Re: [Flightgear-devel] Multiplayer: feature request
On Sonntag, 10. September 2006 22:47, Oliver Schroeder wrote: On Freitag, 8. September 2006 20:41, Curtis L. Olson wrote: Now I want to fly this system of computers in the multiplayer world. An invisible player option (view only) for each of my visual channels would be a quick and dirty solution to my problem. I realize it wouldn't be perfect and there could be synchronization issues with the MP aircraft locations when passing between displays, but I can live with that for now. This feature can easily be implemented. At least as a dirty quick hack, based on special callsign. I've already have some code for observers in the server and will look it over. The feature is now implemented in the cvs version of the server (port 5002 on our public servers). You have to choose a special callsign, starting with obs (e.g. observ1) to become an observer. As a result you will see everyone, but none will see you. I know that this is a bit rude. I will implement a cleaner observer-mode when I've finished my patches to the new mp-protocol of flightgear. regards, Oliver - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Multiplayer: feature request
On Friday 08 September 2006 19:45, Buchanan, Stuart wrote: Two suggestions off the top of my head. 1) Write a MP proxy to run on an additional machine which broadcasts the position data to the slaves and passes through the master's position data to the MP server. Doesn't sound too unreasonable though I'm not going to volunteer! Architecturally this is nice, as from the MP server's perspective there is a single aircraft. 2) Write/enhance an I/O protocol to pass the /ai/models/multiplayer[] tree to the slaves. You'll need to decide how many MP a/c to display at once. Please don't just send the whole tree. We need to distinguish between properties that are required to display a model correct and between properties that are only there for whatever reason. It would be good if we could just use the same mechanisms to push the local main aircraft over the line and for that thing you don't want to push the whole property tree below / over the line ... Greetings Mathias - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Multiplayer: feature request
On Freitag, 8. September 2006 20:41, Curtis L. Olson wrote: Now I want to fly this system of computers in the multiplayer world. An invisible player option (view only) for each of my visual channels would be a quick and dirty solution to my problem. I realize it wouldn't be perfect and there could be synchronization issues with the MP aircraft locations when passing between displays, but I can live with that for now. This feature can easily be implemented. At least as a dirty quick hack, based on special callsign. I've already have some code for observers in the server and will look it over. regards, Oliver - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Multiplayer: feature request
I would like to make a feature request related to the FG multiplayer system: it would be nice to support viewer only entities in the system. In other words, I am connected to the MP server and receiving the positions of other entities (and possibly even sending my own position so the server knows which entity data to return to me.) However, my position is not propagated to every one else in the system. That would allow me to lurk and see everyone else, but I would not exist in the virtual world and no one else would see me. Here is my application/reason: I have a simulator here running 4 copies of flightgear. A master copy that drives the instrument panel and 3 slave copies that render the out-the-window views. I would like to connect this simulator up to the multiplayer system (which at the moment implies connecting each of the 4 copies of FG individually to the MP system.) But I doesn't make any sense to have 4 identical aircraft flying on top of each other in the MP system. Instead, it would make more sense to set up the visual channels as lurkers who display all the other aircraft data, but don't count as another aircraft themselves. Yes, I realize this doesn't address potential discrepancies as a MP aircraft flies across the border between one display to the next, but let's solve one problem at a time ... :-) Thanks, Curt. -- Curtis Olsonhttp://baron.flightgear.org/~curt HumanFIRST Program http://www.humanfirst.umn.edu/ FlightGear Project http://www.flightgear.org Unique text:2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Multiplayer: feature request
Curtis L. Olson wrote: I have a simulator here running 4 copies of flightgear. A master copy that drives the instrument panel and 3 slave copies that render the out-the-window views. I would like to connect this simulator up to the multiplayer system (which at the moment implies connecting each of the 4 copies of FG individually to the MP system.) Why don't you simply connect to the MP server via the master machine and drive the remaining displays via the '--native' I/O mechanism ? I'm pretty sure that this is the setup we ran on the LinuxTag booth. Well, I'm convinced the Multiplayer protocol, not being platform dependent, is better designed for such porpose, but at least you _could_ have an alternative. Cheers, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Multiplayer: feature request
Martin Spott wrote: Curtis L. Olson wrote: I have a simulator here running 4 copies of flightgear. A master copy that drives the instrument panel and 3 slave copies that render the out-the-window views. I would like to connect this simulator up to the multiplayer system (which at the moment implies connecting each of the 4 copies of FG individually to the MP system.) Why don't you simply connect to the MP server via the master machine and drive the remaining displays via the '--native' I/O mechanism ? I'm pretty sure that this is the setup we ran on the LinuxTag booth. Well, I'm convinced the Multiplayer protocol, not being platform dependent, is better designed for such porpose, but at least you _could_ have an alternative. But that doesn't pass any of the multiplayer information so you would never see any of the other MP aircraft in the visuals. Regards, Curt. -- Curtis Olsonhttp://baron.flightgear.org/~curt HumanFIRST Program http://www.humanfirst.umn.edu/ FlightGear Project http://www.flightgear.org Unique text:2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Multiplayer: feature request
--- Curtis L. Olson wrote: snip I have a simulator here running 4 copies of flightgear. A master copy that drives the instrument panel and 3 slave copies that render the out-the-window views. I would like to connect this simulator up to the multiplayer system (which at the moment implies connecting each of the 4 copies of FG individually to the MP system.) But I doesn't make any sense to have 4 identical aircraft flying on top of each other in the MP system. Instead, it would make more sense to set up the visual channels as lurkers who display all the other aircraft data, but don't count as another aircraft themselves. Two suggestions off the top of my head. 1) Write a MP proxy to run on an additional machine which broadcasts the position data to the slaves and passes through the master's position data to the MP server. Doesn't sound too unreasonable though I'm not going to volunteer! Architecturally this is nice, as from the MP server's perspective there is a single aircraft. 2) Write/enhance an I/O protocol to pass the /ai/models/multiplayer[] tree to the slaves. You'll need to decide how many MP a/c to display at once. Oooh, I think I can hear everyone wincing at the idea already! -Stuart ___ To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Multiplayer: feature request
Curtis L. Olson wrote: Martin Spott wrote: Well, I'm convinced the Multiplayer protocol, not being platform dependent, is better designed for such porpose, but at least you _could_ have an alternative. But that doesn't pass any of the multiplayer information so you would never see any of the other MP aircraft in the visuals. That's correct. Otoh, if you're really seeking for a 'clean' solution there are more topics to add. For instance you have to synchronize the yoke positions because you are likely to have a setup where the co-pilot's yoke is visible in the right-window view. Neither protocol will handle this. You might see AI aircraft taking off at the local airfield, an aircraft carrier or whatever else which lack synchronization as well, no matter which protocol you use. Distributing the AI stuff over the general/official MultiPlayer server might not be such a nice thing to do, so it might make more sense so synchronize the slave views locally. This still lacks synchronization of AI objects but at least you don't annoy other people which are using the MP server. Having the MP protocol extended to handle the needs of local synchronization might be the solution of choice, because apparently it puts less load onto the master machine than the 'native' protocol and it is platform independent - and while everybody is waiting for a chance to implement new features inside the MP protocol, 'they' might add a viewer-only mode as well :-)) Cheers, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Multiplayer: feature request
Martin Spott wrote: That's correct. Otoh, if you're really seeking for a 'clean' solution there are more topics to add. For instance you have to synchronize the yoke positions because you are likely to have a setup where the co-pilot's yoke is visible in the right-window view. Neither protocol will handle this. You might see AI aircraft taking off at the local airfield, an aircraft carrier or whatever else which lack synchronization as well, no matter which protocol you use. Distributing the AI stuff over the general/official MultiPlayer server might not be such a nice thing to do, so it might make more sense so synchronize the slave views locally. This still lacks synchronization of AI objects but at least you don't annoy other people which are using the MP server. Having the MP protocol extended to handle the needs of local synchronization might be the solution of choice, because apparently it puts less load onto the master machine than the 'native' protocol and it is platform independent - and while everybody is waiting for a chance to implement new features inside the MP protocol, 'they' might add a viewer-only mode as well :-)) Well, just to be clear. In my application with one cockpit computer and 3 out-the-window computers, I already am using the FGNetFDM and FGNetCtrls structures to pass data between these 4 machines. Flight dynamics, cockpit controls, control surface animations, etc. are already synced. That is taken care of. Now I want to fly this system of computers in the multiplayer world. An invisible player option (view only) for each of my visual channels would be a quick and dirty solution to my problem. I realize it wouldn't be perfect and there could be synchronization issues with the MP aircraft locations when passing between displays, but I can live with that for now. AI aircraft is an entirely different issue. I just turn all that off on this system because precisely as you point out, the AI stuff operates independently in each display and that is not helpful. There are a lot of things we could discuss with AI aircraft, but I don't want to distract everyone from my main request, a viewer only mode for the Multiplayer system. Regards, Curt. -- Curtis Olsonhttp://baron.flightgear.org/~curt HumanFIRST Program http://www.humanfirst.umn.edu/ FlightGear Project http://www.flightgear.org Unique text:2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
