Re: [Flightgear-devel] Bomb patch for vulcanb2

2007-07-13 Thread Detlef Faber
Am Freitag, den 13.07.2007, 10:27 +0200 schrieb Heiko Schulz:
 Hi,
 
 I agree with Torsten - FGFS is a civil simulator - not
 a war simulator. 
 

first of all FG is an open source simulator, so the author of an
airplane, or contributor of code can implement any (legal) feature he
wishes.

Greetings

Detlef
 
 --- Torsten Dreyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb:
 
  Hi,
  
  should this really be part of a flight simulation
  software? If yes, what will 
  be the next step?
  - Should the demolition of buildings be modeled?
  - What about humans in the scenery?
  - Any sound for this?
  
  My personal vote is please do not commit. I do not
  like it!
  
  Greetings, 
Torsten
  
  Am Donnerstag, 12. Juli 2007 21:47 schrieb Stuart
  Buchanan:
   Hi All,
  
   I have a patch for the vulcanb2 that causes the
  1,000lb bombs to leave
   craters on impact with the ground.
  
   Available from
  http://www.nanjika.co.uk/flightgear/vulcanb2.tar.gz
  
   The crater.[ac|rgb] files should go into the
  Aircraft/vulcanb2/Models
   directory.
  
   Could someone please commit.
  
   Thanks
  
   -Stuart
  
  
  
  
  
  
 
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Bomb patch for vulcanb2

2007-07-13 Thread leee
Yes, it absolutely be part of flight simulation software.  The main reason I 
made the Canberra B(I)8 was so that I had an appropriate aircraft to 
investigate LABS/toss-bombing scenarios and techniques.  This wasn't because 
I wanted to pretend to vapourise lots of people but because the aerial 
manuevers are interesting in their own right.

Saying that FG should be a 'civil' only flight sim is saying that certain 
aerial manuevers must not be performed using it.  Should I not have done an 
SU-37 to show that the YASim FDM is capable of performing many of the 
manuevers that the real aircraft is capable of, just because it is a military 
aircraft, and should we not be allowed to investigate these technologies and 
developments in FG?

I think that trying to insist on a civil only FG seems too much like an 
ineffective and misplaced form of censorship that will change nothing in the 
real world, and that is really where the problem is.

LeeE

On Friday 13 July 2007 07:14, Torsten Dreyer wrote:
 Hi,

 should this really be part of a flight simulation software? If yes, what
 will be the next step?
 - Should the demolition of buildings be modeled?
 - What about humans in the scenery?
 - Any sound for this?

 My personal vote is please do not commit. I do not like it!

 Greetings,
   Torsten

 Am Donnerstag, 12. Juli 2007 21:47 schrieb Stuart Buchanan:
  Hi All,
 
  I have a patch for the vulcanb2 that causes the 1,000lb bombs to leave
  craters on impact with the ground.
 
  Available from http://www.nanjika.co.uk/flightgear/vulcanb2.tar.gz
 
  The crater.[ac|rgb] files should go into the Aircraft/vulcanb2/Models
  directory.
 
  Could someone please commit.
 
  Thanks
 
  -Stuart
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Bomb patch for vulcanb2

2007-07-13 Thread Heiko Schulz
Hi,

That's right, it's an OpenSource-Project, everyone can
implement what he wants.
But we don't have to forget that the aim is to have a
civil simulation.

I'm not against to see military aircrafts here in the
sim, but where is the limit? Showing only bombs? The
resultats? Or dogfighting? 

At least it is a free project, so I'm free to say my
opinion. 

Greetings
HHS


--- Detlef Faber [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb:

 Am Freitag, den 13.07.2007, 10:27 +0200 schrieb
 Heiko Schulz:
  Hi,
  
  I agree with Torsten - FGFS is a civil simulator -
 not
  a war simulator. 
  
 
 first of all FG is an open source simulator, so the
 author of an
 airplane, or contributor of code can implement any
 (legal) feature he
 wishes.
 
 Greetings
 
 Detlef
  
  --- Torsten Dreyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb:
  
   Hi,
   
   should this really be part of a flight
 simulation
   software? If yes, what will 
   be the next step?
   - Should the demolition of buildings be modeled?
   - What about humans in the scenery?
   - Any sound for this?
   
   My personal vote is please do not commit. I do
 not
   like it!
   
   Greetings, 
 Torsten
   
   Am Donnerstag, 12. Juli 2007 21:47 schrieb
 Stuart
   Buchanan:
Hi All,
   
I have a patch for the vulcanb2 that causes
 the
   1,000lb bombs to leave
craters on impact with the ground.
   
Available from
  
 http://www.nanjika.co.uk/flightgear/vulcanb2.tar.gz
   
The crater.[ac|rgb] files should go into the
   Aircraft/vulcanb2/Models
directory.
   
Could someone please commit.
   
Thanks
   
-Stuart
   
   
   
   
   
   
  
 

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Bomb patch for vulcanb2

2007-07-13 Thread SydSandy
On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 17:47:32 +0100
leee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Yes, it absolutely be part of flight simulation software.  The main reason I 
 made the Canberra B(I)8 was so that I had an appropriate aircraft to 
 investigate LABS/toss-bombing scenarios and techniques.  This wasn't because 
 I wanted to pretend to vapourise lots of people but because the aerial 
 manuevers are interesting in their own right.
 
 Saying that FG should be a 'civil' only flight sim is saying that certain 
 aerial manuevers must not be performed using it.  Should I not have done an 
 SU-37 to show that the YASim FDM is capable of performing many of the 
 manuevers that the real aircraft is capable of, just because it is a military 
 aircraft, and should we not be allowed to investigate these technologies and 
 developments in FG?
 
 I think that trying to insist on a civil only FG seems too much like an 
 ineffective and misplaced form of censorship that will change nothing in the 
 real world, and that is really where the problem is.
 
 LeeE
 

I dont have a problem with military aircraft,for the same reason as LeeE ,but 
what part of the flight dynamics does a hole in the ground effect ?

SydSandy [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Bomb patch for vulcanb2

2007-07-13 Thread GWMobile
Flight gear was originally proposed by myself and others to be a sim 
that wnet where people wrote code for it.
If there are people who want to write code for combat then it should be 
included.

The same is true for ships and cars.

I would love it if flightgear also became a good driving simulator and 
sailing simulator.

Then it will be simgear.


On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 10:21 am, leee wrote:
 Yes, it absolutely be part of flight simulation software.  The main 
 reason I
 made the Canberra B(I)8 was so that I had an appropriate aircraft to
 investigate LABS/toss-bombing scenarios and techniques.  This wasn't 
 because
 I wanted to pretend to vapourise lots of people but because the aerial
 manuevers are interesting in their own right.

 Saying that FG should be a 'civil' only flight sim is saying that 
 certain
 aerial manuevers must not be performed using it.  Should I not have 
 done an
 SU-37 to show that the YASim FDM is capable of performing many of the
 manuevers that the real aircraft is capable of, just because it is a 
 military
 aircraft, and should we not be allowed to investigate these 
 technologies and
 developments in FG?

 I think that trying to insist on a civil only FG seems too much like an
 ineffective and misplaced form of censorship that will change nothing 
 in the
 real world, and that is really where the problem is.

 LeeE

 On Friday 13 July 2007 07:14, Torsten Dreyer wrote:
  Hi,

  should this really be part of a flight simulation software? If yes, 
 what
  will be the next step?
  - Should the demolition of buildings be modeled?
  - What about humans in the scenery?
  - Any sound for this?

  My personal vote is please do not commit. I do not like it!

  Greetings,
Torsten

  Am Donnerstag, 12. Juli 2007 21:47 schrieb Stuart Buchanan:
   Hi All,
  
   I have a patch for the vulcanb2 that causes the 1,000lb bombs to 
 leave
   craters on impact with the ground.
  
   Available from http://www.nanjika.co.uk/flightgear/vulcanb2.tar.gz
  
   The crater.[ac|rgb] files should go into the 
 Aircraft/vulcanb2/Models
   directory.
  
   Could someone please commit.
  
   Thanks
  
   -Stuart
  
  
  
  
  
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Bomb patch for vulcanb2

2007-07-13 Thread Heiko Schulz
Hi,

O.k. - but then I think (suggestion) it should be
seperated into branches of combat, sailing, driving,
etc...

I can really remember, that one of you said, that the
aim is to become a civilian simulator - so I'm
mistaken?

HHS
--- GWMobile [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb:

 Flight gear was originally proposed by myself and
 others to be a sim 
 that wnet where people wrote code for it.
 If there are people who want to write code for
 combat then it should be 
 included.
 
 The same is true for ships and cars.
 
 I would love it if flightgear also became a good
 driving simulator and 
 sailing simulator.
 
 Then it will be simgear.
 
 
 On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 10:21 am, leee wrote:
  Yes, it absolutely be part of flight simulation
 software.  The main 
  reason I
  made the Canberra B(I)8 was so that I had an
 appropriate aircraft to
  investigate LABS/toss-bombing scenarios and
 techniques.  This wasn't 
  because
  I wanted to pretend to vapourise lots of people
 but because the aerial
  manuevers are interesting in their own right.
 
  Saying that FG should be a 'civil' only flight sim
 is saying that 
  certain
  aerial manuevers must not be performed using it. 
 Should I not have 
  done an
  SU-37 to show that the YASim FDM is capable of
 performing many of the
  manuevers that the real aircraft is capable of,
 just because it is a 
  military
  aircraft, and should we not be allowed to
 investigate these 
  technologies and
  developments in FG?
 
  I think that trying to insist on a civil only FG
 seems too much like an
  ineffective and misplaced form of censorship that
 will change nothing 
  in the
  real world, and that is really where the problem
 is.
 
  LeeE
 
  On Friday 13 July 2007 07:14, Torsten Dreyer
 wrote:
   Hi,
 
   should this really be part of a flight
 simulation software? If yes, 
  what
   will be the next step?
   - Should the demolition of buildings be modeled?
   - What about humans in the scenery?
   - Any sound for this?
 
   My personal vote is please do not commit. I do
 not like it!
 
   Greetings,
 Torsten
 
   Am Donnerstag, 12. Juli 2007 21:47 schrieb
 Stuart Buchanan:
Hi All,
   
I have a patch for the vulcanb2 that causes
 the 1,000lb bombs to 
  leave
craters on impact with the ground.
   
Available from
 http://www.nanjika.co.uk/flightgear/vulcanb2.tar.gz
   
The crater.[ac|rgb] files should go into the 
  Aircraft/vulcanb2/Models
directory.
   
Could someone please commit.
   
Thanks
   
-Stuart
   
   
   
   
   
   

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  __  Die etwas anderen Infos rund um das 
Thema 

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Bomb patch for vulcanb2

2007-07-13 Thread GWMobile
Personally I would love to see online free dogfighting with guns or 
lasertag.

Its great fun and a great test of your ability as a pilot. It is also 
the best way to really understand about momentum and drag and lift and 
thrust and forces of turning etc.

Remember guys even if modeled realistically it is a sim so it is still 
lasertag.


On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 11:47 am, Heiko Schulz wrote:
 Hi,

 That's right, it's an OpenSource-Project, everyone can
 implement what he wants.
 But we don't have to forget that the aim is to have a
 civil simulation.

 I'm not against to see military aircrafts here in the
 sim, but where is the limit? Showing only bombs? The
 resultats? Or dogfighting?

 At least it is a free project, so I'm free to say my
 opinion.

 Greetings
 HHS


 --- Detlef Faber [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb:

  Am Freitag, den 13.07.2007, 10:27 +0200 schrieb
  Heiko Schulz:
   Hi,
  
   I agree with Torsten - FGFS is a civil simulator -
  not
   a war simulator.
  

  first of all FG is an open source simulator, so the
  author of an
  airplane, or contributor of code can implement any
  (legal) feature he
  wishes.

  Greetings

  Detlef
  
   --- Torsten Dreyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb:
  
Hi,
   
should this really be part of a flight
  simulation
software? If yes, what will
be the next step?
- Should the demolition of buildings be modeled?
- What about humans in the scenery?
- Any sound for this?
   
My personal vote is please do not commit. I do
  not
like it!
   
Greetings,
  Torsten
   
Am Donnerstag, 12. Juli 2007 21:47 schrieb
  Stuart
Buchanan:
 Hi All,

 I have a patch for the vulcanb2 that causes
  the
1,000lb bombs to leave
 craters on impact with the ground.

 Available from
   
  http://www.nanjika.co.uk/flightgear/vulcanb2.tar.gz

 The crater.[ac|rgb] files should go into the
Aircraft/vulcanb2/Models
 directory.

 Could someone please commit.

 Thanks

 -Stuart






   
  

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Bomb patch for vulcanb2

2007-07-13 Thread Melchior FRANZ
* Heiko Schulz -- Friday 13 July 2007:
 O.k. - but then I think (suggestion) it should be
 seperated into branches of combat, sailing, driving,
 etc...

FDMs are already separated. You have to restart fgfs to change
the mode. (Unfortunately!)


 
 I can really remember, that one of you said, that the
 aim is to become a civilian simulator - so I'm
 mistaken?

Not mistaken. Rather misled, I'd say. I follow the project since
quite a while, and I'm not aware of any such goal. The official
project description doesn't mention it either. It's true that some
people have always hated any military stuff (some of them even
hate soldiers!). Some left the project because their attempts to
force the project in their favorite direction failed. But it's the
contributors who decide the direction.

There was a kind-of consensus though, that whatever military stuff
gets in shouldn't have any negative effect on the civilian side
(which is considered more important) and should be cleanly separated.
Code should be written such that it's not forced on users, and is
of generic use if possible. That is: no stuff like a drop_nuclear_bomb()
function anywhere in the code, but certainly drop_stuff().

Of course, the most important rule is: no actual humans or other
animals should get hurt with fgfs, nor should laws be violated
(at least not those in countries with sane judicial systems.  ;-)

m.

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Bomb patch for vulcanb2

2007-07-13 Thread Melchior FRANZ
* Heiko Schulz -- Friday 13 July 2007:
 Of course it is open for all and everyone can do what
 he want. But with this way we loose a lot of abilities
 to develop.

Which abilities do or did we lose exactly? And how?



 It looks very chaotic for me - and that's 
 one point which maybe scares other people to
 contribute to FGFS. 

Coders are all the time adding new code, which can sometimes
be chaotic. On the other hand, coders are also fixing chaotic
code. All the time. Yes, there is some, but as long as you aren't
actually working on the code, it shouldn't really concern you
much. Are you aware of people who were scared away by the chaos,
and decided not to contribute because of it? Which files or
subsystems do you find most chaotic? I'm sure we can work on
those.

m.

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Bomb patch for vulcanb2

2007-07-13 Thread GWMobile
For people not interested in combat they could just declare themselves 
invulnerable and turn off visibilty of combat vehicles operating in 
their area.

Meanwhile combat vehicles could contnue to straff them invisbly as human 
piloted drones.

You just need a turn off vehicles indentying themselves as combat 
switch.
Then everyone could still operate through the same servers in the same 
airspace.

Persistance would be guided by whether the obejct was comabt or non 
combat.

For objects that are visible in both arenas such as buildings, there 
would be two states. Those wsimming wiith the combat switch turned on 
would have their software render the combat state (ok,burning, flattened 
etc) and those with it turned off would render the noncombat state of 
the building.

Pretty simple reallly.

Basically any object signing on to the server would have a tag 
indentifying itself as combat or non combat participating.


On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 1:16 pm, AnMaster wrote:
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA512

 Heiko Schulz wrote:
  Hi,

  O.k. - but then I think (suggestion) it should be
  seperated into branches of combat, sailing, driving,
  etc...
 I don't think that would be a too good idea, after all it would be 
 quite fun
 if they all could share one place. Towtrucks (driving) towing airliners
 (flying) over MP, for example. So in that case separating them would 
 make
 little sense.

 In that case we could have aircraft drops bombs on submarines. ;)

 /AnMaster
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
 Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux)

 iD8DBQFGl9XdWmK6ng/aMNkRCmHFAJ0ZHTQgU7wr6/i48ONlfJ10dyUUOQCguFrD
 R4WAwg4tY1JAp9zBs8isr2A=
 =LHcX
 -END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Bomb patch for vulcanb2

2007-07-13 Thread GWMobile
This whole idea could be leveraged to a time state as well.
This would allow people who want to do period of time simming to share 
the same servers.

You could declare your period of time of exitence and your software 
would render only other objects identifing themselves in a similiar 
window of time you specify (say ealry 1900's or 2007 our 2050)

This would be a great extension.
Buildings and other objects would have a stated period of creation date 
and then standard aging routines could put say more and more 
deterioration over the textures as they were rendered in a time period 
further from the buildings creations date or no building at all if 
before the creation date.

The simmer could define their onw window of time as wide as they 
desire.

People they see but who define themselves outside that same window could 
show up renders as say a clear outline.


For people not interested in combat they could just declare themselves 
invulnerable and turn off visibilty of combat vehicles operating in 
their area.

Meanwhile combat vehicles could contnue to straff them invisbly as human 
piloted drones.

You just need a turn off vehicles indentying themselves as combat 
switch.
Then everyone could still operate through the same servers in the same 
airspace.

Persistance would be guided by whether the obejct was comabt or non 
combat.

For objects that are visible in both arenas such as buildings, there 
would be two states. Those wsimming wiith the combat switch turned on 
would have their software render the combat state (ok,burning, flattened 
etc) and those with it turned off would render the noncombat state of 
the building.

Pretty simple reallly.

Basically any object signing on to the server would have a tag 
indentifying itself as combat or non combat participating.


On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 1:16 pm, AnMaster wrote:
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA512

 Heiko Schulz wrote:
  Hi,

  O.k. - but then I think (suggestion) it should be
  seperated into branches of combat, sailing, driving,
  etc...
 I don't think that would be a too good idea, after all it would be 
 quite fun
 if they all could share one place. Towtrucks (driving) towing airliners
 (flying) over MP, for example. So in that case separating them would 
 make
 little sense.

 In that case we could have aircraft drops bombs on submarines. ;)

 /AnMaster
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
 Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux)

 iD8DBQFGl9XdWmK6ng/aMNkRCmHFAJ0ZHTQgU7wr6/i48ONlfJ10dyUUOQCguFrD
 R4WAwg4tY1JAp9zBs8isr2A=
 =LHcX
 -END PGP SIGNATURE-

 -
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 Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take
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