Re: Notes from the Desktop Architects Meeting
(Disclaimer: I'm certainly not a specialist about Asia) Le mercredi 17 mai 2006 à 06:35 +0200, Quim Gil a écrit : Some comments with a GUADEC perspective (I'm capable of having other perspectives but apparently these months I'm a one-topic guy) :) :-) On Tue, 2006-05-16 at 08:34 +0200, Vincent Untz wrote: - we should try to send people in asian regional events to show that we're interested in what's happening there (they don't seem to know that we're interested in that) - inviting some managers from asian projects to events such as GUADEC might be a good idea We have a Farsi team very active in GUADEC 2006, we have also a Novell team from Bagalore and Sun is sending 2 developers from Beijing. Iran, India and China have possibly just one common denominator, being Asian countries, but we could have a BOF session lead by them during the AHW to see how an Asian coordinated effort can be addressed. Apart from GUADEC there is at least a GNOME Korea local group, many translation teams and advisory board companies' offices there (you know this much better than me). The cooperation with Asia item was more related to some efforts that we don't know about. For example, there are people working on distributions in Thailand, Malaysia, China, India Korea and we nearly don't know anything about them. What do they need from us? Is there some parts of what's they're doing that we should integrate? etc. I believe the Farsi team is a good example of what we should aim to achieve for this since they're doing a lot of fantastic work with us (where us is not only GNOME, but the upstream authors). One thing that was highlighted by some of the Chinese people during the discussion about this is that there is, unfortunately, a cultural difference that makes it hard for lots of Asian people to contribute. What is clear to me is that any real move in Asia or wherever needs to be promoted mainly by the local gnomers of these countries, with assistance of the rest of the Foundation. Starting dynamics i.e. dealing directly with the board without counting with the locals or counting with them when everything is arranged and agreed is not a desirable practice. Of course. I certainly didn't want to imply we don't care about the local groups. We should definitely encourage them to continue. The solution discussed at the meeting (and proposed by one person working at the United Nations on those kinds of issues) is to create relationships between the people who manage the governmental open source efforts and the upstream projects. These would be some formal relationships, which require action from the Foundation. There are two different (although related) things here: + get feedback from and try to cooperate with the open source efforts, that are mainly governmental efforts + build an even bigger community in Asian countries than what we have right now (FWIW, I believe we should also look at Africa, but this might be even more difficult) Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Notes from the Desktop Architects Meeting
Le jeudi 18 mai 2006 à 09:06 +0200, Murray Cumming a écrit : [snip] One thing that was highlighted by some of the Chinese people during the discussion about this is that there is, unfortunately, a cultural difference that makes it hard for lots of Asian people to contribute. So we really need those people to imagine or suggest an environment where they could get more done, working with each other and us. There's a lot of motivation to give them what they need. I agree. But I should have detailed more the cultural difference: we were told that they're not used to question the authority. And upstream developers represent authority. Which is a really difficult issue. (again, I'm pretty much ignorant of the various Asian cultures, I'm just repeating stuff said by some Asian people at the meeting) Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Notes from the Desktop Architects Meeting
Hi, Vincent Untz wrote: Here's a list of concrete actions some GNOME people could do: - look that portland doesn't do anything we don't like, or go and do the GNOME part of the job - join the LSB mailing lists and be active there I think Brian Cameron is involved in that forum - or was under the impression he was, perhaps not actively. - help pushing the freedesktop.org spec out of the draft status Completely agree here. + Portland project - general feeling of nearly everyone was that it's sad that GNOME is not involved in this effort - would be nice to get someone to at least look at the project and provide feedback - Waldo and some KDE people wanted to make a joint GNOME/KDE statement about the project (we love it). Is this something we want to do? I personally have issues with it because I can't get over the fact that Portland is building on 'unstable or draft' specifications. Build the bricks, *then* build the wall. I guess others have difficulties that we're not encouraging our own toolkit APIs. + Standards - some freedesktop.org discussion. Some specs should really leave the draft status. - some KDE people thought that GNOME was not involved enough on xdg-list. I'm not sure why. Because everyone who does get involved gets worn out after a short period? And those that we would like to get involved are already spread thin as it is? + aKademy will try to have a track on standards. - it's in Dublin, at the end of September. - maybe we should send some people there? I could probably encourage some of the Sun desktop team to attend some of the tracks. Glynn ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Notes from the Desktop Architects Meeting
On 5/16/06, Glynn Foster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: + Portland project - general feeling of nearly everyone was that it's sad that GNOME is not involved in this effort - would be nice to get someone to at least look at the project and provide feedback - Waldo and some KDE people wanted to make a joint GNOME/KDE statement about the project (we love it). Is this something we want to do? I personally have issues with it because I can't get over the fact that Portland is building on 'unstable or draft' specifications. Build the bricks, *then* build the wall. I guess others have difficulties that we're not encouraging our own toolkit APIs. I have issues with the wheel reconstruction I see in Portland. I'd much rather put the effort into making one mediocre platform really good, instead of spending a lot of time and developer cycles making two mediocre platforms work more like each other and still be mediocre, but now mediocre and integrated at a shallow level.* Luis * Re: portland and also ffox/ooo, I'm disappointed that overall we're settling for shitty levels of integration when everyone keeps voting with their feet for an OS whose primary benefit is superior integration. ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Notes from the Desktop Architects Meeting
Some comments with a GUADEC perspective (I'm capable of having other perspectives but apparently these months I'm a one-topic guy) :) On Tue, 2006-05-16 at 08:34 +0200, Vincent Untz wrote: + Portland project Waldo Bastian is going to lead a session about the Portland project in the main venue of GUADEC 2006 on Thursday 29th, during the After Hours Workshops. This is a way to say that we are giving importance to this project and we want to discuss it openly. In fact we had invited Waldo to organize that Desktop Architects Meeting during the GUADEC days, but it was too late to consider any chenge in their schedule. - we should try to send people in asian regional events to show that we're interested in what's happening there (they don't seem to know that we're interested in that) - inviting some managers from asian projects to events such as GUADEC might be a good idea We have a Farsi team very active in GUADEC 2006, we have also a Novell team from Bagalore and Sun is sending 2 developers from Beijing. Iran, India and China have possibly just one common denominator, being Asian countries, but we could have a BOF session lead by them during the AHW to see how an Asian coordinated effort can be addressed. Apart from GUADEC there is at least a GNOME Korea local group, many translation teams and advisory board companies' offices there (you know this much better than me). What is clear to me is that any real move in Asia or wherever needs to be promoted mainly by the local gnomers of these countries, with assistance of the rest of the Foundation. Starting dynamics i.e. dealing directly with the board without counting with the locals or counting with them when everything is arranged and agreed is not a desirable practice. + aKademy will try to have a track on standards. - it's in Dublin, at the end of September. - maybe we should send some people there? We offered free registration to 10 KDE developers (to put a number) and the same travel and accommodation sponsorship options that we were offering to the rest of GUADEC participants. Sadly, we haven't got any affirmative response, although a couple of KDE members apologized for not being able to come. I fear the proposal of having a football match GNOME - Rest Of The World just for fun scared some of them (seriously). Maybe at the end we get at least some of the KDE developers based in Catalonia · Spain... -- Quim Gil /// http://desdeamericaconamor.org | http://guadec.org signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
