time, then Power, Resume,
and Cartridge lights flash in unison 1 time, then Power and
Resume flash in unison 1 time.
6 Power and Resume lights flash in unison 16 times.
7 Print alignment sheet.
8 Print H sheets forever.
9-10 *
11 Print FW rev, paper-path calibraton data and channels A and B
offset and gain tables.
12 Print hex dump of the EEPROM contents.
13-19 *
20 Run a short cleaning cycle.
21 Run a medium cleaning cycle.
22 Run a long cleaning cycle.
23-32 *
33+ Not tried.
horizontal bars and grey points at the very sides of the page, some
rows or = signs in the center. Not sure what this mean, even if it
doesn't look good.
Does all this mean the printer is broken, not anything sw? Maybe, but
I'm not sure. Meanwhile, at the prompt it still gives:
So far, it looks like the printer is not faulty.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
~]# lpq DESKJET_895C is not ready
You need to restart the queues.
Mike
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Re: Ello, I'm sort of new to the lists...is it best to install from livecd?
Tim wrote:
Chris Tyler:
OTOH, I can't see why you'd avoid LVM these days in most
configurations. It's very stable, adds only very tiny overhead,
Does it have repair tools yet? Back when I first considered it,
recovering lost files, etc., from it seemed like it would be much more
[...]
That and the pain of trying to plug a second drive in from another
system to grab files off it, and them both having the same volume/group
names, really put me off it. It suffers the same problem of volume
labelling - stupid defaults, all installations get identically
identified.
This is a common problem with much software development. The
developers think about new features which make normal use
better by some criteria. However, they forget to take into
account that sometimes one needs not normal use. This even
happens with seemingly seasoned developers. I recall once
when a project lead designed a firmware update protocol for
a telecomm switch which, if it lost remote comm during the
update would leave the remote device in a state where someone
would have to go out to the site (some were in the Phillipines)
remove the board from the switch, and physically desolder the
FLASH chips from the board and replace them. We were doing a
walkthrough and I saw the glaring hole. I had gently to ask
questions and finally we got down to yes, but what happens
if the satellite link goes down right at this point, when
she finally saw the problem.
Thinking in terms of how to recover is a learned skill.
That's one of the reasons I don't run LVM. Another reason
is that, every single line of code on your machine is a place
for a defect to hide out. If you don't actually need the
code, then it shouldn't be there.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_testing
Has an interesting take on this issue. I disagree with some
of the statements. For example, the purpose of test is to
verify proper operation, not find defects. Defect finding is
more efficiently done by code reading. However, one really
good statement is
Many software defects are really Defects in Requirements.
No one thinks of putting data recovery into the requirements, so it
doesn't get put in. So, there's a hole.
As anyone who actually administers a machine knows, problems
do occur, and recovery is necessary. Sometimes recovery is
necessary due to bonehead actions by root.
Of course, best is when full backups of all data exist, so
that recovery, if it fails, is not catastrophic in effect.
Mike
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Re: Can't switch to KDE
Craig White wrote:
On Thu, 2008-09-04 at 14:22 -0430, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
On Thu, 2008-09-04 at 20:35 +0200, Timothy Murphy wrote:
Can't one just edit /etc/sysconfig/desktop ,
or doesn't that work any more?
It does work and has been mentioned here several times in the past. Note
that F9 doesn't seem to include the file by default so you have to
create it, and of course know what to put in it. For KDE:
#!/bin/sh
DESKTOP=KDE
DISPLAYMANAGER=KDE
I don't believe that any version of Fedora or RHEL populates a
file /etc/sysconfig/desktop but if present, it will be used.
My FC2 machine has it, and I didn't put it there by hand.
Mike
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Re: Can't switch to KDE
Craig White wrote:
On Thu, 2008-09-04 at 18:46 -0430, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
On Thu, 2008-09-04 at 16:36 -0500, Mike McCarty wrote:
Craig White wrote:
On Thu, 2008-09-04 at 14:22 -0430, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
On Thu, 2008-09-04 at 20:35 +0200, Timothy Murphy wrote:
Can't one just edit /etc/sysconfig/desktop ,
or doesn't that work any more?
It does work and has been mentioned here several times in the past. Note
that F9 doesn't seem to include the file by default so you have to
create it, and of course know what to put in it. For KDE:
#!/bin/sh
DESKTOP=KDE
DISPLAYMANAGER=KDE
I don't believe that any version of Fedora or RHEL populates a
file /etc/sysconfig/desktop but if present, it will be used.
My FC2 machine has it, and I didn't put it there by hand.
I'm pretty sure it used to be populated, but on F9 at least it's not
there by default. You have to create it.
Fedora 7
# uname -r
2.6.23.15-80.fc7
# rpm -q --whatprovides /etc/sysconfig/desktop
file /etc/sysconfig/desktop is not owned by any package
Fedora 8
# uname -r
2.6.25.14-69.fc8
# rpm -q --whatprovides /etc/sysconfig/desktop
file /etc/sysconfig/desktop is not owned by any package
RHEL 5
# uname -r
2.6.18-53.1.21.el5
# rpm -q --whatprovides /etc/sysconfig/desktop
file /etc/sysconfig/desktop is not owned by any package
RHEL 4
# uname -r
2.6.9-55.0.12.ELsmp
# rpm -q --whatprovides /etc/sysconfig/desktop
file /etc/sysconfig/desktop is not owned by any package
Pretty sure it used to be populated? I'm sorry but I can't go back any
farther
Craig
$ rpm -q --whatprovides /etc/fstab
file /etc/fstab is not owned by any package
The fact that a file is not created by RPM doesn't mean
that the system doesn't install and populate it during
install. I certainly have edited /etc/fstab, but I didn't
create it or initially populate it. This may also be true
of /etc/sysconfig/desktop.
Mike
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Re: Can't switch to KDE
Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
On Thu, 2008-09-04 at 20:18 -0500, Mike McCarty wrote:
$ rpm -q --whatprovides /etc/fstab
file /etc/fstab is not owned by any package
# rpm -qf /etc/fstab
setup-2.6.14-1.fc9.noarch
# rpm -qf /etc/sysconfig
filesystem-2.4.13-1.fc9.x86_64
#
$ rpm -qf /etc/fstab
file /etc/fstab is not owned by any package
$ rpm -qf /etc
filesystem-2.2.4-1
$ rpm -qf /etc/sysconfig/desktop
file /etc/sysconfig/desktop is not owned by any package
$ rpm -qf /etc/sysconfig
filesystem-2.2.4-1
So, the point is made. The fact that RPM doesn't know
about /etc/sysconfig/desktop doesn't mean that it
isn't set up and populated by install.
I don't know what set up /etc/sysconfig/desktop, possibly
RPM as part of /etc/sysconfig. In any case, I know that,
on my machine, I did not (directly) set up /etc/sysconfig/desktop.
Mike
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Re: InDependance
Jameson wrote:
On 9/3/08, g [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Jameson wrote:
Does anyone know why the InDependance package hasn't been maintained in so
long? It's used to automagically determine rpm build dependencies. Am I
missing a better way to do this?
would you please 'automagically' change your gmail configs to send
'text/plain', not 'text/html'? note 'Guidelines:' address at bottom
of page and have a read.
also, 'automagically' may be found at wikipedia or wiktionary, but it
is used primarily by 'msbsos heads'.
as for 'InDependance', i do not use it.
Sorry about the formatting. This is the first list I've ever seen
complain about it.
You are forgiven. However, it is considered rude in every list
not to read the list rules and FAQ before posting.
http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml
http://www.delorie.com/listserv/mime/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTML_e-mail
Mike
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Re: Printer takes ages to print one page with FC8
M. Fioretti wrote:
Hi,
I recently got this used HP Deskjet 895Cxi printer, connected it to PC
running FC8 and it's worked fine until yesterday. This morning it
started to behave strangely.
I also use an HP DeskJet 895Cxi.
I am working on an 8 page document in OpenOffice. When I tried to
print it all, I got the first 3 pages fine then nothing happened
anymore. The print jobs would show up as active via lpq and also in
the CUPS web interface, but nothing whatever would happen. No errors
in the CUPS log. After about 20 minutes waiting, I removed the print
job with lprm.
Then I tried to print only the 4th page, the exact same thing
happened:
There are a few possibilities. I list these in order of likelihood...
(1) You are printing a document created using MS tools and which
use some undocumented feature, which OpenOffice does not handle
well, and which it is translating into PostScript which gets into
infinite loops, or requests the printer to do something it cannot,
or etc. Try looking at the output from top and see if some interpreter
has gone batty. Try looking at the debugging output from CUPS (you
_do_ use CUPS?). Try sending the output to a file and then view/print
from ghostscript. Is the printer telling you anything, like with
flashing lights?
(2) You are printing a very large image, which is taking forever to
transmit, or perhaps which overflows the buffer in the printer. You
may possibly want to change your pre rendering setting to opposite
of what you use now.
(3) You may have a flaky cable which runs ok for transmitting all but
really rigorous collections of bytes, but when running full speed
fails. Usually, however, this shows up not always at the same spot,
and usually sporadically. Are you using a USB or a parallel? This
can sometimes happen with parallel.
Mike
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Re: Gnome Terminal and Session management Query
Dan Track wrote:
Hi
Guess no one has this type of problem. I'm curious how do you guys
then manage all your servers and network devices? Do you memorise the
hostnames or ip addresses and ssh or telnet in every time you need log
in?
Is there something fundamental I'm missing?
Mostly, the tools I use have no concept of saving a session, hence
I don't save any at all. I mostly use the CLI, my GUI mailer, and
my GUI web browser. All real work gets done with the CLI. The
mail client I simply leave running 24/7, and the web browser I
use the history when I need it. When I use the browser to attach
to my router or DSL modem, I simply use the entries I have in
my /etc/hosts file.
So, normally I boot, I log in, and I just run 24/7. I don't log
out except to reboot about once a month, to do a full backup.
I have no need for sessions. I do use workspaces. I have one
for my mailer, one for browser windows, one for temp work CLI,
and one for my day to day work CLI. The temp work CLI has a
copy of GIMPS running in it, and on demand I create a CLI
window, do a little work/maintenance, and close it.
Perhaps that answers your question.
Mike
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Re: Turn off bash completion?
James Wilkinson wrote:
I wrote:
into ~/.inputrc , and log in again, completion should be disabled.
You'll also have disabled the rest of the settings in /etc/inputrc: you
might like to either copy them across, or try putting
$include /etc/inputrc
into ~/.inputrc .
Mike McCarty replied:
Hmm, created ~/.inputrc
$ cat ~/.inputrc
include /etc/inputrc
set disable-completion on
Yes, I missed the $.
Then
$ su - myself
to get a login shell, and indeed completion is turned off.
HOWEVER, so is I. IOW, I can no longer type the letter i
in either upper or lower case. I can, however, type in a
tab. Hmm...
Weird.
If I use your .inputrc, then lower-case i stops working for me, too.
However, if I put the $ into the $include command, then the i key works
properly.
That's it. Works for me, now. However, either
include
does something funny to the leading i somehow
or means something to bash in some way I don't understand,
or
bash has some kind of defect.
I'm not familiar enough with bash to say which.
But you might, instead, like this ~/.inputrc :
$include /etc/inputrc
\C-i: self-insert
That will unbind completion from the tab key, but leave it working if
you pressing escape twice (which also works on some variants of ksh when
tab doesn't work).
Another good idea.
Mike
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Re: The Scope and Ownership of fedora-list
Ralf Corsepius wrote:
On Wed, 2008-08-27 at 11:47 -0500, Mike McCarty wrote:
[...]
I agree heartily. I suggest that the non-technical/political aspects
be reserved for another group, like Fedora-Advocacy or sth similar.
You don't want to lean about your distro's heritage, backgrounds,
objectives and the consequences of these?
You want to keep you head in the sand - Ostrich policy?
I don't need to learn. I first encountered Richard Stallman
in 1986, and we exchanged several e-mails about his ideas
at the time. I find the basis of the FSF very unappealing
to me personally. However, if that's what he wants to do, then
I'll take the product. Where it is good, that is. For a
while grep, for example, was an awful mess, and I wrote my
own and used it for a few years. Since that time grep has
undergone a complete rewrite.
Mike
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Re: The Scope and Ownership of fedora-list
Ralf Corsepius wrote:
On Thu, 2008-08-28 at 10:38 -0500, Mike McCarty wrote:
[...]
I first encountered Richard Stallman
in 1986, and we exchanged several e-mails about his ideas
at the time.
Then you're better off not using open source software and to quit using
Linux.
I'll bear your advice in mind. In fact, Solaris is an attractive
alternative.
Mike
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Re: Am I a Bonehead or what? (# rm /dev)
Mike McCarty wrote:
[deleted /dev]
Well, I boot a rescue disc, and copy off what was the original
real / onto another disc, and then start to ponder. I need help!
[...]
# cd /media/hda5
# mv dev dev_save
# rsync -a /dev .
# shutdown -r now
System now boots and runs. Mailer works fine.
Phew! Dodged a bullet!
Anything else I need to do?
I can't mount my external USB drive. My fstab entries are
/dev/sda1 /mnt/usb auto noauto,user,exec 0 0
/dev/sde1 /mnt/usb auto noauto,user,exec 0 0
Neither one of them will mount.
$ mount /dev/sda1
mount: special device /dev/sda1 does not exist
Same error for the other one. What am I missing?
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Re: Am I a Bonehead or what? (# rm /dev)
Mike McCarty wrote:
My printer is also gone. I need help rebuilding my /dev directory.
Can anyone help?
Mike
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Re: Am I a Bonehead or what? (# rm /dev)
Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:
Mike McCarty wrote:
Mike McCarty wrote:
[deleted /dev]
What version of Fedora? With any version with udev, there is the
No, no udev. This is FC2.
The rest of your commentary seems directed at the presence of
udev, which I don't have.
Sometimes I have to mount it as /dev/sda1 and sometimes as
/dev/sde1, and the latter didn't exist
Based on what I saw there, I did
# mknod -m 660 sde b 8 64
And now
# ls -l sd*
brw-rw 1 root named 8, 0 Aug 28 17:30 sda
brw-rw 1 root named 8, 16 Aug 28 17:30 sdb
brw-rw 1 root named 8, 32 Aug 28 17:30 sdc
brw-rw 1 root named 8, 48 Aug 28 17:30 sdd
brw-rw 1 root named 8, 64 Aug 28 20:38 sde
But still no joy. Need my printer back, too.
Mike
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Re: Am I a Bonehead or what? (# rm /dev)
Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:
Mike McCarty wrote:
Mike McCarty wrote:
[deleted /dev]
What version of Fedora? With any version with udev, there is the
During boot, I see two errors pop up...
/etc/rc5.d/S--... /dev/cpu/0/microcode does not exist
[so microcode updates not being applied]
/dev/sda1 cannot stat (from /etc/fstab)
The messages go by quickly, so I didn't get full text, but
it looks like a significant portion of /dev is still missing.
Interestingly, kudzu is not reporting that my printer is missing.
Mike
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Re: Am I a Bonehead or what? (# rm /dev)
Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:
Mike McCarty wrote:
Mike McCarty wrote:
[deleted /dev]
What version of Fedora? With any version with udev, there is the
device file system mounted on /dev once the system is booted, so as
long as the /dev/directory is there, the device entries should be
created on the fly. I don't remember if Fedora has any entries in
Perhaps I just need to execute /dev/MAKEDEV
?
Mike
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Re: Am I a Bonehead or what? (# rm /dev)
Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:
Mike McCarty wrote:
Mike McCarty wrote:
[deleted /dev]
What version of Fedora? With any version with udev, there is the
device file system mounted on /dev once the system is booted, so as
long as the /dev/directory is there, the device entries should be
/dev/MAKEDEV - /sbin/MAKEDEV
which does not exist.
Mike
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Re: Am I a Bonehead or what? (# rm /dev)
Kevin J. Cummings wrote:
Mike McCarty wrote:
Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:
Mike McCarty wrote:
Mike McCarty wrote:
[deleted /dev]
What version of Fedora? With any version with udev, there is the
No, no udev. This is FC2.
do the following:
rpm -qf /dev
This should tell you the name of the RPM which owns dev. You can then
re-install it (if you have it). You can probably find it using
rpm.pbone.net if you have to. I'm pretty sure that the script named
MAKEDEV or MAKEDEVS is what actually generates the devices in /dev/
Ok. Thanks for the advice!
$ rpm -qf /dev
dev-3.3.13-1
$ locate dev-3.3.13-1
[empty]
rpm.pbone.net turned up
ftp://ftp.muug.mb.ca/mirror/fedoralegacy/fedora/2/os/i386/dev-3.3.13-1.i386.rpm
Which I have downloaded. So now I do
# rpm -i --force
Followed by
# cd /dev
# ./MAKEDEV
Is that right?
Mike
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Re: Am I a Bonehead or what? (# rm /dev)
Kevin J. Cummings wrote:
Mike McCarty wrote:
Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:
Mike McCarty wrote:
Mike McCarty wrote:
[deleted /dev]
What version of Fedora? With any version with udev, there is the
No, no udev. This is FC2.
do the following:
rpm -qf /dev
Ok, I got the RPM for /dev and forced the install.
As it was running, my printer came to life and printed
out a previously queued page. Ok.
I can now also mount my external USB hard disc.
I did the same for MAKEDEV.
MAKEDEV is apparently not to be run by hand, as it only
creates one device. The soft link created before was
apparently as a result of the LiveCD having only the one
copy, so I don't expect anything in /sbin, I guess.
Ok, reboot to let MAKEDEV be run, and the microcode
installs fine.
My system seems to be back to normal.
Thanks very much!
This is definitely one of those keep a record of how to recover
from events.
Again, Thank You Very Much for helping me recover from
boneheaded root activities.
Mike
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Re: Am I a Bonehead or what? (# rm /dev)
Craig White wrote:
On Thu, 2008-08-28 at 22:01 -0500, Mike McCarty wrote:
Again, Thank You Very Much for helping me recover from
boneheaded root activities.
there's two types of people that use Linux CLI...
those that have mistakenly run rm -rf on the wrong directory and those
that won't admit it.
;-)
Craig
Defintely needed that, Craig! Long time no see! Decided to give
Feora a break. :-)
You know, I need to make me a bare metal restore DVD set.
I've seen on the web where one can do that w/o too much
trouble. At least I have backups just a few days old for
all my data, and I've put /home on its own disc, so no
real danger.
At least my old bonehead had enough in it to get some kind
of /dev enough to boot and ask questions here without having
to install another version of Linux.
To all who responded
THANKS!
Mike
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Re: The Scope and Ownership of fedora-list
Anders Karlsson wrote:
* Ralf Corsepius [EMAIL PROTECTED] [20080826 21:36]:
On Tue, 2008-08-26 at 14:39 -0400, Matthew Saltzman wrote:
On Tue, 2008-08-26 at 07:13 +0200, Ralf Corsepius wrote:
(Remember: Using Linux also is a political statement)
Maybe. Maybe not.
Well, to newcomer, it's likely not an obvious political statement, to
Linux veterans supporting Linux rsp. one of it's flavors (here: Fedora)
is a fully conscious active political statement/decision.
Chosing to use Linux may be a political statement. It may also be a I
picked the best tool for the job, and this time, it happened to be
Linux.
That's my situation. I was requested by an employer who wanted
me to install it. I just haven't removed it, because it works.
This might be news to newcomers who regard Fedora and Linux as a
technical alternative to Vista, ... but whether you like it or not,
Linux comes with political and philosophical strings attached, whether
you agree to them or not.
That is true.
Umm, the distro does not come with strings attached. However help
from this forum often comes only with strings attached.
What's not true is the percieved need to ram political and
philosophical views down the neck of some poor newcomer that requires
technical assistance. (I've made this point before.)
I agree heartily. I suggest that the non-technical/political aspects
be reserved for another group, like Fedora-Advocacy or sth similar.
IMHO - the community would be much better served by letting the first
list a new user subscribes to focus on help rather than
indoctrination. After all, we do want more users, right? :)
I agree heartily with this sentiment.
Mike
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Re: Turn off bash completion?
Frank Cox wrote:
On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 10:51:55 -0500
Mike McCarty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Because I find that I'm frequently hitting TAB when intending
to use CAPS-LOCK and getting extraneous stuff in my command line
which I then have to edit back out.
Have you considered re-arranging your keyboard layout?
(System-Preferences-Hardware-Keyboard)
It isn't I feature I would use, anyway. I have it turned off
in my web browser, for example. As mentioned by the previous
responder, I could just not use it, except that I find
it happening from time to time unexpectedly, and irritatingly.
I don't like the feature, and if it didn't intrude occasionally,
I'd just ignore it.
Rearranging my keyboard in order not to take advantage of a feature
I don't like doesn't sound appealing for some reason.
I was wrong about the error I encountered. I can type I but not i.
I wonder why it went away?
Mike
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Re: OT Electronics Help
Timothy Murphy wrote:
[...]
From my position of complete ignorance,
X10 seems based on a bizarre system of sending information
along power cables.
I would have thought wireless would have replace this years ago.
But as I say, I am a complete ignoramus on the subject.
Wireless and powerline are both subject to serious external
interference. Neither is suitable for critical control applications.
Mike
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Re: OT Electronics Help
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Okay so this is way off topic but I need some help. I tried doing a
Google search but I don't know enough to get my query right.
I have several external components that I would like to come on when my
computer comes on. I would also like them to go off when my computer goes
off. Some sort of electronic switch that I could plug in to one of my
PC's spare 4 pin power plugs work work fine.
To make things a little more complicated (and Linux related) I would also
like this. I have a water cooling system with a variable voltage water
pump. It would be nice if I could simply poll lmsensors and have a
program bump up the voltage until the CPU is below a certain temperature.
Ok, what voltage are we talking about controlling? Line power?
Low DC voltage for control? How much current? Is there a particular
device which you want to use, and which one could look up on
the web to get an idea of what your requirements are?
Mike
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Re: The Scope and Ownership of fedora-list
Jeff Spaleta wrote:
On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 11:42 AM, Mike McCarty
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I am no newbie to Linux, and I consider it simply a technical
alternative to other OS choices.
Then I have to work harder to make sure you understand that this
project is more than than the technical bits.
The project may be, but my use of its results is not part of the
project.
Mike
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Re: Permissions Denied error as root: SOLVED
James Wilkinson wrote:
R. G. Newbury wrote:
Weird bit is that I was logged in as root..WHICH WAS MISLEADING. When
'nonexec' is set, ALL users are denied execution privileges. (This is
most useful for security purposes in denying the use of programs on for
example a USB stick from compromising the system.
Similarly, a filesystem mounted read-only will be read-only for all
users¹, including root. You may find this more obvious, especially if
you remember hardware write-protect tabs on floppies.
James.
¹ But not the kernel – journalling filesystems may be rolled back or
rolled forwards if they weren’t cleanly unmounted.
AIUI...
Having root access only gives one effective ownership, not effective
permission. Being root gives one the same privileges the owner would
have.
Mike
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Re: Permissions Denied error as root: SOLVED
Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:
Mike McCarty wrote:
Having root access only gives one effective ownership, not effective
permission. Being root gives one the same privileges the owner would
have.
It gets more interesting when you have fuse mounted file systems. I
have an encrypted file system as user mikkel, and root can not
access it, unless I change to user mikkel, even if it is unlocked.
That makes perfect sense. Ownership and access are not the same
thing.
Mike
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Turn off bash completion?
I'd like to disable the bash completion feature. I've read
the info bash stuff, and I see lots of ways to specify what
happens after or during completion, but I didn't see (overlooked?)
how to turn it off. Any bash gurus out there know how to disable
it entirely?
I don't want to turn off line editing, just completion.
Mike
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Re: Automount of CD-ROMs no longer works
Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:
Mike McCarty wrote:
The CD drive works as expected. The DVD does not. When I put a
written CD into the CD drive, it mounts, and shows the label.
When I put the same disc into the DVD drive, it brings up the
CD Creator box, like it was blank. Closing that, and doing a mount
causes the disc to mount and be usable, but the label is not
noticed, it mounts just as cdrom1.
I didn't run FC2, so I am nt sure about this. Could it be that the
DVD-ROM drive is reporting that there is a disk in the drive, but
taking too long to report the rest of the information, so that the
system is assuming that it is a blank disk? (Or reporting error like
it is trying to read a blank disk...)
That's a good supposition.
I suppose that's possible. What I really need is to be able to know
that others use DVD-ROM drives and don't have this problem. I want
to narrow it down to either the DVD-ROM drive itself, settings in
FC2, or what. Until I know what the incompatibility is, I can't go
about fixing it. I don't want to return the drive, only to have
the replacement behave the same way. Perhaps I can put a CD-ROM
in there as well, and boot CentOS or similar LiveCD and see what
it thinks. If the drive works as expected with CentOS, then perhaps
that's the way to go. I really should be using a supported OS anyway.
If it does not work with a LiveCD, then perhaps there actually is
a problem with the drive itself.
Thanks for the reply!
Mike
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Re: [OT] Machine won't boot [SOLVED]
Marko Vojinovic wrote:
Ok, just for the record --- the problem turned out to be a rather rare
situation of both hard drive *and* dvd drive failing simoultaneously. Once
both of them were replaced, the machine came back to life. I figured this out
by using Alan's approach of removing virtually everything unneccessary, and
even substituting vital components with spares (dvd drive, memory and
graphics card) one by one and in combinations, in order to find the failing
component.
When trying to troubleshoot these recondite problems,
The first step is always reseat everything that can be wiggled. That
means all power connectors, RAMs (used to be chips would creep up
out of the sockets, modern RAM sticks seem to have solved that),
cables to drives, etc. If that didn't fix it, I used always
to remove everything but keyboard, video display all RAM but minimal to
boot the BIOS. If I could get past POST, then add in a boot device
which for me is a floppy my friend, less complicated. If that works,
then add RAM back in one bit at a time (no pun intended). If all
the RAM goes back in, then add one device at a time until it
starts to fail.
With today's machines, that's more difficult. It's hard to take
your printer port card out when it's just a piece of a chip on
the motherboard.
In any case, it's always best to disentangle everything as much
as possible and work with the minimal configuration which can
actually be expected to run (in some sense of the word).
Mike
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Re: Estimating System wattage
Michael Semcheski wrote:
On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 1:40 PM, Christopher Snook [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
You only need massive power supplies in a desktop if you're running high-end
video cards or something else that needs separate power inputs. Enjoy your
very long UPS runtime.
In my experience, peak power usage can be much higher than the average
power usage.
e.g., at boot time the system uses lots of power to spin up the drives
and fans. Once their rotational velocity is established, power usage
can drop to 50% of peak and stay down.
This is correct.
The other line of reasoning I've heard for buying an over-sized power
supply is because running the power supply closer to capacity will
This may or may not be correct. What kills most components like that
is heat. If you conduct the heat away, the PS will last a long time.
Running at reduced power helps by not generating as much heat. Sort of.
shorten its life. Also, power supplies may be more efficient running
at a fraction of their maximum rated capacity. i.e., a 200 watt power
May is definitely the watchword here. SMPSs like a minimum load. Below
that, they lose regulation, and some will explode. So, many PSs include
a minimum load inside them. This minimum load is absolute waste of
energy. Running an SMPS at very light load results in low efficiency.
I'm not an expert with UPSs, but I'm sure they use some sort of SMPS
to generate a sort of stepped sine wave, and suffer from some of
the same issues. Anyway, using an ordinary PC power supply which
is way overrated can result in low efficiency.
supply delivering 150 watts of power is less efficient than a 450 watt
power supply delivering 150 watts of power. Maybe someone who really
knows can respond to this point.
Mike
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Re: Automount of CD-ROMs no longer works
Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:
Mike McCarty wrote:
The CD drive works as expected. The DVD does not. When I put a
written CD into the CD drive, it mounts, and shows the label.
When I put the same disc into the DVD drive, it brings up the
CD Creator box, like it was blank. Closing that, and doing a mount
causes the disc to mount and be usable, but the label is not
noticed, it mounts just as cdrom1.
I didn't run FC2, so I am nt sure about this. Could it be that the
DVD-ROM drive is reporting that there is a disk in the drive, but
taking too long to report the rest of the information, so that the
system is assuming that it is a blank disk? (Or reporting error like
it is trying to read a blank disk...)
You know, that really is an idea. I wonder how one would configure
Gnome (or whatever is waiting) to wait longer.
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Format /dev/dsp expects?
Can anyone tell me what formats /dev/dsp, /dev/dsp56k,
/dev/audio, etc. expect? It seems that I can copy
a WAV format file directly to /dev/dsp and get recognizable
sound. I wonder just what format they actually expect.
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Re: Format /dev/dsp expects?
Michael Schwendt wrote:
On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 14:26:25 -0500, Mike McCarty wrote:
Can anyone tell me what formats /dev/dsp, /dev/dsp56k,
/dev/audio, etc. expect? It seems that I can copy
a WAV format file directly to /dev/dsp and get recognizable
sound. I wonder just what format they actually expect.
/dev/audio used to accept µ-law encoding, /dev/dsp accepts raw pcm as
configured via ioctl. The device doesn't evaluate any WAV header.
Thanks! So, if I want to use sox, I can specify the output to be
/dev/dsp and raw, and the input format to be whatever corresponds.
Mike
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Re: Automount of CD-ROMs no longer works
Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:
Well, I am running 2 DVD-RW - I forget the brands, but they show up
in dmesg as:
TSSTcorp CDDVDW SH-S202G
DVDRW DRW-5S163
dmesg shows:
[...]
hdc: SONY DVD RW DRU-V200A, ATAPI CD/DVD-ROM drive
[...]
hdc: ATAPI 48X DVD-ROM DVD-R-RAM CD-R/RW drive, 2048kB Cache, UDMA(33)
Uniform CD-ROM driver Revision: 3.20
[...]
They will both auto-mount CDs and DVDs. But this is with F8, so I do
not know if that helps with FC2.
One other thing to keep in mind when testing - some systems will not
boot from CD if there are 2 CD/DVD drives in the system at the same
time. I think it is getting kind of rare now, but I do run into it
once in a while.
Worth bearing in mind. My BIOS looks pretty savvy, but I'll watch
for that.
I hope this helps...
Well, you're being helpful, anyway. Thanks!
Mike
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Re: Format /dev/dsp expects?
Michael Schwendt wrote:
On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 16:32:20 -0500, Mike McCarty wrote:
There are several parameters that must match: bits per sample,
signed/unsigned samples, number of channels (mono/stereo), frequency
Endianness?
Add that to the list. :)
Aha. So, what do you recommend? I was using my computer to generate
some reference signals for testing some other equipment.
If you use sox already, use play, sox's player.
I don't see why you insist on copying data to raw device files.
I don't insist on anything, and I'm not a regular sox user.
I had a need for some reference signals, and had a computer
sitting nearby, but no other signal generating equipment.
A thought occurred to me that I could probably get something
out of the computer with a little work. I fiddled around until
I got the thing to work. That's all.
If you know better ways, I'm willing to hear them.
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Automount of CD-ROMs no longer works
I replaced my CD-ROM writer with a DVD-ROM writer, and now automounting
of either CD-ROMs or DVD-ROMs no longer takes place. Instead, the
CD-Creator gets started up, as it does for a blank writable CD-ROM.
I can force a mount by hand, which works. All the files show up and
the disc is usable. However, the label on the disc is not recognized,
and the mounted icon on the desktop simply shows it as CDROM.
I replaced the DVD writer with a Memorex 48x CD-ROM drive I
have lying around, and the auto mount and label recognition
both work. Putting the DVD writer back in made the symptoms
return. Kudzu didn't report anything about the change whatever.
Hardware:
Compaq Presario 2.7GHz Celeron (i386 build)
Sony DRU-V200A[-BR] (shows symptoms)
Memorex CD-482E (does not show symptoms)
Software:
$ uname -a
Linux Presario-1 2.6.10-1.771_FC2 #1 Mon Mar 28 00:50:14 EST 2005 i686
i686 i386 GNU/Linux
Gnome
I am aware that FC2 is very old, no need to comment.
I checked
Red Hat-Preferences-CD and DVD
and under Data Discs both Mount discs when inserted and
Start auto run programs when present are checked.
Someone please advise me on how to proceed to get this
drive to work for me the way I would like.
Mike
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Re: Automount of CD-ROMs no longer works
Tom Horsley wrote:
On Thu, 21 Aug 2008 18:18:11 -0500
Mike McCarty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Someone please advise me on how to proceed to get this
drive to work for me the way I would like.
Well, FC2 probably predates udev, but I know when I replaced
a DVD drive I found a rules.d/70-persistent-cd.rules file
which was apparently generated on first boot. I had to
modify the file to remove the pointers to the old drive and
make the new drive show up as the 1st device.
Wouldn't surprise me if there is something similar stashed
under /etc somewhere in FC2.
Your suggestion makes sense, except that the Memorex drive
is not the original, either. I don't have the original drive
here for test; it's at a friend's house. I installed both
the Sony and the Memorex on the same cable etc.; physically
the installations are identical.
After a manual mount, I have...
/dev/hdc on /mnt/cdrom type iso9660 (ro,nosuid,nodev,user=jmccarty)
My /etc/fstab entry looks like this:
/dev/cdrom /mnt/cdrom udf,iso9660 noauto,owner,kudzu,ro 0 0
[spaces removed for clarity of reading]
I wonder if this is different? It shows /dev/hdc mounted, not
/dev/cdrom.
$ ls -l /dev/cdrom
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 8 Aug 21 18:08 /dev/cdrom - /dev/hdc
Maybe I should look at the /dev/cdrom device when it's working.
I don't run udev...
$ man udev
No manual entry for udev
I had considered using udev, but after I read the documentation
by the author carefully, I decided that the solution he proposed
was worse than the problems I experienced, so I haven't pursued
it further.
Anyway, thanks for the reply!
Mike
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Re: Automount of CD-ROMs no longer works
Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:
Mike McCarty wrote:
After a manual mount, I have...
/dev/hdc on /mnt/cdrom type iso9660 (ro,nosuid,nodev,user=jmccarty)
My /etc/fstab entry looks like this:
/dev/cdrom /mnt/cdrom udf,iso9660 noauto,owner,kudzu,ro 0 0
[spaces removed for clarity of reading]
I wonder if this is different? It shows /dev/hdc mounted, not
/dev/cdrom.
$ ls -l /dev/cdrom
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 8 Aug 21 18:08 /dev/cdrom - /dev/hdc
Maybe I should look at the /dev/cdrom device when it's working.
You may want to run ls -l /dev/cdrom to see where it points to. If
Yes, that's what I did just up above. I guess you missed that.
Anyway, here's what it shows with the Memorex (which works)
$ ls -l /dev/cdrom
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 8 Aug 21 19:02 /dev/cdrom - /dev/hdd
The drive which isn't working the way I want is jumpered as
Master. The drive is on the end, however, so even if jumpered
as CS it would be Master. Well, I just pulled it, and it's
jumpered as Slave. That may well be the whole problem. Time
for another reboot and check.
this was the only device on the secondary IDE controller, and you
are not using cable select, then it is possible that the old drive
was jumpered as a slave drive, and the new on is jumpered as either
master or cable select. That would mess up the cdrom symlink.
Thanks for the idea!
Mike
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Re: Automount of CD-ROMs no longer works
Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:
You may want to run ls -l /dev/cdrom to see where it points to. If
this was the only device on the secondary IDE controller, and you
are not using cable select, then it is possible that the old drive
was jumpered as a slave drive, and the new on is jumpered as either
master or cable select. That would mess up the cdrom symlink.
To recap: the DVD drive which does not work was jumpered as Master,
while the CD drive which does work was jumpered as Slave.
Ok, I rejumpered the DVD drive to be Slave, and installed, and
the symptoms are as before, though the /dev/cdrom entry now
corresponds to the one which works with the CD drive. I also
rejumpered the CD drive as master, and reinstalled it, and
noted that the /dev/cdrom entry changed to match the one which
does not work with the DVD drive, and yet it works properly with
the CD reader.
So, while a good idea to try, it is not the answer. The CD drive
works as either Master or Slave, while the DVD drive works as
neither Master nor Slave. The symptoms follow the drive. Do I
perhaps need to make a device /dev/dvdrom? I thought the protocols
were identical.
Mike
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Re: Automount of CD-ROMs no longer works
Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:
You may want to run ls -l /dev/cdrom to see where it points to. If
this was the only device on the secondary IDE controller, and you
are not using cable select, then it is possible that the old drive
was jumpered as a slave drive, and the new on is jumpered as either
master or cable select. That would mess up the cdrom symlink.
Ok, I put both of them on the cable, jumpered as CS, with the CD
on the Master, and the DVD on the slave location. I rebooted, and
got an entry in my fstab...
/dev/cdrom /mnt/cdrom udf,iso9660 noauto,owner,kudzu,ro 0 0
/dev/cdrom1 /mnt/cdrom1 udf,iso9660 noauto,owner,kudzu,ro 0 0
[spaces edited]
Also,
$ ls -l /dev/cd*
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 8 Aug 21 19:26 /dev/cdrom - /dev/hdc
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 8 Aug 21 19:44 /dev/cdrom1 - /dev/hdd
brw-rw 1 root disk 15, 0 Feb 23 2004 /dev/cdu31a
brw-rw 1 root disk 24, 0 Feb 23 2004 /dev/cdu535
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 8 Aug 21 19:44 /dev/cdwriter - /dev/hdd
The CD drive works as expected. The DVD does not. When I put a
written CD into the CD drive, it mounts, and shows the label.
When I put the same disc into the DVD drive, it brings up the
CD Creator box, like it was blank. Closing that, and doing a mount
causes the disc to mount and be usable, but the label is not
noticed, it mounts just as cdrom1.
Mike
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Re: SHUT UP ALREADY!!!
Antonio Olivares wrote:
How can I convince these guys from stop sending this,
I try to convice them, but I can't. They do not stop :(
The only solution is to delete them everytime. There are no words these guys understand.
/* Letter from someone @ OGAGDAOUDGU */
I NEED YOUR URGENT ASSISTANCE AND UNDERSTANDING IN THIS PROJECT.NOT A SURPRISED
MAIL.
WITH DUE RESPECT,
[...]
http://www.snopes.com/crime/fraud/nigeria.asp
I use Thunderbird, and I have trained it by marking this stuff as
junk mail. It now automatically puts these messages into my junk
mail folder. Every couple of days I look for stuff which is not
junk, and move it out. The rest gets deleted. These are scammers
trying to get money out of you, and they send hundreds if not
thousands of copies of these messages out.
Mike
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Re: Legacy wiki -- statement?
Nils Breunese (Lemonbit) wrote:
Mike McCarty wrote:
Migrating them to what? That's my question.
CentOS 4. Why do you ask?
Nils Breunese.
You seem to think this is a foregone conclusion.
Well, I'm not moving to CentOS. I find the bickering and overbearing
attitude of the moderator of the unmoderated forum for assistance
to be unbearable.
Perhaps Scientific Linux would be better. I haven't looked at their
user forum. I'm downloading the Scientific Linux LiveCD right
now. Perhaps White Box.
I'm considering leaving Red Hat type product altogether. Perhaps
I'll switch to Debian. I'm already having to do system support
for a Debian box.
So, I don't understand why you wouldn't understand why one would
ask.
Mike
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Re: Legacy wiki -- statement?
Matthew Miller wrote:
On Mon, Dec 11, 2006 at 05:56:42PM -0600, Mike McCarty wrote:
We can't and shouldn't announce anything on core/extra's behalf, we
just need to say that the current model is being reorganized and while
doing so distributions X, Y, Z have effectively fallen out of
maintenance.
where X=2, Y=3, and Z=4. :)
Hmm. Do you mean FC2, FC3, and FC4? FC2 has been out of support
for quite some time, and for other reasons.
Well, I had three values to work with. :)
I'd love it if FC2 were still supported to any degree. It isn't,
and hasn't been and won't be, I guess.
Mike
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Re: Legacy wiki -- statement?
Nils Breunese (Lemonbit) wrote:
I was just thinking out loud really. I don't expect it is possible to
revive the Legacy Project at this point, but was just thinking that
maybe trying to get companies that build on Fedora (not just Fedora
Legacy) to supply resources might be a good idea. I don't know if this
already being done, but as I said: I was just thinking out loud. I
think you did a great job, Jesse, too bad it has to end like this.
Now, let me get started on migrating those last servers running legacy
versions of Fedora Core...
Migrating them to what? That's my question.
Mike
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Re: Important information regarding the merger of core and extras, and what this means to Legacy
Gene Heskett wrote:
I can't help but agree that its too short. 3 or 6 would be much more
realistic from the users viewpoint, who has his setup all fine tuned and
doesn't want to go thru that on an annual basis. There are other things
to life you know.
Yeah, like repairing vintage tube radios!
Mike
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Re: Announcing End of Life times (Fedora Core 1, 2, Red Hat Linux 7.3, 9)
Erik Forsberg wrote:
[snip]
Now, if I still need to have some RHL7.3 machines running, are there
any commercial alternatives available to fedora legacy for security
updates? I haven't any, but perhaps my Google luck is not good enough?
You might ask over on CentOS. But beware: The social atmosphere is
not so congenial as here at FL.
Mike
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Re: 1-2-3 out, time for FC2?
Jeff Sheltren wrote:
On Apr 10, 2006, at 12:29 AM, Mike McCarty wrote:
If things get to the point where I feel I *must* replace my load,
I'm switching to Debian.
Mike
Mike, I thought you had already stopped using Legacy. If so, I'm not
sure how this affects you.
I'm referring to your post here:
https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-legacy-list/2006-February/
msg00138.html
I'm not permitted to view that, so I can't respond specifically.
What I've done is remove Fedora Legacy from my yum update list.
I've still got FC2 loaded on my machine, but the load is frozen.
Mike
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Re: 1-2-3 out, time for FC2?
taharka wrote:
Howdy,
On Wed, 2006-04-12 at 13:36 -0500, Mike McCarty wrote:
Jeff Sheltren wrote:
On Apr 10, 2006, at 12:29 AM, Mike McCarty wrote:
If things get to the point where I feel I *must* replace my load,
I'm switching to Debian.
Mike
Mike, I thought you had already stopped using Legacy. If so, I'm not
sure how this affects you.
I'm referring to your post here:
https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-legacy-list/2006-February/
msg00138.html
I'm not permitted to view that, so I can't respond specifically.
What I've done is remove Fedora Legacy from my yum update list.
I've still got FC2 loaded on my machine, but the load is frozen.
You'd be permitted to view that, if the link wasn't wrapped :-( Try the
following instead ;-)
https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-legacy-list/2006-February/msg00138.html
I should have noticed that, myself! (wipes egg from face)
But it's exactly as I said...
Mike
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Re: 1-2-3 out, time for FC2?
Eric Rostetter wrote:
Quoting Mike McCarty [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
I have volunteered some time for test if
I will assume you mean the second part of QA, the verify step.
Well, perhaps I used the word test in a technical sense.
In my background, test means verification of proper operation.
(1) The changes can be contained so that they do not compromise
my machine if they fail. IOW, there is a guaranteed backout
which loses no information.
[snip]
So far, (1) has been a sticking point, I think.
This is a fact of life, and nothing specific to the FL Project.
And it applies to released packages (ala the recent sendmail
debacle) as well as test packages.
In other words, there is little that FL can do to help you meet those
two constraints. Even if we offered a virtual machine test environment,
your lack of disk space would probably prohibit its use.
Most likely.
Now, here is the real kicker:
You can do the first step of QA (publish votes rather than verify votes)
on ANY system and without compromising the system at all. It only involves
comparing the files to other known files, etc. You don't have to install
anything on the system. So, you can help, within your constraints, if
you choose, by doing the first QA step rather than the second.
Ok, if you can give me more information, I'll be glad to donate some
time.
Mike
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Re: 1-2-3 out, time for FC2?
Tres Seaver wrote:
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Jesse Keating wrote:
[snip]
Honestly, I feel that supporting FC1 for so long was a mistake. It set a
precedence that I really don't want to continue. Legacy picked a timeline
[snip]
Dropping the releases which get actual love may feel cleaner, but I
don't think you are going to get the folks who have been maintaining
those older releases to switch to a newer FC: they will, as you point
out, more likely switch away from Fedora altogether. Perhaps there are
a group of volunteers who care about more recent FC releases, and who
can take up the load.
If things get to the point where I feel I *must* replace my load,
I'm switching to Debian.
Mike
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Re: 1-2-3 out, time for FC2?
Josep L. Guallar-Esteve wrote:
On Tuesday 04 April 2006 22:07, NARS wrote:
I think FC2 is still used by many people, I would suggest you consider
supporting FC2 for some more time if possible.
Hi NARS,
I believe the problem is caused by lack of enough manpower. Maybe, if you can
round up some volunteers with time, machines and knowledge, FC2 might get
extended support.
If FC1 is still supported by Fedora Legacy (FL), it is b/c there are members
of FL that volunteer time, machines and knowledge to make it happen.
I have volunteered some time for test if
(1) The changes can be contained so that they do not compromise
my machine if they fail. IOW, there is a guaranteed backout
which loses no information.
(2) I have the space on my disc (which is admittedly rather low).
So far, (1) has been a sticking point, I think.
Mike
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Re: New sendmail and missing /usr/lib/sendmail
Marc Deslauriers wrote:
On Sun, 2006-03-26 at 23:48 -0600, Mike McCarty wrote:
Ah, now we get down to the nitty gritty of the desire to hasten
the process of going from a Test state to a Release state. Hopefully,
those who in past have seen no need to maintain a policy of no package
can move from Test state to Release state unless it has actually gone
through test to prove proper operation and want to change to one of
if enough time has lapsed, then even if no verification of proper
operation has taken place, we need to move from Test state to Release
state can see a little bit of the other side of the fence, now.
Curiously, sendmail actually DID get test votes for all platforms before
it got moved to official updates. No part of the QA process was
hastened.
Yes, I saw that. But I worded my statement very carefully. I carefully
used the wording test to prove proper operation, not normal test
procedures. Looking back on it, I should not have used the word
maintain in the exact context, since combining it with the word
change has caused you to infer that I consider that current test
procedure is one which verifies proper operation. I did not mean
to imply that.
This has happened before. Most packages that got pushed out that had
serious problems had been through QA and had people test them. One of
the php updates is an example I know of.
Marc.
Mike
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Re: New sendmail and missing /usr/lib/sendmail
Eric Rostetter wrote:
Quoting Marc Deslauriers [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Curiously, sendmail actually DID get test votes for all platforms before
it got moved to official updates. No part of the QA process was
hastened.
True, for the _current_ QA process. But not for the original QA process.
I don't know what that difference may have been. I do consider
current QA process to be, umm, inadequate.
[snip]
This has happened before. Most packages that got pushed out that had
serious problems had been through QA and had people test them. One of
the php updates is an example I know of.
Yes, but they often have only a few people testing them, with only one
vote per OS version... Not much QA really...
Amen, brother!
Mike
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Re: New sendmail and missing /usr/lib/sendmail
Eric Rostetter wrote:
Quoting Jesse Keating [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
On Fri, 2006-03-24 at 16:17 -0600, Mike Klinke wrote:
There is instead an entry in /usr/lib; sendmail.sendmail which
is linked to /usr/sbin/sendmail. Also the man pages no longer work
if you type; man sendmail You have to use man
sendmail.sendmail.
This sounds like the Alternatives system got confused and wasn't making
the links that it was supposed to, as stated in the spec file. Hrm.
This sounds like what happens when we rush the QA processes...
I've stopped trying to do QA because by the time I download the testing
version, install it, and start testing it, and well before I can submit
a report, the package gets released... Very frustrating.
Ah, now we get down to the nitty gritty of the desire to hasten
the process of going from a Test state to a Release state. Hopefully,
those who in past have seen no need to maintain a policy of no package
can move from Test state to Release state unless it has actually gone
through test to prove proper operation and want to change to one of
if enough time has lapsed, then even if no verification of proper
operation has taken place, we need to move from Test state to Release
state can see a little bit of the other side of the fence, now.
Mike
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Re: New sendmail and missing /usr/lib/sendmail
Michal Jaegermann wrote:
On Sat, Mar 25, 2006 at 10:24:12AM -0500, David Eisner wrote:
Eric Rostetter wrote:
This sounds like what happens when we rush the QA processes...
Other distros had advance warning about this vulnerability, and hence
more time to apply patches and do testing.
Personally I _hugely_ prefer fixed packages with minor packaging
imperfections, which BTW can be trivially fixed by whomever is
But, next time it may not be minor packaging imperfections which
can be trivially fixed.
installing them by adding a link or two, then waiting for something
which installs without a hitch and have a mail server owned in the
meantime. Headaches in both cases do not even start to compare.
I think that everybody should send Jesse big thanks for preparing
I'll second that, as well.
Mike
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Re: 1-2-3 out, time for FC2?
Nils Breunese (Lemonbit Internet) wrote:
[snip]
I just think it would be interesting (for Fedora Legacy) to have some
sort of idea of why people are running legacy versions of Red Hat and
Fedora, so FL knows 'who they are doing it for'. My guess is that it's
Oh, idle curiosity. Why would the people at FL be interested in any
particular user's motivation?
mostly people that have used Fedora Core for live servers that they
don't want to upgrade (people that maybe should've gotten another
distro, in my opinion) and there's people like James Kosin that won't
I do it because I should have used a different distribution. It came
about like this (since you express idle curiosity)...
I landed a contract programming job, and was requested to put Linux
and WinXP both as dual boot on my machine. More specifically, I was
requested to put FC2 on my machine. I worked on the software, which
was intended to run under Windows, Linux, SCO Unix, and other OS.
Now, the fellow who wanted me to run a Red Hat compatible Linux
only knew about FCx as being a good one. He was ignorant. But
that's what the boss wanted, so that's what I put on here. Probably
a re-spin like CentOS or Scientific Linux would have been better.
Now, the contract is over, but I have an FC2 box. I have zero motivation
to change, so I leave it as it is. If I upgrade it will not be
to any version of Fedora Core.
Mike
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Re: X-Chat 2.4.0 to 2.6
Danny Terweij - Net Tuning | Net wrote:
From: Mike McCarty [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Can someone provide a new version of X-Chat in legacy updates fc3 repo?
Probably not. legacy updates is for security and critical bug fixes
only.
Hmm that sucks.
That's the mission. You *did* read the mission statement, didn't you?
Nope. I dont like reading :P
It's considered rude and ill-mannered not to read the descriptions
FAQs and whatnot before posting a message.
[snip]
You think every user reading that?
It's rude not to do so before posting.
Here a practical user example:
You are a practical example of a rude internet user.
[snip]
This is a real example how most of the linux users are doing without read
any statement text. Because its not intresting to read :)
You, apparently, are the type who drops in to eat without
prior agreement not only with his friends, but also with
complete strangers.
Mike
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Re: no mandatory QA testing at all [Re: crazy thought about how to ease QA testing]
Rahul Sundaram wrote:
Mike McCarty wrote:
Rahul Sundaram wrote:
Hi
Yes, my indictment earlier was for *all* distributions of Linux.
But Legacy has gone further than I can follow along, that's all.
We are merely discussing a proposal so legacy process hasnt gone further
That is not my understanding.
at all. You also state that other distributions QA process is better.
Other distros do have better QA, as Red Hat itself says about FCx.
RHEL has, per Red Hat, better QA than FC.
Comparing a commercial product to a community project is unfair. Lets
hear about QA processes documented in other community projects.
Eh? My comment, as I asserted again, was about all Linux distros.
None of them has adequate QA. But I know of nobody who has proposed
to move software automatically from a test state to a release state
merely based on time elapsed except for FC and FCL.
[snip]
See the other mails regarding this.
Certainly did.
Mike
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Re: no mandatory QA testing at all [Re: crazy thought about how to ease QA testing]
Rahul Sundaram wrote:
This is not a discussion about personal opinions on QA policies within
I haven't presumed to dictate the content of your messages, or state
what your intended topic was. Please grant me the same privilege.
Or are you acting as a moderator?
Mike
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Re: no mandatory QA testing at all [Re: crazy thought about how to ease QA testing]
Jesse Keating wrote:
On Tue, 2006-02-14 at 02:31 -0600, Mike McCarty wrote:
Ok then, it seems to me that there is no longer any distinction
between the released repository, and the test repository.
So, please send out an e-mail three days before the first
timed release so I can pull a last tested version before
removing the legacy repository from my yum configuration.
I appreciate your concern mike, however if we have people testing during
the timeout period, then there would be no untested packages. If I see
I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean. Perhaps I misunderstood
what the proposal is. My understanding is that there are new
versions of software which supposedly repair security defects in
something called testing. And that until they are tested by some
volunteers, they remain there. I understand that the proposal is
to institute a time limit such that if software resides in testing
without any further testing actually being done, then it automatically
enters released after a set time period.
too many packages go w/out testing on a given platform, I'm going to
drop that platform as not having enough community interest. This is a
If this is the case, then what is the proposal?
very self service project. You get out of it what you put into it.
More accurately, I get out of it what I pull from the repositories.
Mike
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Re: no mandatory QA testing at all [Re: crazy thought about how to ease QA testing]
Jesse Keating wrote:
On Tue, 2006-02-14 at 12:54 -0600, Eric Rostetter wrote:
[snip]
I don't think so. And in any case, I was refering to the suggestion on
this list that we don't do QA to move to updates-testing, which would
by-pass this whole issue you try to bring up.
Well I won't agree to anything that bypasses the patch check step. QA
must still happen before we put a package into updates-testing.
I haven't noticed that you/anyone were asked. There was a
pseudo-question indicating that this is what would happen, unless
there was strong objection. I stated that if it happened I was going
to withdraw from Legacy updates to my machine, which I think is the
strongest possible objection there could be. The decision seemed to be
made, anyway, so I have withdrawn. I suggest that, instead of continuing
to argue with people who have made up their minds, you simply
withdraw, and maintain control of what gets installed on your
machine. Or perhaps you are referring to something different?
Another thing to think about is we are putting in more QA into our
updates that Fedora upstream puts into the updates it issues into live
releases. Just food for thought.
IMO, good reason not to use FCx for production machines.
Mike
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Re: no mandatory QA testing at all [Re: crazy thought about how to ease QA testing]
Rahul Sundaram wrote:
Mike McCarty wrote:
Then the Legacy Project has removed my ability not to subscribe
to testing.
Seems to be a misunderstanding here. There are separate repositories for
testing and general legacy updates. Yes?
AIUI, there will be objects put into testing. These then will be
automatically moved to rlease state after either some QA takes
place, or some time lapses, whichever comes first. IMO, this is
tantamount to merging test and release states.
Always willing to be corrected if I have misunderstood the
proposal.
Mike
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Re: no mandatory QA testing at all [Re: crazy thought about how to ease QA testing]
Jesse Keating wrote:
Our hope is that if this proposal scares some people, it will scare them
into finding ways to help out the project so that little to no packages
escape updates-testing w/out some QA done on it.
It doesn't frighten me at all, but it does discourage me from using
the repository.
Mike
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Re: no mandatory QA testing at all [Re: crazy thought about how to ease QA testing]
Eric Rostetter wrote:
[snip]
Proposal one does nothing but shorten the time period for pushing an
update-testing package that doesn't have enough QA postings.
Proposal two does nothing but make it possible to push packages through the
entire system with NO QA AT ALL being done on them.
Thank you. I couldn't have put it better myself.
I probably will not be contributing further to this thread,
as I've already stated my position, and I've taken action
to protect my machine by removing Legacy from yum.conf
Mike
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Re: no mandatory QA testing at all [Re: crazy thought about how to ease QA testing]
Jesse Keating wrote:
On Tue, 2006-02-14 at 15:09 -0600, Mike McCarty wrote:
I have been apalled at what generally passes as QA in the
Linux Community generally, and FC specifically. Since I
barely tolerate what exists now, it is difficult to contemplate
someone considering even more laxity saying I'm not so sure
what the problem is here. I am astounded, amazed, and shocked.
I don't see a problem because this is not an enterprise class operating
system, we are not an enterprise class project, and you don't get
I guess that I didn't quite make myself clear, using an undefined
and perhaps ambiguous term Linux Community. By this term I mean
those who work on Linux, GNU, and all applications which generally
are released by those who like the idea of Linux+GNU. Software
development in this rather amorphous network of contributors
has what SEI would call a chaotic process.
enterprise class QA for free. Please look into RHEL if you want
guaranteed QA. CentOS won't be enough for you as there is very little
I am apalled at what passes for QA in every distribution I have
had experience with. I said Linux Community. This includes even
things which are neither Linux, nor GNU.
Major distros I have experience with:
Red Hat (pre enterprise)
Blue Hat
LynxOs (redist)
Fedora Core
Debian
SuSe
Mandrake (now Mandrivia)
Slackware
I was involved in a cooperative effort with some people at
Red Hat corp. to beef up the QA they do with Blue Hat, though I
was never really satisfied with their procedures. I have to
admit that I found Greg Rose with Blue Hat a very nice guy, and used
to eat lunch with him on a semi-regular basis. But he was
reluctant about implementing any real QA changes.
I was disappointed when LynxOs picked up Linux and abandoned
their own product, which was superior.
I also have some experience with minor distros.
(Well, maybe LynxOs should be put into the minor list.
Or even Blue Hat. But I think that most of the others
will be recognized by most people here.)
What I am appalled by is the general feeling of I should get things my
way, and it should be free I see in the Linux user community. As I've
stated before, you get out what you put in.
I get out what I download, be it good or bad. In some cases, I got
what I paid for. Red Hat, Blue Hat, LynxOs, SuSe and Mandrivia are *not*
free.
I haven't said one word demanding, insisting, or even requesting
that things be done differently. I have stated what my actions
would be if the new policy is implemented, and I have taken those
actions. So I guess I'm not one of the general Linux user community
you refer to.
I wonder how profitable further discussion would be?
Mike
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Re: no mandatory QA testing at all [Re: crazy thought about how to ease QA testing]
Eric Rostetter wrote:
Quoting Mike McCarty [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Then the Legacy Project has removed my ability not to subscribe
to testing.
No, the Legacy Project has _proposed_ to that, at least in your opinion.
It was followed by something like unless we get a lot of objection so
please, if you object, let it be known.
I did object, and then I saw that the decision was *made*.
Since Legacy is no longer in my yum configuration, it's no longer
an issue for me, good or bad.
Yes, we lose a few people from the community every time this issue comes
up. I guess the hope is we will gain more if we release more, but I'm not
sure it is true (hasn't been so far, as far as I can tell).
You didn't lose me because the issue came up, you lost me
because /a decision was made/.
I don't wish to subscribe to testing.
Since testing and release have been merged, I have unsubscribed
from release.
No, it was proposed that we merge them, but it is still under
consideration,
and can still be blocked. Your action is a bit premature. But then,
considering some of the responses you have received in e-mail (like having
to pay to be notified) I don't blame you too much.
Mike
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