Re: FVWM: Stepping down from next year.
Thomas Adam wrote: I'd hoped to do more on this, but cannot. I really now do not have sufficient time to devote to this project. I will be around if you need me for general questions, etc., a lurker if you will, but I cannot guarantee or promise an active role in FVWM's development, and I wouldn't want anyone here to rely on that possibility. So until/if that changes, consider me idle. As far as 2.6.5's release goes, that too will have to be handled by someone else. The Wiki and FvwmForums I shall keep ticking over for everyone to enjoy. I want to thank everyone for their efforts and help over the years. I've enjoyed it. :) Bye bye... -- Thomas Adam It's too bad that you leave the project :( ... at least you're in the background, so perhaps, in the future, you'll find time to come back ... would be fine ... I wish you all the best and ... what can I say more than thank you very much for all your help and pretty good work over the years ... Respectfully, Thomas
Re: FVWM: Stepping down from next year.
On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 08:54:35AM +0300, ro...@cloudcabin.org wrote: It's sad Thomas is leaving. What's going to be with the boards? Which boards are you referring to? The forums? They're such low maintenance now, I've already said in a previous reply that I'll keep them ticking over, along with the wiki unless/until someone wishes to take them over. -- Thomas Adam
Re: FVWM: Stepping down from next year.
On 11/07/2011 02:43 PM, Thomas Adam wrote: Hello all, This is a very quick note to let you all know that as of next year I will be stepping down as the maintainer of FVWM -- largely this role is a very loose one, but since I seem to be the most vocal and more visibally active developer here, I felt it wise to mention this just in case people wonder where I've gone. I do not have the time anymore to devote to this project. As such, I will still be providing ad-hoc bug-fixes, and general advice, but that's about all. I will not be working on any major features. My last batch of work on this will be to complete module deprecation, even if that's stub code. Dominik Vogt and I are completing work on the Git conversion still, which I am pleased about. These will be done by early next year. As soon as that happens, I shall release FVWM 2.6.4 -- after that, well, that's someone else's problem. :) Thanks all. It's been fun. :) -- Thomas Adam As a committed user since way back, I thank you for all your patience and contributions. Any idea how development will be organized after you move on? Will FVWM go into maintenance mode only? I really hope it does not become like Nedit - I've been carrying forward a binary of this gem (compiled a long time ago) to every Slackware upgrade. :-) Regardless of what may happen, all the best to you.
Re: FVWM: Stepping down from next year.
Emmanuel Seyman wrote: * Harry portobello [10/11/2011 22:37] : Did you stop to think that maybe you were the cause for the lack of activity and you leaving is a good thing to fvwm? In cases like the one you've described (the main developer holding back the community), the project tends to be forked and the community adopts the fork. To my knowledge, this hasn't happened to FVWM. Emmanuel The FVWM community indeed does a thing that I initially advised Harry Portobello to do: To explain. Thanks for this! I learn a lot about the rules of the open source movement. I'm sure, I'm not the only one who is understanding concepts such as this one that Emmanuel Seyman explained with this contribution just by reading these threads. Some not so good things like Harry, showing that he constantly has to to put a question mark over everything that he is surrounded with, because maybe he still doesn't have found the right strategy to manage his live, such kind of not so good things sometimes have a positive flipside: We all learn a lot :-) Michael
Re: FVWM: Stepping down from next year.
On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 08:30:20PM +, Harry portobello wrote: what will happen to fvwm when you do? are you the only person doing it now? I do not know, but it will still exist. I am not the be-all-and-end-all of FVWM, by the way. That's really important you understand that last point. would i be able for commit rights for this? I am hoping to reimplement some features you've removed. For as long as I still have commit privs, I will never vouch you get them. Sorry, but you've demonstrated a fundamental lack of competence which makes me very uneasy giving you any level of access. If you care that much (despite my FvwmEvent suggestion from before), fork FVWM, call it HVWM or something, and have a blast [1]. Good luck getting any users to move away from FVWM though. -- Thomas Adam [1] Considering I went to efforts to further explain how it worked to you, I am surprised you can't just *use* it. -- Deep in my heart I wish I was wrong. But deep in my heart I know I am not. -- Morrissey (Girl Least Likely To -- off of Viva Hate.)
Re: FVWM: Stepping down from next year.
Harry portobello: | would i be able for commit rights for this? I am hoping to reimplement | some features you've removed. | | For as long as I still have commit privs, I will never vouch you get | them. Sorry, but you've demonstrated a fundamental lack of competence | which makes me very uneasy giving you any level of access. | | This is insulting. Why not? I sent through a patch to fix the %t | problem already and you didn't comment. I will observe that saying 'please give me commit access so that I can fix your horrible design mistakes' is generally not going to be an effective approach to actually getting commit access. The current developers generally made the decisions that they did precisely because they feel that those decisions are *good* design decisions. Unless you have already successfully changed their minds about this, they are not going to be eager to see their good decisions reversed in favour of poorer ones; in fact, they are going to take your desire to do so as strong evidence that you make bad design decisions and so should not be allowed near the code. (Note that this holds true regardless of who is actually right about what the correct design decisions are.) - cks
Re: FVWM: Stepping down from next year.
On Wed, Nov 09, 2011 at 09:53:11AM +0100, Bert Geens wrote: Am I correct in assuming that the idea of an FvwmSocket style module is sort of dead in the water now? No, I'll be completing that as well as deprecating the other modules. It will be someone else's problem as to when/how that's pushed out to users in such a way that things don't break. All I am guaranteeing is that the code for it will be present. -- Thomas Adam
Re: FVWM: Stepping down from next year.
On Tue, Nov 08, 2011 at 02:28:01AM +, John Latham wrote: Having a single maintainer is too much of a burden. I've always been surprised that anyone would take on that role. Yes, that's probably true. I think Thomas is at the end of his power. The permanent attacks against him the last time weren't very cooperative at all ... Wait a moment: surely Thomas' decision isn't influenced by a few (one?), at best, misguided individuals' attempts to, at best, help in a bad way? Thomas: please reassure us this is the case?! Nope, nothing like that. I simply do not have the time anymore. -- Thomas Adam
FvwmLayout (Was: Re: FVWM: Stepping down from next year.)
On Tue, Nov 08, 2011 at 08:27:04AM +1100, Kathryn Andersen wrote: On Mon, Nov 07, 2011 at 07:43:18PM +, Thomas Adam wrote: I do not have the time anymore to devote to this project. As such, I will still be providing ad-hoc bug-fixes, and general advice, but that's about all. I will not be working on any major features. Thank you Thomas, for all your hard and thorough work. My recent Move modifications to honour EwmhBaseStruts will make your FvwmLayout module easier to work with -- remind me soon, I have patches for it. It would be nice if this was completely rewritten in C and submitted as a replacement for FvwmRearrange, you know. The only thing you're missing is per-screen EwmhBaseStrut settings, which I've patches for kicking about on Github somewhere. I'll see if I can't make those more agreeable at some point. -- Thomas Adam
Re: FVWM: Stepping down from next year.
On Mon, Nov 07, 2011 at 09:33:00PM +, Gerard Lally wrote: A shame, but understandable. How many people are still actively involved in FVWM? Do you see the project surviving, perhaps even More than are vocal, but realistically Dan Espen and myself are it, and have been for well over a year. But remember that FVWM has people with commit-bit access who are around (i.e., not dead) but busy elsewhere, As for where I see FVWM in ten years... I see it dead in the water, not because it's not maintained -- as Dan has mentioned, it's pretty complete -- I mean more it will have been superseded by other more hippier programs. But programs develop niches, so who knows -- heck, just look at the OpenCDE project to realise there's people still wanting an actual clone of CDE, despite FVWM being able to emulate that enough. But it seems people don't want to go to the trouble of sourcing motif-backed applications. thriving, ten years from now? I consider projects like FVWM a lifeline for those of us who deplore what is going on in the Linux world (pulseaudio, systemd, Unity, Gnome 3, KDE 4, need I say more?). I personally am slowly moving everything - desktop included - over to NetBSD, away from the mess that Linux is becoming. Even XFCE is increasingly held captive by decisions taken without a view to the other Unix derivatives like the *BSDs. I did that a good three years ago, got fed up of the NetBSD mentality, and told them all to fuck off. Then I moved to OpenBSD and never looked back. -- Thomas Adam -- Deep in my heart I wish I was wrong. But deep in my heart I know I am not. -- Morrissey (Girl Least Likely To -- off of Viva Hate.)
FVWM: Stepping down from next year.
Hello all, This is a very quick note to let you all know that as of next year I will be stepping down as the maintainer of FVWM -- largely this role is a very loose one, but since I seem to be the most vocal and more visibally active developer here, I felt it wise to mention this just in case people wonder where I've gone. I do not have the time anymore to devote to this project. As such, I will still be providing ad-hoc bug-fixes, and general advice, but that's about all. I will not be working on any major features. My last batch of work on this will be to complete module deprecation, even if that's stub code. Dominik Vogt and I are completing work on the Git conversion still, which I am pleased about. These will be done by early next year. As soon as that happens, I shall release FVWM 2.6.4 -- after that, well, that's someone else's problem. :) Thanks all. It's been fun. :) -- Thomas Adam -- Deep in my heart I wish I was wrong. But deep in my heart I know I am not. -- Morrissey (Girl Least Likely To -- off of Viva Hate.)
Re: FVWM: Stepping down from next year.
On Mon, Nov 07, 2011 at 07:43:18PM +, Thomas Adam wrote: I do not have the time anymore to devote to this project. As such, I will still be providing ad-hoc bug-fixes, and general advice, but that's about all. I will not be working on any major features. Thank you Thomas, for all your hard and thorough work. We'll miss you. My last batch of work on this will be to complete module deprecation, even if that's stub code. Dominik Vogt and I are completing work on the Git conversion still, which I am pleased about. Hooray for Git! Let's hope that makes it easier for more people to contribute. K.A. -- _--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen http://www.katspace.org / \| \_.--.*/| http://kerravonsen.dreamwidth.org/ v | http://kerravonsen.redbubble.com/ | Melbourne - Victoria - Australia - Southern Hemisphere Maranatha! | - Earth - Sol - Milky Way Galaxy - Universe
Re: FVWM: Stepping down from next year.
Thomas Adam tho...@fvwm.org writes: Hello all, This is a very quick note to let you all know that as of next year I will be stepping down as the maintainer of FVWM -- largely this role is a very loose one, but since I seem to be the most vocal and more visibally active developer here, I felt it wise to mention this just in case people wonder where I've gone. I do not have the time anymore to devote to this project. As such, I will still be providing ad-hoc bug-fixes, and general advice, but that's about all. I will not be working on any major features. My last batch of work on this will be to complete module deprecation, even if that's stub code. Dominik Vogt and I are completing work on the Git conversion still, which I am pleased about. These will be done by early next year. As soon as that happens, I shall release FVWM 2.6.4 -- after that, well, that's someone else's problem. :) Thanks all. It's been fun. :) This is a thankless job and you are far from the first person to feel burnt out. (I'm guessing.) For my purposes, Fvwm was feature complete after the iconboxes, left menus and window minimizing animation made their appearance. I hope that we'll always have enough interested users to at least keep what's currently working up to date. Thanks for all your efforts. -- Dan Espen
Re: FVWM: Stepping down from next year.
Von: des...@verizon.net Gesendet: 07.11.2011 23:24:00 Having a single maintainer is too much of a burden. I've always been surprised that anyone would take on that role. Yes, that's probably true. I think Thomas is at the end of his power. The permanent attacks against him the last time weren't very cooperative at all ... If someone comes to this list with a great new idea and convinces the few of us that hang around that he's qualified he'll get commit privileges and Fvwm get new capabilities. A great new idea ... there are many ideas but for these ideas we need people who are willing to show them with config examples and accept constructive reviews. We need also a good default config for new users to show what is possible with Fvwm. We started months ago with them. I created a config based on that ideas but it must be tested and need feedback from the community. It's pretty hard to work up any ambition when Fvwm already does everything a person wants. (It does for me.) For me too, but we need more than comments what is bad and should change ... Hopefully we have the mechanisms in place for this project to carry on to serve that niche of users that want total control and don't need GUI's to write configuration files. Thomas started with his wiki for that but it should extend to get a rich pool of information around of Fvwm. Thomas -- What is the exact difference between a 'terminal', a 'shell', a 'tty' and a 'console'? A terminal is at the end of an electric wire, a shell is the home of a turtle, tty is a strange abbreviation and a console is a kind of cabinet. -- Gilles ___ SMS schreiben mit WEB.DE FreeMail - einfach, schnell und kostenguenstig. Jetzt gleich testen! http://f.web.de/?mc=021192
Re: FVWM: Stepping down from next year.
Having a single maintainer is too much of a burden. I've always been surprised that anyone would take on that role. Yes, that's probably true. I think Thomas is at the end of his power. The permanent attacks against him the last time weren't very cooperative at all ... Wait a moment: surely Thomas' decision isn't influenced by a few (one?), at best, misguided individuals' attempts to, at best, help in a bad way? Thomas: please reassure us this is the case?! (Or let us protect you from such trivial undermining so you can carry on!) In fact, if we all call ``encore'' -- would you stay a little longer? ;-)
Re: FVWM: Stepping down from next year.
Hi Thomas, Hello all, This is a very quick note to let you all know that as of next year I will be stepping down as the maintainer of FVWM -- largely this role is a very loose one, but since I seem to be the most vocal and more visibally active developer here, I felt it wise to mention this just in case people wonder where I've gone. Its a very great pitty that you will step down your maintainer role :s But I understand it ... the last time was not very beneficial for you at many points ... I do not have the time anymore to devote to this project. As such, I will still be providing ad-hoc bug-fixes, and general advice, but that's about all. I will not be working on any major features. What is/are your new focal point(s) whether you would say it? Would you be in some cases a mentor to advocate new Fvwm developers? My last batch of work on this will be to complete module deprecation, even if that's stub code. Dominik Vogt and I are completing work on the Git conversion still, which I am pleased about. Moving from CVS to GIT ... what should it deliver if Fvwm will go in a pure maintaining mode? These will be done by early next year. As soon as that happens, I shall release FVWM 2.6.4 -- after that, well, that's someone else's problem. :) Damned ... and what about Fvwm forum? Will you also stop working on that field, too? Thanks all. It's been fun. :) No, it's not funny ... it's a tragedy ... Fvwm will loose a big part of it's heart ;( What about the other developers? Dominik, Dan, Jason, ... ? Will the project vanish into thin air? I can't believe it ... Thomas aka TF -- What is the exact difference between a 'terminal', a 'shell', a 'tty' and a 'console'? A terminal is at the end of an electric wire, a shell is the home of a turtle, tty is a strange abbreviation and a console is a kind of cabinet. -- Gilles ___ SMS schreiben mit WEB.DE FreeMail - einfach, schnell und kostenguenstig. Jetzt gleich testen! http://f.web.de/?mc=021192
Re: FVWM: Stepping down from next year.
Thomas Funk t.f...@web.de writes: Thanks all. It's been fun. :) No, it's not funny ... it's a tragedy ... Fvwm will loose a big part of it's heart ;( What about the other developers? Dominik, Dan, Jason, ... ? Will the project vanish into thin air? I can't believe it ... Years ago we decided that fvwm workers would run the project. For a long time we had 4 or 5 people committing changes every few days. Since then it's been more of a one person at a time situation. Having a single maintainer is too much of a burden. I've always been surprised that anyone would take on that role. If someone comes to this list with a great new idea and convinces the few of us that hang around that he's qualified he'll get commit privileges and Fvwm get new capabilities. It's pretty hard to work up any ambition when Fvwm already does everything a person wants. (It does for me.) Hopefully we have the mechanisms in place for this project to carry on to serve that niche of users that want total control and don't need GUI's to write configuration files. -- Dan Espen
Re: FVWM: Stepping down from next year.
On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 3:43 AM, Thomas Adam tho...@fvwm.org wrote: Hello all, This is a very quick note to let you all know that as of next year I will be stepping down as the maintainer of FVWM -- largely this role is a very loose one, but since I seem to be the most vocal and more visibally active developer here, I felt it wise to mention this just in case people wonder where I've gone. as a beginner, i had learnt from you a lot in a few days after i came here. the only thing i could do is to express my deepest thanks. and a best wish. -- Liu An Institution of modern physics, Shanghai, China
