Re: [Flightgear-devel] Grain texture for models - a demo
That would be appreciated. Emilian already reminded me of the normalmap feature, so it'd be interesting to compare the two and see which one I prefer. I don't know if Emilian gave you the notion that these would be competing options or not, but the notion isn't correct. You're not technically restricted to having either a normalmap or a grain texture, the shader allows you to have both, and they also do very different things, so it makes even sense to have both. Think of color variations in smoothly polished wood - these have no distortion of the normal, so you wouldn't do them with a normalmap, but a grain overlay works just fine. You might want to use a grain texture for details which are too small to be explicitly simulated by a normalmap as just color variations (because that's computationally and momory-wise much cheaper to do), but basically if you have surface structure on the size scale of your standard texture, you'd not normally use a grain texture to model them. Cheers, * Thorsten -- This SF.net email is sponsored by Windows: Build for Windows Store. http://p.sf.net/sfu/windows-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Grain texture for models - a demo
Since the idea hasn't really caught with modelers yet, I've tried to get a more practical demo of the virtue of a grain texture and tried to put a grain effect on the Vinson flightdeck (I've always felt that the homogeneous grey color doesn't justice to the details of the model otherwise). Here's a comparison http://users.jyu.fi/~trenk/pics/vinson_with_grain.jpg http://users.jyu.fi/~trenk/pics/vinson_without_grain.jpg In my personal view, this makes a hell of a difference. I'm not getting any visible framerate difference, and the GPU memory has to hold just a single 512x512 texture more. If you want to do the same detail level using conventional texturing, you need a texture resolution of 25600x6400 (I'm guessing no GPU can even process this). There's (unfortunately) a catch - the screenshots are taken on the landing strip where the uv-mapping is very homogeneous, but to my surprise I discovered that the rest of the flightdeck has a rather inhomogeneous uv-mapping, i.e. to make the Vinson really make use of the grain effect, the uv-mapping of the Flightdeck would have to be redone. Vinson crew - anyone interested? I'm happy to send the effect definition and the grain texture. We can use this whenever a model has a large crufely textured surface and just should get some hint of metal surface (or any other structure - we can do concrete or wood just as well) - it's tremendous texture resolution for cheap. But I'm a coder, not a modeler, for me things like changing the uv-mapping take unreasonably long, so I would really hope to get folks from modeling interested. * Thorsten -- This SF.net email is sponsored by Windows: Build for Windows Store. http://p.sf.net/sfu/windows-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Grain texture for models - a demo
Thorsten wrote Sent: 25 June 2013 10:14 To: FlightGear developers discussions Subject: [Flightgear-devel] Grain texture for models - a demo Since the idea hasn't really caught with modelers yet, I've tried to get a more practical demo of the virtue of a grain texture and tried to put a grain effect on the Vinson flightdeck (I've always felt that the homogeneous grey color doesn't justice to the details of the model otherwise). Here's a comparison http://users.jyu.fi/~trenk/pics/vinson_with_grain.jpg http://users.jyu.fi/~trenk/pics/vinson_without_grain.jpg In my personal view, this makes a hell of a difference. I'm not getting any visible framerate difference, and the GPU memory has to hold just a single 512x512 texture more. If you want to do the same detail level using conventional texturing, you need a texture resolution of 25600x6400 (I'm guessing no GPU can even process this). There's (unfortunately) a catch - the screenshots are taken on the landing strip where the uv-mapping is very homogeneous, but to my surprise I discovered that the rest of the flightdeck has a rather inhomogeneous uv- mapping, i.e. to make the Vinson really make use of the grain effect, the uv- mapping of the Flightdeck would have to be redone. Vinson crew - anyone interested? I'm happy to send the effect definition and the grain texture. We can use this whenever a model has a large crufely textured surface and just should get some hint of metal surface (or any other structure - we can do concrete or wood just as well) - it's tremendous texture resolution for cheap. But I'm a coder, not a modeler, for me things like changing the uv- mapping take unreasonably long, so I would really hope to get folks from modeling interested. I looked at this possibility already. The carrier deck is made up of a number of odd-shaped areas, for historical reasons. I don't think that a complete rebuild of the flight deck is worth it for this very nice eye-candy (just too much work). Alexis might think differently. Vivian -- This SF.net email is sponsored by Windows: Build for Windows Store. http://p.sf.net/sfu/windows-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Grain texture for models - a demo
I looked at this possibility already. The carrier deck is made up of a number of odd-shaped areas, for historical reasons. I don't think that a complete rebuild of the flight deck is worth it for this very nice eye-candy (just too much work). Alexis might think differently. Do you really think it has to be rebuilt? My impression was that you just need to map the odd-shaped area to a grey base texture without distortion (now it's mapped to a distorted grey patch) using the same magnification as for the main strip. All the shader effect wants is the same ratio of physical size to texture coordinates all over the deck, it doesn't care about odd shapes otherwise. * Thorsten -- This SF.net email is sponsored by Windows: Build for Windows Store. http://p.sf.net/sfu/windows-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Grain texture for models - a demo
Interesting! Any way we can see this example live? I'd love to experiment with it in the 744's cockpit, but that'll have to wait till after next weeks exams... If you want to do the same detail level using conventional texturing, you need a texture resolution of 25600x6400 (I'm guessing no GPU can even process this). You could split the deck to create a square texture of 12800x12800, which is something my (laptop!) GPU can handle. I've been experimenting with 16384x16384 textures lately and didn't run into trouble, apart from a 32bits build running out of memory when adding a second texture. But that's a little overdone for something as small as a carrier deck :-) Cheers, Gijs From: thorsten.i.r...@jyu.fi To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2013 09:13:47 + Subject: [Flightgear-devel] Grain texture for models - a demo Since the idea hasn't really caught with modelers yet, I've tried to get a more practical demo of the virtue of a grain texture and tried to put a grain effect on the Vinson flightdeck (I've always felt that the homogeneous grey color doesn't justice to the details of the model otherwise). Here's a comparison http://users.jyu.fi/~trenk/pics/vinson_with_grain.jpg http://users.jyu.fi/~trenk/pics/vinson_without_grain.jpg In my personal view, this makes a hell of a difference. I'm not getting any visible framerate difference, and the GPU memory has to hold just a single 512x512 texture more. If you want to do the same detail level using conventional texturing, you need a texture resolution of 25600x6400 (I'm guessing no GPU can even process this). There's (unfortunately) a catch - the screenshots are taken on the landing strip where the uv-mapping is very homogeneous, but to my surprise I discovered that the rest of the flightdeck has a rather inhomogeneous uv-mapping, i.e. to make the Vinson really make use of the grain effect, the uv-mapping of the Flightdeck would have to be redone. Vinson crew - anyone interested? I'm happy to send the effect definition and the grain texture. We can use this whenever a model has a large crufely textured surface and just should get some hint of metal surface (or any other structure - we can do concrete or wood just as well) - it's tremendous texture resolution for cheap. But I'm a coder, not a modeler, for me things like changing the uv-mapping take unreasonably long, so I would really hope to get folks from modeling interested. * Thorsten -- This SF.net email is sponsored by Windows: Build for Windows Store. http://p.sf.net/sfu/windows-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- This SF.net email is sponsored by Windows: Build for Windows Store. http://p.sf.net/sfu/windows-dev2dev___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Grain texture for models - a demo
Interesting! Any way we can see this example live? I'd love to experiment with it in the 744's cockpit, but that'll have to wait till after next weeks exams... I'll be happy to let you have the files - but the Vinson can't go to GIT because it doesn't really work due to the uv-mapping, and even if I get it to the point where it does (I'd have to see if I can get the ac3d license transferred to my new computer, just copying the directory isn't enough...) it's not my model and I have no business modifying it. If it's just about studying from a working example, I can also give you the extra lines for the Citation Bravo with hires stains, that's perhaps more instructive as it combines grain with other effects. Just let me know what you need. * Thorsten -- This SF.net email is sponsored by Windows: Build for Windows Store. http://p.sf.net/sfu/windows-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Grain texture for models - a demo
Hi Thorsten I can also give you the extra lines for the Citation Bravo with hires stains That would be appreciated. Emilian already reminded me of the normalmap feature, so it'd be interesting to compare the two and see which one I prefer. But don't hurry; better not send it to me before Friday the 5th, so I don't waste my precious study time ;-) Cheers, Gijs -- This SF.net email is sponsored by Windows: Build for Windows Store. http://p.sf.net/sfu/windows-dev2dev___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
