FLUXLIST: Jason Pierce
Dear Jason, As I said before you've made your point. I'm not going to waste any more of my time with this issue. If you respond to any more of John's work in this manner then as far as I'm concerned you can find another list to be a nuisance on and I will take the necessary software steps in that direction. Fluxlist has had too many problems like this before. I ask that the other listowners make some statement on this if they feel I'm acting unfairly, obviously there should be a group decision on this and my response now is merely to state my position. Unfortunatey I don't currently have time to say more on this matter. Jason it's your choice. I would prefer that you remain on the list and participate with creativity and sensitivity, if you don't feel you can do so then that's your decision. cheers, Sol.
Re: FLUXLIST: Jason Pierce
hi sol, i think your post is absolutely fair and i agree with you on this matter. it is too bad we have to concern ourselves with such things when there are more fun things to do. have a fun week-end, it's a holiday here. bests, carol :) S.E. Nte wrote: Dear Jason, As I said before you've made your point. I'm not going to waste any more of my time with this issue. If you respond to any more of John's work in this manner then as far as I'm concerned you can find another list to be a nuisance on and I will take the necessary software steps in that direction. Fluxlist has had too many problems like this before. I ask that the other listowners make some statement on this if they feel I'm acting unfairly, obviously there should be a group decision on this and my response now is merely to state my position. Unfortunatey I don't currently have time to say more on this matter. Jason it's your choice. I would prefer that you remain on the list and participate with creativity and sensitivity, if you don't feel you can do so then that's your decision. cheers, Sol. -- carol starr taos, new mexico, usa [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FLUXLIST: Date: Tue, 25 May 2094 21:33:36 -0400
Hello John, Thanks very much for your response. I have to confess, I've nowhere near your knowledge on the topic of Visual Poetry. Is there any chance I could get you to define what it is? I've seen plenty of it, but I would be hard pressed to describe it to someone who had never seen it before... Thanks, Pedro At 10:15 AM 5/25/01 -0400, you wrote: Dave Pedro and all: Fluxlist is not a poetry site, but poetry (that is, playing with language for a variety of reasons/ends) is a part of it as it was/is with much of Fluxus activity. A listsite is what people make of it and put into it. I have no problem with changing the name but calling it Fluxlist seems fine, as it's a common point of reference for most people in it. I don't agree that concrete poetry has aged the worst , tho. I prefer the broader more inclusive term visual poetry (of which concrete poetry is a subtype) and in my experience, visual poetry is an extremely dynamic international activity, and growing livelier every day. Its history goes way back to the very beginnings of writing, and it is in all cultures with any form of written language. Much has been written about this. It was certainly part of Fluxus, however you want to define that movement. The current period of visual poetry you might say begins back at the beginning of the 20th century with the Russians. At least the use and social/cultural meaning or place of it as a kind of outside or alternative or avantgarde art begins about then. The futurists certainly gave it a big boost. And I would say Bern Porter does visual poetry, tho he may not think of it quite that way (or even care particularly). The *term* visual poetry* is fairly recent in general usage; I'm not sure who came up with it first. I started using it maybe 20 years ago as a general term to include various things like concrete poetry, various kinds of drawn or calligraphic poetry, collage poetry, shaped poems, etc. Anything in which the visual experience of the text is a major element in the work. Of course one could say that ALL poetry may be visual in that it includes blank spaces at the ends of lines, which must be perceived visually. (Tho that can also be perceived as a marker for oral performance) Some thoughts on the matter... Onword, John At 06:33 AM 5/25/01 -0700, you wrote: not sure how to phrase this. i really mean no offensive by it and it's not a direct response to anyone in particular (i skim so fast i don't even know who's who anymore). the question is when did this become a poetry site? i'm not opposed to poetry, but it has little in common with fluxus. you could argue that concrete poetry overlapped into fluxus (a very little) but of all the contributions fluxus made to culture (performance, events, multiples, artists' books, etc) concrete poetry has aged the worst. i think of emmett williams as the only fluxus artist who would identify him/herself as a poet first and foremost. and his output has been consistently mediocre. has anyone /read/ his autobiography? his something else press years (the best things he's done) are completely ignored due to something that happened with dick higgins which he never forgave (an interesting story for those in the know). that which is included, is unbearably dull. i realize i am in the minority when i say that this list would benefit from a more historical perspective. i am not against the idea of new art emerging and being disseminated online. but if the concern is really NEW then start a new forum. why call it fluxus? it's like those boring artists on ebay who try to sell their work as genuine fluxus. it's not continueing a tradition (and who wants to do that, anyway) - it's exploitation. fluxus was just a name chosen at random,from the dictionary. there are many more. dave i'm sure this lives up to my passive/aggressive reputation. forgive me.
FLUXLIST: Re: FLUXLIST-digest V1 #708
Self Defense!!! j At 11:33 AM -0700 5/26/01, FLUXLIST-digest wrote: At 01:29 PM 5/25/01 -0500, you wrote: my apologies but i am still going to post mock poetry untill bennett stops. Aggression!!! So much energy focused into the head of a needle for the forcing of one's will. sigh Human nature? Dull , at best.
FLUXLIST: licko licko fundu for the masses [grapes, the seedless variety]
licko licko fundu for the masses [grapes, the seedless variety] Even though I don't like your recent tirade, I do like this line from one of your mocking poems.
FLUXLIST: Jason Pierce = Bully
Jason Pierce, Why you seem so invested in getting your way about this is beyond me. Try to get along with others, have some good manners, or if you can't, leave and create a stir elsewhere. I don't think anyone likes a bully. Mick
FLUXLIST: re carols response
carol, get a more origional comeback. j At 11:33 AM -0700 5/26/01, FLUXLIST-digest wrote: jason, get a life. c.
FLUXLIST: rererere sol
fine with me, i was just trying to help out some friends that were irritated with Bennets poetry bombardment. j At 11:33 AM -0700 5/26/01, FLUXLIST-digest wrote: Dear Jason, As I said before you've made your point. I'm not going to waste any more of my time with this issue. If you respond to any more of John's work in this manner then as far as I'm concerned you can find another list to be a nuisance on and I will take the necessary software steps in that direction. Fluxlist has had too many problems like this before. I ask that the other listowners make some statement on this if they feel I'm acting unfairly, obviously there should be a group decision on this and my response now is merely to state my position. Unfortunatey I don't currently have time to say more on this matter. Jason it's your choice. I would prefer that you remain on the list and participate with creativity and sensitivity, if you don't feel you can do so then that's your decision. cheers, Sol.
FLUXLIST: rerere FAPA
with a link, a fluxlister (more notably the digesters) that doesn't want to read it doesn't have to. and a fluxlister that wants to read it can. on the digest when bennett post like 3 poems on one digest you are kind of forced to read it as you scroll down. plus it just condenses the information. good enough answer? j At 11:33 AM -0700 5/26/01, FLUXLIST-digest wrote: dear sir, please explain, thoroughly, the difference that is made between posting a link to each poem, and posting the actual poem. so far as i can tell both produce an e-mail from mr. bennett, and one has the ability to either ignore or partake of both as they should so choose at the moment. perhaps there is a distinction i am not seeing? i drool on mine keys in anticipation of yer answer.. - -skt...
Re: FLUXLIST: Re: FLUXLIST-digest V1 #708
At 01:41 PM 5/26/01 -0500, you wrote: Self Defense!!! Another way to truly defend yourself would be to leave. But then, I suppose, you wouldn't get all this attention. Keep on keepin' on. You must be loving it! Deborah
Re: FLUXLIST: rererere sol
At 01:58 PM 5/26/01 -0500, jason pierce wrote: fine with me, i was just trying to help out some friends that were irritated with Bennets poetry bombardment. YES! You've said it again. The last bastion of those with no cause. A league of supporters whom no one knows! Email lists at their most stereotypical best. So much for creativity!! Deborah
FLUXLIST: rerer vote
A) should we have a vote on these issues? yea for vote nay for no vote 1) i suggest we have a vote on the whether Bennett should post his poetry with a link or not issue. actually lets not just single out bennett what about links for all aesthetic (mostly poetry) presentation on fluxlist? yea for links nay for bombardment 2.) maybe another vote as well on Bennett should quit posting so much poetry. yea for less Bennett poetry nay for continued bombardment 3) whether mock poetry* should be banned from the list * poetry mocking other peoples poetry, or any other criticism of others fluxlisters work. yea for mock poetry nay for mock free fluxlist voting deadline 1 or 2 weeks from today sat. 5/26/01 a majority of 3 nays and i will take my hemlock and be on my merry way (full compliance). as i wouldn't want to participate in the 3 nay fluxlist anyway. 3* watchout for this one, mock poetry is a legitamate, creative form of criticism whether you use the word ass or not and there would have to be an established criteria for mocking. jason
Re: FLUXLIST: rerere FAPA
In a message dated 5/26/01 3:06:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: on the digest when bennett post like 3 poems on one digest you are kind of forced to read it as you scroll down. plus it just condenses the information. i was not aware that scrolling down was such a terribly difficult activity forgive my lack of sensitivity
FLUXLIST: RE: Questions (anti-art)
A day after I posted my question, I came across the following passage in Rationalizing Culture: IRCAM, Boulez and the Institutionalization of the Musical Avant-Garde by Georgina Born: However much an avant-garde attempts to produce work that is unclassifiable, shockingly different, it is a truism that in order to be meaningful [sic!] it must, by definition, ultimately be classifiable as art by an audience; or it may be understood as the negation of art -- the reaction that the avant-garde typically sets out to provoke in the Philistine audience. The latter against art classification appears, historically, to be particularly permeable, so that by the intervention of critics, against art comes eventually to be undersood as part of art. There remains some avant-garde art that is unacceptable to all but small and knowing audience. But as long as anti- or avant-garde art is recognized as legitimately part of art by the dominant institutional apparatuses, it is granted the status of art and becomes a negational statement within the field of art: a powerful agrument for the ontological priority of the institutional over the aesthetic. So there. But what can she mean by meaning can only be found in art? -Josh Ronsen http://www.nd.org/jronsen --== Sent via Deja.com ==-- http://www.deja.com/
