[Flightgear-devel] MIL-STD-1878B -- Aircraft Display Symbology

2006-07-01 Thread Melchior FRANZ
Seems easy to find, but wasn't[1]:

  http://www.hf.faa.gov/docs/milstd1787b.zip

The newest version should be 1878c, though ...

m.


[1] 
http://www.hf.faa.gov/WorkbenchTools/default.aspx?rPage=TooldetailssubCatId=39toolID=165

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Adding custom menus per aircraft

2006-07-01 Thread Melchior FRANZ
* flying.toaster -- Saturday 01 July 2006 09:04:
 the only way to add menus and dialogs is by putting them on
 the $FGROOT/gui directory. Am I getting it right ? 

No. You just need to add the items to /sim/menubar/default. This can be
done from local configs, *-set.xml files, command line, etc. But it's
only considered at startup. Later additions have no effect.



  If not is there any tutorial on how to write aircraft-specific dialogs ?

No. But plenty of examples. Look into $FG_ROOT/Nasal/{gui,screen,material}.nas,
$FG_ROOT/Aircraft/bo105/Models/bo105.nas and $FG_ROOT/Aircraft/ufo/ufo.nas.



  If not is there a way to condition the appearance of a menu to a
  specific aircraft (that would help me for instance provide a fuel  loadout
  menu on  a JSBSim aircraft)

JSBSim is not capable of providing this functionality. That's why this entry
is greyed out for JSBSim aircraft. But you can, of course, override that,
and offer an optional dialog. Just redefine gui.showWeightDialog() in
Nasal space and generate a different dialog.

m.

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] MIL-STD-1878B -- Aircraft Display Symbology

2006-07-01 Thread Melchior FRANZ
* Melchior FRANZ -- Saturday 01 July 2006 09:14:
   http://www.hf.faa.gov/docs/milstd1787b.zip
 
 The newest version should be 1878c, though ...

1787c, of course.  :-)

m.

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] MIL-STD-1878B -- Aircraft Display Symbology

2006-07-01 Thread Melchior FRANZ
* Mathias Fröhlich -- Saturday 01 July 2006 09:28:
 So you are currently redoing the hud geometries?

Possiblty some of it. But first I wanted to have the source that the original
author reportedly used, because I hoped that this would make the messy code
easier to understand. Not sure yet if this will be the case.



 What do you think about putting that stuff into the scenegraph instead of 
 doing OpenGL calls directly?

I don't care much, but I welcome every improvement that someone else does.
More work for me isn't an option, especially since the scenegraph isn't
one of my domains.

m.

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Fwd: FlightGear network protocol

2006-07-01 Thread Erik Hofman
Torsten Dreyer wrote:
 Hi, try  
 
 fgfs --prop:/sim/rendering/draw-otw=0 

Ah, yes. Now that you mention it.

Erik


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] MIL-STD-1878B -- Aircraft Display Symbology

2006-07-01 Thread Mathias Fröhlich
On Saturday 01 July 2006 09:38, Melchior FRANZ wrote:
 * Mathias Fröhlich -- Saturday 01 July 2006 09:28:
  So you are currently redoing the hud geometries?

 Possiblty some of it. But first I wanted to have the source that the
 original author reportedly used, because I hoped that this would make the
 messy code easier to understand. Not sure yet if this will be the case.
I have already looked into that some time ago. I believe I understand more or 
less what is done there. I just did not want to open that task with one 
person. :)

  What do you think about putting that stuff into the scenegraph instead of
  doing OpenGL calls directly?

 I don't care much, but I welcome every improvement that someone else does.
 More work for me isn't an option, especially since the scenegraph isn't
 one of my domains.
Ok, lets coordinate our work :)

Well, the reason I ask is that I would like to improove flightgears internal 
structures and interfaces so that we have less things to reimplement when we 
add support for an other scenegraph api.
OpenSceneGraph is a good candidate. But a well separated api will help 
integration of DirectX as an alternative on windows for the case redmond will 
stop support for OpenGL like they tried several times in the past years ...

I have on my local disk already code that makes use of osg with the exception 
of the hud, the panel the clouds and the shadows.
It is faster than ssg in most cases and I believe we can make look flightgear 
better with a better and maintained scenegraph.

If we can base the hud on a restricted scenegraph api (well ssg is 
sufficient - ssg is restricted in itself :) and if we could reuse some 
SGAnimations that already can read properties will help definitely much.

I don't know if we can get that far, but may be we can use external models 
that are used for the hud symbology and plug them together with animations?

But at least getting rid of the direct opengl calls is something useful.

An other option for the hud would be to merge the hud with the render_area_2d 
implementation. It is definitely some kind of that. Also the symbology 
described in the pdf you mention is not limited to the hud. It appears to be 
used for such mfd's too ...

Well, I have to leave now and will be away until probably sunday evening. Next 
week is also a bit tight for me, so I cannot help much until in two weeks, I 
believe. But I would like to contribute to that project ...

Greetings

   Mathias

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] MIL-STD-1878B -- Aircraft Display Symbology

2006-07-01 Thread Melchior FRANZ
* Mathias Fröhlich -- Saturday 01 July 2006 09:28:
 What do you think about putting that stuff into the scenegraph [...]

BTW: this is already doable via render-to-texture. Unfortunately, I
can't find the reason why the contents appear quite dark and the
settings that work well on the 2D/3D HUD don't work there.

I have this test section in the bo105's instrumentation config:

  hud
namehud/name
number0/number
pathAircraft/f16/Hud/f16.xml/path
x-scale2/x-scale
y-scale2/y-scale
textureAircraft/bo105/Instruments/hud/hud.rgb/texture
  /hud

The texture entry defines the virtual texture path that can be
mapped to a HUD (or other) face.

m.

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] MIL-STD-1878B -- Aircraft Display Symbology

2006-07-01 Thread Melchior FRANZ
* Mathias Fröhlich -- Saturday 01 July 2006 10:19:
 I have already looked into that some time ago. I believe I understand more or 
 less what is done there.

So do I. But that's not enough.

m.

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] MIL-STD-1878B -- Aircraft Display Symbology

2006-07-01 Thread Mathias Fröhlich
On Saturday 01 July 2006 10:20, Melchior FRANZ wrote:
 * Mathias Fröhlich -- Saturday 01 July 2006 09:28:
  What do you think about putting that stuff into the scenegraph [...]

 BTW: this is already doable via render-to-texture. Unfortunately, I
 can't find the reason why the contents appear quite dark and the
 settings that work well on the 2D/3D HUD don't work there.
I would like to get rid of the direct opengl calls in the hud. Drawing the hud 
with some kind of multi stage rendering is an other different thing we can 
think about. See the remark in the other mail.

   Greetings

 Mathias

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] MIL-STD-1878B -- Aircraft Display Symbology

2006-07-01 Thread Mathias Fröhlich

On Saturday 01 July 2006 10:20, Melchior FRANZ wrote:
 BTW: this is already doable via render-to-texture. Unfortunately, I
 can't find the reason why the contents appear quite dark and the
 settings that work well on the 2D/3D HUD don't work there.
And keep in mind, that our rendertexture implementation just does *not* work 
on any dri driver and on any ati driver.
Only nvidia cards support what rendertexture's current implementation needs.
So relying on nvidia for such a central thing like the hud is not a good idea 
IMO.

Greetings

 Mathias

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] MIL-STD-1878B -- Aircraft Display Symbology

2006-07-01 Thread Melchior FRANZ
* Mathias Fröhlich -- Saturday 01 July 2006 10:30:
 I would like to get rid of the direct opengl calls in the hud. Drawing the 
 hud 
 with some kind of multi stage rendering is an other different thing we can 
 think about. See the remark in the other mail.

OK, so I shall stop any further work on the HUD? No problem. Done.
Would have been nice if you had spoken up a little sooner. We are
discussing the HUD now since a long time.

m.

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] MIL-STD-1878B -- Aircraft Display Symbology

2006-07-01 Thread Erik Hofman
Melchior FRANZ wrote:

 OK, so I shall stop any further work on the HUD? No problem. Done.
 Would have been nice if you had spoken up a little sooner. We are
 discussing the HUD now since a long time.

It would already be an improvement to add what you have now (using 
properties and such) and take care of using the scenegraph at some later 
time IMHO.

Erik

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] MIL-STD-1878B -- Aircraft Display Symbology

2006-07-01 Thread Melchior FRANZ
* Erik Hofman -- Saturday 01 July 2006 10:39:
 It would already be an improvement to add what you have now (using 
 properties and such) and take care of using the scenegraph at some later 
 time IMHO.

But it's not finished, and I'm not sure if I want to waste more time.

m.

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] MIL-STD-1878B -- Aircraft Display Symbology

2006-07-01 Thread Mathias Fröhlich
On Saturday 01 July 2006 10:36, Melchior FRANZ wrote:
 * Mathias Fröhlich -- Saturday 01 July 2006 10:30:
  I would like to get rid of the direct opengl calls in the hud. Drawing
  the hud with some kind of multi stage rendering is an other different
  thing we can think about. See the remark in the other mail.

 OK, so I shall stop any further work on the HUD? No problem. Done.
 Would have been nice if you had spoken up a little sooner. We are
 discussing the HUD now since a long time.
Sorry, I do not want that you stop working on that.
What do you already have that is not checked in?
What has happened up to now was not critical to that point. And even then, 
almost everything can propably be reused, even if there are direct opengl 
calls.
I hooked in at the time it appeared to me that you started changing the 
geometry, that is the point that is important ...

I think it is an improovement what you do. So no need to stop ...

Greetings

 Mathias

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] MIL-STD-1878B -- Aircraft Display Symbology

2006-07-01 Thread Erik Hofman
Melchior FRANZ wrote:
 * Erik Hofman -- Saturday 01 July 2006 10:39:
 It would already be an improvement to add what you have now (using 
 properties and such) and take care of using the scenegraph at some later 
 time IMHO.
 
 But it's not finished, and I'm not sure if I want to waste more time.

What is it that still needs to be done to your opinion?

Erik

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] MIL-STD-1878B -- Aircraft Display Symbology

2006-07-01 Thread Mathias Fröhlich
On Saturday 01 July 2006 10:44, Melchior FRANZ wrote:
 But it's not finished, and I'm not sure if I want to waste more time.
Why 'waste time'?
What do you have and what do you still need to do in your opinion?

   Greetings

   Mathias

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[Flightgear-devel] Time initialization problem

2006-07-01 Thread Durk Talsma
Hi all,

I'm investigating a time-offset initialization problem, related to a broken 
--time-match-local command line option. This option should set the local 
simulator time to the same time as where I am in real life. For example, I am 
located in a CET timezone, where it is 13:15, and want to fly in the pacific 
time zone, and also have the time there to be 13:15 locally. The 
--time-match-local option takes care of this by adding a 9 hour time offset 
to the value of warp.


In src/Main/fg_init.cxx, line 1413 in the function fgInitTimeOffset() there is  
a line that reads: 

int orig_warp = globals-get_warp();
...
[some warp computations]
...
which is later followed by:

 globals-set_warp( orig_warp + warp );



The problem is that this function is called twice. The first time through, 
warp is set correctly, but the second time through it is messed up, because 
warp is calculated correctly the first time through, but then the same warp 
is _added_ to the already existing warp value. The end result is that not 9 
hours, but 18 hours are added to warp.

Considering that this function is called Init, I believe that the statement on 
line 1413 is wrong. An init function should not carry over existing values or 
the very variable it is supposed to initialize. Therefore, I'm inclined to 
remove that part. However, I just want to double check whether there is a 
compelling reason to keep this in the code. Is there another function that 
can already set warp before time is initialized?

Cheers,
Durk

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[Flightgear-devel] wxradar question

2006-07-01 Thread Justin Smithies
Me and Syd have implemented the wxradar into our 777-200 model and have 
noticed that it will only display the clouds if 3d clouds are selected.
Is there a reason for this or is it simply something that was overlooked ?

Regards,
Justin Smithies

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] wxradar question

2006-07-01 Thread Vivian Meazza
Justin Smithies asked:

 
 Me and Syd have implemented the wxradar into our 777-200 model and have
 noticed that it will only display the clouds if 3d clouds are selected.
 Is there a reason for this or is it simply something that was overlooked ?
 

The wxradar displays the positions of the 3d clouds, and therefore needs 3d
clouds to be enabled to work ... logical eh?

Regards,

Vivian


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Adding custom menus per aircraft

2006-07-01 Thread Jon S. Berndt
 JSBSim is not capable of providing this functionality. That's why
 this entry
 is greyed out for JSBSim aircraft. But you can, of course, override that,
 and offer an optional dialog. Just redefine gui.showWeightDialog() in
 Nasal space and generate a different dialog.

Is there a property we (JSBSim) need to provide tat would make this
possible? Can someone bring me up to speed on what is being asked for, here?

Jon


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[Flightgear-devel] mp and animations

2006-07-01 Thread Josh Babcock
Is there some property that plane modelers can use to do LOD and turn
off certain animations on aircraft that are being flown remotely? Planes
like the bo105 with complex animations look pretty funny when they are
not being flown locally, with doors missing, rotor blades all in one
spot etc. It would be nice to have some property to key on and just
present a low-LOD version of a plane when it is being viewed as a remote
mp aircraft.

Josh

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Adding custom menus per aircraft

2006-07-01 Thread Melchior FRANZ
* Jon S. Berndt -- Saturday 01 July 2006 14:35:
* * Melchior FRANZ -- Saturday 01 July 2006 09:21:
[gui.showWeightDialog()]
  JSBSim is not capable of providing this functionality. That's why
  this entry is greyed out for JSBSim aircraft.

 Is there a property we (JSBSim) need to provide tat would make this
 possible? Can someone bring me up to speed on what is being asked for, here?

  /consumables/fuel/tank[n]/selected
  /consumables/fuel/tank[n]/level-gal_us
  /sim/weight[n]/weight-lb

to select active tanks, fuel amount, and weights at runtime.

m.

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[Flightgear-devel] g-meter in Nasal

2006-07-01 Thread flying.toaster
Thanks for the answer on the dialogs. For the time being I will put the GUI on 
the backburner since some development needs to be done.

I want to implement max and min g-load needles on a g-meter instrument.
I was thinking that setting up a listener in nasal for vertical acceleration 
would do the trick... But I cannot find an example on how to set up a listener 
...

 Also if anybody can think of a better solution to get the max and min of a 
property along time ...

Enrique


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] g-meter in Nasal

2006-07-01 Thread Josh Babcock
flying.toaster wrote:
 Thanks for the answer on the dialogs. For the time being I will put the GUI 
 on the backburner since some development needs to be done.
 
 I want to implement max and min g-load needles on a g-meter instrument.
 I was thinking that setting up a listener in nasal for vertical acceleration 
 would do the trick... But I cannot find an example on how to set up a 
 listener ...
 
  Also if anybody can think of a better solution to get the max and min of a 
 property along time ...
 


You will need continuous polling I think, so a listener is just extra
overhead. Just make a little function call that checks the value and
stores any max/min values it finds in a property.

Make it call itself with settimer(foo, 0.05); or something like that as
it's last line to get a tight polling schedule. It's possible that it
will miss a max or min, but that property shouldn't be changing so fast
that 20/sec won't catch it very near the peak.

Josh

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] g-meter in Nasal

2006-07-01 Thread AJ MacLeod
On Saturday 01 July 2006 22:13, flying.toaster wrote:
 I want to implement max and min g-load needles on a g-meter instrument.

The Lightning has one of these.  Just the usual polling timer, written 
before there were listeners, though this isn't a very good place for a 
listener anyway AFAICS.  It was my first ever bit of nasal so don't judge too 
harshly :-)

Cheers,

AJ

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] g-meter in Nasal

2006-07-01 Thread Ampere K. Hardraade
On Saturday 01 July 2006 17:27, Josh Babcock wrote:
 Make it call itself with settimer(foo, 0.05); or something like that as
 it's last line to get a tight polling schedule. It's possible that it
 will miss a max or min, but that property shouldn't be changing so fast
 that 20/sec won't catch it very near the peak.

 Josh

I might be wrong, but I don't think settimer(foo, 0.05) would poll any faster 
than settimer(foo, 0).



Ampere

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] g-meter in Nasal

2006-07-01 Thread Josh Babcock
Ampere K. Hardraade wrote:
 On Saturday 01 July 2006 17:27, Josh Babcock wrote:
 Make it call itself with settimer(foo, 0.05); or something like that as
 it's last line to get a tight polling schedule. It's possible that it
 will miss a max or min, but that property shouldn't be changing so fast
 that 20/sec won't catch it very near the peak.

 Josh
 
 I might be wrong, but I don't think settimer(foo, 0.05) would poll any faster 
 than settimer(foo, 0).
 
ttps://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
 

True, unless someone had framerates higher than 20 FPS. Though perhaps
setting the time to zero would be better regardless.

Josh

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] mp and animations

2006-07-01 Thread Dene


Lee Elliott wrote:
 On Saturday 01 July 2006 17:05, Josh Babcock wrote:
   
 Is there some property that plane modelers can use to do LOD
 and turn off certain animations on aircraft that are being
 flown remotely? Planes like the bo105 with complex animations
 look pretty funny when they are not being flown locally, with
 doors missing, rotor blades all in one spot etc. It would be
 nice to have some property to key on and just present a
 low-LOD version of a plane when it is being viewed as a remote
 mp aircraft.

 Josh
 

 I believe the mp 'team' ;) are aware of this problem but it's not 
 a trivial one to solve.

 It's not impossible, of course, but in addition to everything 
 that is currently being passed between mp clients, a widely 
 varying range of animation data would also have to be exchanged, 
 in a scheme that would also have to cope with multiple instances 
 of identical aircraft.

 Certainly, having some standardisation in the model and animation 
 scheme would help but atm, I don't think that enough people have 
 developed enough aircraft to have gathered enough knowledge to 
 know what requirements would have to be met in the standards.

 Put another way, I don't think we know enough yet, to be able to 
 define a standard that would cope with any eventuality.

 LeeE


   
 From my investigations this problem of missing model bits is caused 
because some XML animations turn model objects off (de-select them)  
when the view is from the cockpit. When the models is used for MP it's 
essentially an AI model and these bits get turned off because the AI 
property tree doesn't support views... the Spitfire had the same thing 
that I cured by removing the de-select parts of the animation XML

:-D ene

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] mp and animations

2006-07-01 Thread Josh Babcock
Lee Elliott wrote:

 It's not impossible, of course, but in addition to everything 
 that is currently being passed between mp clients, a widely 
 varying range of animation data would also have to be exchanged, 
 in a scheme that would also have to cope with multiple instances 
 of identical aircraft.

I was thinking more of continuing to not pass that animation data, but
also locally setting some property that the animations could use as a
key to do one static thing, instead of relying on those missing
properties. The bo105 rotor, for instance, uses all sorts of Nasal
provided props to set up the doors, rotors, etc.

With some property, like /sim/mp=true, you could use a select anim to
hide all that cool but non-functional stuff and substitute static doors,
and maybe a simple unanimated rotor disc instead. The property would
have to have it's value change depending on if it is being referenced by
an ai/mp aircraft or one controlled by the local FDM.

Josh

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] g-meter

2006-07-01 Thread syd sandy

 Thanks for the answer on the dialogs. For the time being I will put the GUI 
 on the backburner since some development needs to be done.

 I want to implement max and min g-load needles on a g-meter instrument.
 I was thinking that setting up a listener in nasal for vertical acceleration 
 would do the trick... But I cannot find an example on how to set up a 
 listener ...

  Also if anybody can think of a better solution to get the max and min of a 
 property along time ...

 Enrique
   
Maybe I'm on the wrong track , but why not use the 
/accelerations/pilot-g property ?
Syd

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Time initialization problem

2006-07-01 Thread Curtis L. Olson
I forget who setup the original --time-match-local options (and friends) 
and I never really understood how they went together.  I think if you do 
test out a change here, make sure that the 
--timeofday=dawn,noon,morning,night,etc. option still works correctly.

Regards,

Curt.


Durk Talsma wrote:
 Hi all,

 I'm investigating a time-offset initialization problem, related to a broken 
 --time-match-local command line option. This option should set the local 
 simulator time to the same time as where I am in real life. For example, I am 
 located in a CET timezone, where it is 13:15, and want to fly in the pacific 
 time zone, and also have the time there to be 13:15 locally. The 
 --time-match-local option takes care of this by adding a 9 hour time offset 
 to the value of warp.


 In src/Main/fg_init.cxx, line 1413 in the function fgInitTimeOffset() there 
 is  
 a line that reads: 

 int orig_warp = globals-get_warp();
 ...
 [some warp computations]
 ...
 which is later followed by:

  globals-set_warp( orig_warp + warp );



 The problem is that this function is called twice. The first time through, 
 warp is set correctly, but the second time through it is messed up, because 
 warp is calculated correctly the first time through, but then the same warp 
 is _added_ to the already existing warp value. The end result is that not 9 
 hours, but 18 hours are added to warp.

 Considering that this function is called Init, I believe that the statement 
 on 
 line 1413 is wrong. An init function should not carry over existing values or 
 the very variable it is supposed to initialize. Therefore, I'm inclined to 
 remove that part. However, I just want to double check whether there is a 
 compelling reason to keep this in the code. Is there another function that 
 can already set warp before time is initialized?
   


-- 
Curtis Olsonhttp://www.flightgear.org/~curt
HumanFIRST Program  http://www.humanfirst.umn.edu/
FlightGear Project  http://www.flightgear.org
Unique text:2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] g-meter

2006-07-01 Thread Melchior FRANZ
* syd  sandy -- Sunday 02 July 2006 01:19:
 Maybe I'm on the wrong track , but why not use the 
 /accelerations/pilot-g property ?

Only YASim sets this. None of the other FDMs does. That's why I had used
/accelerations/pilot/z-accel-fps_sec * -0.03108095 in the now obsoleted
new src/Instrumentation/HUD/ code. (Because this value was a bit too
instable, I had also added a simple optional EWMA filter for HUD input
channels.)

m.

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