Re: [Felvtalk] Yogi's Passing

[Randy Henke]

My heart breaks to read this, Bob. You had encouraging words to give me
about Curly and I have none to give you. Just deep condolences.

It's a sad world when medical treatment for a human or a beloved pet comes
down to money. I've been down both of those roads. My wife and I both work
full-time jobs which allow us enough extra money to pay for treatments. But
if even one of us was forced to become a full-time caretaker we couldn't
afford the cost of treatments. I hope it doesn't come to that.

I honestly cannot imagine opening myself up for any more losses after our
current clan is gone. But I applaud you for being willing to give a home to
yet another FELV cat who desperately needs it. The world needs more people
like you,

My thoughts are with you.

Randy

On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 6:31 PM, ROBERT CHAPEL 
wrote:

> Over the months some of you might recall my little guy Yogi for whom I had
> asked advice ( mostly about his eyes) on several occassions and most
> recently for suggestions related to making money to be able to keep
> treating him..
> Well my little Yogi passed away in my arms on Sunday morningHe had
> started to go downhill a few weeks ago when his HCT dropped over a few
> weeks to 14   I did manage to get my hands on some Winstrol thanks to
> the efforts of others on this forum to whom I am eternally grateful but he
> faded too fast for it to have adequate effect ( or he simply was not one of
> the cats that was going to respond to it)
> He got to pass peacefully at home on the bed that he knew so well and with
> the hand of the guy that loved him and worked to keep him alive all these
> months stroking him..  I had actually made arrangements to put him down
> later that day after seeing the condition he was in that morning.  I'm SO
> glad I didn't have to keep that appointment.
> It's been a tough go...   The little guy never really knew more than a few
> months of health.
> There was , honestly, nothing really remarkable about him ...just a ratty
> little skinny thing with one clouded over eye but he was a sweet gentle
> little soul that never so much as  attempted to scratch me despite all the
> things I had to put him through to keep him alive There was almost
> nothing left of him at the end ( started with him at 6 months old and 7.5
> lbs and progressively over a year lost 3 lbs ( about 40% of his body weight
> .  I probably would have put him down on at least 3 occassions if it wasn't
> for all the good advice and suggestions I got from all of you that helped
> me press on .
> So now I go from hurting every day watching him go downhill to the one big
> hurt of losing him  it will pass in a bit of time( though certainly not
> today!) and it gives me the opportunity to give a home to another FeLV Cat
> that would have spent it's life in a cage.. and to give a playmate to
> my still healthy guy who is still very much a Kitten in his actions and
> DYING to have someone to play with...this time I will FOSTER so that I
> don't go broke with cat care if the next little guy/girl starts to go south
> well ahead of time...
> Thanks to  all of you for being there for FeLV cats...  You all are the
> one bit of luck the kitties who have come under your care have had
>
> Bob
> Warwick NY
>
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>
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Re: [Felvtalk] Curly's gradual improvement

[Randy Henke]

Curly's latest labs from yesterday show another hematocrit leap from 15% to
23% in 2 1/2 weeks. She has also gained 6/10 of a pound! (7.1 up from 6.5).
Behaviorally she is almost back to her old self. She is no longer hiding,
seeks out attention and is eating well. Our vet told us he is astounded.
But more importantly, he said that he is changing his treatment for FELV
cats based on Curly's remarkable improvement and will be using Prednisone,
Winstrol and Doxycyline in the future. A small win for our side against
this disease.

Her blood chemistry test did show that her ALT levels have risen to 174
which is an indicator that liver cells are being destroyed. Our vet said it
is definitely a result of the anabolic steroid but he isn't overly
concerned yet. H wants us to continue treatment for another month. Once
Curly's hematocrit is up to around 30 he wants to start cycling the
Winstrol, one week on and one week off, to give her liver a chance to
regenerate.

Without this forum and the advice I received here along with a very
understanding and open-minded vet, I'm quite sure Curly wouldn't be around
anymore. I have my fingers crossed that we can keep things balanced and
headed in the right direction but so far, so good!

On Sun, Jan 22, 2017 at 12:23 PM, Amani Oakley <aoak...@oakleylegal.com>
wrote:

> Hopefully, we start winning the vets over when they see the results, and
> they start to tell each other about some success for FeLV cats with this
> combination. By the way, I have also effectively used this combination for
> a cat who, I believe had FIV, and I currently am using just the
> Doxy/Winstrol combination on 2 of 3 kittens we picked up from the side of
> the road in August and they displayed the symptoms of Lyme Disease
> (alternating lameness and other signs). In the last case, I am pretty sure
> that the majority of the effect on the Lyme organism *(Borrelia
> bergdorferi) *is from the Doxycycline, but the good effect on the
> lameness (which had been in place for several months before I thought to
> try the medications) is I believe as a result of the use of the Winstrol.
>
>
>
> When the vets tell me that (a) they don’t know what the diagnosis is and
> other options seem ineffective or (b) they tell me there is no hope, I will
> usually try the Winstrol and almost always get a decent result.
>
>
>
> Amani
>
>
>
> *From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On Behalf
> Of *Randy Henke
> *Sent:* January-22-17 11:54 AM
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Curly's gradual improvement
>
>
>
> Amani, you asked what our vet thought about Curly's improvement. He was
> very pleased but I think he was also a little surprised. He is an
> incredible vet and always goes the extra mile to listen and explain things.
> He was also very open to letting us try the Prednisolone, Doxy and
> Winstrol, even though he'd never treated a FELV cat in that way. I think he
> thought it would help put my mind at ease that we'd tried everything we
> could and he's right. It would have done that even if the treatment hadn't
> worked. He was very concerned about the Prednisolone opening her up to
> secondary infections but once he saw the numbers start to improve he was
> convinced we were doing the right thing and told us to keep it up. I am
> going to talk to him about continuing the Doxy.
>
> Robert, that's a great idea about crushing the Doxy, mixing it in broth
> and administering with a syringe. We'd tried mixing it in her food once and
> that did not go well. Obviously it's a very nasty tasting medicine.
>
> Ardy and Katherine, thanks for your support. I really wish that more vets
> were open to trying novel treatments that hold so much potential instead of
> assuming that they know everything.
>
> Randy
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 19, 2017 at 9:11 PM, Amani Oakley <aoak...@oakleylegal.com>
> wrote:
>
> Oh Randy, I am so THRILLED to hear of your positive response to the
> medications, and that your vet was so helpful. (What does your vet think of
> the response?) You may think that 15% haematocrit is still very sick, and
> it is still well outside the normal range, but you’ve basically had a 60%
> increase in haematocrit in 3 weeks. That is quite amazing and wonderful. It
> is as good a result as you would have had with 2 units of blood being given
> as a transfusion, only it is much better than a transfusion because Curly
> is producing her own cells, rather than temporarily filling up with someone
> else’s blood.
>
>
>
> With respect to the Doxy, I am not sure. If it were me, I would probably
> want to continue if you can. You’ve had a very good result. Why mess with
> the formula? I can’t say definitively, one way or the other, since

Re: [Felvtalk] Curly's gradual improvement

[Randy Henke]

Amani, you asked what our vet thought about Curly's improvement. He was
very pleased but I think he was also a little surprised. He is an
incredible vet and always goes the extra mile to listen and explain things.
He was also very open to letting us try the Prednisolone, Doxy and
Winstrol, even though he'd never treated a FELV cat in that way. I think he
thought it would help put my mind at ease that we'd tried everything we
could and he's right. It would have done that even if the treatment hadn't
worked. He was very concerned about the Prednisolone opening her up to
secondary infections but once he saw the numbers start to improve he was
convinced we were doing the right thing and told us to keep it up. I am
going to talk to him about continuing the Doxy.

Robert, that's a great idea about crushing the Doxy, mixing it in broth and
administering with a syringe. We'd tried mixing it in her food once and
that did not go well. Obviously it's a very nasty tasting medicine.

Ardy and Katherine, thanks for your support. I really wish that more vets
were open to trying novel treatments that hold so much potential instead of
assuming that they know everything.

Randy



On Thu, Jan 19, 2017 at 9:11 PM, Amani Oakley <aoak...@oakleylegal.com>
wrote:

> Oh Randy, I am so THRILLED to hear of your positive response to the
> medications, and that your vet was so helpful. (What does your vet think of
> the response?) You may think that 15% haematocrit is still very sick, and
> it is still well outside the normal range, but you’ve basically had a 60%
> increase in haematocrit in 3 weeks. That is quite amazing and wonderful. It
> is as good a result as you would have had with 2 units of blood being given
> as a transfusion, only it is much better than a transfusion because Curly
> is producing her own cells, rather than temporarily filling up with someone
> else’s blood.
>
>
>
> With respect to the Doxy, I am not sure. If it were me, I would probably
> want to continue if you can. You’ve had a very good result. Why mess with
> the formula? I can’t say definitively, one way or the other, since I very
> much figured things out by running weekly blood work and if I saw a dip or
> a reversal in the numbers, I would adjust the medication accordingly. I
> don’t know if I am right about my Doxy theory (and it is just pure
> conjecture on my part, based on my non-vet research) but I really think
> that the Doxy is part of the effective package. I feel that the Doxy holds
> the virus in check – perhaps slowing down its reproduction by inhibiting
> RNA synthesis – enough to allow the body to make some progress with the
> Winstrol. I don’t think that the Winstrol on its own is enough.
>
>
>
> With the Doxy, I used to scrape the quarter tablet into a slab of butter
> to coat it with butter, to help it slide down better, since the quarter
> table it very dry and scratchy. I also posted recently that the Doxy we get
> from vets (and even from our doctors) is the same as what you can get to
> treat fish or birds, in a pet store, and that is sold in powdered packages
> of 100 mg (same as 1 tablet). A prescription isn’t needed for it, and
> because it is powdered, it can be mixed into food or liquid.
>
>
>
> Great news, too, with your success in getting her to eat more and put on
> weight.
>
>
>
> I love to hear good news on this front. Let’s hope she continues in the
> right direction.
>
>
>
> Amani
>
>
>
> *From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On Behalf
> Of *Randy Henke
> *Sent:* January-19-17 9:53 PM
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Subject:* [Felvtalk] Curly's gradual improvement
>
>
>
> It has been a little over a month ago that I asked for advice on this
> forum for our little girl, Curly.
>
> At that point, I had little hope. She was so lethargic and her hematocrit
> had dipped to a critical 9%. I took everyone's advice, especially Amani's,
> and asked our vet for Predisolone, Winstrol and Doxycycline.
>
> According to her latest CBC two weeks ago, she is still a very sick kitty
> but her hematocrit rebounded to 15% which I know is still very low. All
> other numbers are improving slowly as well. That was after less than three
> weeks of treatment.
>
> She is due for another CBC next Tuesday and I am hopeful we will see more
> improvement. I've noticed her gums are more pink which I believe is a good
> sign.
>
> We were still having problems with getting her to eat. She would have her
> good days and her bad days but her weight was still creeping down. Last
> week I asked our vet about Mirtazapine and our vet agreed to give us a
> prescription for it. I have to thank Robert for mentioning this in one of
> his posts.
>
> One day last week she didn't want t

[Felvtalk] Curly's gradual improvement

[Randy Henke]

It has been a little over a month ago that I asked for advice on this forum
for our little girl, Curly.

At that point, I had little hope. She was so lethargic and her hematocrit
had dipped to a critical 9%. I took everyone's advice, especially Amani's,
and asked our vet for Predisolone, Winstrol and Doxycycline.

According to her latest CBC two weeks ago, she is still a very sick kitty
but her hematocrit rebounded to 15% which I know is still very low. All
other numbers are improving slowly as well. That was after less than three
weeks of treatment.

She is due for another CBC next Tuesday and I am hopeful we will see more
improvement. I've noticed her gums are more pink which I believe is a good
sign.

We were still having problems with getting her to eat. She would have her
good days and her bad days but her weight was still creeping down. Last
week I asked our vet about Mirtazapine and our vet agreed to give us a
prescription for it. I have to thank Robert for mentioning this in one of
his posts.

One day last week she didn't want to eat so I gave her a quarter pill (3.75
mg) which is the dose our vet prescribed to give her daily. The result was
phenomenal and almost a little scary. She was bouncing off the walls within
a few hours and eating everything she could get her paws on. I almost felt
a little sorry for her because it was like she couldn't sit still for more
than a couple of minutes. But it was like getting our old Curly back again
in just a single day!

The effect tapered off after a couple of days and we didn't feel
comfortable giving her another dose until she stopped eating again because
of how dramatic the change was. I've read online that a smaller dose could
be effective if given every 72 hours so we are going to try doing that so
she keeps eating. It was incredible to see her weight go up by a quarter
pound in just a couple of days.

We are continuing the Prednisolone and Winstrol at the recommended doses
but our two week Doxycycline prescription ran out over a week ago. She does
appear to still be making improvement without it but I'm wondering if I
should ask for another prescription to keep that going as well.

I always worry about giving her the quarter pill of Doxy because I know it
can cause esophageal damage if it isn't followed by liquids. I was
following the pill with the liquid Winstrol solution but wasn't sure if
that was enough.

Many thanks to everyone who gave us advice. It looks like we might have our
Curly back for at least a while yet and it's all because of you people.

Randy
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Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis

[Randy Henke]

The situation with Curly is getting a bit more complicated but in a good
way. Her blood work a week ago showed an RBC of 9 which is critically low.
White cell count was 3.1. After one week of Prednisone her white cell count
is 3.7 which is the low end of normal and her red blood cell count is up to
13 which is still very low but a very significant increase in just one
week. So the Prednisone alone is making a big difference. We've now had two
positive ELISA tests, a negative IFA and severe anemia that is responding
well to just Prednisone. I am very confused. Even our vet seems surprised
by the sudden improvement in her numbers. He thinks we should do a bone
marrow biopsy for a definitive FELV diagnosis but I don't really want to
put her through that procedure.

We did start the Winstrol a day ago so I would think that could only help
more. We should be tapering down the Prednisone dose at this time but our
vet now wants to continue the full dosage for another two weeks before
running another CBC. And the Doxy will be started on Monday. I'm beginning
to think she might pull out of this crisis and we might have a little more
time with her.

On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 9:46 PM, Ardy Robertson <ar...@centurytel.net>
wrote:

> Best of luck to you with Curly  just wanted to mention there are
> appetite stimulant pills available. One that I remember that I used with
> Tigger was Mirtazapine and I only had to give a small part of a pill every
> 3 days. Amani knows of another one but I can’t remember the name of it.
>
>
>
> Ardy
>
>
>
> *From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On Behalf
> Of *Randy Henke
> *Sent:* Monday, December 19, 2016 8:10 PM
>
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis
>
>
>
> Our vet must be one of the good ones. He approved both Winstrol and
> Doxycycline even though he has never used them for FELV positive cats.
> We'll be adding those onto Curly's Prednisone as soon as we get them. So
> far she is hanging in there. She only eats Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers (about
> a small can every other day) but her weight is holding around 7 pounds.
> About a half pound below her best weight before she got sick. She still
> gets up to get drinks of water and use the litter box and she is still
> grooming herself. She wants very little social interaction which is not
> like her at all and she has very little energy, preferring to stay on the
> bed almost all of the time. Her breathing is also fairly rapid and has been
> for quite a few days.
>
> Hopefully this will be another success story for your kitty cocktail.
> We'll owe you much if it works.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 19, 2016 at 10:19 AM, Amani Oakley <aoak...@oakleylegal.com>
> wrote:
>
> Randy
>
>
>
> I really don’t know. I have only had experience with the pills which I
> found very effective. As a compromise option, I would take if that is the
> only way the vet will agree to proceed.
>
>
>
> Amani
>
>
>
> *From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On Behalf
> Of *Randy Henke
> *Sent:* December-19-16 9:46 AM
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis
>
>
>
> Hi Amani,
>
> I have a call in to our vet now about the Winstrol and Doxycycline. I've
> read that there is also the option of getting a weekly shot of Winstrol as
> opposed to the pills. If our vet balks at prescribing the pills but would
> be willing to give her the shot would it still work as well?
>
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 7:12 PM, Amani Oakley <aoak...@oakleylegal.com>
> wrote:
>
> Wishing you luck.
>
>
>
> Amani
>
>
>
> *From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On Behalf
> Of *Randy Henke
> *Sent:* December-16-16 8:12 PM
>
>
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis
>
>
>
> Thank you, Amani! I'll see what I can do to convince the vet on Monday.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 6:54 PM, Amani Oakley <aoak...@oakleylegal.com>
> wrote:
>
> 1 mg 2 times a day.
>
>
>
> Amani
>
>
>
> *From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On Behalf
> Of *Randy Henke
> *Sent:* December-16-16 7:52 PM
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis
>
>
>
> That is information that is definitely useful to me! Thanks so much! Do
> you know what dosage of Winstrol I should ask for for a 6.8 pound cat? I
> want to have as much info as possible when I talk to my vet on Monday.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 4:25 PM, Amani Oakley <aoak..

Re: [Felvtalk] Bogey's Blood Test Today These look worse PG 2

[Randy Henke]

I'm so glad the bloodwork results weren't as dire as you thought they might
be.

Good luck to you and Bogey!

On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 8:37 AM, Sherri Godschalk 
wrote:

> Well I called my vet today for clarification about the test results and
> the plan of action. He wants her back on the Winstrol and Doxy now. When I
> expressed my concern about her ALT he said he fully expected that to rise
> because of the prednisone injection he gave her upon releasing her.  That
> is processed through her liver so he was not surprised. He reiterated that
> he felt the Winstrol was alright to give even while her enzymes are up
> because it is not processed in her liver. I guess that is the route we are
> going to take, so tomorrow is the day. Starting Doxy today.
>
> Wish us luck!
>
>
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>
>
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Re: [Felvtalk] Curly's appetite...

[Randy Henke]

Thanks, Robert. I'll definitely know what to ask for if it comes to that.
Curly is still eating a significant amount of the Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers
twice a day and she ate quite a bit of canned tuna last night. We'll be
starting the Winstrol tonight and will be waiting on the Doxy until Monday
because of our holiday schedule. I'm a little concerned about her
respiration rate which has crept up into the 40s.

On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 1:52 AM, ROBERT CHAPEL <bcha...@optonline.net>
wrote:

> Randy
>
> I'm not sure if the dosages of prednisone and Winstrol Curly will be
> getting are in the range that were formerly used for appetite stimulation
> in Kitties...( yes in the " old " days Corticosterioids AND anabolic
> Steroids were the go to drugs for appetite stimulation but often did more
> harm than good if not used judiciously.The other drug that Ardy was
> referring to was likely Cyproheptadine... an antihistamine that has since
> been replaced by Mirtazapine ( an antidepressant in humans) in part due to
> an easier dosing schedule( Daily to Q3days vs every 8 hours or so for the
> Cypro   There are many who still swear by the Cyproheptadine( I'll
> write out the full word rather than cause the confusion of mixing it up
> with the antibiotic_ Cipro. All of the above have worked a " little "
> for my different cats over the years.   Most recently I used Mirtazapine
> for my boy Yogi ( who has been on no less than 10 different Meds in the
> past few months and it worked well for a couple of days... but then not at
> all. Fortunately the crisis passed and he went back to eating on his
> own when the pain in his eye subsided ( Now he appears to be developing
> Nasal complications due to all the damn Eye Drops I have to give him to
> keep his Uveitis at bay and clear up the Ocular Herpes that caused the
> whole mess.  FeLV can be a challenge for some unlucky Kitties for
> sureHave any of the folks here who have used he combination of
> Prednisolone and Wintrol noticed increases in appetite??
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 10:46 PM, felvtalk-requ...@felineleukemia.org
> wrote:
>
> Send Felvtalk mailing list submissions to
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>>
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>>
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>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>1. Re: Bogey's Blood Test Today These look worse PG 2
>>   (Sherri Godschalk)
>>2. Re: FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis (Ardy Robertson)
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2016 20:25:39 -0500
>> From: Sherri Godschalk To: Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bogey's Blood Test
>> Today These look worse PG 2
>> Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> Well I am not sure he noticed some of the increases on page 2 here. It
>> seems
>> like all of these are going the wrong direction. She isn?t showing any
>> jaundice and her gait is much improved but still having some issues with
>> balance. I ask them to run the full battery of blood tests today but it
>> doesn?t look like they did. Do you all agree that these numbers are not
>> better but in fact worse than when they released her on Dec 14th?
>> Scale 20-Dec 14-Dec 12-Dec
>>  GLU 74-159 122 125 178
>>  BUN 16-36 21 14 23
>>  CREA 08-2.4 1.1 0.8 1.3
>>  BUN/CREA  19 18 18
>>  PHOS 3.1-7.5   4.5
>>  CA 7.8-11.3   9.8  TP 5.7-8.9 8.1 7.9 8.7
>>  ALB 2.2-4.0 3.4 2.9 3.1
>>  GLOB 2.8-5.1 4.7 5 5.6
>>  ALB/GLB  0.7 0.6 0.6
>>  ALT 12-130 581 192 237
>>  ALKP 14-111 81 42 39
>>  GGT 0-4   8   TBIL .0-.9  27.2 27.9
>>  CHOL 65-225   170  AMYL 500-1500   842
>>  LIPA 100-1400   255
>>  NA 150-165   158   K 3.5-5.8   3.4   NA/K46   CL 112-129   114 OSM
>> CALC318 Sherri
>>
>>
>> From:  Felvtalk  on behalf of Randy
>> Henke Reply-To:  Date:  Tuesday, December 20, 2016 at 4:54 PM
>> To:  Subject:  Re: [Felvtalk] Bogey's Blood Test Today
>>
>> That is phenomenal, Sherri! I'm hoping for a repeat of that performance
>> with
>> our girl, Curly.
>>
>> On Tue

Re: [Felvtalk] Bogey's Blood Test Today

[Randy Henke]

That is phenomenal, Sherri! I'm hoping for a repeat of that performance
with our girl, Curly.

On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 3:48 PM, Sherri Godschalk 
wrote:

> Bogey is still improving. The Dr came out to talk with me himself instead
> of sending out a tech. Never does that. He said everything looked good
> except her red blood cells have gotten smaller but there are more of them.
> As well as him being concerned about infection since her WBC and NEU are
> elevated. I read that can be from pred and he gave her a shot of it before
> he sent her home last week when normally I gave her a pill each day. He
> wants me to start her back on the Doxy and Winstrol but not the pred yet. I
> still feel like it might be soon on the Winstrol since she hasn't been out
> of the hospital for even a week yet. I will post the 2nd page of the blood
> test later if anyone is interested. But LOOK at the Platelet count...go
> Bogey!
>
> Range 20-Dec 12-Dec 26-Oct 30-Sep 16-Sep 24-Aug
> RBC 6.54 12.2 5.57 4.99 2.54 2.9 2.57 2.43
> HCT 30.3 52.3 30.9 35.1 14.8 17.9 15.3 15.3
> HGB 9.8 16.2 10.2 10.4 5.2 6.2 5.5 5.3
> MCV 35.9 53.1 55.5 70.3 58.3 61.7 59.1 62.6
> MCH 11.8 17.3 18.3 20.8 20.5 21.4 21.4 21.8
> MCHC 28.1 35.8 33 29.6 35.1 34.6 36.2 34.9
> RDW 15 27 23.8 22.2 24.5 25.2 23.7 23.9
> RETIC 3 50 37.3 27.4 89.9 82.1 78.1 61.5
> WBC 2.87 17.02 22.34 8.59 13.05 12.01 14.47 13.46
> NEU 1.48 10.29 15.82 5.42 3.97 3.96 4.07 4.03
> LYM 0.92 6.88 3.98 2.21 7.8 6.81 8.83 7.75
> MONO 0.05 0.67 1.89 0.87 1.16 1.17 1.52 1.58
> EOS 0.17 1.57 0.49 0.08 0.11 0.06 0.004 0.01
> BASO 0.01 0.26 0.16 0.01 0.01 0.01 0.01 0
> PLT 151 800 295 122 28 53 88 50
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 0
>
>
>
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>
___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis

[Randy Henke]

Our vet must be one of the good ones. He approved both Winstrol and
Doxycycline even though he has never used them for FELV positive cats.
We'll be adding those onto Curly's Prednisone as soon as we get them. So
far she is hanging in there. She only eats Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers (about
a small can every other day) but her weight is holding around 7 pounds.
About a half pound below her best weight before she got sick. She still
gets up to get drinks of water and use the litter box and she is still
grooming herself. She wants very little social interaction which is not
like her at all and she has very little energy, preferring to stay on the
bed almost all of the time. Her breathing is also fairly rapid and has been
for quite a few days.

Hopefully this will be another success story for your kitty cocktail. We'll
owe you much if it works.

On Mon, Dec 19, 2016 at 10:19 AM, Amani Oakley <aoak...@oakleylegal.com>
wrote:

> Randy
>
>
>
> I really don’t know. I have only had experience with the pills which I
> found very effective. As a compromise option, I would take if that is the
> only way the vet will agree to proceed.
>
>
>
> Amani
>
>
>
> *From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On Behalf
> Of *Randy Henke
> *Sent:* December-19-16 9:46 AM
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis
>
>
>
> Hi Amani,
>
> I have a call in to our vet now about the Winstrol and Doxycycline. I've
> read that there is also the option of getting a weekly shot of Winstrol as
> opposed to the pills. If our vet balks at prescribing the pills but would
> be willing to give her the shot would it still work as well?
>
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 7:12 PM, Amani Oakley <aoak...@oakleylegal.com>
> wrote:
>
> Wishing you luck.
>
>
>
> Amani
>
>
>
> *From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On Behalf
> Of *Randy Henke
> *Sent:* December-16-16 8:12 PM
>
>
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis
>
>
>
> Thank you, Amani! I'll see what I can do to convince the vet on Monday.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 6:54 PM, Amani Oakley <aoak...@oakleylegal.com>
> wrote:
>
> 1 mg 2 times a day.
>
>
>
> Amani
>
>
>
> *From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On Behalf
> Of *Randy Henke
> *Sent:* December-16-16 7:52 PM
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis
>
>
>
> That is information that is definitely useful to me! Thanks so much! Do
> you know what dosage of Winstrol I should ask for for a 6.8 pound cat? I
> want to have as much info as possible when I talk to my vet on Monday.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 4:25 PM, Amani Oakley <aoak...@oakleylegal.com>
> wrote:
>
> No Randy, Winstrol is an anabolic steroid (unlike prednisone which is a
> corticosteroid) so it does not have a dampening effect on the immune
> system. What you need right now is something to stimulate red cell
> production. If your cat has FELV, then the problem is that the progenitor
> cells in the bone marrow will have been infiltrated/killed by the virus and
> thus, the red cell production is down. Red cells have a life span of 120
> days in circulation, so once that is over and they die, then they must be
> replenished by a steady supply of new cells from the bone marrow.
>
>
>
> The only thing I have found that will do that is Winstrol. However, I use
> it in a cocktail with Doxycycline which has been found to retard the
> reproduction of viral RNA, and prednisone. This is the only combination of
> drugs that worked when my cat was in FELV crisis and had a haematocrit
> result of 5 (with the reference range being something like 25 to 35, off
> the top of my head). I had tried LTCI and interferon and even though I
> tested his blood weekly, I saw no change/improvement at all in his red cell
> count, haematocrit, hemoglobin, platelets, etc. It was only when I stumbled
> upon the use of Winstrol (he was already on prednisone and Doxy, but they
> don’t work without the Winstrol), that I saw a steady and sustained
> improvement in his haematology numbers.
>
>
>
> The scandal, Randy, is that Winstrol is one of the steroids often
> implicated in athletic doping scandals, so vets seem to be gun shy about
> prescribing it. Also, some years ago, a very poorly conducted experiment
> was published where cats where given 10 times the recommended dose of
> Winstrol as a “loading dose” and developed liver problems. So between these
> two driving forces, you have a lot of uneducated vets who will eit

Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis

[Randy Henke]

Hi Amani,

I have a call in to our vet now about the Winstrol and Doxycycline. I've
read that there is also the option of getting a weekly shot of Winstrol as
opposed to the pills. If our vet balks at prescribing the pills but would
be willing to give her the shot would it still work as well?

On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 7:12 PM, Amani Oakley <aoak...@oakleylegal.com>
wrote:

> Wishing you luck.
>
>
>
> Amani
>
>
>
> *From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On Behalf
> Of *Randy Henke
> *Sent:* December-16-16 8:12 PM
>
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis
>
>
>
> Thank you, Amani! I'll see what I can do to convince the vet on Monday.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 6:54 PM, Amani Oakley <aoak...@oakleylegal.com>
> wrote:
>
> 1 mg 2 times a day.
>
>
>
> Amani
>
>
>
> *From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On Behalf
> Of *Randy Henke
> *Sent:* December-16-16 7:52 PM
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis
>
>
>
> That is information that is definitely useful to me! Thanks so much! Do
> you know what dosage of Winstrol I should ask for for a 6.8 pound cat? I
> want to have as much info as possible when I talk to my vet on Monday.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 4:25 PM, Amani Oakley <aoak...@oakleylegal.com>
> wrote:
>
> No Randy, Winstrol is an anabolic steroid (unlike prednisone which is a
> corticosteroid) so it does not have a dampening effect on the immune
> system. What you need right now is something to stimulate red cell
> production. If your cat has FELV, then the problem is that the progenitor
> cells in the bone marrow will have been infiltrated/killed by the virus and
> thus, the red cell production is down. Red cells have a life span of 120
> days in circulation, so once that is over and they die, then they must be
> replenished by a steady supply of new cells from the bone marrow.
>
>
>
> The only thing I have found that will do that is Winstrol. However, I use
> it in a cocktail with Doxycycline which has been found to retard the
> reproduction of viral RNA, and prednisone. This is the only combination of
> drugs that worked when my cat was in FELV crisis and had a haematocrit
> result of 5 (with the reference range being something like 25 to 35, off
> the top of my head). I had tried LTCI and interferon and even though I
> tested his blood weekly, I saw no change/improvement at all in his red cell
> count, haematocrit, hemoglobin, platelets, etc. It was only when I stumbled
> upon the use of Winstrol (he was already on prednisone and Doxy, but they
> don’t work without the Winstrol), that I saw a steady and sustained
> improvement in his haematology numbers.
>
>
>
> The scandal, Randy, is that Winstrol is one of the steroids often
> implicated in athletic doping scandals, so vets seem to be gun shy about
> prescribing it. Also, some years ago, a very poorly conducted experiment
> was published where cats where given 10 times the recommended dose of
> Winstrol as a “loading dose” and developed liver problems. So between these
> two driving forces, you have a lot of uneducated vets who will either think
> you are “unethical” for asking for the Winstrol, or believe it is a harmful
> drug thanks to the stupid scientific study that was published. Plus, even
> where they are willing to prescribe it (like in Sherri’s case) they don’t
> recognize the need to couple it with the Doxycycline, and thus, you do get
> a weak boost of the red cells, etc., but the virus is reproducing
> rampantly, so in the end, the virus wins. (Then, of course, not recognizing
> the need for the Doxy, those same vets will view the use of Winstrol as a
> failure and not likely use it again.)
>
>
>
> Other medications that might increase red cell production are
> erythropoietin and related medications, but erythropoietin does not
> encourage bone marrow growth and development as Winstrol does. Thus, if the
> progenitor cells in the bone marrow, which produce red cells, white cells
> and platelets, have been killed by the virus (or converted to infected
> cells, spewing out more virus) then the erythropoietin will not be
> effective because it simply encourages those progenitor cells to produce
> more red cells. However, because they can’t and thus cannot respond to the
> stimulation by erythropoietin. (If your cat doesn’t have FELV, and has
> anemia because of some other cause, then the erythropoietin might work.)
>
>
>
> Winstrol stimulates bone production (experiments have used it effectively
> in older adults for osteoporosis), and

Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis

[Randy Henke]

Thank you, Amani! I'll see what I can do to convince the vet on Monday.

On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 6:54 PM, Amani Oakley <aoak...@oakleylegal.com>
wrote:

> 1 mg 2 times a day.
>
>
>
> Amani
>
>
>
> *From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On Behalf
> Of *Randy Henke
> *Sent:* December-16-16 7:52 PM
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis
>
>
>
> That is information that is definitely useful to me! Thanks so much! Do
> you know what dosage of Winstrol I should ask for for a 6.8 pound cat? I
> want to have as much info as possible when I talk to my vet on Monday.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 4:25 PM, Amani Oakley <aoak...@oakleylegal.com>
> wrote:
>
> No Randy, Winstrol is an anabolic steroid (unlike prednisone which is a
> corticosteroid) so it does not have a dampening effect on the immune
> system. What you need right now is something to stimulate red cell
> production. If your cat has FELV, then the problem is that the progenitor
> cells in the bone marrow will have been infiltrated/killed by the virus and
> thus, the red cell production is down. Red cells have a life span of 120
> days in circulation, so once that is over and they die, then they must be
> replenished by a steady supply of new cells from the bone marrow.
>
>
>
> The only thing I have found that will do that is Winstrol. However, I use
> it in a cocktail with Doxycycline which has been found to retard the
> reproduction of viral RNA, and prednisone. This is the only combination of
> drugs that worked when my cat was in FELV crisis and had a haematocrit
> result of 5 (with the reference range being something like 25 to 35, off
> the top of my head). I had tried LTCI and interferon and even though I
> tested his blood weekly, I saw no change/improvement at all in his red cell
> count, haematocrit, hemoglobin, platelets, etc. It was only when I stumbled
> upon the use of Winstrol (he was already on prednisone and Doxy, but they
> don’t work without the Winstrol), that I saw a steady and sustained
> improvement in his haematology numbers.
>
>
>
> The scandal, Randy, is that Winstrol is one of the steroids often
> implicated in athletic doping scandals, so vets seem to be gun shy about
> prescribing it. Also, some years ago, a very poorly conducted experiment
> was published where cats where given 10 times the recommended dose of
> Winstrol as a “loading dose” and developed liver problems. So between these
> two driving forces, you have a lot of uneducated vets who will either think
> you are “unethical” for asking for the Winstrol, or believe it is a harmful
> drug thanks to the stupid scientific study that was published. Plus, even
> where they are willing to prescribe it (like in Sherri’s case) they don’t
> recognize the need to couple it with the Doxycycline, and thus, you do get
> a weak boost of the red cells, etc., but the virus is reproducing
> rampantly, so in the end, the virus wins. (Then, of course, not recognizing
> the need for the Doxy, those same vets will view the use of Winstrol as a
> failure and not likely use it again.)
>
>
>
> Other medications that might increase red cell production are
> erythropoietin and related medications, but erythropoietin does not
> encourage bone marrow growth and development as Winstrol does. Thus, if the
> progenitor cells in the bone marrow, which produce red cells, white cells
> and platelets, have been killed by the virus (or converted to infected
> cells, spewing out more virus) then the erythropoietin will not be
> effective because it simply encourages those progenitor cells to produce
> more red cells. However, because they can’t and thus cannot respond to the
> stimulation by erythropoietin. (If your cat doesn’t have FELV, and has
> anemia because of some other cause, then the erythropoietin might work.)
>
>
>
> Winstrol stimulates bone production (experiments have used it effectively
> in older adults for osteoporosis), and I don’t anything else which fits the
> bill.
>
>
>
> Cats with FELV often also have lymphocytes lining the intestinal walls, or
> other problems with moving food through the intestines. My cat did, and
> that resulted in (a) loss of appetite (b) vomiting and (c) slow bowel
> movements. I therefore found it necessary to add a ¼ tablet of
> metoclompromine (Reglen) before meal times twice a day. Worked like a charm.
>
>
>
> This cocktail then brought my baby back from the brink of certain death. I
> had given him blood transfusions with his anemia, but that is only a
> short-term solution and he wasn’t producing any red cells (reticulocyte
> count was basically zero – this is a measure o

Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis

[Randy Henke]

That is information that is definitely useful to me! Thanks so much! Do you
know what dosage of Winstrol I should ask for for a 6.8 pound cat? I want
to have as much info as possible when I talk to my vet on Monday.

On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 4:25 PM, Amani Oakley <aoak...@oakleylegal.com>
wrote:

> No Randy, Winstrol is an anabolic steroid (unlike prednisone which is a
> corticosteroid) so it does not have a dampening effect on the immune
> system. What you need right now is something to stimulate red cell
> production. If your cat has FELV, then the problem is that the progenitor
> cells in the bone marrow will have been infiltrated/killed by the virus and
> thus, the red cell production is down. Red cells have a life span of 120
> days in circulation, so once that is over and they die, then they must be
> replenished by a steady supply of new cells from the bone marrow.
>
>
>
> The only thing I have found that will do that is Winstrol. However, I use
> it in a cocktail with Doxycycline which has been found to retard the
> reproduction of viral RNA, and prednisone. This is the only combination of
> drugs that worked when my cat was in FELV crisis and had a haematocrit
> result of 5 (with the reference range being something like 25 to 35, off
> the top of my head). I had tried LTCI and interferon and even though I
> tested his blood weekly, I saw no change/improvement at all in his red cell
> count, haematocrit, hemoglobin, platelets, etc. It was only when I stumbled
> upon the use of Winstrol (he was already on prednisone and Doxy, but they
> don’t work without the Winstrol), that I saw a steady and sustained
> improvement in his haematology numbers.
>
>
>
> The scandal, Randy, is that Winstrol is one of the steroids often
> implicated in athletic doping scandals, so vets seem to be gun shy about
> prescribing it. Also, some years ago, a very poorly conducted experiment
> was published where cats where given 10 times the recommended dose of
> Winstrol as a “loading dose” and developed liver problems. So between these
> two driving forces, you have a lot of uneducated vets who will either think
> you are “unethical” for asking for the Winstrol, or believe it is a harmful
> drug thanks to the stupid scientific study that was published. Plus, even
> where they are willing to prescribe it (like in Sherri’s case) they don’t
> recognize the need to couple it with the Doxycycline, and thus, you do get
> a weak boost of the red cells, etc., but the virus is reproducing
> rampantly, so in the end, the virus wins. (Then, of course, not recognizing
> the need for the Doxy, those same vets will view the use of Winstrol as a
> failure and not likely use it again.)
>
>
>
> Other medications that might increase red cell production are
> erythropoietin and related medications, but erythropoietin does not
> encourage bone marrow growth and development as Winstrol does. Thus, if the
> progenitor cells in the bone marrow, which produce red cells, white cells
> and platelets, have been killed by the virus (or converted to infected
> cells, spewing out more virus) then the erythropoietin will not be
> effective because it simply encourages those progenitor cells to produce
> more red cells. However, because they can’t and thus cannot respond to the
> stimulation by erythropoietin. (If your cat doesn’t have FELV, and has
> anemia because of some other cause, then the erythropoietin might work.)
>
>
>
> Winstrol stimulates bone production (experiments have used it effectively
> in older adults for osteoporosis), and I don’t anything else which fits the
> bill.
>
>
>
> Cats with FELV often also have lymphocytes lining the intestinal walls, or
> other problems with moving food through the intestines. My cat did, and
> that resulted in (a) loss of appetite (b) vomiting and (c) slow bowel
> movements. I therefore found it necessary to add a ¼ tablet of
> metoclompromine (Reglen) before meal times twice a day. Worked like a charm.
>
>
>
> This cocktail then brought my baby back from the brink of certain death. I
> had given him blood transfusions with his anemia, but that is only a
> short-term solution and he wasn’t producing any red cells (reticulocyte
> count was basically zero – this is a measure of new red cell production and
> should be increased in cases of anemia to demonstrate that the body is
> producing red cells to compensate for the reduced red cell count). He had
> had a reaction with his last blood transfusion, and so no more transfusions
> were possible since the next one would kill him, and I was all out of
> options as I watched his haematocrit level drop lower and lower, week by
> week. It had dropped to 10 when I “discovered” an old bottle of Winstrol in
> my drawer.

Re: [Felvtalk] Questioning FELV diagnosis

[Randy Henke]

Thank you so much for that info, Sherri. I'm going to continue with the
interferon and the Prednisone and talk to my vet early next week about
Winstrol and Doxycycline. She's hanging in there for the moment. Drinking
well, eating quite a bit of Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers which is the only
thing she is interested in at the moment, grooming herself again and
beginning to want attention.

On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 10:51 AM, Sherri Godschalk <skgodschal...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Randy,
>
> So sorry to hear about your Tigger.
>
> I will also add my experience for the Winstrol, Doxy and Prednisolone.
> This combination of drugs is saving the life of my cat. I don’t understand
> all of the science of how the medicine works on creating new red blood
> cells. Amani does though! But when my cat was diagnosed as anemic (due to
> FELV) she was prescribed both of the steroids initially and she, within
> weeks, got more energy, ate more (important), played more. Her numbers
> didn’t raise much but she felt better and adjusted to the lower counts. I
> feared too about the suppressed immunity. Get her blood tested often. I
> kept her box clean…disposable pans, Secondhand News litter. Washed her
> dishes all the time. She was a stray and yearns to be outdoors but we never
> let her. Added supplements. We really didn’t see a noticeable change in the
> numbers until they added Doxy a couple of months later. This kitty cocktail
> has allowed my cats numbers to rise to normal levels in 4 months. Without
> out I don’t think she would still be with us. The benefits certainly
> outweigh the risks as far as I am concerned. She is struggling with
> something unrelated right now but is recovering because these drugs made
> her strong enough to do so. I don’t think you will find one person on this
> forum that isn’t thankful that they could get, or wish that they could.
>
> Just my 2 cents. Wishing you the best.
>
> Sherri
>
> From: Felvtalk <felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org> on behalf of Randy
> Henke <ra...@magicedge.com>
> Reply-To: <felvtalk@felineleukemia.org>
> Date: Friday, December 16, 2016 at 9:14 AM
>
> To: <felvtalk@felineleukemia.org>
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Questioning FELV diagnosis
>
> It's interesting that our vet was very hesitant about even prescribing
> Prednisone because he is afraid it will suppress her immunity to secondary
> infections. I know that is a risk. Would adding Winstrol suppress her
> immune system even further? I'm very confused about how to proceed.
>
> On Thu, Dec 15, 2016 at 10:23 PM, Ardy Robertson <ar...@centurytel.net>
> wrote:
>
>> If I can chime in on Winstrol, it did wonders on my Tigger to get his
>> bloodwork up. I only wish I had started it sooner, along with the
>> prednisolone and doxycycline.
>>
>> Best of luck!
>>
>> Ardy
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On Behalf
>> Of *Amani Oakley
>> *Sent:* Thursday, December 15, 2016 8:02 PM
>> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
>> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Questioning FELV diagnosis
>>
>>
>>
>> Randy
>>
>>
>>
>> Regardless of the cause of the anemia, I have repeatedly recommended
>> Winstrol (Stanazolol) which is used for intractable severe anemia in humans
>> and animals. If you are new to this group, you may not have seen the
>> difficulty most people face when trying to get Winstrol for their cats. See
>> if your vet will prescribe it, but be aware that a vet usually has to order
>> it from a compounding pharmacy. I agree that you should also use prednisone
>> (or prednisolone, as recommended by others) along with the Winstrol.
>>
>>
>>
>> Amani
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
>> <felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org>] *On Behalf Of *Randy Henke
>> *Sent:* December-14-16 1:48 PM
>> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
>> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Questioning FELV diagnosis
>>
>>
>>
>> I will keep everyone posted, Katherine. I'm hoping my hunch is correct
>> that she doesn't have FELV but she's still very sick right now.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 7:56 AM, Katherine K. <kaths...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Randy,
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm sorry your baby isn't feeling well. What an unusual story you shared.
>> Did your vet say anything about hemobartonella? That can cause anemia, but
>> I'm not very familiar with it so I can't offer much more information or
>> advice there. There is a Yahoo! group called Feline_Anemia. It was pretty
>> acti

Re: [Felvtalk] Questioning FELV diagnosis

[Randy Henke]

It's interesting that our vet was very hesitant about even prescribing
Prednisone because he is afraid it will suppress her immunity to secondary
infections. I know that is a risk. Would adding Winstrol suppress her
immune system even further? I'm very confused about how to proceed.

On Thu, Dec 15, 2016 at 10:23 PM, Ardy Robertson <ar...@centurytel.net>
wrote:

> If I can chime in on Winstrol, it did wonders on my Tigger to get his
> bloodwork up. I only wish I had started it sooner, along with the
> prednisolone and doxycycline.
>
> Best of luck!
>
> Ardy
>
>
>
> *From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On Behalf
> Of *Amani Oakley
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 15, 2016 8:02 PM
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Questioning FELV diagnosis
>
>
>
> Randy
>
>
>
> Regardless of the cause of the anemia, I have repeatedly recommended
> Winstrol (Stanazolol) which is used for intractable severe anemia in humans
> and animals. If you are new to this group, you may not have seen the
> difficulty most people face when trying to get Winstrol for their cats. See
> if your vet will prescribe it, but be aware that a vet usually has to order
> it from a compounding pharmacy. I agree that you should also use prednisone
> (or prednisolone, as recommended by others) along with the Winstrol.
>
>
>
> Amani
>
>
>
> *From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
> <felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org>] *On Behalf Of *Randy Henke
> *Sent:* December-14-16 1:48 PM
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Questioning FELV diagnosis
>
>
>
> I will keep everyone posted, Katherine. I'm hoping my hunch is correct
> that she doesn't have FELV but she's still very sick right now.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 7:56 AM, Katherine K. <kaths...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Randy,
>
>
>
> I'm sorry your baby isn't feeling well. What an unusual story you shared.
> Did your vet say anything about hemobartonella? That can cause anemia, but
> I'm not very familiar with it so I can't offer much more information or
> advice there. There is a Yahoo! group called Feline_Anemia. It was pretty
> active a couple years ago, not sure about now, but at least you could
> search the archives. I had an 8 month old kitten die from anemia, but he
> was definitely FeLV positive.
>
>
>
> Talk to your vet about prednisolone, instead of prednisone. My 14 yo FeLV
> cat has been on it for a long time now. He also gets mirtazapine every few
> days, which stimulates his appetite.
>
>
>
> Keep us posted on Curly!
>
>
>
> Katherine
>
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 8:40 AM, Randy Henke <ra...@magicedge.com> wrote:
>
> Our cat, Curly, is ten years old. We found her outside as a kitten and had
> her tested for FELV at that time. She was negative. She's been strictly an
> indoor cat since then and had no contact with any potentially infected cats.
>
> Three months ago, she wasn't acting like herself. Very lethargic and
> moderately dehydrated. We took her to the vet. She was running a low fever
> and her blood test showed severe anemia and low white cell count. The vet
> suspected immune mediated hemolytic anemia. He gave her some fluids,
> started her on an antibiotic for any potential infections and prednisone.
> Three days later she was about the same so we took her back to the vet.
> This time they ran an ELISA test to rule out FELV even though it was
> incredibly unlikely given her history. It came back positive. They drew
> blood at that time for an IFA test to confirm it and told us to discontinue
> the prednisone immediately.
>
> By the next day, Curly was feeling better and she quickly bounced back to
> her old self which I suspect was due to the three days of prednisone
> treatment. The IFA test came back negative.
>
> We were content to think the ELISA was a false positive because Curly
> seemed fine until a couple of weeks ago when she became listless and
> anti-social again. Another blood test showed her to again be very anemic.
>
> We are very confused about what to do. The negative IFA really has me
> wondering. From my understanding, that test is 99.9% accurate in detecting
> the second stage of leukemia.
>
> A negative IFA should mean only one of two things:
>
> 1. The cat is not infected with FELV.
>
> 2. The cat is in the early stages and has not progressed to the second
> stage of the disease where the virus infects the bone marrow.
>
> That would mean that, in order for the anemia to have been caused by
> leukemia, the IFA should have definit

Re: [Felvtalk] Questioning FELV diagnosis

[Randy Henke]

Thank you, Amani. I will be talking to my vet tomorrow and will definitely
mention Winstrol.

On Thu, Dec 15, 2016 at 8:02 PM, Amani Oakley <aoak...@oakleylegal.com>
wrote:

> Randy
>
>
>
> Regardless of the cause of the anemia, I have repeatedly recommended
> Winstrol (Stanazolol) which is used for intractable severe anemia in humans
> and animals. If you are new to this group, you may not have seen the
> difficulty most people face when trying to get Winstrol for their cats. See
> if your vet will prescribe it, but be aware that a vet usually has to order
> it from a compounding pharmacy. I agree that you should also use prednisone
> (or prednisolone, as recommended by others) along with the Winstrol.
>
>
>
> Amani
>
>
>
> *From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On Behalf
> Of *Randy Henke
> *Sent:* December-14-16 1:48 PM
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Questioning FELV diagnosis
>
>
>
> I will keep everyone posted, Katherine. I'm hoping my hunch is correct
> that she doesn't have FELV but she's still very sick right now.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 7:56 AM, Katherine K. <kaths...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Randy,
>
>
>
> I'm sorry your baby isn't feeling well. What an unusual story you shared.
> Did your vet say anything about hemobartonella? That can cause anemia, but
> I'm not very familiar with it so I can't offer much more information or
> advice there. There is a Yahoo! group called Feline_Anemia. It was pretty
> active a couple years ago, not sure about now, but at least you could
> search the archives. I had an 8 month old kitten die from anemia, but he
> was definitely FeLV positive.
>
>
>
> Talk to your vet about prednisolone, instead of prednisone. My 14 yo FeLV
> cat has been on it for a long time now. He also gets mirtazapine every few
> days, which stimulates his appetite.
>
>
>
> Keep us posted on Curly!
>
>
>
> Katherine
>
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 8:40 AM, Randy Henke <ra...@magicedge.com> wrote:
>
> Our cat, Curly, is ten years old. We found her outside as a kitten and had
> her tested for FELV at that time. She was negative. She's been strictly an
> indoor cat since then and had no contact with any potentially infected cats.
>
> Three months ago, she wasn't acting like herself. Very lethargic and
> moderately dehydrated. We took her to the vet. She was running a low fever
> and her blood test showed severe anemia and low white cell count. The vet
> suspected immune mediated hemolytic anemia. He gave her some fluids,
> started her on an antibiotic for any potential infections and prednisone.
> Three days later she was about the same so we took her back to the vet.
> This time they ran an ELISA test to rule out FELV even though it was
> incredibly unlikely given her history. It came back positive. They drew
> blood at that time for an IFA test to confirm it and told us to discontinue
> the prednisone immediately.
>
> By the next day, Curly was feeling better and she quickly bounced back to
> her old self which I suspect was due to the three days of prednisone
> treatment. The IFA test came back negative.
>
> We were content to think the ELISA was a false positive because Curly
> seemed fine until a couple of weeks ago when she became listless and
> anti-social again. Another blood test showed her to again be very anemic.
>
> We are very confused about what to do. The negative IFA really has me
> wondering. From my understanding, that test is 99.9% accurate in detecting
> the second stage of leukemia.
>
> A negative IFA should mean only one of two things:
>
> 1. The cat is not infected with FELV.
>
> 2. The cat is in the early stages and has not progressed to the second
> stage of the disease where the virus infects the bone marrow.
>
> That would mean that, in order for the anemia to have been caused by
> leukemia, the IFA should have definitely been positive at that point
> because it would need to be actively compromising the bone marrow's
> functioning.
>
> I am leaning toward trying prednisone again, especially since she is
> hardly eating or moving around at this point. If anyone can point out if my
> logic is flawed, please do so. Any suggestions would be very much
> appreciated.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Randy
>
>
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>
>
>
> ___
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> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>
>
> ___
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> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>
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Re: [Felvtalk] Questioning FELV diagnosis

[Randy Henke]

Hi Sheila,

Thanks for your opinion. I'm thinking along the same lines. If it's not too
late I am going to start her on the Prednisone tonight and hope for the
best.

On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 7:55 AM, Armstrong-Brown, Sheila DDS Timonium <
sheila.armstrong-br...@ssa.gov> wrote:

> I am sure the Elisa test was wrong.  You can have Curly retested in 3
> months to be sure.  The IFA is very accurate.  If the cat is indoor, no way
> to get infected.
>
>
>
> *From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On Behalf
> Of *Randy Henke
> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 14, 2016 8:41 AM
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Subject:* [Felvtalk] Questioning FELV diagnosis
>
>
>
> Our cat, Curly, is ten years old. We found her outside as a kitten and had
> her tested for FELV at that time. She was negative. She's been strictly an
> indoor cat since then and had no contact with any potentially infected cats.
>
> Three months ago, she wasn't acting like herself. Very lethargic and
> moderately dehydrated. We took her to the vet. She was running a low fever
> and her blood test showed severe anemia and low white cell count. The vet
> suspected immune mediated hemolytic anemia. He gave her some fluids,
> started her on an antibiotic for any potential infections and prednisone.
> Three days later she was about the same so we took her back to the vet.
> This time they ran an ELISA test to rule out FELV even though it was
> incredibly unlikely given her history. It came back positive. They drew
> blood at that time for an IFA test to confirm it and told us to discontinue
> the prednisone immediately.
>
> By the next day, Curly was feeling better and she quickly bounced back to
> her old self which I suspect was due to the three days of prednisone
> treatment. The IFA test came back negative.
>
> We were content to think the ELISA was a false positive because Curly
> seemed fine until a couple of weeks ago when she became listless and
> anti-social again. Another blood test showed her to again be very anemic.
>
> We are very confused about what to do. The negative IFA really has me
> wondering. From my understanding, that test is 99.9% accurate in detecting
> the second stage of leukemia.
>
> A negative IFA should mean only one of two things:
>
> 1. The cat is not infected with FELV.
>
> 2. The cat is in the early stages and has not progressed to the second
> stage of the disease where the virus infects the bone marrow.
>
> That would mean that, in order for the anemia to have been caused by
> leukemia, the IFA should have definitely been positive at that point
> because it would need to be actively compromising the bone marrow's
> functioning.
>
> I am leaning toward trying prednisone again, especially since she is
> hardly eating or moving around at this point. If anyone can point out if my
> logic is flawed, please do so. Any suggestions would be very much
> appreciated.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Randy
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>
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Re: [Felvtalk] Questioning FELV diagnosis

[Randy Henke]

I will keep everyone posted, Katherine. I'm hoping my hunch is correct that
she doesn't have FELV but she's still very sick right now.

On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 7:56 AM, Katherine K. <kaths...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Randy,
>
> I'm sorry your baby isn't feeling well. What an unusual story you shared.
> Did your vet say anything about hemobartonella? That can cause anemia, but
> I'm not very familiar with it so I can't offer much more information or
> advice there. There is a Yahoo! group called Feline_Anemia. It was pretty
> active a couple years ago, not sure about now, but at least you could
> search the archives. I had an 8 month old kitten die from anemia, but he
> was definitely FeLV positive.
>
> Talk to your vet about prednisolone, instead of prednisone. My 14 yo FeLV
> cat has been on it for a long time now. He also gets mirtazapine every few
> days, which stimulates his appetite.
>
> Keep us posted on Curly!
>
> Katherine
>
> On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 8:40 AM, Randy Henke <ra...@magicedge.com> wrote:
>
>> Our cat, Curly, is ten years old. We found her outside as a kitten and
>> had her tested for FELV at that time. She was negative. She's been strictly
>> an indoor cat since then and had no contact with any potentially infected
>> cats.
>>
>> Three months ago, she wasn't acting like herself. Very lethargic and
>> moderately dehydrated. We took her to the vet. She was running a low fever
>> and her blood test showed severe anemia and low white cell count. The vet
>> suspected immune mediated hemolytic anemia. He gave her some fluids,
>> started her on an antibiotic for any potential infections and prednisone.
>> Three days later she was about the same so we took her back to the vet.
>> This time they ran an ELISA test to rule out FELV even though it was
>> incredibly unlikely given her history. It came back positive. They drew
>> blood at that time for an IFA test to confirm it and told us to discontinue
>> the prednisone immediately.
>>
>> By the next day, Curly was feeling better and she quickly bounced back to
>> her old self which I suspect was due to the three days of prednisone
>> treatment. The IFA test came back negative.
>>
>> We were content to think the ELISA was a false positive because Curly
>> seemed fine until a couple of weeks ago when she became listless and
>> anti-social again. Another blood test showed her to again be very anemic.
>>
>> We are very confused about what to do. The negative IFA really has me
>> wondering. From my understanding, that test is 99.9% accurate in detecting
>> the second stage of leukemia.
>>
>> A negative IFA should mean only one of two things:
>>
>> 1. The cat is not infected with FELV.
>>
>> 2. The cat is in the early stages and has not progressed to the second
>> stage of the disease where the virus infects the bone marrow.
>>
>> That would mean that, in order for the anemia to have been caused by
>> leukemia, the IFA should have definitely been positive at that point
>> because it would need to be actively compromising the bone marrow's
>> functioning.
>>
>> I am leaning toward trying prednisone again, especially since she is
>> hardly eating or moving around at this point. If anyone can point out if my
>> logic is flawed, please do so. Any suggestions would be very much
>> appreciated.
>>
>> Thank you,
>> Randy
>>
>> ___
>> Felvtalk mailing list
>> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
>> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>>
>>
>
> ___
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> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>
___
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[Felvtalk] Questioning FELV diagnosis

[Randy Henke]

Our cat, Curly, is ten years old. We found her outside as a kitten and had
her tested for FELV at that time. She was negative. She's been strictly an
indoor cat since then and had no contact with any potentially infected cats.

Three months ago, she wasn't acting like herself. Very lethargic and
moderately dehydrated. We took her to the vet. She was running a low fever
and her blood test showed severe anemia and low white cell count. The vet
suspected immune mediated hemolytic anemia. He gave her some fluids,
started her on an antibiotic for any potential infections and prednisone.
Three days later she was about the same so we took her back to the vet.
This time they ran an ELISA test to rule out FELV even though it was
incredibly unlikely given her history. It came back positive. They drew
blood at that time for an IFA test to confirm it and told us to discontinue
the prednisone immediately.

By the next day, Curly was feeling better and she quickly bounced back to
her old self which I suspect was due to the three days of prednisone
treatment. The IFA test came back negative.

We were content to think the ELISA was a false positive because Curly
seemed fine until a couple of weeks ago when she became listless and
anti-social again. Another blood test showed her to again be very anemic.

We are very confused about what to do. The negative IFA really has me
wondering. From my understanding, that test is 99.9% accurate in detecting
the second stage of leukemia.

A negative IFA should mean only one of two things:

1. The cat is not infected with FELV.

2. The cat is in the early stages and has not progressed to the second
stage of the disease where the virus infects the bone marrow.

That would mean that, in order for the anemia to have been caused by
leukemia, the IFA should have definitely been positive at that point
because it would need to be actively compromising the bone marrow's
functioning.

I am leaning toward trying prednisone again, especially since she is hardly
eating or moving around at this point. If anyone can point out if my logic
is flawed, please do so. Any suggestions would be very much appreciated.

Thank you,
Randy
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