[Flightgear-devel] Microsoft ESP
This is very interesting: http://www.microsoft.com/esp/ http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,2216455,00.asp Jon - SF.Net email is sponsored by: The Future of Linux Business White Paper from Novell. From the desktop to the data center, Linux is going mainstream. Let it simplify your IT future. http://altfarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/8857-50307-18918-4 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Microsoft ESP
On Wednesday 28 November 2007 12:40, Jon S. Berndt wrote: This is very interesting: http://www.microsoft.com/esp/ http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,2216455,00.asp Jon This _is_ interesting. FlightGear (and SimGear), as it (they) are, should be ok re patents because it (they) pre-date(s) MS-ESP. We might have to be careful about major re-designs or major new features though. Although we mostly view FG as a flight-simulator it is already much more than just a flight-simulator program. Just recently we've had a couple of ground vehicles added and ships have always been a feature, albeit undeveloped ones, but even so, various possible enhancements were discussed on the lists years ago. Personally, quite apart from converting the Ford GT40 model I did years ago, purely just for a 3D picture, into a usable ground vehicle, I've looked in to adapting FG for several other rolls, mostly centered around various navigation tasks (although I've also considered doing a pogo-stick). One of the ideas I had was for a Hiking/Trekking/Orientation Simulator. As FG more or less already uses a plugin scheme for FDMs it would be trivial to set up a simple 'human' FDM - heh - or even a complex 'human' FDM, including biological sub-systems i.e. fuel(food) processing, fatigue etc. Even making the existing terrain work better at low-level wouldn't be difficult - just a lot of work. For example, just by using aggressive LOD and a wide variety of different tree and plant (sub) models, it would be easy (but time-consuming) to simulate a walk through a forest or even most other types of terrain. Rockier types of terrain would be a little harder but once again, using aggressive LOD, it would be possible to implement a fractal terrain 'roughener'. Bearing in mind that at ground level you don't see such a wide area of terrain as you do when you're a couple, or even tens of thousands of feet, in the air, I don't think the rendering load would increase too much due to the greater complexity of the local terrain. There's obviously already support for navigation - magnetic, astro also geo-feature recognition e.g. picking out terrain elevation features - ridges, valleys - and matching them to a map, so all that's needed to perform navigation tasks is a few new instruments :) Obvious, spin-offs/uses from that point would range from MMPORG games, via multi-player, to military ground-force training and simulation. Everything is, essentially, already there. If we could get the data, it would even be possible to go underwater and do submarines, and extend FG into a complete 'environment-simulator'. The troubling thing about MS-ESP is that it encroaches on our 'turf', it will be proprietary in format and it will be tied to the MS platforms and licencing. Hopefully though, it will be irrelevant to FG. LeeE - SF.Net email is sponsored by: The Future of Linux Business White Paper from Novell. From the desktop to the data center, Linux is going mainstream. Let it simplify your IT future. http://altfarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/8857-50307-18918-4 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Microsoft ESP
LeeE wrote: On Wednesday 28 November 2007 12:40, Jon S. Berndt wrote: This is very interesting: http://www.microsoft.com/esp/ http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,2216455,00.asp Jon This _is_ interesting. FlightGear (and SimGear), as it (they) are, should be ok re patents because it (they) pre-date(s) MS-ESP. We might have to be careful about major re-designs or major new features though. snip The troubling thing about MS-ESP is that it encroaches on our 'turf', it will be proprietary in format and it will be tied to the MS platforms and licencing. Hopefully though, it will be irrelevant to FG. I think it is interesting, but I doubt there is anything for us to worry about. In fact we might feel flattered that MS have followed our lead in opening up the environment to external I/O ;) My take on this is that ESP is simply MS opening up the FS-X environment to new markets that want the graphical environment, but don't like their FDM (which isn't particularly surprising - from what I've heard the FDM isn't much to write home about). Given this, we don't need to worry any more about MS patents than we did before the announcement, i.e. hardly at all. All the I/O stuff they've announced is already present in FG. I think their target market is very much the big boys - this is only available under volume-licensing, so no-one is going to be buying this just to have a play around with it. I guess what is much more likely is that some simulator manufacturers will be looking at this for their eye-candy rather than developing it in-house. Academia is another market, but that is one in which FG should be able to offer a much better solution. In fact, this might be quite an opportunity for FG - there is the chance to market ourselves as an open alternative to MS-ESP. -Stuart ___ Yahoo! Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the answer. Try it now. http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/ - SF.Net email is sponsored by: The Future of Linux Business White Paper from Novell. From the desktop to the data center, Linux is going mainstream. Let it simplify your IT future. http://altfarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/8857-50307-18918-4 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Microsoft ESP
On 28/11/2007, Stuart Buchanan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Given this, we don't need to worry any more about MS patents than we did before the announcement, i.e. hardly at all. All the I/O stuff they've announced is already present in FG. Software patents have no force in Canada in any case, and I think the same applies to most of the rest of the world -- they're a U.S.-specific mistake that a couple of other countries have been strong-armed into following. All the best, David - SF.Net email is sponsored by: The Future of Linux Business White Paper from Novell. From the desktop to the data center, Linux is going mainstream. Let it simplify your IT future. http://altfarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/8857-50307-18918-4 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Microsoft ESP
I see nothing in the microsoft esp announcement about patents. It is simply Microsoft saying we have a 3d world already done(from microsoft flight simulator) and if you want to write a simulation that uses it then we will license it to you It seems microsoft is really emphasizing the amount of world content they have such as detailed reconstructions of cities and buildings around the world as well as physics engine and connectivity to mass market input output devices. Both flight gear and x-plane and other 3d world systems offer the ability to tie in to external use of their 3d world displays for other purposes in the same way. There seems to be no specific patent claims mentioned anywhere in the announcement specific to the esp. Many companies have software patents - this specific announcement doesn't seem to increase or decrease the problem when writing software. On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 7:03 am, Stuart Buchanan wrote: LeeE wrote: On Wednesday 28 November 2007 12:40, Jon S. Berndt wrote: This is very interesting: http://www.microsoft.com/esp/ http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,2216455,00.asp Jon This _is_ interesting. FlightGear (and SimGear), as it (they) are, should be ok re patents because it (they) pre-date(s) MS-ESP. We might have to be careful about major re-designs or major new features though. snip The troubling thing about MS-ESP is that it encroaches on our 'turf', it will be proprietary in format and it will be tied to the MS platforms and licencing. Hopefully though, it will be irrelevant to FG. I think it is interesting, but I doubt there is anything for us to worry about. In fact we might feel flattered that MS have followed our lead in opening up the environment to external I/O ;) My take on this is that ESP is simply MS opening up the FS-X environment to new markets that want the graphical environment, but don't like their FDM (which isn't particularly surprising - from what I've heard the FDM isn't much to write home about). Given this, we don't need to worry any more about MS patents than we did before the announcement, i.e. hardly at all. All the I/O stuff they've announced is already present in FG. I think their target market is very much the big boys - this is only available under volume-licensing, so no-one is going to be buying this just to have a play around with it. I guess what is much more likely is that some simulator manufacturers will be looking at this for their eye-candy rather than developing it in-house. Academia is another market, but that is one in which FG should be able to offer a much better solution. In fact, this might be quite an opportunity for FG - there is the chance to market ourselves as an open alternative to MS-ESP. -Stuart ___ Yahoo! Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the answer. Try it now. http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/ - SF.Net email is sponsored by: The Future of Linux Business White Paper from Novell. From the desktop to the data center, Linux is going mainstream. Let it simplify your IT future. http://altfarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/8857-50307-18918-4 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming and the melting poles. www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images. - SF.Net email is sponsored by: The Future of Linux Business White Paper from Novell. From the desktop to the data center, Linux is going mainstream. Let it simplify your IT future. http://altfarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/8857-50307-18918-4 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Microsoft ESP
I don't see ESP as changing much. It might have appeal from some quarters, but there will still be those who want open source solutions. Jon - SF.Net email is sponsored by: The Future of Linux Business White Paper from Novell. From the desktop to the data center, Linux is going mainstream. Let it simplify your IT future. http://altfarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/8857-50307-18918-4 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
