Re: FLUXLIST: To Name (Beuys and Fluxus)
Eric Andersen wrote: . It is interesting that Beuys' pupil Henning Christiansen also in Germany is considered associated with the Flux network. He never was. Yes I know. I'm only pointing to the fact that maybe Beuys, from some date mid sixties, seems to only give "flux" names to the works made with Christiansen or with works related with sound. Maybe this would be interesting for studies on Beuys' work As I said, I never saw Beuys' works (neither Christiansen) as part of fluxus network, it's even a bizarre idea for me. I think this is not the thought about Beuys' work in Europe. My question for the fluxlist was if if this is the sight in USA.Sometimes, I am amazed about some views on some artists in USA only because it's very different from the sight we have here in Europe. I don't want to initiate a polemic, I only was interested in the USA views. tartarugo
Re: FLUXLIST: To Name (Beuys and Fluxus)
I noticed Ben Vautier has revamped his website check out... http://www.ben-vautier.com/ and click on ben/fluxus - lotso commentary on Beuys there...yes, indeedyand on just about every body.. PK
Re: FLUXLIST: To Name (Beuys and Fluxus)
Eric Andersen wrote: It is amazing how especially German art history has manipulated lots of people to believe that Joseph Beuys was a central figure in the Flux network. In fact, there was not much contact. And Beuys' Selbstdarstellung, Shamanism and metaphysics are really quite opposite worlds to intermedia. Eric Andersen I agree with Eric. But I wonder that anybody thinks that Beuys was a central figure in the Flux network. Well, I really don't know if that's the view from USA but I think that from here, in Europe, it's very clear that for Beuys "Fluxus" was only another tool he used to develop his own project, althought he and some other Fluxus artists met in some festivals. Some comments by Beuys himself: "...I link only externaly, for organization, but not conceptually, with the neodadaists, with the Fluxus people, who was working, most of them, in the field of Dad, and at the same time, I developed my own concept of Fluxus, independently of dadaism and neodadaism..." It seems that the use of the word Fluxus allowed Beuys to extend his own ideas during a time, through some festivals in Germany (as in "Festum Fluxorum - Fluxus" in Dusseldorf). He use only as propaganda and within the context of his own ideas and conceptual background. After the mid sixties, references to Fluxus or Flux in the title of his works became rare. (In another hand, it's interesting to observe that after this period, when Beuys use the term Fluxus for a work, this work is linked with music or acoustic elements and most of the cases, with compositions by Henning Christiansen, as in MANRESA or in Eurasientab 82 min fluxorum organum).
Re: FLUXLIST: To Name (Beuys and Fluxus)
It is my impression that a lot of people on the list consider him to be a key person in how they understand Fluxus to be. And the infamous traveling show "Fluxus in Germany" sponsored and organized by IFA in Stuttgart certainly states so. It is interesting that Beuys' pupil Henning Christiansen also in Germany is considered associated with the Flux network. He never was. Eric tartarugo wrote: Eric Andersen wrote: It is amazing how especially German art history has manipulated lots of people to believe that Joseph Beuys was a central figure in the Flux network. In fact, there was not much contact. And Beuys' Selbstdarstellung, Shamanism and metaphysics are really quite opposite worlds to intermedia. Eric Andersen I agree with Eric. But I wonder that anybody thinks that Beuys was a central figure in the Flux network. Well, I really don't know if that's the view from USA but I think that from here, in Europe, it's very clear that for Beuys "Fluxus" was only another tool he used to develop his own project, althought he and some other Fluxus artists met in some festivals. Some comments by Beuys himself: "...I link only externaly, for organization, but not conceptually, with the neodadaists, with the Fluxus people, who was working, most of them, in the field of Dadá, and at the same time, I developed my own concept of Fluxus, independently of dadaism and neodadaism..." It seems that the use of the word Fluxus allowed Beuys to extend his own ideas during a time, through some festivals in Germany (as in "Festum Fluxorum - Fluxus" in Dusseldorf). He use only as propaganda and within the context of his own ideas and conceptual background. After the mid sixties, references to Fluxus or Flux in the title of his works became rare. (In another hand, it's interesting to observe that after this period, when Beuys use the term Fluxus for a work, this work is linked with music or acoustic elements and most of the cases, with compositions by Henning Christiansen, as in MANRESA or in Eurasientab 82 min fluxorum organum).
Re: FLUXLIST: To Name (Beuys and Fluxus)
I am certainly no Fluxus historian or scholar, but my own understanding of Beuys' relationship to Fluxus is that it was fairly brief and that this contact did not have a major influence on either him or on "Fluxus" (i.e., the other more central Fluxus participants). That may not be accurate, but I am a "people on this list," and that is my own understanding. The last time I updated the www.fluxus.org page I included Joseph Beuys under the "Classic Flux Folks" heading (instead of under "Often Associated with Fluxus") because he IS often mentioned and referred to when early/1960s Fluxus is discussed. Just seems easier and more helpful to include him when offering a set of Fluxus links for people to explore than to exclude him. This also reflects my strong bias that Fluxus has greater potential if we approach it as being inclusive/open than exclusive/closed. Hell, I actually think Fluxus is still going and that I am actively participating in it. You can't get much more inclusive or open than that. It's my own private delusion and most people find it to be fairly harmless (if not actually charming). Which raises another question: So why aren't there more Fluxus artists listed on the www.fluxus.org page under the "Class Flux Folks" heading? Because the last time I updated it (more than a year ago! how pathetic!), I included as many "classic" Fluxus artists as I could find links to. If I was able to find Internet links to websites focusing on someone who or whose work is often associated with Fluxus, I included them. So the list was limited by who/what I could find on the internet at the time, by my internet-search skills, and by my personal understanding of who has been involved with Fluxus. This explains why many other more legitimate Flux folks were not included in this list ... but does not explain how I misspelled Beuys' name. I look forward to the arrival of a definitive, accurate, comprehensive Fluxus website and internet resource. I don't think we've seen it yet. For one thing, it will have to be bigger than than anything that is already out there on the internet. It will have to be bigger than Fluxus Codex (which itself only captures a subset of early Fluxus). Will Ben Vautier create it? Will the University of Iowa? I don't know. It is clear that I do not have the time, resources, background, or inclination to create it (or to keep up with it) myself (I'd rather spend the time creating and documenting my own little goofy "Fluxus" projects). When the definitive historical Fluxus website does arrive I will be happy to fold up my own home-made unprofessional efforts (unless someone convinces me before than that I am actually doing more harm than good). I would also be willing to turn over the www.fluxus.org domain name to a reputable party committed to making such an effort. What was the question? Allen B It is my impression that a lot of people on the list consider him to be a key person in how they understand Fluxus to be. And the infamous traveling show "Fluxus in Germany" sponsored and organized by IFA in Stuttgart certainly states so. It is interesting that Beuys' pupil Henning Christiansen also in Germany is considered associated with the Flux network. He never was. Eric tartarugo wrote: Eric Andersen wrote: It is amazing how especially German art history has manipulated lots of people to believe that Joseph Beuys was a central figure in the Flux network. In fact, there was not much contact. And Beuys' Selbstdarstellung, Shamanism and metaphysics are really quite opposite worlds to intermedia. Eric Andersen I agree with Eric. But I wonder that anybody thinks that Beuys was a central figure in the Flux network. Well, I really don't know if that's the view from USA but I think that from here, in Europe, it's very clear that for Beuys "Fluxus" was only another tool he used to develop his own project, althought he and some other Fluxus artists met in some festivals. Some comments by Beuys himself: "...I link only externaly, for organization, but not conceptually, with the neodadaists, with the Fluxus people, who was working, most of them, in the field of Dadá, and at the same time, I developed my own concept of Fluxus, independently of dadaism and neodadaism..." It seems that the use of the word Fluxus allowed Beuys to extend his own ideas during a time, through some festivals in Germany (as in "Festum Fluxorum - Fluxus" in Dusseldorf). He use only as propaganda and within the context of his own ideas and conceptual background. After the mid sixties, references to Fluxus or Flux in the title of his works became rare. (In another hand, it's interesting to observe that after this period, when Beuys use the term Fluxus for a work, this work is linked with music or acoustic elements and most of the cases, with compositions by Henning Christiansen, as in MANRESA or in
Re: FLUXLIST: To Name (Beuys and Fluxus)
How about some names of some Fluxist painters? Jay -- jay marvin [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FLUXLIST: To Name (Beuys and Fluxus)
Eryk Salvaggio How about some names of some Fluxist painters? Jay
Re: FLUXLIST: To Name (Beuys and Fluxus)
In a message dated 12/5/00 12:37:12 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ryk Salvaggio thanks! -- jay marvin [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
