Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: [Terragear-devel] SRTM Eurasia
Martin Spott wrote: Erik Hofman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Martin Spott wrote: Hmmm, I'm shure there are several cases where roads go below the runway. Amsterdam Schiphol is a popular example, True, although I believe it's a taxiway and not a runway. Once I've been riding below this way while a B747 cargo pilot decided for a go-around. _Before_ entering the tunnel we saw the plane approaching and we saw it leaving when we left the tunnel. Quite a noisy adventure O.k., maybe it's really a taxiway and the pilot approached to the wrong track :-) Martin. The main Highway connecting Amsterdam with The Hague and Rotterdam runs underneath runway 09-27, _and_ two taxiways. What's even better is that there is also a bicycle path running parrallel to the motorway, going through what is locally known as the schiphol tunnel. Just outside the tunnel is actually an awesome spot for plane spotting and this is one of my favorite bike routes (it's about 10k's from home). At least,this used to be the situation. I arrived back at Schiphol three weeks ago, and we were assigned a runway. that dion't even exist when I left for my American Adventure, two years ago, The new runway, 01-36 runs west of the existing 10L-19R, and is connected to the main terminal via several new taxiways, which in on their own, also cross a few secondary roads. This runway also runs parrallel to a another major highway, which looked pretty spectacular from the plane, while landing. I can't wait to get settled a little more again, and for the weather to clear, so that I can take my racing bike for a little tour around schiphol again. [OT] So, you may have guessed, after two years in North Carolina and three months of travel, I'm back home again. I decided to visit Australia following the end of my contract and drove from NC to Californai. From there, I flew from San Fransisco to Honolulu, then via Sydney to Auckland, then via Sydney to Canberra, again via Sydney to Alice Springs, to Darwin, to Singapore, to Hong Kong, to Delhi, via Muscat and Abu-Dhabi to Cairo, and finally from Cairo via London Heathrow to Amsterdam Schiphol. Anyways, It's been a great time, but it's also great to be back. [/OT] Cheers, Durk ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Broken menu on links page
Just a quick note to say that the Downloads menu links (Source, Binary, Scenery) on the left hand side of the FGFS Related Links page at http://www.flightgear.org/links.html are broken. Mally --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.553 / Virus Database: 345 - Release Date: 18/12/03 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: LiveCD for FGFS - suggestion
Melchior FRANZ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] But I don't feel like making a fgfs CD. The problems with licenses of different proprietary graphic cards aren't such a great motivation. I tend to include OpenSource drivers only, no proprietary stuff. There are enough cards with OpenSource drivers available that are usuable for FlightGear - the usual DRI, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Re: LiveCD for FGFS - suggestion
* Martin Spott -- Sunday 21 December 2003 00:07: I tend to include OpenSource drivers only, no proprietary stuff. I understand, but then the whole effort is pretty useless. There are too many nVidia card users, and no open source 3D drivers for them. m. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] 18th Century city texture
Paul Surgeon wrote: BTW : I've seen some MSFS scenery that had street lights along a major road - it looked incredibly real and is a great navaid at night. In real life I don't find it all that useful. The places that major streets tend to be lit are the places that everything else around is strongly lit as well, so they're not always easy to make out (except when they run through a park, greenbelt, etc.). The other problem is that the lit portions tend to be too short for any serious navigation. A busy highway with lots of headlights can help you get from town to town, but at any reasonable cruising altitude (i.e. 3000 ft or above) and in clear night air, you can see cities very far away anyway, so you can just fly from city to city and forget about the roads. All the best, David ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: LiveCD for FGFS - suggestion
On Sun, 21 Dec 2003, Melchior FRANZ wrote: * Martin Spott -- Sunday 21 December 2003 00:07: I tend to include OpenSource drivers only, no proprietary stuff. I understand, but then the whole effort is pretty useless. There are too many nVidia card users, and no open source 3D drivers for them. And the open source drivers don't support some of the newer ATI cards. So you're left with something which performs rather unspectacularly, or not at all. If we *could* include the drivers then we would have something very useful, but without them I agree - it's rather useless. -- Jon Stockill [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: LiveCD for FGFS - suggestion
Melchior FRANZ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * Martin Spott -- Sunday 21 December 2003 00:07: I tend to include OpenSource drivers only, no proprietary stuff. I understand, but then the whole effort is pretty useless. There are too many nVidia card users, and no open source 3D drivers for them. As you already said: [...] The problems with licenses of different proprietary graphic cards aren't such a great motivation. I second that. Why shouldn't people use cards with OpenSource drivers for a presentation of an OpenSource flight simulator ? FlightGear developers are _that_ much careful when it's about including other people's work. Why shouldn't they take the same care for their graphics card drivers ? Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: LiveCD for FGFS - suggestion
Martin Spott wrote: As you already said: [...] The problems with licenses of different proprietary graphic cards aren't such a great motivation. I second that. Why shouldn't people use cards with OpenSource drivers for a presentation of an OpenSource flight simulator ? FlightGear developers are _that_ much careful when it's about including other people's work. Why shouldn't they take the same care for their graphics card drivers ? Because the graphics card vendor might allow that (but I haven't checked if that's true). Erik ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: LiveCD for FGFS - suggestion
Martin Spott writes: Melchior FRANZ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * Martin Spott -- Sunday 21 December 2003 00:07: I tend to include OpenSource drivers only, no proprietary stuff. I understand, but then the whole effort is pretty useless. There are too many nVidia card users, and no open source 3D drivers for them. As you already said: [...] The problems with licenses of different proprietary graphic cards aren't such a great motivation. I second that. Why shouldn't people use cards with OpenSource drivers for a presentation of an OpenSource flight simulator ? FlightGear developers are _that_ much careful when it's about including other people's work. Why shouldn't they take the same care for their graphics card drivers ? The problem is that the best quality, highest performance cards are either made by nvidia and ATI with binary only drivers. The open-source drivers have flaws and are lower quality. I don't mean that as a criticism, it's just that the in-house nvidia/ati developers have a huge advantage over the open-source developers in terms of access to card info and assistance with problems. These binary only drivers are given away for free; I personally don't have a problem with using them. People have to work and feed their families too. Open-source is great, and I'm proud to be part of one of the larger open source projects out there. But personally, I don't mind if FlightGear runs on top of proprietary operating systems or drivers such as Mac OS, sgi, windows, solaris, or a binary nvidia driver on linux. There needs to be a balance between idealism and pragmatism. Regards, Curt. -- Curtis Olson HumanFIRST Program FlightGear Project Twin Citiescurt 'at' me.umn.edu curt 'at' flightgear.org Minnesota http://www.flightgear.org/~curt http://www.flightgear.org ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
RE: [Flightgear-devel] Re: LiveCD for FGFS - suggestion
Curtis L. Olson writes: But personally, I don't mind if FlightGear runs on top of proprietary operating systems or drivers such as Mac OS, sgi, windows, solaris, or a binary nvidia driver on linux. There needs to be a balance between idealism and pragmatism. Taking the paragmatic route a little further -- I wonder how many machines running FGFS are running with an Open Source BIOS ? Norman ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: LiveCD for FGFS - suggestion
Jon Stockill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And the open source drivers don't support some of the newer ATI cards. Sorry, why do you buy cards that are not supported by OpenSource drivers ? You are developing OpenSource software, why don't you take care of that. I can't accept this as a valid argument. I do look out for drivers _before_ I buy a card for my or my customers' PeeCee (currently I don't even own a PC ;-) Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: LiveCD for FGFS - suggestion
Martin Spott writes: Jon Stockill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And the open source drivers don't support some of the newer ATI cards. Sorry, why do you buy cards that are not supported by OpenSource drivers ? You are developing OpenSource software, why don't you take care of that. I can't accept this as a valid argument. I do look out for drivers _before_ I buy a card for my or my customers' PeeCee (currently I don't even own a PC ;-) Is it sgi machines that you run on? Curt. -- Curtis Olson HumanFIRST Program FlightGear Project Twin Citiescurt 'at' me.umn.edu curt 'at' flightgear.org Minnesota http://www.flightgear.org/~curt http://www.flightgear.org ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: LiveCD for FGFS - suggestion
Norman Vine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Taking the paragmatic route a little further -- I wonder how many machines running FGFS are running with an Open Source BIOS ? Not many, but on the other hand you won't have much trouble with the BIOS when you think about a standalone FlightGear CD. Dealing with a bunch of different kernel modules for autodetecting different vendors' cards might prove to end in a huge mess. This _is_ very pragmatic thinking, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: LiveCD for FGFS - suggestion
Martin Spott writes: Not many, but on the other hand you won't have much trouble with the BIOS when you think about a standalone FlightGear CD. Dealing with a bunch of different kernel modules for autodetecting different vendors' cards might prove to end in a huge mess. This _is_ very pragmatic thinking, I don't think this big mess is the fault of vendors with binary drivers. OpenGL support on Linux has historically been a big mess and it's still a pain to get going on a lot of systems and especially for new users. Much of this is because Linux/XFree86 just didn't have infrastructure to support it in the early days when 3d cards started to become available for pc's. If there had been a driver standard when all this started, I'm sure companies like nvidia would have adopted it. But there wasn't (DRI was under development, but it just wasn't there quickly enough.) Nvidia chose to go their own route so they could get drivers out the door. But this discussion is getting very political and we do a *lot* better if we concentrate on FlightGear rather than politics! Thanks, Curt. -- Curtis Olson HumanFIRST Program FlightGear Project Twin Citiescurt 'at' me.umn.edu curt 'at' flightgear.org Minnesota http://www.flightgear.org/~curt http://www.flightgear.org ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: LiveCD for FGFS - suggestion
From: Martin Spott [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jon Stockill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And the open source drivers don't support some of the newer ATI cards. Sorry, why do you buy cards that are not supported by OpenSource drivers ? You are developing OpenSource software, why don't you take care of that. I can't accept this as a valid argument. I do look out for drivers _before_ I buy a card for my or my customers' PeeCee (currently I don't even own a PC ;-) There is little point making a Linux based LiveCD of FGFS, if it can only be used on specific computers that a knowledgable person has already checked. With that constraint, we might as well either (a) do a full manual install of Linux with the driver downloading, or (b) use the Windows version of FGFS and set the CDROM up for AutoRun. Remember, the idea of the LiveCD was that people could use it at home. From the pragmatic point of view, if (b) is the right way to go, I've got no objections to making the script up on a Linux machine then burning a copy of the standard AutoRun FGFS image with the new script file inserted. I won't be able to _use_ the CDROM myself, but I can still hand it out ... ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: LiveCD for FGFS - suggestion
Alex Perry writes: From: Martin Spott [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jon Stockill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And the open source drivers don't support some of the newer ATI cards. Sorry, why do you buy cards that are not supported by OpenSource drivers ? You are developing OpenSource software, why don't you take care of that. I can't accept this as a valid argument. I do look out for drivers _before_ I buy a card for my or my customers' PeeCee (currently I don't even own a PC ;-) There is little point making a Linux based LiveCD of FGFS, if it can only be used on specific computers that a knowledgable person has already checked. With that constraint, we might as well either (a) do a full manual install of Linux with the driver downloading, or (b) use the Windows version of FGFS and set the CDROM up for AutoRun. Remember, the idea of the LiveCD was that people could use it at home. From the pragmatic point of view, if (b) is the right way to go, I've got no objections to making the script up on a Linux machine then burning a copy of the standard AutoRun FGFS image with the new script file inserted. I won't be able to _use_ the CDROM myself, but I can still hand it out ... Alex, For what it's worth, the cd distribution I've assembled has a ready to run copy of windows flightgear on it. Just pop in the cd, double click on the runfgfs.bat file and you are up and running. Regards, Curt. -- Curtis Olson HumanFIRST Program FlightGear Project Twin Citiescurt 'at' me.umn.edu curt 'at' flightgear.org Minnesota http://www.flightgear.org/~curt http://www.flightgear.org ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
