Apache FCGI in a a jail under FBSD 9 won't start due to shared memory creation error
Hi. I'll try this again. I run systems using FreeBSD 9.0 FreeBSD utah.XXXcom 9.0-STABLE FreeBSD 9.0-STABLE #1: Wed Mar 21 15:22:14 MDT 2012 chad@underhill:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/UNDERHILL-XEN amd64 and on those systems run a bunch of jails. I have Apache 2.2 built and running in the jail in question, and recently had need to add mod_fcgid to it. NOTE that the Apache and mod_fcgid were not installed through ports or packages. I download the source and build myself (for various reasons). Apache inside the Jail, with mod_fcgid enabled will not start: [Mon Jul 23 10:59:35 2012] [emerg] (78)Function not implemented: mod_fcgid: Can't create shared memory for size 1192488 bytes I did a search on this and found that I would probably need a system kernel parameter changed from 0 - 1 security.jail.sysvipc_allowed So I did that. (And restarted the jail). However, I still get the same error when trying to start apache. I noticed a similar parameter security.jail.param.allow.sysvipc but cannot change this at run time and did not find anything useful about what this parameter is for using a search engine. (As an aside, how would I change security.jail.sysvipc_allowed and also security.jail.param.allow.sysvipc at boot time? I added them both to /boot/loader.conf but they did not get changed at boot and I had to do the security.jail.sysvipc_allowed one again on the command line -- I have some vfs type kernel state variables set there and they stick) I would appreciate some help with getting things set up so that I can run apache with mod_fcgid under my Jails on FBSD 9. Thanks! Chad
Apache FCGI in a a jail under FBSD 9 won't start due to shared memory creation error
Hi I run systems using FreeBSD 9.0 FreeBSD utah.XXXcom 9.0-STABLE FreeBSD 9.0-STABLE #1: Wed Mar 21 15:22:14 MDT 2012 chad@underhill:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/UNDERHILL-XEN amd64 and on those systems run a bunch of jails. I have Apache 2.2 built and running in the jail in question, and recently had need to add mod_fcgid to it. NOTE that the Apache and mod_fcgid were not installed through ports or packages. I download the source and build myself (for various reasons). Apache inside the Jail, with mod_fcgid enabled will not start: [Mon Jul 23 10:59:35 2012] [emerg] (78)Function not implemented: mod_fcgid: Can't create shared memory for size 1192488 bytes I did a search on this and found that I would probably need a system kernel parameter changed from 0 - 1 security.jail.sysvipc_allowed So I did that. (And restarted the jail). However, I still get the same error when trying to start apache. I noticed a similar parameter security.jail.param.allow.sysvipc but cannot change this at run time and did not find anything useful about what this parameter is for using a search engine. (As an aside, how would I change security.jail.sysvipc_allowed and also security.jail.param.allow.sysvipc at boot time? I added them both to /boot/loader.conf but they did not get changed at boot and I had to do the security.jail.sysvipc_allowed one again on the command line -- I have some vfs type kernel state variables set there and they stick) I would appreciate some help with getting things set up so that I can run apache with mod_fcgid under my Jails on FBSD 9. Thanks! Chad ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
segmentation fault in sqlite3 on 6.2R amd64
Hi In installing trac I ran across a segmentation fault in the initenv command. This seems to be the same problem as shown here: http://www.nabble.com/ports-116383%3A-sqlite3-%28from-databases- sqlite3%29-segfault-tf4449251.html#a12694631 Running it in gdb shows Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault. [Switching to Thread 0x50c000 (LWP 100331)] 0x000802f76869 in sqlite3Fts2InitHashTable () from /usr/public/ lib/libsqlite3.so.8 (gdb) backtrace #0 0x000802f76869 in sqlite3Fts2InitHashTable () from /usr/ public/lib/libsqlite3.so.8 #1 0x000802f74f8f in sqlite3Fts2Init () from /usr/public/lib/ libsqlite3.so.8 #2 0x000802f41be5 in openDatabase () from /usr/public/lib/ libsqlite3.so.8 #3 0x000802e0bd91 in pysqlite_connection_init () from /usr/ public/lib/python2.5/site-packages/pysqlite2/_sqlite.so #4 0x0008006ab6fb in PyType_IsSubtype () from /usr/public/lib/ libpython2.5.so.1 #5 0x00080066ec83 in PyObject_Call () from /usr/public/lib/ libpython2.5.so.1 #6 0x000802e09f95 in module_connect () from /usr/public/lib/ python2.5/site-packages/pysqlite2/_sqlite.so #7 0x00080066ec83 in PyObject_Call () from /usr/public/lib/ libpython2.5.so.1 #8 0x0008006dc6da in PyEval_EvalFrameEx () from /usr/public/lib/ libpython2.5.so.1 #9 0x0008006dec34 in PyEval_EvalCodeEx () from /usr/public/lib/ libpython2.5.so.1 #10 0x0008006888be in PyFunction_SetClosure () from /usr/public/ lib/libpython2.5.so.1 #11 0x00080066ec83 in PyObject_Call () from /usr/public/lib/ libpython2.5.so.1 #12 0x0008006dc272 in PyEval_EvalFrameEx () from /usr/public/lib/ libpython2.5.so.1 #13 0x0008006de336 in PyEval_EvalFrameEx () from /usr/public/lib/ libpython2.5.so.1 #14 0x0008006dec34 in PyEval_EvalCodeEx () from /usr/public/lib/ libpython2.5.so.1 #15 0x0008006dd9fb in PyEval_EvalFrameEx () from /usr/public/lib/ libpython2.5.so.1 #16 0x0008006dec34 in PyEval_EvalCodeEx () from /usr/public/lib/ libpython2.5.so.1 rest snipped I do the simple test command as shown in the nabble.com link above and get basically the same thing # gdb sqlite3 GNU gdb 6.1.1 [FreeBSD] Copyright 2004 Free Software Foundation, Inc. GDB is free software, covered by the GNU General Public License, and you are welcome to change it and/or distribute copies of it under certain conditions. Type show copying to see the conditions. There is absolutely no warranty for GDB. Type show warranty for details. This GDB was configured as amd64-marcel-freebsd...(no debugging symbols found)... (gdb) r comments.db CREATE TABLE comments (page, name, email, url, body); Starting program: /usr/public/bin/sqlite3 comments.db CREATE TABLE comments (page, name, email, url, body); (no debugging symbols found)...(no debugging symbols found)...(no debugging symbols found)...(no debugging symbols found)...(no debugging symbols found)...(no debugging symbols found)... Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault. 0x000800698869 in sqlite3Fts2InitHashTable () from /usr/public/ lib/libsqlite3.so.8 (gdb) backtrace #0 0x000800698869 in sqlite3Fts2InitHashTable () from /usr/ public/lib/libsqlite3.so.8 #1 0x000800696f8f in sqlite3Fts2Init () from /usr/public/lib/ libsqlite3.so.8 #2 0x000800663be5 in openDatabase () from /usr/public/lib/ libsqlite3.so.8 #3 0x00403133 in open_db () #4 0x004053b8 in main () (gdb) Anyone else see this same thing or know about this problem? A Google search does not show this mentioned except at the above link. Thanks Chad --- Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC Your Web App and Email hosting provider chad at shire.net ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Opinions Wanted: Dell PowerEdge Servers ... ?
On Jun 24, 2006, at 10:21 PM, Nick Withers wrote: I tend to think of Dell as a low-end provider that will cobble together systems based on whatever bits happen to be lying around (don't think that one PE 2650 is the same as the next!), which in turn are invariably the cheapest bits available for a particular job. I've made this sound bad - somewhat intentionally - but there's certainly a market for cheap over quality. Just remember that Dell's business model is lower costs at all costs. They have made it a science of driving costs down, mostly by buying subgrade parts and moving their (at least) consumer tech support to areas of the world that have lower costs , and people you cannot understand very well (I have heard better of their enterprise tech support). I personally would never buy a Dell (both personal friends and acquaintances who have had problems as well as the more than average reports you hear about them) now, though 8 years ago I had a friend who swore by them -- he was an IT Director for a small company. There is a reason that Apple's Market Cap is equal to or greater than Dells with a 1/4 of the revenue... Not a technical answer. Chad --- Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC Your Web App and Email hosting provider chad at shire.net ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
can't build Java 1.5.0 on FreeBSD/i386 6.0-RELEASE (inside jail)
Hi I have successfully built Java 1.4.2 inside a jail on 5.4, but am having problems doing the same thing for 1.5.0 on 6.0. I have all the Sun stuff downloaded as well as the linux 1.4.2 runtime port installed fine. The build ran for a million hours. At which point it came back with: gmake[5]: Entering directory `/usr/ports/java/jdk15/work/j2se/make/ sun/javac/javac' gmake /usr/ports/java/jdk15/work/control/build/bsd-i586/bin/javac VARIANT=OPT gmake[6]: Entering directory `/usr/ports/java/jdk15/work/j2se/make/ sun/javac/javac' rm -f /usr/ports/java/jdk15/work/control/build/bsd-i586/tmp/sun/ com.sun.tools.javac/javac/.classes.list /usr/ports/java/jdk15/work/control/build/bsd-i586/bin/java - classpath ../../../tools/CompileProperties CompileProperties ../../../../src/share/classes/com/sun/tools/javac/ resources/compiler.properties /usr/ports/java/jdk15/work/control/ build/bsd-i586/gensrc/com/sun/tools/javac/resources/compiler.java Error: could not find libjava.so Error: could not find Java 2 Runtime Environment. gmake[6]: *** [/usr/ports/java/jdk15/work/control/build/bsd-i586/ gensrc/com/sun/tools/javac/resources/compiler.java] Error 2 gmake[6]: Leaving directory `/usr/ports/java/jdk15/work/j2se/make/sun/ javac/javac' gmake[5]: *** [optimized] Error 2 gmake[5]: Leaving directory `/usr/ports/java/jdk15/work/j2se/make/sun/ javac/javac' gmake[4]: *** [all] Error 1 gmake[4]: Leaving directory `/usr/ports/java/jdk15/work/j2se/make/sun/ javac' gmake[3]: *** [all] Error 2 gmake[3]: Leaving directory `/usr/ports/java/jdk15/work/j2se/make/ java/javac' gmake[2]: *** [all] Error 1 gmake[2]: Leaving directory `/usr/ports/java/jdk15/work/j2se/make/java' gmake[1]: *** [all] Error 1 gmake[1]: Leaving directory `/usr/ports/java/jdk15/work/j2se/make' gmake: *** [j2se-build] Error 2 *** Error code 2 Stop in /usr/ports/java/jdk15. # a find shows: # find / -name libjava.so -print /usr/local/linux-sun-jdk1.4.2/jre/lib/i386/libjava.so /usr/ports/java/jdk15/work/control/build/bsd-i586/lib/i386/libjava.so /usr/ports/java/linux-sun-jdk14/work/j2sdk1.4.2_10/jre/lib/i386/ libjava.so # Google showed various issues none of them related to building and installing. thanks for any ideas Chad --- Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC Your Web App and Email hosting provider chad at shire.net ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
speccing an NFS server -- smp good or bad?
For a FBSD (or Solaris 10) based server that is only acting as an NFS server and nothing else, is there any advantage to using an SMP machine? Any disadvantage? Does CPU speed play any great factor (ie, use a 1.8ghz opteron instead of a 2.2ghz opteron for example)? I am planning for a Spring project to make an nfs server that serves to multiple web servers / application servers using an Areca 1130 SATA raid card. I assume lots of RAM for the OS to use to cache would be desirable and GB ethernet. Thanks Chad --- Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC Your Web App and Email hosting provider chad at shire.net ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
(also 5.4) re: Abort Trap for cron-jobs in 5.3
a few months ago the following appeared in -stable In the last episode (Mar 15), Niklas Saers said: On Tue, 15 Mar 2005, Niklas Saers wrote: I've got four servers that all have the same problem: when jobs get started from Cron, they die after some time with an Abort trap. Jobs that are dying are: /usr/libexec/atrun /var/log/cron 21 /usr/bin/nice -10 /usr/ local/bin/zsh /root/bin/sendBarkMail.sh /dev/null 21 I also get this on virtually every shell-script that uses tar, leaving my filesystem littered with bsdtar.core files. Running these jobs from the command prompt works fine. Any suggestions on what may be causing them to die from cron? sendBarkMail.sh simply moves mails from one folder to another periodically Note to self: ask the question. ;-) What I'm wondering about is: what could be causing the Abort Trap's? World and kernel are a recent RELENG_5_3 compiled like described in src/UPDATING. What's the stack trace from one of those cores? Also, try not redirecting stdout and stderr to /dev/null; you are probably discarding a valuable error message. -- Dan Nelson dnelson at allantgroup.com I saw the same thing in 5.3 and newly upgraded to 5.4 and it is still happening. It seems to happen randomly. There is no output or error redirection and nothing useful in the output/error stream that I can see. Mostly inside of jails. To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Cron Daemon [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 11:55:04 -0400 Subject: Cron [EMAIL PROTECTED] /usr/libexec/atrun Abort trap Chad --- Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC Your Web App and Email hosting provider [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
URGENT -- AP #1 (PHY #1) failed -- what does this mean?
Hi Sorry for the URGENT line. I have a critical server running 5.4- RELEASE-p1. It is a dual AMD MP 2800+ (Gigabyte board) with 4GB RAM and an Adaptec 2100S raid controller. Running (obviously) an SMP kernel. I recompiled the kernel this afternoon and changed one line -- the options HZ line from HZ=1100 to HZ=400 as a test of PHP performance. That was the only thing changed (the machine had been up since I installed 5.4 on it June 1). I built and installed the kernel and tonight I rebooted the machine. Now when it boots it comes up and real memory = 3758030848 (3583 MB) avail memory = 3678240768 (3507 MB) ACPI APIC Table: GBT AWRDACPI AP #1 (PHY# 1) failed! panic y/n? [y] What does this mean (and what do I do about it)? I am off to Google but as I am in a real tight spot I thought I would ask for some help asap before I go and try and figure this out. Thanks Chad ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
interesting device full issue on jail host machine
pid 80941 (tcsh), uid 5051 inumber 166876 on /local/jails/jail1: filesystem full pid 80941 (tcsh), uid 5051 inumber 166876 on /local/jails/jail1: filesystem full pid 80941 (tcsh), uid 5051 inumber 166876 on /local/jails/jail1: filesystem full pid 80941 (tcsh), uid 5051 inumber 166876 on /local/jails/jail1: filesystem full pid 80941 (tcsh), uid 5051 inumber 166876 on /local/jails/jail1: filesystem full pid 80941 (tcsh), uid 5051 inumber 166876 on /local/jails/jail1: filesystem full pid 80941 (tcsh), uid 5051 inumber 166876 on /local/jails/jail1: filesystem full pid 80941 (tcsh), uid 5051 inumber 166876 on /local/jails/jail1: filesystem full pid 80941 (tcsh), uid 5051 inumber 166876 on /local/jails/jail1: filesystem full pid 80941 (tcsh), uid 5051 inumber 166876 on /local/jails/jail1: filesystem full pid 80941 (tcsh), uid 5051 inumber 166876 on /local/jails/jail1: filesystem full pid 80941 (tcsh), uid 5051 inumber 166876 on /local/jails/jail1: filesystem full pid 80941 (tcsh), uid 5051 inumber 166876 on /local/jails/jail1: filesystem full Ok, I had a billion (several complete system logs worth in one morning) of the above message in my system log of a machine used to host jails. This is on a 5.3-R machine. The file system mentioned, / local/jail/jail1 is a /dev/md -- md(4) type file system used to constrain the user in that specific jail to a certain amount of space and to make it easy to dump that filesystem for backups. I don't know what the user of that jail was doing or when it started happening. Is the inumber 166876 an inode inside the filesystem? Or what does it refer to? I don't know why it continuously stuck that message thousands of times in the system log but I killed the process with that PID and all was well. My interesting issue is that on ssh login to OTHER JAILS on other / dev/md type filesystems, that had nothing to do with that jail or filesystem, login was prevented as the login process would print a similar message to the one above in the login window over and over and over and would never complete login. /local/jails/jail1: write failed, filesystem is full /local/jails/jail1: write failed, filesystem is full /local/jails/jail1: write failed, filesystem is full /local/jails/jail1: write failed, filesystem is full /local/jails/jail1: write failed, filesystem is full Only when I killed the offending process did it allow the login to continue. However, this seemed to be hit or miss. Sometimes an ssh login to a jail (not the offending jail) would work and sometimes it would do the above. Why would this issue with this one jail file system affect jails that had nothing to do with the full filesystem and what happens at login that would dump these console type messages to the ssh login window? Thanks Chad --- Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC Your Web App and Email hosting provider [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
noob question on disk sizes and inode density
Ok I have an md(4) file system that I changed the block size and inode density on. The file was about 1.3GB in size originally and when using newfs with standard parameters shows about 1.3GB in size. My new parameters to newfs ( -f 512 -b 4096 -i 1024 -U -O 2) are meant to allow a lot of small files (basically lots of files around 170bytes long). (holding mail tuples for a sort of grey listing) However, df (df -h or df -m etc) shows 1.0Gb instead of 1.3Gb for the file system size. Is the missing ~ 300mb the extra space needed to store the actual extra inodes themselves or is it an artifact of changing the parameters so that df gets confused? Thanks Chad --- Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC Your Web App and Email hosting provider [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
how to make shared library cache (ldconfig cache) changes permanent?
I have a new directory I want to be always used to look for shared libraries. I do a % ldconfig -m /usr/public/lib and all is well. However, on reboot, the changes go away and I have to do it again. Does not work so well if things that start up at boot time rely on libraries in the new directory. How can I execute this so it is a permanent addition? Thanks Chad ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Stability problems with 5.3-Release
On Apr 21, 2005, at 4:22 PM, Chris McGee wrote: I've got 2 identical boxes (Supermicro sys-6023P-8R) running with ZCR adaptec cards with 6 73Gig seagate scsi drives, 4 Gigs of ram, and dual 2.4 Ghz Xeons. Both of these machines are running 5.3-Release-p8. The usually run for a day, give or take, and then they crash. The just deadlock, no console response, no nothing. The get power cycled and they are fine for a little while again. These are configured to be mysql database servers. I can provide any information necessary, but i'm stumped and it's causing me a lot of heartache now. What were they running before -p8 ? And were you having similar problems? Chad ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Stability problems with 5.3-Release
On Apr 21, 2005, at 7:42 PM, Christopher McGee wrote: Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC wrote: On Apr 21, 2005, at 4:22 PM, Chris McGee wrote: I've got 2 identical boxes (Supermicro sys-6023P-8R) running with ZCR adaptec cards with 6 73Gig seagate scsi drives, 4 Gigs of ram, and dual 2.4 Ghz Xeons. Both of these machines are running 5.3-Release-p8. The usually run for a day, give or take, and then they crash. The just deadlock, no console response, no nothing. The get power cycled and they are fine for a little while again. These are configured to be mysql database servers. I can provide any information necessary, but i'm stumped and it's causing me a lot of heartache now. What were they running before -p8 ? And were you having similar problems? Chad Unfortunately, nothing. These were brand new boxes, installed 5.3 from cd, cvsup'd to latest 5.3-Release, and starting installing the few ports we needed. I can't go to an RC. The higher powers won't allow running anything but a full release. It was a pretty big hassle even implementing 5.3 vs 4.x. ok, just wondering if you had updated from a lower -p level of 5.3 or 5.3-RELEASE with no patches or 5.2.1 or something, so we could see if something happened in a recent patch Chad ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
kernel option HZ and mysql
I have a self-compiled mysql 4.1 (4.1.9) on FreeBSD 5.3. (Not built from ports for various reasons). The system load skyrockets when the web server that is using the mysql for its PHPnuke storage starts to get 100 or so or more active sessions. It appears that mysql is the culprit. The webserver is a prefork apache 2 with php5 and runs on the same system. top and other monitors show very little cpu on the httpd processes but lots on the mysql. There is plenty of free and inactive RAM and the CPUs are not particularly stresses (dual Opteron 2.0ghz in i386 mode). I am thinking that maybe the HZ setting could be causing some inefficiencies for mysql. It is set at HZ=1300 mysql itself was compiled with $ ./configure --prefix=/usr/public/mysql/mysql4.1 --enable-assembler --enable-thread-safe-client --without-debug --with-extra-charsets=complex and it uses ldd mysqld mysqld: libz.so.2 = /lib/libz.so.2 (0x283c2000) libcrypt.so.2 = /lib/libcrypt.so.2 (0x283d2000) libpthread.so.1 = /usr/lib/libpthread.so.1 (0x283ea000) libstdc++.so.4 = /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.4 (0x2840e000) libm.so.3 = /lib/libm.so.3 (0x284e) libc.so.5 = /lib/libc.so.5 (0x284fa000) I would appreciate it if someone who has experience in this with mysql and HZ and HZ in general could comment on how HZ might affect mysql performance and system load. Thanks Chad ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: 5.8TB RAID5 SATA Array Questions
On Apr 14, 2005, at 5:28 PM, Benson Wong wrote: So theoretically it should go over 1000TBI've conducted several bastardized installations due to sysinstall not being able to do anything over the 2TB limit by creating the partition ahead of timeI am going to be attacking this tonight and my efforts will be primarily focused on creating one large 5.8TB slice.wish me luck!! PS: Muhaa haa haa! You're probably going to run into boo hoo hoo hoo. Most likely you won't be able to get over the 2TB limit. Also don't use sysinstall, I was never able to get it to work well. Probably because my arrays were mounted over fiber channel and fdisk craps out. This is what I did: dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/da0 bs=1k count=1 disklabel -rw da0 audo newfs /dev/da0 I have no experience doing any of this. But this has come up before in the lists and someone posted on the magic incantations to use to create these things by hand. So use google or other search engine to search the list archives on tb sized file systems. There is good info there Chad ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
disk backed mdX type volumes -- overhead?
On FreeBSD 5.3, what is the overhead compared to a filesystem directly on the HW, of an /dev/mdX device with a file system on it living on the same HW device? Thanks Chad ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Digital Cameras
On Apr 8, 2005, at 2:13 PM, Ralph wrote: --- Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Apr 4, 2005, at 10:28 PM, Sergei Gnezdov wrote: Is there a chance to get digital camers working with FreeBSD? All I need is load images from camera using USB port. Most digital camera's today implement the USB mass storage system, so you should just try and plug the camera in. It may work! Chad Chad/All, From experience (I have the Canon Digital Rebel) I can say that plugging the camera won't be as simple as plugging in the CFCard into a CFCard reader and then into you USB port as a mass storage device. The Canon requires a bunch of drivers and special software even on the Windows box I copy stuff to. I don't know about the Rebel, but the Canon 20D SLR can be put into two different modes (using the on camera menus), one of which works like a USB mass storage device (at least when plugged into my OS X computer) and one that does not work like that. (I remove the card and use a reader though). However, most consumer level digital cameras, except the cheapest ones, do act as USB mass storage devices when plugged in. The Digital SLR types may be different. (And some of your special software on windows may be to read RAW files and stuff like that). I have used a Minolta DiIMAGE X and a Sony DSC-T1 myself as USB Mass storage devices (under OS X) and have seen relatives use a Canon consumer level one of some sort. Most of the non-SLR and the non-super-el-cheapo digital cameras work with iPhoto under OS X without special drivers and show up on the desktop (as USB Mass Storage devices). I would assume they should behave the same with FreeBSD. Note that this does not give you any sort of photo management or anything... It is worth a try. Chad ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Digital Cameras
On Apr 4, 2005, at 10:28 PM, Sergei Gnezdov wrote: Is there a chance to get digital camers working with FreeBSD? All I need is load images from camera using USB port. Most digital camera's today implement the USB mass storage system, so you should just try and plug the camera in. It may work! Chad ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: no flames, please.
On Mar 11, 2005, at 1:25 PM, Gary Kline wrote: If I install Windows 1st (I have to, right?), should I save NN gigs of disc space for SuSE when I buy their CD? Is there a better flavor on Linux that I should consider? Depending on how much you like to do and how much you want a click-here-and-install-and-be-done type Linux, a lot of people who are BSD oriented like gentoo Linux for its package management system that is similar to ports etc. Chad ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: how to change process limits?
On Mar 11, 2005, at 8:21 AM, Dan Nelson wrote: In the last episode (Mar 10), Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC said: On Mar 10, 2005, at 2:46 PM, Dan Nelson wrote: In the last episode (Mar 09), Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC said: The following is aon 5.3-RELEASE-p5 If I do a limits command I get # limits Resource limits (current): datasize 524288 kb stacksize 65536 kb # However, login.conf has (and no other classes defined) default:\ :datasize=unlimited:\ :stacksize=unlimited:\ I am wondering where the datasize and stacksize get set. These have limits when listed with limits but they do not appear to be getting set through login as the login.conf has unlimitged. I believe those are extra-hard limits enforced by the kernel. You can raise them by adding this to /boot/loader.conf: kern.maxdsiz=2147483648 kern.maxssiz=2147483648 Should I be able to do a sysctl to look at their current values? On my 5.3 and my 4.9 systems, there are no kern.max%siz listed at all (% = d or s) to inspect. You would be able to if they were sysctls, but they're just tunables. You can see what tunables are set by running kenv, but that only shows entries that you or the kernel have explicitly set. Personally, I think all the TUNABLE_*_FETCH variables in /sys/kern/subr_parm.c should be sysctls with the CTLFLAG_TUN flag set, so they are visible as both tunables and sysctls. Some currently have sysctl nodes created in other places (kern.maxfiles is in /sys/kern/kern_descrip.c, for example), but many don't. OK, thanks! I learn something new every day. I was not aware if sysctls being different... best regards Chad ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: no flames, please.
On Mar 11, 2005, at 5:59 PM, Gary Kline wrote: PS: When did DEC ever have a PeeCee? I remember their 11/* machines fondly; the next thing I knew they got bought out by a PC firm. DEC had lots of PCs. Desktops, laptops. etc. Even SAMs club had DEC PCs. They started off with their proprietary Pros and Rainbows, then went to industry standard PCs once the BIOSes had been legally cloned. Part of their PC work was with Olivetti. This page lists a few of them: http://h18000.www1.hp.com/legacysupport/digital/retired.html best Chad ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: no flames, please.
On Mar 11, 2005, at 7:24 PM, Gary Kline wrote: On Fri, Mar 11, 2005 at 06:24:10PM -0700, Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC wrote: On Mar 11, 2005, at 5:59 PM, Gary Kline wrote: PS: When did DEC ever have a PeeCee? I remember their 11/* machines fondly; the next thing I knew they got bought out by a PC firm. DEC had lots of PCs. Desktops, laptops. etc. Even SAMs club had DEC PCs. They started off with their proprietary Pros and Rainbows, then went to industry standard PCs once the BIOSes had been legally cloned. Part of their PC work was with Olivetti. Wasn't it DEC that crreated the early 64-bit Alpha?? Or was this afteer they were sold down the river to was it Compac?? I didn't know DEC was selling Intel PCs. Yes, the Alpha was a DEC product. My dad worked at DEC from 76 through around 92 and I worked there 88-93 as well as two summers in 84 and 85. Until Ken Olsen left and things started to fall apart, I was ready to work there my whole life. Chad ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
how to change process limits?
Hi The following is aon 5.3-RELEASE-p5 If I do a limits command I get # limits Resource limits (current): cputime infinity secs filesize infinity kb datasize 524288 kb stacksize 65536 kb coredumpsize infinity kb memoryuseinfinity kb memorylocked infinity kb maxprocesses 5547 openfiles 11095 sbsize infinity bytes vmemoryuse infinity kb # However, login.conf has (and no other classes defined) default:\ :passwd_format=md5:\ :copyright=/etc/COPYRIGHT:\ :welcome=/etc/motd:\ :setenv=MAIL=/var/mail/$,BLOCKSIZE=K,FTP_PASSIVE_MODE=YES:\ :path=/sbin /bin /usr/sbin /usr/bin /usr/games /usr/local/sbin /usr/local/bin /usr/X11R6/bin ~/bin:\ :nologin=/var/run/nologin:\ :cputime=unlimited:\ :datasize=unlimited:\ :stacksize=unlimited:\ :memorylocked=unlimited:\ :memoryuse=unlimited:\ :filesize=unlimited:\ :coredumpsize=unlimited:\ :openfiles=unlimited:\ :maxproc=unlimited:\ :sbsize=unlimited:\ :vmemoryuse=unlimited:\ :priority=0:\ :ignoretime@:\ :umask=022: -- I am wondering where the datasize and stacksize get set. These have limits when listed with limits but they do not appear to be getting set through login as the login.conf has unlimitged. I have looked at the output of sysctl -a with grep for various things (limit, datasize, 512 524288 etc and not seen any obvious candidates) I am trying to run stuff from the Coroner's Toolbox and am getting Out of memory! and so would like to try this with some adjusted process values. Any help on where these get set and how to change them would be appreciated. Thanks Chad ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: how to change process limits?
On Mar 10, 2005, at 2:46 PM, Dan Nelson wrote: In the last episode (Mar 09), Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC said: The following is aon 5.3-RELEASE-p5 If I do a limits command I get # limits Resource limits (current): datasize 524288 kb stacksize 65536 kb # However, login.conf has (and no other classes defined) default:\ :datasize=unlimited:\ :stacksize=unlimited:\ I am wondering where the datasize and stacksize get set. These have limits when listed with limits but they do not appear to be getting set through login as the login.conf has unlimitged. I believe those are extra-hard limits enforced by the kernel. You can raise them by adding this to /boot/loader.conf: kern.maxdsiz=2147483648 kern.maxssiz=2147483648 Should I be able to do a sysctl to look at their current values? On my 5.3 and my 4.9 systems, there are no kern.max%siz listed at all (% = d or s) to inspect. thanks Chad ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
how to recover (at least part of) a deleted file?
Hi I have a 5.3-REL-p5 system and I accidently deleted an apache log before processing it. I would like to recover as much as possible from it. I have been looking in the sysutils ports and Googling but have not come up with a way of doing this. What is the best way to attempt to recover a lost file or its contents, or as much as possible of it??? Thanks Chad ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: how to recover (at least part of) a deleted file?
On Mar 9, 2005, at 12:09 PM, Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC wrote: Hi I have a 5.3-REL-p5 system and I accidently deleted an apache log before processing it. I would like to recover as much as possible from it. I have been looking in the sysutils ports and Googling but have not come up with a way of doing this. What is the best way to attempt to recover a lost file or its contents, or as much as possible of it??? I should mention -- this is ufs2 Chad ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: how to recover (at least part of) a deleted file?
On Mar 9, 2005, at 12:12 PM, Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC wrote: On Mar 9, 2005, at 12:09 PM, Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC wrote: Hi I have a 5.3-REL-p5 system and I accidently deleted an apache log before processing it. I would like to recover as much as possible from it. I have been looking in the sysutils ports and Googling but have not come up with a way of doing this. What is the best way to attempt to recover a lost file or its contents, or as much as possible of it??? I should mention -- this is ufs2 And in case it matters, what happened was I mv'ed the file to a different name and created a new log file. ie % mv access_log access_log.20050309; touch access_log I restarted apache I then accidently did the move again so it replaced my previous saved copy with a new smaller one. Chad ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
how to change process limits?
Hi The following is aon 5.3-RELEASE-p5 If I do a limits command I get # limits Resource limits (current): cputime infinity secs filesize infinity kb datasize 524288 kb stacksize 65536 kb coredumpsize infinity kb memoryuseinfinity kb memorylocked infinity kb maxprocesses 5547 openfiles 11095 sbsize infinity bytes vmemoryuse infinity kb # However, login.conf has (and no other classes defined) default:\ :passwd_format=md5:\ :copyright=/etc/COPYRIGHT:\ :welcome=/etc/motd:\ :setenv=MAIL=/var/mail/$,BLOCKSIZE=K,FTP_PASSIVE_MODE=YES:\ :path=/sbin /bin /usr/sbin /usr/bin /usr/games /usr/local/sbin /usr/local/bin /usr/X11R6/bin ~/bin:\ :nologin=/var/run/nologin:\ :cputime=unlimited:\ :datasize=unlimited:\ :stacksize=unlimited:\ :memorylocked=unlimited:\ :memoryuse=unlimited:\ :filesize=unlimited:\ :coredumpsize=unlimited:\ :openfiles=unlimited:\ :maxproc=unlimited:\ :sbsize=unlimited:\ :vmemoryuse=unlimited:\ :priority=0:\ :ignoretime@:\ :umask=022: -- I am wondering where the datasize and stacksize get set. These have limits when listed with limits but they do not appear to be getting set through login as the login.conf has unlimitged. I have looked at the output of sysctl -a with grep for various things (limit, datasize, 512 524288 etc and not seen any obvious candidates) I am trying to run stuff from the Coroner's Toolbox and am getting Out of memory! and so would like to try this with some adjusted process values. Any help on where these get set and how to change them would be appreciated. Thanks Chad ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jail security
On Mar 7, 2005, at 9:35 AM, Frank de Bot wrote: Jorn Argelo wrote: On Mon, 07 Mar 2005 17:04:41 +0100, Frank de Bot wrote Hi, I've set up a jail. But I don't have any idea how safe a jail is. Often is told chroot and jails can be escaped. How safe is it to give other people user access to a jailed environment? or maybe even root... A jailed process cannot leave its jail. Unless some exploit is being found in jail itself, but that's rather unlikely. A cracker can only mess up your jail and not your entire host. So if you build 4 jails for Apache, MySQL, Squid and Postfix for instance, each of those processes will only run in its jail and cannot interact with another jail or the host. Which is more secure then just putting everything on your host. Another major advantage of jails is that you can experiment at will without touching your production enviroment. Just create a jail and install apache in the other jail. Once you are finished and it works, just amend your firewall settings and you're ready to go. If you're experienced enough I'd encourage you to use them. It can be complicated for a newbie, but if you know your way around FreeBSD and the command line, you should really use jails. Jorn. What if an exploit is found, then root should have the greatest chance to break out of the jail, or not? Should it be possible to assign root another UID in a jail (this is pretty unlikely I think), so IF it breaks out it will find hisself working as a user at the host system :-P I know it is not exhaustive, and other exploits for escaping chroot/jail may come up, but I have tried many o fthe common chroot ones and never had any luck escaping from a jail... Look at it this way -- if you don't use them for protection, they are already on your machine :-) This is an insulating layer. Chad ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: tech question
On Mar 7, 2005, at 12:31 AM, Michael C. Shultz wrote: On Sunday 06 March 2005 11:28 pm, popbox wrote: Excuse me for foolish question and pig latin. I'm a new user of FreeBSD and I have a trouble with mounting DVD. There is no separated information in your documentation (Handbook) about this question. I tried to mount DVD the same way as CD. It is not enough, I think. You looked at http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/creating- dvds.html This does not seem to answer the OP question. That pages deals with creating various sorts of writable DVDs. Chad ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: security advisories and the creating time of my system
Gruss On Mar 2, 2005, at 10:53 AM, Stevan Tiefert wrote: $FreeBSD: src/sbin/ifconfig/ifconfig.c,v 1.92 2003/10/26 04:36:47 peter Exp $ Basically, if your sources, or the particular source file in question, are not newer than correction date listed in the security alert then you need to follow the directions to fix or workaround the problem. Nathan Hello Nathan, in a security advisory in part V. is written: V. Solution Perform one of the following: 1) Upgrade your vulnerable system to 4-STABLE or 5-STABLE, or to the RELENG_5_3, RELENG_5_2, RELENG_4_10, or RELENG_4_8 security branch dated after the correction date. Can you say me how to get of a running system the date? Because if the system is after the correction date I do not have to download via ftp. If not I have to... Do you have sources (/usr/src tree) on your system? Then do what nathan said -- look at the date in the source file for the thing the security advisory was about. There are also various patch levels, though I am not sure where they are documented. That would show in the uname -a as for example 5.3-RELEASE-p5 Chad ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Is Yahoo! moving from FreeBSD?
On Feb 26, 2005, at 7:40 AM, Anthony Atkielski wrote: Jon Drews writes: If you think the FreeBSD community is a nightmare then why are you sticking around except to stir up strife ? It's the closest thing to support available for FreeBSD. There's nothing else. I am sorry, but I get the same level of support here that I do in the Windows list, if not more. And that is all I have for WIndows as well? What? You want me to pay for Windows support? Then pay for your damn BSD support! There are consultants and companies you can pay for your FreeBSD support that will offer you much better support than you get now. Chad I do note, however, that only about 10% of my questions to the list actually generate useful answers. The other questions either get no replies at all, or vague replies that really aren't useful, or pure guesses. One gets the impression that nobody really knows anything about FreeBSD, or, if anybody does, he never replies to this list. Indeed, the only messages that generate replies are those that suggest that FreeBSD is anything other than sweetness and light. Serious questions about how to use the software are met by a deafening silence in too many cases. That's why I say what I do on my Web site. Anyone thinking of running FreeBSD in a production environment needs on-site experts to deal with it, because they'll never get any help from anywhere else. -- Anthony ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Is Yahoo! moving from FreeBSD?
On Feb 25, 2005, at 1:01 AM, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: And they are still buying Microsoft Office because their users are demanding it. I don't believe this. I believe that a few users demand it, and by default everyone else gets it. Some manager or IT VP or someone decides that is the new corp standard and that is it. Chad ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Is Yahoo! moving from FreeBSD?
On Feb 25, 2005, at 12:47 PM, Anthony Atkielski wrote: Ted Mittelstaedt writes: Your missing the point. It's far more cost-effective for a business to not hire a bunch of whiners in the first place. They aren't whiners. It's perfectly logical for them to want to work with software for which they are already trained, and it's equally logical for a company to let them work with software for which they are already trained. There's no reason at all to retrain them on something completely different. But I don't expect this kind of whining from someone I hire at $30K a year to actually do some real clerical work that requires some responsibility, and I am not going to stand for it for the $60K and above grown up adult that I hire for a managerial or ops position or some such. I guess you can spend another $60K on training them to use something else and hope they don't leave until you amortize that additional expense (if you ever do). But that doesn't seem to make very good business sense. Give me a break. Most all (excepting a few power users or financial analysts) users of Office in corporate work use about 2% (or some small amount) of the features of Office and have never received formal training. They write a few memos in Word, and a few incidental uses of perhaps PowerPoint or Excel. They are self taught. They use Office through institutional inertia. I have worked in both large and small organizations and this is true across the board. Very few people have had specialized training using MS Office, and very few people use it for more than writing memos, simple spreadsheets of their budget (adding up stuff), etc. If they were given some other program that they could write memos with, and were told to use it, they would. There are no massive costs involved in retraining the major mass of employees. There may be a couple of power users who use Office to a large percentage of its capabilities and who would need to be retrained. Those are the facts. Office is used throughout the corporate world because of simple corporate institutional inertia and some high level manager or IT person declaring that that is the standard. The training costs come in the custom apps that people actually have to use to do their work. SAP, and that sort of thing and other custom SW. Or specialized software like Photoshop or Final Cut Pro, etc. where a small number of people are experts at using specialized tools. Chad Unfortunately, there's still too many upper managers in business today who came of age before the computer became integrated into business, and chose to be lazy and not learn how to use them, and as a result today cannot themselves operate the things, so it is not possible for them to hold their employees to any kind of standard in this area. They already _know_ how to use computers; they just aren't familiar with the software that you personally prefer. They know the most popular software on the market and how to use it; they can get their work done with that software alone, without any need for anything else. There is no reason for them to look elsewhere for software, nor is there any reason for them to waste time and money learning other, more obscure software packages that just do nothing more than Office already does. Managers don't have an emotional attachment to any type of computer software. They run Office because everyone knows how to use Office. And employees want Office because that's what they know how to use. It's perfectly rational, and fully cost-effective, and it has nothing to do with laziness or the age at which someone was first exposed to computers. All throughout our businesses careers, we will be faced with this problem of having to unlearn the old way of doing things and learn new, better ways. Not necessarily. When something works well enough, there's no reason to learn anything else. Everyone that works in a job faces this. Not necessarily. Even in jobs that require the use of a computer, it isn't necessary to relearn things over and over. Microsoft Word and Excel haven't changed significantly in ages. Unfortunately, many people choose to refuse to unlearn old ways, and a larger percentage of them get like this when they have been doing the old way for a long time. They have to have a good reason to learn new ways, and because someone in the IT department hates Microsoft isn't a good reason. -- Anthony ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Linux Drivers
On Feb 24, 2005, at 1:50 AM, Soheil Hassas Yeganeh wrote: Dear all, Can freebsd load linux drivers? No ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: your mail
(BOn Feb 23, 2005, at 9:21 AM, Matthew Seaman wrote: (B (B [*] Kame is Japanese for turtle, or more precisely it's an English (B transliteration of the Japanese for turtle. (B (BNo, it is one of the Romaji transliterations [may be the only one since (Bit is a simple word, but there are multuple systems] for the japanese (Bfor turtle $B55!!(Bor $B$+$a(B (B (BThe roman alphabet is one of the accepted alphabets and is used in (Bwriting japanese, by japanese, with English out of the question, when (Bthey cannot write kanji/hiragana/katakana. (B (BChad (B___ (Bfreebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list (Bhttp://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions (BTo unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Different OS's? Marketshare
On Feb 23, 2005, at 12:23 PM, Jacob S wrote: On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 19:46:47 +0100 Anthony Atkielski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jacob S writes: Good. I'm glad to see the average Windows user looking around the computer store still gets to see an alternative once in a while. I'm pretty sure I've seen Mandrake, SuSE, RedHat, Fedora, and a couple of other Linux versions in computer stores. A few years ago, I bought my first copy of FreeBSD (4.3) in a computer store. Now I can't find FreeBSD anywhere; I had to burn my own CD from a download to install 5.3. So, FreeBSD is vulnerable to this same hypocrasy; where it is sold in stores but still hailed as a free OS? I think you are misunderstanding what free means. Though I think RMS is a closet-communist and dislike the GPL, his description of Free is pretty good. Don't think free as in Free Beer... Chad ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Different OS's? Marketshare
On Feb 23, 2005, at 12:32 PM, Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC wrote: On Feb 23, 2005, at 12:23 PM, Jacob S wrote: On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 19:46:47 +0100 Anthony Atkielski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jacob S writes: Good. I'm glad to see the average Windows user looking around the computer store still gets to see an alternative once in a while. I'm pretty sure I've seen Mandrake, SuSE, RedHat, Fedora, and a couple of other Linux versions in computer stores. A few years ago, I bought my first copy of FreeBSD (4.3) in a computer store. Now I can't find FreeBSD anywhere; I had to burn my own CD from a download to install 5.3. So, FreeBSD is vulnerable to this same hypocrasy; where it is sold in stores but still hailed as a free OS? I think you are misunderstanding what free means. Though I think RMS is a closet-communist and dislike the GPL, his description of Free is pretty good. Don't think free as in Free Beer... As a follow up http://www.fsf.org/licensing/essays/free-sw.html I am not saying I agree or disagree with everything written, but it gives a good idea of what Free means as in Free Software. Chad ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Window managers (was: Different OS's? Marketshare)
On Feb 23, 2005, at 10:56 PM, Anthony Atkielski wrote: Greg 'groggy' Lehey writes: Possibly. It could also be something primitive like twm, of course. I meant whatever is used most on commercial UNIX configurations, like Solaris or whatever I'd be likely to encounter on a large site. It appears that CDE is a strictly commercial package, so I won't be using that. Someone I know works at SUN. He said most of the people there that he knows have ditched CDE and use Gnome :-( and I think SUN may be adopting Gnome or one of the other ones to replace CDE Chad How hard is it to _uninstall_ window managers and desktops? Confronted with bewildering choices, I have Xfce downloading now; it looked clean in the screen shots and apparently it doesn't require many resources. KDE looks awfully heavy and adolescent and I don't know that I'm interested in something that tries so hard to be like Windows. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Why can't I access my floppy disk?
On Feb 22, 2005, at 8:27 AM, Lowell Gilbert wrote: Anthony Atkielski [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Dan Nelson writes: Is it write-protected? Securelevel too high? Check your console or dmesg output; the kernel may be printing more info there. No console messages that I've seen, but securelevel=3. Does securelevel=3 prevent me from mounting floppies?? Why would you want to mount an MSDOS floppy on a server? That reduces the security and stability of your server Chad (before any of you reply, go research Anthony's missives on servers) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SSH terminal locking up from OS X to FreeBSD
On Feb 22, 2005, at 2:59 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * Eric F Crist [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2005-02-22 15:55:32 -0600]: Does it hang at certain times? Again, across multiple versions of OS X and FreeBSD, I've never experienced a problem. I haven't found a time that it will not hang after a few minutes. (Never put a stopwatch to it.) Your comments that you've never experienced a problem are similar to a colleague of mine. Either you guys are not logging into a problem FreeBSD machine or there is some configuration option that I have/have not set on my OS X machine. I'm still puzzled as to how to track it down. I've been logging in to FreeBSD systems from OS X for years without issue. I currently log into FreeBSD 4.9 and 5.3 from 10.3.5-8 systems. I have not ever had to do anything strange on the OS X side nor on the FreeBSD side. Can you run the FreeBSD sshd daemon in debug mode and see what it spits out at you when you attempt to log in? Does this happen with all your OS X machines or just one in particular? Chad ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SSH terminal locking up from OS X to FreeBSD
On Feb 22, 2005, at 10:04 PM, Jim Freeze wrote: * Chuck Swiger [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2005-02-22 18:43:39 -0500]: Jim Freeze wrote: Show us what SSH shows when the connection locks up. In particular, try doing a RETURN~? after you get the connection lockup and see whether you get a menu of escape sequences back. Hmm, I never knew about that. So, I finally got tcpdump working, and after the terminal locks up, hitting return produces no affect on the command line, but the ssh connection is still open because I can see data go by on my tcpdump window. And, I DO get the menu of escape sequences back after typing RETURN~?, but I was not successful in getting anything to work. In fact, the tcpdump messages pretty much stopped after a few key strokes. Just for giggles, what happens when you try a different encryption method with the ssl client? For example, -c blowfish man ssh for more details Chad ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Good rentable servers?
On Feb 21, 2005, at 12:44 AM, bsdnooby wrote: Instead of getting a fixed IP address at my house, and having a noisy machine running all the time - I think I might want to try renting a dedicated FreeBSD server. It would be used for running Apache, phpBB, email, listserv, and a few other services. I found several places that have dedicated FreeBSD machines to rent, their prices seems to all be $99 a month. Is there a cheaper or better option? Maybe a virtualized server or a jail? Whatever you do, make sure that the server you get has redundancies built into it -- redundant power supplies, mirrored disks, ECC RAM etc. These are thing things that keep your machine up and running even when there are failures. They separate the crap servers from the professional ones. Chad ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Need IMAP Server Selection Advice
On Feb 20, 2005, at 7:07 PM, Jeff Hinrichs wrote: I'd have to agree with the poster. For a small installation Courier is faster to get up and running the Cyrus. But once you start having to use it with 20-30 users, Cyrus is hands down a better deal. Yes, it does take a more grokking to get Cyrus running correctly but not having shell accounts on your mailserver is a blessing. You don't need shell accounts for courier. Please explain how Cyrus is easier with 20-30 or more users... Courier conforms to standards, unlike Cyrus (in terms of mail layout etc) and is easier to tie in to ant MTA system you want (that can do maildir) and my installation that supports more than 20-30 accounts works just fine, with no shell accounts... best Chad ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
exports errors
My /etc/exports file looks like /local -maproot=0 -alldirslocalhost /usr/ports -maproot=0 localhost /local/2 -maproot=0 -alldirslocalhost /local/2/jail1/usr/ports -maproot=0 -alldirs localhost /local/jails/wo_mount -maproot=0 -alldirslocalhost 192.168.252.252 /local/2/jail1/compat -maproot=0 -alldirs localhost Each of these entries in the exports is a separate file system. From df (snipped to just show the ones in exports): Filesystem1K-blocks Used Avail Capacity Mounted on /dev/aacd1s1d 69418360 8911206 54953686 14%/local /dev/aacd0s4d 23787780 20364498 1520260 93%/local/2 /dev/da1s1c 4056690 261000 3471156 7%/usr/ports /dev/md11 1436078 614290706902 46%/local/2/jail1/compat /dev/md10 3045006 2281898519508 81%/local/2/jail1/usr/ports /dev/md20 1482638 511790852238 38%/local/jails/wo_mount I don't see anything wrong with the exports file (after reading man exports) But I get the following mountd error messages Feb 19 01:14:37 myhost mountd[72430]: can't delete exports for /local/2/jail1/usr/ports: Input/output error Feb 19 01:14:37 myhost mountd[72430]: can't change attributes for /local/2/jail1/usr/ports Feb 19 01:14:37 myhost mountd[72430]: bad exports list line /local/2/jail1/usr/ports -maproot over and over whenever I send a SIGHUP to mountd (which is running mountd -r) However, I can successfully mount localhost:/local/2/jail1/usr/ports which is shown in the following line from df: localhost:/local/2/jail1/usr/ports 3045006 228189851950881% /local/jails/knd/usr/ports Any explanation of the error (what it means and the effects) and possible fixes if any would be appreciated Thanks Chad ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: c++
On Feb 19, 2005, at 2:51 AM, Gert Cuykens wrote:
On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 13:17:51 +0100, Hubert Sokoowski
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 13:05:43 +0100
Gert Cuykens [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
static void callback( GtkWidget *widget, gpointer data ){
g_print (Hello again - %s was pressed\n, (gchar *) data);
}
why do they put () around gchar ?
why can it not be gchar *data ?
You should learn some more about programming in C before you start
writing GTK apps.
hs
Does anybody want to explain what the () thingies are around gchar * ?
It is a typecast -- coercing data to be of type (gchar *) to the
compiler when matching parameter types at compiler time.
Chad
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Re: c++
On Feb 19, 2005, at 4:07 PM, Gert Cuykens wrote:
On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 02:57:53 -0700, Chad Leigh -- Shire. Net LLC
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Feb 19, 2005, at 2:51 AM, Gert Cuykens wrote:
On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 13:17:51 +0100, Hubert Sokoowski
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 13:05:43 +0100
Gert Cuykens [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
static void callback( GtkWidget *widget, gpointer data ){
g_print (Hello again - %s was pressed\n, (gchar *) data);
}
why do they put () around gchar ?
why can it not be gchar *data ?
You should learn some more about programming in C before you start
writing GTK apps.
hs
Does anybody want to explain what the () thingies are around gchar *
?
It is a typecast -- coercing data to be of type (gchar *) to the
compiler when matching parameter types at compiler time.
Chad
lol :) I wish you could see the expression on my face while reading it
:)
Why can i not do this ?
g_print (Hello again - %s was pressed\n, gchar *data);
or this
gchar *data;
g_print (Hello again - %s was pressed\n, *data);
or this
gchar *data;
g_print (Hello again - %s was pressed\n, data);
What does coercing mean ?
Why does the compiler have to match parameters ?
I'll let you look up the answers above in C reference manuals (and C++
ones for by reference parameters). However, the answer to Why is best
known to Kernighan and Ritchie http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/cbook/
C is (now) a strongly typed language and this type checking is done at
compile time in order to try and help you reduce errors.
PS what is the difference between ?
Assuming the following declaration
gpointerdata;
data is a pointer to some kind of structure
A=*data
this is the data itself, ie, the pointer is dereferenced
A=data
this is the pointer to the data
A=data
this is a kind of double indirection -- this is a reference to the
pointer to the data. I believe this sort of notation for a reference
first came from Bjarne Stroustrop or however he spells it -- the
father of C++
I am not a C nor C++ expert. I long ago stopped doing C++ and my C is
mostly confined to Objective-C now-a-days. Best to get the latest KR
C book and a good C++ book to answer your questions.
best
Chad
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Re: raid1
On Feb 19, 2005, at 6:39 PM, Spades wrote: How do we check if FreeBSD recorgnises it as individual drives or Hardware RAID array. Your raid chip appears to be a software ATA raid. man ata The raid appears as arN according to man ata look in the dmesg to see what happened at boot -- this will tell you how the controller and drives were found by FreeBSD /var/run/dmesg.boot Chad - Original Message - From: Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Sandy Rutherford [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Spades [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2005 5:46 PM Subject: Re: raid1 On Feb 19, 2005, at 12:37 AM, Sandy Rutherford wrote: On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 23:51:53 -0700, Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: On Feb 18, 2005, at 11:39 PM, Spades wrote: hi, my server hardware supports hardware raid, i installed it as per normal freebsd 5.3, however i see no difference in df. its using 2 x 160GB, what do i do during the installation to enable the raid? mobo: http://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/Xeon800/E7320/X6DVL- EG.cfm -bash-2.05b$ df Filesystem 1K-blocks UsedAvail Capacity Mounted on /dev/ad4s1a 66008394 35424 60692300 0%/ devfs 1 10 100%/dev ... What do you expect to see? A raid1 is a mirror set and to the OS would probably look like a single drive if it truly is a HW raid This should be true of any hardware RAID level, not just RAID1. The HW RAID presents logical drives to the OS, which look like real drives to it. The caveat is that the RAID driver will appear as the disk type. I don't have any experience with SATA RAID, but on my server, which has a Mylex ExtremeRAID 1100 SCSI RAID card, a df gives: Filesystem 1K-blocksUsed Avail Capacity Mounted on /dev/mlxd0s1a ... /dev/mlxd0s1d ... /dev/mlxd0s1h ... /dev/mlxd0s1e ... /dev/mlxd0s1f ... /dev/mlxd0s1g ... /dev/mlxd1s1e ... /dev/mlxd1s1f ... /dev/mlxd1s1g ... /dev/mlxd2s1e ... mlx(4) is the driver for this card. The underlying hard drive structure doesn't look anything like the above, but this is irrelevant to the OS. Regarding your situation, I believe that your MB uses an Adaptec SATA controller. You should find out exactly what the controller is and if it is supported in Hardware Notes. I would expect that if your controller is supported and found, then ad should be replaced by the relevant driver. Also, have a look at the dmesg output. There should be some sign that the OS is recognizing your RAID controller. According to the MB specs at the URL given by the OP, the SATA is an Intel 6300ESB (part of a more general IO chip) 6300ESB (Hance Rapids) SATA Controller (2x Drive support) 2x SATA Ports RAID 0, 1, JBOD support I don't see any specific mention of this in any of the HW notes for 5.3. I would be interested to see the dmesg output at boot time to see what the system sees for devices and controllers. If it is an ATA raid (pseudo HW RAID) then it would show as arX devices and not adX according to the handbook. Chad ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Verizon's EVDO and FreeBSD
On Feb 18, 2005, at 12:50 AM, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: -Original Message- From: Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 1:34 PM To: Ted Mittelstaedt Cc: 'Mikhail Teterin'; Robert Kim, EVDO-Coverage, Verizon Agent; List Free Bsd Subject: Re: Verizon's EVDO and FreeBSD On Feb 17, 2005, at 2:03 PM, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: Robert, Hmm - The Mac source (I assume your talking Mac OS X) would probably be the best to start with. It might be a very easy port to whatever version of FreeBSD was used for the version of Mac OS X you wrote the driver for. Mac OS X is not based on FreeBSD. Whoah there Chad! Please refer to the following website, guy!: http://developer.apple.com/documentation/MacOSX/Conceptual/ OSX_Technology _Overview/index.html Note the following statement there: ...Beneath the appealing, easy-to-use interface of Mac OS X is a rock-solid, UNIX-based foundation called Darwin that is engineered for stability, reliability, and performance. Darwin integrates a number of technologies, most importantly Mach 3.0, operating-system services based on FreeBSD 5, --^^ It has a BSD user layer and compatibility layer and they DO use the FreeBSD userland for their own, No, a lot more than that, see Darwin. Yes, there is a BSD personality mode that offers (some) kernel services use BSD APIs. This is so the userland works right and sees what it expects. And so that BSD style sys utils like sysctl will work and stuff. Still a layer on top of a totally different architecture. but the driver level is MUCH different. I know that, but that is today, not yesterday. Bob stated the old open source driver, I took that to mean a version 1.0 driver released for the first ever version of MacOS X. Even if it was an old driver made for the first ever version of MacOS X, the driver level interfaces are much different so I don't see much how it would help you. Mind you, I have not written a driver for OS X or FreeBSD, but the opposite question often comes up on some OS X forums/lists I read... best regards Chad I didn't know this card and service was a new thing. Ted ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Loopback addresses and socket() inside of jail
While tracking down test errors while installing Apache 2.0.53 and mod_perl2.0.0-RC4 into a jail process on a FreeBSD 5.3 server, we have encountered some errors with how the ip is being resolved for the loopback device. Using test code from the Apache project[1], we were able to determine that a client socket created with an unspecified sin_addr (which defaults to 0.0.0.0) is not able to resolve to the loopback device. If you patch the original nonblock.c with the lines listed below, the script will work and it will be apparent that the listener socket is able to resolve the 0.0.0.0 address to the real ip whereas the client is not. How does address 0.0.0.0 work inside of a jail? The code nonblock.c starts up a listener on that address, which works, and then tries to connect to it and it fails. Thanks, William McKee and Chad Leigh [1] http://www.apache.org/~jorton/nonblock.c 65a66 printf(listening to %s:%d\n, inet_ntoa(sa.sin_addr), listen_port); 76a78 sa.sin_addr.s_addr = inet_addr (127.0.0.1); ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: raid1
On Feb 18, 2005, at 11:39 PM, Spades wrote: hi, my server hardware supports hardware raid, i installed it as per normal freebsd 5.3, however i see no difference in df. its using 2 x 160GB, what do i do during the installation to enable the raid? mobo: http://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/Xeon800/E7320/X6DVL- EG.cfm -bash-2.05b$ df Filesystem 1K-blocks UsedAvail Capacity Mounted on /dev/ad4s1a 66008394 35424 60692300 0%/ devfs 1 10 100%/dev /dev/ad4s1d 66008394 24 60727700 0%/home /dev/ad4s1e 10154158 683442 8658384 7%/usr /dev/ad4s1f 8172302982 7517536 0%/var -bash-2.05b$ What do you expect to see? A raid1 is a mirror set and to the OS would probably look like a single drive if it truly is a HW raid Chad ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: raid1
On Feb 18, 2005, at 11:56 PM, Josh Paetzel wrote: On Saturday 19 February 2005 00:51, Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC wrote: On Feb 18, 2005, at 11:39 PM, Spades wrote: hi, my server hardware supports hardware raid, i installed it as per normal freebsd 5.3, however i see no difference in df. its using 2 x 160GB, what do i do during the installation to enable the raid? mobo: http://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/Xeon800/E7320/X6DV L- EG.cfm -bash-2.05b$ df Filesystem 1K-blocks UsedAvail Capacity Mounted on /dev/ad4s1a 66008394 35424 60692300 0%/ devfs 1 10 100%/dev /dev/ad4s1d 66008394 24 60727700 0%/home /dev/ad4s1e 10154158 683442 8658384 7%/usr /dev/ad4s1f 8172302982 7517536 0%/var -bash-2.05b$ What do you expect to see? A raid1 is a mirror set and to the OS would probably look like a single drive if it truly is a HW raid Chad The RAID will ususally show up as something other than ad(x). Generally you create the RAID array in the controller's BIOS and FreeBSD detects it as a single disk (in my case ar0). You may want to google around to see if your controller is supported. That is generally because they are not real HW raids, AFAIK. My adaptec HW raid controller shows the raid arrays as daX just like a normal adaptec SCSI drive. No difference. (or my other adaptec ones show the raidsets and single drives as aacX, and my Rocket RAID 1820a seems to show everything as a daX) I won't claim to know how this really works with these pseudo HW raid controllers built into the MBs, but from what I read in this list, FreeBSD has to read the RAID config on the disks in the ata driver, which to me says it is not a real HW raid. If it was a true HW raid, FreeBSD wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a raidset and a single disk. Chad ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: raid1
On Feb 19, 2005, at 12:37 AM, Sandy Rutherford wrote: On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 23:51:53 -0700, Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: On Feb 18, 2005, at 11:39 PM, Spades wrote: hi, my server hardware supports hardware raid, i installed it as per normal freebsd 5.3, however i see no difference in df. its using 2 x 160GB, what do i do during the installation to enable the raid? mobo: http://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/Xeon800/E7320/X6DVL- EG.cfm -bash-2.05b$ df Filesystem 1K-blocks UsedAvail Capacity Mounted on /dev/ad4s1a 66008394 35424 60692300 0%/ devfs 1 10 100%/dev ... What do you expect to see? A raid1 is a mirror set and to the OS would probably look like a single drive if it truly is a HW raid This should be true of any hardware RAID level, not just RAID1. The HW RAID presents logical drives to the OS, which look like real drives to it. The caveat is that the RAID driver will appear as the disk type. I don't have any experience with SATA RAID, but on my server, which has a Mylex ExtremeRAID 1100 SCSI RAID card, a df gives: Filesystem 1K-blocksUsed Avail Capacity Mounted on /dev/mlxd0s1a ... /dev/mlxd0s1d ... /dev/mlxd0s1h ... /dev/mlxd0s1e ... /dev/mlxd0s1f ... /dev/mlxd0s1g ... /dev/mlxd1s1e ... /dev/mlxd1s1f ... /dev/mlxd1s1g ... /dev/mlxd2s1e ... mlx(4) is the driver for this card. The underlying hard drive structure doesn't look anything like the above, but this is irrelevant to the OS. Regarding your situation, I believe that your MB uses an Adaptec SATA controller. You should find out exactly what the controller is and if it is supported in Hardware Notes. I would expect that if your controller is supported and found, then ad should be replaced by the relevant driver. Also, have a look at the dmesg output. There should be some sign that the OS is recognizing your RAID controller. According to the MB specs at the URL given by the OP, the SATA is an Intel 6300ESB (part of a more general IO chip) 6300ESB (Hance Rapids) SATA Controller (2x Drive support) 2x SATA Ports RAID 0, 1, JBOD support I don't see any specific mention of this in any of the HW notes for 5.3. I would be interested to see the dmesg output at boot time to see what the system sees for devices and controllers. If it is an ATA raid (pseudo HW RAID) then it would show as arX devices and not adX according to the handbook. Chad ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: problems getting a jail running on 5.3-RELEASE using man 8 jail
Sorry to top post but this is general info There is a bug in 5.3-RELEASE make files that has been fixed in -STABLE. See the archives for previous discussions on this. Chad On Feb 17, 2005, at 12:26 PM, Viren Patel wrote: I am running a 5.3-RELEASE-p5 machine. $uname -a FreeBSD twinmp.tcbug.org 5.3-RELEASE-p5 FreeBSD 5.3-RELEASE-p5 #0: Wed Feb 9 16:54:40 CST 2005 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/TWINMP i386 Hardware is basic PC sound/lan/video, 4 IDE channels, dual AMD MP processors. dmesg is attached. I am following the following procedure in the jail manpage: #D=/usr/local/jail #cd /usr/src #mkdir -p $D #make world DESTDIR=$D #cd etc #make distribution DESTDIR=$D #mount_devfs devfs $D/dev #cd $D #ln -sf dev/null kernel I get to: #make world DESTDIR=$D and the compile fails at the following point: === games/fortune/strfile /usr/obj/usr/src/i386/usr/src/games/fortune/strfile created for /usr/src/games/fortune/strfile rm -f .depend mkdep -f .depend -a -I/usr/obj/usr/src/i386/legacy/usr/include /usr/src/games/fortune/strfile/strfile.c echo strfile: /storage/jail/usr/lib/libc.a /usr/obj/usr/src/i386/legacy/usr/lib/libegacy.a .depend cc -O -pipe -I/usr/obj/usr/src/i386/legacy/usr/include -c /usr/src/games/fortune/strfile/strfile.c make: don't know how to make /storage/jail/usr/lib/libc.a. Stop *** Error code 2 Stop in /usr/src. *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/src. *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/src. This is reproducable on my hardware with RELEASE-5.3, RELEASE-5.3-p2 and RELEASE-5.3-p5. I found an email in the -questions mailing list in which the author has the same errors that I do attempting to build world. http://docs.FreeBSD.org/cgi/mid.cgi?57d71501131800788ec662 If I replace: #make world DESTDIR=$D with #env DESTDIR=$D make world everything goes fine. (just for kicks I tested with /bin/sh /bin/csh and /usr/local/etc/zsh) I considered sending a patch for man 8 jail but thought it would be better to get input first. If a solution isn't found I'll send-pr the docproj with a patch. -- Thanks, Josh Paetzel ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello. I have also had success with: #/bin/tcsh #setenv DESTDIR /path/to/jail then follow the instructions for Setting up a Jail Directory Tree. FYI: also look at Managing Jails on FreeBSD 5 at http://www.devco.net - invaluable and should be added, if possible, to the jail man pages IMHO. -- Viren Patel Chemistry Biochemistry University of Texas at Austin ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Verizon's EVDO and FreeBSD
On Feb 17, 2005, at 2:03 PM, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: Robert, Hmm - The Mac source (I assume your talking Mac OS X) would probably be the best to start with. It might be a very easy port to whatever version of FreeBSD was used for the version of Mac OS X you wrote the driver for. Mac OS X is not based on FreeBSD. It has a BSD user layer and compatibility layer and they DO use the FreeBSD userland for their own, but the driver level is MUCH different. Chad FreeBSD 3.X was used as the base for the original merge of Next code. I don't know how much divergence there's been since then. If your lucky with little effort a FreeBSD 3.5 or early 4.x driver might be had. With a bit more effort that could be ported to the current FreeBSD source tree. Are you sure that the EVDO card doesen't use an off-the-shelf ethernet or wireless controller chip already? Is there a URL for the Mac driver source code? Ted -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Robert Kim, EVDO-Coverage, Verizon Agent Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 12:36 PM To: 'Mikhail Teterin' Cc: List Free Bsd Subject: RE: Verizon's EVDO and FreeBSD Welll... Yes... The EVDO system technically DOES work on FREEBSD... BUT.. You have to personally modify the Old Open Source Mac driver to do it... OR.. Just mod the Linux driver... Tell you what... Since I don't have a copy... If anyone does this... And gets me a working driver ... I will get you a FREE EVDO card... And 3 free months of service... Lemme know.. X Robert Kim, Verizon Wireless Agent (TM) http://EVDO-Coverage.com 2611 S Pacific Coast Highway 101 Cardiff by the Sea CA 92007 206 984 0880 Internet Service Is ONLY Broadband with Broadband Customer Service(tm) OUR QUEST: To Kill the Cubicle! (SM) ---Shalo--- ;-) -Original Message- From: Mikhail Teterin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 12:21 PM To: Robert Kim, EVDO-Coverage, Verizon Agent Subject: Verizon's EVDO and FreeBSD Robert Kim, Wireless Internet Wifi Hotspot Advisor http://wireless-internet-broadband-service.com https://evdo.sslpowered.com/wifi-hotspot-router.htm 2611 S Pacific Coast Highway 101 Cardiff by the Sea CA 92007 : 206 984 0880 Wireless Internet Service Is ONLY Broadband with Broadband Customer Service(tm) OUR QUEST: To Kill the Cubicle! (SM) ---Shalo -;-) Is there EVDO-hardware, that works with FreeBSD? Thanks! -mi ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Freebsd vs. linux
On Feb 15, 2005, at 10:48 AM, Anthony Atkielski wrote: That surely explains their sales of XServes and RAID servers. They're off the radar for servers. The only people who install Apple servers are people who are already in love with Apple desktops. They're kind of the inverse of people who fall in love with server operating systems and then insist on forcing them onto the desktop as well. Not true. Apple is getting a lot more server sales outside of their fanboy clubs. The XServe and the XServe RAID are getting a lot of interest in the Enterprise now. (Note that a lot is not anywhere near a majority or huge amount compared to, for example, Windows Server, but a lot is still a lot) Chad ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Quota Questions 5.3 Release
On Feb 15, 2005, at 3:28 PM, Jon Adams wrote: Benjamin Dover wrote: Take a look at this section of the handbook http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/quotas.html Yes, I've read this and am aware of the process of recompiling the kernel to implement quotas (done it before). What I am looking for is an alternative to recompiling the kernel due to the cripppled box I have. Its not left out its just not an standard option. Compiling a kernel is not a difficult task. It sounds more difficult than it really is. I agree... I have FreeBSD 5.3 and a 5.1 box I have lazily not yet updated on a pair of poweredges in my apt, I rebuilt the 5.3 kernel a couple of time when I was experimenting with trying to install Oracle 8i on it (before giving up in frustration due to the Oracle make files exiting emulation) Thanks for the tip on sysinstall... D'oh I replied to Jon off list but wanted to stick it in here for the archives You should be able to just install cvsup and then make an appropriate cvsupfile. This will get you the sources and ports etc if you do it right. One easy thing :-) best Chad ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Instead of freebsd.com, why not...
On Feb 14, 2005, at 6:34 PM, Anthony Atkielski wrote: Vonleigh Simmons writes: If you need to run explorer to access a website, someone should be fired. Standards compliance is a good thing. MSIE has traditionally followed HTML standards more closely than almost any other browser. Firefox does pretty well, tough; Opera much less so. That is laughable. MS IE on Windows has one of the worst reputations around for following web standards. Go ask any professional designer. For a long time, IE on the Mac was one of the best, but it too fell behind and is no a discontinued product. Chad Webmasters should probably be replaced if they design an open Web site for any _specific_ browser. Internal web sites are a different story. -- Anthony ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Instead of freebsd.com, why not...
On Feb 14, 2005, at 6:48 PM, Anthony Atkielski wrote: Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC writes: That is laughable. MS IE on Windows has one of the worst reputations around for following web standards. Go ask any professional designer. I did better. I actually ran the W3C conformance tests against MSIE, and it passed. At the time, no other browser came close. Today, MSIE is not the only browser with good conformance, but it is still one of the best. Firefox is young and has some security issues that worry me, but we shall see. Opera has the disadvantage of not being free, and you don't really get much in exchange for paying for it that you wouldn't already get with Firefox or MSIE. You can say all you want. Every professional designer I have ever talked with lamented the poor state of standards conformance of IE for Windows. And they could document it. MS only has compatibility with itself, and that is it. And since it is the 800lb gorilla, they think they can basically do whatever they want. People I highly respect have done lots of tests of browsers with the standard and conformance to the W3C standards suites and IE Windows does not do that well. Chad ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Freebsd vs. linux
On Feb 14, 2005, at 10:40 PM, Anthony Atkielski wrote: Apple is smart enough to pull it off ... Apple has no advantage over Microsoft in this respect. They are locking their own OS into a GUI, too. But they probably realize that their future is in desktops, not servers. You know not of what you speak. You sure say a lot for being an ignorant person. Apple has a sever advantage over Microsoft in this respect. The XServe by default does not even ship with a video card and you can admin the whole thing remotely with various tools including the CLI. Chad ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Freebsd vs. linux
On Feb 14, 2005, at 10:49 PM, Anthony Atkielski wrote: An operating system is just a software package. In this context, one can think of the operating system as the aggregate of permanent code executing with kernel privileges. Drivers execute with these privileges but they are essentially add-ons. They aren't written by the same people and they usually aren't written and tested with the same rigor. If I am not mistaken, MS has a certification process for 3rd party drivers. That is, they approve them and digitally sign them. And they stick them on their OS distribution CDs. Hence, they are part of MS's OS offering. They are vetted by MS first. Chad ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Instead of freebsd.com, why not...
On Feb 14, 2005, at 10:32 PM, Anthony Atkielski wrote: Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC writes: You can say all you want. Thank you. I feel better about it knowing that it's okay with you. Every professional designer I have ever talked with lamented the poor state of standards conformance of IE for Windows. They probably never actually tested the browser. no they did and could point out specific problems and likely intentional changes. Google on this issue of Windows IE standard compliance, especially with CSS. You will find reams of info with examples of where MS got it wrong, and many think intentionally got it wrong. Chad And they could document it. Excellent ... where can I find a copy of their documentation? MS only has compatibility with itself, and that is it. It interprets HTML correctly according to W3C standards, and it handles CSS correctly as well. What other compatibility do you require? You can find test suites here: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Test/ (HTML4) http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Test/ (CSS) And since it is the 800lb gorilla, they think they can basically do whatever they want. They know that some criticism of what they do has no basis in fact, and that people without emotional investment in a hatred of Microsoft may actually check the facts and invalidate the criticisms. People I highly respect have done lots of tests of browsers with the standard and conformance to the W3C standards suites and IE Windows does not do that well. I've done the tests myself, instead of believing what others say, and MSIE does fine. The URLs are above. -- Anthony ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Instead of freebsd.com, why not...
On Feb 14, 2005, at 11:11 PM, Anthony Atkielski wrote: Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC writes: no they did and could point out specific problems and likely intentional changes. Where can I see a list of these? http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/02/11/hakon_on_ms_interroperability/ This page points to a bunch. These are not the ones from people I know and respect as those communications were not public communications and their work not published on the web. Google on this issue of Windows IE standard compliance, especially with CSS. You will find reams of info with examples of where MS got it wrong, and many think intentionally got it wrong. I've already tested the browser myself, with the official test suites. It did better than any other overall. Based on your other postings, I don't think you'd know if they really passed or not. Merely rendering a page does not mean it passes. There are lots of subtleties in CSS. Chad In any case, MSIE doesn't run on FreeBSD. -- Anthony ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Freebsd vs. linux
On Feb 13, 2005, at 12:54 AM, Anthony Atkielski wrote: Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC writes: Or if you are a BSD/UNIX/Linux admin. It is a lot easier to ssh and do all the other things you want with your unix-like servers from Mac OS X than from Windows. Why? I use SecureCRT and SecureFX for FTP, and both work beautifully. I have not used that, but I doubt it beats using a real openssh client inside a unix based terminal emulator in terms of terminal emulation and shell compatibility. As I said, I have not used this one, but all the other windows ones I have tried sucked royally. I've never found a solution for running an X Server on Windows, They exist. A friend of mine had one running on w2000 several years ago logging into hi BSD and Linux boxes using xterm. It worked reasonably well. but since I'm unwilling to run X on my production FreeBSD server, it hasn't been too much of an issue. It will be if I decide to set up another machine with X. I was not talking about an X11 server. I do have one on my Mac but I rarely run it. I occasionally have a need. I was talking about native Mac OS X capabilities and applications. The userland is based on the FreeBSD one, though the underlying kernel and plumbing are a custom Mach solution. Since OS X is a unix-life platform, and has the same toolchain and a very similar environment to FreeBSD and Linux, it meshes a lot easier. I have a Windows XP machine sitting here that dual boots with NT. I rarely boot it though. I do have one website that was developed in a Windows (-only) based program that needs to be updated occasionally (soon to be replaced by a WebObjects dynamic app)... And a few games that I have not bothered to play in months are on the machine. I do everything else on my Mac(s) including bookkeeping/accounting for a couple of businesses, credit card authorizations, software development, email, browsing, netnews, Terminal and ssh into my FreeBSD and lone Linux servers, database admin, word processing, presentations, graphics/photo and video editing (not a lot of the latter unfortunately), and many other things. And I am not a magnet for viruses, spyware, adware, I do not pay a MS tax anymore (I don't plan on updating my Windows machine) and I am much more productive than I was when the Windows 2000 machine was my main workstation. They just work. Something that Windows cannot always say (driver, dll, etc conflicts, screwed up registry [my W2000 machine is dying a slow death of rot and decay -- I have not a clue on what is wrong but it seems to decay over time as the registry corrupts and rots], etc). I don't see lots of freeze ups and BSOD anymore on Windows -- that has gotten better -- but the inconsistencies and the rot and decay that gradually make the machines less stable (without the spyware/adware/malware too) is enough for me. (And yes, Windows rots and decays, most likely from registry corruptions -- the registry is the dumbest thing they could do -- a single massive point of failure). And I am a techno-geek -- not some average joe user who wouldn't have a clue. Chad -- Anthony ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Instead of freebsd.com, why not...
On Feb 13, 2005, at 12:57 AM, Anthony Atkielski wrote: Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC writes: Maybe companies who support MS or other proprietary software can't as they don't have the source. But support companies that support open source can very easily fix problems -- they have the source and the license to use it Unfortunately, their fix makes the software non-standard. You need to be able to roll fixes into the official release. ? What the heck does this mean? I would bet that most larger installations of Linux or FreeBSD or any other open source OS would be considered non-standard. Heck, I bet YOUR installation of FreeBSD could be considered non-standard. Your statement make absolutely no sense. If the fix that you decry is a reasonable fix, who says it can't be rolled back into an official release. This is open source after all. Chad -- Anthony ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Instead of freebsd.com, why not...
On Feb 13, 2005, at 1:00 AM, Anthony Atkielski wrote: Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC writes: I can't think of any time that MS is the best choice, except in perhaps some vertical market cases. It is often the most convenient choice. Convenience is reason enough by itself to choose a particular OS. The only people who deliberately choose inconvenient operating systems are those with an ax to grind. In that case, Windows is the least desirable, as it is not convenient. The amount of crap you have to put up with (viruses, malware, etc) makes them totally inconvenient. Like the list of software you listed. Most of that can be replaced with other SW -- especially if you switch to Mac OS X, though probably also to a BSD or Linux solution. Maybe ... but that won't allow me to read and write the native file formats of these applications. Sure it does. Apples new Pages.app word processor reads and writes Word .DOC files. OpenOffice can too. Maybe not 100%, but very close, and Microsoft does not guarantee 100% either from version to version. In most cases, except for customized vertical market solutions, Mac OS X and probably in many cases also FreeBSD offers solutions that work with native files. On OS X, you often HAVE the native program, like Photoshop, for example. I'm trying to find a way to reduce my dependence on expensive and bloated applications (which includes most Microsoft applications, unfortunately), but there aren't too many options. There are lots of options for people whose eyes are not closed. The link published in one of these threads about the Ernie Ball guitar string company was interesting. Where there is a will there is a way. Where there is no will, you get stuck with M$ OK, I am done replying to these threads. Chad -- Anthony ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
X on a server Re: Freebsd vs. linux
On Feb 13, 2005, at 1:30 AM, Anthony Atkielski wrote: They exist. A friend of mine had one running on w2000 several years ago logging into hi BSD and Linux boxes using xterm. It worked reasonably well. How much did he pay for it? I don't know which one he used. Sorry. Many of the ones I saw cost hundreds or thousands of dollars, and there was still no guarantee that they'd work well. The few free ones I tried did not work well at all. I'm still interested in learning more, though. However, I won't run x-anything on my FreeBSD system unless it will run without destabilizing changes to the OS (no change in securelevel, no kernel reconfiguration, no special system software modules or daemons). You can install the X libraries and client apps on your server -- this works fine at secure level 3 and does not require kernel configurations changes or special daemons or anything. What it allows you to do is then link software against the X libraries and then redirect the display to your workstations X server. This meets your criteria and can be handy for certain things. Your apps still run in userland only and there is no HW touching stuff. You are not running the X Server on your FBSD Server machine. Chad ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: X on a server Re: Freebsd vs. linux
On Feb 13, 2005, at 2:14 PM, Ean Kingston wrote: On February 13, 2005 03:53 am, Anthony Atkielski wrote: Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC writes: You can install the X libraries and client apps on your server -- this works fine at secure level 3 and does not require kernel configurations changes or special daemons or anything. What it allows you to do is then link software against the X libraries and then redirect the display to your workstations X server. This meets your criteria and can be handy for certain things. Your apps still run in userland only and there is no HW touching stuff. You are not running the X Server on your FBSD Server machine. I'll consider it, although it still sounds complicated. What do I gain from X that I don't already have with remote terminal sessions like those created with SecureCRT? I know it looks pretty, but what server-related things can I do with X that I cannot do with ordinary terminals? I'm not aware of anything right now; it seems that everything can be done from a command line (thank goodness--working with Windows is a nightmare precisely _because_ so many things cannot be done from a command line). I run an XLoad app on every server with the display on my desktop (set to update once a minute. It lets me keep an eye on the general health of the servers during the day. Asside from that I haven't found a truely useful GUI app for servers. I had some java based ecommerce stuff for a server that had an installer that was a GUI, for example. Chad ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as NetBSD!!!
On Feb 11, 2005, at 3:16 PM, Anthony Atkielski wrote: Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC writes: many in no way means a majority. many is more than a few, where a few is a handful (3-5 or so). There are probably more than a handful who do it as more than a hobby. A lot of good people do it on their own time as well, and I salute that. But a lot of people like Yahoo and others (Apple probably) submit stuff that ends up in FreeBSD and they pay their people to do so. Lots of features, like jails as I understand it, started off by someone getting paid to implement stuff. I hope people are not being as careless as you imply. Being paid to write code as an employee means relinguishing copyright in the code to one's employer. If people are actually doing this for FreeBSD, then some of the code in FreeBSD is owned by their employers, which can become a legal nightmare and stop the project dead in its tracks overnight. Aren't there any _lawyers_ working on this project? Sorry, but the employers are freely offering the code and assigning copyrights as necessary. Chad ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Instead of freebsd.com, why not...
On Feb 12, 2005, at 5:59 AM, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: The stabilities of NT-based systems and UNIX are roughly the same when kernels are compared. How exactly does one do this when the NT kernel code isn't available for perusal? Other than, of course, just running both and assuming that because neither happens to crash running a screensaver, that they must be roughly the same. That's a marketing comparison which has no value. After taking out all the kernel level stuff for the GUI and other performance enhancements that MS has made for the gamers and other people, I would say that it is probably true that the NT kernel and the BSD kernels are in the same order of magnitude of stability. Dave Cutler and his crew from DEC did a good job with VMS and VAX/ELN and RSX-11M and I would assume that they would do the same job in their kernel design and implementation for M$. However, since that happened MS has dumped a ton of crap into it. Chad disclaimer: I have not seen the source to NT but I do know the reputations of the implementors and designers of (at least the original) NT kernel. ex-DECcie ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Freebsd vs. linux
I made the choice of FreeBSD in 1996 for my fledgling hosting business. I considered Linux and FreeBSD. At the time, FreeBSD was considered to have a much better VM system under load, and similar sorts of stability characteristics. I chose FreeBSD then and am glad I did so. I do not know what the Linux VM system is like now, 8.5 years later. However, I read some recent remarks by people I would consider competent who say that the FreeBSD VM system is still superior. One of the biggest differences between Linux and the BSD derived systems is the license. If you agree with RMS (Richard Stallman of the FSF) you should probably go with Linux. If you prefer a more free market oriented license that is truly free, then a BSD system is probably more in line with your needs. There are LOTS of technical differences of course, but from a user or admin level, they are both similar, as they are both unix-derived environments. I do have a single gentoo system for some special java processing. At the time it was installed, the FreeBSD java was not at the same level as the Linux one was. Now the differences in the java systems are minor and if I could, I would migrate this machine over to FreeBSD. However, it is in production and such a move would take too much time. best Chad ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Problem with Exim
On Feb 12, 2005, at 8:26 AM, Aaron Dalton wrote: Since upgrading to the latest exim (4.44?) I will occasionally notice I am not receiving mail. I will check the server (ps -ax | grep 'exim') and find that there are dozens of exim processes running (exim -bd -q30m). I will do 'exim.sh stop' but that only kills the initial process and not the others. If I manually kill all the stray processes, as soon as I start receiving mail new ones will appear. If I reboot, then everything works fine for about 24 hours then it starts to happen again. Has anybody else had this happen or does anybody know what might be causing the problem? I do run Exim with Clamav and I keep all my ports updated almost daily. Your time and assistance is greatly appreciated. Aaron Without looking at your exim config file, it is hard to say why your system behaves as it does. However, there is an exim specific list you can use to get help (be prepared to give more detail including config file details). The list is referenced at www.exim.org Chad ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Instead of freebsd.com, why not...
On Feb 12, 2005, at 2:00 PM, Chris Zumbrunn wrote: On Feb 12, 2005, at 9:11 PM, Roger 'Rocky' Vetterberg wrote: Chris Zumbrunn wrote: [snip] http://top.ch/sitedata/freebsd/beastie.gif [snip] Maybe just the FreeBSD part and a couple of stylized horns over it, but that would mean Beastie would not be clearly visible and I dont know if I dare to suggest that. ;) I agree something like this... http://top.ch/sitedata/freebsd/freehorns.gif Looks like a stereo-typed viking :-) Chad ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Freebsd vs. linux
On Feb 12, 2005, at 7:02 PM, Thomas Foster wrote: My solution is to remove emotion from the equation and simply install the best software for the job. On the desktop, that's Windows. -- Anthony Sometimes Mac is a better solution on the desktop, especially when it comes to Multimedia: Video/Audio/Graphics applications. I guess that all depends on the environment... Or if you are a BSD/UNIX/Linux admin. It is a lot easier to ssh and do all the other things you want with your unix-like servers from Mac OS X than from Windows. Chad ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Instead of freebsd.com, why not...
On Feb 12, 2005, at 6:53 PM, Anthony Atkielski wrote: Paul Mather writes: I hate to burst your bubble, but neither is any other OS vendor ultimately accountable for its code. Actually it is. That's why companies tend to prefer support from vendors; vendors have a vested interest in making good on support requests, because they can lose a lot more than just a support contract if they fail to do so. By that, I mean you can file problem reports or trouble tickets or whatever the phrase du jour is, but the company is ultimately under no obligation to fix them. Vendors can fix problems; third-party support companies cannot. ? Maybe companies who support MS or other proprietary software can't as they don't have the source. But support companies that support open source can very easily fix problems -- they have the source and the license to use it Chad ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Instead of freebsd.com, why not...
On Feb 12, 2005, at 6:56 PM, Anthony Atkielski wrote: Bart Silverstrim writes: Every $ spent on a product is another $ supporting it. Incidentally true, but not always the objective. Rarely. Frequently. Many software choices and upgrade decisions today are driven primarily or solely by a need to become or remain compatible with other business partners. Business...some people find alternatives that can read more than one format. Sometimes there are no alternatives. Sometimes there is no advantage in looking for alternatives, since the usual choice is also the best choice. I can't think of any time that MS is the best choice, except in perhaps some vertical market cases. It is often the most convenient choice. Like the list of software you listed. Most of that can be replaced with other SW -- especially if you switch to Mac OS X, though probably also to a BSD or Linux solution. The fact is you find it more convenient not too, even though you could, and would probably be happier without it. Chad ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as NetBSD!!!
On Feb 11, 2005, at 6:00 AM, Bart Silverstrim wrote: Since when did FreeBSD, a project always driven by volunteers and not by commercial matters, suddenly gain a marketing department that is trying to steer FreeBSD into the business sector? Is FreeBSD starting to have marketing dictate technology instead of technology dictate marketing? Sorry, but this does not make sense. FreeBSD is driven by commercial matters. Many of the people that work on it are paid to work on it by their employers, who are using it commercially. FreeBSD will wither away if it does not continue to receive extensive commercial support like Linux gets. When is a logo technology? No one is talking about a logo steering technology or technology steering a logo. The sentence FreeBSD starting to have marketing dictate technology instead of technology dictate marketing? is irrelevant to this discussion. You can have the best technology in the world, but if no one uses it, who cares? Chad ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as NetBSD!!!
On Feb 11, 2005, at 2:34 PM, Frank Laszlo wrote: Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC wrote: On Feb 11, 2005, at 6:00 AM, Bart Silverstrim wrote: Since when did FreeBSD, a project always driven by volunteers and not by commercial matters, suddenly gain a marketing department that is trying to steer FreeBSD into the business sector? Is FreeBSD starting to have marketing dictate technology instead of technology dictate marketing? Sorry, but this does not make sense. FreeBSD is driven by commercial matters. Many of the people that work on it are paid to work on it by their employers, who are using it commercially. FreeBSD will wither away if it does not continue to receive extensive commercial support like Linux gets. I wouldnt say many, there are few commiters who are actually paid to work on it, most commiters/developers do it as a hobby. many in no way means a majority. many is more than a few, where a few is a handful (3-5 or so). There are probably more than a handful who do it as more than a hobby. A lot of good people do it on their own time as well, and I salute that. But a lot of people like Yahoo and others (Apple probably) submit stuff that ends up in FreeBSD and they pay their people to do so. Lots of features, like jails as I understand it, started off by someone getting paid to implement stuff. These things then get added. best Chad ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as NetBSD!!!
On Feb 11, 2005, at 3:11 PM, Anthony Atkielski wrote: Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC writes: Many of the people that work on it are paid to work on it by their employers, who are using it commercially. That would mean that their employers hold a copyright in the FreeBSD code written by their employees; this is a classic implicit work-for-hire arrangement. Have these people signed an agreement with their employers that waives the work-for-hire copyright interest? Look in the codebase Chad ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as NetBSD!!!
On Feb 11, 2005, at 3:13 PM, Anthony Atkielski wrote: Frank Laszlo writes: I wouldnt say many, there are few commiters who are actually paid to work on it, most commiters/developers do it as a hobby. What written agreements do these committers have with their employers? Normally, if you are paid to write something by your employer, your employer owns the copyright in what you write. So unless these committers have specific agreements with their employers to the contrary, they are adding code to FreeBSD that is encumbered by copyrights owned by their employer, and can no longer be freely distributed. NO. Their employers are paying them TO WORK on FreeBSD. They are not taking their code that they write for their employers and also sticking it in FreeBSD. Big difference. In the first case, they are allowing it to happen and assign the copyrights as necessary. Chad ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as NetBSD!!!
On Feb 11, 2005, at 3:16 PM, Anthony Atkielski wrote: Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC writes: many in no way means a majority. many is more than a few, where a few is a handful (3-5 or so). There are probably more than a handful who do it as more than a hobby. A lot of good people do it on their own time as well, and I salute that. But a lot of people like Yahoo and others (Apple probably) submit stuff that ends up in FreeBSD and they pay their people to do so. Lots of features, like jails as I understand it, started off by someone getting paid to implement stuff. I hope people are not being as careless as you imply. Being paid to write code as an employee means relinguishing copyright in the code to one's employer. If people are actually doing this for FreeBSD, then some of the code in FreeBSD is owned by their employers, which can become a legal nightmare and stop the project dead in its tracks overnight. Aren't there any _lawyers_ working on this project? As an example from man jail AUTHORS The jail feature was written by Poul-Henning Kamp for RD Associates http://www.rndassociates.com/ who contributed it to FreeBSD. I would assume, but I do not know, that Poul-Henning Kamp was paid for his work. Then RD Associates contributed it to FreeBSD. I think I have read here that Yahoo has also rolled stuff back into the main line source (I do not have first hand knowledge of this). Apple also rolls stuff back into the BSD source trees. They do so knowingly and with appropriate legalese Chad ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as NetBSD!!!
On Feb 11, 2005, at 3:30 PM, Anthony Atkielski wrote: Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC writes: Look in the codebase No, tell me right here. CIOs aren't going to look in the codebase to try to find out if it's legal for them to use the operating system. You ask a dumb question, get such an answer. You make assumptions that just because someone is paying someone to work on FreeBSD that no one has thought of the copyright implications. The people running the FreeBSD project are smarter than that. And I am not your errand-boy. If you are seriously worried about this, then you need to make the investment necessary to clear your mind on the issue. Asking other people to do so is arrogant. Chad ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as NetBSD!!!
On Feb 11, 2005, at 3:40 PM, Anthony Atkielski wrote: Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC writes: Their employers are paying them TO WORK on FreeBSD. They are not taking their code that they write for their employers and also sticking it in FreeBSD. Big difference. Not if their work consists of writing code. In that case, the copyright in the code belongs to their employer (in the U.S., and in a number of other countries with similar provisions). Yes there is a difference. If the employer assigns it to the FreeBSD project. That is what we are talking about. Under 17 USC 101: A 'work made for hire' is— (1) a work prepared by an employee within the scope of his or her employment; or (2) a work specially ordered or commissioned for use as a contribution to a collective work, as a part of a motion picture or other audiovisual work, as a translation, as a supplementary work, as a compilation, as an instructional text, as a test, as answer material for a test, or as an atlas, if the parties expressly agree in a written instrument signed by them that the work shall be considered a work made for hire. [...] Note that a collective work is generally a book or a movie, not a computer operating system: A 'collective work' is a work, such as a periodical issue, anthology, or encyclopedia, in which a number of contributions, constituting separate and independent works in themselves, are assembled into a collective whole. Computer program is separately defined, which means that it is not a collective work. In the first case, they are allowing it to happen and assign the copyrights as necessary. Do they do this in writing before the code becomes a part of the project? Do they have a written agreement with their employees that explicitly waives their work-for-hire interest in the copyright? I don't know. Go ask them. Look in the codebase yourself, or pay someone to do so. Chad ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as NetBSD!!!
On Feb 11, 2005, at 3:46 PM, Anthony Atkielski wrote: Joshua Tinnin writes: I don't think you understand the history of FreeBSD. Many people who work at Yahoo! are committers, and their employer not only knows about this but encourages it. That's not good enough. The employer has to assign its copyrights as well, or waive the usual work-for-hire arrangement that is implicit for employees writing code within the scope of their work. To what end? I'd hate to see FreeBSD become unavailable because of copyright issues. A lot of organizations are buried by this type of litigation. And frankly, the cavalier attitude about such serious questions that I sometimes see displayed does not reassure me. This is not the right place to ask such questions. If you are *seriously* concerned about this, and do not think that the FreeBSD core / foundation and their lawyers have not thought about this, then you should bring it up with them, and perhaps do a little leg work yourself and go through the codebase and make sure. Chad ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as NetBSD!!!
On Feb 11, 2005, at 3:51 PM, Anthony Atkielski wrote: Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC writes: You ask a dumb question, get such an answer. Be sure to tell the CIOs that. That'll do wonders for adoption of FreeBSD. CIOs don't hang out in public mailing lists asking such questions Chad You make assumptions that just because someone is paying someone to work on FreeBSD that no one has thought of the copyright implications. Because I know that it happens regularly. Geeks usually know nothing about copyright and think that they are above copyright law. The people running the FreeBSD project are smarter than that. Then they are also smarter than the people running Microsoft, IBM, Adobe, Apple, Sun, and many other multibillion-dollar companies, all of which have regular problems with copyright and patent law. The difference is that these large companies can afford to defend themselves in court (and even then they sometimes lose). And I am not your errand-boy. If you are seriously worried about this, then you need to make the investment necessary to clear your mind on the issue. Asking other people to do so is arrogant. I'm trying to keep people from shooting themselves in the feet. Why is there always such hostility towards this? -- Anthony ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as NetBSD!!!
On Feb 11, 2005, at 3:56 PM, Anthony Atkielski wrote: Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC writes: CIOs don't hang out in public mailing lists asking such questions But some of us hanging out on such lists have to answer these questions when talking to CIOs. And saying I don't know just doesn't wash. And the standard answer is RTFM In this case RTFC or RTFsomething We are not your errand boys. People in this list are not the ones to answer this question. Find the appropriate people and ask them. Start at www.freebsd.org ... Chad ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as NetBSD!!!
On Feb 11, 2005, at 4:14 PM, Anthony Atkielski wrote: Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC writes: And the standard answer is RTFM I don't know of anything in the manuals or on the Web site that answers this type of question. Typical. Cut out the rest of what I said. You need to ask the right people, not this list. To find out who the right people are, you should RTFM or in the case RTFWS Chad ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as
On Feb 11, 2005, at 5:34 PM, Robert Marella wrote: On Fri, 2005-02-11 at 18:25 -0500, Jerry McAllister wrote: athony atkielski =~ /tm452\d/ ? I was beginning to suspect some such. Maybe worse. jerry Jerry and Eric If I can remember correctly, I have received help from both of you on some of my previous posts. I thank you and I always enjoy reading your view points. This post is no exception but I happen to find Anthony's views on this subject both provocative and right on the money. Jerry and Eric were not talking about Anthony and his views on the logo issue when they wrote that. They were talking about his trolling posts about the codebase and its legality and demanding an answer in this forum instead of going to the people who could best answer him. I agree that Anthony is spot on with regards the logo. Chad ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SPAM: Score 3.3: Re: Instead of freebsd.com, why not...
On Feb 11, 2005, at 4:00 PM, Johnson David wrote: From: Anthony Atkielski [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Because FreeBSD is a server, not a desktop. Agree and disagree. While FreeBSD is well suited for the server, it's also well suited for the desktop. Anthony had the same misguided opinion in the Apache Users mailing list. That doesn't mean that we should be stressing the desktop to those shopping for servers, instead it means that we shouldn't be telling those shopping for desktops to go use Linux instead. How many business will be running Linux on the desktop but FreeBSD on the server? None! But you will find lots of people with FreeBSD on the Server and OS X on the desktop! Not to say that you cannot run a FreeBSD desktop. And any efforts to make that easier are applauded. I used to run Linux on the desktop[1] and FreeBSD on the server. Setting up Linux as a desktop at the time (1990-2000 timeframe) was so much easier. I don't know about now, but with Linux (SuSE is what I used back then) it was as easy as setting up Windows. Chad [1] and Windows 2000 :-( and Mac OS 8/9 and Rhapsody and the beta for OS X ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Instead of freebsd.com, why not...
On Feb 11, 2005, at 7:34 PM, Anthony Atkielski wrote: Kevin Kinsey writes: IIRC, this was the sort of thing that caused a few people to killfile your address a couple years back. The sort of teenage-boy attitude that causes some people to killfile others is one of the worst handicaps of the FreeBSD project. It is bad enough that I hesitate to clearly recommend FreeBSD for any type of serious use, simply because my reputation might suffer when anyone using the OS tries to actually talk to other users or persons involved with the project. Give me a break. (See below) A case in point is the ridiculous argument and name-calling I see here over Beastie. The kiddies are more worried about the fate of a cartoon character than about the operating system it represents. When so many people behave so petulantly over such trivial matters, it creates an overall perception of immaturity that scares off serious potential users of the OS. One has the impression of trying to calm a classroom full of first graders rather than discussing issues intelligently in a conference room with professional peers. I can say with absolute confidence that corporate decision makers who encounter this type of behavior will permanently write off FreeBSD within minutes of seeing it; and I can't say that I blame them, as no CEO or CIO can afford to bet millions of dollars on the capricious behavior of a bunch of junior-high kids. This is also ridiculous. No CEO or CIO is going to give a RAT's ASS about what is said in a mailing list about a particular product. If so, WIndows would have been dead years ago. (read some of the drivel posted in Windows mail lists). (On a related note: Balmer's big mouth hasn't killed Windows yet either). These mailing lists are not official mouthpieces of the FreeBSD project. If the FreeBSD projects website, official announcements, etc were like this, you'd have a case. But we are talking about a cross section of user's in unofficial channels. That does not mean a thing to these people. Chad ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Instead of freebsd.com, why not...
On Feb 11, 2005, at 7:54 PM, Anthony Atkielski wrote: On a related note: Balmer's big mouth hasn't killed Windows yet either. Only because Gates built the company up into a successful multinational with a lot of inertia before Balmer took the helm. But that big mouth is still a liability for the company. Fortunately for Microsoft, most of the competition is just as clueless (look at people like Larry Ellison or Steve Jobs, and Balmer almost starts to look wise). I am not a Steve lover, but lumping Jobs in there with Balmer and Ellison is not fair. Steve has a lot more respect than that and uses his bully-pulpit well. These mailing lists are not official mouthpieces of the FreeBSD project. Where _is_ the official mouthpiece? CIOs want to know. Whom do you call? Who commits? Who signs on the dotted line? Not knowing these things makes executives nervous, and they don't adopt products that make them nervous, even if they are free. Linux has the same problem. Linux does have the advantage that their are *commercial companies* that have evolved around it, so you can purchase support from Novell, Red Hat, etc if you want. FreeBSD unfortunately does not have that branch available. However, your same criticisms of FreeBSD support also apply to Linux and it has been doing pretty well. If the FreeBSD projects website, official announcements, etc were like this, you'd have a case. The Web site actually looks pretty amateurish compared to the competition. It screams shareware hobbyist rather than enterprise solutions center. Linux seems to be doing pretty good and look at www.kernel.org www.linux.org www.linux.com www.freebsd.org is not bad at all. It does not scream shareware/hobbyist. It is reasonable for a project like FreeBSD. FreeBSD is an open source community project. Linux has the same problems as FreeBSD. Now, I agree with you about a logo needing to be designed for FreeBSD. And there are probably pay-for-support companies that will help you with FreeBSD, and maybe they need to get more air time. But open source is catching on and FreeBSD doesn't suffer from anything that open source in general doesn't suffer from. Chad ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as
On Feb 11, 2005, at 8:17 PM, Robert Marella wrote: On Fri, 2005-02-11 at 18:11 -0700, Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC wrote: On Feb 11, 2005, at 5:34 PM, Robert Marella wrote: On Fri, 2005-02-11 at 18:25 -0500, Jerry McAllister wrote: athony atkielski =~ /tm452\d/ ? I was beginning to suspect some such. Maybe worse. jerry Jerry and Eric If I can remember correctly, I have received help from both of you on some of my previous posts. I thank you and I always enjoy reading your view points. This post is no exception but I happen to find Anthony's views on this subject both provocative and right on the money. Jerry and Eric were not talking about Anthony and his views on the logo issue when they wrote that. They were talking about his trolling posts about the codebase and its legality and demanding an answer in this forum instead of going to the people who could best answer him. I agree that Anthony is spot on with regards the logo. Chad Jerry and Eric did not include any of Anthony's post with the above comment. They tagged him as a troll or worse they put him in with TM-whatever. no, but they came after it (the codebase blabber) started, and not before, and long after Anthony had stopped posting about anything else. The context was clear (and has been confirmed by Eric at least). As far as the codebase question, he was not the one to bring it up. If I can read between his lines, I understand that when you go in front of the suits you can't tell them RTFM. You have to explain why FreeBSD is head and shoulders above the leader of the pack. No one told him to tell his suits to RTFM. We told him to RTFM because he was asking a question that was not applicable to the forum, and expecting others to do his grunt work of researching it. http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/ eresources.html#ERESOURCES-MAIL look at the List Summary for freebsd-questions. It is not a forum for legal questions, but for technical support and user questions (ie, questions that users may have on using FreeBSD) The Suits hold the purse strings. They read the newspaper. They see the advertisements. They hear the hype. They say, We were thinking of an MS solution. Why would we use FreeBSD? What is wrong with Linux as an alternative. Anthony's legal questions were a normal continuation of the flow of this thread. The question is not bad. It is the insistence that this forum, freebsd-questions mail list, is the place to get it and if he doesn't get an answer then the project is doomed. We were not condemning the question itself -- just the place and manner in which it was placed and the asinine conclusions drawn, ie, the project was doomed if this mail list could not come up with an answer -- an answer that he could search out as well as anyone else here. I stand by my statement. I happen to find Anthony's views on this subject both provocative and right on the money. you can stand anywhere you want, thanks. Doesn't make it right. Chad Robert ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SPAM: Score 3.3: Re: Instead of freebsd.com, why not...
On Feb 11, 2005, at 8:32 PM, Robert Marella wrote: On Sat, 2005-02-12 at 03:14 +0100, Matthias Buelow wrote: Johnson David wrote: Currently Windows rules the desktop world, even for diehard Unix shops. But that will not last forever. We need to start thinking about the desktop today. We need to stop the official discouragement of desktop FreeBSD. MacOS X is the Desktop BSD. It is available today, and it works better than anything else at being a desktop. Does it work on my intel hardware? Not in public it doesn't. That is irrelevant to the discussion. FreeBSD does not work on my PPC HW either. Chad ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as
On Feb 11, 2005, at 8:44 PM, Anthony Atkielski wrote: Robert Marella writes: As far as the codebase question, he was not the one to bring it up. If I can read between his lines, I understand that when you go in front of the suits you can't tell them RTFM. You have to explain why FreeBSD is head and shoulders above the leader of the pack. Yes. Things to remember if you must present FreeBSD to suits (not an exhaustive list): - You must provide sound arguments and/or hard data to support your suggestions. FreeBSD is just great! will not do. - You must provide costs. It's free won't do. Nothing is ever free. If you don't have costs, either you aren't being serious, or you haven't done your homework. - You cannot killfile anyone who asks questions that you don't like. - Calling the suits stupid because they refuse to unconditionally agree with you guarantees failure. Do not throw tantrums. - You must be confident, but not arrogant. Stick to your guns when you are discussing something that you know to be objectively true, but do not argue about opinions. - You must know exactly what point you wish to make to the suits, and you must stick to it. A long discussion of how much you love Beastie will not impress. - You need to leave documentation with them, including a copy of your presentation. - You need to explain how they will obtain support when something goes wrong. Nothing ever goes wrong! will not work. - You need to explain how FreeBSD will fit in with their IT strategy. It's up to you to research this; it is not up to them to figure it out. - Don't knock the competition unless you can objectively back up what you say (even then, be judicious). - Be prepared to address legal issues, such as licensing, patents, and copyrights. - If you say If you don't like it this way, go somewhere else, they will. This is all very well and good, but is irrelevant to the earlier discussion. You are not a Suit we are trying to impress or get to use FreeBSD. You are on a general technical support mailing list and behavior here is different than would be in a formal presentation or even official support mechanism. Chad ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SPAM: Score 3.3: Re: Instead of freebsd.com, why not...
On Feb 11, 2005, at 8:49 PM, Anthony Atkielski wrote: Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC writes: Not in public it doesn't. That is irrelevant to the discussion. FreeBSD does not work on my PPC HW either. Score: 12 out of 100. The meeting is over, and a security guard will show you the door. Try again. Dude, get a life. This is not a formal presentation to an IT department. This is an unofficial, freely used by all, who are all volunteers, mail list. I wish the security guard would show you to the door. Chad ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: jail manpage
On Feb 10, 2005, at 12:50 AM, r p wrote: On Wed, 9 Feb 2005 14:12:06 -0600, Josh Paetzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've been trying get jails working on my 5.3-RELEASE-p2 machine. I've tried following the instructions in man 8 jail D=/here/is/the/jail cd /usr/src mkdir -p $D make world DESTDIR=$D cd etc make distribution DESTDIR=$D mount_devfs devfs $D/dev cd $D ln -sf dev/null kernel It dies at make world DESTDIR=$D with the following error: cc -0 -pipe -I/usr/obj/usr/src/i386/legacy/usr/include c/usr/src/games/fortune/strfile/strfile.c make: don't know how to make /jail/test/usr/lib/libc.a. Stop ***Error code 2 Stopping /usr/src Hi, I had the same problem. Googling showd me to use the line env DESTDIR=$D make world instead of make world DESTDIR=$D. After I did this it all worked fine. Hmm, I will have to try that. I posted this same problem a few days ago. Never did get an answer, though I figured out a solution myself. This problem actually goes back to when 5.3 first came out. There was a problem and the fix got committed to the -STABLE branch but it appears it never got into the -RELEASE branch. I went to 5.3-RELEASE-p5 about a week ago and had a similar or same problem as the OP. My solution was to take the Makefile and Makefile.inc from the root of the source directory from a -STABLE src tree and stick them in my -RELEASE source tree. That allowed me to build fine and the jails work just fine. Of course, this is not the best solution. Chad ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as NetBSD!!!
On Feb 9, 2005, at 3:50 PM, Louis LeBlanc wrote: And in the past, I've only ever worn or used logos if they were for the Red Sox, the Patriots (and even those sparingly), or a free shirt. Hey, free is free, right? What, no Celtics? I will admit to having bought lots of Apple shirts and a Celtics shirt. The rest of my logos shirts are of the free sort I pick up at conferences and from vendors :-) As regards the thread topic. I think the poster who mentioned that a logo and a mascot are not necessarily the same. That is a valid point. I think it would be bad if Beastie were to disappear. But there is an advantage to having a more business like logo in addition to the mascot for those times when such things as Beastie might be imprudent. Chad ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: 99% CPU usage in System (Was: Re: vinum in 4.x poor performer?)
On Feb 9, 2005, at 6:34 PM, Marc G. Fournier wrote:
Most odd, there definitely has to be a problem with the Dual-Xeon
ysystem ... doing the same vmstat on my other vinum based system,
running more, but on a Dual-PIII shows major idle time:
# vmstat 5
procs memory pagedisks faults
cpu
r b w avmfre flt re pi po fr sr da0 da1 in sy cs
us sy id
20 1 0 4088636 219556 1664 1 2 1 3058 217 0 0 856 7937 2186
51 15 34
20 1 0 4115372 224220 472 0 0 0 2066 0 0 35 496 2915 745
7 7 86
10 1 0 4125252 221788 916 0 0 0 2513 0 2 71 798 4821 1538
6 11 83
9 1 0 36508 228452 534 0 0 2 2187 0 0 46 554 3384 1027
3 8 89
11 1 0 27672 218828 623 0 6 0 2337 0 0 61 583 2607 679
3 9 88
16 1 05776 220540 989 0 0 0 2393 0 9 32 514 3247 1115
3 8 90
Which leads me further to believe this is a Dual-Xeon problem, and
much further away from believing it has anything to do with software
RAID :(
I only use AMD, so I cannot provide specifics, but look in the BIOS at
boot time and see if there is anything strange looking in the settings.
Chad
On Wed, 9 Feb 2005, Marc G. Fournier wrote:
still getting this:
# vmstat 5
procs memory pagedisks faults
cpu
r b w avmfre flt re pi po fr sr da0 da1 in sy cs
us sy id
11 2 0 3020036 267944 505 2 1 1 680 62 0 0 515 4005 918
7 38 55
19 2 0 3004568 268672 242 0 0 0 277 0 0 3 338 2767 690
1 99 0
21 2 0 2999152 271240 135 0 0 0 306 0 6 9 363 1749 525
1 99 0
13 2 0 3001508 269692 87 0 0 0 24 0 3 3 302 1524 285
1 99 0
17 2 0 3025892 268612 98 0 1 0 66 0 5 6 312 1523 479
3 97 0
Is there a way of determining what is sucking up so much Sys time?
stuff like pperl scripts running and such would use 'user time', no?
I've got some high CPU processes running, but would expect them to be
shooting up the 'user time' ...
USER PID %CPU %MEM VSZ RSS TT STAT STARTED TIME
COMMAND
setiathome 21338 16.3 0.2 7888 7408 ?? RJ9:05PM 0:11.35
/usr/bin/perl -wT /usr/local/majordomo/bin/mj_queuerun -v 0
setiathome 21380 15.1 0.1 2988 2484 ?? RsJ 9:06PM 0:02.42
/usr/bin/perl -wT /usr/local/majordomo/bin/mj_enqueue -r -d
postgresql.org -l pgsql-sql -P10 -p10
setiathome 21384 15.5 0.1 2988 2484 ?? RsJ 9:06PM 0:02.31
/usr/bin/perl -wT /usr/local/majordomo/bin/mj_enqueue -r -d
postgresql.org -l pgsql-docs -P10 -p10
setiathome 21389 15.0 0.1 2720 2216 ?? RsJ 9:06PM 0:02.06
/usr/bin/perl -wT /usr/local/majordomo/bin/mj_enqueue -r -d
postgresql.org -l pgsql-hackers -P10 -p10
setiathome 21386 13.7 0.1 2720 2216 ?? RsJ 9:06PM 0:02.03
/usr/bin/perl -wT /usr/local/majordomo/bin/mj_enqueue -r -d
postgresql.org -l pgsql-ports -P10 -p10
setiathome 21387 13.2 0.1 2724 2220 ?? RsJ 9:06PM 0:01.92
/usr/bin/perl -wT /usr/local/majordomo/bin/mj_enqueue -r -d
postgresql.org -l pgsql-interfaces -P10 -p10
setiathome 21390 14.6 0.1 2724 2216 ?? RsJ 9:06PM 0:01.93
/usr/bin/perl -wT /usr/local/majordomo/bin/mj_enqueue -o -d
postgresql.org -l pgsql-performance -P10 -p10
setiathome 21330 12.0 0.2 8492 7852 ?? RJ9:05PM 0:15.55
/usr/bin/perl -wT /dev/fd/3//usr/local/www/mj/mj_wwwusr (perl5.8.5)
setiathome 7864 8.9 0.2 8912 8452 ?? RJ7:20PM 29:54.88
/usr/bin/perl -wT /usr/local/majordomo/bin/mj_trigger -t hourly
Is there some way of finding out where all the Sys Time is being
used? Something more fine grained them what vmstat/top shows?
On Wed, 9 Feb 2005, Loren M. Lang wrote:
On Wed, Feb 09, 2005 at 02:32:30AM -0400, Marc G. Fournier wrote:
Is there a command that I can run that provide me the syscall/sec
value,
that I could use in a script? I know vmstat reports it, but is
there an
easier way the having to parse the output? a perl module maybe, that
already does it?
vmstat shouldn't be too hard to parse, try the following:
vmstat|tail -1|awk '{print $15;}'
To print out the 15th field of vmstat. Now if you want vmstat to
keep
running every five seconds or something, it's a little more
complicated:
vmstat 5|grep -v 'procs\|avm'|awk '{print $15;}'
Thanks ...
On Wed, 9 Feb 2005, Marc G. Fournier wrote:
On Tue, 8 Feb 2005, Dan Nelson wrote:
Details on the array's performance, I think. Software RAID5 will
definitely have poor write performance (logging disks solve that
problem but vinum doesn't do that), but should have excellent read
rates. From this output, however:
systat -v output help:
4 usersLoad 4.64 5.58 5.77
Proc:r p d s wCsw Trp Sys Int Sof Flt
24 9282 949 8414* 678 349 8198
54.6%Sys 0.2%Intr 45.2%User 0.0%Nice 0.0%Idl
Disks da0 da1 da2 da3 da4 pass0 pass1
KB/t 5.32 9.50 12.52 16.00 9.00 0.00 0.00
tps 23 2 4 3 1 0 0
MB/s 0.12 0.01
Re: Electricity bill - OT
On Feb 8, 2005, at 4:19 AM, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC Sent: Monday, February 07, 2005 8:29 PM To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Electricity bill - OT A lot of new-built houses in the US are installing continuous circulation systems for hot water, which greatly reduces the time the HW heater is running, since when you turn on the hot water, you get instantaneous hot water and don't have to run a ton of water before it gets hot, which reduces the amount of HW wasted. This is a gimmick built to sell houses, a cool one, but only in hot climates does it make much difference. In cooler climates the heat from the standing water in the pipes just makes the furnace run less, thus the savings are a wash. That does not make sense. The savings is in running the hot water heater less. Houses that care about energy efficiency have the hot water pipes insulated anyway so it would not help in cooler climes. The goal is to run the hot water heater less, which you achieve when you constantly circulate the hot water through the hot water pipes, instead of letting it get cold and have to run a ton when you need a lot of water. Also, the new tankless HW heaters look interesting... those have been around for at least 20 years. As most of them are electric, not natural gas, your going to pay more money for heating water with a bunch of those than with a central gas water heater. The ones I have seen, the newer models, are GAS and are very efficient. Maybe you need to get out more? Chad ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: jail /dev
On Feb 8, 2005, at 8:32 AM, r p wrote: Hi, I've set up a jail and am getting confused about setting up the devices. The name of the jail is jail and it's directory is /usr/jail. I am using 5.3-Release. I have tried three methods, one that works, two that don't. At the moment what I'm doing is mount_devfs devfs /usr/jail/dev then going into the jail and deleting the devices that I (think) I don't need/shouldn't have available. This works, but brings up the problem that I don't know what devices I should leave in and which I shouldn't. I tried adding the line jail_jail_devfs_ruleset=4 along with other suggested lines relating to jails to /etc/rc.conf, but this resulted in an error message at bootup; WARNING: devfs_set_ruleset: you must specify a ruleset number. I am getting the number (4) from the /etc/defaults/devfs.rules file. I have the following in my jail startup script devfs_domount /local/2/hobbiton/dev devfsrules_jail devfs_set_ruleset devfsrules_jail /local/2/hobbiton/dev /sbin/devfs -m /local/2/hobbiton/dev rule -s 4 applyset I am not sure which one is working but one of them is :-) I will have to debug it some more and simplify this Chad ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
