Re: [Flightgear-devel] Windturbines facing in wrong wind direction
On Wed, 29 Feb 2012 15:33:20 +, TDO wrote in message dub106-w2842f121108382786e2dc5f4...@phx.gbl: I also suspect that the speed of wind turbines is not just directly proportional to wind speed. As far as I know, the speed is generally regulated either by increasing the turbine load or by changing the blade pitch, to avoid them getting damaged in high wind. In extreme gusty gales they are probably stopped with the blades feathered. ..some are turned off by yawing the mill head out of the wind until the blade chords face the wind. It would be nice to see one or two turbines randomly stopped for maintenance in a wind farm. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Windturbines facing in wrong wind direction
On Tuesday 28 February 2012 23:14:18 D-NXKT wrote: The smoke is particle system based and thus uses a slightly different mechanism -- is the smoke really still reversed? The steam off the catapult on the Vinson is correct. Wind heading is typically the direction the wind is coming from, not the direction it is blowing to. Curt. Yup! Tested with release 2.6.0 at KSFO. Wind from 90° with 30kn. Fly direction San Fransisco. Behind the arena are a few chimneys. The smoke drifts to the bay! Use the dragonfly. You can fly with no groundspeed besides the chimneys and watch the weird scenario! Best Regards D-NXKT That's due to the particle system on those chimneys (Models/Industrial/generic_chimney_01.xml) having: attachlocal/attach instead of: attachworld/attach Also while invetigating this I found the smoke.png texture these are referencing as missing from the terrrasync Models/Industrial folder. That makes the smoke look square/ugly. -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Windturbines facing in wrong wind direction
Looks like we have two bugs here: 1. wind turbines with mixed orientations. These should be fixed in the database. If the correct orientation in the stg file is zero. 1a. wind turbine orientation and rotation/spin speed is bound to /environment/wind-from-heading-deg and /environment/wind-speed-kt which represent current wind at the FDM position. This should probably change to ground wind. The same is true for the windsock, btw. 2. Particles attached to local move against the wind on the northern hemisphere. Note: Particles attached to world (aircraft) behave correctly and move downwind. On southern latitudes, particles attached to local also move correctly downwind. This seems to be a bug. IIRC, there was a fix for contrails moving into the wind some time ago - maybe this is somehow related. Torsten Am 28.02.2012 22:15, schrieb Curtis Olson: Certainly it would seem like all the wind turbines would need to share the same alignment for them to all point correctly into the wind. The windturbine uses wind-from-heading-deg which should be correct, but also includes a -90 degree offset and reverses the sense of rotation -- perhaps to address the choice axis about which to rotate? property/environment/wind-from-heading-deg/property offset-deg-90/offset-deg factor-1/factor The smoke is particle system based and thus uses a slightly different mechanism -- is the smoke really still reversed? The steam off the catapult on the Vinson is correct. Wind heading is typically the direction the wind is coming from, not the direction it is blowing to. Curt. On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 3:05 PM, D-NXKT d_n...@yahoo.de mailto:d_n...@yahoo.de wrote: __ Argh! And I thought this issue would be fixed within a few minutes! just checked a few turbines in the Netherlands around EHAM - they all look good to me. Is there any specific example or area to check? Torsten Ok, I went to the Netherlands, too. Inspected the next windturbine I could find and it was correct!?!?! After friends affirmed that I'm not drunk or a little bitout of order I decided to do it more systematic: Scenery_TerraSync/Objects/e000n50 grep windturbine */* e005n51.txt And the result is: a lot of windturbines with orientation 0 and a lot of with 180! Picked this two: 1.) e004n51/3023736.stg:OBJECT_SHARED Models/Power/windturbine.xml 4.17551 51.92114 0 0 2.) e005n51/3040067.stg:OBJECT_SHARED Models/Power/windturbine.xml 5.973 51.048 69 180 Grabbed the ufo (Btw: is the orientation of scenery stuff visible in the property browser?) And the winner is: 1. This is the evidence! The next question is how we should proceed. a) fixing this issue in the assumption that the smoke issue is decoupled from windturbines b) first looking into the smoke issue and then fixing both A fast solution would be prefered. I can't see windturbine anymore at the moment! Best Regards D-NXKT -- Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net mailto:Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Curtis Olson: http://www.atiak.com - http://aem.umn.edu/~uav/ http://www.flightgear.org - http://gallinazo.flightgear.org -- Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Windturbines facing in wrong wind direction
1a. wind turbine orientation and rotation/spin speed is bound to /environment/wind-from-heading-deg and /environment/wind-speed-kt which represent current wind at the FDM position. This should probably change to ground wind. The same is true for the windsock, btw. Turbines should probably use mean ground wind, whereas the windsock should use actual ground ground wind (including gusts and direction changes) so that you can see gusty conditions on approach. Wind turbines are probably too heavy to swing with the gusts in any significant way. 2. Particles attached to local move against the wind on the northern hemisphere. Note: Particles attached to world (aircraft) behave correctly and move downwind. On southern latitudes, particles attached to local also move correctly downwind. This seems to be a bug. IIRC, there was a fix for contrails moving into the wind some time ago - maybe this is somehow related. Drag chute of the English Electric Lightining was also displayed blown into the wind at some point - might be related? * Thorsten -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Windturbines facing in wrong wind direction
On Wed, 2012-02-29 at 11:43 +0100, Torsten Dreyer wrote: Looks like we have two bugs here: 1. wind turbines with mixed orientations. These should be fixed in the database. If the correct orientation in the stg file is zero. I was wondering, shouldn't all wind turbines share the same configuration file? Erik -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Windturbines facing in wrong wind direction
Am 29.02.2012 12:25, schrieb thorsten.i.r...@jyu.fi: Wind turbines are probably too heavy to swing with the gusts in any significant way. Hehe - yes. Drag chute of the English Electric Lightining was also displayed blown into the wind at some point - might be related? That should be an animation not a particle. I'll have a look - thanks for the heads-up. * Thorsten Torsten -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Windturbines facing in wrong wind direction
Am 29.02.2012 13:05, schrieb Erik Hofman: On Wed, 2012-02-29 at 11:43 +0100, Torsten Dreyer wrote: Looks like we have two bugs here: 1. wind turbines with mixed orientations. These should be fixed in the database. If the correct orientation in the stg file is zero. I was wondering, shouldn't all wind turbines share the same configuration file? They do, the mentioned rotation is specified in the *.stg file (last data column). Torsten -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Windturbines facing in wrong wind direction
I also suspect that the speed of wind turbines is not just directly proportional to wind speed. As far as I know, the speed is generally regulated either by increasing the turbine load or by changing the blade pitch, to avoid them getting damaged in high wind. In extreme gusty gales they are probably stopped with the blades feathered. It would be nice to see one or two turbines randomly stopped for maintenance in a wind farm. Alessandro Date: Wed, 29 Feb 2012 14:24:56 +0100 From: tors...@t3r.de To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Windturbines facing in wrong wind direction Am 29.02.2012 13:05, schrieb Erik Hofman: On Wed, 2012-02-29 at 11:43 +0100, Torsten Dreyer wrote: Looks like we have two bugs here: 1. wind turbines with mixed orientations. These should be fixed in the database. If the correct orientation in the stg file is zero. I was wondering, shouldn't all wind turbines share the same configuration file? They do, the mentioned rotation is specified in the *.stg file (last data column). Torsten -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Windturbines facing in wrong wind direction
On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 12:27 AM, Curtis Olson wrote: Interesting -- if smoke is also going the wrong way, maybe a bug was recently introduced with wind/environment? I recall a big change to a lot of vector classes quite a while ago, possible changing from SGVec3f to osg::vec3f? The created a couple of regressions, IIRC ridge lift worked on the wrong slopes. So it's possible that this bug has been present for some time. -Stuart -- Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Windturbines facing in wrong wind direction
Am 28.02.2012 10:11, schrieb Stuart Buchanan: On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 12:27 AM, Curtis Olson wrote: Interesting -- if smoke is also going the wrong way, maybe a bug was recently introduced with wind/environment? I recall a big change to a lot of vector classes quite a while ago, possible changing from SGVec3f to osg::vec3f? The created a couple of regressions, IIRC ridge lift worked on the wrong slopes. So it's possible that this bug has been present for some time. I just checked a few turbines in the Netherlands around EHAM - they all look good to me. Is there any specific example or area to check? Torsten -- Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Windturbines facing in wrong wind direction
I just checked a few turbines in the Netherlands around EHAM - they all look good to me. Is there any specific example or area to check? AFAIK all windturbines I orignally submitted with 0 degrees orientation, until Jon told me to set it to 180 (and elevation to -); I think Jon set them all (757 in NL) to 180... I do remember having some issues with flag animations for the Aviodrome model, back in October. But I cannot recall whether it was a reversed animation on my side, or a reversed windsock direction. Gijs -- Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Windturbines facing in wrong wind direction
Certainly it would seem like all the wind turbines would need to share the same alignment for them to all point correctly into the wind. The windturbine uses wind-from-heading-deg which should be correct, but also includes a -90 degree offset and reverses the sense of rotation -- perhaps to address the choice axis about which to rotate? property/environment/wind-from-heading-deg/property offset-deg-90/offset-deg factor-1/factor The smoke is particle system based and thus uses a slightly different mechanism -- is the smoke really still reversed? The steam off the catapult on the Vinson is correct. Wind heading is typically the direction the wind is coming from, not the direction it is blowing to. Curt. On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 3:05 PM, D-NXKT d_n...@yahoo.de wrote: ** Argh! And I thought this issue would be fixed within a few minutes! just checked a few turbines in the Netherlands around EHAM - they all look good to me. Is there any specific example or area to check? Torsten Ok, I went to the Netherlands, too. Inspected the next windturbine I could find and it was correct!?!?! After friends affirmed that I'm not drunk or a little bit out of order I decided to do it more systematic: Scenery_TerraSync/Objects/e000n50 grep windturbine */* e005n51.txt And the result is: a lot of windturbines with orientation 0 and a lot of with 180! Picked this two: 1.) e004n51/3023736.stg:OBJECT_SHARED Models/Power/windturbine.xml 4.17551 51.92114 0 0 2.) e005n51/3040067.stg:OBJECT_SHARED Models/Power/windturbine.xml 5.973 51.048 69 180 Grabbed the ufo (Btw: is the orientation of scenery stuff visible in the property browser?) And the winner is: 1. This is the evidence! The next question is how we should proceed. a) fixing this issue in the assumption that the smoke issue is decoupled from windturbines b) first looking into the smoke issue and then fixing both A fast solution would be prefered. I can't see windturbine anymore at the moment! Best Regards D-NXKT -- Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Curtis Olson: http://www.atiak.com - http://aem.umn.edu/~uav/ http://www.flightgear.org - http://gallinazo.flightgear.org -- Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Windturbines facing in wrong wind direction
Interesting -- if smoke is also going the wrong way, maybe a bug was recently introduced with wind/environment? On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 3:09 PM, D-NXKT wrote: Hello, just checked the orientation of the windturbine.ac and windsock.ac(windsock is working correct) with blender: windsock in +y | | | --- windturbine in -y | |-| | | | | -- That's correct, because the windsock faces out of the wind and the turbine into the wind. The animation of both in the xml-Files is absolute identical. -- both are working properly if they have the same orientation (I assume windsock has 0; haven't checked that)! But there is still this issue with smoke. Smoke is drifting for ALL wind directions into the wind. Maybe this is another story because it is related to the particlesystem: ... program fluidair/fluid gravitytrue/gravity windtrue/wind /program /particlesystem But at the moment I don't know where the drift is made in the code. Best Regards D-NXKT -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Curtis Olson: http://www.atiak.com - http://aem.umn.edu/~uav/ http://www.flightgear.org - http://gallinazo.flightgear.org -- Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Windturbines facing in wrong wind direction
D-NXKT wrote: After a deeper investigation I found out that this is only true for the north- south direction. In contrast to this the heading in the east-west direction is correct. The reason is a wrong orientation of the windturbines in the *.stg files. Most of the placed windturbines have a orientation of 180 instead of 0 (e.g. e010n50/e012n50/3154746.stg:OBJECT_SHARED Models/Power/windturbine.xml 12.654 50.9219444 298 180)! To make them work properly the orientation has to be changed to 0! Due to the enormous number of windturbines in the scenery this should be done automatically. If anybody verifies and tells me the ID of the affected model in Scenemodels, I'd fix the orientation of all of them - that's just a very simple one-liner in SQL, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
