Re: [Firebird-docs] Scale of number and precision on floating data types

[Köditz , Martin]

Hi Helen,

yes i did.

Martin

-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: Helen Borrie [mailto:hele...@iinet.net.au] 
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 11. August 2016 09:26
An: Chatter regarding Firebird documentation
Betreff: Re: [Firebird-docs] Scale of number and precision on floating data 
types

Hello Martin,

Thursday, August 11, 2016, 6:00:52 PM, you wrote:

> The wording is OK. I will use it.

Did you catch Dmitry's correction?


> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: Dmitry Yemanov [mailto:firebi...@yandex.ru]
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 11. August 2016 07:19
> An: Chatter regarding Firebird documentation
> Betreff: Re: [Firebird-docs] Scale of number and precision on floating 
> data types

> 11.08.2016 06:38, Helen Borrie wrote:
>>
>> Floating point data types are stored in an IEEE 754 binary format 
>> that comprises sign, exponent and mantissa.  Precision is dynamic, 
>> corresponding to the physical storage format of the value, which may 
>> be up to 4 bytes for the FLOAT type and up to 8 bytes for DOUBLE 
>> PRECISION.

> It's exactly either 4 or 8 bytes, not "up to".


> Dmitry



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Re: [Firebird-docs] Scale of number and precision on floating data types

[Helen Borrie]

Hello Martin,

Thursday, August 11, 2016, 6:00:52 PM, you wrote:

> The wording is OK. I will use it.

Did you catch Dmitry's correction?


> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: Dmitry Yemanov [mailto:firebi...@yandex.ru] 
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 11. August 2016 07:19
> An: Chatter regarding Firebird documentation
> Betreff: Re: [Firebird-docs] Scale of number and precision on floating data 
> types

> 11.08.2016 06:38, Helen Borrie wrote:
>>
>> Floating point data types are stored in an IEEE 754 binary format that 
>> comprises sign, exponent and mantissa.  Precision is dynamic, 
>> corresponding to the physical storage format of the value, which may 
>> be up to 4 bytes for the FLOAT type and up to 8 bytes for DOUBLE 
>> PRECISION.

> It's exactly either 4 or 8 bytes, not "up to".


> Dmitry



> --
> What NetFlow Analyzer can do for you? Monitors network bandwidth
> and traffic patterns at an interface-level. Reveals which users,
> apps, and protocols are consuming the most bandwidth. Provides
> multi-vendor support for NetFlow, J-Flow, sFlow and other flows.
> Make informed decisions using capacity planning reports.
> http://sdm.link/zohodev2dev
> ___
> Firebird-docs mailing list
> Firebird-docs@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-docs

> --
> What NetFlow Analyzer can do for you? Monitors network bandwidth and traffic
> patterns at an interface-level. Reveals which users, apps, and protocols are
> consuming the most bandwidth. Provides multi-vendor support for NetFlow,
> J-Flow, sFlow and other flows. Make informed decisions using capacity 
> planning reports. http://sdm.link/zohodev2dev
> ___
> Firebird-docs mailing list
> Firebird-docs@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-docs



-- 
Kind regards,
 Helen Borrie


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Re: [Firebird-docs] Scale of number and precision on floating data types

[Köditz , Martin]

The wording is OK. I will use it.

Martin

-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: Dmitry Yemanov [mailto:firebi...@yandex.ru] 
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 11. August 2016 07:19
An: Chatter regarding Firebird documentation
Betreff: Re: [Firebird-docs] Scale of number and precision on floating data 
types

11.08.2016 06:38, Helen Borrie wrote:
>
> Floating point data types are stored in an IEEE 754 binary format that 
> comprises sign, exponent and mantissa.  Precision is dynamic, 
> corresponding to the physical storage format of the value, which may 
> be up to 4 bytes for the FLOAT type and up to 8 bytes for DOUBLE 
> PRECISION.

It's exactly either 4 or 8 bytes, not "up to".


Dmitry



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Re: [Firebird-docs] Scale of number and precision on floating data types

[Helen Borrie]

Hello Dmitry,

Thursday, August 11, 2016, 9:42:48 AM, you wrote:

> Nope, floating point numbers are stored completely different to the 
> fixed point numbers. FLOAT is single-precision format which occupies 4
> bytes. DOUBLE is double-precision format which occupies 8 bytes. But 
> they have no relationship to INT/BIGINT despite the byte size (4/8 
> bytes), the binary layout is different (see IEEE 754) and it embeds 
> {sign, exponent, mantissa}.

> I suppose the intended meaning was something like: floating point data
> types represent data stored in the database with the dynamic precision
> corresponding its storage format (physical size of the value).

OK...how about this wording to substitute for the troublesome
translation:
"
Floating point data types are stored in an IEEE 754 binary format that
comprises sign, exponent and mantissa.  Precision is dynamic,
corresponding to the physical storage format of the value, which may
be up to 4 bytes for the FLOAT type and up to 8 bytes for DOUBLE
PRECISION.
"

I would be loath to mention "scale" at all as it is not relevant for
floating-point types.

Comments?  Enhancements?  Martin, if that wording between the quotes
is a correct interpretation, would it work for your translation?

Helen



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Re: [Firebird-docs] Scale of number and precision on floating data types

[Mark Rotteveel]

No, that is not how floating point works. The storage is different from 
integers or bigint, as it is, the text makes no sense at all.
Mark

- Bericht beantwoorden -
Van: "Helen Borrie" 
Aan: "Chatter regarding Firebird documentation" 

Onderwerp: [Firebird-docs] Scale of number and precision on floating data types
Datum: wo, aug. 10, 2016 22:35

Hello ,

Wednesday, August 10, 2016, 9:20:50 PM, Martin Koeditz wrote:

> I hang on a text part in fblangref25-datatypes.xml -> 
> fblangref25-datatypes-floattypes:
> Floating-point data types are examples of data stored in the DBMS with the 
> precision matching the scale of the number.

> What is the scale of number? Please make this clear. Otherwise I don’t get 
> the correct translation.

I don't like this at all.  I think it needs some input from Paul and
Dmitry and we should rewrite it.

The way I understand the storage of floating point numbers:

FLOAT is stored as INTEGER (precision 9, scale 0) with the scale
(stored separately) depending on the position of the decimal point.

DOUBLE PRECISION is stored as BIGINT (18,0) with scale
depending on the position of the decimal point.

So (as I understand), floating point and fixed point numbers are
stored in the same manner.  The difference - understood by the engine
- is that the *accuracy* of floating point numbers is reduced as the
scale increases.  The *accuracy* of the last two digits is always
unreliable;  hence, the more the decimal point moves to the right, the
less accurate the number.

This assumption does need confirmation or correction, though.

The correctness of the statement aside, is your question about how to
translate the words "precision" and "scale"?  Possibly Thomas can help
with that, as he did the German translations of quite a few of the
earlier documents and often writes articles for German publications.

Helen


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