Re: [Felvtalk] Declaw
You declawed your cat? I will send you some information about this. It is NOT a good thing to do. People don't realize what's involved when a cat is declawed. They think it's just a manicure, but it's actually amputation of the digit of each toe along with the nail. It's a very serious and excruciatingly painful surgery to inflict on cats and kittens. It is in fact ten different amputations! Because some veterinarians advocate it, to make extra $$$, people believe that there are no risks involved and think it's merely a simple procedure. It is NOT. Veterinarians who perform this surgery do not tell people that this surgery can cause all or a combination of all the following Personality changes, such as withdrawal, unpredictability biting (they now feel helpless, as biting is their only means of defense). The most common problem with declawed cats is urinating and defecating outside of the litter box. The reason is that it is extremely painful to step on litter after the surgery, and in many cases a cat will never use it's box again. Walk into any shelter and you'll see many declawed cats there who have been given up, due to one or more of the above reasons. Here's a perfect example: We know of a couple who, when expecting a baby, had their two adult cats declawed; what they got instead, was far more dangerous to a baby than scratching - unpredictable and serious biting! They had no choice but to have their cats of 6 years killed because no one in their right mind would adopt them. Cats need claws for many reasons During play her claws snag flying toys out of the air and hold them in place. A cat uses claws to scratch an itch, manipulate catnip mice, grip a narrow catwalk, hoist her body up to a high-up perch. Most important of all, claws are lifesavers, enabling a cat to climb to safety or thwart an attacker if she should get outside by accident. All this and much more is lost when a cat is declawed. Unlike routine recoveries, including recovery from neutering surgeries, which are fairly peaceful, declawing surgery results in excruciating pain. Cats huddle in the corner of the recovery cage, immobilized in a state of helplessness, overwhelmed with pain. Declawing is a major operation. The patient is first put under general anesthesia, as the pain would be torturous without it. A tourniquet is placed around the first paw to be declawed. The veterinarian then performs a series of ten amputations. Each amputation removes the claw and the bone into which it is firmly rooted. The supporting tendons and ligaments for each claw are severed. The surrounding soft tissue and flesh is cut off, and a veterinary technician bandages up kitty's paws to soak up the blood. Kitty is now declawed. The retractable claws that she would have used throughout her life for scratching, playing, walking, and self defense lie in a heap on the table, waiting to get thrown out with the trash. Declawing Sites www. stopdeclaw.com a powerful anti-declaw site. www.declawing.com -- veterinarian Christianne Schelling describes declawing in plain English. www.de-clawing.com www.declaw.com www.catscratching.com Declawing has been banned in over 20 other countries. I think the only reason it's still done here is vets make a lot of money from it, plus people are uninformed about how cruel and painful it is. On 10-03, Joslin Potter wrote: You make a good point Natialie, When we took Zoey in to be fixed and declawed we didn't realize that in a few months when he was dx with FeLV that we would be seeing them a lot more often then planned, I also recommened them to everyone and sometimes get discounts for refering friends. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Declaw
Also: http://www.*pawproject*.*org*/ http://www.pawproject.org/ Technically, it's like getting your fingers cut off at the first knuckle, except that all that cats have for fingers are their claws. So it's really like having all your entire fingers (and thumbs) cut off, so you can't pick up anything anymore---and also (even if you only declaw the front) all of your toes, so you can't walk without pain (including back pain). Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NQOzwj41Pc On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 3:45 AM, Lorrie felineres...@frontier.com wrote: You declawed your cat? I will send you some information about this. It is NOT a good thing to do. People don't realize what's involved when a cat is declawed. They think it's just a manicure, but it's actually amputation of the digit of each toe along with the nail. It's a very serious and excruciatingly painful surgery to inflict on cats and kittens. It is in fact ten different amputations! Because some veterinarians advocate it, to make extra $$$, people believe that there are no risks involved and think it's merely a simple procedure. It is NOT. Veterinarians who perform this surgery do not tell people that this surgery can cause all or a combination of all the following Personality changes, such as withdrawal, unpredictability biting (they now feel helpless, as biting is their only means of defense). The most common problem with declawed cats is urinating and defecating outside of the litter box. The reason is that it is extremely painful to step on litter after the surgery, and in many cases a cat will never use it's box again. Walk into any shelter and you'll see many declawed cats there who have been given up, due to one or more of the above reasons. Here's a perfect example: We know of a couple who, when expecting a baby, had their two adult cats declawed; what they got instead, was far more dangerous to a baby than scratching - unpredictable and serious biting! They had no choice but to have their cats of 6 years killed because no one in their right mind would adopt them. Cats need claws for many reasons During play her claws snag flying toys out of the air and hold them in place. A cat uses claws to scratch an itch, manipulate catnip mice, grip a narrow catwalk, hoist her body up to a high-up perch. Most important of all, claws are lifesavers, enabling a cat to climb to safety or thwart an attacker if she should get outside by accident. All this and much more is lost when a cat is declawed. Unlike routine recoveries, including recovery from neutering surgeries, which are fairly peaceful, declawing surgery results in excruciating pain. Cats huddle in the corner of the recovery cage, immobilized in a state of helplessness, overwhelmed with pain. Declawing is a major operation. The patient is first put under general anesthesia, as the pain would be torturous without it. A tourniquet is placed around the first paw to be declawed. The veterinarian then performs a series of ten amputations. Each amputation removes the claw and the bone into which it is firmly rooted. The supporting tendons and ligaments for each claw are severed. The surrounding soft tissue and flesh is cut off, and a veterinary technician bandages up kitty's paws to soak up the blood. Kitty is now declawed. The retractable claws that she would have used throughout her life for scratching, playing, walking, and self defense lie in a heap on the table, waiting to get thrown out with the trash. Declawing Sites www. stopdeclaw.com a powerful anti-declaw site. www.declawing.com -- veterinarian Christianne Schelling describes declawing in plain English. www.de-clawing.com www.declaw.com www.catscratching.com Declawing has been banned in over 20 other countries. I think the only reason it's still done here is vets make a lot of money from it, plus people are uninformed about how cruel and painful it is. On 10-03, Joslin Potter wrote: You make a good point Natialie, When we took Zoey in to be fixed and declawed we didn't realize that in a few months when he was dx with FeLV that we would be seeing them a lot more often then planned, I also recommened them to everyone and sometimes get discounts for refering friends. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal! If you can't adopt, then foster bottle baby shelter animal, to save their life. Contact your local pound for information. http://www.laanimalservices.com/volunteer_fostercare.htm If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and to free up cage space. Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by implementing the No Kill Equation:
Re: [Felvtalk] Declaw
I no longer declaw my cats, Zoey passed away a week ago, I no longer declaw my cats. From: Lorrie felineres...@frontier.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Thursday, October 4, 2012 7:45 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Declaw You declawed your cat? I will send you some information about this. It is NOT a good thing to do. People don't realize what's involved when a cat is declawed. They think it's just a manicure, but it's actually amputation of the digit of each toe along with the nail. It's a very serious and excruciatingly painful surgery to inflict on cats and kittens. It is in fact ten different amputations! Because some veterinarians advocate it, to make extra $$$, people believe that there are no risks involved and think it's merely a simple procedure. It is NOT. Veterinarians who perform this surgery do not tell people that this surgery can cause all or a combination of all the following Personality changes, such as withdrawal, unpredictability biting (they now feel helpless, as biting is their only means of defense). The most common problem with declawed cats is urinating and defecating outside of the litter box. The reason is that it is extremely painful to step on litter after the surgery, and in many cases a cat will never use it's box again. Walk into any shelter and you'll see many declawed cats there who have been given up, due to one or more of the above reasons. Here's a perfect example: We know of a couple who, when expecting a baby, had their two adult cats declawed; what they got instead, was far more dangerous to a baby than scratching - unpredictable and serious biting! They had no choice but to have their cats of 6 years killed because no one in their right mind would adopt them. Cats need claws for many reasons During play her claws snag flying toys out of the air and hold them in place. A cat uses claws to scratch an itch, manipulate catnip mice, grip a narrow catwalk, hoist her body up to a high-up perch. Most important of all, claws are lifesavers, enabling a cat to climb to safety or thwart an attacker if she should get outside by accident. All this and much more is lost when a cat is declawed. Unlike routine recoveries, including recovery from neutering surgeries, which are fairly peaceful, declawing surgery results in excruciating pain. Cats huddle in the corner of the recovery cage, immobilized in a state of helplessness, overwhelmed with pain. Declawing is a major operation. The patient is first put under general anesthesia, as the pain would be torturous without it. A tourniquet is placed around the first paw to be declawed. The veterinarian then performs a series of ten amputations. Each amputation removes the claw and the bone into which it is firmly rooted. The supporting tendons and ligaments for each claw are severed. The surrounding soft tissue and flesh is cut off, and a veterinary technician bandages up kitty's paws to soak up the blood. Kitty is now declawed. The retractable claws that she would have used throughout her life for scratching, playing, walking, and self defense lie in a heap on the table, waiting to get thrown out with the trash. Declawing Sites www. stopdeclaw.com a powerful anti-declaw site. http://www.declawing.com/ -- veterinarian Christianne Schelling describes declawing in plain English. http://www.de-clawing.com/ http://www.declaw.com/ http://www.catscratching.com/ Declawing has been banned in over 20 other countries. I think the only reason it's still done here is vets make a lot of money from it, plus people are uninformed about how cruel and painful it is. On 10-03, Joslin Potter wrote: You make a good point Natialie, When we took Zoey in to be fixed and declawed we didn't realize that in a few months when he was dx with FeLV that we would be seeing them a lot more often then planned, I also recommened them to everyone and sometimes get discounts for refering friends. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Declaw
thanks everyone for the information. i know it is wrong and i no longer do it to my animals, the last one i did was over 5 years ago and he has long sinced passed. I felt horrible once i had seen what they really do. Thanks for the reminding information. From: Kathryn Hargreaves khargrea...@gmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Thursday, October 4, 2012 8:45 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Declaw Also: http://www.pawproject.org/ Technically, it's like getting your fingers cut off at the first knuckle, except that all that cats have for fingers are their claws. So it's really like having all your entire fingers (and thumbs) cut off, so you can't pick up anything anymore---and also (even if you only declaw the front) all of your toes, so you can't walk without pain (including back pain). Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NQOzwj41Pc On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 3:45 AM, Lorrie felineres...@frontier.com wrote: You declawed your cat? I will send you some information about this. It is NOT a good thing to do. People don't realize what's involved when a cat is declawed. They think it's just a manicure, but it's actually amputation of the digit of each toe along with the nail. It's a very serious and excruciatingly painful surgery to inflict on cats and kittens. It is in fact ten different amputations! Because some veterinarians advocate it, to make extra $$$, people believe that there are no risks involved and think it's merely a simple procedure. It is NOT. Veterinarians who perform this surgery do not tell people that this surgery can cause all or a combination of all the following Personality changes, such as withdrawal, unpredictability biting (they now feel helpless, as biting is their only means of defense). The most common problem with declawed cats is urinating and defecating outside of the litter box. The reason is that it is extremely painful to step on litter after the surgery, and in many cases a cat will never use it's box again. Walk into any shelter and you'll see many declawed cats there who have been given up, due to one or more of the above reasons. Here's a perfect example: We know of a couple who, when expecting a baby, had their two adult cats declawed; what they got instead, was far more dangerous to a baby than scratching - unpredictable and serious biting! They had no choice but to have their cats of 6 years killed because no one in their right mind would adopt them. Cats need claws for many reasons During play her claws snag flying toys out of the air and hold them in place. A cat uses claws to scratch an itch, manipulate catnip mice, grip a narrow catwalk, hoist her body up to a high-up perch. Most important of all, claws are lifesavers, enabling a cat to climb to safety or thwart an attacker if she should get outside by accident. All this and much more is lost when a cat is declawed. Unlike routine recoveries, including recovery from neutering surgeries, which are fairly peaceful, declawing surgery results in excruciating pain. Cats huddle in the corner of the recovery cage, immobilized in a state of helplessness, overwhelmed with pain. Declawing is a major operation. The patient is first put under general anesthesia, as the pain would be torturous without it. A tourniquet is placed around the first paw to be declawed. The veterinarian then performs a series of ten amputations. Each amputation removes the claw and the bone into which it is firmly rooted. The supporting tendons and ligaments for each claw are severed. The surrounding soft tissue and flesh is cut off, and a veterinary technician bandages up kitty's paws to soak up the blood. Kitty is now declawed. The retractable claws that she would have used throughout her life for scratching, playing, walking, and self defense lie in a heap on the table, waiting to get thrown out with the trash. Declawing Sites www. stopdeclaw.com a powerful anti-declaw site. http://www.declawing.com/ -- veterinarian Christianne Schelling describes declawing in plain English. http://www.de-clawing.com/ http://www.declaw.com/ http://www.catscratching.com/ Declawing has been banned in over 20 other countries. I think the only reason it's still done here is vets make a lot of money from it, plus people are uninformed about how cruel and painful it is. On 10-03, Joslin Potter wrote: You make a good point Natialie, When we took Zoey in to be fixed and declawed we didn't realize that in a few months when he was dx with FeLV that we would be seeing them a lot more often then planned, I also recommened them to everyone and sometimes get discounts for refering friends. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal! If you
Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting
When I first joined the animal welfare movement, I was and still am an animal rights activist, vegan by ethics and choice. I was treated by some as if I were a terrorist, barely tolerated by them, feared by others, ignored by still others. Finally, one of the fearful people asked me what vegetarians eat. I ask back what did she think they ate and she said, Cabbage, carrots, lettuce, you know, vegetables. I told her that she had probably mistaken us for rabbits. Then I explained the bean protocol, the tofu and soy protocol to her. She wrinkled her nose and said that this can't be healthy. I wrinkled my nose right back at her and said that eating a dead animal isn't healthy either. Some years later, I met her again. She asked after my cats, found that I had as many as I originally had, then asked me if I were still a vegan. I told her I was and she said the she wasn't yet a vegan but she was a vegetarian because of all the horrid things she had heard about how meat was raised and processed. I think that if you are polite and courteous and patient with people and your belief is rational, logical and legitimate, you can eventually educate most people to see your way of thinking as acceptable and even worth trying especially if that belief gets enough press coverage and publicity. Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors too! From: Marcia marciabmar...@gmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, October 2, 2012 10:38 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting There are several of us on this list who do not eat meat and believe that animals have the right to a life apart from what humans think they're here for, i.e. simply to feed humans or be used as a sporting event. Sent from my iPhone On Oct 2, 2012, at 1:44 PM, Joslin Potter joslinir...@yahoo.com wrote: I agree with you, but what would happen if we didn't have a hunting season, do you think they would not still reproduce like they do now? To each their own, again, I'm just thankful for the life of a deer, and the people who do purchase linceses as this money is put back into the wild life. The funding from licenses and tags is used to insure a healthy population of wildlife in the states, including the DNR to enforce the rules... I take it you don't eat meat Natalie? From: Natalie at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, October 2, 2012 11:52 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting It may provide your family with meat, BUT, technically, hunting doesn’t really lower deer populations except in the immediate aftermath of a cull. Next year, there will be the same number of deer, if not more, because hunting encourages and spurs reproduction through compensatory rebound and because states manage deer for MSY (maximum sustained yield). I’m sure that you will notice that the population doesn’t really go down in the long run. I have made it my business to learn as much as I can about deer biology/reproduction. Natalie From:Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Joslin Potter Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 9:48 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting I'm thankful for deer season, it provides my family with meat, as well as keeping population under control. -Joslin From:Natalie at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, October 2, 2012 9:16 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting I monitor all the hunting accidents, it happens a lot, but unfortunately, innocent bystanders get hurt or killed, too - not to mention all the domestic animals, even farm animals. An Indiana hunter was killed on a youth day hunt, and two men with a 10-yr old kid with them, blamed it on him. Turned out, it wasn't. -Original Message- From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lorrie Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 7:01 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting I hate bow hunting or any hunting whatsoever. I'd really love to see a hunter with a bow stuck in him, and I'm quite delighted when I hear that a hunter has shot his hunting buddy by mistake. Lorrie On 10-01, dlg...@windstream.net wrote: Bow hunting has started in my area and I keep my cats close to home. Only Harley goes down the road, so HE stays inside. I keep hearing they are only animals as the excuse. Well, since we are suspossed to be descended from monkeys, we are animals so why can't I shoot them. They are only animals arn't they? ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Deciding-when-a-pet-has-suffered-enough
Janine, 1st thank you for helping all these cats and kittens in such a responsible manner. Here is the link to a chart I have found very helpful in explaining testing for FeLV http://www.felineleukemia.org/felvhlth.html As I understand it the IFA test requires the virus to be in the kittens bone marrow which takes time. Sometimes positive test are incorrect perhaps due to the handling of the test. Timing is very important. If left too long before reading they will give a positive result for a negative cat. Hope Bella tests negative next time Sharyl From: janine paton patonjan...@sbcglobal.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, October 1, 2012 6:43 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Deciding-when-a-pet-has-suffered-enough Hello, I joined this list years ago, and have now needed to rejoin. Trying to find testing protocol for FeLV and an explanation for it. I am with a rescue grp and we have just started trapping in a colony that had 30 kittens last year and none of them tested pos. We just took 9 kittens within a few days, and are close to having all of the adults neutered. There were a few newcomers - mostly toms. All kittens tested neg until Bella, who tested a weak pos with Elysa sent out to lab. Moms were all mixed up in this colony, everyone taking care of each other's kittens. A 2nd vet did IFA test a few days after Bella's pos results, which I understand is too soon, but having a hard time trying to explain this! My concern is that even if all the kittens tested neg except Bella, that doesn't mean in a few weeks the same kittens would not retest pos. My thinking is that more than one may have been exposed recently enough that the test might not be positive last wk, but may be tomorrow? Another vet thinks I am over thinking/reacting and we should just adopt out the ones that have tested neg right around the same time Bella tested positive. Looking for guidance - Thank you, Janine - Original Message From: dlg...@windstream.net dlg...@windstream.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Mon, October 1, 2012 6:15:00 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Deciding-when-a-pet-has-suffered-enough Bow hunting has started in my area and I keep my cats close to hoome. Only Harley goes down the road, so HE stays inside. I keep hearing they are only animals as the excuse. Well, since we are suspossed to be descended from monkeys, we are animals so why can't I shoot them. They are only animals arn't they? Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: I am so sorry to hear about the poor cat that was shot with an arrow - this is so typical this time of year when bowhunting begins for deer; dogs and cats are shot all the time.on purpose, because how could one think that a cat is a deer? Could also be some stupid neighborhood kid practicing on small animals! Ted Nugent, the creepy rock star macho moron bowhunter, started his 3-yr old kid practicing bowhunting on small barn animals on his farm.. Even when caught, these creeps get a mere slap on the wrist, if at all! I believe in karma, but it's not soon enough for me - I hope they rot in hell ASPA! Natalie From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lisa Conner Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2012 10:36 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Deciding-when-a-pet-has-suffered-enough Friends, We can only do our best everyday to help the victims without voices, either humans or animals. Kevorkian was arrested because it is against the law to end lives. Thanks goodness we can do what we can do, to end the suffering of a companion that is truly suffering (pet). I am a Christian and believe in heaven and hell and Karma. So, until we all die, that person who puts their pet down to travel the world or whatever, is a selfish person to begin with and I am sure it is not the first time that they were disrespectful to life. They will have to be judged and only the Lord will have that talk with them at the end of their life. I live in Florida and just heard about a cat in Riverview that was found (alive) with an arrow in its back! They are trying to find the person who did it. Trust me, I am sure if it was a little child or adult, the FBI would be involved. But because it was a cat, they are doing their best. At the end of every day, everything we do a group has a major impact on saving our furry friends. We can also voice our opinion to the government to change laws. God Bless America. Let's be positive here, we are in America and have the opportunity to change anything in our power as a group. Look in the Middle East, killing everyday! Thank you to all you Vet techs that try to intervene and help out where you can. however, you are right.. it is up to the VET to stand up for the healthy animals that they put to sleep.
Re: [Felvtalk] FW: FW: Bow hunting
During the years of concentration camps, very few babies were born to the women who were being tortured there, even though rape was rampant. It wasn't that they turned off their reproductive system because it was a legitimate rape but because below a certain nutritional level, the body of a woman can't sustain a pregnancy and miscarries. Deer and other wild animal populations regulate themselves during times when food is scarce and then grow during times when food is readily available. Feeding corn to deer in the winter assures all these darling sport hunters of a good stock of victims for their sport when deer season arrives again. If hunting and eating the victim is a good means of population control, maybe we should reconsider cannibalism. Humans are soon going to outgrow themselves. There are 8 billion of us infecting the planet at this time and if even half of those breed, we will have another 4 billion within a year or two.. Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors too! From: Natalie at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 8:14 AM Subject: [Felvtalk] FW: FW: Bow hunting Yes, it would make sense – if cats had not been domesticated so long ago, they would still be part of the natural ecosystem, be considered wildlife and probably still reproduce only once, instead of numerous times throughout the year, as they do now. It does happen to most wildlife, but obviously very differently, depending on the species. It’s too bad that this doesn’t apply to domesticated animals anymore. I doubt that companion animals will ever become extinct. My hope would be that every time someone wanted a cat or a dog, they would have to be on a waiting list – what’s happening right now, is obscene – the number of healthy, beautiful animals that are killed routinely in shelters and pounds is unbearable. I started the cat rescue 20 years ago, and I don’t think much has changed, other than other small groups in the area doing the same thing. People are still not spaying/neutering, still abandoning their pets, and many are still total jerks! Those of us who do rescue, are paying emotional, physically, and financially for others’ irresponsible behavior, because we care. From:Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Kathryn Hargreaves Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 3:32 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Bow hunting Does this happen with all species? I think the best thing to do is leave animals alone, too, but when feral cats bother people to the point where they are going to kill them, it's probably better to try to get numbers down. I prefer the methods some used with wolves, doing tubal ligations/vasectomies instead of messing with their hormones by taking out the sex organs. That said, we're real good at exterminating species, so I hope that doesn't happen with companion animals. On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 9:09 PM, GRAS g...@optonline.net wrote: It’s really interesting because when, and that’s rarely, that they reach a biological carrying capacity (or in a severe winter and no food), sperm counts go down and females, in real dire situations, will actually absorb their fetuses. Also, people mistake deer as starving in the winter because they may seem thin, ribs showing, it’s only that thyroxin (a calcium-rich hormone) regulates their metabolisms in cold weather….even iof a lot of food were available, they might not be able to absorb all the nutrition. The best thing is to leave them alone – thousands of years, and they have been able to regulate themselves until commercial hunting almost wiped them out at the end of the last century, and states had to start managing them to bring back the herds – then they found out what a big business it can be (hunting licenses, P-R Act, etc)- now they manage for MSY. From:Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Kathryn Hargreaves Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 10:12 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting Yes, I've heard from wildlife experts that the population of all species will level off at the carrying capacity (food, shelter) of the habitat, despite predation (of any sort). This is why if you want to reduce a species' population, you have to sterilize and return, so the sterilized ones take up some of that capacity. On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 4:27 PM, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: No, they wouldn’t reproduce the same way, that’s the whole point! According to research on reproduction, hunted herds twin only 14%, while hunted herds twin or even triple at 38%. It’s just nature’s way! In fact, predators are better hunters because they go for the sick and old animals, while hunters avoid them, thereby actually degrading the gene pool – healthier animals are not the
Re: [Felvtalk] Declaw
Lorrie, I agree with you 100%. My Mom has wanted to adopt several kittens I have had in the past and I have always told her NO because she declaws, then she complains that her cats aren't as sweet and social as they were when they were kittens and I say that's because you tortured and mutilated them, good going Mom. That is one position that I will NOT back down from and I don't care if it hurts my Mom's feelings because she should have never done it in the first place and for what? furniture? pppft. Don't get me wrong, I love my Mom but I don't agree with what she did. Declawing is cruel and inhumane :( Joslin, I am sorry for your loss of Zoey :( Edna Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 06:10:58 -0700 From: joslinir...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Declaw I no longer declaw my cats, Zoey passed away a week ago, I no longer declaw my cats. From: Lorrie felineres...@frontier.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Thursday, October 4, 2012 7:45 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Declaw You declawed your cat? I will send you some information about this. It is NOT a good thing to do. People don't realize what's involved when a cat is declawed. They think it's just a manicure, but it's actually amputation of the digit of each toe along with the nail. It's a very serious and excruciatingly painful surgery to inflict on cats and kittens. It is in fact ten different amputations! Because some veterinarians advocate it, to make extra $$$, people believe that there are no risks involved and think it's merely a simple procedure. It is NOT. Veterinarians who perform this surgery do not tell people that this surgery can cause all or a combination of all the following Personality changes, such as withdrawal, unpredictability biting (they now feel helpless, as biting is their only means of defense). The most common problem with declawed cats is urinating and defecating outside of the litter box. The reason is that it is extremely painful to step on litter after the surgery, and in many cases a cat will never use it's box again. Walk into any shelter and you'll see many declawed cats there who have been given up, due to one or more of the above reasons. Here's a perfect example: We know of a couple who, when expecting a baby, had their two adult cats declawed; what they got instead, was far more dangerous to a baby than scratching - unpredictable and serious biting! They had no choice but to have their cats of 6 years killed because no one in their right mind would adopt them. Cats need claws for many reasons During play her claws snag flying toys out of the air and hold them in place. A cat uses claws to scratch an itch, manipulate catnip mice, grip a narrow catwalk, hoist her body up to a high-up perch. Most important of all, claws are lifesavers, enabling a cat to climb to safety or thwart an attacker if she should get outside by accident. All this and much more is lost when a cat is declawed. Unlike routine recoveries, including recovery from neutering surgeries, which are fairly peaceful, declawing surgery results in excruciating pain. Cats huddle in the corner of the recovery cage, immobilized in a state of helplessness, overwhelmed with pain. Declawing is a major operation. The patient is first put under general anesthesia, as the pain would be torturous without it. A tourniquet is placed around the first paw to be declawed. The veterinarian then performs a series of ten amputations. Each amputation removes the claw and the bone into which it is firmly rooted. The supporting tendons and ligaments for each claw are severed. The surrounding soft tissue and flesh is cut off, and a veterinary technician bandages up kitty's paws to soak up the blood. Kitty is now declawed. The retractable claws that she would have used throughout her life for scratching, playing, walking, and self defense lie in a heap on the table, waiting to get thrown out with the trash. Declawing Sites www. stopdeclaw.com a powerful anti-declaw site. http://www.declawing.com/ -- veterinarian Christianne Schelling describes declawing in plain English. http://www.de-clawing.com/ http://www.declaw.com/ http://www.catscratching.com/ Declawing has been banned in over 20 other countries. I think the only reason it's still done here is vets make a lot of money from it, plus people are uninformed about how cruel and painful it is. On 10-03, Joslin Potter wrote: You make a good point Natialie, When we took Zoey in to be fixed and declawed we didn't realize that in a few months when he was dx with FeLV that we would be seeing them a lot more often then planned, I also recommened them to everyone and sometimes get discounts for refering friends. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] FW: Bow hunting
Tell me about being treated as a terrorist! It has become much better now, as far as the general population goes, however, AETA, that’s another wonderful thing…. (Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act of 2006, passed by only six members, under GWB, and the only one who voted against it was Kucinich!) – which can make any of us terrorists because of its broad range. I agree…two cat helper who work here have become vegetarian, and one is well on the way to being vegan. It was by example, and discussion. However, whenever the debate on hunting comes up, and I have many, I am immediately accused of eating meat and that it’s not any different than venison..when they find out that I do not eat any meat, they start accusing me of killing vegetables, that if that’s how I feel about killing, I shouldn’t kill them either. It’s just a distraction, of course. I am also asked what I eat, and believe me, we use a lot of beans of every kind, we don’t suffer from boredom nor do we give up on delicious food - yes, I cook a lot, and I love making up new dishes. I even started making my own soy milk, which is easy and better without all the additives of store-bought. From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lee Evans Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 9:54 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting When I first joined the animal welfare movement, I was and still am an animal rights activist, vegan by ethics and choice. I was treated by some as if I were a terrorist, barely tolerated by them, feared by others, ignored by still others. Finally, one of the fearful people asked me what vegetarians eat. I ask back what did she think they ate and she said, Cabbage, carrots, lettuce, you know, vegetables. I told her that she had probably mistaken us for rabbits. Then I explained the bean protocol, the tofu and soy protocol to her. She wrinkled her nose and said that this can't be healthy. I wrinkled my nose right back at her and said that eating a dead animal isn't healthy either. Some years later, I met her again. She asked after my cats, found that I had as many as I originally had, then asked me if I were still a vegan. I told her I was and she said the she wasn't yet a vegan but she was a vegetarian because of all the horrid things she had heard about how meat was raised and processed. I think that if you are polite and courteous and patient with people and your belief is rational, logical and legitimate, you can eventually educate most people to see your way of thinking as acceptable and even worth trying especially if that belief gets enough press coverage and publicity. Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors too! ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] FW: Declaw
Did your vet recommend it? I know that Bainfield Health, the veterinary Group with Petsmart, has a package deal on kitten health (DUH), that includes declawing! I wrote to them and got a really stupid letter back - I will post it sometime - just unbelievable! From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Joslin Potter Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 9:13 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Declaw thanks everyone for the information. i know it is wrong and i no longer do it to my animals, the last one i did was over 5 years ago and he has long sinced passed. I felt horrible once i had seen what they really do. Thanks for the reminding information. From: Kathryn Hargreaves khargrea...@gmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Thursday, October 4, 2012 8:45 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Declaw Also: http:// http://www.pawproject.org/ www.pawproject.org/ Technically, it's like getting your fingers cut off at the first knuckle, except that all that cats have for fingers are their claws. So it's really like having all your entire fingers (and thumbs) cut off, so you can't pick up anything anymore---and also (even if you only declaw the front) all of your toes, so you can't walk without pain (including back pain). Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NQOzwj41Pc On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 3:45 AM, Lorrie felineres...@frontier.com wrote: You declawed your cat? I will send you some information about this. It is NOT a good thing to do. People don't realize what's involved when a cat is declawed. They think it's just a manicure, but it's actually amputation of the digit of each toe along with the nail. It's a very serious and excruciatingly painful surgery to inflict on cats and kittens. It is in fact ten different amputations! Because some veterinarians advocate it, to make extra $$$, people believe that there are no risks involved and think it's merely a simple procedure. It is NOT. Veterinarians who perform this surgery do not tell people that this surgery can cause all or a combination of all the following Personality changes, such as withdrawal, unpredictability biting (they now feel helpless, as biting is their only means of defense). The most common problem with declawed cats is urinating and defecating outside of the litter box. The reason is that it is extremely painful to step on litter after the surgery, and in many cases a cat will never use it's box again. Walk into any shelter and you'll see many declawed cats there who have been given up, due to one or more of the above reasons. Here's a perfect example: We know of a couple who, when expecting a baby, had their two adult cats declawed; what they got instead, was far more dangerous to a baby than scratching - unpredictable and serious biting! They had no choice but to have their cats of 6 years killed because no one in their right mind would adopt them. Cats need claws for many reasons During play her claws snag flying toys out of the air and hold them in place. A cat uses claws to scratch an itch, manipulate catnip mice, grip a narrow catwalk, hoist her body up to a high-up perch. Most important of all, claws are lifesavers, enabling a cat to climb to safety or thwart an attacker if she should get outside by accident. All this and much more is lost when a cat is declawed. Unlike routine recoveries, including recovery from neutering surgeries, which are fairly peaceful, declawing surgery results in excruciating pain. Cats huddle in the corner of the recovery cage, immobilized in a state of helplessness, overwhelmed with pain. Declawing is a major operation. The patient is first put under general anesthesia, as the pain would be torturous without it. A tourniquet is placed around the first paw to be declawed. The veterinarian then performs a series of ten amputations. Each amputation removes the claw and the bone into which it is firmly rooted. The supporting tendons and ligaments for each claw are severed. The surrounding soft tissue and flesh is cut off, and a veterinary technician bandages up kitty's paws to soak up the blood. Kitty is now declawed. The retractable claws that she would have used throughout her life for scratching, playing, walking, and self defense lie in a heap on the table, waiting to get thrown out with the trash. Declawing Sites www. stopdeclaw.com http://stopdeclaw.com/ a powerful anti-declaw site. http://www.declawing.com/ -- veterinarian Christianne Schelling describes declawing in plain English. http://www.de-clawing.com/ http://www.declaw.com/ http://www.catscratching.com/ Declawing has been banned in over 20 other countries. I think the only reason it's still done here is vets make a lot of money from it, plus people are uninformed about how cruel and painful it is. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] FW: FW: Bow hunting
Natalie, The pounds/shelters have a higher profile than do rescuers. If they sincerely implement the No Kill Equation, they can save over 90% of their intake, including those animals brought in or dumped by the minority of the public that is irresponsible. Until they do so, however, they are not a resource for rescuers, but rather yet another burden on them (as they rely too heavily on rescuers to bail the animals, rather than marketing them themselves). There are still small wild cats in Africa. I wonder how often they go into heat. On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 5:14 AM, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: *Yes, it would make sense – if cats had not been domesticated so long ago, they would still be part of the natural ecosystem, be considered wildlife and probably still reproduce only once, instead of numerous times throughout the year, as they do now. It does happen to most wildlife, but obviously very differently, depending on the species. * *It’s too bad that this doesn’t apply to domesticated animals anymore. I doubt that companion animals will ever become extinct. My hope would be that every time someone wanted a cat or a dog, they would have to be on a waiting list – what’s happening right now, is obscene – the number of healthy, beautiful animals that are killed routinely in shelters and pounds is unbearable. I started the cat rescue 20 years ago, and I don’t think much has changed, other than other small groups in the area doing the same thing. People are still not spaying/neutering, still abandoning their pets, and many are still total jerks! Those of us who do rescue, are paying emotional, physically, and financially for others’ irresponsible behavior, because we care.* ** ** *From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.orgfelvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On Behalf Of *Kathryn Hargreaves *Sent:* Wednesday, October 03, 2012 3:32 AM *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Bow hunting ** ** Does this happen with all species? ** ** I think the best thing to do is leave animals alone, too, but when feral cats bother people to the point where they are going to kill them, it's probably better to try to get numbers down. I prefer the methods some used with wolves, doing tubal ligations/vasectomies instead of messing with their hormones by taking out the sex organs. That said, we're real good at exterminating species, so I hope that doesn't happen with companion animals. ** ** On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 9:09 PM, GRAS g...@optonline.net wrote: *It’s really interesting because when, and that’s rarely, that they reach a biological carrying capacity (or in a severe winter and no food), sperm counts go down and females, in real dire situations, will actually absorb their fetuses. Also, people mistake deer as starving in the winter because they may seem thin, ribs showing, it’s only that thyroxin (a calcium-rich hormone) regulates their metabolisms in cold weather….even iof a lot of food were available, they might not be able to absorb all the nutrition.** *** *The best thing is to leave them alone – thousands of years, and they have been able to regulate themselves until commercial hunting almost wiped them out at the end of the last century, and states had to start managing them to bring back the herds – then they found out what a big business it can be (hunting licenses, P-R Act, etc)- now they manage for MSY.* *From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.orgfelvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On Behalf Of *Kathryn Hargreaves *Sent:* Tuesday, October 02, 2012 10:12 PM *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting Yes, I've heard from wildlife experts that the population of all species will level off at the carrying capacity (food, shelter) of the habitat, despite predation (of any sort). This is why if you want to reduce a species' population, you have to sterilize and return, so the sterilized ones take up some of that capacity. On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 4:27 PM, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: *No, they wouldn’t reproduce the same way, that’s the whole point! According to research on reproduction, hunted herds twin only 14%, while hunted herds twin or even triple at 38%. It’s just nature’s way! In fact, predators are better hunters because they go for the sick and old animals, while hunters avoid them, thereby actually degrading the gene pool – healthier animals are not the result of hunting – that’s done at deer farms by mating the best with the best specimen, producing fantastic trophy animals.* *No, I do not eat any meat.* ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal! If you
[Felvtalk] President
Hey guys not to get off from subject butI was interested in what everyone thinks about the Presidential Canidates, is their a reason why one should choose one over the other? Obama pledges support for nearly every animal protection bill currently pending in Congress, and says he will work with executive agencies such as the U.S. Department of Agriculture to make their policies more humane, according to Global Philosophy. However Mitt Romeny has made no clear statements or policies on animal issues. Reports also show that Romney has received thousands in campaign donations from the HSUS. However, he has done a few things in his state for better laws in reference to animal cruilty. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] President
I think this topic should be off limits here. Terri - Original Message - From: Joslin Pottermailto:joslinir...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgmailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 10:49 AM Subject: [Felvtalk] President Hey guys not to get off from subject but I was interested in what everyone thinks about the Presidential Canidates, is their a reason why one should choose one over the other? Obama pledges support for nearly every animal protection bill currently pending in Congress, and says he will work with executive agencies such as the U.S. Department of Agriculture to make their policies more humane, according to Global Philosophy. However Mitt Romeny has made no clear statements or policies on animal issues. Reports also show that Romney has received thousands in campaign donations from the HSUS. However, he has done a few things in his state for better laws in reference to animal cruilty. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Bow hunting
The Jains eat only things that fall from the plants, so the plants don't get killed. After I read this, I quit eating root veggies. On the other hand, they do not believe in keeping pets, much along the lines of PeTA, except they don't kill them. Have you seen this book? It may be a key to helping transition more people away from eating meat: http://www.amazon.com/All-American-Vegan-Veganism-Rest/dp/0979074339/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8qid=1349362032sr=8-1keywords=american+vegan On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 6:36 AM, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: Tell me about being treated as a terrorist! It has become much better now, as far as the general population goes, however, AETA, that’s another wonderful thing…. (Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act of 2006, passed by only six members, under GWB, and the only one who voted against it was Kucinich!) – which can make any of us terrorists because of its broad range. I agree…two cat helper who work here have become vegetarian, and one is well on the way to being vegan. It was by example, and discussion. However, whenever the debate on hunting comes up, and I have many, I am immediately accused of eating meat and that it’s not any different than venison..when they find out that I do not eat any meat, they start accusing me of killing vegetables, that if that’s how I feel about killing, I shouldn’t kill them either. It’s just a distraction, of course. I am also asked what I eat, and believe me, we use a lot of beans of every kind, we don’t suffer from boredom nor do we give up on delicious food - yes, I cook a lot, and I love making up new dishes. I even started making my own soy milk, which is easy and better without all the additives of store-bought. *From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.orgfelvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On Behalf Of *Lee Evans *Sent:* Thursday, October 04, 2012 9:54 AM *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting ** ** When I first joined the animal welfare movement, I was and still am an animal rights activist, vegan by ethics and choice. I was treated by some as if I were a terrorist, barely tolerated by them, feared by others, ignored by still others. Finally, one of the fearful people asked me what vegetarians eat. I ask back what did she think they ate and she said, Cabbage, carrots, lettuce, you know, vegetables. I told her that she had probably mistaken us for rabbits. Then I explained the bean protocol, the tofu and soy protocol to her. She wrinkled her nose and said that this can't be healthy. I wrinkled my nose right back at her and said that eating a dead animal isn't healthy either. Some years later, I met her again. She asked after my cats, found that I had as many as I originally had, then asked me if I were still a vegan. I told her I was and she said the she wasn't yet a vegan but she was a vegetarian because of all the horrid things she had heard about how meat was raised and processed. I think that if you are polite and courteous and patient with people and your belief is rational, logical and legitimate, you can eventually educate most people to see your way of thinking as acceptable and even worth trying especially if that belief gets enough press coverage and publicity. ** ** *Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors too!* ** ** ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal! If you can't adopt, then foster bottle baby shelter animal, to save their life. Contact your local pound for information. http://www.laanimalservices.com/volunteer_fostercare.htm If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and to free up cage space. Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by implementing the No Kill Equation: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/ Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities: http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/ Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/ More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially http://vimeo.com/48445902 Local feral cat crisis? See Alley Cat Allies' for how to respond: http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537 ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Declaw
Thanks, it's okay. He had FeLV and we did everything we could to keep him alive, he lived over four years with the disease. I was so proud of him, and happy that we got a chance to have him in our family. From: Edna Taylor taylore...@msn.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Thursday, October 4, 2012 10:25 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Declaw Lorrie, I agree with you 100%. My Mom has wanted to adopt several kittens I have had in the past and I have always told her NO because she declaws, then she complains that her cats aren't as sweet and social as they were when they were kittens and I say that's because you tortured and mutilated them, good going Mom. That is one position that I will NOT back down from and I don't care if it hurts my Mom's feelings because she should have never done it in the first place and for what? furniture? pppft. Don't get me wrong, I love my Mom but I don't agree with what she did. Declawing is cruel and inhumane :( Joslin, I am sorry for your loss of Zoey :( Edna Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 06:10:58 -0700 From: joslinir...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Declaw I no longer declaw my cats, Zoey passed away a week ago, I no longer declaw my cats. From: Lorrie felineres...@frontier.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Thursday, October 4, 2012 7:45 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Declaw You declawed your cat? I will send you some information about this. It is NOT a good thing to do. People don't realize what's involved when a cat is declawed. They think it's just a manicure, but it's actually amputation of the digit of each toe along with the nail. It's a very serious and excruciatingly painful surgery to inflict on cats and kittens. It is in fact ten different amputations! Because some veterinarians advocate it, to make extra $$$, people believe that there are no risks involved and think it's merely a simple procedure. It is NOT. Veterinarians who perform this surgery do not tell people that this surgery can cause all or a combination of all the following Personality changes, such as withdrawal, unpredictability biting (they now feel helpless, as biting is their only means of defense). The most common problem with declawed cats is urinating and defecating outside of the litter box. The reason is that it is extremely painful to step on litter after the surgery, and in many cases a cat will never use it's box again. Walk into any shelter and you'll see many declawed cats there who have been given up, due to one or more of the above reasons. Here's a perfect example: We know of a couple who, when expecting a baby, had their two adult cats declawed; what they got instead, was far more dangerous to a baby than scratching - unpredictable and serious biting! They had no choice but to have their cats of 6 years killed because no one in their right mind would adopt them. Cats need claws for many reasons During play her claws snag flying toys out of the air and hold them in place. A cat uses claws to scratch an itch, manipulate catnip mice, grip a narrow catwalk, hoist her body up to a high-up perch. Most important of all, claws are lifesavers, enabling a cat to climb to safety or thwart an attacker if she should get outside by accident. All this and much more is lost when a cat is declawed. Unlike routine recoveries, including recovery from neutering surgeries, which are fairly peaceful, declawing surgery results in excruciating pain. Cats huddle in the corner of the recovery cage, immobilized in a state of helplessness, overwhelmed with pain. Declawing is a major operation. The patient is first put under general anesthesia, as the pain would be torturous without it. A tourniquet is placed around the first paw to be declawed. The veterinarian then performs a series of ten amputations. Each amputation removes the claw and the bone into which it is firmly rooted. The supporting tendons and ligaments for each claw are severed. The surrounding soft tissue and flesh is cut off, and a veterinary technician bandages up kitty's paws to soak up the blood. Kitty is now declawed. The retractable claws that she would have used throughout her life for scratching, playing, walking, and self defense lie in a heap on the table, waiting to get thrown out with the trash. Declawing Sites www. stopdeclaw.com a powerful anti-declaw site. http://www.declawing.com/ -- veterinarian Christianne Schelling describes declawing in plain English. http://www.de-clawing.com/ http://www.declaw.com/ http://www.catscratching.com/ Declawing has been banned in over 20 other countries. I think the only reason it's still done here is vets make a lot of money from it, plus people are uninformed about how cruel and painful it is. On 10-03, Joslin Potter wrote: You make a
Re: [Felvtalk] Declaw
Declawing can also result in litterbox issues Sent from my iPhone On Oct 4, 2012, at 10:25 AM, Edna Taylor taylore...@msn.com wrote: Lorrie, I agree with you 100%. My Mom has wanted to adopt several kittens I have had in the past and I have always told her NO because she declaws, then she complains that her cats aren't as sweet and social as they were when they were kittens and I say that's because you tortured and mutilated them, good going Mom. That is one position that I will NOT back down from and I don't care if it hurts my Mom's feelings because she should have never done it in the first place and for what? furniture? pppft. Don't get me wrong, I love my Mom but I don't agree with what she did. Declawing is cruel and inhumane :( Joslin, I am sorry for your loss of Zoey :( Edna Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 06:10:58 -0700 From: joslinir...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Declaw I no longer declaw my cats, Zoey passed away a week ago, I no longer declaw my cats. From: Lorrie felineres...@frontier.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Thursday, October 4, 2012 7:45 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Declaw You declawed your cat? I will send you some information about this. It is NOT a good thing to do. People don't realize what's involved when a cat is declawed. They think it's just a manicure, but it's actually amputation of the digit of each toe along with the nail. It's a very serious and excruciatingly painful surgery to inflict on cats and kittens. It is in fact ten different amputations! Because some veterinarians advocate it, to make extra $$$, people believe that there are no risks involved and think it's merely a simple procedure. It is NOT. Veterinarians who perform this surgery do not tell people that this surgery can cause all or a combination of all the following Personality changes, such as withdrawal, unpredictability biting (they now feel helpless, as biting is their only means of defense). The most common problem with declawed cats is urinating and defecating outside of the litter box. The reason is that it is extremely painful to step on litter after the surgery, and in many cases a cat will never use it's box again. Walk into any shelter and you'll see many declawed cats there who have been given up, due to one or more of the above reasons. Here's a perfect example: We know of a couple who, when expecting a baby, had their two adult cats declawed; what they got instead, was far more dangerous to a baby than scratching - unpredictable and serious biting! They had no choice but to have their cats of 6 years killed because no one in their right mind would adopt them. Cats need claws for many reasons During play her claws snag flying toys out of the air and hold them in place. A cat uses claws to scratch an itch, manipulate catnip mice, grip a narrow catwalk, hoist her body up to a high-up perch. Most important of all, claws are lifesavers, enabling a cat to climb to safety or thwart an attacker if she should get outside by accident. All this and much more is lost when a cat is declawed. Unlike routine recoveries, including recovery from neutering surgeries, which are fairly peaceful, declawing surgery results in excruciating pain. Cats huddle in the corner of the recovery cage, immobilized in a state of helplessness, overwhelmed with pain. Declawing is a major operation. The patient is first put under general anesthesia, as the pain would be torturous without it. A tourniquet is placed around the first paw to be declawed. The veterinarian then performs a series of ten amputations. Each amputation removes the claw and the bone into which it is firmly rooted. The supporting tendons and ligaments for each claw are severed. The surrounding soft tissue and flesh is cut off, and a veterinary technician bandages up kitty's paws to soak up the blood. Kitty is now declawed. The retractable claws that she would have used throughout her life for scratching, playing, walking, and self defense lie in a heap on the table, waiting to get thrown out with the trash. Declawing Sites www. stopdeclaw.coma powerful anti-declaw site. http://www.declawing.com/ -- veterinarian Christianne Schelling describes declawing in plain English. http://www.de-clawing.com/ http://www.declaw.com/ http://www.catscratching.com/ Declawing has been banned in over 20 other countries. I think the only reason it's still done here is vets make a lot of money from it, plus people are uninformed about how cruel and painful it is. On 10-03, Joslin Potter wrote: You make a good point Natialie, When we took Zoey in to be fixed and declawed we didn't realize that in a few months when he was dx with FeLV that we would be seeing them a lot more often then planned, I also recommened them to
Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Declaw
As a matter of fact I had set up an appointment with my vet for a fm cat we have and they offered it at a discount if i did it together. I'm going to be honest I don't see much of a difference from the declaw cat and the one that is not. As long as they have posts and one takes the time to let them know what they cannot do it i really don't see a need for it, and it is cruel. What I don't get is who started that trend, and why is it limited to cats? or do they do it to dogs too? From: Natalie at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Thursday, October 4, 2012 10:37 AM Subject: [Felvtalk] FW: Declaw Did your vet recommend it? I know that Bainfield Health, the veterinary Group with Petsmart, has a “package deal” on kitten health (DUH), that includes declawing! I wrote to them and got a really stupid letter back – I will post it sometime – just unbelievable! From:Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Joslin Potter Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 9:13 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Declaw thanks everyone for the information. i know it is wrong and i no longer do it to my animals, the last one i did was over 5 years ago and he has long sinced passed. I felt horrible once i had seen what they really do. Thanks for the reminding information. From:Kathryn Hargreaves khargrea...@gmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Thursday, October 4, 2012 8:45 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Declaw Also: http://www.pawproject.org/ Technically, it's like getting your fingers cut off at the first knuckle, except that all that cats have for fingers are their claws. So it's really like having all your entire fingers (and thumbs) cut off, so you can't pick up anything anymore---and also (even if you only declaw the front) all of your toes, so you can't walk without pain (including back pain). Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NQOzwj41Pc On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 3:45 AM, Lorrie felineres...@frontier.com wrote: You declawed your cat? I will send you some information about this. It is NOT a good thing to do. People don't realize what's involved when a cat is declawed. They think it's just a manicure, but it's actually amputation of the digit of each toe along with the nail. It's a very serious and excruciatingly painful surgery to inflict on cats and kittens. It is in fact ten different amputations! Because some veterinarians advocate it, to make extra $$$, people believe that there are no risks involved and think it's merely a simple procedure. It is NOT. Veterinarians who perform this surgery do not tell people that this surgery can cause all or a combination of all the following Personality changes, such as withdrawal, unpredictability biting (they now feel helpless, as biting is their only means of defense). The most common problem with declawed cats is urinating and defecating outside of the litter box. The reason is that it is extremely painful to step on litter after the surgery, and in many cases a cat will never use it's box again. Walk into any shelter and you'll see many declawed cats there who have been given up, due to one or more of the above reasons. Here's a perfect example: We know of a couple who, when expecting a baby, had their two adult cats declawed; what they got instead, was far more dangerous to a baby than scratching - unpredictable and serious biting! They had no choice but to have their cats of 6 years killed because no one in their right mind would adopt them. Cats need claws for many reasons During play her claws snag flying toys out of the air and hold them in place. A cat uses claws to scratch an itch, manipulate catnip mice, grip a narrow catwalk, hoist her body up to a high-up perch. Most important of all, claws are lifesavers, enabling a cat to climb to safety or thwart an attacker if she should get outside by accident. All this and much more is lost when a cat is declawed. Unlike routine recoveries, including recovery from neutering surgeries, which are fairly peaceful, declawing surgery results in excruciating pain. Cats huddle in the corner of the recovery cage, immobilized in a state of helplessness, overwhelmed with pain. Declawing is a major operation. The patient is first put under general anesthesia, as the pain would be torturous without it. A tourniquet is placed around the first paw to be declawed. The veterinarian then performs a series of ten amputations. Each amputation removes the claw and the bone into which it is firmly rooted. The supporting tendons and ligaments for each claw are severed. The surrounding soft tissue and flesh is cut off, and a veterinary technician bandages up kitty's paws to soak up the blood. Kitty is now declawed. The retractable claws that she would have used throughout her life for scratching, playing, walking, and self defense lie in a heap on the table, waiting
Re: [Felvtalk] President
Sorry Terri I didn't mean to offend anyone, I was just curious I'm so confused on who to vote for, and everyone is saying something different. From: Terri Brown siggies...@hotmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Thursday, October 4, 2012 10:51 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] President I think this topic should be off limits here. Terri - Original Message - From: Joslin Potter To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 10:49 AM Subject: [Felvtalk] President Hey guys not to get off from subject butI was interested in what everyone thinks about the Presidential Canidates, is their a reason why one should choose one over the other? Obama pledges support for nearly every animal protection bill currently pending in Congress, and says he will work with executive agencies such as the U.S. Department of Agriculture to make their policies more humane, according to Global Philosophy. However Mitt Romeny has made no clear statements or policies on animal issues. Reports also show that Romney has received thousands in campaign donations from the HSUS. However, he has done a few things in his state for better laws in reference to animal cruilty. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Bow hunting
Fruitarians – fruit fall off when ripe, eat only raw foods. I eat root vegetables, too much nutrition in them not to, especially beets – I couldn’t live without them. There are actually people who live on energy (Hunzas) – breatherians! Yes, I’ve heard of the book! Good idea – it’s really frustrating when really good friends continue to eat meat, and order horrible things like veal when you go out with them, and then have the nerve to ask, you wanna taste it (even worse, forgetting that we haven’t eaten meat for almost 30 years?) One good fiend never orders meat when we go out….. From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Kathryn Hargreaves Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 10:52 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Bow hunting The Jains eat only things that fall from the plants, so the plants don't get killed. After I read this, I quit eating root veggies. On the other hand, they do not believe in keeping pets, much along the lines of PeTA, except they don't kill them. Have you seen this book? It may be a key to helping transition more people away from eating meat: http://www.amazon.com/All-American-Vegan-Veganism-Rest/dp/0979074339/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8 http://www.amazon.com/All-American-Vegan-Veganism-Rest/dp/0979074339/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8qid=1349362032sr=8-1keywords=american+vegan qid=1349362032sr=8-1keywords=american+vegan On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 6:36 AM, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: Tell me about being treated as a terrorist! It has become much better now, as far as the general population goes, however, AETA, that’s another wonderful thing…. (Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act of 2006, passed by only six members, under GWB, and the only one who voted against it was Kucinich!) – which can make any of us terrorists because of its broad range. I agree…two cat helper who work here have become vegetarian, and one is well on the way to being vegan. It was by example, and discussion. However, whenever the debate on hunting comes up, and I have many, I am immediately accused of eating meat and that it’s not any different than venison..when they find out that I do not eat any meat, they start accusing me of killing vegetables, that if that’s how I feel about killing, I shouldn’t kill them either. It’s just a distraction, of course. I am also asked what I eat, and believe me, we use a lot of beans of every kind, we don’t suffer from boredom nor do we give up on delicious food - yes, I cook a lot, and I love making up new dishes. I even started making my own soy milk, which is easy and better without all the additives of store-bought. From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lee Evans Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 9:54 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting When I first joined the animal welfare movement, I was and still am an animal rights activist, vegan by ethics and choice. I was treated by some as if I were a terrorist, barely tolerated by them, feared by others, ignored by still others. Finally, one of the fearful people asked me what vegetarians eat. I ask back what did she think they ate and she said, Cabbage, carrots, lettuce, you know, vegetables. I told her that she had probably mistaken us for rabbits. Then I explained the bean protocol, the tofu and soy protocol to her. She wrinkled her nose and said that this can't be healthy. I wrinkled my nose right back at her and said that eating a dead animal isn't healthy either. Some years later, I met her again. She asked after my cats, found that I had as many as I originally had, then asked me if I were still a vegan. I told her I was and she said the she wasn't yet a vegan but she was a vegetarian because of all the horrid things she had heard about how meat was raised and processed. I think that if you are polite and courteous and patient with people and your belief is rational, logical and legitimate, you can eventually educate most people to see your way of thinking as acceptable and even worth trying especially if that belief gets enough press coverage and publicity. Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors too! ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal! If you can't adopt, then foster bottle baby shelter animal, to save their life. Contact your local pound for information. If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and to free up cage space. Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by implementing the No Kill Equation: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/
Re: [Felvtalk] President
I just think that there are too many varied opinions to discuss politics here. That's all. There is a risk of causing offense -- we are all so very different people, and not all of us believe the same things. I think that the best thing to do is to read both candidate's platform. Decide which one best reflects your own personal beliefs and then vote for that person. Off my soapbox now. T - Original Message - From: Joslin Pottermailto:joslinir...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgmailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 10:59 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] President Sorry Terri I didn't mean to offend anyone, I was just curious I'm so confused on who to vote for, and everyone is saying something different. From: Terri Brown siggies...@hotmail.commailto:siggies...@hotmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgmailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Thursday, October 4, 2012 10:51 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] President I think this topic should be off limits here. Terri - Original Message - From: Joslin Pottermailto:joslinir...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgmailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 10:49 AM Subject: [Felvtalk] President Hey guys not to get off from subject but I was interested in what everyone thinks about the Presidential Canidates, is their a reason why one should choose one over the other? Obama pledges support for nearly every animal protection bill currently pending in Congress, and says he will work with executive agencies such as the U.S. Department of Agriculture to make their policies more humane, according to Global Philosophy. However Mitt Romeny has made no clear statements or policies on animal issues. Reports also show that Romney has received thousands in campaign donations from the HSUS. However, he has done a few things in his state for better laws in reference to animal cruilty. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgmailto:Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.orghttp://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Bow hunting
Not sure I could make my own soy milk. I don't much like milk with cat fur in it. I have almost 40 cats here at any given time, mostly elderly or socially or physically handicapped and I can't keep them off counters. My house was not well organized due to a little mistake in planning. Actually big mistake in planning when I moved in so I will, at some future date have to readjust and then maybe cooking and cleaning will be a whole lot easier but right now I'm concentrating on keeping my head above the financial waters. Hey I forgot about the AETA that good ole G Dubya passed. Just talk against anything in the food industry and you've had it. Fortunately, it hasn't been enforced under Pres. Obama but Romney, should we have the misfortune of 4 years of him will be able to fill the prisons with people who won't eat fried chicken. Sigh. Is this a wonderful country or what! Incidentally I supported Kucinich when he made his short run for President. Angels from Heaven are rarely elected. He's a wonderful, thoughtful, intelligent and logical man. I actually think it's more humane, if someone is a good shot, to kill a deer then what is done to the bovine population in factory farming but I don't feel that we need to eat animals. We are omnivores and have a choice. Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors too! From: Natalie at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Thursday, October 4, 2012 9:36 AM Subject: [Felvtalk] FW: Bow hunting Tell me about being treated as a terrorist! It has become much better now, as far as the general population goes, however, AETA, that’s another wonderful thing…. (Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act of 2006, passed by only six members, under GWB, and the only one who voted against it was Kucinich!) – which can make any of us terrorists because of its broad range. I agree…two cat helper who work here have become vegetarian, and one is well on the way to being vegan. It was by example, and discussion. However, whenever the debate on hunting comes up, and I have many, I am immediately accused of eating meat and that it’s not any different than venison..when they find out that I do not eat any meat, they start accusing me of killing vegetables, that if that’s how I feel about killing, I shouldn’t kill them either. It’s just a distraction, of course. I am also asked what I eat, and believe me, we use a lot of beans of every kind, we don’t suffer from boredom nor do we give up on delicious food - yes, I cook a lot, and I love making up new dishes. I even started making my own soy milk, which is easy and better without all the additives of store-bought. From:Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lee Evans Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 9:54 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting When I first joined the animal welfare movement, I was and still am an animal rights activist, vegan by ethics and choice. I was treated by some as if I were a terrorist, barely tolerated by them, feared by others, ignored by still others. Finally, one of the fearful people asked me what vegetarians eat. I ask back what did she think they ate and she said, Cabbage, carrots, lettuce, you know, vegetables. I told her that she had probably mistaken us for rabbits. Then I explained the bean protocol, the tofu and soy protocol to her. She wrinkled her nose and said that this can't be healthy. I wrinkled my nose right back at her and said that eating a dead animal isn't healthy either. Some years later, I met her again. She asked after my cats, found that I had as many as I originally had, then asked me if I were still a vegan. I told her I was and she said the she wasn't yet a vegan but she was a vegetarian because of all the horrid things she had heard about how meat was raised and processed. I think that if you are polite and courteous and patient with people and your belief is rational, logical and legitimate, you can eventually educate most people to see your way of thinking as acceptable and even worth trying especially if that belief gets enough press coverage and publicity. Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors too! ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] Bow Hunting
Thursday, October 4, 2012 10:53 AMI get the same response from hostile people. Trees and vegetables are living things so you can't eat that either. Well, I will never be seen munching on a tree. I'm not a woodpecker but my idea is that I never eat anything that had a face or could move on feet, claws, feelers, or any way else. Most vegetables (except politicians) are meant to be eaten. So are fruits. When I was growing vegetables, I would allow a certain number of them to go to seed, to fulfill their need to propagate. The rest I would eat. Humans have a choice. Carnivorous species such as cats, lions, birds of prey don't have a choice so I wouldn't expect them to be made into vegetarians. Unfortunately, here comes the problem. If we all stop eating animals, then we won't kill cows, sheep, pigs and the cats won't have meat in their cat food. But here's the solution. They rarely have much meat in the cat food anyway. The first ingredient in most store products is corn meal. I assume that we could produce a balanced cat food with enough Taurine and other ingredients to satisfy physical needs of a carnivore like a cat if everyone in the world became vegetarian. However, thinking that everyone will some day become vegetarian is rather unrealistic, like those people who think that if we spay and neuter outside cats, colony cats, etc. we will some day not have any more cats and dogs on Earth. Actually, this happened in one city. They picked up all the cats and killed them at the city animal pound. Altogether, 2000 cats were destroyed. It was a small city. Everyone rejoiced. The outside roaming cat population was gone! Several months later, the outside roaming rat and mouse population increased to alarming levels and the city had to import a few hundred cats from surrounding cities to get things back under control. Stupid ideas abound. Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors too!___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] FW: FW: Bow hunting
Lee, my cat population beats yours! There’s no cat fur in the milk I make – see all the soy milk makers that are available: http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images?_adv_prop=image http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images?_adv_prop=imagefr=goodsearch-yhsifva=Soy+milk+maker fr=goodsearch-yhsifva=Soy+milk+maker The one I have is super easy, too – not touched by human hands or cat paws! From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lee Evans Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 11:20 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Bow hunting Not sure I could make my own soy milk. I don't much like milk with cat fur in it. I have almost 40 cats here at any given time, mostly elderly or socially or physically handicapped and I can't keep them off counters. My house was not well organized due to a little mistake in planning. Actually big mistake in planning when I moved in so I will, at some future date have to readjust and then maybe cooking and cleaning will be a whole lot easier but right now I'm concentrating on keeping my head above the financial waters. Hey I forgot about the AETA that good ole G Dubya passed. Just talk against anything in the food industry and you've had it. Fortunately, it hasn't been enforced under Pres. Obama but Romney, should we have the misfortune of 4 years of him will be able to fill the prisons with people who won't eat fried chicken. Sigh. Is this a wonderful country or what! Incidentally I supported Kucinich when he made his short run for President. Angels from Heaven are rarely elected. He's a wonderful, thoughtful, intelligent and logical man. I actually think it's more humane, if someone is a good shot, to kill a deer then what is done to the bovine population in factory farming but I don't feel that we need to eat animals. We are omnivores and have a choice. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] President
Why is that? I believe that people can have different opinions yet still be friends and get along and discuss their differences nicely. I am liberal in some things but conservative in others, I do not vote based on party affiliation, I vote based on what that one particular candidate has to offer. Sometimes I vote Democrat, sometimes I vote Republican, it all depends on the issues at hand. From: siggies...@hotmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 10:51:25 -0400 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] President I think this topic should be off limits here. Terri - Original Message - From: Joslin Potter To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 10:49 AM Subject: [Felvtalk] President Hey guys not to get off from subject but I was interested in what everyone thinks about the Presidential Canidates, is their a reason why one should choose one over the other? Obama pledges support for nearly every animal protection bill currently pending in Congress, and says he will work with executive agencies such as the U.S. Department of Agriculture to make their policies more humane, according to Global Philosophy. However Mitt Romeny has made no clear statements or policies on animal issues. Reports also show that Romney has received thousands in campaign donations from the HSUS. However, he has done a few things in his state for better laws in reference to animal cruilty. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] President
I've had family members BASH me for my beliefs. So I prefer not to discuss politics, especially with people who don't really know me. T - Original Message - From: Edna Taylormailto:taylore...@msn.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgmailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 12:21 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] President Why is that? I believe that people can have different opinions yet still be friends and get along and discuss their differences nicely. I am liberal in some things but conservative in others, I do not vote based on party affiliation, I vote based on what that one particular candidate has to offer. Sometimes I vote Democrat, sometimes I vote Republican, it all depends on the issues at hand. -- From: siggies...@hotmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 10:51:25 -0400 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] President I think this topic should be off limits here. Terri - Original Message - From: Joslin Pottermailto:joslinir...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgmailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 10:49 AM Subject: [Felvtalk] President Hey guys not to get off from subject but I was interested in what everyone thinks about the Presidential Canidates, is their a reason why one should choose one over the other? Obama pledges support for nearly every animal protection bill currently pending in Congress, and says he will work with executive agencies such as the U.S. Department of Agriculture to make their policies more humane, according to Global Philosophy. However Mitt Romeny has made no clear statements or policies on animal issues. Reports also show that Romney has received thousands in campaign donations from the HSUS. However, he has done a few things in his state for better laws in reference to animal cruilty. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] President
I'm sorry to hear that, I've been taking it from people on facebook as I am just trying to understand what each of them is for. For me it's healthcare, that is what intrests me the most however, when it comes to people like Mike Vick, there need to be better laws put into place, i just wondered how everyone else felt, no judgement from me. Like i told a friend, we hall have and know something someone else might not. From: Terri Brown siggies...@hotmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Thursday, October 4, 2012 12:24 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] President I've had family members BASH me for my beliefs. So I prefer not to discuss politics, especially with people who don't really know me. T - Original Message - From: Edna Taylor To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 12:21 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] President Why is that? I believe that people can have different opinions yet still be friends and get along and discuss their differences nicely. I am liberal in some things but conservative in others, I do not vote based on party affiliation, I vote based on what that one particular candidate has to offer. Sometimes I vote Democrat, sometimes I vote Republican, it all depends on the issues at hand. From: siggies...@hotmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 10:51:25 -0400 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] President I think this topic should be off limits here. Terri - Original Message - From: Joslin Potter To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 10:49 AM Subject: [Felvtalk] President Hey guys not to get off from subject but I was interested in what everyone thinks about the Presidential Canidates, is their a reason why one should choose one over the other? Obama pledges support for nearly every animal protection bill currently pending in Congress, and says he will work with executive agencies such as the U.S. Department of Agriculture to make their policies more humane, according to Global Philosophy. However Mitt Romeny has made no clear statements or policies on animal issues. Reports also show that Romney has received thousands in campaign donations from the HSUS. However, he has done a few things in his state for better laws in reference to animal cruilty. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] President
True enough. - Original Message - From: Edna Taylormailto:taylore...@msn.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgmailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 12:27 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] President I would never bash someone for their beliefs because they are YOUR beliefs and I respect that. Us cat people have to stick together whether we agree on candidates or not because most of the world thinks we are crazy anyway :) -- From: siggies...@hotmail.commailto:siggies...@hotmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgmailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 12:24:44 -0400 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] President I've had family members BASH me for my beliefs. So I prefer not to discuss politics, especially with people who don't really know me. T - Original Message - From: Edna Taylormailto:taylore...@msn.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgmailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 12:21 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] President Why is that? I believe that people can have different opinions yet still be friends and get along and discuss their differences nicely. I am liberal in some things but conservative in others, I do not vote based on party affiliation, I vote based on what that one particular candidate has to offer. Sometimes I vote Democrat, sometimes I vote Republican, it all depends on the issues at hand. From: siggies...@hotmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 10:51:25 -0400 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] President I think this topic should be off limits here. Terri - Original Message - From: Joslin Pottermailto:joslinir...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgmailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 10:49 AM Subject: [Felvtalk] President Hey guys not to get off from subject but I was interested in what everyone thinks about the Presidential Canidates, is their a reason why one should choose one over the other? Obama pledges support for nearly every animal protection bill currently pending in Congress, and says he will work with executive agencies such as the U.S. Department of Agriculture to make their policies more humane, according to Global Philosophy. However Mitt Romeny has made no clear statements or policies on animal issues. Reports also show that Romney has received thousands in campaign donations from the HSUS. However, he has done a few things in his state for better laws in reference to animal cruilty. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] President
I agree. I know that we are all from different states and backgrounds, that is why i am curious i know what it is like hear in Michigan... I would never judge anyone... From: Edna Taylor taylore...@msn.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Thursday, October 4, 2012 12:27 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] President I would never bash someone for their beliefs because they are YOUR beliefs and I respect that. Us cat people have to stick together whether we agree on candidates or not because most of the world thinks we are crazy anyway :) From: siggies...@hotmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 12:24:44 -0400 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] President I've had family members BASH me for my beliefs. So I prefer not to discuss politics, especially with people who don't really know me. T - Original Message - From: Edna Taylor To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 12:21 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] President Why is that? I believe that people can have different opinions yet still be friends and get along and discuss their differences nicely. I am liberal in some things but conservative in others, I do not vote based on party affiliation, I vote based on what that one particular candidate has to offer. Sometimes I vote Democrat, sometimes I vote Republican, it all depends on the issues at hand. From: siggies...@hotmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 10:51:25 -0400 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] President I think this topic should be off limits here. Terri - Original Message - From: Joslin Potter To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 10:49 AM Subject: [Felvtalk] President Hey guys not to get off from subject but I was interested in what everyone thinks about the Presidential Canidates, is their a reason why one should choose one over the other? Obama pledges support for nearly every animal protection bill currently pending in Congress, and says he will work with executive agencies such as the U.S. Department of Agriculture to make their policies more humane, according to Global Philosophy. However Mitt Romeny has made no clear statements or policies on animal issues. Reports also show that Romney has received thousands in campaign donations from the HSUS. However, he has done a few things in his state for better laws in reference to animal cruilty. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] President
Thanks for sharing that with us because I have wondered how someone in the healthcare industry felt about it. Speaking from the perspective of someone whose husband lost his job 3 days before Christmas in 2008 and all of the promises made by the current administration to help with mortgages, healthcare, etc., I'm not seeing it, nor were we helped in any size, shape or fashion. With regards to healthcare, we were told that because I had a full time job, I could (in a nutshell) s*ck it up and pay out an additional $500 a month to cover my husband and his son on my company's insurance plan until he found a job. We were also told that we had too much equity in our home so we didn't qualify for any mortgage assistance and in the end, I simply borrowed from his and my 401K and we just made ends meet until 15 months later he found full time employment. So, who is the better candidate? I really don't know :( Oh and to keep on track with kitty discussions for this group and speaking of FeLuk, one of our kitties that we thought was feral but ended up not being feral, so we brought her inside was diagnosed with a rapidly advancing cancer a few weeks ago and she is only about 2-3 years old. The doctor said that the type of cancer she has indicates that she was exposed to FeLuk as a kitten but managed to shed the virus since she does not have it. Unfortunately, it did its damage anyway :( SuzieQ has maybe a month to live so we are making her comfortable and loving on her until she lets us know that she is ready to cross over :( From: siggies...@hotmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 12:33:27 -0400 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] President Well, I have a different take on the whole healthcare thing because I work for a health insurance company. I understand how the business works. That being said, there are good things about the Obamacare, but there are some things that are NOT. So I disagree that it should stand as it is. It needs to be replaced. My opinion. I cannot speak on behalf of my employer. Terri - Original Message - From: Joslin Potter To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 12:29 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] President I'm sorry to hear that, I've been taking it from people on facebook as I am just trying to understand what each of them is for. For me it's healthcare, that is what intrests me the most however, when it comes to people like Mike Vick, there need to be better laws put into place, i just wondered how everyone else felt, no judgement from me. Like i told a friend, we hall have and know something someone else might not. From: Terri Brown siggies...@hotmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Thursday, October 4, 2012 12:24 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] President I've had family members BASH me for my beliefs. So I prefer not to discuss politics, especially with people who don't really know me. T - Original Message - From: Edna Taylor To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 12:21 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] President Why is that? I believe that people can have different opinions yet still be friends and get along and discuss their differences nicely. I am liberal in some things but conservative in others, I do not vote based on party affiliation, I vote based on what that one particular candidate has to offer. Sometimes I vote Democrat, sometimes I vote Republican, it all depends on the issues at hand. From: siggies...@hotmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 10:51:25 -0400 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] President I think this topic should be off limits here. Terri - Original Message - From: Joslin Potter To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 10:49 AM Subject: [Felvtalk] President Hey guys not to get off from subject but I was interested in what everyone thinks about the Presidential Canidates, is their a reason why one should choose one over the other? Obama pledges support for nearly every animal protection bill currently pending in Congress, and says he will work with executive agencies such as the U.S. Department of Agriculture to make their policies more humane, according to Global Philosophy. However Mitt Romeny has made no clear statements or policies on animal issues. Reports also show that Romney has received thousands in campaign donations from the HSUS. However, he has done a few things in his state for better laws in reference to animal cruilty.
Re: [Felvtalk] Bow Hunting
Stupid ideas from stupid people! Sorry, I hate to sound so judgemental, but seriously? Killed all the cats? That makes me sick. Sent from my iPad that my most awesome kids surprised me with, Christmas 2010. On Oct 4, 2012, at 10:59 AM, Lee Evans moonsiste...@yahoo.com wrote: Thursday, October 4, 2012 10:53 AM I get the same response from hostile people. Trees and vegetables are living things so you can't eat that either. Well, I will never be seen munching on a tree. I'm not a woodpecker but my idea is that I never eat anything that had a face or could move on feet, claws, feelers, or any way else. Most vegetables (except politicians) are meant to be eaten. So are fruits. When I was growing vegetables, I would allow a certain number of them to go to seed, to fulfill their need to propagate. The rest I would eat. Humans have a choice. Carnivorous species such as cats, lions, birds of prey don't have a choice so I wouldn't expect them to be made into vegetarians. Unfortunately, here comes the problem. If we all stop eating animals, then we won't kill cows, sheep, pigs and the cats won't have meat in their cat food. But here's the solution. They rarely have much meat in the cat food anyway. The first ingredient in most store products is corn meal. I assume that we could produce a balanced cat food with enough Taurine and other ingredients to satisfy physical needs of a carnivore like a cat if everyone in the world became vegetarian. However, thinking that everyone will some day become vegetarian is rather unrealistic, like those people who think that if we spay and neuter outside cats, colony cats, etc. we will some day not have any more cats and dogs on Earth. Actually, this happened in one city. They picked up all the cats and killed them at the city animal pound. Altogether, 2000 cats were destroyed. It was a small city. Everyone rejoiced. The outside roaming cat population was gone! Several months later, the outside roaming rat and mouse population increased to alarming levels and the city had to import a few hundred cats from surrounding cities to get things back under control. Stupid ideas abound. Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors too! ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] President
Without endorsing either candidate here's some thoughts I had on deciding between the candidates: I don't think either candidate will directly influence animal cruelty laws or humane practice laws. They've got too much else to worry about, especially right now. Even if they love animals it will not be their priority. So, for this particular election I'm not even considering it. Now obviously if the candidate was a known animal abuser that would be different and would impact my decision. When it comes to animal issues I tend to focus on the legislative branch like Congress and state reps, etc. that would have more influence passing legislation and laws. So, regarding animal welfare I'm basing my decision on who can best help me and other people help the animals and continue our work in animal welfare. It's not what they will do, it's what they will allow me to do. Right now the economy is a problem. People are losing their homes and can't keep their pets. Donations to animal welfare organizations are down so they can't do as much either. Many people like myself feed a bunch of feral cats. It is hard to keep doing that when you can barely afford to feed your family. I volunteer with a local humane society so even in our small part of the world I've seen a major increase in the number of pets surrendered by owners who lost their homes or just left their pets behind. People have to spend more time trying to make ends meet and don't have time to volunteer with animal rescues etc. Just lots of things like that. Considering those kinds of things I'm looking at who can help the economy the most. Each candidate has very different economic policies and very different approaches to boosting our economy. So that's one thing I'm looking at hard - which economic policy do I think will work. I lived in a third world country for two years a long time ago. Their animals were a lot worse off than ours and it wasn't because the people weren't compassionate they just didn't have anything to be able to help their animals. So right now I'm looking at which economic plan will help the country get back on it's feet so we can keep our pets and have time to donate and volunteer to fight for animal protection legislation. Healthcare is definitely something to consider but that's also part of the economic crisis so I'm not going to directly contribute any thoughts on that. I would suggest not looking at just what the candidates say they will do for the animals but look at what will help us do for the animals. They've got too many other issues to tackle. I'd be surprised if either one of them took up one animal issue whatsoever. It's people like us who are working for the animals that make the difference so see what they can do for us and we'll do all the legwork to help the animals. Take a look at the economic plans and that will help influence your decision. I had a few basic economic courses in college so I understand the basics but not all the details. I think if you just look at the basic models without going into too too many details it would be enough to make a decision. But hey, there's lots of other things to consider but that's where I'm at when I think about what will help the animals the most. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain From: taylore...@msn.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 11:44:05 -0500 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] President Thanks for sharing that with us because I have wondered how someone in the healthcare industry felt about it. Speaking from the perspective of someone whose husband lost his job 3 days before Christmas in 2008 and all of the promises made by the current administration to help with mortgages, healthcare, etc., I'm not seeing it, nor were we helped in any size, shape or fashion. With regards to healthcare, we were told that because I had a full time job, I could (in a nutshell) s*ck it up and pay out an additional $500 a month to cover my husband and his son on my company's insurance plan until he found a job. We were also told that we had too much equity in our home so we didn't qualify for any mortgage assistance and in the end, I simply borrowed from his and my 401K and we just made ends meet until 15 months later he found full time employment. So, who is the better candidate? I really don't know :( Oh and to keep on track with kitty discussions for this group and speaking of FeLuk, one of our kitties that we thought was feral but ended up not being feral, so we brought her inside was diagnosed with a rapidly advancing cancer a few weeks ago and she is only about 2-3 years old. The doctor said that the
Re: [Felvtalk] Bow Hunting
That is pretty insane that they all had to die. BTW, I find it interesting that now people are against eating plants, how do these people live? What do they eat? your right people are not going to stop eating meat, people have been eating meat since the dark ages, Tribes that still live in the jungles how would they survive? People who depend on the land for food? ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] President - OT Topics
I agree with Terri. This list was set up to discuss ill kitties. NOT politics and hunting. There are other groups dedicated to those topics. In the meantime how about helping out Bella. That is what this group is for JMHO Sharyl From: Joslin Potter joslinir...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Thursday, October 4, 2012 10:59 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] President Sorry Terri I didn't mean to offend anyone, I was just curious I'm so confused on who to vote for, and everyone is saying something different. From: Terri Brown siggies...@hotmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Thursday, October 4, 2012 10:51 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] President I think this topic should be off limits here. Terri ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] President
Thanks, Maureen. That was well stated you made very valid points. Thanks for your opinion :). By the way, I don't care for either candidate. All politicians lie I feel like I have to vote for the lesser of two evils, in my opinion. Thanks again, Maureen! L Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Maureen Olvey molvey...@hotmail.com Sender: Felvtalk felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2012 13:52:28 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Reply-to: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] President ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] President
One brief thing... The Obama Care we now have is not even close to the way he wanted it. He had to make too many concessions to the Republicans who really screwed it up. My opinion - and you can guess who I'll vote for. Lorrie On 10-04, Terri Brown wrote: Well, I have a different take on the whole healthcare thing because I work for a health insurance company. I understand how the business works. That being said, there are good things about the Obamacare, but there are some things that are NOT. So I disagree that it should stand as it is. It needs to be replaced. My opinion. I cannot speak on behalf of my employer. Terri ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] for Lee
Lee, We think alike. Humans are the main cause of most of the problems on earth! Too bad we have to keep feeding hunters, irresponsible pet owners, polluters, and other jerks like this. Lorrie On 10-04, Lee Evans wrote: During the years of concentration camps, very few babies were born to the women who were being tortured there, even though rape was rampant. It wasn't that they turned off their reproductive system because it was a legitimate rape but because below a certain nutritional level, the body of a woman can't sustain a pregnancy and miscarries. Deer and other wild animal populations regulate themselves during times when food is scarce and then grow during times when food is readily available. Feeding corn to deer in the winter assures all these darling sport hunters of a good stock of victims for their sport when deer season arrives again. If hunting and eating the victim is a good means of population control, maybe we should reconsider cannibalism. Humans are soon going to outgrow themselves. There are 8 billion of us infecting the planet at this time and if even half of those breed, we will have another 4 billion within a year or two.. Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors too! ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Declaw
Edna, Can't say I blame you for not backing down on the declawing. My mom didn't even like cats enough to adopt one. I never figured out how I became such an animal lover, because I was always dragging home injured animals and Mom would say Get that filthy thing out of here. If my mom saw how many cats I have now she'd turn over in her grave. Lorrie On 10-04, Edna Taylor wrote: Lorrie, I agree with you 100%. My Mom has wanted to adopt several kittens I have had in the past and I have always told her NO because she declaws, then she complains that her cats aren't as sweet and social as they were when they were kittens and I say that's because you tortured and mutilated them, good going Mom. That is one position that I will NOT back down from and I don't care if it hurts my Mom's feelings because she should have never done it in the first place and for what? furniture? pppft. Don't get me wrong, I love my Mom but I don't agree with what she did. Declawing is cruel and inhumane :( Edna __ ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Bow Hunting
Actually, people started eating meat when the Ice Age came, they had to become hunters because they used to be mostly gatherers when the climate was conducive, and I'm sure that occasionally, they would hunt, too. There are people who actually live on only raw foods, fruit. Some of the Hunzas manage to survive on just energy - not sure how that works, mind over matter? Actually, people in jungles could very easily be vegan most of the time because of all the available fruit. As you may know, our intestines are extremely long, whereas true carnivores' are very short. In a nutshell: Carnivores also have stronger digestive acids and the food moves very quickly through the intestines, in about 12 hrs. Food can be inside our intestines, putrefying as long as 36 hours, and with weaker digestive juices. If things go as they are on this planet, something will seriously have to change - rearing animals for food is not effective to feed the masses and also destroys the planet in more ways than one. From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Joslin Potter Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 2:01 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow Hunting That is pretty insane that they all had to die. BTW, I find it interesting that now people are against eating plants, how do these people live? What do they eat? your right people are not going to stop eating meat, people have been eating meat since the dark ages, Tribes that still live in the jungles how would they survive? People who depend on the land for food? ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Declaw
My mom didn't like cats either, but I know where I came from. My gramma loved dogs and cats and I spent a log of time with her. My Mom loved loved dogs, we had 12 collies living with us, but NO CATS!! Sent from my iPhone On Oct 4, 2012, at 3:34 PM, Lorrie felineres...@frontier.com wrote: Edna, Can't say I blame you for not backing down on the declawing. My mom didn't even like cats enough to adopt one. I never figured out how I became such an animal lover, because I was always dragging home injured animals and Mom would say Get that filthy thing out of here. If my mom saw how many cats I have now she'd turn over in her grave. Lorrie On 10-04, Edna Taylor wrote: Lorrie, I agree with you 100%. My Mom has wanted to adopt several kittens I have had in the past and I have always told her NO because she declaws, then she complains that her cats aren't as sweet and social as they were when they were kittens and I say that's because you tortured and mutilated them, good going Mom. That is one position that I will NOT back down from and I don't care if it hurts my Mom's feelings because she should have never done it in the first place and for what? furniture? pppft. Don't get me wrong, I love my Mom but I don't agree with what she did. Declawing is cruel and inhumane :( Edna __ ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] FW: President
Actually very simple: Romney's dog on top of the car and Obama's dog inside the car. From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Maureen Olvey Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 1:52 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] President Without endorsing either candidate here's some thoughts I had on deciding between the candidates: I don't think either candidate will directly influence animal cruelty laws or humane practice laws. They've got too much else to worry about, especially right now. Even if they love animals it will not be their priority. So, for this particular election I'm not even considering it. Now obviously if the candidate was a known animal abuser that would be different and would impact my decision. When it comes to animal issues I tend to focus on the legislative branch like Congress and state reps, etc. that would have more influence passing legislation and laws. So, regarding animal welfare I'm basing my decision on who can best help me and other people help the animals and continue our work in animal welfare. It's not what they will do, it's what they will allow me to do. Right now the economy is a problem. People are losing their homes and can't keep their pets. Donations to animal welfare organizations are down so they can't do as much either. Many people like myself feed a bunch of feral cats. It is hard to keep doing that when you can barely afford to feed your family. I volunteer with a local humane society so even in our small part of the world I've seen a major increase in the number of pets surrendered by owners who lost their homes or just left their pets behind. People have to spend more time trying to make ends meet and don't have time to volunteer with animal rescues etc. Just lots of things like that. Considering those kinds of things I'm looking at who can help the economy the most. Each candidate has very different economic policies and very different approaches to boosting our economy. So that's one thing I'm looking at hard - which economic policy do I think will work. I lived in a third world country for two years a long time ago. Their animals were a lot worse off than ours and it wasn't because the people weren't compassionate they just didn't have anything to be able to help their animals. So right now I'm looking at which economic plan will help the country get back on it's feet so we can keep our pets and have time to donate and volunteer to fight for animal protection legislation. Healthcare is definitely something to consider but that's also part of the economic crisis so I'm not going to directly contribute any thoughts on that. I would suggest not looking at just what the candidates say they will do for the animals but look at what will help us do for the animals. They've got too many other issues to tackle. I'd be surprised if either one of them took up one animal issue whatsoever. It's people like us who are working for the animals that make the difference so see what they can do for us and we'll do all the legwork to help the animals. Take a look at the economic plans and that will help influence your decision. I had a few basic economic courses in college so I understand the basics but not all the details. I think if you just look at the basic models without going into too too many details it would be enough to make a decision. But hey, there's lots of other things to consider but that's where I'm at when I think about what will help the animals the most. I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn't..the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further. - Mark Twain ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Bow Hunting
Good point Natalie. The way they are being reared is a huge problem. I live in cattle country. I know that animals are only valued for dollars. I hear a lot listening to farmers, I don't say anything, that way I learn more about that mentality. I hugely detest gestation crates for pigs, who so do not deserve that. I write my congressman, sign petitions and share all that on FB. Because there are a ton of people out there that don't know where their food came from! Sent from my iPhone On Oct 4, 2012, at 4:22 PM, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: Actually, people started eating meat when the Ice Age came, they had to become hunters because they used to be mostly gatherers when the climate was conducive, and I’m sure that occasionally, they would hunt, too. There are people who actually live on only raw foods, fruit. Some of the Hunzas manage to survive on just “energy” – not sure how that works, mind over matter? Actually, people in jungles could very easily be vegan most of the time because of all the available fruit. As you may know, our intestines are extremely long, whereas true carnivores’ are very short. In a nutshell: Carnivores also have stronger digestive acids and the food moves very quickly through the intestines, in about 12 hrs. Food can be inside our intestines, putrefying as long as 36 hours, and with weaker digestive juices. If things go as they are on this planet, something will seriously have to change – rearing animals for food is not effective to feed the masses and also destroys the planet in more ways than one. From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Joslin Potter Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 2:01 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow Hunting That is pretty insane that they all had to die. BTW, I find it interesting that now people are against eating plants, how do these people live? What do they eat? your right people are not going to stop eating meat, people have been eating meat since the dark ages, Tribes that still live in the jungles how would they survive? People who depend on the land for food? ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] President
Lorrie, Me too(: Sent from my iPhone On Oct 4, 2012, at 3:45 PM, Lorrie felineres...@frontier.com wrote: One brief thing... The Obama Care we now have is not even close to the way he wanted it. He had to make too many concessions to the Republicans who really screwed it up. My opinion - and you can guess who I'll vote for. Lorrie On 10-04, Terri Brown wrote: Well, I have a different take on the whole healthcare thing because I work for a health insurance company. I understand how the business works. That being said, there are good things about the Obamacare, but there are some things that are NOT. So I disagree that it should stand as it is. It needs to be replaced. My opinion. I cannot speak on behalf of my employer. Terri ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] President
I don't know where you heard that Lorrie, but it's not true. Terri - Original Message - From: Lorriemailto:felineres...@frontier.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgmailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 4:45 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] President One brief thing... The Obama Care we now have is not even close to the way he wanted it. He had to make too many concessions to the Republicans who really screwed it up. My opinion - and you can guess who I'll vote for. Lorrie On 10-04, Terri Brown wrote: Well, I have a different take on the whole healthcare thing because I work for a health insurance company. I understand how the business works. That being said, there are good things about the Obamacare, but there are some things that are NOT. So I disagree that it should stand as it is. It needs to be replaced. My opinion. I cannot speak on behalf of my employer. Terri ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgmailto:Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.orghttp://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] FW: President
I agree that neither candidate can make animal rights/welfare a major issue in this election and I also agree that the economy is the major issue that impacts our rescues and other people's companion animals the most. Then I look at the incumbent and see a man who was trussed up like a chicken about to go into the rotisserie and I see who did the trussing up, the Republican Senate. I look at who started the sub-prime mortgage mess that led to so many people losing their homes and I see a Republican President allowing banks and stock brokers and CEO's of investment companies to have free rein to grab the money and run. I see an ineffectual congress trying to get a fair tax program wherein people earning over a quarter of a million dollars a year would pay their fair share of taxes to run the country. Then I see Republicans putting up road blocks by saying that businesses would have to shut down if taxes were raised. Who the heck ever mentioned businesses? The problem is INDIVIDUALS who are rolling in money. I see Republicans coming in with smoke and mirrors and clouding the issue, confusing people into thinking that the tax hike would be on businesses. I see a ridiculous-on-both sides health care plan with over a thousand pages of gibberish regulations. What's wrong with just extending Medicare and Medicaid to everyone? What's the problem with not re-inventing the wheel and adopting the Canadian health care model? Then my friends tell me that we need a business man with a good sense of the economy to run the country. And I say, these are the same people who ran the country off a cliff for 8 years. I don't think I want them in the drivers seat again. Just my opinion. Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors too! From: Natalie at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Thursday, October 4, 2012 4:29 PM Subject: [Felvtalk] FW: President Actually very simple: Romney’s dog on top of the car and Obama’s dog inside the car. From:Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Maureen Olvey Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 1:52 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] President Without endorsing either candidate here's some thoughts I had on deciding between the candidates:___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Bow Hunting
In addition, our teeth are not those of carnivores. We have teeth similar to other primates. We can't tear into our food. We chomp like a chimp. Our teeth are suited to nuts, seeds, grains, fruit, leaves, tubers and roots. When we try to shred meat, even the most tender steak or well cooked chicken, our teeth tend to mash it down rather than prepare it properly for digestion. Our gall bladders work overtime trying to deal with animal fat. All animal flesh has fat in it, even the stuff listed as lean. The meat gets stuck between our chompers and causes tooth decay whereas if we ate rice, beans, plants and fruits, we would haves less reason to floss. Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors too! From: Marcia marciabmar...@gmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Thursday, October 4, 2012 4:32 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow Hunting Good point Natalie. The way they are being reared is a huge problem. I live in cattle country. I know that animals are only valued for dollars. I hear a lot listening to farmers, I don't say anything, that way I learn more about that mentality. I hugely detest gestation crates for pigs, who so do not deserve that. I write my congressman, sign petitions and share all that on FB. Because there are a ton of people out there that don't know where their food came from! Sent from my iPhone On Oct 4, 2012, at 4:22 PM, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: Actually, people started eating meat when the Ice Age came, they had to become hunters because they used to be mostly gatherers when the climate was conducive, and I’m sure that occasionally, they would hunt, too. There are people who actually live on only raw foods, fruit. Some of the Hunzas manage to survive on just “energy” – not sure how that works, mind over matter? Actually, people in jungles could very easily be vegan most of the time because of all the available fruit. As you may know, our intestines are extremely long, whereas true carnivores’ are very short. In a nutshell: Carnivores also have stronger digestive acids and the food moves very quickly through the intestines, in about 12 hrs. Food can be inside our intestines, putrefying as long as 36 hours, and with weaker digestive juices. If things go as they are on this planet, something will seriously have to change – rearing animals for food is not effective to feed the masses and also destroys the planet in more ways than one. From:Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Joslin Potter Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 2:01 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow Hunting That is pretty insane that they all had to die. BTW, I find it interesting that now people are against eating plants, how do these people live? What do they eat? your right people are not going to stop eating meat, people have been eating meat since the dark ages, Tribes that still live in the jungles how would they survive? People who depend on the land for food? ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] (no subject)
Don't fret Elizabeth. Occasionally we get a little off topic but we soon get back on the road. Just like you would take a journey and have to pull over to the shoulder of the road to allow your car to cool down we do the same here. We all have different opinions and sometimes we just like to cool down by having a chat with people we feel safe with - people who rescue cats and who understand the ethical decisions we make in not killing those cats who test FeLv+. It feels to me like sitting down to dinner with a church group. We all agree on the religion but we may all approach it in a different way and see it in a different way and even get way off topic and discuss hair styles and shoe styles. If you have a question about feline leukemia, please ask it and we will discontinue our chat about everything under the sun and moon and help you with your issue. Blessings. Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors too! From: Elizabeth Malone malon...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Thursday, October 4, 2012 10:38 PM Subject: [Felvtalk] (no subject) This list has always been so very helpful—now it is full of judgmental people that do nothing but bash those with different views. What is happening to this list? If people hunt they are evil. Like it or not many people all over the world hunt—they are all condemned because there are those that hate it. Then the list is now into politics. What happened to helping deliver information about feline leukemia? People that look in to get help see this and leave. It is heartbreaking that this is deteriorating away from what brought all to the list in the first place. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] (no subject)
I have been with this list since my kitten developed Feline Leukemia in 2006. I have seen it go way off topic and people that have been invaluable leave. I realize I don’t post often, but as I am with many animal groups I do send people that are struggling. It was most disheartening to know that they were not able to get help, but did learn that people hated their beliefs. They just needed guidance because they are dealing with this for the first time. This has always been a place to hear the newest treatments and for those given grim news the knowledge that there is always hope. From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lee Evans Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 9:47 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] (no subject) Don't fret Elizabeth. Occasionally we get a little off topic but we soon get back on the road. Just like you would take a journey and have to pull over to the shoulder of the road to allow your car to cool down we do the same here. We all have different opinions and sometimes we just like to cool down by having a chat with people we feel safe with - people who rescue cats and who understand the ethical decisions we make in not killing those cats who test FeLv+. It feels to me like sitting down to dinner with a church group. We all agree on the religion but we may all approach it in a different way and see it in a different way and even get way off topic and discuss hair styles and shoe styles. If you have a question about feline leukemia, please ask it and we will discontinue our chat about everything under the sun and moon and help you with your issue. Blessings. Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors too! _ From: Elizabeth Malone malon...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Thursday, October 4, 2012 10:38 PM Subject: [Felvtalk] (no subject) This list has always been so very helpful—now it is full of judgmental people that do nothing but bash those with different views. What is happening to this list? If people hunt they are evil. Like it or not many people all over the world hunt—they are all condemned because there are those that hate it. Then the list is now into politics. What happened to helping deliver information about feline leukemia? People that look in to get help see this and leave. It is heartbreaking that this is deteriorating away from what brought all to the list in the first place. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
