Re: [fpc-pascal] Smart link in FreeBSD multi-arch ?

2016-10-19 Thread fredvs 
Hello Marco.

> Do you see differences between ppas.sh and link.res with and without
> smartlinking ohter than --gc-sections? 

For link.res => no differences.
For ppas.sh => only "--gc-section" was added.

> If you compile without smartlinking but with -s and add --gc-sections
> to the ppas.sh file yourself, what happens then?

1) Compiling => ok, objects created.
2) Linking: after adding--gc-sections to the ppas.sh, I did:

# cd /usr/test
# sh ppas.sh

=> "Linking ./test

# ./test

=> "ELF interpreter /usr/libexec/ld-elf.so.1 not found, error 8

> Does it matter if you import unit "cmem" into your test program? 

uses
cmem, cthreads, classes;

Compiling and linking with --gc-sections: ok.

# ./test

=> "ELF interpreter /usr/libexec/ld-elf.so.1 not found, error 8

-

Checkmate ;-) 

Fre;D














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Re: [fpc-pascal] Smart link in FreeBSD multi-arch ?

2016-10-19 Thread Graeme Geldenhuys 
On 2016-10-19 13:25, fredvs wrote:
> Huh, I decided to forget FreeBSD...

NNOooo!;-)

Regards,
  Graeme

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Re: [fpc-pascal] Smart link in FreeBSD multi-arch ?

2016-10-19 Thread fredvs 
Hello Marco.

Huh, I decided to forget FreeBSD but ok I will re-install it and test your
propositions.

Write you later.

Fre;D



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Re: [fpc-pascal] Smart link in FreeBSD multi-arch ?

2016-10-19 Thread Marco van de Voort 
In our previous episode, fredvs said:
> > Just curious. If you don't compile with Smart-Linking enabled, does your
> binary then run fine?
> 
> Yes, without Smart-linking, a 32 bit fpc application runs fine in a
> multi-arch 64 bit system.

> With Smart-linking a 32 bit application runs fine only in a mono-arch 32
> bit.

Do you see differences between ppas.sh and link.res with and without
smartlinking ohter than --gc-sections?

If you compile without smartlinking but with -s and add --gc-sections to the
ppas.sh file yourself, what happens then?

(rationale: maybe smartlinking taking a different path in t_bsd, finding a
different ELF interpreter, linking C etc?)

Does it matter if you import unit "cmem" into your test program?
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Re: [fpc-pascal] Smart link in FreeBSD multi-arch ?

2016-10-18 Thread Graeme Geldenhuys 
On 2016-10-18 14:30, fredvs wrote:
> Many  thanks Graeme for your opened mind and your impressing clarity.


Tell that to my wife she would disagree! ;-)


Regards,
  Graeme

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Re: [fpc-pascal] Smart link in FreeBSD multi-arch ?

2016-10-18 Thread fredvs 
> Maybe if you supply two small binaries

Maybe or, better, supply two clean new glasses to those two "developers".

Sorry Graeme but I am tired to fight.

The honor of fpc is saved, the problem is or *ld* or FreeBSD multi-arch
design.

Many  thanks Graeme for your opened mind and your impressing clarity.

Fre;D





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Re: [fpc-pascal] Smart link in FreeBSD multi-arch ?

2016-10-18 Thread Graeme Geldenhuys 
On 2016-10-18 03:24, fredvs wrote:
> Yes, without Smart-linking, a 32 bit fpc application runs fine in a
> multi-arch 64 bit system.
> 
> With Smart-linking a 32 bit application runs fine only in a mono-arch 32
> bit.


Umm, that is very weird.

Maybe if you supply two small binaries, each with their ppas.sh script
and accompanied *.o and *.a files, then maybe the clever developers of
FreeBSD's ld linker can figure out what is the difference (causing the
issue)?

Regards,
  Graeme

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Re: [fpc-pascal] Smart link in FreeBSD multi-arch ?

2016-10-17 Thread Ralf Quint 

On 10/17/2016 7:47 PM, fredvs wrote:


@fpc-team: Why not register the concept of "smart-linking", nobody knows
that word in other language.
IMO, it would be good to add in wikipedia a article about "smartlink" and
not forget to say that the concept of "smart-linking" comes from fpc.
Well, it does not come from FPC, in fact the Borland compiler back to at 
least Turbo/Borland Pascal 7.0 supported that feature. (Don't know if 
Turbo Pascal 6.0 might have already supported it because I skipped it 
"back then" and went from 5.5 straight to 7.0...


Ralf

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Re: [fpc-pascal] Smart link in FreeBSD multi-arch ?

2016-10-17 Thread wkitty42 

On 10/17/2016 10:47 PM, fredvs wrote:

@fpc-team: Why not register the concept of "smart-linking", nobody knows
that word in other language.
IMO, it would be good to add in wikipedia a article about "smartlink" and
not forget to say that the concept of "smart-linking" comes from fpc.


it does not... smart linking originated with the TopSpeed team which Borland 
picked up many years back... sadly, they later let the TopSpeed team go but 
smartlinking originated way back long ago...


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Re: [fpc-pascal] Smart link in FreeBSD multi-arch ?

2016-10-17 Thread fredvs 
Oops, I did not see this...

> Is only Smart-Linking causing the problem?

Yes I agree it is only a detail, all the rest is working perfectly.

And I will survive, even with smart-link 32 bit not working in one of my
system. ;-)

Thanks a lot for helping.

@fpc-team: Why not register the concept of "smart-linking", nobody knows
that word in other language.
IMO, it would be good to add in wikipedia a article about "smartlink" and
not forget to say that the concept of "smart-linking" comes from fpc.

Fre;D









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Re: [fpc-pascal] Smart link in FreeBSD multi-arch ?

2016-10-17 Thread fredvs 
> Just curious. If you don't compile with Smart-Linking enabled, does your
binary then run fine?

Yes, without Smart-linking, a 32 bit fpc application runs fine in a
multi-arch 64 bit system.

With Smart-linking a 32 bit application runs fine only in a mono-arch 32
bit.

Fred.




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Re: [fpc-pascal] Smart link in FreeBSD multi-arch ?

2016-10-17 Thread Sven Barth 
Am 17.10.2016 17:11 schrieb "Martin Schreiber" :
>
> On Monday 17 October 2016 15:30:36 Graeme Geldenhuys wrote:
> > On 2016-10-17 13:55, fredvs wrote:
> > > So it seems that garbage collection must be enabled to do a smartlink.
> >
> > I'm not sure I follow you. From what I understand from the FPC
> > documentation, is that FPC (when smartlinking is enabled) generates
> > multiple object files per unit, trying to make a object file per
procedure.
> >
> Doesn't it use function-sections nowadays?

It depends on the target. Most targets indeed used section based
smartlinking while AFAIK targets like go32v2 use the file based approach.

Regards,
Sven
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Re: [fpc-pascal] Smart link in FreeBSD multi-arch ?

2016-10-17 Thread Martin Schreiber 
On Monday 17 October 2016 15:30:36 Graeme Geldenhuys wrote:
> On 2016-10-17 13:55, fredvs wrote:
> > So it seems that garbage collection must be enabled to do a smartlink.
>
> I'm not sure I follow you. From what I understand from the FPC
> documentation, is that FPC (when smartlinking is enabled) generates
> multiple object files per unit, trying to make a object file per procedure.
>
Doesn't it use function-sections nowadays?

Martin
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Re: [fpc-pascal] Smart link in FreeBSD multi-arch ?

2016-10-17 Thread Graeme Geldenhuys 
On 2016-09-21 18:07, fredvs wrote:
> In a multi-arch system (64 bit system that can run 32 bit apps too) FreeBSD
> 64, there is problem if a fpc 32 bit application was compiled with smart
> link (-XX).

Just curious. If you don't compile with Smart-Linking enabled, does your
binary then run fine?

Is only Smart-Linking causing the problem?


Regards,
  Graeme

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Re: [fpc-pascal] Smart link in FreeBSD multi-arch ?

2016-10-17 Thread fredvs 
Yeh, the cavalry finally arrives, I am saved. ;-)

> it is then the linkers job to link only the object files that are needed
> (and really used in the application) to make the executable. 

Yes, yes, yes and re-yes.

> I guess showing them the content of the ppas.sh file is all that they
> should need as proof.

Huh, it is already one week (7 days) that I repeat it on each answer.

> Some developers are harder to convince about potential problems or bugs. 

Yes but here it is different. Did you see that they do not want that I
answer any more?

Sincerely, if it was for one of my project, I never will fight and accept to
be insulted in each of their answer, this more than a week.

But here it is about the honor of fpc who was accused to produce bad code.

> The alternative (if you know exactly what the problem is), is to modify
> the ld linker yourself and see if it then works on your system.

Yep or prove that a gcc or clang or llvm compiler that use ld +
--gc-sections produce binary not usable in multi-arch.

==> https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/58060/

Thanks Graeme, I was beginning to think that I was in a nightmare without
end.

 
Fre;D





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Re: [fpc-pascal] Smart link in FreeBSD multi-arch ?

2016-10-17 Thread Graeme Geldenhuys 
On 2016-10-17 13:55, fredvs wrote:
> So it seems that garbage collection must be enabled to do a smartlink.

I'm not sure I follow you. From what I understand from the FPC
documentation, is that FPC (when smartlinking is enabled) generates
multiple object files per unit, trying to make a object file per procedure.

It is then the linkers job to link only the object files that are needed
(and really used in the application) to make the executable. How the
linker does that is beyond my knowledge.


> There in FreeBSD forum, they cannot admit that fpc uses  *--gc-sections*
> option in ld when fpc -XX is used.

I guess showing them the content of the ppas.sh file is all that they
should need as proof. The alternative (if you know exactly what the
problem is), is to modify the ld linker yourself and see if it then
works on your system. If so, send them a patch.

Some developers are harder to convince about potential problems or bugs.
The FreeBSD developers are definitely not the only ones.


Regards,
  Graeme

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Re: [fpc-pascal] Smart link in FreeBSD multi-arch ?

2016-10-17 Thread fredvs 
Thanks Michael.

> No, simply probably no-one knows the answer or the few knowledgable people
> didn't see your message. 

OK I agree the problem is complicated it is the reason why I ask this to fpc
+ freebsd forum.

But here I ask something simple : What option is added to linker when -XX
parameter is used?

If you do:

fpc -s -XX test.pas, in the ppas.sh produced, *--gc-sections* option is
added to ld option.

So it seems that garbage collection must be enabled to do a smartlink.

And if this is right, using  garbage collection in FreeBSD 32 bit produce
code not usable in Multi-arch.

There in FreeBSD forum, they cannot admit that fpc uses  *--gc-sections*
option in ld when fpc -XX is used.

Fre;D
  





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Re: [fpc-pascal] Smart link in FreeBSD multi-arch ?

2016-10-16 Thread Michael Van Canneyt 



On Sun, 16 Oct 2016, fredvs wrote:


I feel so lonely.


I'm told this can help: http://www.tinder.com



Nobody in the world to confirm (or not) that *--gc-sections* option is added
to ld when -XX is used ?

Did I do something wrong against fpc community ?


No, simply probably no-one knows the answer or the few knowledgable people
didn't see your message.

Michael.
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Re: [fpc-pascal] Smart link in FreeBSD multi-arch ?

2016-10-16 Thread fredvs 
I feel so lonely.

Nobody in the world to confirm (or not) that *--gc-sections* option is added
to ld when -XX is used ?

Did I do something wrong against fpc community ?

If yes I apologize a lot and a lot and a lot.

Fre;D





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Re: [fpc-pascal] Smart link in FreeBSD multi-arch ?

2016-10-13 Thread fredvs 
Thanks Graeme.

To know what is sent to the linker, there is the -s parameter.

# fpc -XX -s test.pas

This will compile the object and create a script file for the linker.
Here the script with -XX parameter:

/usr/bin/ld -b elf32-i386-freebsd -m elf_i386_fbsd *--gc-sections* -s -L. -0
./test ./link.res


If seems to me then that *--gc-sections* has to do with smart-link too.

>From site https://sourceware.org/binutils/docs/ld/Options.html:

--gc-sections
--no-gc-sections
Enable garbage collection of unused input sections. It is ignored on targets
that do not support this option. The default behaviour (of not performing
this garbage collection) can be restored by specifying `--no-gc-sections' on
the command line. Note that garbage collection for COFF and PE format
targets is supported, but the implementation is currently considered to be
experimental.
`--gc-sections' decides which input sections are used by examining symbols
and relocations. The section containing the entry symbol and all sections
containing symbols undefined on the command-line will be kept, as will
sections containing symbols referenced by dynamic objects. Note that when
building shared libraries, the linker must assume that any visible symbol is
referenced. Once this initial set of sections has been determined, the
linker recursively marks as used any section referenced by their
relocations. See `--entry' and `--undefined'.

This option can be set when doing a partial link (enabled with option `-r').
In this case the root of symbols kept must be explicitly specified either by
an `--entry' or `--undefined' option or by a ENTRY command in the linker
script.

___

There, in FreeBSD forum, they do not agree.

https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/57931/page-3

Fre;D







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Re: [fpc-pascal] Smart link in FreeBSD multi-arch ?

2016-10-13 Thread Graeme Geldenhuys 
On 2016-10-07 14:38, fredvs wrote:
> FreeBSD has decided to stop FreeBSD 32 bit

I just saw the FreeBSD 11.0 release announcement. In the "Availability"
list, i386 is still mentioned.

  https://www.freebsd.org/releases/11.0R/announce.html


Regards,
  Graeme

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Re: [fpc-pascal] Smart link in FreeBSD multi-arch ?

2016-10-11 Thread Michael Schnell 

On 07.10.2016 17:19, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote:


  there goes my
idea of using RPi's as small stand-alone servers. :-/


Pi 3 does feature a 64 Bit CPU. (AFAIK, no 64 Bit Linux for same, yet. 
BSD: no idea)


-Michael
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Re: [fpc-pascal] Smart link in FreeBSD multi-arch ?

2016-10-07 Thread fredvs 
 Fred's post seems to mainly 

Marco van de Voort wrote
>  Fred's post seems to mainly 
> be about biarchs though, and that is a completely different story.

Sadly no.
No more biarch because no more FreeBSD32. 

Fre;D 



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Re: [fpc-pascal] Smart link in FreeBSD multi-arch ?

2016-10-07 Thread Marco van de Voort 
In our previous episode, Graeme Geldenhuys said:
> 
> But they just recently added support for RaspberryPi. Does that mean
> FreeBSD on RaspberryPi will now also discontinue? If so, there goes my
> idea of using RPi's as small stand-alone servers. :-/

Well, that would probably only involve current, and stable branches would
cover existing targets for several years. Fred's post seems to mainly
be about biarchs though, and that is a completely different story.
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Re: [fpc-pascal] Smart link in FreeBSD multi-arch ?

2016-10-07 Thread Sven Barth 
Am 07.10.2016 17:19 schrieb "Graeme Geldenhuys" <
mailingli...@geldenhuys.co.uk>:
>
> On 2016-10-07 14:38, fredvs wrote:
> > It is extremely sad and I do not understand why to stop 32 bit
development.
>
> But they just recently added support for RaspberryPi. Does that mean
> FreeBSD on RaspberryPi will now also discontinue? If so, there goes my
> idea of using RPi's as small stand-alone servers. :-/

Probably they merely want to kick out x86 32-bit support.

Regards,
Sven
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Re: [fpc-pascal] Smart link in FreeBSD multi-arch ?

2016-10-07 Thread Graeme Geldenhuys 
On 2016-10-07 14:38, fredvs wrote:
> It is extremely sad and I do not understand why to stop 32 bit development.

But they just recently added support for RaspberryPi. Does that mean
FreeBSD on RaspberryPi will now also discontinue? If so, there goes my
idea of using RPi's as small stand-alone servers. :-/

Regards,
  Graeme

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Re: [fpc-pascal] Smart link in FreeBSD multi-arch ?

2016-10-07 Thread fredvs 
Hello.

Once again (like always) fpc is whiter than white.

FreeBSD has decided to stop FreeBSD 32 bit and that smart-link problem is
known but they do not want to fix it because of stopping FreeBSD 32 bit
development.

It is extremely sad and I do not understand why to stop 32 bit development.

Fre;D



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Re: [fpc-pascal] Smart link in FreeBSD multi-arch ?

2016-09-22 Thread fredvs 
Re-hello.

Note that in FreeBSD 64 multi-arch, the Linuxator is working perfectly, for
Linux 64 and Linux 32, even with smart-linking 32 bit too.

Fre;D



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Re: [fpc-pascal] Smart link in FreeBSD multi-arch ?

2016-09-22 Thread fredvs 
Hello Graeme.

Thanks for answer.

I do not know who is the guilty...

In FreeBSD 64 multi-arch all the libraries 64 bit are in /lib/ or /usr/lib/
or /usr/local/lib
 and all 32 bit libraries are in  /usr/lib32 or /usr/local/lib32.

But for ld-elf*.so both ld-elf.so and ld-elf32.so are in same directory
/libexec/.

I have try to put ld-elf32.so in /usr/lib32 or /usr/local/lib32 but it does
not work.

It is clear that the smart link links to the wrong ld-elf but I do not know
who or what is the cause.

It seems to me that fpc is not 100 % white in that history.

Fre;D




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Re: [fpc-pascal] Smart link in FreeBSD multi-arch ?

2016-09-22 Thread Graeme Geldenhuys 
On 2016-09-21 18:07, fredvs wrote:
> Hope somebody has understood.

I didn't actually see a question in your post. Are you saying FPC is at
fault or 64-bit FreeBSD is at fault? If the latter, I would raise the
issue in their web forums.

I would have expected a 64-bit FreeBSD system to have different search
paths, but consistent library naming. For example (this is just an
example, I don't know if this really exists):

  /compat/linux/lib  <---|
  /compat/linux/user/lib/<---+- denotes 32-bit by default (could
be other way round too)
  /compat/linux/lib64/
  /usr/local/lib/<-- denotes 64-bit on 64-bit FreeBSD OS.
  /usr/local/lib32/  <-- 32-bit FreeBSD libraries


Regards,
  Graeme

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[fpc-pascal] Smart link in FreeBSD multi-arch ?

2016-09-21 Thread fredvs 
Hello.

I will try to explain the problem...

In a multi-arch system (64 bit system that can run 32 bit apps too) FreeBSD
64, there is problem if a fpc 32 bit application was compiled with smart
link (-XX).

This because FreeBSD call *ld-elf32.so.1* for 32 bit applications, in place
of *ld-elf.so.1* in his multi-arch sytsem. 

On mono-arch system (32 bit or 64 bit), FreeBSD call ld-elf.so.1 (that for
32 or 64 bit).

So, to resume, with smart link (-XX) in a 32 bit FreeBSD app, the link would
search first for *ld-elf32.so.1* and if not exist, search for *
ld-elf.so.1*.

And it is not the case, with -XX, the program search only for *ld-elf.so.1*,
even if it is on a multi-arch system.

Hope somebody has understood.

Thanks.

Fre;D





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Many thanks ;-)
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