Re: [Foundation-l] Wikimedia Foundation switching to Google Apps?
On 26 October 2010 13:23, Nathan nawr...@gmail.com wrote: I don't know about anyone else, but I couldn't possibly care less what office software the Foundation uses. I suppose the paranoid conspiracy theory of a Google takeover fueled by illicit access to WMF data doesn't strike me as remotely realistic. Nathan +1 It is very important that all software used in the direct delivery of the Wikimedia projects is F/LOSS but I don't see why that requires the WMF (or Chapters) to not be allowed to used proprietary software for the other elements necessary to run the organisational side of things (as mentioned: email, calendars, documents). The WMF (and chapters) use open source systems for these things when possible (e.g. Linux OS, CiviCRM for fundraising, OpenOffice for wordprocessing). But this shouldn't mean that proprietary systems are not allowed when they get these organisational functions done well/better. -Liam wittylama.com/blog Peace, love metadata ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Wikimedia Foundation switching to Google Apps?
On 26 October 2010 11:00, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: On 26 October 2010 14:23, Nathan nawr...@gmail.com wrote: I don't know about anyone else, but I couldn't possibly care less what office software the Foundation uses. I suppose the paranoid conspiracy theory of a Google takeover fueled by illicit access to WMF data doesn't strike me as remotely realistic. Google's greatest weakness is in the privacy sector. Anyone remember when they turned on Buzz and suddenly there was all kinds of personal information made available because they linked people's multiple accounts? Well, the same thing holds for all their other applications. One might think that people operating within the WMF, and in the higher levels of the chapters, are likely to have publicly linked their real life names with their wiki-identities, but that is not always the case; there are definitely chapter-level people who have not done so. Maintaining that separation is very difficult and needs to be checked on a regular basis, since Google changes their algorithm periodically. Using Google Apps may have the unintentional side effect of deterring valuable contributors from participating in certain activities. Certainly, oversighters on English Wikipedia have had to deal with the fallout of personal information being unintentionally revealed by editors who were unaware of this situation with Google. When we are providing information on how to address perceived privacy violations, we include a recommendation to those who use Gmail to review all of their Google-related accounts and ensure that they remove all links. Risker/Anne ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
[Foundation-l] Wikimedia Audited Financial Statements for 2009-10 Fiscal Year Now Available
I am pleased to announce that the Wikimedia Foundation's audited financial statements for the years ended June 30, 2010 and 2009 are available on the Foundation wiki at: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/foundation/c/cc/FINAL_09_10From_KPMG.pdf In anticipation of any questions, we have also prepared a Question and Answer sheet also posted on the Foundation wiki at: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/2009-2010_Financial_Statements_Questions_and_Answers I am happy to answer any questions you might have. Veronique ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Misplaced Reliance, was Re: Paid editing, was Re: Ban and...
Forget medical information. How about making a plane that won't fall out of thesky? http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/oct/26/kenya-plane-homemade I *facepalm*ed. ENGINEER HUBRIS IS NOT WHAT WIKIPEDIA IS FOR! - d. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Misplaced Reliance, was Re: Paid editing, was Re: Ban and...
David Gerard wrote: Forget medical information. How about making a plane that won't fall out of thesky? http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/oct/26/kenya-plane-homemade I *facepalm*ed. ENGINEER HUBRIS IS NOT WHAT WIKIPEDIA IS FOR! No, but it's what much of Wikipedia was written with. --Michael Snow ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Misplaced Reliance, was Re: Paid editing, was Re: Ban and...
On 26 October 2010 20:30, Michael Snow wikipe...@frontier.com wrote: David Gerard wrote: I *facepalm*ed. ENGINEER HUBRIS IS NOT WHAT WIKIPEDIA IS FOR! No, but it's what much of Wikipedia was written with. +1 Actually, it was the computer stuff that was the first area of Wikipedia that I found actually useful as a first place to look. Now it's *everything*, and I am daily awed at the utterly breathtaking thing that we have, in fact, built here. There's a place for applied engineer hubris[1]. With due caution. - d. [1] http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/engineers%20and%20woo ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Misplaced Reliance, was Re: Paid editing, was Re: Ban and...
On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 12:38 PM, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: There's a place for applied engineer hubris[1]. With due caution. - d. [1] http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/engineers%20and%20woo (grump) While generally true, there's a lack of regard there for engineering-oriented polymaths. -- -george william herbert george.herb...@gmail.com ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Misplaced Reliance, was Re: Paid editing, was Re: Ban and...
On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 13:38, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: On 26 October 2010 20:30, Michael Snow wikipe...@frontier.com wrote: David Gerard wrote: I *facepalm*ed. ENGINEER HUBRIS IS NOT WHAT WIKIPEDIA IS FOR! No, but it's what much of Wikipedia was written with. This is the kind of test of our accuracy we really don't want. :) ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Misplaced Reliance, was Re: Paid editing, was Re: Ban and...
In a message dated 10/26/2010 1:14:58 PM Pacific Daylight Time, slimvir...@gmail.com writes: This is the kind of test of our accuracy we really don't want. :) There you go using that A word again. W ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Wikimedia Foundation switching to Google Apps?
Nathan wrote: I don't know about anyone else, but I couldn't possibly care less what office software the Foundation uses. I suppose the paranoid conspiracy theory of a Google takeover fueled by illicit access to WMF data doesn't strike me as remotely realistic. There was a story about a month ago in which a Google employee was fired for snooping on e-mail of minors he had befriended.[1] I think the part that struck me most about the story was that the employee apparently wasn't very high up in the company, but still had the ability to read people's e-mails, their Gtalk conversations, and even get their phone numbers, according to the articles published about the incident. Perhaps it's very unlikely that Google would snoop on Wikimedia's e-mail, I can't say one way or another. I can say that I was disturbed by the news story and I can say that Google definitely has a business interest here (anyone remember Knol?). Perhaps Google Apps has some terrific benefits that Wikimedia sorely needs; that was the reason I asked what benefits Wikimedia saw in migrating their systems in my original post. However, from where I'm standing, the cost versus benefits simply don't add up, particularly when you consider what impact this might have from a public relations/perceptions standpoint. I think the broader issue of Wikimedia using non-open source software is one that needs clarification, as it still seems very murky to me. MZMcBride [1] http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/google-enginee r-fired-for-snooping-on-emails-2080464.html ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Wikimedia Foundation switching to Google Apps?
On 26 October 2010 21:30, MZMcBride z...@mzmcbride.com wrote: Perhaps Google Apps has some terrific benefits that Wikimedia sorely needs; that was the reason I asked what benefits Wikimedia saw in migrating their systems in my original post. However, from where I'm standing, the cost versus benefits simply don't add up, particularly when you consider what impact this might have from a public relations/perceptions standpoint. Gmail is just ridiculously better than any other email client I've ever used ever, having previously progressed through Pine, elm, mutt and Thunderbird. Perhaps it's just me, but I'd guess otherwise from the number of Wikimedians with gmail,com addresses. free Google Docs is ridiculously usable for real-time collaboration. More so than anything I've ever used. I suggest it's quite plausible that the Google versions are so far ahead of self-hosted open source equivalents that we'd be crippling ourselves. I think the broader issue of Wikimedia using non-open source software is one that needs clarification, as it still seems very murky to me. It is, of course, quite possible that we should in fact use less good open source equivalents, even if we would be near-crippling ourselves. We're not the FSF and our technology policy isn't set by Richard Stallman. That said, RMS does have the important plus point of having been pretty much right about most things, so we would be very foolish indeed to disregard what I will term the rabid free/open source software position out of hand. Wikimedia is a creature of the broader free culture movement. Erik Moeller, a Wikimedian since the wikipedia.com days and currently WMF deputy CEO, *wrote* the Free Content Definition. We're aggressively neutral about most things, but our essential values stand foursquare for the ideals of that movement: more freedom, more information, refusal of strings attached. I suppose I'm saying that it's a tricky one. I have a pretty much entirely free software desktop (except Opera for browser checking and Lotus Notes for work [1]) but I still live in my Gmail, and it'd utterly bugger my ability to keep up with my email to give it up, - d. [1] http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Lotus_Notes ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Misplaced Reliance, was Re: Paid editing, was Re: Ban and...
On 26 October 2010 20:49, George Herbert george.herb...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 12:38 PM, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: There's a place for applied engineer hubris[1]. With due caution. [1] http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/engineers%20and%20woo (grump) While generally true, there's a lack of regard there for engineering-oriented polymaths. Well, I did two years of engineering myself, and RW is not short of engineers ;-) - d. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Wikimedia Foundation switching to Google Apps?
2010/10/26 David Gerard dger...@gmail.com: Gmail is just ridiculously better than any other email client I've ever used ever, having previously progressed through Pine, elm, mutt and Thunderbird. Perhaps it's just me, but I'd guess otherwise from the number of Wikimedians with gmail,com addresses. free Google Docs is ridiculously usable for real-time collaboration. More so than anything I've ever used. I suggest it's quite plausible that the Google versions are so far ahead of self-hosted open source equivalents that we'd be crippling ourselves. That's the gist of it. Our general policy is to be as open on internal tools as reasonably possible, which includes giving people an Ubuntu laptop even if they've only ever seen that name on a restaurant in Napa. [1] It also includes pretty substantial investment in some open tools where we can make a significant difference through our adoption and support, e.g. CiviCRM. We've still got lots of Macs, but are gradually moving away from them where we can; we've standardized on OpenOffice.org (soon LibreOffice?) for formatting documents, and of course we use wikis extensively for sustained collaboration. I've started a page a while ago to publicly document the internal tools use of WMF and other players in the Wikimedia movement: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/FLOSS-Exchange We've recommended Thunderbird in the past (with some folks sticking with GMail, yours truly included), but unfortunately it doesn't meet all our needs. We're reluctantly switching to GMail as the standard email solution, but we'd love to switch to an open solution in future. Jon Davis can elaborate a bit on the assessment process. Naturally folks will be able to continue to use open source clients. Google Docs is a great collaborative drafting tool (as is Etherpad, which is open), but I don't want us to become dependent on it -- for any document that needs to be worked on over sustained periods of time, it ends up being moved out of GD. I'd love to see at least a basic MediaWiki/Etherpad integration, it would give MW a huge productivity boost for real-time note-taking and collaboration. [1] http://www.yelp.com/biz/ubuntu-restaurant-and-yoga-studio-napa -- Erik Möller Deputy Director, Wikimedia Foundation Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Wikimedia Foundation switching to Google Apps?
On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 4:43 PM, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: Gmail is just ridiculously better than any other email client I've ever used ever, having previously progressed through Pine, elm, mutt and Thunderbird. Perhaps it's just me, but I'd guess otherwise from the number of Wikimedians with gmail,com addresses. Well, yeah, that's why I forward my email to gmail. But I can't imagine using them for my domain's MX record. I'd want more control and flexibility than that. As a related anecdote, the IRS recently banned gmail addresses when signing up for a preparer identification number, because Google was sending their registration password emails to the bit bucket (no, not to the spam folder, the emails were just disappearing, even if you explicitly added a filter not to send them to spam). See http://www.google.co.nz/support/forum/p/gmail/thread?tid=4e489afd6114c49ahl=en On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 5:01 PM, Erik Moeller e...@wikimedia.org wrote: We're reluctantly switching to GMail as the standard email solution, but we'd love to switch to an open solution in future. Is this going to affect the mailing lists? OTRS? Is the WMF paying for this? What are the service guarantees? I'd imagine no on the former. Being able to add the Wikimedia Foundation to the list of people who have gone Google will be a huge coup. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Wikimedia Foundation switching to Google Apps?
On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 5:20 PM, Jon Davis jda...@wikimedia.org wrote: When we wanted to pursue the Google Apps project further, we contacted a sales rep. In the end, we went through the process like any other group would, and we pay the standard price. Wow. The standard price? Is the person who negotiated that deal the same one that just recently got fired?/sarcasm ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Wikimedia Foundation switching to Google Apps?
On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 5:26 PM, Jon Davis jda...@wikimedia.org wrote: This migration will not effect anything but Staff email. OTRS, wiki's, mailing lists and anything else I've forgotten to mention will continue to work as they did previously. Are the MX records going to point to WMF, or to Google? For which domains? As for paying, Yes we are. As for the SLA, the standard [1] 43 minutes of downtime allowed every month... 7.2 hours of downtime gets you a 10% refund. If you're down for 1 1/2 days, you get 25% of your monthly fees back. Down more than that, and you get half your money back. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Wikimedia Foundation switching to Google Apps?
The MX records point to McHenry (WMF). At this point mail is sorted and sent to the correct locations (Be it OTRS, Mailing Lists or Google Apps). -Jon On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 14:31, Anthony wikim...@inbox.org wrote: On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 5:26 PM, Jon Davis jda...@wikimedia.org wrote: This migration will not effect anything but Staff email. OTRS, wiki's, mailing lists and anything else I've forgotten to mention will continue to work as they did previously. Are the MX records going to point to WMF, or to Google? For which domains? As for paying, Yes we are. As for the SLA, the standard [1] 43 minutes of downtime allowed every month... 7.2 hours of downtime gets you a 10% refund. If you're down for 1 1/2 days, you get 25% of your monthly fees back. Down more than that, and you get half your money back. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Wikimedia Foundation switching to Google Apps?
Erik Moeller, 26/10/2010 23:01: We've recommended Thunderbird in the past (with some folks sticking with GMail, yours truly included), but unfortunately it doesn't meet all our needs. Why? Google Docs is a great collaborative drafting tool (as is Etherpad, which is open), but I don't want us to become dependent on it -- for any document that needs to be worked on over sustained periods of time, it ends up being moved out of GD. I'd love to see at least a basic MediaWiki/Etherpad integration, it would give MW a huge productivity boost for real-time note-taking and collaboration. There are lots of things on our Etherpad which should be eventually copied on some wiki to be organized and easily findable. (Should we suppose that Etherpad texts are CC-By-SA?) Actually, I've watched some etherpad history replays and I've seen simple patterns of a number of edits by an user and then a number of edits by another user (even on another section): nothing you can't easily do on MediaWiki. Nemo ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Wikimedia Foundation switching to Google Apps?
Jon Davis wrote (among other things): On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 17:22, MZMcBride z...@mzmcbride.com wrote: I had a few questions about this migration. Has the decision to use Google Apps been finalized? If so, who made the final decision? Yes, the decision has been made. Office IT did the original research and made our recommendations to the CxO level. Thank you very much for the detailed reply to my questions. :-) I figured the decision had already been made, but I still thought it would be nice to discuss some aspects of it. I think some of the discussion has shed a bit of light on current practices, procedures, and principles, which is always good. MZMcBride ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Wikimedia Foundation switching to Google Apps?
On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 15:02, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemow...@gmail.comwrote: Erik Moeller, 26/10/2010 23:01: We've recommended Thunderbird in the past (with some folks sticking with GMail, yours truly included), but unfortunately it doesn't meet all our needs. Why? All things considered, I like Thunderbird, but it has two main issues for us. #1 - No integrated centralized calendar. #2 - Search. A number of people have mentioned this to me and I think it might be the biggest single issue with Thunderbird that I've seen. If you have a large number of emails, search in Thunderbird works in strange ways. It will find some emails that seem totally unrelated to your search term, and miss the most obvious ones. I consider myself fairly adept at manipulating search engines into finding what I need and even I have had serious issues finding what I want. It's gone so far that at least one staff that I know of took to sorting emails into folders by whom they were received from, then color coding each thread differently - simply so the user could find what they were looking for. -Jon ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Wikimedia Foundation switching to Google Apps?
On 10/26/10 11:01 PM, Erik Moeller wrote: I'd love to see at least a basic MediaWiki/Etherpad integration, it would give MW a huge productivity boost for real-time note-taking and collaboration. + 1 ! Anthere ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Wikimedia Foundation switching to Google Apps?
On 27.10.2010 01:15, Jon Davis wrote: On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 15:02, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemow...@gmail.comwrote: Erik Moeller, 26/10/2010 23:01: We've recommended Thunderbird in the past (with some folks sticking with GMail, yours truly included), but unfortunately it doesn't meet all our needs. Why? All things considered, I like Thunderbird, but it has two main issues for us. #1 - No integrated centralized calendar. What about the Sunbird/Lightning extension for the Thunderbird. I think that the number of manipulation to setup them will be the same with the amount of setup for Google Calendar. #2 - Search. A number of people have mentioned this to me and I think it might be the biggest single issue with Thunderbird that I've seen. If you have a large number of emails, search in Thunderbird works in strange ways. It will find some emails that seem totally unrelated to your search term, and miss the most obvious ones. I consider myself fairly adept at manipulating search engines into finding what I need and even I have had serious issues finding what I want. It's gone so far that at least one staff that I know of took to sorting emails into folders by whom they were received from, then color coding each thread differently - simply so the user could find what they were looking for. I guess indeed the search in Thunderbird may be not so accurate as in Gmail (since google started as a search engine - no comments on that) - but thunderbird has a lot of extension with whom you can do whatever you want to do with it - including the ones for searching. And as a small comment: Thunderbird is free (as in freedom) application and allows to do whatever manipulation with the code (and there are a bunch of thunderbird customization already available there) - thus if there is a need this need can solved by the community. - And Wikimedia could make a call for improvements in the code of TB, which I believe would have be taken into consideration by the developers. And more people could have used the results of that - thus generating a better and smoother application (as in the wikipedia articles). -Jon ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Wikimedia Foundation switching to Google Apps?
On 26 October 2010 23:35, Zugravu Gheorghe zugravu.gheor...@gmail.com wrote: And as a small comment: Thunderbird is free (as in freedom) application and allows to do whatever manipulation with the code (and there are a bunch of thunderbird customization already available there) - thus if there is a need this need can solved by the community. - And Wikimedia could make a call for improvements in the code of TB, which I believe would have be taken into consideration by the developers. And more people could have used the results of that - thus generating a better and smoother application (as in the wikipedia articles). It is indeed theoretically possible to make Thunderbird as good as Gmail and Google Calendar. In practice, no-one's managed to do so in six years, despite quite a lot of effort. This suggests that although possible, it may not in fact be feasible. The necessary condition for a move to Thunderbird instead would be an existence proof, i.e. a build that is as useful a tool as the Google tools. Which, note, are not even proper applications, but browser pages. - d. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Wikimedia Audited Financial Statements for 2009-10 Fiscal Year Now Available
On 26 October 2010 16:40, Veronique Kessler vkess...@wikimedia.org wrote: I am pleased to announce that the Wikimedia Foundation's audited financial statements for the years ended June 30, 2010 and 2009 are available on the Foundation wiki at: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/foundation/c/cc/FINAL_09_10From_KPMG.pdf In anticipation of any questions, we have also prepared a Question and Answer sheet also posted on the Foundation wiki at: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/2009-2010_Financial_Statements_Questions_and_Answers I am happy to answer any questions you might have. Veronique 470K on travel. Quite impressive for an web based organization. At British airways prices that's still over 500 return journeys from new york to london. Wikipedia contains more than 16 million articles contributed by a global volunteer community of more than 100,000 people. You are using some non standard definitions of community here. -- geni ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Wikimedia Audited Financial Statements for 2009-10 Fiscal Year Now Available
On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 9:40 AM, geni geni...@gmail.com wrote: .. Wikipedia contains more than 16 million articles contributed by a global volunteer community of more than 100,000 people. You are using some non standard definitions of community here. I'd like to see how that figure of 100,000 was arrived at. -- John Vandenberg ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Wikimedia Foundation switching to Google Apps?
On 27.10.2010 01:39, David Gerard wrote: On 26 October 2010 23:35, Zugravu Gheorghe zugravu.gheor...@gmail.com wrote: And as a small comment: Thunderbird is free (as in freedom) application and allows to do whatever manipulation with the code (and there are a bunch of thunderbird customization already available there) - thus if there is a need this need can solved by the community. - And Wikimedia could make a call for improvements in the code of TB, which I believe would have be taken into consideration by the developers. And more people could have used the results of that - thus generating a better and smoother application (as in the wikipedia articles). It is indeed theoretically possible to make Thunderbird as good as Gmail and Google Calendar. In practice, no-one's managed to do so in six years, despite quite a lot of effort. This suggests that although possible, it may not in fact be feasible. The necessary condition for a move to Thunderbird instead would be an existence proof, i.e. a build that is as useful a tool as the Google tools. Which, note, are not even proper applications, but browser pages. - d. I would say that Thunderbird got a lot of improvements since v1, and there is still a lot to do with the code. As an example of customization I can bring this example (http://www.synovel.com/collab/components) but I believe there are many more of such ones. Anyway since there was taken a decision, I guess that the IT people had made the best choose in order to satisfy all the folks. regards, /gheorghe ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Wikimedia Foundation switching to Google Apps?
On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 12:35 AM, Zugravu Gheorghe zugravu.gheor...@gmail.com wrote: On 27.10.2010 01:15, Jon Davis wrote: On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 15:02, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemow...@gmail.comwrote: Erik Moeller, 26/10/2010 23:01: We've recommended Thunderbird in the past (with some folks sticking with GMail, yours truly included), but unfortunately it doesn't meet all our needs. Why? All things considered, I like Thunderbird, but it has two main issues for us. #1 - No integrated centralized calendar. What about the Sunbird/Lightning extension for the Thunderbird. I think that the number of manipulation to setup them will be the same with the amount of setup for Google Calendar. It just _does not_ work. I use Gmail only for lists, Thunderbird for every other email. But calendaring in TB is just buggy as hell. And I've been trying for years, being the Mozilla fan that I am. It never really gets better :( So google calendar it is. And as a small comment: Thunderbird is free (as in freedom) application and allows to do whatever manipulation with the code (and there are a bunch of thunderbird customization already available there) - thus if there is a need this need can solved by the community. - And Wikimedia could make a call for improvements in the code of TB, which I believe would have be taken into consideration by the developers. And more people could have used the results of that - thus generating a better and smoother application (as in the wikipedia articles). +1. I really think Wikimedia should poke the Mozilla Foundation on that ;). Delphine (prêchant pour sa paroisse) -- @notafish NB. This gmail address is used for mailing lists. Personal emails will get lost. Intercultural musings: Ceci n'est pas une endive - http://blog.notanendive.org Photos with simple eyes: notaphoto - http://photo.notafish.org ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Wikimedia Foundation switching to Google Apps?
On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 7:20 AM, Jon Davis jda...@wikimedia.org wrote: Howdy, As a quick introduction, I'm Jon Davis[1], one of the Office IT guys in the SF office. Since the Google Apps migrations is one of my major projects, I'll try to answer your questions the best I can. Replies in line. ...snip... So will the CBA and other documents that come from the research into these solutions be released to the public? -Peachey ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Wikimedia Foundation switching to Google Apps?
Sorry, not this time. What I've got off hand isn't in a publicly usable format. I didn't think it would be of interest to the public. Now I know and next time I will make sure the info is public friendly, should it be desired. -Jon On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 19:17, K. Peachey p858sn...@yahoo.com.au wrote: On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 7:20 AM, Jon Davis jda...@wikimedia.org wrote: Howdy, As a quick introduction, I'm Jon Davis[1], one of the Office IT guys in the SF office. Since the Google Apps migrations is one of my major projects, I'll try to answer your questions the best I can. Replies in line. ...snip... So will the CBA and other documents that come from the research into these solutions be released to the public? -Peachey ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
