Re: [PROPOSAL][VOTE] Subversion
On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 7:46 PM, Greg Stein gst...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 14:44, Greg Stein gst...@gmail.com wrote: All of the existing tags/branches of svn use a tweaked Apache Software License, v1.1, and generally have a file header claims a copyright by CollabNet. trunk is licensed under Apache License, v2, and has a file header as defined by the Apache Legal Affairs Committee, though with SVNCorp rather than ASF as the rights-holder to the distribution. After we import the codebase, we intend to tweak all of the file headers on trunk with s/SVNCorp/ASF/. To clarify this further: I believe that a release from *trunk* matches a standard Apache release. Well, at the moment, probably not quite. In particular, the incubator PMC is (in)famous for being very nitpicky (err, careful) about licensing stuff, it's an enlightening experience to go through I would say. You might want to have some fun with RAT: http://incubator.apache.org/rat/ It finds things like this: * No license header (some examples): ./subversion/bindings/swig/ruby/svn/core.rb ./tools/bdb/svnfs.py ./tools/client-side/server-version.py * GPL license header (I understand why, but, ugh): ./build/config.guess (and some 600 other complaints most of which are readily ignorable). The various tools and scripts that say stuff like released under the same license as subversion could probably do with a little attention as well. AIUI it from reading dist.sh those files would go into the released tarball (I didn't attempt to actually run dist.sh, that'd take me too much time to try and do properly). Oh and according to what I read the other day on legal-disc...@a.o the reference to the license details about the python bindings probably ought to belong in the LICENSE file not in the NOTICE file. On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 12:07 AM, Greg Stein gst...@gmail.com wrote: We're not ready for an alpha, but we could do an internal experimental release. I seem to recall seeing that in the docs. How about that? Sure :) ciao, Leo PS: +1 to start incubation obviously. The record is 2 weeks set for MerlinDeveloper back in 2003...you have 9 days left to try and beat it :) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: Incubator PMC/Board report for November 2009 (Aries Developers general@incubator.apache.org)
Kevan Miller wrote: Upayavira wrote: My question is, why is Clutch reporting the Aries developer list as being gene...@? Presumbaly this is something that the Aries developers should be fixing. So, if I'm interpreting clutch.py correctly, looks like the mailing lists are obtained from parsing http://incubator.apache.org/mail/ (which I didn't know existed). Reviewing podling setup process, I'm not sure when Aries should have been added or how... Can someone help? Clutch get hints from a podling's Status web page, then correlates with the incubator group mail archives. Perhaps when the Aries lists were set up, the mail archiving was not configured. -David - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [RESULT] Subversion is now an Apache Incubator podling (was: [PROPOSAL][VOTE] Subversion)
Greg Stein wrote: The proposal to make Subversion an Apache Incubator podling has PASSED. Later this weekend, I'll start sending out emails and requests to begin the process. I've also started on the Podling web documents. etc. There are also a number of issues for the dev list to decide upon, and followups from that. I did the first step for you ... added Subversion to the ReportingSchedule with December, January, February being your first three reporting months. Report in November if you want to. This gets your project into Clutch, which helps to manage the incubation process. http://incubator.apache.org/clutch.html#steps -David - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [RESULT] [VOTE] Accept Libcloud proposal for incubation
Paul Querna wrote: Vote passes with: ... I did the first step for you ... added Libcloud to the ReportingSchedule with December, January, February being your first three reporting months. Report in November if you want to. This gets your project into Clutch, which helps to manage the incubation process. http://incubator.apache.org/clutch.html#steps -David - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Insanity. Apache Incubator should be about education (was: [PROPOSAL][VOTE] Subversion)
The Apache Incubator is about EDUCATION. It is about TEACHING podlings how to work here at Apache. It is not about making podlings thoughtlessly follow checklists. It is about TEACHING them what are the important aspects of development at Apache. About SHOWING them each of the items to be aware of. It is not about blind adherence to rules and procedure without regard to the podling's experience. It is about LEARNING who the podling is, what they do, what they have done, and what they are capable of, and producing a TEACHING experience for that podling so that they can be an effective and proper project here at the ASF. --- I was thinking, hey. no problem. we can go a bit out of our way and produce a release tuned for the Incubator needs and made a suggestion. That didn't satisfy some people, so further requirements were thrown in. hmm, I thought, well... that shouldn't be too much more of a burden. And then I received Craig's email below, and it brought me back to sanity. I had been forced off the path, and now realize just how crazy it is. On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 20:19, Craig L Russell craig.russ...@sun.com wrote: ... As I thought I said earlier, *any* release that has proper Apache packaging, licensing, and notices is fine with me. We've had this discussion in the incubator before, for similar reasons, and I think there is consensus that a formal review of a podling release is a reasonable gate for graduation. No one needs to believe that the release is stable, tested, reliable, etc.; it just needs to be reviewed. Please let me translate: ANY release is fine, even if that release DOES NOT satisfy the project's ESTABLISHED LEVELS OF QUALITY. Shoot. All we want is *something*. Oh, and since it has completely inferior quality, it doesn't even have to be distributed! See how easy that is! Oh, never mind, that if we don't put it into the regular distribution channels, and don't make the regular announcements, then YOU'RE NOT DOING A REAL APACHE RELEASE. Nope. No way. The Subversion developers have years of experience releasing code here at Apache. Personally, I've been involved in releases of httpd and apr for the past ELEVEN years. Then we can talk about the additional years/decades of experience brought by Sander, Justin and DLR. Oh, and did I mention that Garrett was the VP of APR? That he was on the hook for making releases here at Apache? If a relatively new committer on the APR project wanted to make a release, then they would get handheld by the old-timers. They would make mistakes, but those would be caught before final release. That newbie does not come here and subject themselves to the oversight of the Incubator PMC. They are subject to the APR PMC itself. It makes no sense to apply hand-holding to a project that already has old-timers. Forget the hand-holding, and TEACH the arriving project about the overall guidelines. Point them at the ASF's release guidelines, maybe note where there are differences from the existing guidelines, and then let the PMC apply the correct oversight. If there are no old-timers, or if the project wants to make a release *while* in the Incubator? Then sure... apply the release guidelines. But applying the thumbscrews now is no indicator of future compliance. At the ASF, we make the PMCs responsible. *LET* them be responsible. The suggestion of a sub-par release, that should be hidden from the public is just ridiculous on the face of it. It teaches the incoming podling several things: * there are people who follow rules rather than solving a problem * you will want to route around those people, which means politicking * satisfying a checklist is more important than teaching I don't want to see those principles taught to Subversion. I don't want to see those taught to ANY podling. The Incubator PMC is here to TEACH podlings. Stop and think before attempting to apply rules and procedures. -g - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [RESULT] Subversion is now an Apache Incubator podling (was: [PROPOSAL][VOTE] Subversion)
On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 20:07, David Crossley cross...@apache.org wrote: Greg Stein wrote: The proposal to make Subversion an Apache Incubator podling has PASSED. Later this weekend, I'll start sending out emails and requests to begin the process. I've also started on the Podling web documents. etc. There are also a number of issues for the dev list to decide upon, and followups from that. I did the first step for you ... added Subversion to the ReportingSchedule with December, January, February being your first three reporting months. Report in November if you want to. This gets your project into Clutch, which helps to manage the incubation process. http://incubator.apache.org/clutch.html#steps Thanks! (and yes, I do intend to report in November; tho a week before may be stale ;-) ) Was just about to submit some of the initial site stuffs. Cheers, -g - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [REQUEST] Incubation for HISE
I did the first step for you ... added HISE to the ReportingSchedule with December, January, February being your first three reporting months. Report in November if you want to. This gets your project into Clutch, which helps to manage the incubation process. http://incubator.apache.org/clutch.html#steps -David - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [RESULT] Subversion is now an Apache Incubator podling (was: [PROPOSAL][VOTE] Subversion)
Greg Stein wrote: David Crossley wrote: I did the first step for you ... added Subversion to the ReportingSchedule with December, January, February being your first three reporting months. Report in November if you want to. This gets your project into Clutch, which helps to manage the incubation process. http://incubator.apache.org/clutch.html#steps Thanks! (and yes, I do intend to report in November; tho a week before may be stale ;-) ) Great. I hoped that you would. So please modify: http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/ReportingSchedule http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/November2009 -David Was just about to submit some of the initial site stuffs. Cheers, -g - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [PROPOSAL][VOTE] Subversion
On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 7:39 AM, Leo Simons m...@leosimons.com wrote: PS: +1 to start incubation obviously. The record is 2 weeks set for MerlinDeveloper back in 2003...you have 9 days left to try and beat it That is kind of incorrect. MerlinDeveloper went through Incubation, in what we today call IP Clearance, i.e. 'code import with a single developer', so the comparison is not accurate. Either way, I am very happy to see Greg being as patient as he is. Kudos! Having a release process that is more stringent than ASF's norm, managing a high rate of releases, having all the experience of ~15 years in Apache releases, and then getting lectured by Incubator Process Riders can't feel very constructive. Some people seem to forget that ASF releases are not flawless (since it is software it is almost by definition, it seems), neither code-wise nor legally. The real value of ASF is that we try out best, and will take corrective action in case we find a problem. But so does many other communities. And IMHO, when we are dealing with a community that has a user base, equal to or greater than the largest of our own projects (my guess is that only Httpd and indirectly therefor APR) has more users than Subversion, then we need to adjust our behavior to accommodate the special needs that exists; frequent releases, in fact a cornerstone in our amibitions; Release Early, Release Often. Subversion has made (if I count correctly, skipping 1.0.x) made 32 releases in a bit more than 4 years, shall we say 4-6 weeks per release, or possibly about the same time it takes us to approve a release... :-( If anything, I think we (the Incubator) have something to learn from these projects, more than the other way around. So, get off your high horses and start thinking again... I am ashamed of us... Cheers -- Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer http://www.qi4j.org - New Energy for Java I live here; http://tinyurl.com/2qq9er I work here; http://tinyurl.com/2ymelc I relax here; http://tinyurl.com/2cgsug - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: Insanity. Apache Incubator should be about education (was: [PROPOSAL][VOTE] Subversion)
On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 9:25 AM, Greg Stein gst...@gmail.com wrote: snip content=well said slammer / The Incubator PMC is here to TEACH podlings. Stop and think before attempting to apply rules and procedures. Amen, Amin, Quod erat demonstrandum, So be it. or your own favorite conclusion clause... Let the flames soar!!! Cheers -- Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer http://www.qi4j.org - New Energy for Java I live here; http://tinyurl.com/2qq9er I work here; http://tinyurl.com/2ymelc I relax here; http://tinyurl.com/2cgsug - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [REQUEST] Incubation for HISE
Thanks David, I was just going to start creating the podling. Matthieu On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 5:39 PM, David Crossley cross...@apache.org wrote: I did the first step for you ... added HISE to the ReportingSchedule with December, January, February being your first three reporting months. Report in November if you want to. This gets your project into Clutch, which helps to manage the incubation process. http://incubator.apache.org/clutch.html#steps -David - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
