Re: [FRIAM] Is the new president mentally ill?

[Jochen Fromm]

Meryl Streep reminds me of Clemens August Graf von Galen, who was one of the 
few bishops that had the courage to criticize the Nazi regime. He was a bishop 
in my hometown Münster near the Dutch border. In his sermons he criticized that 
the Nazis were killing innocent disabled people. The program was named T4. The 
Nazis let him live because he was too popular among the people. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clemens_August_Graf_von_Galen
Many other priests and bishops were imprisoned by the Gestapo  (the secret 
state police) in concentration camps and died. In St. Hedwig's cathedral in 
Berlin many of those are mentioned on memorial plagues. While it may be futile 
to resist, those who have the courage to do it are not forgotten. 
It can also help to document the things that are unfolding, the violations of 
human rights, the corruption, and the injustice. In Dresden there was a Jewish 
professor Victor Klemperer who covered the actions of the Nazi regime in his 
diaries and journals. He was an important witness of all the injustice that 
happened. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_Klemperer
-J.

 Original message From: glen ☣  Date: 
1/12/17  02:07  (GMT+01:00) To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee 
Group  Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Is the new president mentally 
ill? 

But the question is what actions are guided by remote diagnosis?  I admit that 
I hope high visibility shaming like that from Streep, when added to the rest of 
the stress he will be / has been under, will make him go away.  But it's not 
likely for the same reasons Steve cites that blame and stigma won't really work 
on him.

I suppose if we could really confirm that he's a particular type of narcissist, 
then we could build models of what he may or may not do and choose actions 
based on their expected efficacy.  But because, almost by definition, everyone 
who willingly runs for President is a narcissist of some sort or other and to 
differing extent, that diagnosis isn't helpful.

Listening to the confirmation hearings is more helpful, I think.  Take note of 
all the (many) issues where Trump and his appointees express diametrically 
opposite positions.  Focus on those fissures.  At best, his administration will 
shatter.  At worst, the more distance you can put between the incompetent 
Cheeto and the competent people surrounding him, the more likely we'll end up 
with a Bush2 or a late-stage-Reagan ... maybe not good, but not catastrophic.

On 01/11/2017 03:34 PM, Jochen Fromm wrote:
> Eric I believe you are wrong if you believe you can have a narcissistic 
> person on your site. A narcissist cares only for himself. The policy of Trump 
> boils down to "I'm great and you're not unless you are like me, myself and I, 
> you loser". There is no way how he can make the country great again. As Paul 
> Krugman said America will turn into some form of authoritarianism, into a 
> Trumpistan nightmare at best. 
> Mr. Trump does not only have a brand, he *is* a brand, a brand that says "I'm 
> great". If you stay in this Trump hotel you are great. If you play on this 
> Trump golf course you are great, too. But it is just a facade. It is based on 
> lies, and there is nothing behind the shiny facade except emptiness. 
> Therefore he seems to hit back immediately if someone damages his image and 
> his brand, because he ceases to exist if his image is destroyed. He and his 
> brand have become undistinguishable.
> Marketing is no way to make America great again, Google has already an OS for 
> ads, and the American corporations excel in marketing, especially the fast 
> food chains. What will he do, build a Trump hotel in every city, a Trump golf 
> course in every national park? This would be a total Trumpistan nightmare. 
> Better than the nuclear apocalypse, but who would want such a future...


-- 
☣ glen


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Re: [FRIAM] Is the new president mentally ill?

[Jochen Fromm]

Eric I believe you are wrong if you believe you can have a narcissistic person 
on your site. A narcissist cares only for himself. The policy of Trump boils 
down to "I'm great and you're not unless you are like me, myself and I, you 
loser". There is no way how he can make the country great again. As Paul 
Krugman said America will turn into some form of authoritarianism, into a 
Trumpistan nightmare at best. 
Mr. Trump does not only have a brand, he *is* a brand, a brand that says "I'm 
great". If you stay in this Trump hotel you are great. If you play on this 
Trump golf course you are great, too. But it is just a facade. It is based on 
lies, and there is nothing behind the shiny facade except emptiness. Therefore 
he seems to hit back immediately if someone damages his image and his brand, 
because he ceases to exist if his image is destroyed. He and his brand have 
become undistinguishable.
Marketing is no way to make America great again, Google has already an OS for 
ads, and the American corporations excel in marketing, especially the fast food 
chains. What will he do, build a Trump hotel in every city, a Trump golf course 
in every national park? This would be a total Trumpistan nightmare. Better than 
the nuclear apocalypse, but who would want such a future...
-J.

 Original message From: Eric Charles 
 Date: 1/11/17  22:08  (GMT+01:00) To: The 
Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group  Subject: Re: 
[FRIAM] Is the new president mentally ill? 
This is, overall, a strange concern, because you need additional layers of 
analysis. Functional narcissists do well because they have particular 
strengths, and when those strengths are on the side of third parties, those 
third parties tend to do quite well. To the extent that we can get Trump's 
narcissism to effectively feed off of the success of the country (which he 
seems quite willing to do), things will probably go quite well. To the extent 
that he is able to look at Putin and say "Who care's what you think? I'm 
president of the U.S., which is doing great by the way, terrific, and you are 
at the top of a crumbled empire," I don't think there is any risk of reaching 
for the football. A nuclear bomb wouldn't be good for the stock market, 
wouldn't help real estate prices, wouldn't help convince Ford to move that 
factory to the U.S., where Trump could do a ribbon cutting in front of an 
adulating crowd. 
People keep saying that he is quick to anger, holds grudges, goes on the attack 
to much, but, frankly, we are mostly talking about tweets here. Has he ever 
bought a company just to fire someone? Is there an implication he has ever had 
people killed who were suing him (something well within his financial means)? 
Has he started a company to bankrupt someone else in the same niche who pissed 
him off? Are we really afraid he will go from tweet to nuclear launch with no 
escalation in between? What past history of escalation do we have to suggest 
that is a thing to worry about? And, in the mean time, might we not get some 
countries to the bargaining table based on the perception that Trump won't rule 
nuclear launch out, who might not be dealing with us otherwise? 
If we are lucky, we have an effective narcissist on our side. If we are unlucky 
we have a reasonably competent businessman, in way over his head. Either way, 
I'm not worried he'll launch a nuke in week 2. 


---
Eric P. Charles, Ph.D.
Supervisory Survey Statistician
U.S. Marine Corps


On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 1:54 AM, Jochen Fromm  wrote:
I posted this on Google+, since we have a lot of psychologists here you might 
be interested too?
Psychologists, therapists and mental health professionals seem to be fascinated 
and terrified alike by the new president who has not only become a brand, but 
is nothing but a brand: 

1. he seems to be a textbook case of a narcissistic personality disorder
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/richard-greene/is-donald-trump-mentally_b_13693174.html

2. he was elected although he imitates the behavior of an massive Internet troll
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-embodied-mind/201701/unified-theory-trump

3. he displays a total lack of honesty and truth-telling
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/

All DSM-5 criteria of a narcissistic personality disorder seem to be fulfilled. 
Should we be worried? What do you think? He shows a clear need for instant 
retaliation if someone criticizes him, which is obviously some form a 
narcissistic rage. It is clearly more than a self-serving bias, and such a deep 
personality disorder is not harmless at all. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-serving_bias

The problem is he is in a position where he can pull the strings now, as the 
commander in chief of the most powerful army. The US has about 2000 nuclear 
weapons on high alert, and there is a soldier with the nuclear football 
following the 

Re: [FRIAM] Is the new president mentally ill?

[Marcus Daniels]

A better example might be something like the ACA.  The ACA required Obama to 
make compromises, expend political capital, and play a longer game all while 
taking constant abuse for it.   Or deciding how to balance national and global 
interests in places like Iraq, Syria, or Afghanistan.   Tasks that are 
analytical and calculated and in the interest of the many aren’t always popular 
decisions at first.

From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Eric Charles
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2017 2:09 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Is the new president mentally ill?

This is, overall, a strange concern, because you need additional layers of 
analysis. Functional narcissists do well because they have particular 
strengths, and when those strengths are on the side of third parties, those 
third parties tend to do quite well. To the extent that we can get Trump's 
narcissism to effectively feed off of the success of the country (which he 
seems quite willing to do), things will probably go quite well. To the extent 
that he is able to look at Putin and say "Who care's what you think? I'm 
president of the U.S., which is doing great by the way, terrific, and you are 
at the top of a crumbled empire," I don't think there is any risk of reaching 
for the football. A nuclear bomb wouldn't be good for the stock market, 
wouldn't help real estate prices, wouldn't help convince Ford to move that 
factory to the U.S., where Trump could do a ribbon cutting in front of an 
adulating crowd.

People keep saying that he is quick to anger, holds grudges, goes on the attack 
to much, but, frankly, we are mostly talking about tweets here. Has he ever 
bought a company just to fire someone? Is there an implication he has ever had 
people killed who were suing him (something well within his financial means)? 
Has he started a company to bankrupt someone else in the same niche who pissed 
him off? Are we really afraid he will go from tweet to nuclear launch with no 
escalation in between? What past history of escalation do we have to suggest 
that is a thing to worry about? And, in the mean time, might we not get some 
countries to the bargaining table based on the perception that Trump won't rule 
nuclear launch out, who might not be dealing with us otherwise?

If we are lucky, we have an effective narcissist on our side. If we are unlucky 
we have a reasonably competent businessman, in way over his head. Either way, 
I'm not worried he'll launch a nuke in week 2.



---
Eric P. Charles, Ph.D.
Supervisory Survey Statistician
U.S. Marine Corps

On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 1:54 AM, Jochen Fromm 
> wrote:
I posted this on Google+, since we have a lot of psychologists here you might 
be interested too?

Psychologists, therapists and mental health professionals seem to be fascinated 
and terrified alike by the new president who has not only become a brand, but 
is nothing but a brand:

1. he seems to be a textbook case of a narcissistic personality disorder
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/richard-greene/is-donald-trump-mentally_b_13693174.html

2. he was elected although he imitates the behavior of an massive Internet troll
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-embodied-mind/201701/unified-theory-trump

3. he displays a total lack of honesty and truth-telling
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/

All DSM-5 criteria of a narcissistic personality disorder seem to be fulfilled. 
Should we be worried? What do you think? He shows a clear need for instant 
retaliation if someone criticizes him, which is obviously some form a 
narcissistic rage. It is clearly more than a self-serving bias, and such a deep 
personality disorder is not harmless at all.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-serving_bias

The problem is he is in a position where he can pull the strings now, as the 
commander in chief of the most powerful army. The US has about 2000 nuclear 
weapons on high alert, and there is a soldier with the nuclear football 
following the president at all times. What could go wrong?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_football

-Jochen





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Re: [FRIAM] Is the new president mentally ill?

[Jochen Fromm]

What's the point of diagnosing him? Protest. Resistance. Revelation. Isn't it 
alarming enough that the country is sliding into an authoritarian state? It is 
even worse if the president is mentally ill. I have never participated in a 
demonstration, but if this would happen here, I would demonstrate every day I 
could afford. In a country with thousands of nuclear weapons an evil president 
can do much more harm than a good president can do good. He can ruin the whole 
world and tumble into the abyss, dragging the whole world with him.
-J.

 Original message From: Carter Charbonneau  
Date: 1/11/17  17:10  (GMT+01:00) To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity 
Coffee Group  Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Is the new president 
mentally ill? 
http://lesswrong.com/lw/2as/diseased_thinking_dissolving_questions_about/
Seriously, what's the point of diagnosing him?
On Jan 10, 2017 11:55 PM, "Jochen Fromm"  wrote:
I posted this on Google+, since we have a lot of psychologists here you might 
be interested too?
Psychologists, therapists and mental health professionals seem to be fascinated 
and terrified alike by the new president who has not only become a brand, but 
is nothing but a brand: 

1. he seems to be a textbook case of a narcissistic personality disorder
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/richard-greene/is-donald-trump-mentally_b_13693174.html

2. he was elected although he imitates the behavior of an massive Internet troll
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-embodied-mind/201701/unified-theory-trump

3. he displays a total lack of honesty and truth-telling
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/

All DSM-5 criteria of a narcissistic personality disorder seem to be fulfilled. 
Should we be worried? What do you think? He shows a clear need for instant 
retaliation if someone criticizes him, which is obviously some form a 
narcissistic rage. It is clearly more than a self-serving bias, and such a deep 
personality disorder is not harmless at all. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-serving_bias

The problem is he is in a position where he can pull the strings now, as the 
commander in chief of the most powerful army. The US has about 2000 nuclear 
weapons on high alert, and there is a soldier with the nuclear football 
following the president at all times. What could go wrong?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_football
-Jochen





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Re: [FRIAM] Is the new president mentally ill?

[Eric Charles]

This is, overall, a strange concern, because you need additional layers of
analysis. Functional narcissists do well because they have particular
strengths, and when those strengths are on the side of third parties, those
third parties tend to do quite well. To the extent that we can get Trump's
narcissism to effectively feed off of the success of the country (which he
seems quite willing to do), things will probably go quite well. To the
extent that he is able to look at Putin and say "Who care's what you think?
I'm president of the U.S., which is doing great by the way, terrific, and
you are at the top of a crumbled empire," I don't think there is any risk
of reaching for the football. A nuclear bomb wouldn't be good for the stock
market, wouldn't help real estate prices, wouldn't help convince Ford to
move that factory to the U.S., where Trump could do a ribbon cutting in
front of an adulating crowd.

People keep saying that he is quick to anger, holds grudges, goes on the
attack to much, but, frankly, we are mostly talking about tweets here. Has
he ever bought a company just to fire someone? Is there an implication he
has ever had people killed who were suing him (something well within his
financial means)? Has he started a company to bankrupt someone else in the
same niche who pissed him off? Are we really afraid he will go from tweet
to nuclear launch with no escalation in between? What past history
of escalation do we have to suggest that is a thing to worry about? And, in
the mean time, might we not get some countries to the bargaining table
based on the perception that Trump won't rule nuclear launch out, who might
not be dealing with us otherwise?

If we are lucky, we have an effective narcissist on our side. If we are
unlucky we have a reasonably competent businessman, in way over his head.
Either way, I'm not worried he'll launch a nuke in week 2.



---
Eric P. Charles, Ph.D.
Supervisory Survey Statistician
U.S. Marine Corps


On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 1:54 AM, Jochen Fromm  wrote:

> I posted this on Google+, since we have a lot of psychologists here you
> might be interested too?
>
> Psychologists, therapists and mental health professionals seem to be
> fascinated and terrified alike by the new president who has not only become
> a brand, but is nothing but a brand:
>
> 1. he seems to be a textbook case of a narcissistic personality disorder
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/richard-greene/is-donald-
> trump-mentally_b_13693174.html
>
> 2. he was elected although he imitates the behavior of an massive Internet
> troll
> https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-embodied-mind/
> 201701/unified-theory-trump
>
> 3. he displays a total lack of honesty and truth-telling
> http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/
>
> All DSM-5 criteria of a narcissistic personality disorder seem to be
> fulfilled. Should we be worried? What do you think? He shows a clear need
> for instant retaliation if someone criticizes him, which is obviously some
> form a narcissistic rage. It is clearly more than a self-serving bias, and
> such a deep personality disorder is not harmless at all.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-serving_bias
>
> The problem is he is in a position where he can pull the strings now, as
> the commander in chief of the most powerful army. The US has about 2000
> nuclear weapons on high alert, and there is a soldier with the nuclear
> football following the president at all times. What could go wrong?
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_football
>
> -Jochen
>
>
>
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>

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Re: [FRIAM] The year ahead

[Marcus Daniels]

IMO, it is like a tradeoff between adhesion and cohesion.   Education creates 
something to adhere to (or, more positively, to build upon), but in order for 
it to break local cohesive strength (of a local community full of chuch-goers, 
rednecks, etc.), it has to be pretty strong.   Merely being a little more 
enlightened doesn’t give that individual much more power in their world (and in 
some cases less by being a sore thumb that conspicuously sticks out), so many 
opt to conform to the norms of their community.   If you dive off the 
springboard, there better be water visible below.

Or think of education as being a magnet (or set of magnets), that, to first 
order gives a `right answer’, bias, or politically correct answer for a set of 
questions.   The uniformity of this field causes the influenced to look like 
many other influenced individuals.   But a rural person doesn’t have endless 
opportunities for social training compared to a person in a city.   Even if 
they are `as well biased’ by the magnets, they won’t necessarily seem that way 
because of how they interact.  Such individuals from the country are at not a 
competitive advantage to those in metropolitan regions.  They have fewer 
networking opportunities and less support infrastructure (e.g. subways).   So, 
low adhesion and high cohesion naturally leads to insular communities which 
have arbitrary, narrow, and prescriptive lifestyles.

From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Merle Lefkoff
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2017 11:21 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] The year ahead

Why won't education make (a?) difference?

On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 11:08 AM, Robert J. Cordingley 
> wrote:

“Give me a child until he is 7 and I will show you the man.” ― Aristotle, The 
Philosophy of Aristotle and from Psychology Today a build and an argument to 
get control of the media too: 
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-power-rest/201303/give-us-kid-till-shes-7-and-well-have-her-life

Timing and Marketing is everything.

Robert C

On 1/8/17 11:30 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
It’s wildly optimistic to think education will make the difference.



--

Cirrillian

Web Design & Development

Santa Fe, NM

http://cirrillian.com

281-989-6272 (cell)

Member Design Corps of Santa Fe


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--
Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
President, Center for Emergent Diplomacy
Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
merlelef...@gmail.com
mobile:  (303) 859-5609
skype:  merle.lelfkoff2

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Re: [FRIAM] Is the new president mentally ill?

[Nick Thompson]

Hi, Carter, 

 

Well, fair question.  My basic premise here is that if one  understands a bad 
situation, one can take steps to ameliorate it.  My mood is to retreat into 
philosophy for the next 4 years.  At my age,  I don’t really expect to survive 
them, in any case, so that is a very comfortable place to go.  But what ABOUT 
the grandchildren?   So, what can I do?  Well, one thing I can do is convince 
Merle that this isn’t an ordinary political situation.  That mean and dumb 
(Pence) really would be better than smart and delusional (Trump).  

 

Nick 

 

 

 

 

 

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

  
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

 

From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Carter Charbonneau
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2017 9:30 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Is the new president mentally ill?

 

Are you actually going to make different predictions than you did before this 
occurred to you?

On Wednesday, January 11, 2017, Nick Thompson  > wrote:

C.  explanation ==> prediction ==>control N

 

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

  
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

 

From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com 
 ] On Behalf Of 
Carter Charbonneau
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2017 9:10 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group  >
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Is the new president mentally ill?

 

http://lesswrong.com/lw/2as/diseased_thinking_dissolving_questions_about/

Seriously, what's the point of diagnosing him?

On Jan 10, 2017 11:55 PM, "Jochen Fromm"  > wrote:

I posted this on Google+, since we have a lot of psychologists here you might 
be interested too?

 

Psychologists, therapists and mental health professionals seem to be fascinated 
and terrified alike by the new president who has not only become a brand, but 
is nothing but a brand: 

1. he seems to be a textbook case of a narcissistic personality disorder
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/richard-greene/is-donald-trump-mentally_b_13693174.html

2. he was elected although he imitates the behavior of an massive Internet troll
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-embodied-mind/201701/unified-theory-trump

3. he displays a total lack of honesty and truth-telling
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/

All DSM-5 criteria of a narcissistic personality disorder seem to be fulfilled. 
Should we be worried? What do you think? He shows a clear need for instant 
retaliation if someone criticizes him, which is obviously some form a 
narcissistic rage. It is clearly more than a self-serving bias, and such a deep 
personality disorder is not harmless at all. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-serving_bias

The problem is he is in a position where he can pull the strings now, as the 
commander in chief of the most powerful army. The US has about 2000 nuclear 
weapons on high alert, and there is a soldier with the nuclear football 
following the president at all times. What could go wrong?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_football

 

-Jochen

 

 

 



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Re: [FRIAM] Is the new president mentally ill?

[glen ☣]

Awesome contribution, Steve!  There's so much to both agree and argue with, I 
simply must indulge.

I think there's more substance to the "peaceful transition of power" rhetoric 
than we're all giving credit, here.  Yes, each new President can destroy the 
world.  And leaving the selection of people to wield such power up to such a 
Rube Goldberg machine like our money-is-speech constitutional republic 
semi-democracy is very scary.  But none of this implies, in any way, that we 
should buy into the rampant over-diagnosis of every little behavioral trait as 
a disease.  (Gee, I like my coffee black... I must be have black-coffee-liking 
syndrome.)  People wonder why we have a health care crisis ... it's partly 
because our knowledge (both scientific and engineering (including medicine)) is 
like a fractal.  It's intricate and you can follow any path for your entire 
life.  And many paths are very weakly justified, if at all.  (Fake news is 
nothing more than part of the same phenotype as pseudo-science and quackery.)  
We design and prescribe drugs for every little trait.  We extract and 
re-package molecules to sell as "vitamins" and supplements.  We scoff at chop 
grinders and establish our tribe with our burr grinders.

In the end, there are only 2 types of us: Type_1) those who have faith in 
things like the Singularity or God and Type_2) those of us who relish the 
bubbling cauldron of stew we live in.  I pride myself on my ability to switch 
modes, much like I take pride in my willingness to defend (however 
incompetently) things like Post Modernism when all my friends start trashing 
it. >8^)

The reigning advice is: Don't freak out.  Type_1's: find the things you can do 
to reify your Deity, given the current state, and do them.  Type_2's: Scoop up 
a fresh ladle and enjoy, because you'll be dead soon.

And finally, having Trump as president will either _falsify_ or validate our 
recent pop culture trends (e.g. heaping meritless reward on things like 
Kardashians; isolating out fetishizing singular phenomena, while ignoring their 
context like we idolize singers and ignore the back-up band; distilling and 
extreme-dosing things like resveratrol, etc.).  I welcome the opportunity to 
test my hypothesis that cultural phenomena like Big Brother, Survivor, American 
Idol, Shark Tank, and The Apprentice are vapid wastes of time and energy.  If 
Trump is successful (even if _only_ because he's constrained by the deep 
state), my hypothesis will be weakened (dramatically).  But if he fails in a 
serious way (impeached, nukes the world, etc.), then my hypothesis will have 
more justification than it currently has.



On 01/11/2017 08:34 AM, Steven A Smith wrote:
> Unfortunately It would appear that blame and stigma are not effective with 
> our president elect who is a brand, who is an empire, who is an icon of 
> narcissistic abuse of others.  I would also appear that he would not accept, 
> much less seek treatment.  I believe this is what makes him "Teflon"... his 
> complete denial (or unawareness) of there being a problem.   "The right way, 
> the wrong way, the Trump way" prevails.  Our new "Narcissist in Chief" is 
> about to take his throne, and as long as he has many subjects to worship him, 
> he will remain there.
> 
> While "the Donald" IS the imminent delivery mechanism of our (potentially 
> devastating) undoing,  it is his myriad supporters from many (expected and 
> not) walks of life who might need treatment or stigmatization.   The "elites" 
> and "bleeding heart liberals"  would be the ones under equal scrutiny about 
> now, had "the Hillary" squeeked into office he way the Donald did.
> 
> I believe we are a nation (world) at risk of collapsing under our own 
> Neuroses.  I offer the Buddhist concept that we all see the world as we 
> choose to, roughly in one of the four categories: "World as Battleground;  
> World as Trap;  World as Lover; World as Self".   I have aligned myself 
> modestly with the "elites and bleeding hearts" to the extent that they tend 
> to choose the latter 2 over the former and avoid the "self righteous right" 
> and "knee jerk conservatives" for *their propensity* to frame everything as 
> Battleground and Trap.  My support of Hillary and Obama broke down where they 
> lapsed too far into Battleground/Trap.
> 
> I hope that the "Million Woman March" coming up carries more of the 
> Lover/Self than the Battleground/Trap.  Women (and many others) have good 
> reason to see the Trump Ascendency as a Trap and a Call to Arms, but I 
> believe confrontation alone only propagates the problem.
> 
> After a bad trauma, radical debridement or cauterization, even amputation are 
> often called for.  Ultimately it is the wound/surgery aftercare and systemic 
> support that returns the patient to vital health.   The "make America Great 
> Again" crowd do not nurture nor support, it just isn't in their kit.  The 
> nurturers of our culture need to remain ready to do 

Re: [FRIAM] The year ahead

[Gillian Densmore]

Just to poke fun at this whole thing:
I love being a skunk good amount of experience but it's pretty wonky
keeping my modest career going.

A man in his 70's, arguably neurotic and xenophic, possibly Autistic as
well, has a history of tanking what ever he does? Sure no problem be the
countries person-to-organize things
Anyone else both amused and bothered by that? Do we not see a problem here?



On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 11:20 AM, Merle Lefkoff 
wrote:

> Why won't education make (a?) difference?
>
> On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 11:08 AM, Robert J. Cordingley <
> rob...@cirrillian.com> wrote:
>
>> “Give me a child until he is 7 and I will show you the man.” ― Aristotle,
>> The Philosophy of Aristotle and from Psychology Today a build and an
>> argument to get control of the media too: https://www.psychologytoday.co
>> m/blog/the-power-rest/201303/give-us-kid-till-shes-7-and-
>> well-have-her-life
>>
>> Timing and Marketing is everything.
>>
>> Robert C
>>
>> On 1/8/17 11:30 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
>>
>> It’s wildly optimistic to think education will make the difference.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Cirrillian
>> Web Design & Development
>> Santa Fe, NMhttp://cirrillian.com281-989-6272 <(281)%20989-6272> (cell)
>> Member Design Corps of Santa Fe
>>
>>
>> 
>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
>> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
> President, Center for Emergent Diplomacy
> Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
> merlelef...@gmail.com
> mobile:  (303) 859-5609
> skype:  merle.lelfkoff2
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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Re: [FRIAM] The year ahead

[Merle Lefkoff]

Why won't education make (a?) difference?

On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 11:08 AM, Robert J. Cordingley <
rob...@cirrillian.com> wrote:

> “Give me a child until he is 7 and I will show you the man.” ― Aristotle,
> The Philosophy of Aristotle and from Psychology Today a build and an
> argument to get control of the media too: https://www.psychologytoday.
> com/blog/the-power-rest/201303/give-us-kid-till-shes-
> 7-and-well-have-her-life
>
> Timing and Marketing is everything.
>
> Robert C
>
> On 1/8/17 11:30 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
>
> It’s wildly optimistic to think education will make the difference.
>
>
> --
> Cirrillian
> Web Design & Development
> Santa Fe, NMhttp://cirrillian.com281-989-6272 <(281)%20989-6272> (cell)
> Member Design Corps of Santa Fe
>
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>



-- 
Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
President, Center for Emergent Diplomacy
Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
merlelef...@gmail.com
mobile:  (303) 859-5609
skype:  merle.lelfkoff2

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Re: [FRIAM] The year ahead

[Robert J. Cordingley]

“Give me a child until he is 7 and I will show you the man.” ― 
Aristotle, The Philosophy of Aristotle and from Psychology Today a build 
and an argument to get control of the media too: 
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-power-rest/201303/give-us-kid-till-shes-7-and-well-have-her-life 



Timing and Marketing is everything.

Robert C


On 1/8/17 11:30 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:

It’s wildly optimistic to think education will make the difference.


--
Cirrillian
Web Design & Development
Santa Fe, NM
http://cirrillian.com
281-989-6272 (cell)
Member Design Corps of Santa Fe


FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Re: [FRIAM] Is the new president mentally ill?

[Steven A Smith]

Carter -

I found the article an excellent addition to this discussion.

   /Instead of continuing the fruitless "disease" argument, we should
   address these questions directly. Taking a determinist
   consequentialist position allows us to do so more effectively. We
   should blame and stigmatize people for conditions where blame and
   stigma are the most useful methods for curing or preventing the
   condition, and we should allow patients to seek treatment whenever
   it is available and effective.
   /

Unfortunately It would appear that blame and stigma are not effective 
with our president elect who is a brand, who is an empire, who is an 
icon of narcissistic abuse of others.  I would also appear that he would 
not accept, much less seek treatment.  I believe this is what makes him 
"Teflon"... his complete denial (or unawareness) of there being a 
problem.   "The right way, the wrong way, the Trump way" prevails.  Our 
new "Narcissist in Chief" is about to take his throne, and as long as he 
has many subjects to worship him, he will remain there.


While "the Donald" IS the imminent delivery mechanism of our 
(potentially devastating) undoing,  it is his myriad supporters from 
many (expected and not) walks of life who might need treatment or 
stigmatization.   The "elites" and "bleeding heart liberals"  would be 
the ones under equal scrutiny about now, had "the Hillary" squeeked into 
office he way the Donald did.


I believe we are a nation (world) at risk of collapsing under our own 
Neuroses.  I offer the Buddhist concept that we all see the world as we 
choose to, roughly in one of the four categories: "World as 
Battleground;  World as Trap;  World as Lover; World as Self".   I have 
aligned myself modestly with the "elites and bleeding hearts" to the 
extent that they tend to choose the latter 2 over the former and avoid 
the "self righteous right" and "knee jerk conservatives" for *their 
propensity* to frame everything as Battleground and Trap.  My support of 
Hillary and Obama broke down where they lapsed too far into 
Battleground/Trap.


I hope that the "Million Woman March" coming up carries more of the 
Lover/Self than the Battleground/Trap.  Women (and many others) have 
good reason to see the Trump Ascendency as a Trap and a Call to Arms, 
but I believe confrontation alone only propagates the problem.


After a bad trauma, radical debridement or cauterization, even 
amputation are often called for.  Ultimately it is the wound/surgery 
aftercare and systemic support that returns the patient to vital 
health.   The "make America Great Again" crowd do not nurture nor 
support, it just isn't in their kit.  The nurturers of our culture need 
to remain ready to do what we do as the self-limiting (but possibly 
huge) damage comes to it's logical conclusion.


Carry On,
 - Steve


http://lesswrong.com/lw/2as/diseased_thinking_dissolving_questions_about/

Seriously, what's the point of diagnosing him?

On Jan 10, 2017 11:55 PM, "Jochen Fromm" > wrote:


I posted this on Google+, since we have a lot of psychologists
here you might be interested too?

Psychologists, therapists and mental health professionals seem to
be fascinated and terrified alike by the new president who has not
only become a brand, but is nothing but a brand:

1. he seems to be a textbook case of a narcissistic personality
disorder

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/richard-greene/is-donald-trump-mentally_b_13693174.html



2. he was elected although he imitates the behavior of an massive
Internet troll

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-embodied-mind/201701/unified-theory-trump



3. he displays a total lack of honesty and truth-telling
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/


All DSM-5 criteria of a narcissistic personality disorder seem to
be fulfilled. Should we be worried? What do you think? He shows a
clear need for instant retaliation if someone criticizes him,
which is obviously some form a narcissistic rage. It is clearly
more than a self-serving bias, and such a deep personality
disorder is not harmless at all.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-serving_bias


The problem is he is in a position where he can pull the strings
now, as the commander in chief of the most powerful army. The US
has about 2000 nuclear weapons on high alert, and there is a
soldier with the nuclear football following the president at all
times. What could go wrong?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_football


-Jochen

Re: [FRIAM] Is the new president mentally ill?

[Carter Charbonneau]

Are you actually going to make different predictions than you did before
this occurred to you?

On Wednesday, January 11, 2017, Nick Thompson 
wrote:

> C.  explanation è prediction ècontrol N
>
>
>
> Nicholas S. Thompson
>
> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
>
> Clark University
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com
> ] *On Behalf
> Of *Carter Charbonneau
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 11, 2017 9:10 AM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam@redfish.com >
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Is the new president mentally ill?
>
>
>
> http://lesswrong.com/lw/2as/diseased_thinking_dissolving_questions_about/
>
> Seriously, what's the point of diagnosing him?
>
> On Jan 10, 2017 11:55 PM, "Jochen Fromm"  > wrote:
>
> I posted this on Google+, since we have a lot of psychologists here you
> might be interested too?
>
>
>
> Psychologists, therapists and mental health professionals seem to be
> fascinated and terrified alike by the new president who has not only become
> a brand, but is nothing but a brand:
>
> 1. he seems to be a textbook case of a narcissistic personality disorder
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/richard-greene/is-donald-
> trump-mentally_b_13693174.html
>
> 2. he was elected although he imitates the behavior of an massive Internet
> troll
> https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-embodied-mind/
> 201701/unified-theory-trump
>
> 3. he displays a total lack of honesty and truth-telling
> http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/
>
> All DSM-5 criteria of a narcissistic personality disorder seem to be
> fulfilled. Should we be worried? What do you think? He shows a clear need
> for instant retaliation if someone criticizes him, which is obviously some
> form a narcissistic rage. It is clearly more than a self-serving bias, and
> such a deep personality disorder is not harmless at all.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-serving_bias
>
> The problem is he is in a position where he can pull the strings now, as
> the commander in chief of the most powerful army. The US has about 2000
> nuclear weapons on high alert, and there is a soldier with the nuclear
> football following the president at all times. What could go wrong?
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_football
>
>
>
> -Jochen
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>
>

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Re: [FRIAM] Is the new president mentally ill?

[Nick Thompson]

Merle, 

 

I would find the premises of your response comforting, if I shared them.  But 
the premise of the Jochen’s original post is that he is REALLY crazy.  As in 
delusional, impulsive, paranoid, given to angry rages, un-restrained by such 
considerations as nuclear annihilation.  “What do I need with a country; I’ve 
got my bunker and my girls.”  

 

In the context of the REALLY crazy, the “ordinary-crazy” might seem quite 
refreshing.  

 

Nick 

 

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

  
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

 

From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Merle Lefkoff
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2017 8:04 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Is the new president mentally ill?

 

Some of Obama's foreign policy adventures did great harm to this country.

 

One of the biggest problems with promoting impeachment is that Vice-President 
Pence is a much smarter, more dangerous potential leader. 

 

On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 12:11 AM, Nick Thompson  > wrote:

Hi, Jochen, 

 

I tried a couple of weeks ago to get everybody worried about this and nobody 
bit.  Briefly, in the first few months Trump discovers that he cannot do 
anything domestically because … alas …. of the constitution.  He then promotes 
riots in the streets followed by the “reluctant” imposition of martial law.  
Or, he turns to foreign policy and gets into a lovers spat with Putin and 
reaches for the football.  

 

The only comfort I have is that I knew people in 2008 and 2012 who were as 
afraid of Obama as I am of Trump, and nothing bad happened.  Well, nothing bad 
happened because of Obama.  

 

The problem may be that it’s SO scary that we don’t know where to start.  There 
are demonstrations planned all over the country, locally this week, and in 
Washington after the Inauguration.  While these may prevent Trump from doing 
anything legislatively,  it surely does address the existential crisis that 
lurks beyond these early frustrations.  

 

According to the Constitution, the present may be declared incompetent by a 
majority of his senior administration … Cabinet, mostly I think.  But notice 
that he has stacked the cabinet with people who are, if anything, loonier than 
he is, so I very much doubt that any of them would vote to remove him.  Maddis, 
perhaps, but that’s about it. 

 

Impeachment is a very real possibility, but it takes a lot of time, and a crazy 
President has enormous power to make the country pay for trying. 

 

I have a few pro-Trumpers who reassure me that no rational man would take the 
kinds of risks that I fear, that like all bullies he will back down when he 
sees that his tantrums aren’t getting anywhere.  But what if he’s not a 
rational man?  What then?

 

Nick 

 

 

 

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

 

From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com 
 ] On Behalf Of Jochen Fromm
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2017 11:55 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group  >
Subject: [FRIAM] Is the new president mentally ill?

 

I posted this on Google+, since we have a lot of psychologists here you might 
be interested too?

 

Psychologists, therapists and mental health professionals seem to be fascinated 
and terrified alike by the new president who has not only become a brand, but 
is nothing but a brand: 

1. he seems to be a textbook case of a narcissistic personality disorder
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/richard-greene/is-donald-trump-mentally_b_13693174.html

2. he was elected although he imitates the behavior of an massive Internet troll
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-embodied-mind/201701/unified-theory-trump

3. he displays a total lack of honesty and truth-telling
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/

All DSM-5 criteria of a narcissistic personality disorder seem to be fulfilled. 
Should we be worried? What do you think? He shows a clear need for instant 
retaliation if someone criticizes him, which is obviously some form a 
narcissistic rage. It is clearly more than a self-serving bias, and such a deep 
personality disorder is not harmless at all. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-serving_bias

The problem is he is in a position where he can pull the strings now, as the 
commander in chief of the most powerful army. The US has about 2000 nuclear 
weapons on high alert, and there is a soldier with the nuclear football 
following the president at all times. What could go wrong?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_football

 

-Jochen

 

 

 

Re: [FRIAM] Is the new president mentally ill?

[Nick Thompson]

C.  explanation ==> prediction ==>control N

 

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

  
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

 

From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Carter Charbonneau
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2017 9:10 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Is the new president mentally ill?

 

http://lesswrong.com/lw/2as/diseased_thinking_dissolving_questions_about/

Seriously, what's the point of diagnosing him?

On Jan 10, 2017 11:55 PM, "Jochen Fromm"  > wrote:

I posted this on Google+, since we have a lot of psychologists here you might 
be interested too?

 

Psychologists, therapists and mental health professionals seem to be fascinated 
and terrified alike by the new president who has not only become a brand, but 
is nothing but a brand: 

1. he seems to be a textbook case of a narcissistic personality disorder
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/richard-greene/is-donald-trump-mentally_b_13693174.html

2. he was elected although he imitates the behavior of an massive Internet troll
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-embodied-mind/201701/unified-theory-trump

3. he displays a total lack of honesty and truth-telling
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/

All DSM-5 criteria of a narcissistic personality disorder seem to be fulfilled. 
Should we be worried? What do you think? He shows a clear need for instant 
retaliation if someone criticizes him, which is obviously some form a 
narcissistic rage. It is clearly more than a self-serving bias, and such a deep 
personality disorder is not harmless at all. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-serving_bias

The problem is he is in a position where he can pull the strings now, as the 
commander in chief of the most powerful army. The US has about 2000 nuclear 
weapons on high alert, and there is a soldier with the nuclear football 
following the president at all times. What could go wrong?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_football

 

-Jochen

 

 

 



FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove


FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Re: [FRIAM] Is the new president mentally ill?

[Carter Charbonneau]

http://lesswrong.com/lw/2as/diseased_thinking_dissolving_questions_about/

Seriously, what's the point of diagnosing him?
On Jan 10, 2017 11:55 PM, "Jochen Fromm"  wrote:

> I posted this on Google+, since we have a lot of psychologists here you
> might be interested too?
>
> Psychologists, therapists and mental health professionals seem to be
> fascinated and terrified alike by the new president who has not only become
> a brand, but is nothing but a brand:
>
> 1. he seems to be a textbook case of a narcissistic personality disorder
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/richard-greene/is-donald-
> trump-mentally_b_13693174.html
>
> 2. he was elected although he imitates the behavior of an massive Internet
> troll
> https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-embodied-mind/
> 201701/unified-theory-trump
>
> 3. he displays a total lack of honesty and truth-telling
> http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/
>
> All DSM-5 criteria of a narcissistic personality disorder seem to be
> fulfilled. Should we be worried? What do you think? He shows a clear need
> for instant retaliation if someone criticizes him, which is obviously some
> form a narcissistic rage. It is clearly more than a self-serving bias, and
> such a deep personality disorder is not harmless at all.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-serving_bias
>
> The problem is he is in a position where he can pull the strings now, as
> the commander in chief of the most powerful army. The US has about 2000
> nuclear weapons on high alert, and there is a soldier with the nuclear
> football following the president at all times. What could go wrong?
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_football
>
> -Jochen
>
>
>
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Re: [FRIAM] Is the new president mentally ill?

[Grant Holland]

Jochen, Nick,

I have the same concerns. Thx for speaking up.

Grant


On 1/11/17 12:11 AM, Nick Thompson wrote:


Hi, Jochen,

I tried a couple of weeks ago to get everybody worried about this and 
nobody bit.  Briefly, in the first few months Trump discovers that he 
cannot do anything domestically because … alas …. of the 
constitution.  He then promotes riots in the streets followed by the 
“reluctant” imposition of martial law.  Or, he turns to foreign policy 
and gets into a lovers spat with Putin and reaches for the football.


The only comfort I have is that I knew people in 2008 and 2012 who 
were as afraid of Obama as I am of Trump, and nothing bad happened.  
Well, nothing bad happened because of Obama.


The problem may be that it’s SO scary that we don’t know where to 
start.  There are demonstrations planned all over the country, locally 
this week, and in Washington after the Inauguration.  While these may 
prevent Trump from doing anything legislatively,  it surely does 
address the existential crisis that lurks beyond these early 
frustrations.


According to the Constitution, the present may be declared incompetent 
by a majority of his senior administration … Cabinet, mostly I think.  
But notice that he has stacked the cabinet with people who are, if 
anything, loonier than he is, so I very much doubt that any of them 
would vote to remove him. Maddis, perhaps, but that’s about it.


Impeachment is a very real possibility, but it takes a lot of time, 
and a crazy President has enormous power to make the country pay for 
trying.


I have a few pro-Trumpers who reassure me that no rational man would 
take the kinds of risks that I fear, that like all bullies he will 
back down when he sees that his tantrums aren’t getting anywhere.  But 
what if he’s not a rational man?  What then?


Nick

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ 



*From:*Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Jochen 
Fromm

*Sent:* Tuesday, January 10, 2017 11:55 PM
*To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 


*Subject:* [FRIAM] Is the new president mentally ill?

I posted this on Google+, since we have a lot of psychologists here 
you might be interested too?


Psychologists, therapists and mental health professionals seem to be 
fascinated and terrified alike by the new president who has not only 
become a brand, but is nothing but a brand:


1. he seems to be a textbook case of a narcissistic personality disorder
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/richard-greene/is-donald-trump-mentally_b_13693174.html

2. he was elected although he imitates the behavior of an massive 
Internet troll

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-embodied-mind/201701/unified-theory-trump

3. he displays a total lack of honesty and truth-telling
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/

All DSM-5 criteria of a narcissistic personality disorder seem to be 
fulfilled. Should we be worried? What do you think? He shows a clear 
need for instant retaliation if someone criticizes him, which is 
obviously some form a narcissistic rage. It is clearly more than a 
self-serving bias, and such a deep personality disorder is not 
harmless at all.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-serving_bias

The problem is he is in a position where he can pull the strings now, 
as the commander in chief of the most powerful army. The US has about 
2000 nuclear weapons on high alert, and there is a soldier with the 
nuclear football following the president at all times. What could go 
wrong?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_football

-Jochen




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Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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Re: [FRIAM] Is the new president mentally ill?

[Merle Lefkoff]

Some of Obama's foreign policy adventures did great harm to this country.

One of the biggest problems with promoting impeachment is that
Vice-President Pence is a much smarter, more dangerous potential leader.

On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 12:11 AM, Nick Thompson 
wrote:

> Hi, Jochen,
>
>
>
> I tried a couple of weeks ago to get everybody worried about this and
> nobody bit.  Briefly, in the first few months Trump discovers that he
> cannot do anything domestically because … alas …. of the constitution.  He
> then promotes riots in the streets followed by the “reluctant” imposition
> of martial law.  Or, he turns to foreign policy and gets into a lovers spat
> with Putin and reaches for the football.
>
>
>
> The only comfort I have is that I knew people in 2008 and 2012 who were as
> afraid of Obama as I am of Trump, and nothing bad happened.  Well, nothing
> bad happened because of Obama.
>
>
>
> The problem may be that it’s SO scary that we don’t know where to start.
> There are demonstrations planned all over the country, locally this week,
> and in Washington after the Inauguration.  While these may prevent Trump
> from doing anything legislatively,  it surely does address the existential
> crisis that lurks beyond these early frustrations.
>
>
>
> According to the Constitution, the present may be declared incompetent by
> a majority of his senior administration … Cabinet, mostly I think.  But
> notice that he has stacked the cabinet with people who are, if anything,
> loonier than he is, so I very much doubt that any of them would vote to
> remove him.  Maddis, perhaps, but that’s about it.
>
>
>
> Impeachment is a very real possibility, but it takes a lot of time, and a
> crazy President has enormous power to make the country pay for trying.
>
>
>
> I have a few pro-Trumpers who reassure me that no rational man would take
> the kinds of risks that I fear, that like all bullies he will back down
> when he sees that his tantrums aren’t getting anywhere.  But what if he’s
> not a rational man?  What then?
>
>
>
> Nick
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Nicholas S. Thompson
>
> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
>
> Clark University
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Jochen
> Fromm
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 10, 2017 11:55 PM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam@redfish.com>
> *Subject:* [FRIAM] Is the new president mentally ill?
>
>
>
> I posted this on Google+, since we have a lot of psychologists here you
> might be interested too?
>
>
>
> Psychologists, therapists and mental health professionals seem to be
> fascinated and terrified alike by the new president who has not only become
> a brand, but is nothing but a brand:
>
> 1. he seems to be a textbook case of a narcissistic personality disorder
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/richard-greene/is-donald-
> trump-mentally_b_13693174.html
>
> 2. he was elected although he imitates the behavior of an massive Internet
> troll
> https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-embodied-mind/
> 201701/unified-theory-trump
>
> 3. he displays a total lack of honesty and truth-telling
> http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/
>
> All DSM-5 criteria of a narcissistic personality disorder seem to be
> fulfilled. Should we be worried? What do you think? He shows a clear need
> for instant retaliation if someone criticizes him, which is obviously some
> form a narcissistic rage. It is clearly more than a self-serving bias, and
> such a deep personality disorder is not harmless at all.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-serving_bias
>
> The problem is he is in a position where he can pull the strings now, as
> the commander in chief of the most powerful army. The US has about 2000
> nuclear weapons on high alert, and there is a soldier with the nuclear
> football following the president at all times. What could go wrong?
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_football
>
>
>
> -Jochen
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>



-- 
Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
President, Center for Emergent Diplomacy
Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
merlelef...@gmail.com
mobile:  (303) 859-5609
skype:  merle.lelfkoff2

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Re: [FRIAM] Is the new president mentally ill?

[Alfredo Covaleda Vélez]

The Permian extinction is a good reference point. During these extinction
disappeared almost all the species in the oceans and almost three of four
terrestrial vertebrate species, almost all the insects and many species of
microorganisms. Maybe Trump will be a disaster, but I am sure that he will
not do it better than Permian extinction. At least he needs to ensure to
mantain some of his buildings standed up.

On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 2:11 AM, Nick Thompson 
wrote:

> Hi, Jochen,
>
>
>
> I tried a couple of weeks ago to get everybody worried about this and
> nobody bit.  Briefly, in the first few months Trump discovers that he
> cannot do anything domestically because … alas …. of the constitution.  He
> then promotes riots in the streets followed by the “reluctant” imposition
> of martial law.  Or, he turns to foreign policy and gets into a lovers spat
> with Putin and reaches for the football.
>
>
>
> The only comfort I have is that I knew people in 2008 and 2012 who were as
> afraid of Obama as I am of Trump, and nothing bad happened.  Well, nothing
> bad happened because of Obama.
>
>
>
> The problem may be that it’s SO scary that we don’t know where to start.
> There are demonstrations planned all over the country, locally this week,
> and in Washington after the Inauguration.  While these may prevent Trump
> from doing anything legislatively,  it surely does address the existential
> crisis that lurks beyond these early frustrations.
>
>
>
> According to the Constitution, the present may be declared incompetent by
> a majority of his senior administration … Cabinet, mostly I think.  But
> notice that he has stacked the cabinet with people who are, if anything,
> loonier than he is, so I very much doubt that any of them would vote to
> remove him.  Maddis, perhaps, but that’s about it.
>
>
>
> Impeachment is a very real possibility, but it takes a lot of time, and a
> crazy President has enormous power to make the country pay for trying.
>
>
>
> I have a few pro-Trumpers who reassure me that no rational man would take
> the kinds of risks that I fear, that like all bullies he will back down
> when he sees that his tantrums aren’t getting anywhere.  But what if he’s
> not a rational man?  What then?
>
>
>
> Nick
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Nicholas S. Thompson
>
> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
>
> Clark University
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Jochen
> Fromm
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 10, 2017 11:55 PM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam@redfish.com>
> *Subject:* [FRIAM] Is the new president mentally ill?
>
>
>
> I posted this on Google+, since we have a lot of psychologists here you
> might be interested too?
>
>
>
> Psychologists, therapists and mental health professionals seem to be
> fascinated and terrified alike by the new president who has not only become
> a brand, but is nothing but a brand:
>
> 1. he seems to be a textbook case of a narcissistic personality disorder
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/richard-greene/is-donald-
> trump-mentally_b_13693174.html
>
> 2. he was elected although he imitates the behavior of an massive Internet
> troll
> https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-embodied-mind/
> 201701/unified-theory-trump
>
> 3. he displays a total lack of honesty and truth-telling
> http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/
>
> All DSM-5 criteria of a narcissistic personality disorder seem to be
> fulfilled. Should we be worried? What do you think? He shows a clear need
> for instant retaliation if someone criticizes him, which is obviously some
> form a narcissistic rage. It is clearly more than a self-serving bias, and
> such a deep personality disorder is not harmless at all.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-serving_bias
>
> The problem is he is in a position where he can pull the strings now, as
> the commander in chief of the most powerful army. The US has about 2000
> nuclear weapons on high alert, and there is a soldier with the nuclear
> football following the president at all times. What could go wrong?
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_football
>
>
>
> -Jochen
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove