Re: low-level formatter for linux
[excuse delay in reply. thread got move to archive in error. just now found.] Markus Kesaromous wrote: Why I need to do low level formatting? Disk monitor is reporting 93 uncorrectable sector errors. then you need to get tools from oem. Is that a good enough reason? :) one of many. PS: If I had something on the disk to hide from prying eyes, I would resort to a very simple solution: break open the drive (very easyli done), and place the platters on the fire grill for about 60 minutes. Ask a physics professor. See what he has to say about it :) 60 minutes on grill is a lot loner than needed. when i want to totally destroy a disk platter, i burn off oxide coating using lighter fluid. works just as good and does not stink up grill. besides, who wants their stakes smelling and tasting like oxide. if i want to reuse platter, i use a big magnet i have from a klystron tube radar unit and reformat low level. tho i have not done so lately with ide disk drives. worked great with mfm. as for asking a physics prof, i really do not need to ask his opinion of something that i have known for a long time. -- peace out. tc,hago. g . in a free world without fences, who needs gates. ** help microsoft stamp out piracy - give linux to a friend today. ** to mess up a linux box, you need to work at it. to mess up an ms windows box, you just need to *look* at it. ** learn linux: 'Rute User's Tutorial and Exposition' http://rute.2038bug.com/index.html 'The Linux Documentation Project' http://www.tldp.org/ 'LDP HOWTO-index' http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/HOWTO-INDEX/index.html 'HowtoForge' http://howtoforge.com/ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: low-level formatter for linux
On Tue, 2009-08-18 at 00:05 +, g wrote: when i want to totally destroy a disk platter, i burn off oxide coating using lighter fluid. works just as good and does not stink up grill. besides, who wants their stakes smelling and tasting like oxide. Years ago, I let my young nephew play with an old hard drive, vice grips, a drill, and a hammer. It kept him out of our hair for a very long time, and there was nothing salvageable left of the drive. ;-) You could, of course, try running Windows on the drive. It seems excellent at destroying data without even trying. -- [...@localhost ~]$ uname -r 2.6.27.25-78.2.56.fc9.i686 Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored. I read messages from the public lists. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: low-level formatter for linux
Tim wrote: You could, of course, try running Windows on the drive. It seems excellent at destroying data without even trying. i agree. that was one of good things about mfm drives. running low-level formatting after they crashed and would not take a regular format. it got to a point that when ever i had a system crash, i would not bother with regular formatting, just pull out oem disk, run low-level to insure that bad sectors were written to table and the regular format. -- peace out. tc,hago. g . in a free world without fences, who needs gates. ** help microsoft stamp out piracy - give linux to a friend today. ** to mess up a linux box, you need to work at it. to mess up an ms windows box, you just need to *look* at it. ** learn linux: 'Rute User's Tutorial and Exposition' http://rute.2038bug.com/index.html 'The Linux Documentation Project' http://www.tldp.org/ 'LDP HOWTO-index' http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/HOWTO-INDEX/index.html 'HowtoForge' http://howtoforge.com/ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: low-level formatter for linux
On Tue, Aug 04, 2009 at 08:45:22PM -0700, Markus Kesaromous wrote: Markus Kesaromous wrote: Is there a low-level HD formatter for linux? Why I need to do low level formatting? Disk monitor is reporting 93 uncorrectable sector errors. After you archive any data to another device look at the disk with vendor specific tools. Modern drives keep a log of hardware events and errors. These logs are IMPORTANT and informative. For example a laptop with an ill disk I just repaired noticed that it had been dropped (g-force sensor). We were able to read the data but writes mostly failed. You did not say if these are uncorrectable read or write errors. In general disks will spare a bad block ONLY on a write. 93 defects all on one track might be OK in some cases but as others noted plan to replace it. -- T o m M i t c h e l l Found me a new hat, now what? -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: low-level formatter for linux
Markus Kesaromous wrote: Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 19:13:13 -0700 From: peter.langfel...@gmail.com To: fedora-list@redhat.com Subject: Re: low-level formatter for linux On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 6:58 PM, Markus Kesaromous wrote: I canvassed the web looking for a linux util that will low-level format a hard drive, and found noting but dos and windows tools. Is there a low-level HD formatter for linux? Markus K. How low is low? mkfs will build a file system of a specified type, i.e. format a partition with a given file system. It is a command-line utility and so low level in my book, but maybe not in yours. HTH Peter -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines Sorry I did not clarify - By low level, I do not mean Filesystem creation. I mean it the level at which bad-block forwarding takes place (i.e. all blocks are tested for sanity, and the bad blocks are forwarded to good blocks. This in some cases may result in reduced total number of blocks, and thus might (emphasis on might) affect the disk geometry. In the bad old days, we used to do low lever format of a disk using a dos asm command and hand enter a set of instructions. I do not recall what those instructions were, and I am not certain they would work on a 500GB drive. Now that all I have is linux, and my HD has developed many bad blocks, I need to back it up and do low level formatting. So, I need a Linux based low level formatting tool. I'm not sure what you expect low level formatting to do for you, backing up and writing and reading to every sector will force all current bad blocks to be found, but honestly has developed many bad blocks is another way of saying is failing and is a hint to replace now. When a drive starts relocating sectors (as seen in SMART), something is wrong with the drive. Check temps, this is the time of year when heat becomes a problem in many places, trying to cool with 40C air doesn't work well. -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: low-level formatter for linux
Markus Kesaromous wrote: See below, but the bottom line is that your drive is dying, the only question is if you will leave your data on it. From: gene.hesk...@verizon.net To: fedora-list@redhat.com Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 00:33:27 -0400 Subject: Re: low-level formatter for linux On Tuesday 04 August 2009, Markus Kesaromous wrote: Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 03:33:25 + From: gel...@bellsouth.net To: fedora-list@redhat.com Subject: Re: low-level formatter for linux Markus Kesaromous wrote: Is there a low-level HD formatter for linux? linux-google search low-level+format, will give 97k hits. mainly, for a truly oem *low-level format* you need an oem format program. they are available in dos format. you will get advice to use 'dd' to zero out sectors. you will find programs to do all sorts of security erasers. for all practical purposes of clearing up why you need 'llf', did you now have live-in girl friend and you want to be sure she does not find your pron? ;) your boss caught you with it on *his* computer? for practical purposes, girl friend included, using 'dd if=/dev/random of=/dev/sdn bs=65536' will removed any thing you need to worry about. for legal reasons, fbi, irs, boss, etc, log; http://www.linux-kurser.dk/secure_harddisk_eraser.html for a type of 'erase' programs available. there are many more, so you can look thru rest of 97k, or modify low-level+formatter to lessen. much fun to you. :) -- peace out. tc,hago. g . in a free world without fences, who needs gates. ** help microsoft stamp out piracy - give linux to a friend today. ** to mess up a linux box, you need to work at it. to mess up an ms windows box, you just need to *look* at it. ** learn linux: 'Rute User's Tutorial and Exposition' http://rute.2038bug.com/index.html 'The Linux Documentation Project' http://www.tldp.org/ 'LDP HOWTO-index' http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/HOWTO-INDEX/index.html 'HowtoForge' http://howtoforge.com/ Why I need to do low level formatting? Disk monitor is reporting 93 uncorrectable sector errors. If that drive cannot correct them, it is already out of spare sectors and is using its input power for life support. But to be sure, please post the output of 'smartctl -a /dev/sdX' where X is the rest of that devices name, a,b,c,d,e etc. I'd retire it, before it falls over taking your data with it. Or are you running amanda? I do. And I don't worry too much, I can do a bare metal install on a fresh drive, fire up one of amanda's two recovery tools, and have my 99GB restored in about 3 hours, including the final reboot to put in my latest kernel. Is that a good enough reason? :) PS: If I had something on the disk to hide from prying eyes, I would resort to a very simple solution: break open the drive (very easyli done), and place the platters on the fire grill for about 60 minutes. Ask a physics professor. See what he has to say about it :) _ Get free photo software from Windows Live http://www.windowslive.com/online/photos?ocid=PID23393::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-U S:SI_PH_software:082009 -- Cheers, Gene There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them. Truth is the most valuable thing we have -- so let us economize it. -- Mark Twain -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines I don't know enough about amanda. Guess I have to read up on it. Here is the output: # smartctl -a /dev/sdb smartctl version 5.38 [i386-redhat-linux-gnu] Copyright (C) 2002-8 Bruce Allen Home page is http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net/ === START OF INFORMATION SECTION === Model Family: Seagate Barracuda 7200.9 family Device Model: ST3500641AS Serial Number:3PM07SFG Firmware Version: 3.AAD User Capacity:500,107,862,016 bytes Device is:In smartctl database [for details use: -P show] ATA Version is: 7 ATA Standard is: Exact ATA specification draft version not indicated Local Time is:Tue Aug 4 21:42:21 2009 PDT SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability. SMART support is: Enabled SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 10 Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds: ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE UPDATED WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE 1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate 0x000f 108 078 006Pre-fail Always - 157925240 3 Spin_Up_Time0x0003 096 096 000Pre-fail Always - 0 4 Start_Stop_Count0x0032 100 100 020Old_age Always - 670 5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 100 100 036
Re: low-level formatter for linux
On 09-08-08 11:54:37, Bill Davidsen wrote: ... I'm not sure what you expect low level formatting to do for you, backing up and writing and reading to every sector will force all current bad blocks to be found, One thing is that each of those blocks requires a long seek to the replacement block. After the drive manufacturer's low-level format, all the blocks are in order, with only short skips past the bad blocks, and possibly a slight reduction in the size of the spare blocks area. but honestly has developed many bad blocks is another way of saying is failing and is a hint to replace now. When a drive starts relocating sectors (as seen in SMART), something is wrong with the drive. ... ... Modern drives (last 8 or so years) have good support for automatic remapping of bad blocks, because bad blocks are expected at the magnetic domain sizes being used. With Automatic Offline Testing enabled, most bad blocks are remapped before complete failure and without data loss. I've been using one dying drive for 7 more years now (with one low- level format), and another for about 4 more years. I'm using a drive I found in a snowbank, without difficulty and without bad sectors. I have SMART monitoring enabled, so email will be sent to root if SMART gets unhappy, and Auto Offline Data Collection enabled, so blocks are being salvaged as they go bad. I'm /not/ using that panicky Palimpsest (gnome-disk-utility applet), so I don't get spurious warnings (moderate numbers of reallocated sectors are not bad -- though offline- uncorrectable and pending sectors are bad). -- TonyN.:' mailto:tonynel...@georgeanelson.com ' http://www.georgeanelson.com/ -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: low-level formatter for linux
Bill Davidsen wrote: Markus Kesaromous wrote: See below, but the bottom line is that your drive is dying, the only question is if you will leave your data on it. From: gene.hesk...@verizon.net To: fedora-list@redhat.com Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 00:33:27 -0400 Subject: Re: low-level formatter for linux On Tuesday 04 August 2009, Markus Kesaromous wrote: Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 03:33:25 + From: gel...@bellsouth.net To: fedora-list@redhat.com Subject: Re: low-level formatter for linux Markus Kesaromous wrote: Is there a low-level HD formatter for linux? linux-google search low-level+format, will give 97k hits. mainly, for a truly oem *low-level format* you need an oem format program. they are available in dos format. you will get advice to use 'dd' to zero out sectors. you will find programs to do all sorts of security erasers. for all practical purposes of clearing up why you need 'llf', did you now have live-in girl friend and you want to be sure she does not find your pron? ;) your boss caught you with it on *his* computer? for practical purposes, girl friend included, using 'dd if=/dev/random of=/dev/sdn bs=65536' will removed any thing you need to worry about. for legal reasons, fbi, irs, boss, etc, log; http://www.linux-kurser.dk/secure_harddisk_eraser.html for a type of 'erase' programs available. there are many more, so you can look thru rest of 97k, or modify low-level+formatter to lessen. much fun to you. :) -- peace out. tc,hago. g . in a free world without fences, who needs gates. ** help microsoft stamp out piracy - give linux to a friend today. ** to mess up a linux box, you need to work at it. to mess up an ms windows box, you just need to *look* at it. ** learn linux: 'Rute User's Tutorial and Exposition' http://rute.2038bug.com/index.html 'The Linux Documentation Project' http://www.tldp.org/ 'LDP HOWTO-index' http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/HOWTO-INDEX/index.html 'HowtoForge' http://howtoforge.com/ Why I need to do low level formatting? Disk monitor is reporting 93 uncorrectable sector errors. If that drive cannot correct them, it is already out of spare sectors and is using its input power for life support. But to be sure, please post the output of 'smartctl -a /dev/sdX' where X is the rest of that devices name, a,b,c,d,e etc. I'd retire it, before it falls over taking your data with it. Or are you running amanda? I do. And I don't worry too much, I can do a bare metal install on a fresh drive, fire up one of amanda's two recovery tools, and have my 99GB restored in about 3 hours, including the final reboot to put in my latest kernel. Is that a good enough reason? :) PS: If I had something on the disk to hide from prying eyes, I would resort to a very simple solution: break open the drive (very easyli done), and place the platters on the fire grill for about 60 minutes. Ask a physics professor. See what he has to say about it :) _ Get free photo software from Windows Live http://www.windowslive.com/online/photos?ocid=PID23393::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-U S:SI_PH_software:082009 -- Cheers, Gene There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them. Truth is the most valuable thing we have -- so let us economize it. -- Mark Twain -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines I don't know enough about amanda. Guess I have to read up on it. Here is the output: # smartctl -a /dev/sdb smartctl version 5.38 [i386-redhat-linux-gnu] Copyright (C) 2002-8 Bruce Allen Home page is http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net/ === START OF INFORMATION SECTION === Model Family: Seagate Barracuda 7200.9 family Device Model: ST3500641AS Serial Number:3PM07SFG Firmware Version: 3.AAD User Capacity:500,107,862,016 bytes Device is:In smartctl database [for details use: -P show] ATA Version is: 7 ATA Standard is: Exact ATA specification draft version not indicated Local Time is:Tue Aug 4 21:42:21 2009 PDT SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability. SMART support is: Enabled SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 10 Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds: ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE UPDATED WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE 1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate 0x000f 108 078 006Pre-fail Always - 157925240 3 Spin_Up_Time0x0003 096 096 000Pre-fail Always - 0 4 Start_Stop_Count0x0032 100 100 020Old_age Always - 670 5
Re: low-level formatter for linux
Tony Nelson wrote: On 09-08-08 11:54:37, Bill Davidsen wrote: ... I'm not sure what you expect low level formatting to do for you, backing up and writing and reading to every sector will force all current bad blocks to be found, One thing is that each of those blocks requires a long seek to the replacement block. After the drive manufacturer's low-level format, all the blocks are in order, with only short skips past the bad blocks, and possibly a slight reduction in the size of the spare blocks area. but honestly has developed many bad blocks is another way of saying is failing and is a hint to replace now. When a drive starts relocating sectors (as seen in SMART), something is wrong with the drive. ... ... Modern drives (last 8 or so years) have good support for automatic remapping of bad blocks, because bad blocks are expected at the magnetic domain sizes being used. With Automatic Offline Testing enabled, most bad blocks are remapped before complete failure and without data loss. I've been using one dying drive for 7 more years now (with one low- level format), and another for about 4 more years. I'm using a drive I found in a snowbank, without difficulty and without bad sectors. I have SMART monitoring enabled, so email will be sent to root if SMART gets unhappy, and Auto Offline Data Collection enabled, so blocks are being salvaged as they go bad. I'm /not/ using that panicky Palimpsest (gnome-disk-utility applet), so I don't get spurious warnings (moderate numbers of reallocated sectors are not bad -- though offline- uncorrectable and pending sectors are bad). Depends on your ratio of time to money. I just bought a 500GB WD green drive for about $55, I don't have to spend time fiddling with backups (not to mention trusting them) other than the regular, and I can do each of the steps to clone and verify, including the drive swaps, in time increments shorter than a commercial break or a kernel compile. So I can watch a game or race with my wife or while something downloads, or compiles, or I'm on hold with vendor support, and I value my time a lot more than $55. Actually if I save billable time I make money, but that's a different issue. If you like to fiddle with computer hardware, or are on a tight budget, getting the last rotation out of the drive makes sense. I regularly give my old drives to my assorted relatives because replace or upgrade makes sense to me. I have an obsolete machine with DBAN as the OS. ;-) -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: low-level formatter for linux
From: Markus Kesaromous remotes...@live.com
Sent: Tuesday, 2009/August/04 20:45
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 03:33:25 +
From: gel...@bellsouth.net
Markus Kesaromous wrote:
Is there a low-level HD formatter for linux?
linux-google search low-level+format, will give 97k hits.
mainly, for a truly oem *low-level format* you need an oem format
program.
they are available in dos format.
you will get advice to use 'dd' to zero out sectors.
you will find programs to do all sorts of security erasers.
for all practical purposes of clearing up why you need 'llf',
did you now have live-in girl friend and you want to be sure
she does not find your pron? ;)
your boss caught you with it on *his* computer?
for practical purposes, girl friend included, using
'dd if=/dev/random of=/dev/sdn bs=65536'
will removed any thing you need to worry about.
for legal reasons, fbi, irs, boss, etc, log;
http://www.linux-kurser.dk/secure_harddisk_eraser.html
for a type of 'erase' programs available.
there are many more, so you can look thru rest of 97k,
or modify low-level+formatter to lessen.
much fun to you. :)
--
peace out.
tc,hago.
g
Why I need to do low level formatting?
Disk monitor is reporting 93 uncorrectable sector errors.
Is that a good enough reason? :)
PS: If I had something on the disk to hide from prying eyes, I would
resort
to a very simple solution: break open the drive (very easyli done), and
place the platters on the fire grill for about 60 minutes. Ask a physics
professor. See what he has to say about it :)
Markus, it's dead. Get worthwhile data off of it. Then destroy it in your
preferred manner. When drives accumulate more errors than there were spares
when it was originally formatted it's toast.
You might get a few more months off of it. How much is that worth to you
at the risk of the disk becoming unreadable? That many errors suggests the
head is damaged or for some reason the oxide is flaking off. Once the head
is damaged or the oxide does strange things there is little hope for the
drive's future.
{^_^}
--
fedora-list mailing list
fedora-list@redhat.com
To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: low-level formatter for linux
On Wed, 05 Aug 2009 03:33:25 + g gel...@bellsouth.net wrote: Markus Kesaromous wrote: Is there a low-level HD formatter for linux? linux-google search low-level+format, will give 97k hits. mainly, for a truly oem *low-level format* you need an oem format program. they are available in dos format. And they don't do a low level format on anything but an ancient MFM (and sometimes RLL) drive. They might appear to but the drive isn't really doing it. Alan -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: low-level formatter for linux
In the bad old days, we used to do low lever format of a disk using a dos asm command and hand enter a set of instructions. I do not recall what those instructions were, and I am not certain they would work on a 500GB drive. Now that all I have is linux, and my HD has developed many bad blocks, I need to back it up and do low level formatting. So, I need a Linux based low level formatting tool. I suspect you need a new disk. What does the smart data for the drive say ? Writing zeroes over the whole drive should reallocate any dud sectors. You can also rewrite specific sector numbers with hdparm --write-sector However a drive generating a lot of bad blocks often means the drive is ill and likely to fail again. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: low-level formatter for linux
Markus Kesaromous writes: Self-test execution status: ( 120)The previous self-test completed having the read element of the test failed. Your drive is a doorstop. It's time to recycle it. pgpMvgGrXoKh3.pgp Description: PGP signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: low-level formatter for linux
Markus Kesaromous wrote: Why I need to do low level formatting? Disk monitor is reporting 93 uncorrectable sector errors. Time to download the manufacturer's diagnostic disk, or the Ultiate Boot CD ( http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/ ) and run their tests on the drive. As other have stated, you can not run a low level format on modern drives. The test program will usually produce an error code you can use to get an RMA for the drive if it is under warranty. While not completely true, it requires plugging into the diagnostic connector on the drive, and sending the correct commands. Not something even most advanced user are normally equipped to do. Mikkel -- Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with Ketchup! signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: low-level formatter for linux
Markus Kesaromous wrote: SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 10 Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds: ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE UPDATED WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE 1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate 0x000f 108 078 006Pre-fail Always - 157925240 3 Spin_Up_Time0x0003 096 096 000Pre-fail Always - 0 4 Start_Stop_Count0x0032 100 100 020Old_age Always - 670 5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 100 100 036Pre-fail Always - 1 7 Seek_Error_Rate 0x000f 087 060 030Pre-fail Always - 627490383 9 Power_On_Hours 0x0032 082 082 000Old_age Always - 16386 10 Spin_Retry_Count0x0013 100 100 097Pre-fail Always - 0 12 Power_Cycle_Count 0x0032 100 100 020Old_age Always - 767 187 Reported_Uncorrect 0x0032 001 001 000Old_age Always - 863 189 High_Fly_Writes 0x003a 100 100 000Old_age Always - 0 190 Airflow_Temperature_Cel 0x0022 061 039 045Old_age Always In_the_past 39 (0 2 41 29) 194 Temperature_Celsius 0x0022 039 061 000Old_age Always - 39 (0 14 0 0) 195 Hardware_ECC_Recovered 0x001a 060 045 000Old_age Always - 185506743 197 Current_Pending_Sector 0x0012 093 093 000Old_age Always - 157 198 Offline_Uncorrectable 0x0010 093 093 000Old_age Offline - 157 199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count0x003e 200 037 000Old_age Always - 366 200 Multi_Zone_Error_Rate 0x 100 253 000Old_age Offline - 0 202 TA_Increase_Count 0x0032 100 253 000Old_age Always - 0 Right now the drive has just one reallocated sector. Your problem is the 157 sectors that are pending reallocation. Bad sectors cannot be reallocated until the next time they are written. Simply writing zeros to the whole drive will accomplish that. (For anyone who wonders why a bad sector cannot be immediately reallocated, I suggest you think about that for a while, specifically about what data will be returned when that newly allocated, error-free sector is read. Remember, the contents of the original sector could not be determined.) As long as new bad sectors don't keep appearing, the drive could remain problem free for many years. But, at some time in the past the drive overheated quite severely. Maybe that was the cause of the current crop of bad sectors, maybe not, but severe overheating can seriously shorten a drive's life, so I'd either replace the drive or use it for something non-critical just on that basis. -- Bob Nichols NOSPAM is really part of my email address. Do NOT delete it. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: low-level formatter for linux
On Tue, 4 Aug 2009 20:34:04 -0700 Markus Kesaromous remotes...@live.com wrote: Sorry I did not clarify - By low level, I do not mean Filesystem creation. I mean it the level at which bad-block forwarding takes place (i.e. all blocks are tested for sanity, and the bad blocks are forwarded to good blocks. This in some cases may result in reduced total number of blocks, and thus might (emphasis on might) affect the disk geometry. You could look at man badblocks or man e2fsck They will do read or read and write scan of the disk and mark failed blocks as bad. e2fsck is the better way. Everyone else seems to think your drive is history, though, so maybe this is wasted effort. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
low-level formatter for linux
I canvassed the web looking for a linux util that will low-level format a hard drive, and found noting but dos and windows tools. Is there a low-level HD formatter for linux? Markus K. _ Windows Live™: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=PID23384::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:NF_BR_sync:082009 -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: low-level formatter for linux
On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 6:58 PM, Markus Kesaromousremotes...@live.com wrote: I canvassed the web looking for a linux util that will low-level format a hard drive, and found noting but dos and windows tools. Is there a low-level HD formatter for linux? Markus K. How low is low? mkfs will build a file system of a specified type, i.e. format a partition with a given file system. It is a command-line utility and so low level in my book, but maybe not in yours. HTH Peter -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: low-level formatter for linux
On 08/04/2009 10:13 PM, Peter Langfelder wrote: On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 6:58 PM, Markus Kesaromousremotes...@live.com wrote: I canvassed the web looking for a linux util that will low-level format a hard drive, and found noting but dos and windows tools. Is there a low-level HD formatter for linux? Markus K. How low is low? mkfs will build a file system of a specified type, i.e. format a partition with a given file system. It is a command-line utility and so low level in my book, but maybe not in yours. Peter, Historically, a low-level format refers to laying down the sectors and tracks on the disk. mkfs is a high level formatter, building a file system on top of the formatted tracks and sectors. Markus, Since pretty much the inception of IDE disk drives, all disks are low-level formatted at the factory, and low level formatting is not really a user function anymore, since the formatting of the drive is probably known to the microcode on the drive and any attempt to format it to some other format may break the drive. Most drive have the ability to detect bad sectors and automatically re-map them to unused sectors on the drive. When the supply of unused sectors is exhausted, the drive dies (ie, the bad sectors become uncorrectable errors and those sectors are no longer usable). Bad sectors are usually assumed to be faulty media that cannot be reformatted to become good again. It is not clear to me whether or not the firmware of modern disk drives actually tries to reformat bad sectors before remapping them to unused sectors. So, you either deal with the shrinking size of your disk, or you recover what you can from it, then throw it away and install a good one. What is it that you *think* a low-level formatting of the drive does? HTH Peter -- Kevin J. Cummings kjch...@rcn.com cummi...@kjchome.homeip.net cummi...@kjc386.framingham.ma.us Registered Linux User #1232 (http://counter.li.org) -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: low-level formatter for linux
Peter Langfelder wrote: How low is low? see; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disk_formatting#Low-level_formatting_.28LLF.29_of_hard_disks -- peace out. tc,hago. g . in a free world without fences, who needs gates. ** help microsoft stamp out piracy - give linux to a friend today. ** to mess up a linux box, you need to work at it. to mess up an ms windows box, you just need to *look* at it. ** learn linux: 'Rute User's Tutorial and Exposition' http://rute.2038bug.com/index.html 'The Linux Documentation Project' http://www.tldp.org/ 'LDP HOWTO-index' http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/HOWTO-INDEX/index.html 'HowtoForge' http://howtoforge.com/ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: low-level formatter for linux
Markus Kesaromous wrote: Is there a low-level HD formatter for linux? linux-google search low-level+format, will give 97k hits. mainly, for a truly oem *low-level format* you need an oem format program. they are available in dos format. you will get advice to use 'dd' to zero out sectors. you will find programs to do all sorts of security erasers. for all practical purposes of clearing up why you need 'llf', did you now have live-in girl friend and you want to be sure she does not find your pron? ;) your boss caught you with it on *his* computer? for practical purposes, girl friend included, using 'dd if=/dev/random of=/dev/sdn bs=65536' will removed any thing you need to worry about. for legal reasons, fbi, irs, boss, etc, log; http://www.linux-kurser.dk/secure_harddisk_eraser.html for a type of 'erase' programs available. there are many more, so you can look thru rest of 97k, or modify low-level+formatter to lessen. much fun to you. :) -- peace out. tc,hago. g . in a free world without fences, who needs gates. ** help microsoft stamp out piracy - give linux to a friend today. ** to mess up a linux box, you need to work at it. to mess up an ms windows box, you just need to *look* at it. ** learn linux: 'Rute User's Tutorial and Exposition' http://rute.2038bug.com/index.html 'The Linux Documentation Project' http://www.tldp.org/ 'LDP HOWTO-index' http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/HOWTO-INDEX/index.html 'HowtoForge' http://howtoforge.com/ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
RE: low-level formatter for linux
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 19:13:13 -0700 From: peter.langfel...@gmail.com To: fedora-list@redhat.com Subject: Re: low-level formatter for linux On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 6:58 PM, Markus Kesaromous wrote: I canvassed the web looking for a linux util that will low-level format a hard drive, and found noting but dos and windows tools. Is there a low-level HD formatter for linux? Markus K. How low is low? mkfs will build a file system of a specified type, i.e. format a partition with a given file system. It is a command-line utility and so low level in my book, but maybe not in yours. HTH Peter -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines Sorry I did not clarify - By low level, I do not mean Filesystem creation. I mean it the level at which bad-block forwarding takes place (i.e. all blocks are tested for sanity, and the bad blocks are forwarded to good blocks. This in some cases may result in reduced total number of blocks, and thus might (emphasis on might) affect the disk geometry. In the bad old days, we used to do low lever format of a disk using a dos asm command and hand enter a set of instructions. I do not recall what those instructions were, and I am not certain they would work on a 500GB drive. Now that all I have is linux, and my HD has developed many bad blocks, I need to back it up and do low level formatting. So, I need a Linux based low level formatting tool. Cheers, Markus K. _ Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for Hotmail®. http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=PID23391::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HYGN_express:082009 -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
RE: low-level formatter for linux
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 03:33:25 + From: gel...@bellsouth.net To: fedora-list@redhat.com Subject: Re: low-level formatter for linux Markus Kesaromous wrote: Is there a low-level HD formatter for linux? linux-google search low-level+format, will give 97k hits. mainly, for a truly oem *low-level format* you need an oem format program. they are available in dos format. you will get advice to use 'dd' to zero out sectors. you will find programs to do all sorts of security erasers. for all practical purposes of clearing up why you need 'llf', did you now have live-in girl friend and you want to be sure she does not find your pron? ;) your boss caught you with it on *his* computer? for practical purposes, girl friend included, using 'dd if=/dev/random of=/dev/sdn bs=65536' will removed any thing you need to worry about. for legal reasons, fbi, irs, boss, etc, log; http://www.linux-kurser.dk/secure_harddisk_eraser.html for a type of 'erase' programs available. there are many more, so you can look thru rest of 97k, or modify low-level+formatter to lessen. much fun to you. :) -- peace out. tc,hago. g . in a free world without fences, who needs gates. ** help microsoft stamp out piracy - give linux to a friend today. ** to mess up a linux box, you need to work at it. to mess up an ms windows box, you just need to *look* at it. ** learn linux: 'Rute User's Tutorial and Exposition' http://rute.2038bug.com/index.html 'The Linux Documentation Project' http://www.tldp.org/ 'LDP HOWTO-index' http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/HOWTO-INDEX/index.html 'HowtoForge' http://howtoforge.com/ Why I need to do low level formatting? Disk monitor is reporting 93 uncorrectable sector errors. Is that a good enough reason? :) PS: If I had something on the disk to hide from prying eyes, I would resort to a very simple solution: break open the drive (very easyli done), and place the platters on the fire grill for about 60 minutes. Ask a physics professor. See what he has to say about it :) _ Get free photo software from Windows Live http://www.windowslive.com/online/photos?ocid=PID23393::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:SI_PH_software:082009 -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: low-level formatter for linux
On 09-08-04 23:34:04, Markus Kesaromous wrote: Sorry I did not clarify - By low level, I do not mean Filesystem creation. I mean it the level at which bad-block forwarding takes place (i.e. all blocks are tested for sanity, and the bad blocks are forwarded to good blocks. This in some cases may result in reduced total number of blocks, and thus might (emphasis on might) affect the disk geometry. ... Now that all I have is linux, and my HD has developed many bad blocks, I need to back it up and do low level formatting. So, I need a Linux based low level formatting tool. The low-level formatters I have used are all floppy-based, mostly using some free version of DOS (FWIW). Find the drive manufacturer's utilities disk, copy it to a floppy (or whatever), and boot it. On the drives I've low-level formatted, the process eliminates sector remapping, but does introduce gaps in the good sectors. The capacity might be reduced, but mostly it just works into the spare blocks area, reducint it in size. If, after such a low-level format, you still accumulate bad blocks, you should give up on that disk. To reduce the amount of data loss as blocks go bad, use smartctl to enable Automatic Offline Data Collection. It will scan the disk every four hours, which gives the disk a good chance to catch blocks as they go bad but are still recoverable. -- TonyN.:' mailto:tonynel...@georgeanelson.com ' http://www.georgeanelson.com/ -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: low-level formatter for linux
On Tuesday 04 August 2009, Markus Kesaromous wrote: Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 03:33:25 + From: gel...@bellsouth.net To: fedora-list@redhat.com Subject: Re: low-level formatter for linux Markus Kesaromous wrote: Is there a low-level HD formatter for linux? linux-google search low-level+format, will give 97k hits. mainly, for a truly oem *low-level format* you need an oem format program. they are available in dos format. you will get advice to use 'dd' to zero out sectors. you will find programs to do all sorts of security erasers. for all practical purposes of clearing up why you need 'llf', did you now have live-in girl friend and you want to be sure she does not find your pron? ;) your boss caught you with it on *his* computer? for practical purposes, girl friend included, using 'dd if=/dev/random of=/dev/sdn bs=65536' will removed any thing you need to worry about. for legal reasons, fbi, irs, boss, etc, log; http://www.linux-kurser.dk/secure_harddisk_eraser.html for a type of 'erase' programs available. there are many more, so you can look thru rest of 97k, or modify low-level+formatter to lessen. much fun to you. :) -- peace out. tc,hago. g . in a free world without fences, who needs gates. ** help microsoft stamp out piracy - give linux to a friend today. ** to mess up a linux box, you need to work at it. to mess up an ms windows box, you just need to *look* at it. ** learn linux: 'Rute User's Tutorial and Exposition' http://rute.2038bug.com/index.html 'The Linux Documentation Project' http://www.tldp.org/ 'LDP HOWTO-index' http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/HOWTO-INDEX/index.html 'HowtoForge' http://howtoforge.com/ Why I need to do low level formatting? Disk monitor is reporting 93 uncorrectable sector errors. If that drive cannot correct them, it is already out of spare sectors and is using its input power for life support. But to be sure, please post the output of 'smartctl -a /dev/sdX' where X is the rest of that devices name, a,b,c,d,e etc. I'd retire it, before it falls over taking your data with it. Or are you running amanda? I do. And I don't worry too much, I can do a bare metal install on a fresh drive, fire up one of amanda's two recovery tools, and have my 99GB restored in about 3 hours, including the final reboot to put in my latest kernel. Is that a good enough reason? :) PS: If I had something on the disk to hide from prying eyes, I would resort to a very simple solution: break open the drive (very easyli done), and place the platters on the fire grill for about 60 minutes. Ask a physics professor. See what he has to say about it :) _ Get free photo software from Windows Live http://www.windowslive.com/online/photos?ocid=PID23393::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-U S:SI_PH_software:082009 -- Cheers, Gene There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them. https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp Truth is the most valuable thing we have -- so let us economize it. -- Mark Twain -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
RE: low-level formatter for linux
From: gene.hesk...@verizon.net To: fedora-list@redhat.com Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 00:33:27 -0400 Subject: Re: low-level formatter for linux On Tuesday 04 August 2009, Markus Kesaromous wrote: Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 03:33:25 + From: gel...@bellsouth.net To: fedora-list@redhat.com Subject: Re: low-level formatter for linux Markus Kesaromous wrote: Is there a low-level HD formatter for linux? linux-google search low-level+format, will give 97k hits. mainly, for a truly oem *low-level format* you need an oem format program. they are available in dos format. you will get advice to use 'dd' to zero out sectors. you will find programs to do all sorts of security erasers. for all practical purposes of clearing up why you need 'llf', did you now have live-in girl friend and you want to be sure she does not find your pron? ;) your boss caught you with it on *his* computer? for practical purposes, girl friend included, using 'dd if=/dev/random of=/dev/sdn bs=65536' will removed any thing you need to worry about. for legal reasons, fbi, irs, boss, etc, log; http://www.linux-kurser.dk/secure_harddisk_eraser.html for a type of 'erase' programs available. there are many more, so you can look thru rest of 97k, or modify low-level+formatter to lessen. much fun to you. :) -- peace out. tc,hago. g . in a free world without fences, who needs gates. ** help microsoft stamp out piracy - give linux to a friend today. ** to mess up a linux box, you need to work at it. to mess up an ms windows box, you just need to *look* at it. ** learn linux: 'Rute User's Tutorial and Exposition' http://rute.2038bug.com/index.html 'The Linux Documentation Project' http://www.tldp.org/ 'LDP HOWTO-index' http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/HOWTO-INDEX/index.html 'HowtoForge' http://howtoforge.com/ Why I need to do low level formatting? Disk monitor is reporting 93 uncorrectable sector errors. If that drive cannot correct them, it is already out of spare sectors and is using its input power for life support. But to be sure, please post the output of 'smartctl -a /dev/sdX' where X is the rest of that devices name, a,b,c,d,e etc. I'd retire it, before it falls over taking your data with it. Or are you running amanda? I do. And I don't worry too much, I can do a bare metal install on a fresh drive, fire up one of amanda's two recovery tools, and have my 99GB restored in about 3 hours, including the final reboot to put in my latest kernel. Is that a good enough reason? :) PS: If I had something on the disk to hide from prying eyes, I would resort to a very simple solution: break open the drive (very easyli done), and place the platters on the fire grill for about 60 minutes. Ask a physics professor. See what he has to say about it :) _ Get free photo software from Windows Live http://www.windowslive.com/online/photos?ocid=PID23393::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-U S:SI_PH_software:082009 -- Cheers, Gene There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them. Truth is the most valuable thing we have -- so let us economize it. -- Mark Twain -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines I don't know enough about amanda. Guess I have to read up on it. Here is the output: # smartctl -a /dev/sdb smartctl version 5.38 [i386-redhat-linux-gnu] Copyright (C) 2002-8 Bruce Allen Home page is http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net/ === START OF INFORMATION SECTION === Model Family: Seagate Barracuda 7200.9 family Device Model: ST3500641AS Serial Number:3PM07SFG Firmware Version: 3.AAD User Capacity:500,107,862,016 bytes Device is:In smartctl database [for details use: -P show] ATA Version is: 7 ATA Standard is: Exact ATA specification draft version not indicated Local Time is:Tue Aug 4 21:42:21 2009 PDT SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability. SMART support is: Enabled === START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION === SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED See vendor-specific Attribute list for marginal Attributes. General SMART Values: Offline data collection status: (0x82)Offline data collection activity was completed without error. Auto Offline Data Collection: Enabled. Self-test execution status: ( 120)The previous self-test completed having the read element of the test failed. Total time to complete Offline data collection: ( 430) seconds. Offline data collection capabilities
