Re: gEDA-user: Reinventing the wheel
On 18/05/2011, Russell Shaw rjs...@netspace.net.au wrote: On 17/05/2011, John Dotyj...@noqsi.com wrote: On May 17, 2011, at 9:56 AM, Russell Shaw wrote: Most guis hide what they do. I believe in them showing the commands they send internally as a script would (or atleast have the option to show that) so the user can paste the commands into an external file if needed. I've done GUIs that wrap scripts, but it only works in very simple, shallow cases. An API that supports GUI well is very different from an API that supports scripting well. John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. http://www.noqsi.com/ j...@noqsi.com On 18/05/11 04:57, Eduardo Costa wrote: Hi guys, That's not true at all John. Have you ever heard/seen a program called Alias Wavefront Maya? It used to be from Silicon Graphics, but they sold it to Autodesk a couple of years ago. A program for 3D CGI which has quite an innovative popup menu system with something called hotboxes and cardinal menus (the one shown bellow). 200% productive, and much better than anyother existing/deployed nowadays: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/504/polygonquickmenunothingrx6.jpg/ and driven from MEL (sort of an intepreted c languaje they roled for the purpose of scripting such a huge program). Believe me, you wouldn't even think it is scripted because they didn't abuse of it, yet it lets such menu system be 10 times more powerful! I do share many of your points Russell, while I'm happy (still) using geda. It seems to me is going somewhere I don't really want to be in a future. I've got almost done a c-library I wrote implementing this menu systems for my own programs. Haven't looked at it for a time, but it could work with gtk or other toolkits as long as they allow low level event handling. Anyways, if you are really going for it, and are going to use old'good c, I'll be pleased to hear your thoughts and cooperate. Hi, I'm a gtk hater, and am open to new widget toolkit user interface paradigms, even if it means writing new widgets or toolkits from scratch (which i've done before). I found the useability of a 20yo unix box sch/pcb cad program far better in certain ways than current cad packages. It involved the left hand and an external multi-button puck device in most of the screen-panning operations, leading to much less mouse-finger fatigue. It made all the current Windows cad packages look like kiddies toys by comparison. Yes, with Maya you also need to have a hand on the keyboard and the other on the mouse. But Maya is a properly huge and complex sytem meant for 2D/3D compositing and animation. The good point on this sytem is that you can have as many menus as needed. They are extremely ligthweight in terms of memory and cpu costs, and can show up depending on current context, previous selected option (resembling a deeper submenu in a hierarchy), etc. There are many ways they can be employed without even the need for a keyboard at all, still boosting productivity by a factor of tens in respect of current windows-looking menu systems. As a big plus, they relieve the application from having to use valuable screen space to draw and maintain stupid toolbars with stupid icons. All you need is right-click somewhere, move the mouse a bit on the direction of your preferred option, and release: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeYyKkOOxIo In either case, I also have experience programming others than xlib and relevant toolkits. This menus that I propose/like do not have to be used if other methods are suitable or better. As long as we can have some good geda software that is not constantly going to be limited by ancient stuff, yet is not directly going to the evil hands of svg and similar crap and human/cpu-unfriendly formats just because windows users want to look at the files with their browsers, it's fine for me. In either case, whatever your 20 y/o software does can also be done nowadays with xlib, motif, opengl, a mixture of all three, or whatsoever. So, again, if you are at any time going to get hands on it, I'll be glad to help. Regards, ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Reinventing the wheel
Hi guys, That's not true at all John. Have you ever heard/seen a program called Alias Wavefront Maya? It used to be from Silicon Graphics, but they sold it to Autodesk a couple of years ago. A program for 3D CGI which has quite an innovative popup menu system with something called hotboxes and cardinal menus (the one shown bellow). 200% productive, and much better than anyother existing/deployed nowadays: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/504/polygonquickmenunothingrx6.jpg/ and driven from MEL (sort of an intepreted c languaje they roled for the purpose of scripting such a huge program). Believe me, you wouldn't even think it is scripted because they didn't abuse of it, yet it lets such menu system be 10 times more powerful! I do share many of your points Russell, while I'm happy (still) using geda. It seems to me is going somewhere I don't really want to be in a future. I've got almost done a c-library I wrote implementing this menu systems for my own programs. Haven't looked at it for a time, but it could work with gtk or other toolkits as long as they allow low level event handling. Anyways, if you are really going for it, and are going to use old'good c, I'll be pleased to hear your thoughts and cooperate. Regards, On 17/05/2011, John Doty j...@noqsi.com wrote: On May 17, 2011, at 9:56 AM, Russell Shaw wrote: Most guis hide what they do. I believe in them showing the commands they send internally as a script would (or atleast have the option to show that) so the user can paste the commands into an external file if needed. I've done GUIs that wrap scripts, but it only works in very simple, shallow cases. An API that supports GUI well is very different from an API that supports scripting well. John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. http://www.noqsi.com/ j...@noqsi.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Reinventing the wheel
That's a shot of it: http://imageshack.us/f/84/shoti.png/ It lacks a two cadinal pointers in the image, as I was testing don't remember what when I had stop it. I also forgot to say is done right on top of Xlib and uses XResources for font color, background and border color. No dependencies or whatsoever on thirdy-party libraries. Regards, On 17/05/2011, Eduardo Costa ecosta@gmail.com wrote: Hi guys, That's not true at all John. Have you ever heard/seen a program called Alias Wavefront Maya? It used to be from Silicon Graphics, but they sold it to Autodesk a couple of years ago. A program for 3D CGI which has quite an innovative popup menu system with something called hotboxes and cardinal menus (the one shown bellow). 200% productive, and much better than anyother existing/deployed nowadays: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/504/polygonquickmenunothingrx6.jpg/ and driven from MEL (sort of an intepreted c languaje they roled for the purpose of scripting such a huge program). Believe me, you wouldn't even think it is scripted because they didn't abuse of it, yet it lets such menu system be 10 times more powerful! I do share many of your points Russell, while I'm happy (still) using geda. It seems to me is going somewhere I don't really want to be in a future. I've got almost done a c-library I wrote implementing this menu systems for my own programs. Haven't looked at it for a time, but it could work with gtk or other toolkits as long as they allow low level event handling. Anyways, if you are really going for it, and are going to use old'good c, I'll be pleased to hear your thoughts and cooperate. Regards, On 17/05/2011, John Doty j...@noqsi.com wrote: On May 17, 2011, at 9:56 AM, Russell Shaw wrote: Most guis hide what they do. I believe in them showing the commands they send internally as a script would (or atleast have the option to show that) so the user can paste the commands into an external file if needed. I've done GUIs that wrap scripts, but it only works in very simple, shallow cases. An API that supports GUI well is very different from an API that supports scripting well. John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. http://www.noqsi.com/ j...@noqsi.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: RFC using SVG with semantic markup as an EDA format
My 2 cents. I use to convert pdf files to svg through Makefiles. I don't remember the app I use for it offhand but can look if anyone is interested (it's all free software, other than inkscape). I also usually produce schematics in pdf with logos, barcodes, and vital data (date, project, etc). I do this with Makefiles and plain tex. About the OT, I'm not an expert in svg, actually, I don't like any of the descendants of sgml, languages that I find completely stupid, and unreadable. I don't either know if svg would support 3d, which I find would be much of a propper boost for gEDA than anything else right now. Being able to render photo-realistic images of boards (thing that could even happen automatically throughout the process, with a simple rule on the makefile), would be just great. Also, I'm of the idea that relying on cairo more than neccesary is letting things go worse. While it's a very useful and nice piece of software, it makes eveything much slower. Hence, rather than going svg (for which I find no point at all--I you need svg, just convert you pdf to it, or open you pdf with inkscape), I'd concentrate efforts in modifications of current format, such that it allows 2d/3d description of footprints and containts or references some raster image (uv map), and in opengl for gschem and pcb. Regards, On 16/04/2011, Markus Hitter m...@jump-ing.de wrote: Am 11.04.2011 um 23:34 schrieb Peter Clifton: Inkscape. I don't think there is anything available which is remotely comparable which doesn't cost serious money. Scribus/ScribusNG. Better suited for desktop publishing and not so CorelDraw-like. But that's off topic :-) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dipl. Ing. (FH) Markus Hitter http://www.jump-ing.de/ ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gEDA Wikibook ?
On 26 December 2010 02:55, Mark Rages markra...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Dec 25, 2010 at 4:16 PM, John Coppens j...@jcoppens.com wrote: On Fri, 24 Dec 2010 16:20:03 +0100 kai-martin knaak k...@familieknaak.de wrote: It about finding authors. I'm not entirely sure about that. I think there would be persons that would be prepared to produce documents, if there were no necessity to wade through the source code to detect what has to be written about. If it will stop the bikeshedding here, I volunteer to translate a tutorial from crayon-on-napkin into LaTeX or DocBook or whatever. I believe that the author gets to choose the format, not the recipient. Regards, Mark markra...@gmail -- Mark Rages, Engineer Midwest Telecine LLC markra...@midwesttelecine.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user I know both, latex and tex. Never use latex even for structured documents (mostly invoices and commercial letters, in my case), but that's another story. In my opinion, while the idea of the wikibook is fine, it's gonna need of constant surveillance which in turn, means a pain in the ass for whoever is at charge. Ideally, all the needed documentation should come together with the software, and ideally, every developer commiting relevant changes, should also pay he's phrase or paragraph to the relevant part of the documentation sources. That way it's always in sync and doesn't become a major problem. As of which format to use, I'd say texinfo. It's easy to learn, has frontends for (at least) help writing documents with emacs (major mode), can be read from the terminal/emacs/vi, it's capable of giving output to html, ps, pdf, etc... I actually hate xml and sgml-alike formats, could never understand how such a stupid and redundant syntax could succeed. Regards, ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Guile/gschem problem
Hi guys,
I'm trying to compile the suite, but while it does so, I get this
infamous error when trying to start gschem:
[...@localhost]$ gschem
Backtrace:
In ice-9/boot-9.scm:
170: 4 [catch #t #catch-closure 82dd420 ...]
In unknown file:
?: 3 [catch-closure]
?: 2 [catch-closure wrong-type-arg {#f} ...]
In ice-9/boot-9.scm:
115: 1 [#procedure 81dc4d8 at ice-9/boot-9.scm:110:6 (thrown-k .
args) wrong-type-arg ...]
In unknown file:
?: 0 [catch-closure wrong-type-arg source-property ...]
ERROR: In procedure source-property:
ERROR: Wrong type argument in position 1 (expecting non-immediate): #f
A search didn't reveal any solution for me. I'm using git versions of
both, guile, geda, and pcb. Pcb works fine, though.
Can you guys tell me what versions of guile are you using with mainstream code?
Thanks,
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Re: gEDA-user: Guile/gschem problem
Thanks Peter for your quick answer!, No. Mine's a custom made distro (sort of `linux from scratch') I made years ago and have been updating by hand as it takes place, although I doubt that's the problem. I always run into troubles when trying to compile geda, related to the software itself (inter-dependencies, etc), though as time goes by things are looking much better. Regards, and thanks, On 18/12/2010, Peter TB Brett pe...@peter-b.co.uk wrote: On Saturday 18 December 2010 20:32:11 Eduardo Costa wrote: Hi guys, I'm trying to compile the suite, but while it does so, I get this infamous error when trying to start gschem: The suite currently only works with Guile 1.8.x. The last time I saw this error, it was when I tried compiling against Guile 1.9.x. Are you running Gentoo? Peter -- Peter Brett pe...@peter-b.co.uk Remote Sensing Research Group Surrey Space Centre ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
