Re: [fossil-users] Improving Fossil's Look
On 18/02/15 00:43, Richard Hipp wrote: [...] will likely have a modified DOM for the web interface and thus may break any new skins you come up with today. This might be a good time to mention that I've been playing with a Material Design skin for Fossil, using the Polymer engine. There's a totally not-fit-for-consumption preview here: http://cowlark.com/cgi-bin/fossil.cgi/fhg/doc/tip/doc/index.wiki Most of the interesting stuff is in the settings pages, unfortunately, and involves forms, although there are a couple of trivial forms available without needing to be an admin user (e.g. the login page, or the Wiki search box). They don't really do it justice, though. Also you can see the adaptive sidebar in action if you make the page narrow. The biggest thing which is causing me problems is that a lot of the UI structure is hidden inside the Fossil server and is not available to the skin. For example, the Timeline page has eight submenu items, two of which are actually toggles, and the rest are state bits which interact in a non-entirely-obvious manner. In the HTML these are all just links and aren't distinguishable without prior knowledge of the UI structure, which I'd like to avoid; plus there is no way to find the labels of the other states (20 Entries vs 200 Entries, for example). I would really like any future development of the skinning system to have decoupling between the emitted HTML and the actual UI. For example, if we could add a TH1 file to the skin, which contained functions that emitted the HTML, then this would put the generated markup under control of the skin, so the skin could emit whatever it liked. I'm already doing this to generate the top-level menu. So the submenu could be generated with: begin_submenu begin_toggle Number of items to show Now showing 20 entries toggle_state 20 Entries /timeline?n=20 toggle_state 200 Entries /timeline?n=200 end_toggle [...etc...] end_submenu The default implementation would just emit the existing HTML; but a skin could override it to, say, display a drop-down menu. It wouldn't be worth doing for the complex UI elements like the timeline view or the file display, but for top-level menus and settings forms etc it would be invaluable. (Apart from anything else, that way I could avoid the horrifying Javascript which rewrites the HTML into Polymer-specific widgets...) -- ┌─── ｄｇ＠ｃｏｗｌａｒｋ．ｃｏｍ ─ http://www.cowlark.com ─ │ There does not now, nor will there ever, exist a programming │ language in which it is the least bit hard to write bad programs. --- │ Flon's Axiom signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] Improving Fossil's Look
Hello, On 18 February 2015 at 18:42, jungle Boogie jungleboog...@gmail.com wrote: On 17 February 2015 at 16:24, Michai Ramakers m.ramak...@gmail.com wrote: Talking of documentation, and just out of curiosity: does anyone know if there are plans to update Jim Schimp's Fossil book (by himself or anyone else)? I'm somehow comparing this to the FreeBSD Handbook w.r.t. FreeBSD project. I think the source of the book is available so anyone could update it. It looks like there was one update in December: http://www.fossil-scm.org/schimpf-book/timeline I'd be willing to assist in updating it and reviewing updates, if needed. thanks for the offer (to anyone willing to edit the book, I guess); looks like a lot of work went into it, and will go into updating it, and tbh I'm not the one doing that soon :-) Michai ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] Improving Fossil's Look
On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 09:12:37 +0100, Roy Marples r...@marples.name wrote: On 2015-02-17 23:43, Richard Hipp wrote: I have switched the default Fossil repo over to using the San Francisco Modern skin. Everybody seems to think it looks a lot better, and I agree. I like the look, but why the fixed width? I like the flexible width of the original skin more. +1. If possible, this might also be changed in the side-by-side diffs (which, I believe, always had fixed width ...). Roy ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users -- Using Opera's revolutionary email client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] Improving Fossil's Look
On 2015-02-17 23:43, Richard Hipp wrote: I have switched the default Fossil repo over to using the San Francisco Modern skin. Everybody seems to think it looks a lot better, and I agree. I like the look, but why the fixed width? I like the flexible width of the original skin more. Roy ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] Improving Fossil's Look
On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 00:43:15 +0100, Richard Hipp d...@sqlite.org wrote: I have switched the default Fossil repo over to using the San Francisco Modern skin. Everybody seems to think it looks a lot better, and I agree. execpt, maybe the fixed-width layout ... I think the next step of the ongoing Fossil makeover should be to improve the homepage: https://www.fossil-scm.org/fossil/doc/trunk/www/index.wiki Suggestions and especially mockups of how this front page should look are welcomed. What are the most important features of Fossil that should be front-and-center on the homepage? I feel like the front page is providing Too Much Information and that eyes gloss over when first-time readers see all that text. (Maybe I'm wrong - let me know!) So what information can be removed from the front-page and what are the essential elements that need to be retained? I've always felt the homepage is quite OK. at the very least, it will not put off prospective users, I'd say. but to guide a cursory visitor around, yes, it might be better to restructure it a bit. in this case I would stress these points in the `why use fossil` list points 1, 2, and 4 as the most distinguishing ones. the others need to be mentioned elsewhere, sure, but they are prob. not relevant for first time visitors. I think the zero-config/(near)-zero-dependencies/single exec point might be especially relevant for first-time visitors/users. one could also contemplate to just list them with a much shortened explanatory text in parenthesis and convert the items to links where the full explanation can be found (the present list, that is). then a statement `the full list of properties can be found here' or similar. and immediately thereafter a paragraph containing pregnant links to `quick start' and `concepts'. one might also try to restructure the `list for fossil users' by discriminating between casual user and advanced user, especially isolating highly technical material from understanding concepts and how to use fosill stuff. just my 2c What else can be done to make Fossil easier? FWIW: I've made some improvements to the techniques available to skin designers, and tried to write up a brief introduction to how to design new skins at https://www.fossil-scm.org/fossil/doc/trunk/www/customskin.md - hopefully this will make it a little easier to design new skins for Fossil, will lower the barrier to entry slightly, and encourage more people to come up with innovative new designs. Please read the document, suggest improvements to the document, and give a try at designing a new look if you have talents in that area. That said: as soon as 1.31 goes out the door, I'm going to start a branch for Fossil 2.0, which will be completely 100% compatible with Fossil 1.x in terms of repository and check-ins, but will likely have a modified DOM for the web interface and thus may break any new skins you come up with today. Nevertheless, I want designers to try to make skins using 1.31 so that they can suggest ways of improving the DOM to make skinning and theming easier in 2.0. I will help you convert 1.31 skins into 2.0 skins upon request. Thank you all for your attention and your contributions. -- Using Opera's revolutionary email client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] Improving Fossil's Look
On 17 February 2015 at 15:43, Richard Hipp d...@sqlite.org wrote: I think the next step of the ongoing Fossil makeover should be to improve the homepage: https://www.fossil-scm.org/fossil/doc/trunk/www/index.wiki Suggestions and especially mockups of how this front page should look are welcomed. What are the most important features of Fossil that should be front-and-center on the homepage? I feel like the front page is providing Too Much Information and that eyes gloss over when first-time readers see all that text. (Maybe I'm wrong - let me know!) So what information can be removed from the front-page and what are the essential elements that need to be retained? I discovered there are many duplicate links on /index.wiki: FAQ FAQ --- Quick Start Quick Start guide to using fossil --- Bug Tracking And Wiki The concepts behind fossil This entire website (except the download page) is just a running instance of Fossil. The pages you see here are all wiki or embedded documentation. When you clone Fossil from one of its self-hosting repositories, you get more than just source code - you get this entire website. Fossil supports embedded documentation that is versioned along with project source code. --- Robust Reliable - Fossil stores content using an enduring file format Fossil uses an enduring file format that is designed to be readable, searchable, and extensible by people not yet born. The file format used by every content file stored in the repository. --- Autosync: branching A tutorial on branching, what it means and how to do it using fossil. -- Robust Reliable: selfcheck.wiki The automatic self-check mechanism helps insure project integrity. -- Bug Tracking And Wikiwikitheory pages you see here are all wiki Fossil contains a built-in wiki. -- distributed blog mechanism all in a single integrated package.: event.wiki An Event is a special kind of wiki page associated with a point in time rather than a name. -- CGI/SCGI Enabled: server.wiki How to set up a server for your repository. -- The file format used by every content file stored in the repository. content using an enduring file format Most of the duplicates are found under 'Links For Fossil Users', which are in the 'why use fossil' section. pages to update: https://www.fossil-scm.org/fossil/doc/trunk/www/stats.wiki https://www.fossil-scm.org/fossil/doc/trunk/www/password.wiki https://www.fossil-scm.org/fossil/doc/trunk/www/index.wiki An Event is a special kind of wiki page associated with a point in time rather than a name. --- inum: 883510009027723 sip: jungleboo...@sip2sip.info xmpp: jungle-boo...@jit.si ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] Improving Fossil's Look
Hi Michai, On 17 February 2015 at 16:24, Michai Ramakers m.ramak...@gmail.com wrote: Talking of documentation, and just out of curiosity: does anyone know if there are plans to update Jim Schimp's Fossil book (by himself or anyone else)? I'm somehow comparing this to the FreeBSD Handbook w.r.t. FreeBSD project. I think the source of the book is available so anyone could update it. It looks like there was one update in December: http://www.fossil-scm.org/schimpf-book/timeline I'd be willing to assist in updating it and reviewing updates, if needed. -- --- inum: 883510009027723 sip: jungleboo...@sip2sip.info xmpp: jungle-boo...@jit.si ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] Improving Fossil's Look
Thus said Richard Hipp on Tue, 17 Feb 2015 18:43:15 -0500: I have switched the default Fossil repo over to using the San Francisco Modern skin. Everybody seems to think it looks a lot better, and I agree. It does look better, but it lacks a background color. :-) Andy -- TAI64 timestamp: 400054e57d8f ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] Improving Fossil's Look
Hello, On 18 February 2015 at 00:43, Richard Hipp d...@sqlite.org wrote: I think the next step of the ongoing Fossil makeover should be to improve the homepage: https://www.fossil-scm.org/fossil/doc/trunk/www/index.wiki Suggestions and especially mockups of how this front page should look are welcomed. What are the most important features of Fossil that should be front-and-center on the homepage? I feel like the front page is providing Too Much Information and that eyes gloss over when first-time readers see all that text. (Maybe I'm wrong - let me know!) So what information can be removed from the front-page and what are the essential elements that need to be retained? To reduce text with minimal effort, perhaps - move the Links For Fossil Developer section into the Hacker How-To page, - move the current Why use Fossil? section into its own page, and keep a more minimal version of it on the main page, with for each feature/bulletpoint a 1-sentence description and a link (to an anchor?) to the original Why use Fossil? section/page. - merge 'Change Log' and Recent changes right-hand menu items (perhaps a link to the timeline at the top of the changelog-page?), and name it Recent changes - for novices there is perhaps no obvious difference between the two. IMHO the Links for Fossil users section on the home-page is just fine, as it serves as a place to put arbitrary often-used links in one list (duh :-) Talking of documentation, and just out of curiosity: does anyone know if there are plans to update Jim Schimp's Fossil book (by himself or anyone else)? I'm somehow comparing this to the FreeBSD Handbook w.r.t. FreeBSD project. Michai ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] Improving Fossil's Look
Dr. Hipp, On 17 February 2015 at 15:43, Richard Hipp d...@sqlite.org wrote: I have switched the default Fossil repo over to using the San Francisco Modern skin. Everybody seems to think it looks a lot better, and I agree. I like the switch! I noticed there is no download in the menu bar and the download link on the main page directs to the legacy skin: http://www.fossil-scm.org/download.html I don't know if either/both of these are intentional, just reporting what's different. I think the next step of the ongoing Fossil makeover should be to improve the homepage: https://www.fossil-scm.org/fossil/doc/trunk/www/index.wiki Suggestions and especially mockups of how this front page should look are welcomed. Regarding the main page, perhaps consideration on re-organization of the numbered list. I think the fact that Fossil is self contained is highly appealing BECAUSE it auto-syncs, inbuilt web interface, DB backed, etc. I do like the list numbered and the features bold--easy to follow the flow. I like Michai's response on merging some items and moving many of the link under 'Links For Fossil Developer' elsewhere but I also like 'A Technical Overview Of Fossil.' displayed (by the way, drop that period, ;) and here too 'Thoughts On The Design Of Fossil.') It looks like this page can be updated (referred from /index.wiki): http://www.fossil-scm.org/fossil/doc/trunk/www/hints.wiki Unfortunately, I don't know either VCS well enough to know if we can update this page: http://www.fossil-scm.org/fossil/doc/trunk/www/fossil-v-git.wiki But the news/blog can be updated to tech-notes now. It seems 'Quick Start' and 'Up and running in 5 minutes as a single user' could be merged. IME, license pages are /LICENSE or /license. Here, it's: /COPYRIGHT-BSD2.txt Suggested correction: https://www.fossil-scm.org/fossil/doc/trunk/www/faq.wiki How do I create a private branch that won't get pushed back to the main repository. How do I create a private branch that won't get pushed back to the main repository? Maybe could have a FAQ on drive-by patching, too! Is there a 'why did you create fossil' page? If not, you could list out the seven items from /index.wiki and explain that as well as CVS wasn't suiting your needs, etc. FAQ is on /index.wiki twice. Maybe on the FAQ (or homepage) information on how to create new users and discuss roles. For git, I don't know how access to repos is accomplished. I think people have to exchange ssh keys or something. Maybe that can be a bullet point on /fossil-v-git.wiki Creating accounts in SVN is not easy and with fossil, its like making an email account. If people are looking for a VCS, they'll either be using one already or looking for a new one. I think making the switch would be very easy if the page for SVN fossil, git fossil, CVS fossil were easy to find. So maybe something like that can be on the index.wiki page. Put /sitemap and timeline.rss on the /index.wiki since it's absent. I'll probably suggest more later! Thank you all for your attention and your contributions. Thank you for creating Fossil! -- D. Richard Hipp d...@sqlite.org -- --- inum: 883510009027723 sip: jungleboo...@sip2sip.info xmpp: jungle-boo...@jit.si ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
[fossil-users] Improving Fossil's Look
I have switched the default Fossil repo over to using the San Francisco Modern skin. Everybody seems to think it looks a lot better, and I agree. I think the next step of the ongoing Fossil makeover should be to improve the homepage: https://www.fossil-scm.org/fossil/doc/trunk/www/index.wiki Suggestions and especially mockups of how this front page should look are welcomed. What are the most important features of Fossil that should be front-and-center on the homepage? I feel like the front page is providing Too Much Information and that eyes gloss over when first-time readers see all that text. (Maybe I'm wrong - let me know!) So what information can be removed from the front-page and what are the essential elements that need to be retained? What else can be done to make Fossil easier? FWIW: I've made some improvements to the techniques available to skin designers, and tried to write up a brief introduction to how to design new skins at https://www.fossil-scm.org/fossil/doc/trunk/www/customskin.md - hopefully this will make it a little easier to design new skins for Fossil, will lower the barrier to entry slightly, and encourage more people to come up with innovative new designs. Please read the document, suggest improvements to the document, and give a try at designing a new look if you have talents in that area. That said: as soon as 1.31 goes out the door, I'm going to start a branch for Fossil 2.0, which will be completely 100% compatible with Fossil 1.x in terms of repository and check-ins, but will likely have a modified DOM for the web interface and thus may break any new skins you come up with today. Nevertheless, I want designers to try to make skins using 1.31 so that they can suggest ways of improving the DOM to make skinning and theming easier in 2.0. I will help you convert 1.31 skins into 2.0 skins upon request. Thank you all for your attention and your contributions. -- D. Richard Hipp d...@sqlite.org ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] Improving Fossil's Look
Fossil's logo should be changed to the same blue tone that is used by the skin :) Regards, Stan Stanislav Paskalev On Wed, Feb 18, 2015 at 4:18 AM, jungle Boogie jungleboog...@gmail.com wrote: Dr. Hipp, On 17 February 2015 at 15:43, Richard Hipp d...@sqlite.org wrote: I have switched the default Fossil repo over to using the San Francisco Modern skin. Everybody seems to think it looks a lot better, and I agree. I like the switch! I noticed there is no download in the menu bar and the download link on the main page directs to the legacy skin: http://www.fossil-scm.org/download.html I don't know if either/both of these are intentional, just reporting what's different. I think the next step of the ongoing Fossil makeover should be to improve the homepage: https://www.fossil-scm.org/fossil/doc/trunk/www/index.wiki Suggestions and especially mockups of how this front page should look are welcomed. Regarding the main page, perhaps consideration on re-organization of the numbered list. I think the fact that Fossil is self contained is highly appealing BECAUSE it auto-syncs, inbuilt web interface, DB backed, etc. I do like the list numbered and the features bold--easy to follow the flow. I like Michai's response on merging some items and moving many of the link under 'Links For Fossil Developer' elsewhere but I also like 'A Technical Overview Of Fossil.' displayed (by the way, drop that period, ;) and here too 'Thoughts On The Design Of Fossil.') It looks like this page can be updated (referred from /index.wiki): http://www.fossil-scm.org/fossil/doc/trunk/www/hints.wiki Unfortunately, I don't know either VCS well enough to know if we can update this page: http://www.fossil-scm.org/fossil/doc/trunk/www/fossil-v-git.wiki But the news/blog can be updated to tech-notes now. It seems 'Quick Start' and 'Up and running in 5 minutes as a single user' could be merged. IME, license pages are /LICENSE or /license. Here, it's: /COPYRIGHT-BSD2.txt Suggested correction: https://www.fossil-scm.org/fossil/doc/trunk/www/faq.wiki How do I create a private branch that won't get pushed back to the main repository. How do I create a private branch that won't get pushed back to the main repository? Maybe could have a FAQ on drive-by patching, too! Is there a 'why did you create fossil' page? If not, you could list out the seven items from /index.wiki and explain that as well as CVS wasn't suiting your needs, etc. FAQ is on /index.wiki twice. Maybe on the FAQ (or homepage) information on how to create new users and discuss roles. For git, I don't know how access to repos is accomplished. I think people have to exchange ssh keys or something. Maybe that can be a bullet point on /fossil-v-git.wiki Creating accounts in SVN is not easy and with fossil, its like making an email account. If people are looking for a VCS, they'll either be using one already or looking for a new one. I think making the switch would be very easy if the page for SVN fossil, git fossil, CVS fossil were easy to find. So maybe something like that can be on the index.wiki page. Put /sitemap and timeline.rss on the /index.wiki since it's absent. I'll probably suggest more later! Thank you all for your attention and your contributions. Thank you for creating Fossil! -- D. Richard Hipp d...@sqlite.org -- --- inum: 883510009027723 sip: jungleboo...@sip2sip.info xmpp: jungle-boo...@jit.si ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
