date:20131001

First, he agreed that there was clear climate change, that's simply a
matter of record keeping.

Second: he could not then discern clear research that it was due to
pollution.

Thus I'd guess he'd say, Good more research is a good thing!

.. And he'd stick with the difficulty of experiment, but would as he did
then, wish to decrease pollution.


   -- Owen


On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 8:19 PM, Nick Thompson
nickthomp...@earthlink.netwrote:

 Owen, 

 ** **

 What do you think paleo guy would say after reading the new report?  

 ** **

 N

 ** **

 Nicholas S. Thompson

 Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

 Clark University

 http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

 ** **

 *From:* Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Saul
 Caganoff
 *Sent:* Monday, September 30, 2013 7:08 PM
 *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
 *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Dr. Jeff Masters' WunderBlog : Landmark 2013 IPCC
 Report: 95% Chance Most of Global Warming is Human-Caused | Weather
 Underground

 ** **

 Indeed. What if it's a big hoax and we create a better world for nothing?*
 ***

 ** **

 http://blog.leyerle.com/2010/08/what-if-climate-change-is-big-hoax.html***
 *

 ** **

 Saul

 ** **

 On 1 October 2013 03:09, Owen Densmore o...@backspaces.net wrote:

 I met a paleoclimatologist at SFI years ago, and a couple of us discussed
 global warming with him.

 ** **

 He had a reasonable attitude: We are, paleologically speaking, at a cool
 period of climate, and the science of global warming is pretty difficult
 without experiments :)  He went on to say, however, that prudence is a good
 reason to stop polluting.

 ** **

 ** **

-- Owen

 ** **

 On Sun, Sep 29, 2013 at 9:40 PM, Nick Thompson nickthomp...@earthlink.net
 wrote:

 http://www.wunderground.com/blog/JeffMasters/comment.html?entrynum=2535 **
 **

 I would love it if we could discuss this in some sort of rational way this
 Friday.  

  

 N


 
 FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
 Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
 to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

 ** **


 
 FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
 Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
 to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com



 

 ** **

 --
 Saul Caganoff
 Enterprise IT Architect
 Mobile: +61 410 430 809
 LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/scaganoff 

 
 FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
 Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
 to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com


FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

Re: [FRIAM] Government Shutdown


Russ Abbott wrote at 10/01/2013 08:51 AM:

What happened is that the Republicans are refusing to allocate money to
fund the government unless the health-care law is excluded. They are
willing to shut down the entire government as a way to stop a program that
was lawfully enacted.  It's a backdoor way to win a fight they already
lost. In effect they are holding the government hostage to demands that
have been rejected by the normal political process.


Well, I believe I'm as pissed off at the Moron wing of the Republicans as 
anyone.  Their shutdown of the NIH today has cost me something like $2.5k 
(wasted time spent prepping for a cancelled meeting, non-refundable hotel, 
etc.).

But, to be fair, it seems they're using the power of the purse to 
check/balance the other half of congress and the executive.  In this case, I'm a victim.  
So, it pisses me off.  But back under W, I _wished_ they would use the power of the purse 
to resist funding a few things.  So, after taking a deep breath and thinking about how 
our (seemingly) dysfunctional government functions, I can't be entirely negative.

BTW, I took a look at http://coveroregon.com this morning and it is quite cool 
to be able to compare the insurance organizations I know with ones I've never 
heard of.  And, so far _all_ of the plans are much cheaper than what my (small 
business) was paying 2 years ago for similar coverage.

--
⇒⇐ glen e. p. ropella
I've seen the stars disappear in the sun
 



FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

Re: [FRIAM] Dr. Jeff Masters' WunderBlog : Landmark 2013 IPCC Report: 95% Chance Most of Global Warming is Human-Caused | Weather Underground

Here's a new thought: What is more important .. the increase in civilian
deaths in jihadist warfare or the number of deaths being caused by climate
change?

This comes from Papa Francesco's impatient sighs about the west's focus on
trivialities like gays and women in the church, contraception, abortion and
so on when grinding poverty, death by pollution and warfare, inability to
negotiate/live in peace, AIDs and so on.

The west is as children, not adults. The southern hemisphere really has a
completely different take on What's Important.

The tough question for us is: Just how important is climate change? Is it
more important than warfare? I think about that, as a catholic/christian
because I now live in the era of greatest martyrdom in the history of
christianity. Ditto martyrdom amongst islam.

So as much as I abhor the arrogant pollution of our planet, I have now
started to think of the whole world's problems. And I can't say what is
the most important, at this point. But I'm working on it!

I'll take a page from Doug: I think AssHoles are the true problem.

-- Owen

On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 9:29 AM, Nick Thompson nickthomp...@earthlink.netwrote:

Thank you for this, Robert.

** **

It was just the sort of New Thought I was looking for.

** **

Nick

** **

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

** **

*From:* Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Robert
Holmes
*Sent:* Tuesday, October 01, 2013 7:07 AM

*To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
*Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Dr. Jeff Masters' WunderBlog : Landmark 2013 IPCC
Report: 95% Chance Most of Global Warming is Human-Caused | Weather
Underground

** **

Here's an interesting take on the issue. What do insurance companies think
about climate change?

** **

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/15/business/insurers-stray-from-the-conservative-line-on-climate-change.html

** **

On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 8:19 PM, Nick Thompson nickthomp...@earthlink.net
wrote:

Owen,

What do you think paleo guy would say after reading the new report?

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

*From:* Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Saul
Caganoff
*Sent:* Monday, September 30, 2013 7:08 PM
*To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
*Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Dr. Jeff Masters' WunderBlog : Landmark 2013 IPCC
Report: 95% Chance Most of Global Warming is Human-Caused | Weather
Underground

Indeed. What if it's a big hoax and we create a better world for nothing?*
***

http://blog.leyerle.com/2010/08/what-if-climate-change-is-big-hoax.html***
*

Saul

On 1 October 2013 03:09, Owen Densmore o...@backspaces.net wrote:

I met a paleoclimatologist at SFI years ago, and a couple of us discussed
global warming with him.

He had a reasonable attitude: We are, paleologically speaking, at a cool
period of climate, and the science of global warming is pretty difficult
without experiments :) He went on to say, however, that prudence is a good
reason to stop polluting.

-- Owen

On Sun, Sep 29, 2013 at 9:40 PM, Nick Thompson nickthomp...@earthlink.net
wrote:

http://www.wunderground.com/blog/JeffMasters/comment.html?entrynum=2535 **
**

I would love it if we could discuss this in some sort of rational way this
Friday.

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

--
Saul Caganoff
Enterprise IT Architect
Mobile: +61 410 430 809
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/scaganoff

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

** **

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College

Re: [FRIAM] Government Shutdown

2013-10-01 Thread Jochen Fromm

NIH and NASA are shut down, while NSA is up. Science is the first victim. 

-J.

Sent from Android
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

Re: [FRIAM] Dr. Jeff Masters' WunderBlog : Landmark 2013 IPCC Report: 95% Chance Most of Global Warming is Human-Caused | Weather Underground


Owen Densmore wrote at 10/01/2013 10:10 AM:

I'll take a page from Doug: I think AssHoles are the true problem.


And, of course, you're using asshole as a synonym for human.

--
⇒⇐ glen e. p. ropella
Neolithic fear is such a motivating factory.
 



FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

[FRIAM] Fwd: Oct 3: Join the ISO for Mobile Device Security Day

2013-10-01 Thread George Duncan

George Duncan
georgeduncanart.com
(505) 983-6895
Represented by ViVO Contemporary
725 Canyon Road
Santa Fe, NM 87501

Dynamic application of matrix order and luminous chaos.


-- Forwarded message --
From: Information Security Office i...@andrew.cmu.edu
Date: Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 11:25 AM
Subject: Oct 3: Join the ISO for Mobile Device Security Day
To: g...@andrew.cmu.edu


 *** To verify the authenticity of this message, visit Computing Services
News at http://www.cmu.edu/iso/events/iso-news/NCSAM2013-staff.html ***



*Dear Faculty and Staff,*

October is National Cybersecurity Awareness Month (NCSAM).  This year’s
theme is Mobile Device Security.

Mobile device security is just as important as traditional computer
security.  For the first time in history, the majority of Americans own a
smartphone (56% per the Pew Research Center).  Cybercriminals are now
targeting these devices to steal data and commit fraud.  In some cases,
malware takes control of the device until the owner pays a ransom. Beyond
personal availability and privacy concerns, a poorly secured mobile device
that accesses CMU resources can place institutional data at risk.

On October 3, 2013 from 11:00 a.m. – 5:00 p.m., the Information Security
Office (ISO) is hosting a mobile device security event in the Rangos
Ballroom.  Vendors, researchers, the ISO, and others will be on hand to
demo the security features of mobile devices, report findings, and offer
tips to secure your mobile devices.   Please join us.  For more information
visit https://www.cmu.edu/iso/aware/ncsam/index.html

In the meantime, check out the ISO’s mobile device security guidelines and
the FCC’s Ten Steps to Smartphone Security.

http://www.cmu.edu/iso/governance/guidelines/mobile-device.html

http://www.fcc.gov/sites/default/files/smartphone_master_document.pdf

Thank you for the part you play in keeping Carnegie Mellon’s data and
information systems secure and have a wonderful October!

Sincerely,
Mary Ann BlairDirector of Information SecurityInformation Security
OfficeComputing
ServicesCarnegie Mellon Universityhttps://www.cmu.edu/isoISO Hotline:
412-268-2044

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

Re: [FRIAM] Government Shutdown

2013-10-01 Thread Roger Critchlow

This was fun:
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/comment/2013/09/meadows-boehner-defund-obamacare-suicide-caucus-geography.html

Where the suicide caucus lives, republican congressmen and mitt romney won
last fall with double digit margins, the population is  80% white, and
there's not a chance in hell of those gerrymandered districts going any
other way for quite a while.  They aren't the majority of the GOP, but
they're essential to maintaining the GOP majority in congress, so they, 79
white men and 1 white woman, blackmail the rest of the GOP, the GOP
blackmails the rest of the government, and Glen gets to eat his
non-refundable travel expenses.  So it goes.

I actually don't think that Steve Pearce's district in southern new mexico
is really that white, but they do have a lot of republican latinos down
that way.

This
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/09/24/how-did-conservatives-get-this-radical/
was
also interesting,

James Sidanius, a professor of psychology at Harvard, working from a
liberal perspective, uses a
measurehttp://dash.harvard.edu/bitstream/handle/1/3207711/Sidanius_SocialDominanceOrientation.pdf?sequence=1
he
calls “Social Dominance Orientation” to
describehttp://dash.harvard.edu/bitstream/handle/1/3207711/Sidanius_SocialDominanceOrientation.pdf?sequence=1
“the
extent to which one desires that one’s in-group dominate and be superior to
out-groups.”


-- rec --


On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 11:20 AM, Jochen Fromm j...@cas-group.net wrote:

 NIH and NASA are shut down, while NSA is up. Science is the first victim.

 -J.

 Sent from Android

 
 FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
 Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
 to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com


FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

Re: [FRIAM] Government Shutdown

I am amused:
Sith work together better. My nephiews get along better. But a room a grown
adults
Hmmm

Where's Darth Sidius and or Emperor palpatine when you need them?


On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 12:01 AM, Patrick Reilly 
patrick.rei...@ipsociety.net wrote:

 We've become Italy en route to landing as Indonesia.

 On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 10:58 PM, Jochen Fromm j...@cas-group.net wrote:
  What happened? Is America bankrupt? Insolvent? How could this happen?
 
  -J.
 
 
  Sent from Android
 
  
  FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
  Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
  to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com



 --
 The information contained in this transmission may contain privileged
 and confidential information.  It is intended only for the use of the
 person(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient,  you are
 hereby notified that any review, dissemination, distribution or
 duplication of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you are
 not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email
 and destroy all copies of the original message. To reply to our email
 administrator directly, please send an email to
 patrick.rei...@ipsociety.net.

 
 FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
 Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
 to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com


FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

Re: [FRIAM] Dr. Jeff Masters' WunderBlog : Landmark 2013 IPCC Report: 95% Chance Most of Global Warming is Human-Caused | Weather Underground

Yup, I guess we're all asses in one area or another.  I loved the interview
with the pope where he was asked Who are you.  In church speak, he said
I'm an ass.

   -- Owen


On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 11:47 AM, glen g...@ropella.name wrote:

 Owen Densmore wrote at 10/01/2013 10:10 AM:

  I'll take a page from Doug: I think AssHoles are the true problem.


 And, of course, you're using asshole as a synonym for human.

 --
 == glen e. p. ropella
 Neolithic fear is such a motivating factory.


 ==**==
 FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
 Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
 to unsubscribe 
 http://redfish.com/mailman/**listinfo/friam_redfish.comhttp://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com


FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

Re: [FRIAM] Government Shutdown

I still blame the potential zombie apocalypse and the presence of Sith on
this one :P

(For those that don't know Sith are the zelouse force users in the Star
Wars universe, with it being common to come up with over the top plots)


On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 12:14 PM, Roger Critchlow r...@elf.org wrote:

 This was fun:
 http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/comment/2013/09/meadows-boehner-defund-obamacare-suicide-caucus-geography.html

 Where the suicide caucus lives, republican congressmen and mitt romney won
 last fall with double digit margins, the population is  80% white, and
 there's not a chance in hell of those gerrymandered districts going any
 other way for quite a while.  They aren't the majority of the GOP, but
 they're essential to maintaining the GOP majority in congress, so they, 79
 white men and 1 white woman, blackmail the rest of the GOP, the GOP
 blackmails the rest of the government, and Glen gets to eat his
 non-refundable travel expenses.  So it goes.

 I actually don't think that Steve Pearce's district in southern new mexico
 is really that white, but they do have a lot of republican latinos down
 that way.

 This
 http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/09/24/how-did-conservatives-get-this-radical/
  was
 also interesting,

 James Sidanius, a professor of psychology at Harvard, working from a
 liberal perspective, uses a 
 measurehttp://dash.harvard.edu/bitstream/handle/1/3207711/Sidanius_SocialDominanceOrientation.pdf?sequence=1
  he
 calls “Social Dominance Orientation” to 
 describehttp://dash.harvard.edu/bitstream/handle/1/3207711/Sidanius_SocialDominanceOrientation.pdf?sequence=1
  “the
 extent to which one desires that one’s in-group dominate and be superior to
 out-groups.”


 -- rec --


 On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 11:20 AM, Jochen Fromm j...@cas-group.net wrote:

 NIH and NASA are shut down, while NSA is up. Science is the first victim.

 -J.

 Sent from Android

 
 FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
 Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
 to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com



 
 FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
 Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
 to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com


FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

Re: [FRIAM] Government Shutdown

Sounds like a Ponzi scheme: over the top multiplying of leverage.

   -- Owen


On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 12:32 PM, Gillian Densmore gil.densm...@gmail.comwrote:

 I still blame the potential zombie apocalypse and the presence of Sith on
 this one :P

 (For those that don't know Sith are the zelouse force users in the Star
 Wars universe, with it being common to come up with over the top plots)


 On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 12:14 PM, Roger Critchlow r...@elf.org wrote:

 This was fun:
 http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/comment/2013/09/meadows-boehner-defund-obamacare-suicide-caucus-geography.html

 Where the suicide caucus lives, republican congressmen and mitt romney
 won last fall with double digit margins, the population is  80% white, and
 there's not a chance in hell of those gerrymandered districts going any
 other way for quite a while.  They aren't the majority of the GOP, but
 they're essential to maintaining the GOP majority in congress, so they, 79
 white men and 1 white woman, blackmail the rest of the GOP, the GOP
 blackmails the rest of the government, and Glen gets to eat his
 non-refundable travel expenses.  So it goes.

 I actually don't think that Steve Pearce's district in southern new
 mexico is really that white, but they do have a lot of republican latinos
 down that way.

 This
 http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/09/24/how-did-conservatives-get-this-radical/
  was
 also interesting,

 James Sidanius, a professor of psychology at Harvard, working from a
 liberal perspective, uses a 
 measurehttp://dash.harvard.edu/bitstream/handle/1/3207711/Sidanius_SocialDominanceOrientation.pdf?sequence=1
  he
 calls “Social Dominance Orientation” to 
 describehttp://dash.harvard.edu/bitstream/handle/1/3207711/Sidanius_SocialDominanceOrientation.pdf?sequence=1
  “the
 extent to which one desires that one’s in-group dominate and be superior to
 out-groups.”


 -- rec --


 On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 11:20 AM, Jochen Fromm j...@cas-group.net wrote:

 NIH and NASA are shut down, while NSA is up. Science is the first
 victim.

 -J.

 Sent from Android

 
 FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
 Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
 to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com



 
 FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
 Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
 to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com



 
 FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
 Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
 to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com


FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

Re: [FRIAM] Government Shutdown

2013-10-01 Thread Jochen Fromm


Just saw this tweet:
America was not shut down properly. Would you like to start America in 
safe mode, with free healthcare and without the guns? (Recommended)

https://twitter.com/cshallwriter/status/384935341318103041

-J.

On 10/01/2013 08:14 PM, Gillian Densmore wrote:

I am amused:
Sith work together better. My nephiews get along better. But a room a 
grown adults

Hmmm

Where's Darth Sidius and or Emperor palpatine when you need them?


On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 12:01 AM, Patrick Reilly 
patrick.rei...@ipsociety.net mailto:patrick.rei...@ipsociety.net 
wrote:


We've become Italy en route to landing as Indonesia.

On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 10:58 PM, Jochen Fromm j...@cas-group.net
mailto:j...@cas-group.net wrote:
 What happened? Is America bankrupt? Insolvent? How could this
happen?

 -J.


 Sent from Android

 
 FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
 Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
 to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com



--
The information contained in this transmission may contain privileged
and confidential information.  It is intended only for the use of the
person(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient,  you are
hereby notified that any review, dissemination, distribution or
duplication of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you are
not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email
and destroy all copies of the original message. To reply to our email
administrator directly, please send an email to
patrick.rei...@ipsociety.net mailto:patrick.rei...@ipsociety.net.


FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com





FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com



FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

Re: [FRIAM] Government Shutdown


Marcus G. Daniels wrote at 10/01/2013 11:55 AM:

And if they do harm to the full faith and credit of the country, I hope the 
White House will involve some `creative' Washington lawyers to deal with them.


Yep.  That is the job of the executive.  I don't hope for it, I expect it.  
What I _hope_ for is that the republicans can bring a little order to their own 
house.  The only thing worse than having a Moron wing of that party would be 
the lack of any 2nd party at all.  Yog knows the Libertarians and the Greens 
can't play the role.

--
⇒⇐ glen e. p. ropella
The power of the Holy Ghost comes to town
 



FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

Re: [FRIAM] Government Shutdown

2013-10-01 Thread cody dooderson

Heres a Haiku. Maybe can come up with something better

government shutdown.
do senators not get sick?
then i blame the poor

Cody Smith


On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 12:32 PM, Gillian Densmore gil.densm...@gmail.comwrote:

 I still blame the potential zombie apocalypse and the presence of Sith on
 this one :P

 (For those that don't know Sith are the zelouse force users in the Star
 Wars universe, with it being common to come up with over the top plots)


 On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 12:14 PM, Roger Critchlow r...@elf.org wrote:

 This was fun:
 http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/comment/2013/09/meadows-boehner-defund-obamacare-suicide-caucus-geography.html

 Where the suicide caucus lives, republican congressmen and mitt romney
 won last fall with double digit margins, the population is  80% white, and
 there's not a chance in hell of those gerrymandered districts going any
 other way for quite a while.  They aren't the majority of the GOP, but
 they're essential to maintaining the GOP majority in congress, so they, 79
 white men and 1 white woman, blackmail the rest of the GOP, the GOP
 blackmails the rest of the government, and Glen gets to eat his
 non-refundable travel expenses.  So it goes.

 I actually don't think that Steve Pearce's district in southern new
 mexico is really that white, but they do have a lot of republican latinos
 down that way.

 This
 http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/09/24/how-did-conservatives-get-this-radical/
  was
 also interesting,

 James Sidanius, a professor of psychology at Harvard, working from a
 liberal perspective, uses a 
 measurehttp://dash.harvard.edu/bitstream/handle/1/3207711/Sidanius_SocialDominanceOrientation.pdf?sequence=1
  he
 calls “Social Dominance Orientation” to 
 describehttp://dash.harvard.edu/bitstream/handle/1/3207711/Sidanius_SocialDominanceOrientation.pdf?sequence=1
  “the
 extent to which one desires that one’s in-group dominate and be superior to
 out-groups.”


 -- rec --


 On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 11:20 AM, Jochen Fromm j...@cas-group.net wrote:

 NIH and NASA are shut down, while NSA is up. Science is the first
 victim.

 -J.

 Sent from Android

 
 FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
 Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
 to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com



 
 FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
 Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
 to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com



 
 FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
 Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
 to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com


FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

Re: [FRIAM] Government Shutdown

Hmm a pragmatic question:
If the people that don't want resolution are on strike how do we lobby
obama just to fire them, and then hire new workers?
He might have to use a executive order.
Might also be a good time to lobby for just a whole other system, as the
one we have now doesn't seem to work well.
Or do we say screw it and beg canada and the EU to purchase the US?


On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 1:08 PM, glen g...@ropella.name wrote:

 Marcus G. Daniels wrote at 10/01/2013 11:55 AM:

  And if they do harm to the full faith and credit of the country, I hope
 the White House will involve some `creative' Washington lawyers to deal
 with them.


 Yep.  That is the job of the executive.  I don't hope for it, I expect it.
  What I _hope_ for is that the republicans can bring a little order to
 their own house.  The only thing worse than having a Moron wing of that
 party would be the lack of any 2nd party at all.  Yog knows the
 Libertarians and the Greens can't play the role.


 --
 == glen e. p. ropella
 The power of the Holy Ghost comes to town


 ==**==
 FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
 Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
 to unsubscribe 
 http://redfish.com/mailman/**listinfo/friam_redfish.comhttp://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com


FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

Re: [FRIAM] Government Shutdown


Dood -

Heres a Haiku. Maybe can come up with something better

government shutdown.
do senators not get sick?
then i blame the poor


Cody the Doodson
Reincarnated Basho
Nailed it first go!


FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

Re: [FRIAM] Government Shutdown


Gillian Densmore wrote at 10/01/2013 01:15 PM:

If the people that don't want resolution are on strike how do we lobby
obama just to fire them, and then hire new workers?


I don't really understand the question.  We're talking about indictments (or 
more subtle methods) against those (e.g. Ted Cruz) who damage our national 
security and/or our ability to meet our fiduciary responsibilities.  There's no 
firing, hiring, or striking involved.

--
⇒⇐ glen e. p. ropella
Gather all around the young ones
 



FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

Re: [FRIAM] Government Shutdown

Unless I responded to the wrong thread- Or used a poor anology-
It's my understanding that because some people don't want nationalised
health care and there was budget coming due they decided to not work and
shutdown the government.
So my question is: as such can Obama not replace the people that forced the
closure?


On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 3:02 PM, glen g...@ropella.name wrote:

 Gillian Densmore wrote at 10/01/2013 01:15 PM:

  If the people that don't want resolution are on strike how do we lobby
 obama just to fire them, and then hire new workers?


 I don't really understand the question.  We're talking about indictments
 (or more subtle methods) against those (e.g. Ted Cruz) who damage our
 national security and/or our ability to meet our fiduciary
 responsibilities.  There's no firing, hiring, or striking involved.


 --
 == glen e. p. ropella
 Gather all around the young ones


 ==**==
 FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
 Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
 to unsubscribe 
 http://redfish.com/mailman/**listinfo/friam_redfish.comhttp://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com


FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

Re: [FRIAM] Government Shutdown


Gillian Densmore wrote at 10/01/2013 02:18 PM:

So my question is: as such can Obama not replace the people that forced the
closure?


No, not directly.  They're elected by their various districts.  He can 
definitely apply lots of pressure he (seems to) have not yet applied, though.

--
⇒⇐ glen e. p. ropella
Will you be entertained by beast and knives?
 



FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

Re: [FRIAM] Government Shutdown

2013-10-01 Thread Roger Critchlow

On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 3:18 PM, Gillian Densmore gil.densm...@gmail.com
 wrote:


 So my question is: as such can Obama not replace the people that forced
 the closure?


I believe they're immune to prosecution except by congress itself, most
especially on questions of being bad congress people.  So, no, the
president can't do anything about them being bad congress people.

But the last time the GOP shut down the government, 17 years ago, they
ended up getting creamed at the polls and Bill Clinton got re-elected.

-- rec --





FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

Re: [FRIAM] Government Shutdown


On 10/1/13 3:55 PM, Roger Critchlow wrote:
On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 3:18 PM, Gillian Densmore 
gil.densm...@gmail.com mailto:gil.densm...@gmail.com wrote:



So my question is: as such can Obama not replace the people that
forced the closure?


I believe they're immune to prosecution except by congress itself, 
most especially on questions of being bad congress people.  So, no, 
the president can't do anything about them being bad congress people.

I'm not sure what they would be prosecuted *for*?  Acting in bad faith?
But the last time the GOP shut down the government, 17 years ago, they 
ended up getting creamed at the polls and Bill Clinton got re-elected.
My memory isn't good enough to know what happened in times before that.  
Late 70's there was quite a bit of thrashing around shutdowns it seems?  
With a fullhouse of democrats (whitehouse, senate *and* congress)?


- Steve



FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

Re: [FRIAM] Government Shutdown

2013-10-01 Thread cody dooderson

Heres one more try at the haiku thing.

feds are not at work
congress is messing stuff up
seems normal to me

Cody Smith


On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 1:22 PM, cody dooderson d00d3r...@gmail.com wrote:

 Heres a Haiku. Maybe can come up with something better

 government shutdown.
 do senators not get sick?
 then i blame the poor

 Cody Smith


 On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 12:32 PM, Gillian Densmore 
 gil.densm...@gmail.comwrote:

 I still blame the potential zombie apocalypse and the presence of Sith on
 this one :P

 (For those that don't know Sith are the zelouse force users in the Star
 Wars universe, with it being common to come up with over the top plots)


 On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 12:14 PM, Roger Critchlow r...@elf.org wrote:

 This was fun:
 http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/comment/2013/09/meadows-boehner-defund-obamacare-suicide-caucus-geography.html

 Where the suicide caucus lives, republican congressmen and mitt romney
 won last fall with double digit margins, the population is  80% white, and
 there's not a chance in hell of those gerrymandered districts going any
 other way for quite a while.  They aren't the majority of the GOP, but
 they're essential to maintaining the GOP majority in congress, so they, 79
 white men and 1 white woman, blackmail the rest of the GOP, the GOP
 blackmails the rest of the government, and Glen gets to eat his
 non-refundable travel expenses.  So it goes.

 I actually don't think that Steve Pearce's district in southern new
 mexico is really that white, but they do have a lot of republican latinos
 down that way.

 This
 http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/09/24/how-did-conservatives-get-this-radical/
  was
 also interesting,

 James Sidanius, a professor of psychology at Harvard, working from a
 liberal perspective, uses a 
 measurehttp://dash.harvard.edu/bitstream/handle/1/3207711/Sidanius_SocialDominanceOrientation.pdf?sequence=1
  he
 calls “Social Dominance Orientation” to 
 describehttp://dash.harvard.edu/bitstream/handle/1/3207711/Sidanius_SocialDominanceOrientation.pdf?sequence=1
  “the
 extent to which one desires that one’s in-group dominate and be superior to
 out-groups.”


 -- rec --


 On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 11:20 AM, Jochen Fromm j...@cas-group.netwrote:

 NIH and NASA are shut down, while NSA is up. Science is the first
 victim.

 -J.

 Sent from Android

 
 FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
 Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
 to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com



 
 FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
 Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
 to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com



 
 FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
 Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
 to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com




FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

Re: [FRIAM] Government Shutdown


haikus continue
dooderson restates obvious
all is well on FRIAM

Heres one more try at the haiku thing.

feds are not at work
congress is messing stuff up
seems normal to me

Cody Smith


On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 1:22 PM, cody dooderson d00d3r...@gmail.com 
mailto:d00d3r...@gmail.com wrote:


Heres a Haiku. Maybe can come up with something better

government shutdown.
do senators not get sick?
then i blame the poor

Cody Smith


On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 12:32 PM, Gillian Densmore
gil.densm...@gmail.com mailto:gil.densm...@gmail.com wrote:

I still blame the potential zombie apocalypse and the presence
of Sith on this one :P

(For those that don't know Sith are the zelouse force users in
the Star Wars universe, with it being common to come up with
over the top plots)


On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 12:14 PM, Roger Critchlow r...@elf.org
mailto:r...@elf.org wrote:

This was fun:

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/comment/2013/09/meadows-boehner-defund-obamacare-suicide-caucus-geography.html


Where the suicide caucus lives, republican congressmen and
mitt romney won last fall with double digit margins, the
population is  80% white, and there's not a chance in
hell of those gerrymandered districts going any other way
for quite a while.  They aren't the majority of the GOP,
but they're essential to maintaining the GOP majority in
congress, so they, 79 white men and 1 white woman,
blackmail the rest of the GOP, the GOP blackmails the rest
of the government, and Glen gets to eat his non-refundable
travel expenses.  So it goes.

I actually don't think that Steve Pearce's district in
southern new mexico is really that white, but they do have
a lot of republican latinos down that way.

This

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/09/24/how-did-conservatives-get-this-radical/
 was
also interesting,

James Sidanius, a professor of psychology at Harvard,
working from a liberal perspective, uses a measure

http://dash.harvard.edu/bitstream/handle/1/3207711/Sidanius_SocialDominanceOrientation.pdf?sequence=1
 he
calls Social Dominance Orientation to describe

http://dash.harvard.edu/bitstream/handle/1/3207711/Sidanius_SocialDominanceOrientation.pdf?sequence=1
 the
extent to which one desires that one's in-group
dominate and be superior to out-groups.


-- rec --


On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 11:20 AM, Jochen Fromm
j...@cas-group.net mailto:j...@cas-group.net wrote:

NIH and NASA are shut down, while NSA is up. Science
is the first victim.

-J.

Sent from Android


FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe
http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com




FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe
http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com




FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe
http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com






FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com



FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

Re: [FRIAM] Government Shutdown


Steve Smith wrote at 10/01/2013 03:49 PM:

I'm not sure what they would be prosecuted *for*?  Acting in bad faith?


We're not talking about the shutdown, per se.  If the House refuses to pass a 
bill to raise the debt limit, then the country defaults.  It's unclear to me 
what that implies.  But I assume, since it's new territory, a team of creative 
attorneys could figure out some way to hold the guilty accountable.

At the very least, they should choose a new speaker.

--
⇒⇐ glen e. p. ropella
Root up the trees caress the dirt
 



FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

Re: [FRIAM] Government Shutdown

2013-10-01 Thread Patrick Reilly

Your children and grandchildren will suffer from this sabotaging of
the US government.  None of this is funny.

On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 4:25 PM, glen g...@ropella.name wrote:
 Steve Smith wrote at 10/01/2013 03:49 PM:

 I'm not sure what they would be prosecuted *for*?  Acting in bad faith?


 We're not talking about the shutdown, per se.  If the House refuses to pass
 a bill to raise the debt limit, then the country defaults.  It's unclear to
 me what that implies.  But I assume, since it's new territory, a team of
 creative attorneys could figure out some way to hold the guilty accountable.

 At the very least, they should choose a new speaker.

 --
 == glen e. p. ropella
 Root up the trees caress the dirt

 
 FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
 Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
 to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com



-- 
The information contained in this transmission may contain privileged
and confidential information.  It is intended only for the use of the
person(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient,  you are
hereby notified that any review, dissemination, distribution or
duplication of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you are
not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email
and destroy all copies of the original message. To reply to our email
administrator directly, please send an email to
patrick.rei...@ipsociety.net.


FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

Re: [FRIAM] Government Shutdown

2013-10-01 Thread Joseph Spinden


Got it in one.

J.


On 10/1/13 12:16 AM, Jochen Fromm wrote:
Is it because the Republicans want to stop health care for the poor? 
That would be evil.


-J.

Sent from Android



 Original message 
From: Patrick Reilly patrick.rei...@ipsociety.net
Date: 01/10/2013 08:01 (GMT+01:00)
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
friam@redfish.com

Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Government Shutdown


We've become Italy en route to landing as Indonesia.

On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 10:58 PM, Jochen Fromm j...@cas-group.net wrote:
 What happened? Is America bankrupt? Insolvent? How could this happen?

 -J.


 Sent from Android

 
 FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
 Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
 to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com



--
The information contained in this transmission may contain privileged
and confidential information.  It is intended only for the use of the
person(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient,  you are
hereby notified that any review, dissemination, distribution or
duplication of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you are
not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email
and destroy all copies of the original message. To reply to our email
administrator directly, please send an email to
patrick.rei...@ipsociety.net.


FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com



FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com



--

Sunlight is the best disinfectant.

  -- Supreme Court Justice Louis D. Brandeis, 1913.


FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

Re: [FRIAM] Government Shutdown


On 10/1/13 5:34 PM, Patrick Reilly wrote:

Your children and grandchildren will suffer from this sabotaging of
the US government.  None of this is funny.
As they will also from our collective sabotaging of the environment and 
the economies and societies of the third world, yet we seem to continue 
to fiddle (watch TV, eat junk food, argue online) as the world oxidizes.


The Anarcho-Libertarian in me has me trying to help them (my two 
daughters and my one granddaughter) be more prepared personally for the 
less than ideal circumstances we are collectively creating for ourselves 
(more to the point, them).


The Humanist in me has me wishing we could do better than this, hoping 
we can do better, trusting we can do better.   I'm sure those 
sabotaging the government think they are rescuing it...  I don't hold 
with the right wing rhetoric on such topics but when I do listen to it 
carefully and openly enough, I know that they at least, believe it 
themselves.


My biggest honest hope in the moment, perhaps,  parallels the comment 
about the backlash against the GOP's last shutdown. Sometimes things 
*do* have to get worse before they get better. That is not to say that I 
fully support the other side in all things, I think there is plenty of 
hard-headed thinking there too, but in this era I'd call them the 
significantly lesser of evils.  A compromise at this point is better 
than nothing but as with Obama's election, I can only call it a 
good start...


What I really *wish* for is a more enlightened self interest from all of 
us on topics ranging from the environment to economy to foreign policy.  
I don't know where that will come from... probably not a religious or 
political leader or institution, and probably not from any particular 
guru.   Perhaps it is the very hard knocks we are enduring (at our own 
hand?) that will lead us to more perspective.


One of the things I like to believe our last dozen years of folly may 
bring is some perspective...


Hope springs infernal,
 - Steve



FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

Re: [FRIAM] Government Shutdown

2013-10-01 Thread Carl Tollander

Assuming the pres invokes the 14th amendment, and it goes to the 
supremes, what happens while they're hearing it?


Of course the teeps might not push the case uphill, given their prior 
belief in said court decisions, and that they're anarchists.


C.

On 10/1/13 6:04 PM, Joseph Spinden wrote:

Got it in one.

J.


On 10/1/13 12:16 AM, Jochen Fromm wrote:
Is it because the Republicans want to stop health care for the poor? 
That would be evil.


-J.

Sent from Android



 Original message 
From: Patrick Reilly patrick.rei...@ipsociety.net
Date: 01/10/2013 08:01 (GMT+01:00)
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
friam@redfish.com

Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Government Shutdown


We've become Italy en route to landing as Indonesia.

On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 10:58 PM, Jochen Fromm j...@cas-group.net 
wrote:

 What happened? Is America bankrupt? Insolvent? How could this happen?

 -J.


 Sent from Android

 
 FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
 Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
 to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com



--
The information contained in this transmission may contain privileged
and confidential information.  It is intended only for the use of the
person(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any review, dissemination, distribution or
duplication of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you are
not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email
and destroy all copies of the original message. To reply to our email
administrator directly, please send an email to
patrick.rei...@ipsociety.net.


FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com



FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribehttp://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com



--

Sunlight is the best disinfectant.

   -- Supreme Court Justice Louis D. Brandeis, 1913.



FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com



FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

Re: [FRIAM] Government Shutdown

2013-10-01 Thread Patrick Reilly

I meant to make a general statement to the list about how I feel about
the dismantlement of the US by anarcho-capitalists and
liberterians-of-convenience.  My comment was meant to be in the
stream and was not directed at your specific comments.  My apologies
for allowing my taste for brevity to lead my sparse commentary to
appear to be an attack of your messaging.

On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 4:59 PM, glen g...@ropella.name wrote:
 Patrick Reilly wrote at 10/01/2013 04:34 PM:

 Your children and grandchildren will suffer from this sabotaging of
 the US government.  None of this is funny.


 Sorry.  I don't understand.  Are you suggesting that I'm making fun of the
 situation?

 --
 == glen e. p. ropella
 The world says I need some help




-- 
The information contained in this transmission may contain privileged
and confidential information.  It is intended only for the use of the
person(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient,  you are
hereby notified that any review, dissemination, distribution or
duplication of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you are
not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email
and destroy all copies of the original message. To reply to our email
administrator directly, please send an email to
patrick.rei...@ipsociety.net.


FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

Re: [FRIAM] Government Shutdown

2013-10-01 Thread Marcus G. Daniels


On 10/1/13 5:34 PM, Patrick Reilly wrote:

Your children and grandchildren will suffer from this sabotaging of
the US government.  None of this is funny.

Is someone laughing?   Not Pelosi, who calls them arsonists, or Reid 
who calls them anarchists, or the president who says they want a 
ransom.If even these leaders use rhetoric like this one might 
pause to remember that other countries (e.g. Egypt) have been known 
recently to round-up a backward minority like the Muslim Brotherhood 
full stop.   How far?


Marcus


FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

[FRIAM] Fwd: [MEA] A new journal, systems' accepting papers on media ecology and an invitation for an MEA panel

2013-10-01 Thread Tom Johnson

fyi, all.
-tj

-- Forwarded message --
From: Bob Logan lo...@physics.utoronto.ca
Date: Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 7:10 PM
Subject: [MEA] A new journal, systems' accepting papers on media ecology
and an invitation for an MEA panel
To: m...@lists.ibiblio.org

Dear MEA Collaegues – I want to introduce you to a new journal

systems. connecting matter, life, culture and technology.

The URL for the journal is www.systems-journal.eu

The journal was started by my friend Wolfgang Hofkirchner and his colleague
Manfred Fuellsack both of whom are systems scientists.

Manfred is Editor-in-Chief of the journal and is at the Institute of
Systems Sciences, Innovation and Sustainability Research, University of
Graz, Austria.

Wolfgang is the Supervisory Editor and is at the Bertalanffy Center for the
Study of Systems Science and the Vienna University of Technology
I have the honour to be an Associate Editor of the journal with a mandate
to recruit papers that deal with media ecology as a systems approach.
Here is a description of the focus and scope of the new journal

Focus and Scope
systems. connecting matter, life, culture and technology publishes the
proceedings of the EMCSR and peer reviewed papers on systems, complexity
and network research, as well as insightful survey papers.

The journal endorses cross-disciplinary approaches and welcomes
contributions that elucidate commonalities and compatibilities in natural,
artificial, and social systems.

Among the domains and topics covered are

• cybernetics
• general systems theory
• complex adaptive systems
• theory of social systems
• systems biology
• economic systems
• technosocial systems
• media ecology -- (please note)
• systems design
• modeling
• complexity
• network theory
• computational and information theory
So why am I introducing you to this journal and soliciting your
participation. It is because I believe that media ecology is a systems
science and I believe that we should make use of this journal to publish
media ecology papers that make use of a systems approach. If media ecology
is to have an impact outside of our own community we need to interact with
scholars in closely allied fields like systems science. Marshall McLuhan
was a systems thinkers who was influenced by Ludwig von Bertalanffy,
Gregory Bateson, Kenneth Boulding, Bucky Fuller and Norbert Weiner. McLuhan
made use of feed forward in is book War and Peace in the Global Village: An
Inventory of Some of the Current Spastic Situations That Could Be
Eliminated by More Feedforward (McLuhan, Fiore and Angel 1968).
Feedforward, one of the key concepts of general systems theory that McLuhan
actually picked up from I. A. Richards, one of his professors at Cambridge.
I. A. Richards actually coined the term feedforward and was certainly a
systems thinker even though he was a rhetorician. I have argued in my book
McLuhan Misunderstood, soon to be released, that McLuhan was a systems
thinker.
I intend to write a paper for this new journal developing the thesis in
greater depth that McLuhan was a systems thinker. I would like to edit a
special edition of the journal, a collection of essays that develops the
thesis that media ecology and/or the writings of McLuhan and other media
ecologists incorporate a general systems approaches. I also would like to
organize a panel discussion on this topic at the MEA convention in Toronto.
I invite you to submit a paper for this collection and participate on the
panel.  Please email me if you are interested in this project to submit a
paper for the journal and/or participate on the panel Media Ecology as a
Systems Science - Bob
__

Robert K. Logan
Chief Scientist - sLab at OCAD
Prof. Emeritus - Physics - U. of Toronto
http://utoronto.academia.edu/RobertKLogan
www.physics.utoronto.ca/Members/logan

___
MEA mailing list
m...@lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/mea

-- 
==
J. T. Johnson
Institute for Analytic Journalism   --   Santa Fe, NM
USAhttp://www.analyticjournalism.com/
505.577.6482(c)505.473.9646(h)
Twitter: jtjohnson
http://www.jtjohnson.com  t...@jtjohnson.com
==

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

Re: [FRIAM] Government Shutdown


Patrick -

Thanks for weighing in, even if your terseness got mistaken for some 
form of criticism!

I meant to make a general statement to the list about how I feel about
the dismantlement of the US by anarcho-capitalists and
liberterians-of-convenience.  My comment was meant to be in the
stream and was not directed at your specific comments.  My apologies
for allowing my taste for brevity to lead my sparse commentary to
appear to be an attack of your messaging.


I myself admit to having an overly large sense of morbid fascination, so 
*I* may be guilty of taking morbid pleasure in the kinds of things being 
discussed.   I love a good Zombie Apocalypse even if it is only 
metaphorical.


I also give your Libertarians of convenience a thumbs up even if I may 
be one.


 Although I *identify* with some of the spirit of 
Anarcho-Libertarianism, it is a *personal* preference which I do not 
expect others to participate in.  I don't honestly expect a Liberatarian 
Utopia to happen (much less be desirable) but I *do* think that a 
faction of (generous?) Libertarians (oxymoron?) can do a lot to improve 
the world.  This is where I find card-carrying Libertarians to fail... 
they insist on personal choice being paramount and then try to foist it 
on everyone else...  paradox much?


- Steve


On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 4:59 PM, glen g...@ropella.name wrote:

Patrick Reilly wrote at 10/01/2013 04:34 PM:

Your children and grandchildren will suffer from this sabotaging of
the US government.  None of this is funny.


Sorry.  I don't understand.  Are you suggesting that I'm making fun of the
situation?

--
== glen e. p. ropella
The world says I need some help








FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

Re: [FRIAM] Dr. Jeff Masters' WunderBlog : Landmark 2013 IPCC Report: 95% Chance Most of Global Warming is Human-Caused | Weather Underground

Robert -

Here's an interesting take on the issue. What do insurance companies
think about climate change?

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/15/business/insurers-stray-from-the-conservative-line-on-climate-change.html
Good contribution. I don't know if this helps with Nick's pursuit of a
rational discussion but I think the point made here is highly relevant:

Science seeks mechanisms of causality that explain as well as predict,
often studying correlation along the way to get to it. Insurance
companies are happy with correlation and prediction... they don't *care*
what causes what, they only care that one measurable thing predicts
(within some interval of confidence) another.

I think your point is well taken, however: While highly politicized
discussions may argue over whether climate change is afoot, insurance
companies don't waste their breath on such arguments. Whatever the cause
of the weather may be, they are betting on more and more extreme weather.

Unfortunately, I think it benefits their business to *over* estimate
extreme climate... it lets them charge higher rates to anyone *near*
hurricane, tsunami, flood, or tornado country for said coverage... the
best scenario for them is to predict more extreme weather than actually
happens.

Similarly, I was surprised to see this:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/09/25/here-is-every-previous-government-shutdown-why-they-happened-and-how-they-ended/

Again, the stock market is somewhat humorless about world events...
following the efficient market hypothesis, it doesn't really care
about political correctness or the illusions caste by politicians with
agendas. The financial markets are a huge crowd-sourced prediction
game. On the other hand, to the extent those who are *analysing* the
stock market's response to government closures might have the agenda of
a bull or bear's desire. While the stock market is not so much
responsive to the then illusions of politics, that is not to say it
doesn't ride the crests and troughs of it's own greatest hopes and fears.

I *am* surprised however, that the stock market took a small bump
upwards today in spite of or is it because of the shutdown? How does a
government shutdown bode well for the financial markets? I assume it is
more in spite of than because of the shutdown... or some kind of
reverse psychology effect... all the savvy players taking advantage of
the chicken littles willing to unload their stocks at a bargain in the
face of uncertainty?

For those of us who might want to put our money where our mouths are
http://tippie.uiowa.edu/iem/markets/congress14.html... the Iowa
Futures Market explore this in predicting interesting things such as the
outcome of political contests.

Any insights in FRIAM-land?

- Steve

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

Re: [FRIAM] Fwd: [MEA] A new journal, systems' accepting papers on media ecology and an invitation for an MEA panel