Re: [fpc-other] Interpreter speed
Am 29.04.2023 um 19:48 schrieb geneb via fpc-other: On Sat, 29 Apr 2023, Bernd Oppolzer via fpc-other wrote: This may be slightly off-topic, but I can tell you some facts about my Stanford Pascal compiler, which runs - native on z Mainframe machines (which may count as a RISC machine, given the instruction set used) - emulated by Hercules, which is a emulator of z Mainframes - by emulating P-Code, which is a (sort of) byte code for Pascal ... the P-Code (which is pure text, portable) is translated to a byte code representation before execution; static linking is also done in this stage Bernd, is the dialect used by that compiler "standard" Pascal, UCSD Pascal, Turbo-compatible, or? tnx. g. The dialect implemented by the New Stanford Pascal compiler is "standard" Pascal with some extensions, for example - extended const syntax (for structures and arrays etc.) - support for external procedures (contained in "modules") - CHAR(n) data type - string data type - static definitions - initializations of variables and statics - OTHERWISE on CASE - BREAK, CONTINUE, RETURN - direct read and write of scalar types (enums) - with clause on record types - pointers on variables which are not on the heap - pointer arithmetic - many new builtin procedures and functions A short "language reference" (23 pages), which covers the differences to "standard" Pascal, is available from this website: http://bernd-oppolzer.de/job9.htm see the link on top of the page, just below the picture. Kind regards Bernd ___ fpc-other maillist - fpc-other@lists.freepascal.org https://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-other
Re: [fpc-other] Interpreter speed
On Sat, 29 Apr 2023, Bernd Oppolzer via fpc-other wrote: This may be slightly off-topic, but I can tell you some facts about my Stanford Pascal compiler, which runs - native on z Mainframe machines (which may count as a RISC machine, given the instruction set used) - emulated by Hercules, which is a emulator of z Mainframes - by emulating P-Code, which is a (sort of) byte code for Pascal ... the P-Code (which is pure text, portable) is translated to a byte code representation before execution; static linking is also done in this stage Bernd, is the dialect used by that compiler "standard" Pascal, UCSD Pascal, Turbo-compatible, or? tnx. g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_! ___ fpc-other maillist - fpc-other@lists.freepascal.org https://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-other
Re: [fpc-other] Interpreter speed
On the same machine: PASCAL1 compiled with Stanford Pascal, running on the Hercules emulator: pp pascal1 EXEC PASCAL PASCAL1 STATE PASCAL1 PASCAL A EXEC PASCOMP PASCAL1 STANFORD PASCAL COMPILER, OPPOLZER VERSION OF 2023.03 Compiler Summary No Errors, no Warnings. 26042 LINE(S) READ, 243 PROCEDURE(S) COMPILED, 75126 P_INSTRUCTIONS GENERATED, 9.40 SECONDS IN COMPILATION. EXEC PASC370 PASCAL1 STANFORD PASCAL POST-PROCESSOR, OPPOLZER VERSION OF 2023.03 NO ASSEMBLY ERROR(S) DETECTED. 265999 BYTES OF CODE GENERATED, 8.24 SECONDS IN POST_PROCESSING. EXEC PASLINK PASCAL1 Ready; T=17.71/27.02 18:17:06 Kind regards Bernd Am 29.04.2023 um 18:15 schrieb Bernd Oppolzer: This may be slightly off-topic, but I can tell you some facts about my Stanford Pascal compiler, which runs - native on z Mainframe machines (which may count as a RISC machine, given the instruction set used) - emulated by Hercules, which is a emulator of z Mainframes - by emulating P-Code, which is a (sort of) byte code for Pascal ... the P-Code (which is pure text, portable) is translated to a byte code representation before execution; static linking is also done in this stage The times for compiling the compiler (first pass, 26.000 lines) are as follows: - native on z machine: 0.1 seconds - emulating z by Hercules using a very old z operating system: 10 to 12 seconds - similar (10 to 15 seconds), when running on Windows and emulating the P-Code; this includes the time to translate the P-Code char representation ... depending on the power of the used laptop etc., of course. This makes a factor of 100 for the two emulation strategies, compared to the native execution. The times are CPU times as reported by the builtin function CLOCK. Windows example: c:\work\pascal\work\src>pp pascal1 PCINT (Build 1.0 Jun 15 2022 08:21:21) STANFORD PASCAL COMPILER, OPPOLZER VERSION OF 2023.03 Compiler Summary No Errors, no Warnings. 26058 LINE(S) READ, 243 PROCEDURE(S) COMPILED, 75130 P_INSTRUCTIONS GENERATED, 13.55 SECONDS IN COMPILATION. *** EXIT Aufruf mit Parameter = 0 *** HTH, kind regards Bernd http://bernd-oppolzer.de/job9.htm Am 28.04.2023 um 09:20 schrieb Adriaan van Os via fpc-other: Out of curiosity — has anybody compared the speed of 1. interpreting a parsed syntax tree, versus 2. interpreting byte code, versus 3. interpreting a RISC CPU ? Regards, Adriaan van Os ___ fpc-other maillist - fpc-other@lists.freepascal.org https://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-other ___ fpc-other maillist - fpc-other@lists.freepascal.org https://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-other
Re: [fpc-other] Interpreter speed
This may be slightly off-topic, but I can tell you some facts about my Stanford Pascal compiler, which runs - native on z Mainframe machines (which may count as a RISC machine, given the instruction set used) - emulated by Hercules, which is a emulator of z Mainframes - by emulating P-Code, which is a (sort of) byte code for Pascal ... the P-Code (which is pure text, portable) is translated to a byte code representation before execution; static linking is also done in this stage The times for compiling the compiler (first pass, 26.000 lines) are as follows: - native on z machine: 0.1 seconds - emulating z by Hercules using a very old z operating system: 10 to 12 seconds - similar (10 to 15 seconds), when running on Windows and emulating the P-Code; this includes the time to translate the P-Code char representation ... depending on the power of the used laptop etc., of course. This makes a factor of 100 for the two emulation strategies, compared to the native execution. The times are CPU times as reported by the builtin function CLOCK. Windows example: c:\work\pascal\work\src>pp pascal1 PCINT (Build 1.0 Jun 15 2022 08:21:21) STANFORD PASCAL COMPILER, OPPOLZER VERSION OF 2023.03 Compiler Summary No Errors, no Warnings. 26058 LINE(S) READ, 243 PROCEDURE(S) COMPILED, 75130 P_INSTRUCTIONS GENERATED, 13.55 SECONDS IN COMPILATION. *** EXIT Aufruf mit Parameter = 0 *** HTH, kind regards Bernd http://bernd-oppolzer.de/job9.htm Am 28.04.2023 um 09:20 schrieb Adriaan van Os via fpc-other: Out of curiosity — has anybody compared the speed of 1. interpreting a parsed syntax tree, versus 2. interpreting byte code, versus 3. interpreting a RISC CPU ? Regards, Adriaan van Os ___ fpc-other maillist - fpc-other@lists.freepascal.org https://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-other ___ fpc-other maillist - fpc-other@lists.freepascal.org https://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-other
Re: [fpc-other] I thought it was going to get better, but no
Hello everybody, Please, note that this thread (already very long) will become moderated now and no further posts will be let through unless I or some other list moderator believe that there"s a very good reason for it. Thanks for your understanding Tomas (one of FPC mailing list moderators) ___ fpc-other maillist - fpc-other@lists.freepascal.org https://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-other
Re: [fpc-other] I thought it was going to get better, but no
On 29/04/2023 12:24, Jacob Kroon via fpc-other wrote: I find it very odd the way you write above, and that you insist on defending Nikolay/Joanna. Nikolay is a member of the FPC core team. As a result, we know him fairly well. He really is not Joanna. Jonas ___ fpc-other maillist - fpc-other@lists.freepascal.org https://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-other
Re: [fpc-other] I thought it was going to get better, but no
Hi Tomas, On 4/29/23 08:33, Tomas Hajny wrote: On 29 April 2023 0:05:53 +0200, Jacob Kroon wrote: On 4/28/23 23:49, Tomas Hajny via fpc-other wrote: Hi Jacob, responding just privately this time... ^^^ I think that is an odd decision; for transparency I think its better to have the conversation on the mailing list. Please, stop this witch hunting game. No, Nikolay isn"t Joanna. I thought that there was only one person throwing accusations without any evidence in this whole discussion, but it seems that I was wrong. :-( Please, be better at least by being able to admit your mistake. Asking Nikolay for an excusing you would be the right thing to do if you want to know my opinion No, I object to "without any evidence": I posted the evidence is here: https://justpaste.it/cfh0e If you take the time to read the logs, I *think* you will see that I was not being confrontational at all. If you think I am wrong, please explain where and why, I meant your statement that Nikolay = Joanna. Remember that it was one of Joanna's claims that people try to use different nicks to fool her and one of stated reasons for interviewing newcomers, etc. You didn't provide any evidence for that statement. It couldn't be derived reasonable from the mail nor from the IRC logs (and it's pure nonsense). On top of that, Nikolay's e-mail was very objective from my point of view. I understand that you may be upset by the situation, but I suggest that you read it again without prejudice and without making any assumptions. I find it very odd the way you write above, and that you insist on defending Nikolay/Joanna. Jacob ___ fpc-other maillist - fpc-other@lists.freepascal.org https://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-other
Re: [fpc-other] I thought it was going to get better, but no
Nikolay Nikolov via fpc-other said on Sat, 29 Apr 2023 09:40:03 +0300 >On 4/29/23 09:02, Steve Litt via fpc-other wrote: >1.5) In 2020, Freenode's #fpc channel was being ruined by a troll, who >was flooding the channel with crap, offtopic links and misinformation >about Pascal and would hijack and steer every real Pascal discussion >to absurd topics, like, for example, whether the moon landings were >faked. It's not like offtopic discussion was banned, but he was >disrupting any regular and meaningful talk. It was horrible, I have >described it several times as a burning trash can. The FPC moderators >at the time didn't do anything, even though Joanna complained on the >forums: It's true. There are people who deliberately sow discord. They ruin formerly good communication venues, and they should be immediately kicked out of the venue. I once saw a flame war tear apart a wonderful Linux group: It was horrible. You have my word that on #fpc-alt and ##fpc-alt, I'll remove anyone who is just trying to start trouble for trouble's sake. I didn't put that in the topic yet, but when it becomes necessary, I will, and I'll also give the troublemaker a warning before banning him or her if the deliberate troublemaking continues. I've done this before, on a mailing list I controlled. It's amazing how few people you have to ban to have a civilized and productive venue. I banned three people, two of whom never knew they were banned. In the 19 year history of the GoLUG (Greater Orlando Linux User Group) I probably had to issue about 10 warnings, and once I put every single person under moderation to stop a rapidly developing flame war. It never happened again. Thanks, SteveT Steve Litt Autumn 2022 featured book: Thriving in Tough Times http://www.troubleshooters.com/bookstore/thrive.htm ___ fpc-other maillist - fpc-other@lists.freepascal.org https://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-other
Re: [fpc-other] I thought it was going to get better, but no
On Fri, Apr 28, 2023 at 10:49:06PM +, HSN via fpc-other wrote: > [...] > Now that they have for the time being given up on the goal of hijacking > #fpc, it seems to be just the colo account in there saying things to make > Lazarus ide look like it has problems. > [...] I would appreciate you not putting words in my mouth. Thank you very much in advance. As a reminder, already in October 2022, two of the IRC network operators of the libera IRC network you registered the fpc-related channels on judged your moderation actions after having observed them for a while as (I quote) the following: [16:26:37] colo: Vote with your feet. This channel is, unfortunately, quite toxic and there looks to be no one that cares enough to address it. [16:27:10] This is now the third user that this particular op has forced out of the channel in the few days I've been present. [16:27:53] I completely agree. Nobody should stay in a channel where they are unhappy. [16:28:17] You are, as always, missing the very obvious point. [16:28:28] What is that? [16:28:39] that you're running the channel quite toxicly [16:28:41] _YOU_ are the common denominator in this. [16:29:42] there's nothing staff can or should do about that, channels are free to run themselves how they want, but my opinion is you're running this channel with unnecessary and arbitrary use of power [16:38:45] colo: This channel is inarguably in the wrong namespace. We don't enforce the rule but it does exist. You are free to create ##fpc if you'd like and perhaps others will feel as you do that this channel is toxic and move elsewhere if they had a suitable place to go. [16:40:00] Boohumbug I agree [16:40:16] I'm not looking for your agreement. [16:40:19] Boohumbug, I do understand that option, but I have no standing whatsoever in the free pascal community (only started engaging with it a few weeks ago), and I don't feel like I could be an appropriate steward of that community (or channel) as a result [16:40:50] ## channels are first-come first-serve. They don't need to represent a project, they just need someone to watch over them. [16:41:32] But the suggestion stands. As jess pointed out there is nothing we can do to try to address this issue here; the powers that be have made their stance known and nothing is going to change. (More context, for anyone who cares: https://paste.debian.net/plain/1273023) -- with best regards: - Johannes Truschnigg ( johan...@truschnigg.info ) signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ fpc-other maillist - fpc-other@lists.freepascal.org https://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-other
Re: [fpc-other] I thought it was going to get better, but no
On 4/29/23 09:02, Steve Litt via fpc-other wrote: Nikolay Nikolov via fpc-other said on Fri, 28 Apr 2023 21:39:04 +0300 Maybe #fpc-alt will become a better unofficial IRC channel? So far, I've joined the #fpc-alt channel (without leaving #fpc), to support an alternative channel as well, but I'm not very impressed, not only due to the lack of people (only 3 people, including me), but also due to the fact that there's not even a topic. Today at about 7PM New York time, prompted by a suggestion on ##fpc-alt, I added the following /topic to #fpc-alt: === Topic for #fpc-alt is: Ontopic list for Free Pascal. Offtopic channel is ##fpc-alt. Rules: Treat your fellow channel inhabitants like you'd like to be treated. === I also created a similar /topic for ##fpc-alt , which is the offtopic FPC channel. I know growing a channel takes time, Yes. Also, these are the first two IRC channels I've ever managed. I've managed mailing lists, but never IRC channels. So I have a lot to learn. My first choice would be for somebody like you or Tomas to be in charge of #fpc. My second choice would be for somebody like you or Tomas to take over #fpc-alt. The only reason I registered and run #fpc-alt is because people who are genuinely using or thinking about using FreePascal need a place they can listen, ask or help without fear of banning. I have lots of ambitions, but believe me, being king of an IRC channel isn't one of them. :-) [snip] maybe #fpc-alt will grow a large community as well, and will allow a more free and welcoming to newcomers environment. I hope so, and I hope that later somebody more invested in FreePascal will take over #fpc-alt. And of course, there's also #lazarus, where moderation was taken up by giantm (a Lazarus developer). Even though #lazarus has only about 20 people, they managed to give me some help on sound issues. There's also a lot of documentation on the Libera Chat website: https://libera.chat/guides/#running-a-channel So, plenty of alternative places to talk, if you're not happy about #fpc. I wouldn't call it "plenty", because there are a few hundred on #fpc, and it's my opinion that a lot of them would be more forthcoming with help if they weren't worried about the possibility of being censured for giving the help using the wrong phrases. [snip] Technically speaking, she didn't "hijack" the channel. She is the channel owner, by virtue of being the first person to register it on this IRC network. Speaking *only* of #fpc and not #pascal, my understanding of the events is: 1) Freenode's #fpc was an official FreePascal venue. Yes, and: 1.5) In 2020, Freenode's #fpc channel was being ruined by a troll, who was flooding the channel with crap, offtopic links and misinformation about Pascal and would hijack and steer every real Pascal discussion to absurd topics, like, for example, whether the moon landings were faked. It's not like offtopic discussion was banned, but he was disrupting any regular and meaningful talk. It was horrible, I have described it several times as a burning trash can. The FPC moderators at the time didn't do anything, even though Joanna complained on the forums: https://forum.lazarus.freepascal.org/index.php?topic=51491.0 As a result, I was given access to the #fpc channel. Joanna was not given access, but I banned the troll, and things went better. However, Joanna would often advise me when she thinks someone is a troll and ask me to ban him/her. She was always suspicious of newcomers. She didn't like it, when a new users comes and starts lurking, etc. However, I would exercise my own judgement. I'll admit that, there were several occasions, where it looked like an overreaction, but it turned out that her intuition was right. Eventually, due to real life issues, I started having less and less time to spend on IRC, so Joanna would contact me on the forums, if she thinks someone needs to be banned. I would then look at the channel logs and exercise my own judgement. 2) Freenode went bad. Yes. 3) Joanna registered #fpc on before anyone else. Yes. At the time, none of the FPC developers had any time to spend on IRC moderation. I asked Joanna for access to the channel, and then I gave access to Karoly Balogh, who was also on IRC, so that we have some official FPC people as moderator. However, in practice, none of us had any time to watch the channel. 4) Joanna banned 42 people and, in my informed opinion, made the rules all about her personal preferences. Apparently, yes. Although I suspect some of them are legit users, who got banned, but there were also genuine trolls, who often use sock puppet accounts. So, some of these 42 accounts are actually fewer people. However, who is a troll and who isn't - I don't know. At this point, I wasn't really moderating the channel anymore. I suspect it's maybe 2 or 3 trolls using
Re: [fpc-other] I thought it was going to get better, but no
Jacob, First let me say that I am someone who has been in your position, I have some applications that I wrote in Turbo Pascal for DOS that I wanted to get working on a modern PC, and I came across FreePascal. Many times things just don't work the way they used to and I needed quite a bit of help, and I can say I am extremely impressed and thankful for the help I have received from the FPC mailing list. Nikolay has helped me tremendously and has even modified PTCPAS to work with my application, something which I am also very grateful for. My current version of my old Turbo Pascal program now does amazing things that I would have never even dreamed of back in the day. Also I do not use IRC at all, not just #FPC, I do not use IRC. So I do not know Joanna. You asked for an opinion on your trasnscript so I read it and I am offering you an impartial third party opinion. I see your point and it's frustrating when you can't make something work that used to work on another system, but the people who have helped me have taken the time to explain ways to work around whatever the issues are.. yes I did need to re-write some of my code to make it work, but that was time well spend. It's not always easy to just change a system as complicated as FreePascal... but in any case, the IRC is not the place to discuss such things, and the ban message you received was to go get help in the forums. The forums make much more sense to have a discussion of this nature because you can't expect the development team to be on your schedule to chat with you live about it on IRC.. IRC is a TERRIBLE place to discuss complicated issues like getting your code to compile on FPC, it assumes that the people who could help you have nothing better to do than to sit there waiting to help you. I read the 'Evidence' and in that format it is very hard to follow, but it seems to me that Joanna was genuinely trying to help, and just wanted to see an example of the code. I think it is COMPLETELY unreasonable for you not to send some kind of example code that illustrates what you are trying to compile. If you are asking for someone to help you and they want information that will help them see what you are trying to do, then YOU comply and send them what they ask for, to not send some sample code is very rude. I do technical support and if one of my PAYING customers asked me to help with, something but refused to send me an example of the problem, then I would just tell them, sorry I can't help you if I don't have an example of this. You didn't need to send the whole application, that is no help at all, just a simple snippet that illustrates what you are trying to get working. Who knows maybe someone could help you with some workaround to make it work.. but without seeing the code you are making it difficult for people to help you. Also it seemed to me that when Joanna asked you who you were on the forums, it was so you could get help there, perhaps it was so she could continue the discussion with you there, I don't see any reason why you should take offense to her asking you for your user ID on the forums. The Ban message was: You have been kicked from #fpc by Joanna (please go get help in forums) I don't see that as being offensive... it's simply saying 'this is not the place for this, please pose your question on the forums' She obviously banned you so you would be forced to use the forum, which is the correct place to discuss such things, if she did not ban you, I guarantee you would have just logged right back in. So instead of coming to the forums and posting your questions, you went on this rampage about being banned. You were the one overreacting. In my opinion. IRC is completely the wrong place to discuss such things, as Nikolay mentioned, the FPC developers have other things to do that sit and chat on IRC, posting questions on the forums gives the people who could help you a chance to get to it on a schedule that works for them, it is unreasonable for you to expect them to be available to chat with you live to help you with your issues. If you want help getting something to work, you really need to provide some sample code. I can't understand why you would refuse to send some code.. just type out a few lines to illustrate what you are trying to compile and explain how it used to work on this other system. When people keep asking for information and you refuse to provide it, you can't expect them not to get frustrated with you. They don't owe you a thing, if you want their help, you should comply with their requests. I found it EXTREMELY rude of you not to provide some kind of sample code. I would NEVER post a request for help and then refuse to comply with such a simple request. And I must point out that requesting code to me seemed a genuine attempt to help you with your issue. Apr 11 11:15:25 Kroon can we see your code ? Apr 11 11:16:24 Joanna, no I find this alone a
[fpc-other] Interpreter speed
Out of curiosity — has anybody compared the speed of 1. interpreting a parsed syntax tree, versus 2. interpreting byte code, versus 3. interpreting a RISC CPU ? Regards, Adriaan van Os ___ fpc-other maillist - fpc-other@lists.freepascal.org https://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-other
Re: [fpc-other] I thought it was going to get better, but no
Jacob Kroon via fpc-other said on Fri, 28 Apr 2023 23:31:02 +0200 >No, this is what it looks like to me, you are "Joanna". > >But I encourage everyone else to make their own conclusion given the >information provided. > >Jacob Come join us on #fpc-alt and ##fpc-alt. You'll be striking a blow for a helpful FreePascal environment. SteveT Steve Litt Autumn 2022 featured book: Thriving in Tough Times http://www.troubleshooters.com/bookstore/thrive.htm ___ fpc-other maillist - fpc-other@lists.freepascal.org https://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-other
Re: [fpc-other] I thought it was going to get better, but no
Nikolay Nikolov via fpc-other said on Fri, 28 Apr 2023 21:39:04 +0300 >Maybe #fpc-alt will become a better unofficial IRC channel? So far, >I've joined the #fpc-alt channel (without leaving #fpc), to support an >alternative channel as well, but I'm not very impressed, not only due >to the lack of people (only 3 people, including me), but also due to >the fact that there's not even a topic. Today at about 7PM New York time, prompted by a suggestion on ##fpc-alt, I added the following /topic to #fpc-alt: === Topic for #fpc-alt is: Ontopic list for Free Pascal. Offtopic channel is ##fpc-alt. Rules: Treat your fellow channel inhabitants like you'd like to be treated. === I also created a similar /topic for ##fpc-alt , which is the offtopic FPC channel. >I know growing a channel takes >time, Yes. Also, these are the first two IRC channels I've ever managed. I've managed mailing lists, but never IRC channels. So I have a lot to learn. My first choice would be for somebody like you or Tomas to be in charge of #fpc. My second choice would be for somebody like you or Tomas to take over #fpc-alt. The only reason I registered and run #fpc-alt is because people who are genuinely using or thinking about using FreePascal need a place they can listen, ask or help without fear of banning. I have lots of ambitions, but believe me, being king of an IRC channel isn't one of them. :-) [snip] > maybe #fpc-alt will grow a large >community as well, and will allow a more free and welcoming to >newcomers environment. I hope so, and I hope that later somebody more invested in FreePascal will take over #fpc-alt. > >And of course, there's also #lazarus, where moderation was taken up by >giantm (a Lazarus developer). Even though #lazarus has only about 20 people, they managed to give me some help on sound issues. > >So, plenty of alternative places to talk, if you're not happy about >#fpc. I wouldn't call it "plenty", because there are a few hundred on #fpc, and it's my opinion that a lot of them would be more forthcoming with help if they weren't worried about the possibility of being censured for giving the help using the wrong phrases. [snip] >Technically speaking, she didn't "hijack" the channel. She is the >channel owner, by virtue of being the first person to register it on >this IRC network. Speaking *only* of #fpc and not #pascal, my understanding of the events is: 1) Freenode's #fpc was an official FreePascal venue. 2) Freenode went bad. 3) Joanna registered #fpc on before anyone else. 4) Joanna banned 42 people and, in my informed opinion, made the rules all about her personal preferences. Smarter people than I could argue whether this constitutes "hijacking", but her taking channel name #fpc, a channel that used to be an official project channel, has caused, is continuing to cause, and will continue to cause in the future serious confusion. So I say to everyone, whether you're banned on #fpc or not, join us on #fpc-alt, and if you want, the offtopic ##fpc-alt. I'm not asking you to stop using #fpc, I'm just saying get on both and see which you like better. May the better channel win. SteveT Steve Litt Autumn 2022 featured book: Thriving in Tough Times http://www.troubleshooters.com/bookstore/thrive.htm ___ fpc-other maillist - fpc-other@lists.freepascal.org https://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-other
