Re: [Flightgear-devel] MIL-STD-1878B -- Aircraft Display Symbology
* Mathias Fröhlich -- Friday 07 July 2006 11:25: I did not yet find time to look into that. And I doubt that I will find this weekend. No problem. While comments are, of course, very welcome already, I wouldn't be all that happy about other involvement at this time, anyway. I'd prefer if I could finish all my TODOs, and only then invite people to step in. m. Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MIL-STD-1878B -- Aircraft Display Symbology
On Tuesday 04 July 2006 18:14, Melchior FRANZ wrote: * Erik Hofman -- Monday 03 July 2006 13:45: What you could do right now is committing the new HUD code [...] Done. It can be activated via /sim/hud/visibility[1] and can be used at the same time as the old HUD (/sim/hud/visibility[0]). It's not identical, but in the end it should (almost) be. There's not much to see, though. The only somewhat nice feature is the blinking g-load label (-1G 2G). TODO: - make tape work - fix the alternative turn-bank-indicator (it's also broken in the old HUD, but is nowhere used :-) - fix ladder properties - implement the other general and aircraft specific HUD configs - more cleanup - ... Thanks Melchior, I did not yet find time to look into that. And I doubt that I will find this weekend. I will be, together with Martin Spott, in Vichy for this weekend... Greetings Mathias -- Mathias Fröhlich, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MIL-STD-1878B -- Aircraft Display Symbology
* Erik Hofman -- Monday 03 July 2006 13:45: What you could do right now is committing the new HUD code [...] Done. It can be activated via /sim/hud/visibility[1] and can be used at the same time as the old HUD (/sim/hud/visibility[0]). It's not identical, but in the end it should (almost) be. There's not much to see, though. The only somewhat nice feature is the blinking g-load label (-1G 2G). TODO: - make tape work - fix the alternative turn-bank-indicator (it's also broken in the old HUD, but is nowhere used :-) - fix ladder properties - implement the other general and aircraft specific HUD configs - more cleanup - ... m. Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MIL-STD-1878B -- Aircraft Display Symbology
* Mathias Fröhlich -- Saturday 01 July 2006 10:48: On Saturday 01 July 2006 10:44, Melchior FRANZ wrote: But it's not finished, and I'm not sure if I want to waste more time. Why 'waste time'? What do you have and what do you still need to do in your opinion? You apparently missed that I had started to work on a new HUD implementation in src/Instrumentation/HUD/. It is based on the old HUD, but heavily changed, cleaned up, extended. I spent at least 20 hours work on that, and you didn't bother to tell me sooner what your plans were, although I talked about this effort in several emails during the last weeks. This was the poorest timing that one could have thought of. This new code still requires several more hours of work. Tapes don't currently work for the F16, everything needs more cleanup etc. A few FIXMEs to fix, some TODOs to do. But now that I know that you are working on yet another implementation, I consider every minute spent on mine a waste of time. I don't like to work for the waste bin. m. Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MIL-STD-1878B -- Aircraft Display Symbology
Melchior FRANZ wrote: This new code still requires several more hours of work. Tapes don't currently work for the F16, everything needs more cleanup etc. A few FIXMEs to fix, some TODOs to do. But now that I know that you are working on yet another implementation, I consider every minute spent on mine a waste of time. I don't like to work for the waste bin. I didn't have the impression that Mathias has been working on another implementation at all. He just seemed to have looked over the code and *did* try some workarounds for the HUD symbols to end up in the scenegraph. Which doesn't sound like mutual exclusive work to me. Erik -- http://www.ehtw.info (Dutch)Future of Enschede Airport Twente http://www.ehofman.com/fgfs FlightGear Flight Simulator Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MIL-STD-1878B -- Aircraft Display Symbology
* Erik Hofman -- Monday 03 July 2006 08:58: I didn't have the impression that Mathias has been working on another implementation at all. He just seemed to have looked over the code and *did* try some workarounds for the HUD symbols to end up in the scenegraph. Which doesn't sound like mutual exclusive work to me. OK, but how should I go on with the broken F16 tape?! Mathias will probably change that anyway, so is it worth spending time to fix it now? To make that clear: I very much agree with Mathias plans, at least so far as I know them. Putting the HUD elements into the scenegraph is certainly a good thing. But I don't know how HUD items shall be drawn after that. Not directly with gl* drawing commands, but how else? By moving textures around? This will never allow the flexibility that we currently have. Or by just using line drawing wrappers that can easily be switched from plib to osg or anything else, but basically do the same that they did before? In the latter case fixing the tape would be worthwhile, in the former not. m. Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MIL-STD-1878B -- Aircraft Display Symbology
* Melchior FRANZ -- Monday 03 July 2006 08:23: Tapes don't currently work for the F16 [...] BTW: the reason for this is that the F16 altitude tape uses this setting: input property/position/altitude-ft/property factor0.001/factor max100/max min-100/min /input major-divs1/major-divs minor-divs0.1/minor-divs That is, as opposed to before, the tape doesn't see the real altitude at all anymore. It gets altitude values already pre-digested by the input channel (unit == 1000 ft). Because of that, minor-divs are no longer 100, but 0.1 input channel units. And the old tape can't work with that yet. m. Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MIL-STD-1878B -- Aircraft Display Symbology
Melchior FRANZ wrote: BTW: the reason for this is that the F16 altitude tape uses this setting: input property/position/altitude-ft/property factor0.001/factor max100/max min-100/min /input major-divs1/major-divs minor-divs0.1/minor-divs That is, as opposed to before, the tape doesn't see the real altitude at all anymore. It gets altitude values already pre-digested by the input channel (unit == 1000 ft). Because of that, minor-divs are no longer 100, but 0.1 input channel units. And the old tape can't work with that yet. I *think* I see what you mean. What you could do right now is committing the new HUD code and activate it in the f16at-set.xml only (if that's possible) then more developers can look at it and try to figure out the problem. Erik -- http://www.ehtw.info (Dutch)Future of Enschede Airport Twente http://www.ehofman.com/fgfs FlightGear Flight Simulator Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MIL-STD-1878B -- Aircraft Display Symbology
* Erik Hofman -- Monday 03 July 2006 13:45: I *think* I see what you mean. What you could do right now is committing the new HUD code and activate it in the f16at-set.xml only (if that's possible) then more developers can look at it and try to figure out the problem. No, no. You misunderstand. I know, of course, what the problem is. The old tape scales were only done in the integer domain, and the tick mark positions were found with the modulo operator. This doesn't work with floats. I do now either have to scale that back into the integer domain, or use a different mechanism. I know well how to do that. I just don't know if it's worth at all. Depends on what Mathias wants to do exactly. Until now this was a bit too vague for me. m. Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MIL-STD-1878B -- Aircraft Display Symbology
Melchior FRANZ wrote: * Erik Hofman -- Monday 03 July 2006 13:45: What you could do right now is committing the new HUD code [...] ... but I should probably do that anyway, just so we have concrete code to discuss, and maye even to work on. It should just be noted Agreed. that this is still unfinished, and should be treated with caution. There are many things that I had considered too ugly to commit, and there are a number of modifications to be expected. That's fine, you've already made sure none of the existing models will be affected. Erik -- http://www.ehtw.info (Dutch)Future of Enschede Airport Twente http://www.ehofman.com/fgfs FlightGear Flight Simulator Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MIL-STD-1878B -- Aircraft Display Symbology
On Monday 03 July 2006 08:23, Melchior FRANZ wrote: You apparently missed that I had started to work on a new HUD implementation in src/Instrumentation/HUD/. It is based on the old HUD, but heavily changed, cleaned up, extended. I spent at least 20 hours work on that, and you didn't bother to tell me sooner what your plans were, although I talked about this effort in several emails during the last weeks. This was the poorest timing that one could have thought of. This new code still requires several more hours of work. Tapes don't currently work for the F16, everything needs more cleanup etc. A few FIXMEs to fix, some TODOs to do. But now that I know that you are working on yet another implementation, I consider every minute spent on mine a waste of time. I don't like to work for the waste bin. No, I am not working on an other implementation. I have expressed that it would be very nice if the direct OpenGL calls could be put into the scenegraph. There is not wasted work here. The old code needs to be cleaned up anyway. I doubt that this should be implemented from scratch in one pass. I would more favour an incremental change, may be on top of what you have now. I have also told you that relying *entirely* on RenderTexture is not a good idea. Just because it does not work on *many* OpenGL cards. If you have either some code that prerenders the hud there is no big conceptiual difference if you either render that to a texture and pin that texture onto a surface. Or if you set up some clipping planes and an aprioriate transformation matrix and render the lines directly into the framebuffer. Melchior, calm down a bit ... Greetings Mathias -- Mathias Fröhlich, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MIL-STD-1878B -- Aircraft Display Symbology
On Monday 03 July 2006 09:08, Melchior FRANZ wrote: OK, but how should I go on with the broken F16 tape?! Mathias will probably change that anyway, so is it worth spending time to fix it now? To make that clear: I very much agree with Mathias plans, at least so far as I know them. Putting the HUD elements into the scenegraph is certainly a good thing. But I don't know how HUD items shall be drawn after that. Not directly with gl* drawing commands, but how else? By moving textures around? This will never allow the flexibility that we currently have. Or by just using line drawing wrappers that can easily be switched from plib to osg or anything else, but basically do the same that they did before? In the latter case fixing the tape would be worthwhile, in the former not. I am not sure about that. That depends on what they really do. And I doubt that I will be really sure about that without a cleaned up codebase. The velocity vector for example is something that can easily go directly into a leaf node that is just transformed by some properties that may not yet exist. Some text elements that can be reused for several things can be implemented with some leaf nodes. Some ladders can be implemented with a fixed part and a movable arrow part. A scenegraph can be looked at in an other way to factor out some commonly used elements. As a first step to factor out something I tend to clean up things. That is at least my way of doing this. Anyway, the more parts we can sensilbly factor out into small modular chunks, the fewer parts must be reimplemented when we put an other scenegraph below that code. Greetings Mathias -- Mathias Fröhlich, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MIL-STD-1878B -- Aircraft Display Symbology
On Monday 03 July 2006 14:09, Erik Hofman wrote: Melchior FRANZ wrote: * Erik Hofman -- Monday 03 July 2006 13:45: What you could do right now is committing the new HUD code [...] ... but I should probably do that anyway, just so we have concrete code to discuss, and maye even to work on. It should just be noted Agreed. that this is still unfinished, and should be treated with caution. There are many things that I had considered too ugly to commit, and there are a number of modifications to be expected. That's fine, you've already made sure none of the existing models will be affected. That's how I thought about it. Either by submitting patches between us or by using cvs for that task. Greetings Mathias -- Mathias Fröhlich, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MIL-STD-1878B -- Aircraft Display Symbology
* Mathias Fröhlich -- Monday 03 July 2006 21:32: Either by submitting patches between us or by using cvs for that task. But before that we should really have a plan. I for one am against using animations and textures for HUD symbols, and also against a mixture of two techniques. An inhomogenous solution will cause nothing but problems, starting with different color/brightness. And textures are IMHO unsuitable for drawing tapes. The question would then only be, how to draw lines if not with gl* commands, and how to transfer that into the scenegraph?! m. Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MIL-STD-1878B -- Aircraft Display Symbology
Melchior FRANZ a écrit : The question would then only be, how to draw lines if not with gl* commands, and how to transfer that into the scenegraph?! You can make a new ssgVtxTable with GL_LINES type : ssgLeaf *leaf = new ssgVtxTable( GL_LINES, vertexList, normalList, texCoordList, colorList ) ; and add leaf to the scenegraph -Fred -- Frédéric Bouvier http://frfoto.free.fr Photo gallery - album photo http://www.fotolia.fr/p/2278 Other photo gallery http://fgsd.sourceforge.net/ FlightGear Scenery Designer Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MIL-STD-1878B -- Aircraft Display Symbology
On Monday 03 July 2006 21:37, Melchior FRANZ wrote: But before that we should really have a plan. I for one am against using animations and textures for HUD symbols, and also against a mixture of two techniques. An inhomogenous solution will cause nothing but problems, starting with different color/brightness. And textures are IMHO unsuitable for drawing tapes. The question would then only be, how to draw lines if not with gl* commands, and how to transfer that into the scenegraph?! Fred already told you how you can put that into the scenegraph. But one thing to think about is what I already noted in a prevous mail: May be we can implement a special leaf node that provides some vector drawing primitives like lines or something like that. Something similar is already in render_area_2d.cpp. On top of that base implementation, a library of hud primitives can be provided. I believe that many parts that are useful for a hud can be reused for mfd's. The key is that the base implementation might move into a scenegraph dependent simgear directory. The hud parts just use them. I can think of a thin layer around the opengl calls to paint lines, line strips, triangles, quads and such. That wrapper should also manage how state changes need to be done so that there is a minimal set of state changes and that the scenegraph is aware of them. Does anybody have directx experience how such simple primitives are rendered in immidiate mode? To see if this path is worthwhile, it would be good to see the cleaned up code ... Greetings Mathias -- Mathias Fröhlich, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MIL-STD-1878B -- Aircraft Display Symbology
* Mathias Fröhlich -- Monday 03 July 2006 22:10: May be we can implement a special leaf node that provides some vector drawing primitives like lines or something like that. [...] sounds good To see if this path is worthwhile, it would be good to see the cleaned up code ... I hope I can commit tomorrow. But the drawing code didn't change much at all. My changes are mostly about cleaning up the classes, removing redundant code, replacing the hard-coded getters with input channels from the property system, new XML file layout and file loading, and such things. I only started to think about rewriting the tape code. That's when I searched for the mil-std. But changing the line drawing parts with ssgVtxTable and mounting all together to a branch of the scenegraph shouldn't be that hard. m. Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MIL-STD-1878B -- Aircraft Display Symbology
On Monday 03 July 2006 22:18, Melchior FRANZ wrote: To see if this path is worthwhile, it would be good to see the cleaned up code ... I hope I can commit tomorrow. But the drawing code didn't change much at all. My changes are mostly about cleaning up the classes, removing redundant code, replacing the hard-coded getters with input channels from the property system, new XML file layout and file loading, and such things. I only started to think about rewriting the tape code. That's when I searched for the mil-std. But changing the line drawing parts with ssgVtxTable and mounting all together to a branch of the scenegraph shouldn't be that hard. True ... Mathias -- Mathias Fröhlich, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MIL-STD-1878B -- Aircraft Display Symbology
* Melchior FRANZ -- Saturday 01 July 2006 09:14: http://www.hf.faa.gov/docs/milstd1787b.zip The newest version should be 1878c, though ... 1787c, of course. :-) m. Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MIL-STD-1878B -- Aircraft Display Symbology
* Mathias Fröhlich -- Saturday 01 July 2006 09:28: So you are currently redoing the hud geometries? Possiblty some of it. But first I wanted to have the source that the original author reportedly used, because I hoped that this would make the messy code easier to understand. Not sure yet if this will be the case. What do you think about putting that stuff into the scenegraph instead of doing OpenGL calls directly? I don't care much, but I welcome every improvement that someone else does. More work for me isn't an option, especially since the scenegraph isn't one of my domains. m. Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MIL-STD-1878B -- Aircraft Display Symbology
On Saturday 01 July 2006 09:38, Melchior FRANZ wrote: * Mathias Fröhlich -- Saturday 01 July 2006 09:28: So you are currently redoing the hud geometries? Possiblty some of it. But first I wanted to have the source that the original author reportedly used, because I hoped that this would make the messy code easier to understand. Not sure yet if this will be the case. I have already looked into that some time ago. I believe I understand more or less what is done there. I just did not want to open that task with one person. :) What do you think about putting that stuff into the scenegraph instead of doing OpenGL calls directly? I don't care much, but I welcome every improvement that someone else does. More work for me isn't an option, especially since the scenegraph isn't one of my domains. Ok, lets coordinate our work :) Well, the reason I ask is that I would like to improove flightgears internal structures and interfaces so that we have less things to reimplement when we add support for an other scenegraph api. OpenSceneGraph is a good candidate. But a well separated api will help integration of DirectX as an alternative on windows for the case redmond will stop support for OpenGL like they tried several times in the past years ... I have on my local disk already code that makes use of osg with the exception of the hud, the panel the clouds and the shadows. It is faster than ssg in most cases and I believe we can make look flightgear better with a better and maintained scenegraph. If we can base the hud on a restricted scenegraph api (well ssg is sufficient - ssg is restricted in itself :) and if we could reuse some SGAnimations that already can read properties will help definitely much. I don't know if we can get that far, but may be we can use external models that are used for the hud symbology and plug them together with animations? But at least getting rid of the direct opengl calls is something useful. An other option for the hud would be to merge the hud with the render_area_2d implementation. It is definitely some kind of that. Also the symbology described in the pdf you mention is not limited to the hud. It appears to be used for such mfd's too ... Well, I have to leave now and will be away until probably sunday evening. Next week is also a bit tight for me, so I cannot help much until in two weeks, I believe. But I would like to contribute to that project ... Greetings Mathias -- Mathias Fröhlich, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MIL-STD-1878B -- Aircraft Display Symbology
* Mathias Fröhlich -- Saturday 01 July 2006 09:28: What do you think about putting that stuff into the scenegraph [...] BTW: this is already doable via render-to-texture. Unfortunately, I can't find the reason why the contents appear quite dark and the settings that work well on the 2D/3D HUD don't work there. I have this test section in the bo105's instrumentation config: hud namehud/name number0/number pathAircraft/f16/Hud/f16.xml/path x-scale2/x-scale y-scale2/y-scale textureAircraft/bo105/Instruments/hud/hud.rgb/texture /hud The texture entry defines the virtual texture path that can be mapped to a HUD (or other) face. m. Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MIL-STD-1878B -- Aircraft Display Symbology
* Mathias Fröhlich -- Saturday 01 July 2006 10:19: I have already looked into that some time ago. I believe I understand more or less what is done there. So do I. But that's not enough. m. Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MIL-STD-1878B -- Aircraft Display Symbology
On Saturday 01 July 2006 10:20, Melchior FRANZ wrote: * Mathias Fröhlich -- Saturday 01 July 2006 09:28: What do you think about putting that stuff into the scenegraph [...] BTW: this is already doable via render-to-texture. Unfortunately, I can't find the reason why the contents appear quite dark and the settings that work well on the 2D/3D HUD don't work there. I would like to get rid of the direct opengl calls in the hud. Drawing the hud with some kind of multi stage rendering is an other different thing we can think about. See the remark in the other mail. Greetings Mathias -- Mathias Fröhlich, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MIL-STD-1878B -- Aircraft Display Symbology
On Saturday 01 July 2006 10:20, Melchior FRANZ wrote: BTW: this is already doable via render-to-texture. Unfortunately, I can't find the reason why the contents appear quite dark and the settings that work well on the 2D/3D HUD don't work there. And keep in mind, that our rendertexture implementation just does *not* work on any dri driver and on any ati driver. Only nvidia cards support what rendertexture's current implementation needs. So relying on nvidia for such a central thing like the hud is not a good idea IMO. Greetings Mathias -- Mathias Fröhlich, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MIL-STD-1878B -- Aircraft Display Symbology
* Mathias Fröhlich -- Saturday 01 July 2006 10:30: I would like to get rid of the direct opengl calls in the hud. Drawing the hud with some kind of multi stage rendering is an other different thing we can think about. See the remark in the other mail. OK, so I shall stop any further work on the HUD? No problem. Done. Would have been nice if you had spoken up a little sooner. We are discussing the HUD now since a long time. m. Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MIL-STD-1878B -- Aircraft Display Symbology
Melchior FRANZ wrote: OK, so I shall stop any further work on the HUD? No problem. Done. Would have been nice if you had spoken up a little sooner. We are discussing the HUD now since a long time. It would already be an improvement to add what you have now (using properties and such) and take care of using the scenegraph at some later time IMHO. Erik -- http://www.ehtw.info (Dutch)Future of Enschede Airport Twente http://www.ehofman.com/fgfs FlightGear Flight Simulator Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MIL-STD-1878B -- Aircraft Display Symbology
* Erik Hofman -- Saturday 01 July 2006 10:39: It would already be an improvement to add what you have now (using properties and such) and take care of using the scenegraph at some later time IMHO. But it's not finished, and I'm not sure if I want to waste more time. m. Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MIL-STD-1878B -- Aircraft Display Symbology
On Saturday 01 July 2006 10:36, Melchior FRANZ wrote: * Mathias Fröhlich -- Saturday 01 July 2006 10:30: I would like to get rid of the direct opengl calls in the hud. Drawing the hud with some kind of multi stage rendering is an other different thing we can think about. See the remark in the other mail. OK, so I shall stop any further work on the HUD? No problem. Done. Would have been nice if you had spoken up a little sooner. We are discussing the HUD now since a long time. Sorry, I do not want that you stop working on that. What do you already have that is not checked in? What has happened up to now was not critical to that point. And even then, almost everything can propably be reused, even if there are direct opengl calls. I hooked in at the time it appeared to me that you started changing the geometry, that is the point that is important ... I think it is an improovement what you do. So no need to stop ... Greetings Mathias -- Mathias Fröhlich, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MIL-STD-1878B -- Aircraft Display Symbology
Melchior FRANZ wrote: * Erik Hofman -- Saturday 01 July 2006 10:39: It would already be an improvement to add what you have now (using properties and such) and take care of using the scenegraph at some later time IMHO. But it's not finished, and I'm not sure if I want to waste more time. What is it that still needs to be done to your opinion? Erik -- http://www.ehtw.info (Dutch)Future of Enschede Airport Twente http://www.ehofman.com/fgfs FlightGear Flight Simulator Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MIL-STD-1878B -- Aircraft Display Symbology
On Saturday 01 July 2006 10:44, Melchior FRANZ wrote: But it's not finished, and I'm not sure if I want to waste more time. Why 'waste time'? What do you have and what do you still need to do in your opinion? Greetings Mathias -- Mathias Fröhlich, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
