Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS 1.2 installed on iMac (2011) - success but there are issues

[Ralf Quint]

On 11/11/2020 12:06 PM, Hollowone PL wrote:


My research will be mostly development and to test how I can switch 
from FreeDOS to long mode (64bit protected mode) but I cannot even use 
dev tools provided in packages as they often return DOS16/m exceptions 
and hang the computer out.


With this I have few starter question as a user:
- DOS16/m is a 16bit protected mode extender. Does it mean that 
FreeDOS runs in 16bit protected mode from the command line or perhaps 
some driver is interfering or rather the iMac I use has hardware that 
may cause some obvious incompatibilities.


I'm happy to dedicate some time for further testing and even debugging 
but I need some hints how to start. Will somebody here be available to 
assist me a bit with starter points?


Well, while doing some research for a totally different project, I came 
about some notes stating that there might be issues with some versions 
of SMM BIOS that allow to enable "legacy mode" to handle USB peripherals 
(keyboard, mouse), which could result in problems switching into "long 
mode". Could be that your HackinDOS machine as such issues that cause 
the errors/crashes you mentioned...


Ralf



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Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS 1.2 installed on iMac (2011) - success but there are issues

[Ralf Quint]

On 11/11/2020 12:06 PM, Hollowone PL wrote:

Hello everybody,

I just joined this newsletter and I hope the community, I had a few 
tries with FreeDOS but mostly in the VM and mostly for the use cases 
that DOSBOX handles much better.


None of these are related to my current deployment, which was hacking 
the UEFI boot manager that comes with Intel Mac on one of my old iMacs 
and installing both Windows (7) partition and FreeDOS to boot 
natively, no VM, just on the bare metal computer inside the aluminum box.


It works, I can boot into it. I can run lots of software and I rather 
installed it to try something new than to emulate SB and play old games.
Interesting, to say the least. Normally people try to run macOS on a 
regular PC to turn it into a "Hackintosh"...


My research will be mostly development and to test how I can switch 
from FreeDOS to long mode (64bit protected mode) but I cannot even use 
dev tools provided in packages as they often return DOS16/m exceptions 
and hang the computer out.


With this I have few starter question as a user:
- DOS16/m is a 16bit protected mode extender. Does it mean that 
FreeDOS runs in 16bit protected mode from the command line or perhaps 
some driver is interfering or rather the iMac I use has hardware that 
may cause some obvious incompatibilities.


Not sure where you saw that DOS Extender prompt, but no, FreeDOS is not 
running in protected mode (it would really be DOS if it would).


DOS Extenders are commonly exclusive to an application that links this 
DOS extender into the executable. Not knowing what exactly the 
application is that you tried to run, but it is quite conceivable that 
your "HackinDOS" Mac isn't quite compatible hardware wise in terms how 
you are trying to enter that 64bit protected mode. Best WAG is that a 
memory manager that you could have loaded (we have no info about your 
actual system startup setup) is interfering with that (as those need to 
switch into 16bit (or 32bit) protected mode at least temporarily to do 
their thing)...


Ralf


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[Freedos-user] DOS/16M

[Jose Senna]

 Randon Liegh said:
>I'm not sure what DOS16/m is -it sounds like a DPMI server? If so, then it 
>provides 32-bit addressing >to dos programs.

 AFA I remember, DOS/16M is a DOS extender to allow use of DOS in protected 
mode.
 It predates DPMI specification and is geared towards the 16-bit protected mode
 available in the '286.



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Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS 1.2 installed on iMac (2011) - success but there are issues

[Random Liegh via Freedos-user]

I'm not sure what DOS16/m is -it sounds like a DPMI server? If so, then 
it provides 32-bit addressing to dos programs.


Japeth (who created the hx extender) was working on a 64bit stub for DOS 
that you might be interested in? 
https://github.com/Baron-von-Riedesel/Dos64-stub


I don't know if he's on this list or not. I'm reasonably certain he's on 
Bttr: http://www.bttr-software.de/forum/ and may be able to give you 
some insight how to work with DOS and long mode and what may be causing 
the errors you're running into.


Good luck!

On 11/11/2020 11:06 AM, Hollowone PL wrote:

Hello everybody,

I just joined this newsletter and I hope the community, I had a few 
tries with FreeDOS but mostly in the VM and mostly for the use cases 
that DOSBOX handles much better.


None of these are related to my current deployment, which was hacking 
the UEFI boot manager that comes with Intel Mac on one of my old iMacs 
and installing both Windows (7) partition and FreeDOS to boot 
natively, no VM, just on the bare metal computer inside the aluminum box.


It works, I can boot into it. I can run lots of software and I rather 
installed it to try something new than to emulate SB and play old games.


My research will be mostly development and to test how I can switch 
from FreeDOS to long mode (64bit protected mode) but I cannot even use 
dev tools provided in packages as they often return DOS16/m exceptions 
and hang the computer out.


With this I have few starter question as a user:
- DOS16/m is a 16bit protected mode extender. Does it mean that 
FreeDOS runs in 16bit protected mode from the command line or perhaps 
some driver is interfering or rather the iMac I use has hardware that 
may cause some obvious incompatibilities.


I'm happy to dedicate some time for further testing and even debugging 
but I need some hints how to start. Will somebody here be available to 
assist me a bit with starter points?




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[Freedos-user] FreeDOS 1.2 installed on iMac (2011) - success but there are issues

[Hollowone PL]

Hello everybody,

I just joined this newsletter and I hope the community, I had a few tries
with FreeDOS but mostly in the VM and mostly for the use cases that DOSBOX
handles much better.

None of these are related to my current deployment, which was hacking the
UEFI boot manager that comes with Intel Mac on one of my old iMacs and
installing both Windows (7) partition and FreeDOS to boot natively, no VM,
just on the bare metal computer inside the aluminum box.

It works, I can boot into it. I can run lots of software and I rather
installed it to try something new than to emulate SB and play old games.

My research will be mostly development and to test how I can switch from
FreeDOS to long mode (64bit protected mode) but I cannot even use dev tools
provided in packages as they often return DOS16/m exceptions and hang the
computer out.

With this I have few starter question as a user:
- DOS16/m is a 16bit protected mode extender. Does it mean that FreeDOS
runs in 16bit protected mode from the command line or perhaps some driver
is interfering or rather the iMac I use has hardware that may cause some
obvious incompatibilities.

I'm happy to dedicate some time for further testing and even debugging but
I need some hints how to start. Will somebody here be available to assist
me a bit with starter points?
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Re: [Freedos-user] PCI Express Network Adapter Board for FreeDos

[Ralf Quint]

On 11/11/2020 9:10 AM, Marv wrote:
Ralf - I gave up on that motherboard with the onboard PCIe Realtek 
network adapter and picked up a circa 1999 Intel Pentium II machine 
with (2) Adaptec ANA-6911 PCI network adapter boards. I'm pretty sure 
I found the right NDIS drivers for them. It also has a spare ISA slot, 
so I have that option, too. I'm hoping to install FreeDos on it later 
today.

Well, that sounds a bit like "from fire into the pan"... ;-)

Would have to take a look at what those cards actually are to see what 
kind of driver they would use.


One thing that should generally be kept in mind is that DOS (any DOS) 
predates the widespread use of (TCP)IP networking. In it's "networking 
heydays", DOS machines were usually networking using other protocols 
(and hardware infrastructure!) like IPX, SPX and a lot more proprietary 
protocols. IP networking didn't really become a thing until the early 
'90s, and by that time, Windows had take over and pretty much all 
hardware manufacturers saw DOS driver support (not only for NICs!) just 
as an after thought.


So usually pre 2000 NICs are fairly well supported and should be the 
first choice when using both real iron or a VM. NE2000, 3C905, RTL8129, 
RTL8139, those are commonly among the well supported cards.


Anything pretty much made past 2000, it becomes a real hit and miss, 
first because manufacture tried to take advantage of the much higher CPU 
power to offload some of the workload from their hardware and implement 
at least some functionality in software (the infamous "WinModems", but 
also NICs, disk controllers,...), while much newer products try to 
utilize technologies that in general not "real mode DOS" friendly 
anymore, like PCIe and other fluff. Even USB is basically a royal pain 
in the posterior...


Ralf



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Re: [Freedos-user] Possible zoom metting?

[Jim Hall]

On Wed, Nov 11, 2020 at 11:18 AM dmccunney 
wrote:

> On Sat, Nov 7, 2020 at 5:39 PM  wrote:
> >
> > Are you guys planning another Zoom meeting?  Depending on the time and
> day, I might be able to join in also, but, I seem to have lost the original
> mail about it.
>
> Please note that the previous gatherings have *not* been *Zoom*
> meetings.  Jim uses a different online meeting package he uses in his
> consulting work.
>
>
Yes, it's BlueJeans . But I figure these days,
"zoom" is shorthand for "online meeting."

In any case, when I set up the video meeting, you'll be able to join
directly from your browser - or you can download the BlueJeans client
 and use that. FWIW, I usually join
from my browser, and that works fine.

Jim
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Re: [Freedos-user] PCI Express Network Adapter Board for FreeDos

[ZB]

Maybe "generic" NE2000 packet driver will do (I mean FreeDOS)?

Something like this:

 
https://dos.retro.software/downloads/download/300-ne2000-compatible-nic-drivers/1470-ne2000-packet-driver

-- 
regards,
Zbigniew


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Re: [Freedos-user] Possible zoom metting?

[dmccunney]

On Sat, Nov 7, 2020 at 5:39 PM  wrote:
>
> Are you guys planning another Zoom meeting?  Depending on the time and day, I 
> might be able to join in also, but, I seem to have lost the original mail 
> about it.

Please note that the previous gatherings have *not* been *Zoom*
meetings.  Jim uses a different online meeting package he uses in his
consulting work.

Zoom is the most popular current package, but there are a variety of
others like WebEx and MS Teams, and all concerned are busily trying to
acquire market share as virtual meetings and in many instances the new
normal.
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Re: [Freedos-user] PCI Express Network Adapter Board for FreeDos

[Marv]

Ralf - I gave up on that motherboard with the onboard PCIe Realtek network
adapter and picked up a circa 1999 Intel Pentium II machine with (2)
Adaptec ANA-6911 PCI network adapter boards. I'm pretty sure I found the
right NDIS drivers for them. It also has a spare ISA slot, so I have that
option, too. I'm hoping to install FreeDos on it later today.


On Wed, Nov 11, 2020 at 11:50 AM Ralf Quint  wrote:

> On 11/9/2020 7:35 AM, Marv wrote:
>
>
> I assume rtl8139 is a generic virtual driver and is the only choice for a
> virtual Realtek adapter. My actual network adapter identifies as a
> rtl8111/8168B. but says 8111GR on the chip. I realize my virtual
> installation isn't going to use my physical network board.
>
> Can anyone give me some direction on this?
>
> Well, at this point in time, unfortunately not really.
>
> Just one note, a RTL8139 is a real hardware based 100MBit NIC chip, while
> the RTL8111 is one of those "hybrid" hardware/software chips. So a 8139
> driver certainly will NOT work on an 8111. Don't recall right now what
> exactly a 8168, my guess is that if it is mentioned together with the 8111
> in that driver that you tried, it is a dumbified RTL8169, which is a
> hardware based chip.
>
> Realtek unfortunately seemed to have "cleaned up" their download sections
> and removed anything pre-Windows 7. They are also only the (fab-less)
> manufacturer of the actual NIC chips, they do not make any actual NIC
> boards (or any motherboards for that matter). So a chance trying to find
> any Realtek driver for DOS might be better done by roaming the actual board
> manufacturers sites, as they might still have access to Realtek's
> "internal/OEM" software library.
>
> Ralf
>
>
> 
>  Virus-free.
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Re: [Freedos-user] PCI Express Network Adapter Board for FreeDos

[Ralf Quint]

On 11/9/2020 7:35 AM, Marv wrote:


I assume rtl8139 is a generic virtual driver and is the only choice 
for a virtual Realtek adapter. My actual network adapter identifies as 
a rtl8111/8168B. but says 8111GR on the chip. I realize my virtual 
installation isn't going to use my physical network board.


Can anyone give me some direction on this?


Well, at this point in time, unfortunately not really.

Just one note, a RTL8139 is a real hardware based 100MBit NIC chip, 
while the RTL8111 is one of those "hybrid" hardware/software chips. So a 
8139 driver certainly will NOT work on an 8111. Don't recall right now 
what exactly a 8168, my guess is that if it is mentioned together with 
the 8111 in that driver that you tried, it is a dumbified RTL8169, which 
is a hardware based chip.


Realtek unfortunately seemed to have "cleaned up" their download 
sections and removed anything pre-Windows 7. They are also only the 
(fab-less) manufacturer of the actual NIC chips, they do not make any 
actual NIC boards (or any motherboards for that matter). So a chance 
trying to find any Realtek driver for DOS might be better done by 
roaming the actual board manufacturers sites, as they might still have 
access to Realtek's "internal/OEM" software library.


Ralf



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Re: [Freedos-user] Possible zoom metting?

[Ralf Quint]

On 11/7/2020 6:23 PM, Bryan Kilgallin wrote:

Horrors, Jim:

The get-together in late June was 9am US/Central, and the one in 
mid-August was 11am US/Central. That seemed to work well.

That's 4 AM in Canberra! I'd rather sleep.


Well, that's a general problem of having people literally all over the 
world.


Yes, 9am CST is even a bit early for me (I am on Pacific Time, 
California), but then normal day time hours in Canberra might be in the 
middle of the night for people on the US East Coast or those in Europe. 
So it is really hard to please everyone...


Ralf


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