[Felvtalk] Vit C therapy Sally Snyder Jewell
Sally, In the interest of self-disclosure, you should mention that the company you work for, Tower Laboratories, pushes Linus Pauling products and Vitamin C therapy http://hearttechnology.com/ You yourself wrote a book on Vitamin C therapy for heart disease and the Pauling therapy. http://www.sallyjewell.com/ Its your job to push Vitamin C therapy. Can you provide references for any scientific study in the last 10 years on Vitamin C curing FeLV, FIP, stomatis or what have you in cats? Anything published in refereed veterinary medicine journals? I did a Google search looking for anything on Vitamin C and FeLV, and was not able to come up with anything. Anecdotal reports (by you) of Vitamin C therapy curing a cat of a fatal disease are one thing, and could well be true. But it remains hearsay and anecdotal until there is a formal scientific study proving the point. I think it is unfair of you to get the hopes up of people desperate to save the lives of their beloved pets by pushing Vitamin C therapy as proven fact for a relatively cheap cure, when there is nothing in the scientific literature supporting your claims. If you pose it as experimental, with anecdotal stories of its effectiveness, that may or may not help/save people's animals, then people can go in a bit more informed that maybe it might work - but maybe it won't. And be prepared if it won't. You will probably call me all sorts of names, and proclaim I am part of the evil scientific system that aims to squash research into simple cures with no money for big business. Fine. But give me some proof, otherwise you are just selling snake oil and preying on people's love of their pets. Here's one for you: why don't you talk your company, Tower Laboratories into footing the bill for a scientific study on the curative powers of Vitamin C? Pick any feline fatal disease, they could all use an effective cure. Put out a call for sick animals, say ones with veterinary diagnosed FeLV, have standards for what exactly diagnoses FeLV. Then set up a dosing protocol, have weekly reportings about the subject cats, get diagnostic blood work once a month or so, keep records, make charts, and publish in a reputable veterinary medicine journal. If your company is so sure this is a cure for everything that ails you, let them put up the money to prove it. By the way, why isn't Tower Labs running scientific studies to prove their claims? I would love it if something simple like Vitamin C therapy would cure FeLV cats. I have a friend whose favorite cat is dying from that horrible disease right now. She isn't wealthy and like a lot of people could use a cheap cure for her beloved pet. But right now I don't see anything that convinces me Vitamin C therapy works any better than anything else out there. Merlin Message: 12 Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 23:24:26 -0500 From: S. Jewell ssjew...@bellsouth.net Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] stomatitis To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Message-ID: mailman.5.1260813605.31366.felvtalk_felineleukemia@felineleukemia.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Don't be afraid to push the cat to bowel tolerance if giving vitamin C orally. The best type of vitamin C for pushing to bowel tolerance would be a pure sodium ascorbate powder (no other vitamins) mixed into the cat's wet food with liver powder to help flavor it. Increase the amount daily until the cat has loose stool, then back down and try again until the cat consistently has diarrhea at a certain level. Just below that level would be bowel tolerance. For those of you who may be concerned about all the negative propaganda surrounding the use of high levels of vitamin C, don't be. It is completely and totally benign and nontoxic at any level and will not harm your cat. Cats (and dogs) make only 40 mg per kilogram of body weight per day, whereas a mouse makes 275. Based on this it is easy to see why cats and dogs succumb to so much viral disease, infection and cancer and other animals do not. The difference in the amount they make is likely due to the high level of domestication of cats and dogs compared to their wild ancestors and also the poor quality of food that they are reduced to eating. Remember to try to spread the dosing out to a couple of times a day, as animals usually make vitamin C 24/7 in the liver. Again, do not be afraid to give your cat vitamin C to bowel tolerance, for you will see the most benefit and healing at the highest possible dosing. Intravenous is best, followed by subcutaneous or intramuscular injections, followed by oral. The Injections sting a little and the cats are not crazy about them but faster healing will be seen with this administration over the oral dosing. However, however you can get it into the cat, the key is using enough, starting immediately, and being consistent. Sally Snyder Jewell Tower
[Felvtalk] Vitamin C research
By the way, I am not against vitamin therapy. I take a handful of vitamins and minerals several times a day. I do think Vitamin C along with other things has helped reduce the number and severity of colds I get. But I don't believe it can cure feline leukemia or FIP. Show me if you can. Merlin ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] OT:help w/post traumatic stress in cat?
I'm with antianxiety meds too. It might also help with his aggression with your other cat. I have 2 on prozac for peeing issues. One of them also challenges my alpha cat. Putting him on prozac really just took the edge off of him. He still plays with his buddy cats, but he has stopped spraying and he doesn't go after my alpha nearly as often. Merlin From: Susan Hoffman susan_hoff...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org; Mari meko...@mycomhouston.com; tlstick...@yahoo.com Sent: Mon, December 7, 2009 11:50:58 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] OT:help w/post traumatic stress in cat? If the pheremones don't work then talk to your vet about antianxiety meds, either prozac or elavil, at least for awhile till he begins to get over whatever is in his past. (I had one cat on prozac for years. It made all the difference in the world.) --- On Mon, 12/7/09, Barb Moermond mr_mok...@yahoo.com wrote: ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] (no subject)
Hi Natasha, Are all your other cats up to date on feline leukemia vaccinations? You should NOT get FIV vaccination for your cats. It isn't that effective and they will then test positive for FIV, even if they don't have it. I am really hoping Stump only has FIV because that is a lot easier to manage. It really isn't as contagious as once thought passed mainly be deep bites. As long as he isn't fighting with the others to the point of drawing blood, there is no reason to separate him. I am not sure how significant a source intimate grooming is, I think very slight. I think you could let him out in the yard to play, just keep an eye on him so that he doesn't encounter strange cats. You might not want to let him out if it gets really cold, just to keep him from getting too chilled. I will let others address mixing vaccinated FeLV cats and positive cats, I don't have much information. Given that Stump and Sky have bonded, it would be a shame to have to keep them apart. Good luck with the poor baby. Merlin Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 13:41:25 -0800 (PST) From: Natasha Hinsbeeck n.hinsbe...@yahoo.com Subject: [Felvtalk] My current questions about FIV+ diagnosis To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Message-ID: 693500.24476...@web45614.mail.sp1.yahoo.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Hi! I posted yesterday about Ben's diagnosis. I've blogged this a lot on the daily kitten website, you can follow the thread if you want the whole story; but I'm just going to cut paste the questions I asked there. For the purpose of clarity, Ben is his proper name, but we just call him Stumpie, or Stump for short. Sky is a female cat in my house (much older than him) who adopted him as her own baby. Hope that covers any uncertainties? ? I'm sorry, but this is going to be a really long post. Please bear with me? I've calmed down a lot since my last post - had some time out to digest this. The reason why I freaked out is that I lost my soul-cat (Jack, my avatar) in June to leukemia. He was diagnosed on the Wednesday, and we put him to sleep on the Thursday because he was just too sick (organ failure etc). Stump's scenario looks a bit different. We caught the toxo-thing really early, and he's responding well to the treatment. Last night I was worried because he was so pale and lethargic, he definitely has a lot more energy today, but he's still awfully pale. But he's eating well, and drinking, up and running/playing - Jack couldn't do any of those things when we got his diagnosis. So I do have some hope for the child. Very tentatively, I'm soo scared of getting my heart broken all over again. My vet didnt really give me any info when he gave me the diagnosis, he gave Stump's medicine to me and said we should continue his treatment at home. Dont know if this is because he wants us to have time to say goodbye, or to minimize stressfull experiences on Stump. Point is, I now have a refrigerator full of meds to give the child. My issue now is, I have s many questions to ask, and I'm sure my vet is going to feel I'm wasting his time. Dont get me wrong, the man is a diagnostic guru with animals, and he loves animals, but he's definitely not a people-person, he's not going to get where I'm coming from on an emotional level. So I'm going to post my ideas/thoughts and questions, and hopefully some experienced TDK'ers can enlighten me? 1) Stump has no immunity of his own, due to the FIV, but also because he was a bottle baby, so he never got colostrum. Would it be worth it to supplement his diet with either some commercially produced colostrum, or to try to source some from someone who has a goat that is currently producing colostrum? I've heard from a lot of people that goat's milk is a better milk replacement than any commercial product can hope to be, we just dont have goats in the cities. If it would help, I would buy my own bloody goat at this point . . . 2) There are a few herbal remedies available here in SA that claim to help support compromised immune responses (as you may know the human aids epidemic in SA is a catastrophe), called eco-immune, developed specifically for animals. Would this contribute to helping Stump? I'm not a big believer in herbal remedies, but if it will help, I'll definitely give it a try. 3) The vet said I should keep Stump on the royal canin recovery diet because it's very high in fat, protein and calory values. Is this a good idea where kidney failure is a very real possibility? 4) Should I keep Stump isolated from my other cats? They've all had their shots, but when Jack died I was shocked to find that the FeLV on the label of the vaccine isn't actually the same FeLV that cats usually get (I was really P*SS*D off about that), any way, vet said there are specific vaccines for immunising agains FeLV, but I dont know if it's the same for FIV? If all my other cats were to get that shot, could they be allowed to socialise with each other
[Felvtalk] Mystique
Hi Sherry, I am so sorry for your loss. Why is it the sweetest ones seem to spend such a fleeting time in our lives? She was surrounded by love and I know loved you in return. She will always be with you in your heart. Merlin Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 03:33:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Sherry DeHaan sherryd...@yahoo.com Subject: [Felvtalk] Mystique Please add to the CLS :( To: Felvtalk felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Message-ID: 967855.64725...@web35608.mail.mud.yahoo.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 My heart is heavy this morning.My beautiful Mystique had to cross the bridge yesterday.She was with me for almost 2 yrs and had the happiest and sweetest personality.She always talked to me and followed me everywhere.I told her she is going to go to sleep for a short time and when she wakes up my mom will be there waiting for her to carry on loving her,and she will not be sick any longer.She has MANY wonderful souls up there with her.In a way I guess she is the lucky one.I miss you my Tiki Tiki Boom Booms. Sherry ? ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] leukemia questions
First off, how do I reply to a particular email on the list? I can't figure out how to do it without replying to the whole digest and editing. Hi Sharyl, Both the FIV kitty and FeLV+ kitty came from the same colony. We'd known about FIV before when 2 cats from that colony tested positive for it. Another kitty from that colony died from FIP a while back, who knows what he had. We suspect the FeLV+ cat was maybe born with it (he is about 3 now). That probably does not bode well for him. Merlin Message: 2 Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 15:36:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Sharyl cline...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Leukemia questions To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Message-ID: 556195.4185...@web36902.mail.mud.yahoo.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Merlin, I mix the positives and negatives but all my negative are vaccinated and current on their shots. From my stand point that is key to mixing. Also I have not brought any new kittens into the house. Babies are more susceptible than adult cats from what I have read. It is really up to the individual. You will find some here who mix and some who do not. Once you have a positive cat the outcome can vary. Some have had adults who have shaken off the virus. I haven't been that fortunate. All my positives are rescued dumpster kitties. The 4 positive 4 week old babies I rescued last yr. all died by one yr of age. Of the 4 positives that were older I have lost one. The other three are symptom free right now and are 2+ yrs old. All 8 were born with the virus. I have also rescued negative kitties from this colony if that helps explain that the virus is not as contagious as previously thought. Sharyl ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] Leukemia questions
Hi all, Thanks to Diana, Chris, Gloria, Laurie, Dorlis and Sheryl for responding to my questions. You are right, I was freaking out yesterday. I was expecting Kitty to test positive for FIV which was no big deal for the rest of the cats, and when it came back leukemia, I was stunned. I had to quickly remove Patches and didn't have anything set up for her. We removed Patches from a bad home to get her spayed (two litters already as a teenage mom) and to get her a good home since she is so nice and pretty. I kept thinking that instead of bettering her life, we had potentially given her a death sentence. Plus having to hang on to her in pretty fastidious cleaning protocols to prevent infecting my 12 cats for possibly months and more tests until we could be pretty sure she was OK to adopt out. All I really knew was that feline leukemia was contagious and very bad. A million years ago when I was in college, the cats of a friend of mine were used to help understand feline leukemia in the early research in the 1970s and 80s. He had 8 or 9 cats and all but one of them caught and died from leukemia. (No they didn't become lab cats. They assisted like human cancer patients assist with research into their disease.) You all and others have set my mind at ease that she wasn't exposed. I can go through normal new cat protocols to introduce her to my cats (all tested, negative and vaccinated) where she can stay until I get her adopted out. My friend is getting her 5 other cats and the foster kitten tested in about and hour. From what I am hearing in this group and others, the rest may be OK. I am concerned about the FIV cat who has a hard time shaking illness, and the 3 kittens. These cats have impaired or limited immune systems and would be more susceptible. If the kittens and the FIV cat are positive, it is her fault since they started out negative. I'm still curious about mixing leukemia positives and negatives. Some are saying they are doing it and no one is converting to positive, others are saying yes the virus spread to negative cats. Is there a standard line of action? In any case, I am relieved it isn't as contagious as once thought. I hesitate to tell my friend its OK to mix her cats if some test negative, since it was her irresponsible actions of not testing that got her into the current mess. She is often lax on cat health issues and I don't want to encourage that. She needs to be whacked up side the head that irresponsibility can lead to cat suffering and death. There are some things you just shouldn't cheap out on. And they will cost you even more in the long run. Merlin ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] new with questions
Hi, I've just subscribed. My friend and I picked up a stray calico and planned to get her spayed and adopted out. We named her Patches. Patches was spayed last Thursday and tested for FIV/FeLV. She tested negative. We had her vaccinated with the basics, including FeLV. Thursday night after her spay, she went to my friend's house to recover. Patches was kept in a separate bed room with her own food and water dishes that hadn't been used by the house cats, her own litter box with fresh litter, and not allowed contact with the house cats. I'm not sure how good my friend was about washing her hands between Patches and her cats. Monday afternoon, my friend found out that her cat Kitty who had been throwing up for a few weeks and now with depressed appetite, tested positive for leukemia. This was the SNAP test. I came and picked up Patches and took her to my house, where she is caged in my basement, separate from my cats. Patches was at my friend's house for 5 days. Do I have to worry that Patches might have caught leukemia from the carpet, bedding and cat bed in those 5 days? The room had been used as a foster room but in between was open so that Kitty could go in there if he wanted. He also sometimes slept in the cat bed. Should I continue to keep her separate from my cats and for how long? Do I need to retest her at some point and when? My own cats have been vaccinated annually against leukemia, except for Rusty who has not been vaccinated in about 5 years. Rusty was sick for 2 days after her first leukemia vaccination since I have had her. She may or may not have been vaccinated at the shelter where I got her, so she has had at most 2 vaccinations, and maybe only one. As for my friend, she has 4 cats, 2 kittens, and a foster kitten. She has had Kitty for a year and a half to 2 years, and he probably was infected before she got him. She never had any of her cats tested, I doubt vaccinated, and all of them have mixed freely. One older cat was tested last spring when he was brought into the house and was positive for FIV only. What are the chances the others are infected now? Does it make a difference if it is a kitten or adult? This is heartbreaking news to both of us, and neither of us know that much about feline leukemia except that it is very contagious and bad. Merlin ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
