Re: [fonc] Consolidation and collaboration
On 6/16/2011 8:43 AM, Frederick Grose wrote: On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 4:34 AM, BGB cr88...@gmail.com mailto:cr88...@gmail.com wrote: On 6/15/2011 8:04 PM, BGB wrote: On 6/15/2011 3:22 PM, Ian Piumarta wrote: On Jun 15, 2011, at 14:09 , BGB wrote: http://vpri.org/fonc_wiki description sounds like it is specific to the FoNC / VPRI projects... Sorry about that. I left the original main page, figuring that people would just start a new page and when some useful content had been accumulated we'd rearrange things on the main page. Misconception corrected. yeah, cool. (was gone much of the day, recently got back). I went and created this page (partly as a test): http://vpri.org/fonc_wiki/index.php/Dynamic_typing I generally tried to keep it fairly generic. I opted with this for the moment, rather than describing my own stuff, as I am not certain the level of project-specificness which is appropriate. ended up writing a few more articles, mostly about generic programming-language stuff, but then was thinking that maybe the point of this is not to do like a half-assed Wikipedia and describe a bunch of general topics that probably most people here already know about (type-systems, class/instance and prototype OO, vtables and method dispatching, ...). even if, yes, I found some of this stuff personally relevant when implementing my own VM stuff. (sadly, much of my own thinking largely boils down to personal experiences and trivia...). Practical experience, thoughtfully recorded, often helps in learning. I guess the alternative would be that we (myself and others on this list?) write about our respective projects, and then comment on them?... Having a glossary available for new learners is valuable, especially when terms are hyper-linked either to internal or other wiki pages such as those on Wikipedia. http://vpri.org/fonc_wiki/index.php/Glossary When we get the version upgrade, we should install http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SpecialInterwiki , which allows convenient interwiki linking. added more content, doesn't seem like anyone else is adding content though... was sort of hoping interesting stuff would pop up, and partial uncertainty as to how objective some of the added content is, where my perspective is naturally limited to my own experiences. did describe my language some here: http://vpri.org/fonc_wiki/index.php/BGBScript however, this just describes the language, rather than the surrounding VM framework in general (may go do this next). it also does not describe the language in any comprehensive sense. or such... ___ fonc mailing list fonc@vpri.org http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc
[fonc] Re: [CAG] Link list
Hmm. You know, I bet the nice folks at VPRI wouldn't mind a links page about the actor model on their FONC wiki. Another potential home for it might we Ward's wiki, I mean I'd call actors a pattern on a first try, even if it's probably more than a pattern at the end of the day. CC FONC list. On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 12:32 PM, Dale Schumacher dale.schumac...@gmail.com wrote: I'm not well-versed in the ways of google groups, but it appears to be a simple mailing list. No file storage. No permanent pages. We'll have to share content, such as link, in message content for now. The Actor References thread is probably a good place for that sort of thing. On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 2:23 PM, Casey Ransberger casey.obrie...@gmail.com wrote: No, not linked list:) Does goog groups give us a wiki? It occurs to me that my own bookmarks list is a bad way for other people to find the stuff that folks have been kind enough to point me at. If I was going to try to start a movement, I think I'd want a links page for it. -- Casey Ransberger -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Computational Actor's Guild group. To post to this group, send email to computational-actors-gu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to computational-actors-guild+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/computational-actors-guild?hl=en. -- Casey Ransberger ___ fonc mailing list fonc@vpri.org http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc
Re: [fonc] Consolidation and collaboration
I'd advocate that this is probably the most useful way of doing the wiki - put your own project intros on the wiki, it invites discussion which can be done on the wiki, and unlike forum threads, the page can be reworked to display the most up to date text, rather than trawling through an entire thread (eg. Alt web programming models thread - 80 odd posts). I'll try to put up something shortly. Cheers On 18 June 2011 18:56, BGB cr88...@gmail.com wrote: ** On 6/16/2011 8:43 AM, Frederick Grose wrote: On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 4:34 AM, BGB cr88...@gmail.com wrote: On 6/15/2011 8:04 PM, BGB wrote: On 6/15/2011 3:22 PM, Ian Piumarta wrote: On Jun 15, 2011, at 14:09 , BGB wrote: http://vpri.org/fonc_wiki description sounds like it is specific to the FoNC / VPRI projects... Sorry about that. I left the original main page, figuring that people would just start a new page and when some useful content had been accumulated we'd rearrange things on the main page. Misconception corrected. yeah, cool. (was gone much of the day, recently got back). I went and created this page (partly as a test): http://vpri.org/fonc_wiki/index.php/Dynamic_typing I generally tried to keep it fairly generic. I opted with this for the moment, rather than describing my own stuff, as I am not certain the level of project-specificness which is appropriate. ended up writing a few more articles, mostly about generic programming-language stuff, but then was thinking that maybe the point of this is not to do like a half-assed Wikipedia and describe a bunch of general topics that probably most people here already know about (type-systems, class/instance and prototype OO, vtables and method dispatching, ...). even if, yes, I found some of this stuff personally relevant when implementing my own VM stuff. (sadly, much of my own thinking largely boils down to personal experiences and trivia...). Practical experience, thoughtfully recorded, often helps in learning. I guess the alternative would be that we (myself and others on this list?) write about our respective projects, and then comment on them?... Having a glossary available for new learners is valuable, especially when terms are hyper-linked either to internal or other wiki pages such as those on Wikipedia. http://vpri.org/fonc_wiki/index.php/Glossary When we get the version upgrade, we should install http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SpecialInterwiki , which allows convenient interwiki linking. added more content, doesn't seem like anyone else is adding content though... was sort of hoping interesting stuff would pop up, and partial uncertainty as to how objective some of the added content is, where my perspective is naturally limited to my own experiences. did describe my language some here: http://vpri.org/fonc_wiki/index.php/BGBScript however, this just describes the language, rather than the surrounding VM framework in general (may go do this next). it also does not describe the language in any comprehensive sense. or such... ___ fonc mailing list fonc@vpri.org http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc ___ fonc mailing list fonc@vpri.org http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc
Re: [fonc] Consolidation and collaboration
I'm asking myself how relevant the projects I hack on are in this context. Others probably are too. Of the stuff that didn't disappear into the commercial void, recently it's been mostly Smalltalk for me, and FONC is not about Smalltalk; Smalltalk is almost a footnote here, I think. Without a doubt, the only project I've worked on thus far that even begins to scratch the surface of this subject is Cuis. I'm not a researcher, so I'm inclined toward systems that I can use today, which adds a bit of interesting tension to our approach. Basically it means that I am not currently in a position to burn the disk packs, as I intend to make a living with those disks. So we're starting with what we've got and whittling our way down to the smallest system that gives us the leverage that we already have. I was surprised to find in some cases that I was able to add features and still end up with less code than what I found when I got involved just by refactoring as I went. It's been a wonderful meditation, a much more intentional working style than what I experienced in industry. The end goals, though, are similar. Personal computing in a much smaller bag, etc. If folks took a look at http://www.jvuletich.org/Cuis/Index.html and said yes, a note about this belongs on the FONC wiki I would gladly do the touch typing to make it happen. I think the nascent hardware project that seems to be emerging before me may make interesting material for the FONC wiki, but it will be some time before that yields anything of interest beyond discussion. I'm doing library science right now, gathering what people before me were able to learn. I should really add a list On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 10:56 AM, BGB cr88...@gmail.com wrote: ** On 6/16/2011 8:43 AM, Frederick Grose wrote: On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 4:34 AM, BGB cr88...@gmail.com wrote: On 6/15/2011 8:04 PM, BGB wrote: On 6/15/2011 3:22 PM, Ian Piumarta wrote: On Jun 15, 2011, at 14:09 , BGB wrote: http://vpri.org/fonc_wiki description sounds like it is specific to the FoNC / VPRI projects... Sorry about that. I left the original main page, figuring that people would just start a new page and when some useful content had been accumulated we'd rearrange things on the main page. Misconception corrected. yeah, cool. (was gone much of the day, recently got back). I went and created this page (partly as a test): http://vpri.org/fonc_wiki/index.php/Dynamic_typing I generally tried to keep it fairly generic. I opted with this for the moment, rather than describing my own stuff, as I am not certain the level of project-specificness which is appropriate. ended up writing a few more articles, mostly about generic programming-language stuff, but then was thinking that maybe the point of this is not to do like a half-assed Wikipedia and describe a bunch of general topics that probably most people here already know about (type-systems, class/instance and prototype OO, vtables and method dispatching, ...). even if, yes, I found some of this stuff personally relevant when implementing my own VM stuff. (sadly, much of my own thinking largely boils down to personal experiences and trivia...). Practical experience, thoughtfully recorded, often helps in learning. I guess the alternative would be that we (myself and others on this list?) write about our respective projects, and then comment on them?... Having a glossary available for new learners is valuable, especially when terms are hyper-linked either to internal or other wiki pages such as those on Wikipedia. http://vpri.org/fonc_wiki/index.php/Glossary When we get the version upgrade, we should install http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SpecialInterwiki , which allows convenient interwiki linking. added more content, doesn't seem like anyone else is adding content though... was sort of hoping interesting stuff would pop up, and partial uncertainty as to how objective some of the added content is, where my perspective is naturally limited to my own experiences. did describe my language some here: http://vpri.org/fonc_wiki/index.php/BGBScript however, this just describes the language, rather than the surrounding VM framework in general (may go do this next). it also does not describe the language in any comprehensive sense. or such... ___ fonc mailing list fonc@vpri.org http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc -- Casey Ransberger ___ fonc mailing list fonc@vpri.org http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc
Re: [fonc] Consolidation and collaboration
On 6/18/2011 1:05 PM, Casey Ransberger wrote: I'm asking myself how relevant the projects I hack on are in this context. Others probably are too. Of the stuff that didn't disappear into the commercial void, recently it's been mostly Smalltalk for me, and FONC is not about Smalltalk; Smalltalk is almost a footnote here, I think. well, I think it is not strictly about relevance, as not all projects can be bigger than life or represent the distant future of computing... Without a doubt, the only project I've worked on thus far that even begins to scratch the surface of this subject is Cuis. I'm not a researcher, so I'm inclined toward systems that I can use today, which adds a bit of interesting tension to our approach. Basically it means that I am not currently in a position to burn the disk packs, as I intend to make a living with those disks. I am not a researcher either, as my main concern is also mostly stuff I can make use of in the near term. however, it is also not really the minimum needed to make a commercially viable product either (my projects consistently fail to be anything I could actually reasonably ask anyone to pay for). my stuff is also arguably not-terribly-interesting, as most of my core engineering is not too much different than what one is liable to find in many existing commercial projects. actually, commercial projects, and information released from commercial RD, is often fairly informative, and usually more along of the lines of well this is cool, and possibly also worth money. the difficulty though is realizing my own somewhat finite resources, and that I really don't have the time or ability to write out piles of code matching both the breadth and quality of commercial efforts, and in my past attempts at breadth, quality suffered severely, and more recently I have been more trying to condense/streamline my efforts, such that my stuff can hopefully at least be usable (absent recruiting a small army of developers... and probably needing some way to pay them...). I was recently trying also to make a 3D FPS/RPG game (currently nearly entirely my own code, and no GPL'ed code, so I can release it as proprietary engine), but I am left to realize that I have almost no chance of competing with commercial studios game-wise, and my current progress could be described mostly as sort of like Quake, with a fancier 3D engine, but far less functional or complete and, no one is really likely to pay for fairly generic 3D engine and DCC tools stuff, one really does need a usable game, but this requires piles of art assets and work. so, alas, not a lot of prospect for money here... quick summary: 3D engine is mostly Quake-like, currently uses Quake1/2 and Valve220 maps, and a similar entity system (Quake1 maps mostly work, and thus far have been used for testing, though fine tuning is needed in many places); the scene and BSP is dynamic, and so scene geometry can be altered in real-time (the engine does quick and dirty BSP rebuilds in the background); uses real-time dynamic lighting and stencil shadows (similar to Doom3 and Quake4, note although Source/Unreal/... also have dynamic lighting and shadows, they use a different strategy known as shadow-mapping); uses skeletal animation and similar (errm, like most other games over the past decade...); ... major drawback: have to make nearly all of the game content (characters, maps, plot events, ...) and these are not my strong areas (normally, one would have writers and artists for this part...). in case anyone cares, here is a video from a slightly older version: http://cr88192.dyndns.org/run2.avi some fixes/improvements have been made since then. sadly, trying to build up leads to a lot of need to build out as well, doing things like adding features, fixing bugs and logic holes, ... So we're starting with what we've got and whittling our way down to the smallest system that gives us the leverage that we already have. I was surprised to find in some cases that I was able to add features and still end up with less code than what I found when I got involved just by refactoring as I went. It's been a wonderful meditation, a much more intentional working style than what I experienced in industry. sadly, I have never worked in industry... I mostly have experience being a college student and wondering just what the hell I might do that might actually be worth anything (WRT making a living, ...). The end goals, though, are similar. Personal computing in a much smaller bag, etc. If folks took a look at http://www.jvuletich.org/Cuis/Index.html and said yes, a note about this belongs on the FONC wiki I would gladly do the touch typing to make it happen. seems probably more relevant than a lot of my stuff... I think the nascent hardware project that seems to be emerging before me may make interesting material for the FONC wiki, but it will be some time
Re: [fonc] Consolidation and collaboration
On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 4:01 PM, Alexis Read alexis.r...@gmail.com wrote: I'd advocate that this is probably the most useful way of doing the wiki - put your own project intros on the wiki, it invites discussion which can be done on the wiki, and unlike forum threads, the page can be reworked to display the most up to date text, rather than trawling through an entire thread (eg. Alt web programming models thread - 80 odd posts). I'll try to put up something shortly. Cheers Wiki editors may which to review this section for an easy way to insert preformatted text/code blocks: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Formatting#pre --Fred ___ fonc mailing list fonc@vpri.org http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc
