Re: [Full-disclosure] Meet Kurt Greenbaum, Director of Social Media, St. Louis Post-Dispatch, Reports commenter to employer.
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 01:42:08 +0100, netinfinity said: necessary to submit the post. If this fails then you should conntact the ISP of the spammer based on the IP. Unfortunately, that's exactly what *did* happen. Although for *home* users, the 'ISP' is the person to complain to, for organizations that run their own networks (like many businesses and schools, etc) the proper place to complain is the network management of that organization. He contacted the admins of the school's network, and said One of your users is being a bozo. The admin found the user and it resulted in the user resigning. (Remember - in this case, contacting the school's network provider would *not* have found the user, because the network provider just provides a connection and bandwidth. Any login records/etc are at the *school*, not the provider). pgpDFUVwnr8sX.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] Meet Kurt Greenbaum, Director of Social Media, St. Louis Post-Dispatch, Reports commenter to employer.
(Remember - in this case, contacting the school's network provider would *not* have found the user, because the network provider just provides a connection and bandwidth. Any login records/etc are at the *school*, not the provider). Vladis .. not sure about that school since it was K12, but in both your case and mine .. we *are* the ISP (insofar as we have our own ASN and valid info on whois). If K12 is done there like I've seen in a lot of other places, they probably have a consortium that provides connectivity and each institution has a CIDR block within the consortium's AS .. and I'm sure the school had some web-nazi appliance that made it a few-clicks of a mouse to figure out whodunit. Also .. as to the legal matters .. the instructor in question would have been in a much better position if he'd been fired rather than resigning. Granted, he probably quit because he knew he *would* be fired .. but it's hard to argue unlawful termination when you quit on your own (IANAL, etc.). Cheers, Michael Holstein Cleveland State University ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
[Full-disclosure] Meet Kurt Greenbaum, Director of Social Media, St. Louis Post-Dispatch, Reports commenter to employer.
I smell a lawsuit coming on for our friend Greenbaum. ReadWriteWeb has an article up today discussing an incident in which a school employee lost his job after leaving a comment on the website of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch newspaper. After the school employee responded to the newspaper's poll of 'the strangest thing you've ever eaten' with a feline-inspired vulgarity, Kurt Greenbaum, the site's director of social media, tracked down the commenter's identity through his IP address and reported him to school officials. When confronted, the school employee resigned from his job. http://yro.slashdot.org/story/09/11/19/0526239/Vulgar-Comment-On-Newspaper-Site-Costs-Man-His-Job The comment in question: I have eaten many different animals (or at least parts of them), including rattlesnake, crocodile, alligator, iguana, turtle, and many different molluscs, arthropods, echinoids, and whatnot from sea or river. I have also eaten squirrel, bear, dog, and cat. So, I can say I have eaten pussy, and you can interpret or misinterpret it any way you want. Oh, and woof-woof, too. Chilling free speech? It must invade the privacy of the poster to call his place of work over a comment like this. What Greenbaum did was against the privacy policy of the site: We will not share individual user information with third parties unless the user has specifically approved the release of that information So should people who run newspaper blogs call up the place of work to report they said an innuendo about cats? http://igreenbaum.com I'll be the first to say it. Kurt Greenbaum is a miraculous hypocrite who's career has basically been ruined. He may as well be like Chris Hansen and expose pedophiles. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CgUXWIOLLw __ Do You Yahoo!? Sie sind Spam leid? Yahoo! Mail verfügt über einen herausragenden Schutz gegen Massenmails. http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] Meet Kurt Greenbaum, Director of Social Media, St. Louis Post-Dispatch, Reports commenter to employer.
What Greenbaum did was against the privacy policy of the site: You seem to be missing the part where the comment was removed (several times) and re-posted. From : http://www.stltoday.com/help/privacy-policy ..to protect against misuse or unauthorized use of our web sites Cheers, Michael Holstein Cleveland State University ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] Meet Kurt Greenbaum, Director of Social Media, St. Louis Post-Dispatch, Reports commenter to employer.
They're ORs, unfortunately. The language is unclear but it seems to be one of those infernal boilerplate pieces of shit that basically invalidate the assurances as to privacy. You could still probably press the suit. Unauthorised use has recently been defined and redefined, it's an evolving piece of law and if you have the resources to get a jury trial they'll *want* to find in favor of the plaintiff, which is more important than you might expect. 2009/11/20 mrx m...@propergander.org.uk -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Michael Holstein wrote: What Greenbaum did was against the privacy policy of the site: You seem to be missing the part where the comment was removed (several times) and re-posted. From : http://www.stltoday.com/help/privacy-policy ..to protect against misuse or unauthorized use of our web sites Cheers, Michael Holstein Cleveland State University So what? Ban the IP address. Admittedly a childish comment but the site is hardly one that is frequented by children. imho Mr K. Greenbaum should be fired and sued. And Mr Holstein you seem to be using your quote above out of context... Compliance with Legal Process We may disclose personal information if we or one of our affiliated companies is required by law to disclose personal information, or if we believe in good faith that such action is necessary to comply with a law or some legal process, to protect or defend our rights and property, to protect against misuse or unauthorized use of our web sites or to protect the personal safety or property of our users or the public. INAL, however I ask where is the legal process in this matter? regards mrx - -- I am not an expert, I have much to learn, I make mistakes. My words are just opinions which may or may not reflect the truth. Be kind to others, yet trust no one. http://www.propergander.org.uk -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQEVAwUBSwXFRrIvn8UFHWSmAQIwtwf/VNGjwG1wW7wd2BlUYf1XiQyG+DnjUGwQ GLrHcda/hGBw912diOjSGfVEe3jZSgfrK3SAH2lIrRfMK/I+n6IJxzKOks41Ojmo 14DsWiuc/58aAF1Y0heK94Wm1jfzIqMx9GjR7iKLKKAW94YULyCh90xRgwIToNeO WsxT0wP+f5XvZubCpXPVRGQV42XW1kg84t5dzPZXkjiii5dL6hSF7XBOLOrBejry EMw+Eh3RUy1Jm4pjlzOwOUhm0BlHdYwzf+GPNs7X+wCE975gZ6K5P8T+UdvJP7nT qL/jC7S8qNyVi2SBlURKLRaJm50GYv/dY9QDFLwWklcflymw67fMkw== =tE1f -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/ ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] Meet Kurt Greenbaum, Director of Social Media, St. Louis Post-Dispatch, Reports commenter to employer.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 No problem regarding the personal post, I have made the same mistake myself. I also see what you mean regarding the language of the privacy statement. unauthorised use could be interpreted as any use that has not been given explicit approval before the fact. Weasel words imho. And Mr Holstein if this was the point you were trying to make, I accept it. regards mrx dramacrat wrote: Sorry, forgot to reply-to-all. 2009/11/20 dramacrat yirim...@gmail.com They're ORs, unfortunately. The language is unclear but it seems to be one of those infernal boilerplate pieces of shit that basically invalidate the assurances as to privacy. You could still probably press the suit. Unauthorised use has recently been defined and redefined, it's an evolving piece of law and if you have the resources to get a jury trial they'll *want* to find in favor of the plaintiff, which is more important than you might expect. 2009/11/20 mrx m...@propergander.org.uk -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Michael Holstein wrote: What Greenbaum did was against the privacy policy of the site: You seem to be missing the part where the comment was removed (several times) and re-posted. From : http://www.stltoday.com/help/privacy-policy ..to protect against misuse or unauthorized use of our web sites Cheers, Michael Holstein Cleveland State University So what? Ban the IP address. Admittedly a childish comment but the site is hardly one that is frequented by children. imho Mr K. Greenbaum should be fired and sued. And Mr Holstein you seem to be using your quote above out of context... Compliance with Legal Process We may disclose personal information if we or one of our affiliated companies is required by law to disclose personal information, or if we believe in good faith that such action is necessary to comply with a law or some legal process, to protect or defend our rights and property, to protect against misuse or unauthorized use of our web sites or to protect the personal safety or property of our users or the public. INAL, however I ask where is the legal process in this matter? regards mrx - -- I am not an expert, I have much to learn, I make mistakes. My words are just opinions which may or may not reflect the truth. Be kind to others, yet trust no one. http://www.propergander.org.uk -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQEVAwUBSwXFRrIvn8UFHWSmAQIwtwf/VNGjwG1wW7wd2BlUYf1XiQyG+DnjUGwQ GLrHcda/hGBw912diOjSGfVEe3jZSgfrK3SAH2lIrRfMK/I+n6IJxzKOks41Ojmo 14DsWiuc/58aAF1Y0heK94Wm1jfzIqMx9GjR7iKLKKAW94YULyCh90xRgwIToNeO WsxT0wP+f5XvZubCpXPVRGQV42XW1kg84t5dzPZXkjiii5dL6hSF7XBOLOrBejry EMw+Eh3RUy1Jm4pjlzOwOUhm0BlHdYwzf+GPNs7X+wCE975gZ6K5P8T+UdvJP7nT qL/jC7S8qNyVi2SBlURKLRaJm50GYv/dY9QDFLwWklcflymw67fMkw== =tE1f -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/ - -- I am not an expert, I have much to learn, I make mistakes. My words are just opinions which may or may not reflect the truth. Be kind to others, yet trust no one. http://www.propergander.org.uk -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQEVAwUBSwXfxbIvn8UFHWSmAQL9SQgAvu4cN5dby3AUGPtYyX0NnHvVUEdEeJ6Y yvbKgi5/VOT9uqAnoRWRABLwJh3dcrCpzKA9gjSWpyalqU/YzEQvfB/iFI1QQmZg 9u6N/mZgGkAW1WYeM54AnawrYW8a+2sF1c1QWBhX0gYRGNctOs/Gi7ObvndDb57Q k4CAp537TqXLzbUwzPkoqNBoaDhBCa4CEkONvFYJtVbUTwmry8gH55tWXI48Fz6/ vWaw9XY5SDUmxz1QYnfji0YKg3OR2YPfdxKxRATdFba4iZa8S3AiOgxZ/OXDNewh aeILmusBEeCjG+2Wx//EB6lTf5xr9sr7CMHziG+PZ/EsW/GctyNw1A== =WZoJ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] Meet Kurt Greenbaum, Director of Social Media, St. Louis Post-Dispatch, Reports commenter to employer.
Mr. Kurt Greenbaum made a mistake. Privacy violated, because there are other mechanism's like baninig the IP, email or whatever is necessary to submit the post. If this fails then you should conntact the ISP of the spammer based on the IP. -- netinfinity ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] Meet Kurt Greenbaum, Director of Social Media, St. Louis Post-Dispatch, Reports commenter to employer.
Feel free to share your feelings with Greenbaum's boss: Kevin Mowbray Phone: 314-340-8970 E-mail: kmowb...@post-dispatch.com --- mrx m...@propergander.org.uk schrieb am Fr, 20.11.2009: Von: mrx m...@propergander.org.uk Betreff: Re: [Full-disclosure] Meet Kurt Greenbaum, Director of Social Media, St. Louis Post-Dispatch, Reports commenter to employer. An: full-disclosure@lists.grok.org.uk Datum: Freitag, 20. November 2009, 0:16 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 No problem regarding the personal post, I have made the same mistake myself. I also see what you mean regarding the language of the privacy statement. unauthorised use could be interpreted as any use that has not been given explicit approval before the fact. Weasel words imho. And Mr Holstein if this was the point you were trying to make, I accept it. regards mrx dramacrat wrote: Sorry, forgot to reply-to-all. 2009/11/20 dramacrat yirim...@gmail.com They're ORs, unfortunately. The language is unclear but it seems to be one of those infernal boilerplate pieces of shit that basically invalidate the assurances as to privacy. You could still probably press the suit. Unauthorised use has recently been defined and redefined, it's an evolving piece of law and if you have the resources to get a jury trial they'll *want* to find in favor of the plaintiff, which is more important than you might expect. 2009/11/20 mrx m...@propergander.org.uk -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Michael Holstein wrote: What Greenbaum did was against the privacy policy of the site: You seem to be missing the part where the comment was removed (several times) and re-posted. From : http://www.stltoday.com/help/privacy-policy ..to protect against misuse or unauthorized use of our web sites Cheers, Michael Holstein Cleveland State University So what? Ban the IP address. Admittedly a childish comment but the site is hardly one that is frequented by children. imho Mr K. Greenbaum should be fired and sued. And Mr Holstein you seem to be using your quote above out of context... Compliance with Legal Process We may disclose personal information if we or one of our affiliated companies is required by law to disclose personal information, or if we believe in good faith that such action is necessary to comply with a law or some legal process, to protect or defend our rights and property, to protect against misuse or unauthorized use of our web sites or to protect the personal safety or property of our users or the public. INAL, however I ask where is the legal process in this matter? regards mrx - -- I am not an expert, I have much to learn, I make mistakes. My words are just opinions which may or may not reflect the truth. Be kind to others, yet trust no one. http://www.propergander.org.uk -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQEVAwUBSwXFRrIvn8UFHWSmAQIwtwf/VNGjwG1wW7wd2BlUYf1XiQyG+DnjUGwQ GLrHcda/hGBw912diOjSGfVEe3jZSgfrK3SAH2lIrRfMK/I+n6IJxzKOks41Ojmo 14DsWiuc/58aAF1Y0heK94Wm1jfzIqMx9GjR7iKLKKAW94YULyCh90xRgwIToNeO WsxT0wP+f5XvZubCpXPVRGQV42XW1kg84t5dzPZXkjiii5dL6hSF7XBOLOrBejry EMw+Eh3RUy1Jm4pjlzOwOUhm0BlHdYwzf+GPNs7X+wCE975gZ6K5P8T+UdvJP7nT qL/jC7S8qNyVi2SBlURKLRaJm50GYv/dY9QDFLwWklcflymw67fMkw== =tE1f -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/ - -- I am not an expert, I have much to learn, I make mistakes. My words are just opinions which may or may not reflect the truth. Be kind to others, yet trust no one. http://www.propergander.org.uk -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQEVAwUBSwXfxbIvn8UFHWSmAQL9SQgAvu4cN5dby3AUGPtYyX0NnHvVUEdEeJ6Y yvbKgi5/VOT9uqAnoRWRABLwJh3dcrCpzKA9gjSWpyalqU/YzEQvfB/iFI1QQmZg 9u6N/mZgGkAW1WYeM54AnawrYW8a+2sF1c1QWBhX0gYRGNctOs/Gi7ObvndDb57Q k4CAp537TqXLzbUwzPkoqNBoaDhBCa4CEkONvFYJtVbUTwmry8gH55tWXI48Fz6/ vWaw9XY5SDUmxz1QYnfji0YKg3OR2YPfdxKxRATdFba4iZa8S3AiOgxZ/OXDNewh aeILmusBEeCjG+2Wx//EB6lTf5xr9sr7CMHziG+PZ/EsW/GctyNw1A== =WZoJ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Sie sind Spam leid? Yahoo! Mail verfügt über einen herausragenden Schutz gegen Massenmails. http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
