Re: [Felvtalk] Batman Felv Positive Having Neurological issues.

[Pam Doore]

Kelly did they check him for a blood clot. There is a specific kind that
happens middle of the back. I believe it is called a Saddleback due to the
location and they come on very suddenly.

I have had a neurological issue with one of my babies but it affects her
eyes. her pupils are not the same size and when they did her neurological
exam at the local that's office her reaction time on her right side was
slower than on her left side and that right pupil is alays razer thin no
matter what the light is.

She also had an episode this summer when it was super hot that she had a
head tilt drooling and stumbling by the time I got her to the vet she had
been in a cold car long enough to fully recover.

On Thu, Oct 18, 2018, 12:24 PM katy brown  wrote:

> Hello,
> I have an amazing cat named Batman who a year ago as a kitten tested
> positive for FelV. His brother also texted positive, after 2 other tests
> later on after the antibodies from the mother had cleared, Batman still
> tested positive while his brother was negative.
>
> Fast forward a year and both of them were doing great. I was away on
> vacation and left them with a full time cat sitter, who notice about a week
> ago that Batman was not going up stairs as much, but we figured this could
> be to him just adjusting to a new person in his home. When I arrived back
> home I immediately noticed he was not moving well and as the day progressed
> he was losing more mobility in his front paws. I took him to the emergency
> room where they thought he had experienced a trauma, and discharged him
> with 2 types of pain meds. The pain meds were a disaster, and he lost
> further mobility. From there we took him to Pennsylvania Vet. Hospital,
> which is supposed to be one of the best in the country, they realized he
> was having neurological issues, did a bunch of testing, his vitals and
> blood work were all good. An x-ray revealed no masses in his chest or
> spine. At this point they felt it was a cancer in his column, most likely
> lymphoma. The Vet thought that he was quite young even given his FeLV
> positive status to have lymphoma, but given how fast he was becoming
> completely paralyzed, there were not many other diagnosis that fit the
> bill. The vet started him on Prednisolone and Clindamycin, and within hours
> he regained movement in his legs and was walking again. Yesterday he was
> jumping and scratching on his post again, and eating and drinking. Last
> night his behavior changed and he kept trying to hide which is very unlike
> him, however I thought that maybe he was just tired, he had gone from
> completely paralyzed to jumping in 3 days. But this morning it was apparent
> that he was not ok, he did eat after much encouragement, but has moved very
> very little. I have called the Vet and am waiting to hear back but I'm not
> optimistic. Has anyone had this experience? I don't want to put him down if
> there is a chance he could come back but he is hardly moving and seems like
> him trying to hide was him trying to find a place to pass away
> quietly. Batman is so young and he is the sweetest cat I have ever owned,
> and his brother can't get along with out him.  I will try anything to keep
> him alive but I want him to have a good quality life. Any suggestions would
> be appreciated.
>
> Also I apologize if I did not use this forum correctly. I wasn't sure if I
> emailed the group or how it works so I hope this does work.
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

Re: [Felvtalk] Batman Felv Positive Having Neurological issues.

[Shelley Theye]

Thanks Amani.  I agree with you.  

Shelley 


> On Oct 18, 2018, at 6:34 PM, Amani Oakley  wrote:
> 
> Hi Shelley. Thanks for clarifying. I really didn’t know that prednisolone 
> could have negative effects on the heart. However, I have had the experience 
> of a cat with a heart murmur. Eventually, after we had looked after her for a 
> while, the heart murmur disappeared.
>  
> However, if your cat pants after playing for a while, you are right that one 
> of the reasons may well be heart issues.
>  
> You obviously have a terrific heart to take in a feral like that and keep him 
> when you found he was positive. What a nice person.
>  
> Thanks for the info. Unfortunately, though, again, I kinda feel that in some 
> circumstances like FeLV, whether there are potential side-effects from some 
> of the meds, there are few choices and I would probably take the risk if my 
> cat was doing poorly (as mine was). Thank you though for that information, 
> which I definitely did not know. I will have to keep it in mind.
>  
> Amani
>  
> From: Felvtalk  On Behalf Of Shelley 
> Theye
> Sent: October 18, 2018 6:27 PM
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Batman Felv Positive Having Neurological issues.
>  
> Hi Amani,
>  
> I was speaking about corticosteroids- Prednisone or Prednisolone.  Sorry for 
> any confusion.
> I have a cat, Jack, with heart disease who also has IBD so he cannot have 
> steroids.
> I believe there is one, which is called Budesonide?  that might act more 
> locally in the intestines so 
> it could be a bit safer if a cat has heart disease.  
>  
> My FeLV positive cat Leo, who became sick quickly back in 2014, was diagnosed 
> with both Lymphoma and 
> leukemia, his WBC count was through the roof, in the 150,000’s??  I would 
> have to go back and look at the notes.
> He was @ 5 years old. I trapped him in a neighbor’s yard to TNR, but 
> he tested positive so I kept him. Anyway, after the vet visit, for mainly 
> inappetence, he went downhill
> very quickly and I thought the stress of the visit, x-rays, fluids, and pred. 
> might have sent him into heart failure too.
> That was a guess on my part.  He was an adult feral that I tamed once he 
> tested positive for FeLV, and he was so afraid 
> out of his environment that I never took him to get an echo.  I only 
> suspected it as a possibility because he 
> had a murmur when he was neutered, though not later, and would pant when 
> playing too much with feather toy.
> Something I will never know and it has always eaten away at me.
>  
> I am not in this group much anymore, but read the messages, and just wanted 
> to mention to Katy, just in case.
> Hopefully not that.
>  
> Shelley 
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
> 
> 
> 
> On Oct 18, 2018, at 4:59 PM, Amani Oakley  <mailto:aoak...@oakleylegal.com>> wrote:
>  
> Sorry Shelley – my email below should have read IT ISN”T prednisolone. . . 
>  
> Amani
>  
> From: Felvtalk  <mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org>> On Behalf Of Amani Oakley
> Sent: October 18, 2018 4:57 PM
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org <mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org>
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Batman Felv Positive Having Neurological issues.
>  
> Hi Shelley. Are you speaking about anabolic steroids or corticosteroids? And 
> what type in particular? I think that there may be a particular steroid which 
> has been linked with heart issues sometimes but it is prednisolone (which is 
> a corticosteroid) and it isn’t Winstrol (which is an anabolic steroid).
>  
> Amani
>  
> From: Felvtalk  <mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org>> On Behalf Of Shelley Theye
> Sent: October 18, 2018 4:29 PM
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org <mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org>
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Batman Felv Positive Having Neurological issues.
>  
> Hi Katy,
>  
> So sorry that Batman is going through this!
>  
> Did they look at Batman’s heart while he was at the vet hospital?  
> Specifically did they do an echocardiogram?  I am guessing that they had no 
> reason to with his initial symptoms so they probably didn’t?
>  
> Maybe he has heart disease that the steroids have exacerbated... Young cats 
> can have it and not have any outward symptoms.  Steroids are contraindicated 
> with heart problems.  I think there is one type that can be used, but it is 
> not usually given first.  
>  
> Just throwing this out there just in case.  Steroids could hurt his heart if 
> he has undiagnosed heart problem and maybe cause him to act like.
> Not to scare you, just to get him treated for it if it is that.
>  
> Shelley   
>  
>  
>  
&

Re: [Felvtalk] Batman Felv Positive Having Neurological issues.

[Amani Oakley]

Hi Shelley. Thanks for clarifying. I really didn’t know that prednisolone could 
have negative effects on the heart. However, I have had the experience of a cat 
with a heart murmur. Eventually, after we had looked after her for a while, the 
heart murmur disappeared.

However, if your cat pants after playing for a while, you are right that one of 
the reasons may well be heart issues.

You obviously have a terrific heart to take in a feral like that and keep him 
when you found he was positive. What a nice person.

Thanks for the info. Unfortunately, though, again, I kinda feel that in some 
circumstances like FeLV, whether there are potential side-effects from some of 
the meds, there are few choices and I would probably take the risk if my cat 
was doing poorly (as mine was). Thank you though for that information, which I 
definitely did not know. I will have to keep it in mind.

Amani

From: Felvtalk  On Behalf Of Shelley Theye
Sent: October 18, 2018 6:27 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Batman Felv Positive Having Neurological issues.

Hi Amani,

I was speaking about corticosteroids- Prednisone or Prednisolone.  Sorry for 
any confusion.
I have a cat, Jack, with heart disease who also has IBD so he cannot have 
steroids.
I believe there is one, which is called Budesonide?  that might act more 
locally in the intestines so
it could be a bit safer if a cat has heart disease.

My FeLV positive cat Leo, who became sick quickly back in 2014, was diagnosed 
with both Lymphoma and
leukemia, his WBC count was through the roof, in the 150,000’s??  I would have 
to go back and look at the notes.
He was @ 5 years old. I trapped him in a neighbor’s yard to TNR, but
he tested positive so I kept him. Anyway, after the vet visit, for mainly 
inappetence, he went downhill
very quickly and I thought the stress of the visit, x-rays, fluids, and pred. 
might have sent him into heart failure too.
That was a guess on my part.  He was an adult feral that I tamed once he tested 
positive for FeLV, and he was so afraid
out of his environment that I never took him to get an echo.  I only suspected 
it as a possibility because he
had a murmur when he was neutered, though not later, and would pant when 
playing too much with feather toy.
Something I will never know and it has always eaten away at me.

I am not in this group much anymore, but read the messages, and just wanted to 
mention to Katy, just in case.
Hopefully not that.

Shelley








On Oct 18, 2018, at 4:59 PM, Amani Oakley 
mailto:aoak...@oakleylegal.com>> wrote:

Sorry Shelley – my email below should have read IT ISN”T prednisolone. . .

Amani

From: Felvtalk 
mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org>>
 On Behalf Of Amani Oakley
Sent: October 18, 2018 4:57 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org<mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org>
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Batman Felv Positive Having Neurological issues.

Hi Shelley. Are you speaking about anabolic steroids or corticosteroids? And 
what type in particular? I think that there may be a particular steroid which 
has been linked with heart issues sometimes but it is prednisolone (which is a 
corticosteroid) and it isn’t Winstrol (which is an anabolic steroid).

Amani

From: Felvtalk 
mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org>>
 On Behalf Of Shelley Theye
Sent: October 18, 2018 4:29 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org<mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org>
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Batman Felv Positive Having Neurological issues.

Hi Katy,

So sorry that Batman is going through this!

Did they look at Batman’s heart while he was at the vet hospital?  Specifically 
did they do an echocardiogram?  I am guessing that they had no reason to with 
his initial symptoms so they probably didn’t?

Maybe he has heart disease that the steroids have exacerbated... Young cats can 
have it and not have any outward symptoms.  Steroids are contraindicated with 
heart problems.  I think there is one type that can be used, but it is not 
usually given first.

Just throwing this out there just in case.  Steroids could hurt his heart if he 
has undiagnosed heart problem and maybe cause him to act like.
Not to scare you, just to get him treated for it if it is that.

Shelley



On Oct 18, 2018, at 3:27 PM, Katy Brown 
mailto:ktbrow...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Amani,
That is very insightful. I’m not convinced he has lymphoma because his decline 
was so rapid. Within hours he went from walking to having completely rigid 
legs. And today he is starting to decline. I’m wondering if there is something 
else I can give him besides the 5 mg of Prednisolone and the Clindamycin.
The vet said he he keeps declining we could do another form of Chemo which is 
very aggressive and has other side affects and would be a Hail Mary to buy him 
another few days?
I’m just not convinced he has cancer. Even though he is FeLV positive he is 
young to develop a cancer?
Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 18, 2018, at 12

Re: [Felvtalk] Batman Felv Positive Having Neurological issues.

[Shelley Theye]

Hi Amani,

I was speaking about corticosteroids- Prednisone or Prednisolone.  Sorry for 
any confusion.
I have a cat, Jack, with heart disease who also has IBD so he cannot have 
steroids.
I believe there is one, which is called Budesonide?  that might act more 
locally in the intestines so 
it could be a bit safer if a cat has heart disease.  

My FeLV positive cat Leo, who became sick quickly back in 2014, was diagnosed 
with both Lymphoma and 
leukemia, his WBC count was through the roof, in the 150,000’s??  I would have 
to go back and look at the notes.
He was @ 5 years old. I trapped him in a neighbor’s yard to TNR, but 
he tested positive so I kept him. Anyway, after the vet visit, for mainly 
inappetence, he went downhill
very quickly and I thought the stress of the visit, x-rays, fluids, and pred. 
might have sent him into heart failure too.
That was a guess on my part.  He was an adult feral that I tamed once he tested 
positive for FeLV, and he was so afraid 
out of his environment that I never took him to get an echo.  I only suspected 
it as a possibility because he 
had a murmur when he was neutered, though not later, and would pant when 
playing too much with feather toy.
Something I will never know and it has always eaten away at me.

I am not in this group much anymore, but read the messages, and just wanted to 
mention to Katy, just in case.
Hopefully not that.

Shelley 








> On Oct 18, 2018, at 4:59 PM, Amani Oakley  wrote:
> 
> Sorry Shelley – my email below should have read IT ISN”T prednisolone. . . 
>  
> Amani
>  
> From: Felvtalk  <mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org>> On Behalf Of Amani Oakley
> Sent: October 18, 2018 4:57 PM
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org <mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org>
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Batman Felv Positive Having Neurological issues.
>  
> Hi Shelley. Are you speaking about anabolic steroids or corticosteroids? And 
> what type in particular? I think that there may be a particular steroid which 
> has been linked with heart issues sometimes but it is prednisolone (which is 
> a corticosteroid) and it isn’t Winstrol (which is an anabolic steroid).
>  
> Amani
>  
> From: Felvtalk  <mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org>> On Behalf Of Shelley Theye
> Sent: October 18, 2018 4:29 PM
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org <mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org>
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Batman Felv Positive Having Neurological issues.
>  
> Hi Katy,
>  
> So sorry that Batman is going through this!
>  
> Did they look at Batman’s heart while he was at the vet hospital?  
> Specifically did they do an echocardiogram?  I am guessing that they had no 
> reason to with his initial symptoms so they probably didn’t?
>  
> Maybe he has heart disease that the steroids have exacerbated... Young cats 
> can have it and not have any outward symptoms.  Steroids are contraindicated 
> with heart problems.  I think there is one type that can be used, but it is 
> not usually given first.  
>  
> Just throwing this out there just in case.  Steroids could hurt his heart if 
> he has undiagnosed heart problem and maybe cause him to act like.
> Not to scare you, just to get him treated for it if it is that.
>  
> Shelley   
>  
>  
>  
> 
> On Oct 18, 2018, at 3:27 PM, Katy Brown  <mailto:ktbrow...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>  
> Amani,
> That is very insightful. I’m not convinced he has lymphoma because his 
> decline was so rapid. Within hours he went from walking to having completely 
> rigid legs. And today he is starting to decline. I’m wondering if there is 
> something else I can give him besides the 5 mg of Prednisolone and the 
> Clindamycin.
> The vet said he he keeps declining we could do another form of Chemo which is 
> very aggressive and has other side affects and would be a Hail Mary to buy 
> him another few days? 
> I’m just not convinced he has cancer. Even though he is FeLV positive he is 
> young to develop a cancer? 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Oct 18, 2018, at 12:54 PM, Amani Oakley  <mailto:aoakley@oakleylegalcom>> wrote:
> 
> I actually had a few similar experiences. Once it involved two very young 
> kittens. Once it involved a cat about a year old. In my opinion, the two 
> different experiences had two different causative agents, and at the risk of 
> boring you silly, I will try to explain both. Neither, by the way, was well 
> understood by the vets, leading me again to the inevitable conclusion that 
> cat health is very poorly studied (no where near dog health) and because cats 
> respond different to disease and medication, (whereas dogs respond very much 
> like people), then science and medicine is way behind in understanding cats.
>  
> With respect to the kittens, 

Re: [Felvtalk] Batman Felv Positive Having Neurological issues.

[Amani Oakley]

Sorry Shelley – my email below should have read IT ISN”T prednisolone. . .

Amani

From: Felvtalk  On Behalf Of Amani Oakley
Sent: October 18, 2018 4:57 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Batman Felv Positive Having Neurological issues.

Hi Shelley. Are you speaking about anabolic steroids or corticosteroids? And 
what type in particular? I think that there may be a particular steroid which 
has been linked with heart issues sometimes but it is prednisolone (which is a 
corticosteroid) and it isn’t Winstrol (which is an anabolic steroid).

Amani

From: Felvtalk 
mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org>>
 On Behalf Of Shelley Theye
Sent: October 18, 2018 4:29 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org<mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org>
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Batman Felv Positive Having Neurological issues.

Hi Katy,

So sorry that Batman is going through this!

Did they look at Batman’s heart while he was at the vet hospital?  Specifically 
did they do an echocardiogram?  I am guessing that they had no reason to with 
his initial symptoms so they probably didn’t?

Maybe he has heart disease that the steroids have exacerbated... Young cats can 
have it and not have any outward symptoms.  Steroids are contraindicated with 
heart problems.  I think there is one type that can be used, but it is not 
usually given first.

Just throwing this out there just in case.  Steroids could hurt his heart if he 
has undiagnosed heart problem and maybe cause him to act like.
Not to scare you, just to get him treated for it if it is that.

Shelley



On Oct 18, 2018, at 3:27 PM, Katy Brown 
mailto:ktbrow...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Amani,
That is very insightful. I’m not convinced he has lymphoma because his decline 
was so rapid. Within hours he went from walking to having completely rigid 
legs. And today he is starting to decline. I’m wondering if there is something 
else I can give him besides the 5 mg of Prednisolone and the Clindamycin.
The vet said he he keeps declining we could do another form of Chemo which is 
very aggressive and has other side affects and would be a Hail Mary to buy him 
another few days?
I’m just not convinced he has cancer. Even though he is FeLV positive he is 
young to develop a cancer?
Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 18, 2018, at 12:54 PM, Amani Oakley 
mailto:aoakley@oakleylegalcom>> wrote:
I actually had a few similar experiences. Once it involved two very young 
kittens. Once it involved a cat about a year old. In my opinion, the two 
different experiences had two different causative agents, and at the risk of 
boring you silly, I will try to explain both. Neither, by the way, was well 
understood by the vets, leading me again to the inevitable conclusion that cat 
health is very poorly studied (no where near dog health) and because cats 
respond different to disease and medication, (whereas dogs respond very much 
like people), then science and medicine is way behind in understanding cats.

With respect to the kittens, it was my view that they actually had (and one of 
them still has) Lyme disease. The area I picked them up was one very well-known 
to be endemic for Lyme disease. They had an alternating lameness – once picking 
up one paw which seemed very swollen and sore – and then next day, picking up 
the other paw. I looked this up and saw that this alternating lameness was 
described in dogs with Lyme disease. However, my vet believed that it might be 
calici virus. I didn’t agree with her, but let her treat for calici virus 
(including vaccination). The acute phase of the response seemed to be limited 
in time, and both kittens seemed to get better on their own. However, their 
brother lapsed into a coma – was literally unresponsive for hours while I sat 
up with him. I didn’t know what to do, and my view was that either there was 
inflammation of the meninges (sac surrounding the brain) or an inflammation of 
the brain itself, causing increased intracranial pressure which might also 
result in loss of consciousness. I superdosed him with transdermal prednisone, 
took him to bed with me and kept checking him for hours. Then, suddenly, at 
about 4 in the morning, he just bounded awake, and began playing and 
galavanting all over the bed. Meanwhile, though, one of his two sisters has 
never been the same. She lost HUGE amounts of weight, and even now, as a 2+ 
year old cat, she weighs less than many kittens and she is all bones. I have 
been treating her with a combination of Winstrol, Doxycycline, high prednisone 
doses and magnesium (her muscles don’t work right – like they are constantly 
spastic, and she walks in a funny tip toe way, and has poor coordination 
jumping on things and going up stairs, etc.) Anyhow, she is starting to get 
better, starting to put on weight and starting to walk better. I am convinced 
this was and is Lyme disease, though scientists and vets say that cats don’t 
get it. I don’t know how they know this, becau

Re: [Felvtalk] Batman Felv Positive Having Neurological issues.

[Amani Oakley]

Hi Shelley. Are you speaking about anabolic steroids or corticosteroids? And 
what type in particular? I think that there may be a particular steroid which 
has been linked with heart issues sometimes but it is prednisolone (which is a 
corticosteroid) and it isn’t Winstrol (which is an anabolic steroid).

Amani

From: Felvtalk  On Behalf Of Shelley Theye
Sent: October 18, 2018 4:29 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Batman Felv Positive Having Neurological issues.

Hi Katy,

So sorry that Batman is going through this!

Did they look at Batman’s heart while he was at the vet hospital?  Specifically 
did they do an echocardiogram?  I am guessing that they had no reason to with 
his initial symptoms so they probably didn’t?

Maybe he has heart disease that the steroids have exacerbated... Young cats can 
have it and not have any outward symptoms.  Steroids are contraindicated with 
heart problems.  I think there is one type that can be used, but it is not 
usually given first.

Just throwing this out there just in case.  Steroids could hurt his heart if he 
has undiagnosed heart problem and maybe cause him to act like.
Not to scare you, just to get him treated for it if it is that.

Shelley




On Oct 18, 2018, at 3:27 PM, Katy Brown 
mailto:ktbrow...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Amani,
That is very insightful. I’m not convinced he has lymphoma because his decline 
was so rapid. Within hours he went from walking to having completely rigid 
legs. And today he is starting to decline. I’m wondering if there is something 
else I can give him besides the 5 mg of Prednisolone and the Clindamycin.
The vet said he he keeps declining we could do another form of Chemo which is 
very aggressive and has other side affects and would be a Hail Mary to buy him 
another few days?
I’m just not convinced he has cancer. Even though he is FeLV positive he is 
young to develop a cancer?
Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 18, 2018, at 12:54 PM, Amani Oakley 
mailto:aoakley@oakleylegalcom>> wrote:
I actually had a few similar experiences. Once it involved two very young 
kittens. Once it involved a cat about a year old. In my opinion, the two 
different experiences had two different causative agents, and at the risk of 
boring you silly, I will try to explain both. Neither, by the way, was well 
understood by the vets, leading me again to the inevitable conclusion that cat 
health is very poorly studied (no where near dog health) and because cats 
respond different to disease and medication, (whereas dogs respond very much 
like people), then science and medicine is way behind in understanding cats.

With respect to the kittens, it was my view that they actually had (and one of 
them still has) Lyme disease. The area I picked them up was one very well-known 
to be endemic for Lyme disease. They had an alternating lameness – once picking 
up one paw which seemed very swollen and sore – and then next day, picking up 
the other paw. I looked this up and saw that this alternating lameness was 
described in dogs with Lyme disease. However, my vet believed that it might be 
calici virus. I didn’t agree with her, but let her treat for calici virus 
(including vaccination). The acute phase of the response seemed to be limited 
in time, and both kittens seemed to get better on their own. However, their 
brother lapsed into a coma – was literally unresponsive for hours while I sat 
up with him. I didn’t know what to do, and my view was that either there was 
inflammation of the meninges (sac surrounding the brain) or an inflammation of 
the brain itself, causing increased intracranial pressure which might also 
result in loss of consciousness. I superdosed him with transdermal prednisone, 
took him to bed with me and kept checking him for hours. Then, suddenly, at 
about 4 in the morning, he just bounded awake, and began playing and 
galavanting all over the bed. Meanwhile, though, one of his two sisters has 
never been the same. She lost HUGE amounts of weight, and even now, as a 2+ 
year old cat, she weighs less than many kittens and she is all bones. I have 
been treating her with a combination of Winstrol, Doxycycline, high prednisone 
doses and magnesium (her muscles don’t work right – like they are constantly 
spastic, and she walks in a funny tip toe way, and has poor coordination 
jumping on things and going up stairs, etc.) Anyhow, she is starting to get 
better, starting to put on weight and starting to walk better. I am convinced 
this was and is Lyme disease, though scientists and vets say that cats don’t 
get it. I don’t know how they know this, because they DO NOT TEST cats for it.

Story number two involves a kitten I got who was described as a “wobbly” kitten 
and it was assumed that his mom had suffered a viral infection when he was in 
utero, which can result in this type of neurological damage (and it can be much 
worse). However, when he was very little, he suddenly and without warning, 
decided to s

Re: [Felvtalk] Batman Felv Positive Having Neurological issues.

[Shelley Theye]

Hi Katy,

So sorry that Batman is going through this!

Did they look at Batman’s heart while he was at the vet hospital?  Specifically 
did they do an echocardiogram?  I am guessing that they had no reason to with 
his initial symptoms so they probably didn’t?

Maybe he has heart disease that the steroids have exacerbated... Young cats can 
have it and not have any outward symptoms.  Steroids are contraindicated with 
heart problems.  I think there is one type that can be used, but it is not 
usually given first.  

Just throwing this out there just in case.  Steroids could hurt his heart if he 
has undiagnosed heart problem and maybe cause him to act like.
Not to scare you, just to get him treated for it if it is that.

Shelley   



> On Oct 18, 2018, at 3:27 PM, Katy Brown  wrote:
> 
> Amani,
> That is very insightful. I’m not convinced he has lymphoma because his 
> decline was so rapid. Within hours he went from walking to having completely 
> rigid legs. And today he is starting to decline. I’m wondering if there is 
> something else I can give him besides the 5 mg of Prednisolone and the 
> Clindamycin.
> The vet said he he keeps declining we could do another form of Chemo which is 
> very aggressive and has other side affects and would be a Hail Mary to buy 
> him another few days? 
> I’m just not convinced he has cancer. Even though he is FeLV positive he is 
> young to develop a cancer? 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Oct 18, 2018, at 12:54 PM, Amani Oakley  > wrote:
> 
>> I actually had a few similar experiences. Once it involved two very young 
>> kittens. Once it involved a cat about a year old. In my opinion, the two 
>> different experiences had two different causative agents, and at the risk of 
>> boring you silly, I will try to explain both. Neither, by the way, was well 
>> understood by the vets, leading me again to the inevitable conclusion that 
>> cat health is very poorly studied (no where near dog health) and because 
>> cats respond different to disease and medication, (whereas dogs respond very 
>> much like people), then science and medicine is way behind in understanding 
>> cats.
>>  
>> With respect to the kittens, it was my view that they actually had (and one 
>> of them still has) Lyme disease. The area I picked them up was one very 
>> well-known to be endemic for Lyme disease. They had an alternating lameness 
>> – once picking up one paw which seemed very swollen and sore – and then next 
>> day, picking up the other paw. I looked this up and saw that this 
>> alternating lameness was described in dogs with Lyme disease. However, my 
>> vet believed that it might be calici virus. I didn’t agree with her, but let 
>> her treat for calici virus (including vaccination). The acute phase of the 
>> response seemed to be limited in time, and both kittens seemed to get better 
>> on their own. However, their brother lapsed into a coma – was literally 
>> unresponsive for hours while I sat up with him. I didn’t know what to do, 
>> and my view was that either there was inflammation of the meninges (sac 
>> surrounding the brain) or an inflammation of the brain itself, causing 
>> increased intracranial pressure which might also result in loss of 
>> consciousness. I superdosed him with transdermal prednisone, took him to bed 
>> with me and kept checking him for hours. Then, suddenly, at about 4 in the 
>> morning, he just bounded awake, and began playing and galavanting all over 
>> the bed. Meanwhile, though, one of his two sisters has never been the same. 
>> She lost HUGE amounts of weight, and even now, as a 2+ year old cat, she 
>> weighs less than many kittens and she is all bones. I have been treating her 
>> with a combination of Winstrol, Doxycycline, high prednisone doses and 
>> magnesium (her muscles don’t work right – like they are constantly spastic, 
>> and she walks in a funny tip toe way, and has poor coordination jumping on 
>> things and going up stairs, etc.) Anyhow, she is starting to get better, 
>> starting to put on weight and starting to walk better. I am convinced this 
>> was and is Lyme disease, though scientists and vets say that cats don’t get 
>> it. I don’t know how they know this, because they DO NOT TEST cats for it.
>>  
>> Story number two involves a kitten I got who was described as a “wobbly” 
>> kitten and it was assumed that his mom had suffered a viral infection when 
>> he was in utero, which can result in this type of neurological damage (and 
>> it can be much worse). However, when he was very little, he suddenly and 
>> without warning, decided to squat and pee right in the middle of our bed, 
>> and he had never done this before. He was looking straight at me and I felt 
>> that he didn’t know why he was doing what he was doing. Not too long after 
>> (a few weeks or maybe a month), he started showing some very alarming 
>> neurological symptoms, including a loss of muscle control in the back end. 
>> 

Re: [Felvtalk] Batman Felv Positive Having Neurological issues.

[Amani Oakley]

I think you’re right that the decline is way too fast to be accounted for, by 
cancer. If it were me, I would give him a high dose of prednisone – 20 mg for 
maybe two days, and then drop back to 5 mg. I would also try him on the 
Winstrol, but in the very short-term, I think it may be the prednisolone which 
might do the best good. However, of course, you’re shooting in the dark because 
it is not clear what your target is. Try the high dose prednisone for a few 
days and see if he responds.

I don’t think that the chemo makes sense if the vet hasn’t identified a tumour 
and of course, the side effects are likely to worsen your cat’s condition. The 
good thing about what I am suggesting is that it may or may not work, but it is 
unlikely to leave him in a worse state, which cannot be said for the chemo. I 
would therefore try the prednisolone and Winstrol before I agreed to more chemo 
if it were my cat.

Amani

From: Felvtalk  On Behalf Of Katy Brown
Sent: October 18, 2018 3:28 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Batman Felv Positive Having Neurological issues.

Amani,
That is very insightful. I’m not convinced he has lymphoma because his decline 
was so rapid. Within hours he went from walking to having completely rigid 
legs. And today he is starting to decline. I’m wondering if there is something 
else I can give him besides the 5 mg of Prednisolone and the Clindamycin.
The vet said he he keeps declining we could do another form of Chemo which is 
very aggressive and has other side affects and would be a Hail Mary to buy him 
another few days?
I’m just not convinced he has cancer. Even though he is FeLV positive he is 
young to develop a cancer?
Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 18, 2018, at 12:54 PM, Amani Oakley 
mailto:aoak...@oakleylegal.com>> wrote:
I actually had a few similar experiences. Once it involved two very young 
kittens. Once it involved a cat about a year old. In my opinion, the two 
different experiences had two different causative agents, and at the risk of 
boring you silly, I will try to explain both. Neither, by the way, was well 
understood by the vets, leading me again to the inevitable conclusion that cat 
health is very poorly studied (no where near dog health) and because cats 
respond different to disease and medication, (whereas dogs respond very much 
like people), then science and medicine is way behind in understanding cats.

With respect to the kittens, it was my view that they actually had (and one of 
them still has) Lyme disease. The area I picked them up was one very well-known 
to be endemic for Lyme disease. They had an alternating lameness – once picking 
up one paw which seemed very swollen and sore – and then next day, picking up 
the other paw. I looked this up and saw that this alternating lameness was 
described in dogs with Lyme disease. However, my vet believed that it might be 
calici virus. I didn’t agree with her, but let her treat for calici virus 
(including vaccination). The acute phase of the response seemed to be limited 
in time, and both kittens seemed to get better on their own. However, their 
brother lapsed into a coma – was literally unresponsive for hours while I sat 
up with him. I didn’t know what to do, and my view was that either there was 
inflammation of the meninges (sac surrounding the brain) or an inflammation of 
the brain itself, causing increased intracranial pressure which might also 
result in loss of consciousness. I superdosed him with transdermal prednisone, 
took him to bed with me and kept checking him for hours. Then, suddenly, at 
about 4 in the morning, he just bounded awake, and began playing and 
galavanting all over the bed. Meanwhile, though, one of his two sisters has 
never been the same. She lost HUGE amounts of weight, and even now, as a 2+ 
year old cat, she weighs less than many kittens and she is all bones. I have 
been treating her with a combination of Winstrol, Doxycycline, high prednisone 
doses and magnesium (her muscles don’t work right – like they are constantly 
spastic, and she walks in a funny tip toe way, and has poor coordination 
jumping on things and going up stairs, etc.) Anyhow, she is starting to get 
better, starting to put on weight and starting to walk better. I am convinced 
this was and is Lyme disease, though scientists and vets say that cats don’t 
get it. I don’t know how they know this, because they DO NOT TEST cats for it.

Story number two involves a kitten I got who was described as a “wobbly” kitten 
and it was assumed that his mom had suffered a viral infection when he was in 
utero, which can result in this type of neurological damage (and it can be much 
worse). However, when he was very little, he suddenly and without warning, 
decided to squat and pee right in the middle of our bed, and he had never done 
this before. He was looking straight at me and I felt that he didn’t know why 
he was doing what he was doing. Not too long after (a few weeks or

Re: [Felvtalk] Batman Felv Positive Having Neurological issues.

[Katy Brown]

Amani,
That is very insightful. I’m not convinced he has lymphoma because his decline 
was so rapid. Within hours he went from walking to having completely rigid 
legs. And today he is starting to decline. I’m wondering if there is something 
else I can give him besides the 5 mg of Prednisolone and the Clindamycin.
The vet said he he keeps declining we could do another form of Chemo which is 
very aggressive and has other side affects and would be a Hail Mary to buy him 
another few days? 
I’m just not convinced he has cancer. Even though he is FeLV positive he is 
young to develop a cancer? 
Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 18, 2018, at 12:54 PM, Amani Oakley  wrote:
> 
> I actually had a few similar experiences. Once it involved two very young 
> kittens. Once it involved a cat about a year old. In my opinion, the two 
> different experiences had two different causative agents, and at the risk of 
> boring you silly, I will try to explain both. Neither, by the way, was well 
> understood by the vets, leading me again to the inevitable conclusion that 
> cat health is very poorly studied (no where near dog health) and because cats 
> respond different to disease and medication, (whereas dogs respond very much 
> like people), then science and medicine is way behind in understanding cats.
>  
> With respect to the kittens, it was my view that they actually had (and one 
> of them still has) Lyme disease. The area I picked them up was one very 
> well-known to be endemic for Lyme disease. They had an alternating lameness – 
> once picking up one paw which seemed very swollen and sore – and then next 
> day, picking up the other paw. I looked this up and saw that this alternating 
> lameness was described in dogs with Lyme disease. However, my vet believed 
> that it might be calici virus. I didn’t agree with her, but let her treat for 
> calici virus (including vaccination). The acute phase of the response seemed 
> to be limited in time, and both kittens seemed to get better on their own. 
> However, their brother lapsed into a coma – was literally unresponsive for 
> hours while I sat up with him. I didn’t know what to do, and my view was that 
> either there was inflammation of the meninges (sac surrounding the brain) or 
> an inflammation of the brain itself, causing increased intracranial pressure 
> which might also result in loss of consciousness. I superdosed him with 
> transdermal prednisone, took him to bed with me and kept checking him for 
> hours. Then, suddenly, at about 4 in the morning, he just bounded awake, and 
> began playing and galavanting all over the bed. Meanwhile, though, one of his 
> two sisters has never been the same. She lost HUGE amounts of weight, and 
> even now, as a 2+ year old cat, she weighs less than many kittens and she is 
> all bones. I have been treating her with a combination of Winstrol, 
> Doxycycline, high prednisone doses and magnesium (her muscles don’t work 
> right – like they are constantly spastic, and she walks in a funny tip toe 
> way, and has poor coordination jumping on things and going up stairs, etc.) 
> Anyhow, she is starting to get better, starting to put on weight and starting 
> to walk better. I am convinced this was and is Lyme disease, though 
> scientists and vets say that cats don’t get it. I don’t know how they know 
> this, because they DO NOT TEST cats for it.
>  
> Story number two involves a kitten I got who was described as a “wobbly” 
> kitten and it was assumed that his mom had suffered a viral infection when he 
> was in utero, which can result in this type of neurological damage (and it 
> can be much worse). However, when he was very little, he suddenly and without 
> warning, decided to squat and pee right in the middle of our bed, and he had 
> never done this before. He was looking straight at me and I felt that he 
> didn’t know why he was doing what he was  doing. Not too long after (a few 
> weeks or maybe a month), he started showing some very alarming neurological 
> symptoms, including a loss of muscle control in the back end. His rectum 
> seemed not tight but loose and stool just “fell out” rather than being pushed 
> out. His back legs in particular also became very very weak, and he developed 
> a “tripod stance” – both back legs together – his back end would sway and he 
> would fall down. My knowledge with humans is that this occurs when there is 
> damage to nerves in the spinal column, or pressure on them from a herniated 
> disc, or something like that (cauda equina syndrome). I took him to the 
> emergency clinic, but I had already started him on Winstrol and Prednisolone, 
> assuming that the Prednisolone would help with reduction of swelling in the 
> spinal canal and thus take pressure off the affected nerves, and the Winstrol 
> might help in healing whatever injury there was in the spinal column. By the 
> time they could do an MRI on him, he was regaining all function and his gait 
> had become normal. 

Re: [Felvtalk] Batman Felv Positive Having Neurological issues.

[Amani Oakley]

I actually had a few similar experiences. Once it involved two very young 
kittens. Once it involved a cat about a year old. In my opinion, the two 
different experiences had two different causative agents, and at the risk of 
boring you silly, I will try to explain both. Neither, by the way, was well 
understood by the vets, leading me again to the inevitable conclusion that cat 
health is very poorly studied (no where near dog health) and because cats 
respond different to disease and medication, (whereas dogs respond very much 
like people), then science and medicine is way behind in understanding cats.

With respect to the kittens, it was my view that they actually had (and one of 
them still has) Lyme disease. The area I picked them up was one very well-known 
to be endemic for Lyme disease. They had an alternating lameness – once picking 
up one paw which seemed very swollen and sore – and then next day, picking up 
the other paw. I looked this up and saw that this alternating lameness was 
described in dogs with Lyme disease. However, my vet believed that it might be 
calici virus. I didn’t agree with her, but let her treat for calici virus 
(including vaccination). The acute phase of the response seemed to be limited 
in time, and both kittens seemed to get better on their own. However, their 
brother lapsed into a coma – was literally unresponsive for hours while I sat 
up with him. I didn’t know what to do, and my view was that either there was 
inflammation of the meninges (sac surrounding the brain) or an inflammation of 
the brain itself, causing increased intracranial pressure which might also 
result in loss of consciousness. I superdosed him with transdermal prednisone, 
took him to bed with me and kept checking him for hours. Then, suddenly, at 
about 4 in the morning, he just bounded awake, and began playing and 
galavanting all over the bed. Meanwhile, though, one of his two sisters has 
never been the same. She lost HUGE amounts of weight, and even now, as a 2+ 
year old cat, she weighs less than many kittens and she is all bones. I have 
been treating her with a combination of Winstrol, Doxycycline, high prednisone 
doses and magnesium (her muscles don’t work right – like they are constantly 
spastic, and she walks in a funny tip toe way, and has poor coordination 
jumping on things and going up stairs, etc.) Anyhow, she is starting to get 
better, starting to put on weight and starting to walk better. I am convinced 
this was and is Lyme disease, though scientists and vets say that cats don’t 
get it. I don’t know how they know this, because they DO NOT TEST cats for it.

Story number two involves a kitten I got who was described as a “wobbly” kitten 
and it was assumed that his mom had suffered a viral infection when he was in 
utero, which can result in this type of neurological damage (and it can be much 
worse). However, when he was very little, he suddenly and without warning, 
decided to squat and pee right in the middle of our bed, and he had never done 
this before. He was looking straight at me and I felt that he didn’t know why 
he was doing what he was doing. Not too long after (a few weeks or maybe a 
month), he started showing some very alarming neurological symptoms, including 
a loss of muscle control in the back end. His rectum seemed not tight but loose 
and stool just “fell out” rather than being pushed out. His back legs in 
particular also became very very weak, and he developed a “tripod stance” – 
both back legs together – his back end would sway and he would fall down. My 
knowledge with humans is that this occurs when there is damage to nerves in the 
spinal column, or pressure on them from a herniated disc, or something like 
that (cauda equina syndrome). I took him to the emergency clinic, but I had 
already started him on Winstrol and Prednisolone, assuming that the 
Prednisolone would help with reduction of swelling in the spinal canal and thus 
take pressure off the affected nerves, and the Winstrol might help in healing 
whatever injury there was in the spinal column. By the time they could do an 
MRI on him, he was regaining all function and his gait had become normal. The 
MRI was inconclusive, with the vets thinking that they could possible see the 
remains of a lesion, right in the area where one would expect it to be to 
affect rectal control and muscle function of the back legs, but the lesion 
appeared to be healed over so they couldn’t tell if that was the cause or if 
the lesion was old or new.

It sounds to me like the prednisone you used in your case, has a similar 
effect. There was swelling somewhere, likely in the spinal column as you 
surmise, and the prednisone helped bring down the swelling.

Amani

From: Felvtalk  On Behalf Of katy brown
Sent: October 18, 2018 12:21 PM
To: Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: [Felvtalk] Batman Felv Positive Having Neurological issues.

Hello,
I have an amazing cat named Batman who a year ago as a kitten