[Foundation-l] Pedophilia and the Non discrimination policy
In the wake of this RfB on the English Wikipediahttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_bureaucratship/Nihonjoe_4we really need some clarification from the foundation on this issue. It's my personal view that in general these kinds of situations fall pretty clearly under the Non discrimination policy of the Foundationhttp://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Non_discrimination_policyas it is written now. Because that policy or its interpretation isn't something subject to community consensus I feel we need to resolve this issue before soliciting community input on the wider matter. Best, --- Jake Wartenberg j...@jakewartenberg.com ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Pedophilia and the Non discrimination policy
I am not talking about pedophilia activism, but instances where the individual in question is not disruptively editing. --- Jake Wartenberg On Sat, Nov 28, 2009 at 4:10 PM, Fred Bauder fredb...@fairpoint.net wrote: Actually, I think the better argument is that pedophilia activism on Wikipedia harms the project. Fred Jake, It is not an accepted practice to ban users from editing Wikipedia unless they are actively disrupting, endangering, or otherwise harming the project. Such bannings usually require either broad community consensus, an action from the Arbitration Committee, or an action from Jimbo Wales. In addition, The Wikimedia Foundation prohibits discrimination against current or prospective users and employees on the basis of race, color, gender, religion, national origin, age, disability, sexual orientation, or any other legally protected characteristics. Pedophile activism actively disrupts the project; is the subject of an action by the Arbitration Committee; and is not a legally protected characteristic. I am not happy with Nihonjoe_4's RfB as I not sure he was given a chance to arrive at a considered resolution regarding this matter, but I certainly don't like his unbriefed arguments: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Ryan_Postlethwaite/archive22#Tyciol Fred In the wake of this RfB on the English Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_bureaucratship/Nihonjoe_4 we really need some clarification from the foundation on this issue. It's my personal view that in general these kinds of situations fall pretty clearly under the Non discrimination policy of the Foundation http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Non_discrimination_policyas it is written now. Because that policy or its interpretation isn't something subject to community consensus I feel we need to resolve this issue before soliciting community input on the wider matter. Best, --- Jake Wartenberg j...@jakewartenberg.com ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Pedophilia and the Non discrimination policy
On Sat, Nov 28, 2009 at 4:37 PM, George Herbert george.herb...@gmail.comwrote: On Sat, Nov 28, 2009 at 1:16 PM, Jake Wartenberg j...@jakewartenberg.com wrote: I am not talking about pedophilia activism, but instances where the individual in question is not disruptively editing. There are a wide variety of reasons to permanently block people who were elsewhere identified (more commonly, self-identified) as pedophiles but edit here apparently harmlessly, including bringing the project into disrepute (Jimbo's wording, I think), the latent threat to underage editors, that they'd have to be watched continuously to make sure they did not start advocating or preying on underage users. That sounds reasonable to me; but it should be made clear. We can't have a foundation policy that appears to contradict this, and if this is the standard we are going to follow it should be written down. The Foundation and en.wp community policies are generally to be excessively tolerant of personal opinion and political and religious beliefs, etc. We do not want to let one countries' social mores, political restrictions, civil rights restrictions limit who can participate and how. However, there's no country in the world where pedophilia is legal. It's poorly enforced in some, but there are laws against it even there. There is a difference between having a disorder and acting on it. The former is of course legal. What it comes down to - the very presence of an editor who is known to be a pedophile or pedophilia advocate is disruptive to the community, and quite possibly damaging to it, inherently to them being who they are and them being open about it. -- -george william herbert george.herb...@gmail.com ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Pedophilia and the Non discrimination policy
This would be a great thing for the foundation to clarify. We should probably go by the text and not by how the policy is linked to on a template. It states *This policy may **not be circumvented, eroded, or ignored on local Wikimedia projects.* On Sat, Nov 28, 2009 at 4:50 PM, Benjamin Lees emufarm...@gmail.com wrote: I don't think the non discrimination policy should be construed to apply to the communities: the policy says that it applies to the Wikimedia Foundation and makes no mention of the projects or volunteers. Note also that it is listed under Board and staff on the navigation template (the policies that apply to the projects are listed above). In any event, paraphilias are not legally protected characteristics. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Pedophilia and the Non discrimination policy
It's important to keep in mind what the enforceability (or lack thereof) of whatever determination we make will be. That is, pedophiles will always be able to edit unless we radically change the nature of the project. All we can do is prevent them from using their real identities or declaring their orientation (for lack of a better word). --- Jake Wartenberg On Sat, Nov 28, 2009 at 5:52 PM, Fred Bauder fredb...@fairpoint.net wrote: If [it] brings the project in disrepute, then so be it. André Engels, andreeng...@gmail.com It is our responsibility to avoid harm to the project. Fred ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Pedophilia and the Non discrimination policy
I wasn't saying we should. --- Jake Wartenberg On Sat, Nov 28, 2009 at 6:38 PM, Bod Notbod bodnot...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Nov 28, 2009 at 11:29 PM, Jake Wartenberg j...@jakewartenberg.com wrote: That is, pedophiles will always be able to edit unless we radically change the nature of the project. What? Radically change Wikipedia because of paedophiles? Change it how? When someone's about to make an edit we have a pop-up that says Are you a paedophile: YES/NO and they can click through? ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
