Re: BoB
On Wed, 6 Mar 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually, Stephen is my dark horse tip to win the tournament. Why? This is Turner's 3rd Golf Tournament, and he's only lost twice. Tee hee. Still, this morning's leaderboard makes me feel a bit out of my depth. I was only 2 strokes behind last night, but now Ton's shot an eagle and a couple of birdies to leave me 6 off the pace. I might be worth a punt at 50-1 if you fancy backing an outsider, but don't accept any shorter odds. :-) -- Stephen Turner, Cambridge, UKhttp://homepage.ntlworld.com/adelie/stephen/ This is Henman's 8th Wimbledon, and he's only lost 7 matches. BBC, 2/Jul/01
Re: is perl a reporting tool ?
On Wed, Mar 06, 2002 at 12:06:14PM -0500, Selector, Lev Y ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Hello, I searched for OLAP on perl.com and CPAN (and perl olap on Google) - got no entries. Also there is nothing on data warehousing in the perl world. Am I missing something? I thought Perl is supposed to be a Practical Extraction and Reporting Language Today in corporate world people use all kinds of specialized software for reporting. Here are some major players: Business Objects, Cognos, Actuate, Brio Software, Crystal Decisions, MicroStrategy, Microsoft, Oracle, IBM. Some vendors have designed their own programming languages for this purpose. For example, Microsoft Analysis Services (part of MS SQL server) is taking the market recently. They have an elegant language (MDX) for multi-dimensional queries - similar to SQL, but designed to handle multidimensional objects - see the book Microsoft Olap Solutions (actually Microsoft bought a bunch of Israeli Jews with their development on that). I thought it would be nice to be able to do OLAP (multi-dimensional and hierarchical reporting) in Perl. Do you know of any development in this direction? I don't know of any work going on in this specific area, but I wouldn't be surprised if you could put something together out of already existing components from CPAN. Could you tell me a bit more about what you'd like to be able to do. I'm very interested in this idea. Dave... -- Don't dream it... be it
Re: TPR course Beginner vs. Veteran
Le Mercredi 6 Mars 2002 15:55, Chris Dolan a écrit : [...] However, I should say that the more I read the fwp archives, the more intimidated I get! I didn't realize how much I had handicapped myself by not upgrading perl5.6.0-5.6.1!!! :-) Chris I realize how much I had handicapped myself entering veteran's leaderboard (45th instead of 20th). And: I realize how much I'm handicapped on the road to walk from 80.52 to 53.58. :-) Jean-Pierre
Re: is perl a reporting tool ?
On Wed, Mar 06, 2002 at 12:06:14PM -0500, Selector, Lev Y wrote: Hello, I searched for OLAP on perl.com and CPAN (and perl olap on Google) - got no entries. Also there is nothing on data warehousing in the perl world. Am I missing something? No, but I think we are. What's OLAP? I thought Perl is supposed to be a Practical Extraction and Reporting Language Practical is often shorthand for if there's sufficient call for it, somebody will write a module to do it, even if that somebody is you :) Some vendors have designed their own programming languages for this purpose. For example, Microsoft Analysis Services (part of MS SQL server) is taking the market recently. They have an elegant language (MDX) for multi-dimensional queries - similar to SQL, but designed to handle multidimensional objects - If you're looking for easy ways to store complex objects consider Tangram, Alzabo, Class::DBI... The Perl Object Oriented Persistence group might prove helpful. http://poop.sourceforge.net/ see the book Microsoft Olap Solutions (actually Microsoft bought a bunch of Israeli Jews with their development on that). OLAP: Now with 50% more chutzpah! :) I thought it would be nice to be able to do OLAP (multi-dimensional and hierarchical reporting) in Perl. Do you know of any development in this direction? -- Michael G. Schwern [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.pobox.com/~schwern/ Perl Quality Assurance [EMAIL PROTECTED] Kwalitee Is Job One Instant Cross-Platform CGI Programming in Visual Perl 5 with Object Oriented Design in 7 Days Unleashed for Dummies Special Edition with Exclusive Java Chapters for Developers. Year 2000 compliant, Enterprise edition and ISO9000- certified. A Nutshell Handbook Designed For Windows 95/98/NT with a forward by Larry Bud Melman. Interactive Multimedia CDROM included. 3rd revised editon, covers Perl5.6. Of course, it will be refered to by its simple acronym: ICPCGIPiVP5wOODi7DU4DSEwEJC4DY2KCEedISO9000-cNHD4W9598NTLBMIMCDROM3edP5.6
Re: rethinking printf
Rich == Rich Morin [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Rich This seems pretty ugly to me (Randal didn't like it much either :-) Yup. -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 [EMAIL PROTECTED] URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/ Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!
Re: rethinking printf
On Wed, Mar 06, 2002 at 09:45:18AM -0800, Rich Morin wrote:
He
suggested, when asked, that folks could put in newlines as follows:
'yada yada yada \qq{\n}'
I meant to add this in last time: There is also the option of having an
additional function that adds the newline in, e.g. WriteLine() v.
Write() as seen in many other languages (Pascal et al, Java, etc). I've
never really liked this but on the other hand, it seems the lesser of
two evils.
\qq{\n} as a newline strikes me as a joke. Was it profferred in jest?
Paul
--
Paul Makepeace ... http://paulm.com/
If we could fly to the moon, then monkies would be green.
-- http://paulm.com/toys/surrealism/
Re: rethinking printf
BC == Bernie Cosell [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
cced perl6-language
BC I wonder if the solution is to look at it the other way: that you
BC have to do something to get interpolation to happen. If we look
BC at it from the old adage of making the more common things simpler,
BC at least in my code I very rarely interpolate arrays [and I
BC suspect I'd even LESS often interpolate hashes], I wouldn't mind
BC the syntax going the other way -- maybe @ never interpolates and
BC you need to do \@ to make interpolation happen [and then
BC similarly with '%']... This is also simlar to the logic behind
BC Perl's reversing the longstanding unix convention WRT to chars
BC like '(' in REs.
that is a good idea. the @() and $() things will interplate any
expressions into strings. so use a method on the hash to get a string
out and wrap it in $().
printf %d hash is $(%foo.string), $bar ;
no ambiguity and no confusion. how often will you need to interpolate a
hash? so make it more cumbersome as it is a rare thing. that is larry's
credo from way back. breaking % in a s/printf format is not good as that
is the very common thing to do.
uri
--
Uri Guttman -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.stemsystems.com
-- Stem is an Open Source Network Development Toolkit and Application Suite -
- Stem and Perl Development, Systems Architecture, Design and Coding
Search or Offer Perl Jobs http://jobs.perl.org
Re: rethinking printf
On Wed, 6 Mar 2002 17:57:07 -0500, Uri Guttman wrote:
how often will you need to interpolate a hash?
A whole hash: quite rarely. A hash item: a LOT. Don't forget that
$foo{BAR} will now become %foo{BAR}
--
Bart.
RE: rethinking printf
Uri Guttman:
# printf %d hash is $(%foo.string), $bar ;
#
# no ambiguity and no confusion. how often will you need to
# interpolate a
# hash?
As others have pointed out, %foo{BAR} has to work. But I have another
question for you: what's wrong with
sprintf '%d hash is %s', $bar, %foo;
? After all, interpolating into an sprintf is a bit dangerous anyway
(what if %foo=('%d' = '')?), and you avoid special cases.
--Brent Dax [EMAIL PROTECTED]
@roles=map {Parrot $_} qw(embedding regexen Configure)
#define private public
--Spotted in a C++ program just before a #include
Re: rethinking printf
In article p05100339b8abfb25cfdf@[192.168.254.205], Rich Morin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Note that I'm suggesting a new function name because printf has a little-used capability that could conflict with my proposed syntax: The format string is reused as often as necessary to satisfy the arguments. Where did you get that? Not true for Perl or C.
Re: rethinking printf
BD == Brent Dax [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
BD Uri Guttman:
BD # printf %d hash is $(%foo.string), $bar ;
BD #
BD # no ambiguity and no confusion. how often will you need to
BD # interpolate a
BD # hash?
BD As others have pointed out, %foo{BAR} has to work. But I have another
BD question for you: what's wrong with
BD sprintf '%d hash is %s', $bar, %foo;
that is fine but if you want the format string to use %foo{bar} then you
need double quotes. the problem is deciding when to allow that and to
not make %s become broken. i proposed a possible solution in my previous
post. maybe it won't fall on deaf ears. :)
BD ? After all, interpolating into an sprintf is a bit dangerous anyway
BD (what if %foo=('%d' = '')?), and you avoid special cases.
that is another point. not allowing a complete hash to interpolate. but
what defines that? what if you wanted %s{bar} and that was a format and
not a hash and in a double quoted string? my proposal handles that well
with no major noise factors. qn would be just like qq but not allow any
direct hash interpolations (%foo or %foo{bar}). you can always get those
with $() if needed. this solves the common case with a minimal of noise
and the uncommon case has a simple out of using $(). no need for wacko
ways to put in \n. it is double quotish in all ways but one and mainly
to be used for printf format strings.
uri
--
Uri Guttman -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.stemsystems.com
-- Stem is an Open Source Network Development Toolkit and Application Suite -
- Stem and Perl Development, Systems Architecture, Design and Coding
Search or Offer Perl Jobs http://jobs.perl.org
Re: rethinking printf
At 5:27 PM -0800 3/6/02, Yitzchak Scott-Thoennes wrote: The format string is reused as often as necessary to satisfy the arguments. Where did you get that? Not true for Perl or C. Apparently, when I did a man printf, I got the one in FreeBSD's Section 1: PRINTF(1) FreeBSD General Commands Manual PRINTF(1) NAME printf - formatted output SYNOPSIS printf format [arguments ...] DESCRIPTION Printf formats and prints its arguments, after the first, under control of the format. The format is a character string which contains three types of objects: plain characters, which are simply copied to standard output, character escape sequences which are converted and copied to the standard output, and format specifications, each of which causes printing of the next successive argument. The arguments after the first are treated as strings if the corresponding format is either c or s; otherwise it is evaluated as a C constant, with the following extensions: o A leading plus or minus sign is allowed. o If the leading character is a single or double quote, or not a digit, plus, or minus sign, the value is the ASCII code of the next character. The format string is reused as often as necessary to satisfy the arguments. Any extra format specifications are evaluated with zero or the null string. ... I also think Fortran FORMAT statements acted this way, but it's been far too long for me to remember for sure... In any case, it seems that it isn't a problem... -r -- email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; phone: +1 650-873-7841 http://www.cfcl.com/rdm- my home page, resume, etc. http://www.cfcl.com/Meta - The FreeBSD Browser, Meta Project, etc. http://www.ptf.com/dossier - Prime Time Freeware's DOSSIER series http://www.ptf.com/tdc - Prime Time Freeware's Darwin Collection
Re: rethinking printf
At 11:24 PM -0500 3/6/02, Uri Guttman wrote:
qn would be just like qq but not allow any
direct hash interpolations (%foo or %foo{bar}). you can always get those
with $() if needed. this solves the common case with a minimal of noise
and the uncommon case has a simple out of using $(). no need for wacko
ways to put in \n. it is double quotish in all ways but one and mainly
to be used for printf format strings.
I also like this because it allows a typical format string to be converted
merely by adding a two-character prefix:
printf(The value is %7.2f\n, $foo);
---
printf(qnThe value is %7.2f\n, $foo);
-r
--
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; phone: +1 650-873-7841
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm- my home page, resume, etc.
http://www.cfcl.com/Meta - The FreeBSD Browser, Meta Project, etc.
http://www.ptf.com/dossier - Prime Time Freeware's DOSSIER series
http://www.ptf.com/tdc - Prime Time Freeware's Darwin Collection
Re: rethinking printf
On Wed, Mar 06, 2002 at 11:24:57PM -0500, Uri Guttman wrote:
that is another point. not allowing a complete hash to interpolate. but
what defines that? what if you wanted %s{bar} and that was a format and
not a hash and in a double quoted string? my proposal handles that well
with no major noise factors. qn would be just like qq but not allow any
direct hash interpolations (%foo or %foo{bar}). you can always get those
with $() if needed. this solves the common case with a minimal of noise
and the uncommon case has a simple out of using $(). no need for wacko
ways to put in \n. it is double quotish in all ways but one and mainly
to be used for printf format strings.
why not qf for format strings then?
s/(printf)/\1 qf/g
Re: rethinking printf
On Wed, Mar 06, 2002 at 08:56:18PM -0800, Yitzchak Scott-Thoennes wrote:
Apparently, when I did a man printf, I got the one in FreeBSD's Section 1:
The format string is reused as often as necessary to satisfy the
arguments. Any extra format specifications are evaluated with zero or
the null string.
Thats funky.
this is section *1* manual, for commands, right?
It's possible that printf *program* does that, but that's really weird.
(yes, indeed: printf(1) FreeBSD 3.5, Linux 2.2.14, and SunOS 5.8 aka Solaris 8
are
documented and work this way.)
POSIX (IEEE 1003.1-2001) says:
If the format is exhausted while arguments remain, the excess
arguments shall be evaluated but are otherwise ignored.
And C99 (ISO 9899-1999 section 7.19.6.1) says:
If the format is exhausted while arguments remain, the excess
arguments are evaluated (as always) but are otherwise ignored.
Does it in fact reuse the format on your system?
If one remembers how C argument passing convention works on assembly level (and
different from Pascal conversion for example), it is that arguments are pushed
to stack by caller, last to first, then subroutine is called, and stack popped
(possibly
delayed or combined with another stack operation down the road.) Therefore,
it is impossible for called function to know number of arguments it has passed.
(Unless printf() is implemented in the language compiler.)
For example, the following program (pardon terse style):
#include stdio.h
#define NARGS 10
int main() {
int i; int n[NARGS];
for (i = 0; i NARGS; i++) { n[i] = i; }
printf(%d,\n, n[0], n[1], n[2], n[3]);
return 0;
}
produces the following output:
0,
and compiles to the following code, which does not pass 4 as number of
non-format arguments to printf at any way:
.file test-printf.c
.version01.01
gcc2_compiled.:
..section.rodata
..LC0:
.ascii %d,\12\0
..text
.p2align 2
..globl main
.typemain,function
main:
pushl %ebp
movl %esp,%ebp
subl $40,%esp
xorl %eax,%eax
.p2align 2,0x90
..L9:
movl %eax,-40(%ebp,%eax,4)
incl %eax
cmpl $9,%eax
jle .L9
pushl -28(%ebp)
pushl -32(%ebp)
pushl -36(%ebp)
pushl -40(%ebp)
pushl $.LC0
call printf
xorl %eax,%eax
leave
ret
..Lfe1:
.sizemain,.Lfe1-main
.ident GCC: (GNU) 2.7.2.3
Re: rethinking printf
Paul Makepeace [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
On Wed, Mar 06, 2002 at 09:45:18AM -0800, Rich Morin wrote:
He
suggested, when asked, that folks could put in newlines as follows:
'yada yada yada \qq{\n}'
I meant to add this in last time: There is also the option of having an
additional function that adds the newline in, e.g. WriteLine() v.
Write() as seen in many other languages (Pascal et al, Java, etc). I've
never really liked this but on the other hand, it seems the lesser of
two evils.
printf(%s\n %s\n%s\n, @haiku_line[0,1,2]);
--
Ariel Scolnicov|http://3w.compugen.co.il/~ariels
Compugen Ltd. |[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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