Re: [Finale] Intellectual property
On 9 Aug 2003 at 9:13, Andrew Stiller wrote: the PIRATES and THEIR customers aren't gonna be inconvenienced by the copy protection, while we loyal MakeMusic customers ARE inconvenienced. -- David H. Bailey I had vowed to stay out of this argument, but I can't help but notice that this argument is identical to that used by the gun lobby to oppose any and all distribution control or safety legislation. Well, software doesn't kill people, *people* kill people. Right? As you can see, the analogy simply does not work, as the product in question is not inherently dangerous in the first place. -- David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Intellectual property
the PIRATES and THEIR customers aren't gonna be inconvenienced by the copy protection, while we loyal MakeMusic customers ARE inconvenienced. -- David H. Bailey I had vowed to stay out of this argument, but I can't help but notice that this argument is identical to that used by the gun lobby to oppose any and all distribution control or safety legislation. -- Andrew Stiller Kallisti Music Press http://home.netcom.com/~kallisti/ ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Intellectual property
Well, that's reassuring! (not!) Hands up, anybody who has ever owned copy-protected software (games included) where the company has gone out of business and the copy protection has gotten lost or destroyed? Are we all reassued now? Johannes Gebauer wrote: On 09.08.2003 2:31 Uhr, Craig Parmerlee wrote Come on Tobias, surely you are not assuming that MakeMusic is free from any dangers of bankruptcy, corruption, commercial interests?... never ever to go bust? Look at what happened to Opcode... Well that is the point, isn't it? They are putting a sensible protection scheme into place PRECISELY so they WON'T go bankrupt. Oh, Opcode's software was copy protected as well. Johannes -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Intellectual property
At 08:19 AM 8/9/03 -0500, Craig Parmerlee wrote: Frankly I can't imagine why anybody who intended to abide by the license would be complaining about this. It's for the same reason somebody might object to being searched while having nothing to hide, or to seat belt laws while always wearing one, or to gun-control laws while never owning one, or anti-terrorism laws while never engaging in it, or zoning laws while never violating them, or anti-drug laws while never using drugs ... because some issues are ethical ones and belong in the realm of liberty. Liberty as a concept is increasingly eroded in our presently corporate-centric society allows companies to engage in behavior that the government may not engage in, including unwarrented searches (urine tests), restrictions on outside behavior (no smoking even off duty), expropriation of thought (where all ideas belong to the company, not matter when they're written down during the period of employment), covenants against present *and* future behavior (NDAs are a good example), and any manner of actions that in the public sphere would be disallowed under Constitutional protections. Copy protection is at heart unethical because it contractually exploits those who obey its terms, making its buyers digital serfs on the intellectual property plantation. That's why I call such software victimware. Dennis ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Intellectual property
On 09.08.2003 14:01 Uhr, David H. Bailey wrote Hands up, anybody who has ever owned copy-protected software (games included) where the company has gone out of business and the copy protection has gotten lost or destroyed? Loads, actually. And even the best legal support will not change that. Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Intellectual property
Geez...you mean we've gone all the way to human liberties in this discussion?? That good ole MM could be part of a scheme by which our freedom might slowly erode without our knowing it? A music notation software company?? Give me a break, please. Since we know that some of the good folks at MM read this list, I'd just like to say thanks to you guys (and gals) for the obvious effort you put into what at first glance appears to be a dazzling upgrade. If you think there's an absence of gratitude among your most fervent (at least most vocal) users, I believe that's not the case. And let's hope that everyone realizes that the only true way we can influence MM's fiscal viablity, thus to create future products, is for us to *BUY* the product when it's worthy of buying, which I will do despite not being able to run OS X on my Mac. I'm with Craig: copy protection is a reasonable business decision. If there's a genuine need to improve how they implement it, then so be it. I suspect they're willing to learn from reasonably-expressed, intelligent suggestions. Let's give them the benefit of the doubt in that regard. We asked for these kinds of improvements and MM has delivered. There's no way to know, but it appears to be a healthy company and I hope it remains so. The alternative is awful to think about. Richard Huggins From: Craig Parmerlee [EMAIL PROTECTED] [...] What we have here is a business decision on the part of MakeMusic. I happen to agree with that business decision, and I have no doubt that the combination of an excellent release upgrade and a modest scheme to reduce the rampant piracy will prove to be a very wise business decision. For those who don't see the business decision that way, I respect that and you have the liberty to vote with your pocketbooks. ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Intellectual property
On 09.08.2003 2:31 Uhr, Craig Parmerlee wrote Come on Tobias, surely you are not assuming that MakeMusic is free from any dangers of bankruptcy, corruption, commercial interests?... never ever to go bust? Look at what happened to Opcode... Well that is the point, isn't it? They are putting a sensible protection scheme into place PRECISELY so they WON'T go bankrupt. Oh, Opcode's software was copy protected as well. Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Intellectual property
None of us on this list have advocated the piracy of IP nor have we advocated a freeloader mentality. And I do gripe about the Iraq war, and not surprisingly these days in the U.S., I often get the same sort of argument in favor of the Iraq war that you give in favor of copy protection for software -- it is necessary to shut down the evildoers of the world. Well, people are still blowing up cars outside embassies and hotels in spite of the supposed American victory in Iraq (are we really surprised?), and people are still gonna be pirating cracked copies of Finale and, wonder of wonders, the PIRATES and THEIR customers aren't gonna be inconvenienced by the copy protection, while we loyal MakeMusic customers ARE inconvenienced. Just as American soldiers have had to die and we still haven't stopped terrorism -- the terrorists STILL are working just as always, and the software pirates are STILL working just as always. I'm glad you feel so good about things. Nice to know you think software piracy will be stopped by copy protection. Seems like that argument has been making the rounds for as long as software has been around, and I wouldn't be surprised to find that copy protected software is actually pirated MORE often than non-copy protected software. Sort of like the war is necessary to stop war argument that the yahoos in the White House and the Pentagon keep trying to sell us. Craig Parmerlee wrote: At 11:36 PM 8/8/2003 +0200, Johannes Gebauer wrote: On 08.08.2003 18:59 Uhr, Tobias Giesen wrote I have had personal (albeit mostly via email) contact with many Coda employees, and I am deeply convinced that if there is one company that you can trust, it's them. Many Coda employees, including decision-makers and chief software developers are Finale users themselves. This product is very important to them. Unless all the key figures die at the same time, there should be no situation that will make Finale 2004 unusable for the next 2 decades or so. Come on Tobias, surely you are not assuming that MakeMusic is free from any dangers of bankruptcy, corruption, commercial interests?... never ever to go bust? Look at what happened to Opcode... Well that is the point, isn't it? They are putting a sensible protection scheme into place PRECISELY so they WON'T go bankrupt. I'm %%^#$% sick of the freeloader mentality that many people have today about copyrighted material and intellectual property. People seem to think I.P. just bubbles up out of the ground. The fatcats at MakeMusic come in every morning and gather up the thousands of lines of code that magically wrote and tested itself overnight, go out for a nice lunch of lobster and fine Chardonnay, write a couple of internal memos about how they can make quadrillions of dollars by screwing us, and then call it a day. Let's get real. If we want the product to have a future, then the freeloaders need to be shut down. If that means each of us has to make one internet session a year, surely that isn't too much for any of us to handle. If people want to bitch about something, try the Iraq war or something that deserves some bitching. ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale . -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Intellectual property
At 11:36 PM 8/8/2003 +0200, Johannes Gebauer wrote: On 08.08.2003 18:59 Uhr, Tobias Giesen wrote I have had personal (albeit mostly via email) contact with many Coda employees, and I am deeply convinced that if there is one company that you can trust, it's them. Many Coda employees, including decision-makers and chief software developers are Finale users themselves. This product is very important to them. Unless all the key figures die at the same time, there should be no situation that will make Finale 2004 unusable for the next 2 decades or so. Come on Tobias, surely you are not assuming that MakeMusic is free from any dangers of bankruptcy, corruption, commercial interests?... never ever to go bust? Look at what happened to Opcode... Well that is the point, isn't it? They are putting a sensible protection scheme into place PRECISELY so they WON'T go bankrupt. I'm %%^#$% sick of the freeloader mentality that many people have today about copyrighted material and intellectual property. People seem to think I.P. just bubbles up out of the ground. The fatcats at MakeMusic come in every morning and gather up the thousands of lines of code that magically wrote and tested itself overnight, go out for a nice lunch of lobster and fine Chardonnay, write a couple of internal memos about how they can make quadrillions of dollars by screwing us, and then call it a day. Let's get real. If we want the product to have a future, then the freeloaders need to be shut down. If that means each of us has to make one internet session a year, surely that isn't too much for any of us to handle. If people want to bitch about something, try the Iraq war or something that deserves some bitching. ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
