[gentoo-user] [OT] Re: Weird (?) permission problem...
On Thursday 16 December 2010 07:24:27 Alan McKinnon wrote: Apparently, though unproven, at 03:33 on Thursday 16 December 2010, Peter Humphrey did opine thusly: On Thursday 16 December 2010 01:01:27 walt wrote: Every new generation of unix users *must* read it. I get very tired of people telling me what to do. Then don't read it but where else are you going to get the information from? I don't object to what Walt said, just the way he said it. In this country we've had a long spell of a government bent on regulating every detail of our lives. Nowadays even the road signs tell me what to do, instead of what to expect. In fact it's worse than that - they've even started telling me what to think! During my time in Minneapolis 20 years ago I was nostalgic about the freedom from petty restrictions back home. That's all changed now. -- Rgds Peter. Linux Counter 5290, 1994-04-23.
[gentoo-user] possible udev problem?
Hello ! I have a problem, some days ago with the /dev directory. Some or all blocking devices despaired like /dev/vg/ /dev/loop/ /dev/sda and some others also. After a reboot I see that my server couldn't boot in, couse it try to find the root filesystem from /dev/vg/root (using lvm) At the boot process when I see that Activating mdev, I see that the logical volume groups found ok, so after I rewrite the fstab to /dev/mapper/vg-root I can boot in. But also couldn't see /dev/sda and others. When I use this command udevadm test /sys/block/sda/sda1 then it appears at under /dev/sda1 , this also true for the loop device ram devices and others. I use kernel 2.6.32-xen-r1 , and sys-fs/udev-151-r4. any help will be appreciated.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Questions about SATA and hot plugging.
On Thursday 16 December 2010 09:31:34 Alan McKinnon wrote: Apparently, though unproven, at 23:46 on Wednesday 15 December 2010, Mark Knecht did opine thusly: On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 1:16 PM, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: Apparently, though unproven, at 23:02 on Wednesday 15 December 2010, Volker Armin Hemmann did opine thusly: and where do you get that internal ports can't do hotplug? He never said that. Here's what he did say: 1) Internal SATA drives are at the end of a single cable and don't require hot-plugging logic be built into the SATA port driver on the SATA controller because they are always powered up. (They are inside the case) don't require != can't do Thank you Alan. You're welcome. This raises an interesting question - hotplugging isn't mandated but it is implemented widely. How widespread is it? Eg can we reasonably assume a recent motherboard probably does support it? I thinking of USB daisy chaining - it's possible but hardly ever used, so it might as well not even be in the spec at all again, the hardware to hotplug is built into every sata connector. What is left is the controller not getting confused and the driver. AHCI as a standard says yes to hoplugging. So as long as you use a AHCI compliant sata controller you can hotplug.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Questions about SATA and hot plugging.
On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 7:29 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann volkerar...@googlemail.com wrote: SNIP again, the hardware to hotplug is built into every sata connector. What is left is the controller not getting confused and the driver. Every SATA connector? External connectors yes. Internal connectors no. AHCI as a standard says yes to hoplugging. So as long as you use a AHCI compliant sata controller you can hotplug. Interested readers should be _VERY_ careful about listening to previous advice. The major difference between the internal and external SATA cables connectors, a ***particularly*** important part of hotplugging, is that the external connector ensures that ground is connected before the signals. This ensures that in the case of static electricity the drive becomes grounded to the computer which is done to eliminate ESD (electro static discharge) events which will damage either the drive or the controller. (Depending n which is charged.) If you are using an internal power supply and have drive power already attached when you hotplug an internal cable then likely you will be just fine. If, on the other hand, you have a SATA drive sitting on a bench using a separate power supply then hotplugging with an internal cable is not recommended. Hope this helps, Mark
Re: [gentoo-user] udev: renaming eth0 to eth1 ???
On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 11:39 AM, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: The reason I know this, I have three ethernet cards on my rig. I replaced one of them and it was a mess. They were laid out as 2, 3 then 1 and it took me a while to figure out which is which. I deleted the rules file and restarted udev and the first one was 1 and so on. Because of situations like yours I think it's better to suggest editing the file to change/delete the affected devices rather than suggesting to delete the whole thing (though that may depend on the user's skill level). Maybe there are other nics in the machine that are fine and don't need to be changed, maybe they will auto-detect in a different order than before, perhaps they've been moved around slots, and blowing away the whole config might lead to other confusion later on when eth0 is fixed but now eth1 and eth2 have been reversed, or whatever. But I am a pessimist. :)
Re: [gentoo-user] udev: renaming eth0 to eth1 ???
Paul Hartman wrote: On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 11:39 AM, Dalerdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: The reason I know this, I have three ethernet cards on my rig. I replaced one of them and it was a mess. They were laid out as 2, 3 then 1 and it took me a while to figure out which is which. I deleted the rules file and restarted udev and the first one was 1 and so on. Because of situations like yours I think it's better to suggest editing the file to change/delete the affected devices rather than suggesting to delete the whole thing (though that may depend on the user's skill level). Maybe there are other nics in the machine that are fine and don't need to be changed, maybe they will auto-detect in a different order than before, perhaps they've been moved around slots, and blowing away the whole config might lead to other confusion later on when eth0 is fixed but now eth1 and eth2 have been reversed, or whatever. But I am a pessimist. :) Well, it has been recommended here many times. Someone posted a udev problem just a bit ago. If I were the poster, I would reemerge udev and reboot. If it still has problems, I would emerge a older version, delete the udev rules and reboot. Unless you know what goes in those udev files, removing them is the simplest way. When udev restarts, it will generate those files in a flash. Keep in mind, when you shut down, udev removes most everything in /dev too unless you have it set to save them. Also, I posted here on how to fix my little naming problem. I was told to delete the files and reboot. That's how I know it is safe to remove them. Can a person just edit them sure. Why tho? Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Questions about SATA and hot plugging.
Mark Knecht wrote: On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 7:29 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann volkerar...@googlemail.com wrote: SNIP again, the hardware to hotplug is built into every sata connector. What is left is the controller not getting confused and the driver. Every SATA connector? External connectors yes. Internal connectors no. AHCI as a standard says yes to hoplugging. So as long as you use a AHCI compliant sata controller you can hotplug. Interested readers should be _VERY_ careful about listening to previous advice. The major difference between the internal and external SATA cables connectors, a ***particularly*** important part of hotplugging, is that the external connector ensures that ground is connected before the signals. This ensures that in the case of static electricity the drive becomes grounded to the computer which is done to eliminate ESD (electro static discharge) events which will damage either the drive or the controller. (Depending n which is charged.) If you are using an internal power supply and have drive power already attached when you hotplug an internal cable then likely you will be just fine. If, on the other hand, you have a SATA drive sitting on a bench using a separate power supply then hotplugging with an internal cable is not recommended. Hope this helps, Mark I'm not saying that this is good advice but this is what my mobo manual says. If I have the BIOS set to AHCI, then all the ports are hot pluggable. That includes the internal ones. My mobo design is about a year old so this may not apply to older ones but that is what the manual says. Just because I am to chicken to try doesn't mean it doesn't work tho. I'm to chicken to use the one marked external too. I moved my data drive over from the old rig last night. I got out the flashlight and magnifying glass and gave all the connectors a good looking over. They all have that L shape connector which is usually what external connectors have. That is according to what I have read anyway. All the connectors are the same on my mobo, both internal and external. It appears to me that with my mobo, there is no internal connectors. They are just all SATA and hot pluggable. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Questions about SATA and hot plugging.
On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 10:05 AM, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: Mark Knecht wrote: On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 7:29 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann volkerar...@googlemail.com wrote: SNIP again, the hardware to hotplug is built into every sata connector. What is left is the controller not getting confused and the driver. Every SATA connector? External connectors yes. Internal connectors no. AHCI as a standard says yes to hoplugging. So as long as you use a AHCI compliant sata controller you can hotplug. Interested readers should be _VERY_ careful about listening to previous advice. The major difference between the internal and external SATA cables connectors, a ***particularly*** important part of hotplugging, is that the external connector ensures that ground is connected before the signals. This ensures that in the case of static electricity the drive becomes grounded to the computer which is done to eliminate ESD (electro static discharge) events which will damage either the drive or the controller. (Depending n which is charged.) If you are using an internal power supply and have drive power already attached when you hotplug an internal cable then likely you will be just fine. If, on the other hand, you have a SATA drive sitting on a bench using a separate power supply then hotplugging with an internal cable is not recommended. Hope this helps, Mark Hi Dale I'm not saying that this is good advice but this is what my mobo manual says. If I have the BIOS set to AHCI, then all the ports are hot pluggable. That includes the internal ones. My mobo design is about a year old so this may not apply to older ones but that is what the manual says. Just because I am to chicken to try doesn't mean it doesn't work tho. I'm to chicken to use the one marked external too. Cool. As I said when I first replied to this thread that's not always the case. My Intel DH55HC has 6 SATA ports but only 2 are eSATA compatible. If you are hot plugging internal drives to internal connectors and they are hooked to the same power supply as your motherboard then it should be safe even using internal cables that fit the motherboard connectors. Note that those connectors aren't all that strong so you should be careful not to break one. I moved my data drive over from the old rig last night. I got out the flashlight and magnifying glass and gave all the connectors a good looking over. They all have that L shape connector which is usually what external connectors have. That is according to what I have read anyway. All the connectors are the same on my mobo, both internal and external. It appears to me that with my mobo, there is no internal connectors. They are just all SATA and hot pluggable. Dale Hold on there. SATA and eSATA connectors are definitely different. If your case came with a cable hooked to the eSATA connector then that cable is taking care of the difference already. Try plugging an internal SATA cable into the eSATA connector on your case. You'll find out pretty quickly that they don't work. A proper eSATA connector doesn't have the 'L'. It has small flanges that stick out to the sides. (Or mine do anyway!!) No reason to be scared of eSATA hotplugging. Works fine and it's designed to be robust. - Mark
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Questions about SATA and hot plugging.
Mark Knecht wrote: On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 10:05 AM, Dalerdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: Mark Knecht wrote: On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 7:29 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann volkerar...@googlemail.comwrote: SNIP again, the hardware to hotplug is built into every sata connector. What is left is the controller not getting confused and the driver. Every SATA connector? External connectors yes. Internal connectors no. AHCI as a standard says yes to hoplugging. So as long as you use a AHCI compliant sata controller you can hotplug. Interested readers should be _VERY_ careful about listening to previous advice. The major difference between the internal and external SATA cablesconnectors, a ***particularly*** important part of hotplugging, is that the external connector ensures that ground is connected before the signals. This ensures that in the case of static electricity the drive becomes grounded to the computer which is done to eliminate ESD (electro static discharge) events which will damage either the drive or the controller. (Depending n which is charged.) If you are using an internal power supply and have drive power already attached when you hotplug an internal cable then likely you will be just fine. If, on the other hand, you have a SATA drive sitting on a bench using a separate power supply then hotplugging with an internal cable is not recommended. Hope this helps, Mark Hi Dale I'm not saying that this is good advice but this is what my mobo manual says. If I have the BIOS set to AHCI, then all the ports are hot pluggable. That includes the internal ones. My mobo design is about a year old so this may not apply to older ones but that is what the manual says. Just because I am to chicken to try doesn't mean it doesn't work tho. I'm to chicken to use the one marked external too. Cool. As I said when I first replied to this thread that's not always the case. My Intel DH55HC has 6 SATA ports but only 2 are eSATA compatible. If you are hot plugging internal drives to internal connectors and they are hooked to the same power supply as your motherboard then it should be safe even using internal cables that fit the motherboard connectors. Note that those connectors aren't all that strong so you should be careful not to break one. I moved my data drive over from the old rig last night. I got out the flashlight and magnifying glass and gave all the connectors a good looking over. They all have that L shape connector which is usually what external connectors have. That is according to what I have read anyway. All the connectors are the same on my mobo, both internal and external. It appears to me that with my mobo, there is no internal connectors. They are just all SATA and hot pluggable. Dale Hold on there. SATA and eSATA connectors are definitely different. If your case came with a cable hooked to the eSATA connector then that cable is taking care of the difference already. Try plugging an internal SATA cable into the eSATA connector on your case. You'll find out pretty quickly that they don't work. A proper eSATA connector doesn't have the 'L'. It has small flanges that stick out to the sides. (Or mine do anyway!!) No reason to be scared of eSATA hotplugging. Works fine and it's designed to be robust. - Mark That's the thing, ALL the SATA connectors are the same. They are the same color, same shape and all. They are all identical just turned in different ways for some reason. If you want, you can look for yourself. Here is a link to the mobo. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128431 If you click on the image, it will load up a new page and you can zoom in and take a really close look. As I said, this is a mobo that came out in about 2009 according to what I have read. This may not work on old mobos that don't have this connector. I would assume that since this connector is a eSATA type, that it is hot pluggable like the manual says. After all, if it says it is in the manual, they have to stand behind it if someone plugs up the wrong thing. I used plain SATA cables to hook all my drives up. I don't have a eSATA cable that I know of. I ordered a couple cables when I ordered my parts to build this rig and I have used them. They plug into the mobo just fine. Here is a link to it: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812816032 According to that page, it is hot pluggable but no mention of being a eSATA cable. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Questions about SATA and hot plugging.
On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 11:10 AM, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: Mark Knecht wrote: SNIP Hold on there. SATA and eSATA connectors are definitely different. If your case came with a cable hooked to the eSATA connector then that cable is taking care of the difference already. Try plugging an internal SATA cable into the eSATA connector on your case. You'll find out pretty quickly that they don't work. A proper eSATA connector doesn't have the 'L'. It has small flanges that stick out to the sides. (Or mine do anyway!!) No reason to be scared of eSATA hotplugging. Works fine and it's designed to be robust. - Mark That's the thing, ALL the SATA connectors are the same. They are the same color, same shape and all. They are all identical just turned in different ways for some reason. If you want, you can look for yourself. Here is a link to the mobo. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128431 No, I totally believe you, but that's not the issue. The connectors on the motherboard are ALWAYS internal connectors so that you can use all of them with internal disk drives, etc. using internal cables. The eSATA connector is, however, different. You can see it in the link I sent earlier, copied here: http://www.serialata.org/technology/esata.asp There is a _special_ SATA-to-eSATA assembly to make the conversion. If your case has a cable built into the case and already hooked up to the eSATA connector then it will have an internal SATA connector on the cable. However if you look at the eSATA connector itself, on the outside of the case, it will look like the one in the picture on the above link. More below... If you click on the image, it will load up a new page and you can zoom in and take a really close look. As I said, this is a mobo that came out in about 2009 according to what I have read. This may not work on old mobos that don't have this connector. I would assume that since this connector is a eSATA type, that it is hot pluggable like the manual says. After all, if it says it is in the manual, they have to stand behind it if someone plugs up the wrong thing. I used plain SATA cables to hook all my drives up. I don't have a eSATA cable that I know of. I ordered a couple cables when I ordered my parts to build this rig and I have used them. They plug into the mobo just fine. Here is a link to it: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812816032 According to that page, it is hot pluggable but no mention of being a eSATA cable. Your cables are perfect for internal drives. Keep in mind that the internal connectors are only spec'ed for 50 insertions in their lifetime. They aren't made to be messed with very much. eSATA connectors are spec'ed for (IIRC) 6000 insertions. Here is an example of an eSATA bracket if your motherboard or case didn't come with one. It has an internal SATA connector on one end which you plug into your motherboard. It has an eSATA connector on the bracket. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812816069cm_re=esata_bracket-_-12-816-069-_-Product That one would use a back panel slot but essentially steals a PCI slot. Again, I think you've done everything perfectly as far as I can tell. I only got involved in the thread at all because (IMO) incorrect info was being tossed around about eSATA, SATA and hotplugging. If you're not going to use eSATA then none of this matters to you today. In my case I had to learn this because not all internal SATA ports on my Intel MB were eSATA compatible and I needed to do it the right way. Cheers buddy, Mark
[gentoo-user] Re: Questions about SATA and hot plugging.
On 2010-12-16, Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com wrote: Your cables are perfect for internal drives. Keep in mind that the internal connectors are only spec'ed for 50 insertions in their lifetime. In my experience, the real lifetime is closer to 5. In 25 years of dealing with computer cabling and connectors, the surface-mount internal SATA connectors on motherboards are by far the most fragile ones I've ever come across. In years and years of dealing with SCSI, IDE/ATA, floppies, and several flavors of MFM and RLL cabling, I don't ever remember one of them breaking. I've seen quite a few internal motherboard SATA connectors break -- or even get pulled off the board. And it's not just me, I've seen other people break them just as much. IMO, they're gargabe. Other than the fragile surface-mount connectors, I do like SATA. OTOH, back when a decent PC cost you $5K, a few dollars on a good connector wasn't a big deal. These days when you have to build a Motherboard for $20, you just can't put $5 worth of connectors on it. They aren't made to be messed with very much. Very true. -- Grant Edwards grant.b.edwardsYow! Boys, you have ALL at been selected to LEAVE th' gmail.comPLANET in 15 minutes!!
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Questions about SATA and hot plugging.
Mark Knecht wrote: On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 11:10 AM, Dalerdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: Mark Knecht wrote: SNIP Hold on there. SATA and eSATA connectors are definitely different. If your case came with a cable hooked to the eSATA connector then that cable is taking care of the difference already. Try plugging an internal SATA cable into the eSATA connector on your case. You'll find out pretty quickly that they don't work. A proper eSATA connector doesn't have the 'L'. It has small flanges that stick out to the sides. (Or mine do anyway!!) No reason to be scared of eSATA hotplugging. Works fine and it's designed to be robust. - Mark That's the thing, ALL the SATA connectors are the same. They are the same color, same shape and all. They are all identical just turned in different ways for some reason. If you want, you can look for yourself. Here is a link to the mobo. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128431 No, I totally believe you, but that's not the issue. The connectors on the motherboard are ALWAYS internal connectors so that you can use all of them with internal disk drives, etc. using internal cables. The eSATA connector is, however, different. You can see it in the link I sent earlier, copied here: http://www.serialata.org/technology/esata.asp There is a _special_ SATA-to-eSATA assembly to make the conversion. If your case has a cable built into the case and already hooked up to the eSATA connector then it will have an internal SATA connector on the cable. However if you look at the eSATA connector itself, on the outside of the case, it will look like the one in the picture on the above link. More below... If you click on the image, it will load up a new page and you can zoom in and take a really close look. As I said, this is a mobo that came out in about 2009 according to what I have read. This may not work on old mobos that don't have this connector. I would assume that since this connector is a eSATA type, that it is hot pluggable like the manual says. After all, if it says it is in the manual, they have to stand behind it if someone plugs up the wrong thing. I used plain SATA cables to hook all my drives up. I don't have a eSATA cable that I know of. I ordered a couple cables when I ordered my parts to build this rig and I have used them. They plug into the mobo just fine. Here is a link to it: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812816032 According to that page, it is hot pluggable but no mention of being a eSATA cable. Your cables are perfect for internal drives. Keep in mind that the internal connectors are only spec'ed for 50 insertions in their lifetime. They aren't made to be messed with very much. eSATA connectors are spec'ed for (IIRC) 6000 insertions. Here is an example of an eSATA bracket if your motherboard or case didn't come with one. It has an internal SATA connector on one end which you plug into your motherboard. It has an eSATA connector on the bracket. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812816069cm_re=esata_bracket-_-12-816-069-_-Product That one would use a back panel slot but essentially steals a PCI slot. Again, I think you've done everything perfectly as far as I can tell. I only got involved in the thread at all because (IMO) incorrect info was being tossed around about eSATA, SATA and hotplugging. If you're not going to use eSATA then none of this matters to you today. In my case I had to learn this because not all internal SATA ports on my Intel MB were eSATA compatible and I needed to do it the right way. Cheers buddy, Mark OK. I'm not going to argue the point. All I know is this, the cable that came with the case will plug into any SATA connector on my mobo. There is nothing marking a eSATA port on there. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Questions about SATA and hot plugging.
On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 12:24 PM, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: OK. I'm not going to argue the point. All I know is this, the cable that came with the case will plug into any SATA connector on my mobo. There is nothing marking a eSATA port on there. There's nothing to argue. On your motherboard all ports are eSATA compatible. On my DH55HC only two of the 6 are eSATA compatible: http://www.newegg.com/Product/ImageGallery.aspx?CurImage=13-121-396-TSSpinSet=13-121-396-RSISList=13-121-396-Z01%2c13-121-396-Z02%2c13-121-396-Z03%2c13-121-396-Z04%2c13-121-396-Z05S7ImageFlag=1Item=N82E16813121396Depa=0WaterMark=1Description=Intel%20BOXDH55HC%20LGA%201156%20Intel%20H55%20HDMI%20ATX%20Intel%20Motherboard In the picture you can see 6 ports on the upper right. 4 are black, 2 are red. The two red ones are the only ones eSATA compatible. Your machine is put together perfectly AFAICT. Cheers, Mark
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Questions about SATA and hot plugging.
Mark Knecht wrote: On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 12:24 PM, Dalerdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: OK. I'm not going to argue the point. All I know is this, the cable that came with the case will plug into any SATA connector on my mobo. There is nothing marking a eSATA port on there. There's nothing to argue. On your motherboard all ports are eSATA compatible. On my DH55HC only two of the 6 are eSATA compatible: http://www.newegg.com/Product/ImageGallery.aspx?CurImage=13-121-396-TSSpinSet=13-121-396-RSISList=13-121-396-Z01%2c13-121-396-Z02%2c13-121-396-Z03%2c13-121-396-Z04%2c13-121-396-Z05S7ImageFlag=1Item=N82E16813121396Depa=0WaterMark=1Description=Intel%20BOXDH55HC%20LGA%201156%20Intel%20H55%20HDMI%20ATX%20Intel%20Motherboard In the picture you can see 6 ports on the upper right. 4 are black, 2 are red. The two red ones are the only ones eSATA compatible. Your machine is put together perfectly AFAICT. Cheers, Mark You have red and black connectors where mine are blue. Yours physically look like mine except for the colors. They have the same L shape thingy. Spell checker don't like thingy so I need to trademark that word. lol http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/5640/201012070003cutscale.jpg That is my rig but I have added a couple things since then. I also moved the ram to the outer slot. My CPU fan was rubbing on it a bit. I got to get shorter sticks for the inner slots. The red wire that can barely be seen is the cable that goes to the front eSATA plug. That pic doesn't show it well at all tho. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Questions about SATA and hot plugging.
On Thursday 16 December 2010 07:47:18 Mark Knecht wrote: On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 7:29 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann volkerar...@googlemail.com wrote: SNIP again, the hardware to hotplug is built into every sata connector. What is left is the controller not getting confused and the driver. Every SATA connector? External connectors yes. Internal connectors no. wrong. EVERY connector. The arrangements of the the contacts guarantee an electrical save hotplug event. AHCI as a standard says yes to hoplugging. So as long as you use a AHCI compliant sata controller you can hotplug. Interested readers should be _VERY_ careful about listening to previous advice. The major difference between the internal and external SATA cables connectors, a ***particularly*** important part of hotplugging, is that the external connector ensures that ground is connected before the signals. this is true for ALL connectors. This ensures that in the case of static electricity the drive becomes grounded to the computer which is done to eliminate ESD (electro static discharge) events which will damage either the drive or the controller. (Depending n which is charged.) If you are using an internal power supply and have drive power already attached when you hotplug an internal cable then likely you will be just fine. If, on the other hand, you have a SATA drive sitting on a bench using a separate power supply then hotplugging with an internal cable is not recommended. and suddenly you are opening a completely different box.
[gentoo-user] modem problem : Speedstream vs Zoom
I've run into a bizarre problem with broadband modems. For a long time, I've happily connected to the I/net using an ancient Speedstream modem (2001). Wanting to take advantage of the recent installation of fibre optics here to get higher speed, I contacted my ISP, a small helpful Canadian company, who decided I needed a more upto-date modem sent a Zoom modem+router. After much trial error, I've got the Zoom working with Mandriva, which I have installed alongside Gentoo in my regular desktop machine (it's there because I wanted to help a cousin who's a Linux beginner; I also have Ubuntu for the same reason, which also works with the Zoom), but not with Gentoo. The speed with Mandriva ( Ubuntu) is still as before the fibre arrived, but that's a different issue, probably due to old wiring inside the house. However, it's no use getting that wiring upgraded, if I can't use the resulting service with Gentoo. Both Mandriva my Gentoo use Kernel 2.6.33 I've recompiled the kernel to include all the various PPP-related drivers Mandriva compiles as modules (I have them as part of the actual kernel via 'Y', not as modules); I've also recompiled Gentoo pkgs 'ppp baselayout sysvinit'; I've also tried copying options from Mandriva files in /etc/ppp/ to similar files in Gentoo, though they use the older Rp-pppoe approach. Still the same line in 'daemon.log' : timeout waiting for PADO packets, unable to complete PPPoE discovery. Has anyone else run into this kind of problem ? Does anyone have suggestions what Mandriva mb doing which Gentoo needs to do ? Again, Gentoo Mandriva both work with the Speedstream modem, but only Mandriva works with the newer Zoom modem, not Gentoo. -- ,, SUPPORT ___//___, Philip Webb ELECTRIC /] [] [] [] [] []| Cities Centre, University of Toronto TRANSIT`-O--O---' purslowatchassdotutorontodotca
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Re: Weird (?) permission problem...
Apparently, though unproven, at 13:14 on Thursday 16 December 2010, Peter Humphrey did opine thusly: On Thursday 16 December 2010 07:24:27 Alan McKinnon wrote: Apparently, though unproven, at 03:33 on Thursday 16 December 2010, Peter Humphrey did opine thusly: On Thursday 16 December 2010 01:01:27 walt wrote: Every new generation of unix users *must* read it. I get very tired of people telling me what to do. Then don't read it but where else are you going to get the information from? I don't object to what Walt said, just the way he said it. In this country we've had a long spell of a government bent on regulating every detail of our lives. Nowadays even the road signs tell me what to do, instead of what to expect. In fact it's worse than that - they've even started telling me what to think! During my time in Minneapolis 20 years ago I was nostalgic about the freedom from petty restrictions back home. That's all changed now. Nanny state. Now I see where you are coming from. This is why I live in Africa, down here we can't be bothered with shit like that. -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] modem problem : Speedstream vs Zoom
On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 4:27 PM, Philip Webb purs...@ca.inter.net wrote: I've run into a bizarre problem with broadband modems. Both Mandriva my Gentoo use Kernel 2.6.33 I've recompiled the kernel to include all the various PPP-related drivers Mandriva compiles as modules (I have them as part of the actual kernel via 'Y', not as modules); I've also recompiled Gentoo pkgs 'ppp baselayout sysvinit'; I've also tried copying options from Mandriva files in /etc/ppp/ to similar files in Gentoo, though they use the older Rp-pppoe approach. Still the same line in 'daemon.log' : timeout waiting for PADO packets, unable to complete PPPoE discovery. If it's a modem+router combo, do you need to worry about PPPoE at all on your computer anymore? I think typically the router would take care of that for you, and all your PC does is get a DHCP address (NAT) from the router and is done with it, at least that's how all the ones I've seen behave (unless you've intentially disabled the router part and are using your PC as the router or are going routerless). Just throwing it out there. :)
Re: [gentoo-user] modem problem : Speedstream vs Zoom
I second that. Gentoo probably isn't working because you have a custom pppoe networking configuration. The others are built with a standard dhcp configuration. Wipe your custom stuff and all will be well. On Dec 16, 2010 6:29 PM, Paul Hartman paul.hartman+gen...@gmail.compaul.hartman%2bgen...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 4:27 PM, Philip Webb purs...@ca.inter.net wrote: I've run into a bizarre problem with broadband modems. Both Mandriva my Gentoo use Kernel 2.6.33 I've recompiled the kernel to include all the various PPP-related drivers Mandriva compiles as modules (I have them as part of the actual kernel via 'Y', not as modules); I've also recompiled Gentoo pkgs 'ppp baselayout sysvinit'; I've also tried copying options from Mandriva files in /etc/ppp/ to similar files in Gentoo, though they use the older Rp-pppoe approach. Still the same line in 'daemon.log' : timeout waiting for PADO packets, unable to complete PPPoE discovery. If it's a modem+router combo, do you need to worry about PPPoE at all on your computer anymore? I think typically the router would take care of that for you, and all your PC does is get a DHCP address (NAT) from the router and is done with it, at least that's how all the ones I've seen behave (unless you've intentially disabled the router part and are using your PC as the router or are going routerless). Just throwing it out there. :)
[gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Re: Weird (?) permission problem...
On 12/16/2010 03:14 AM, Peter Humphrey wrote: On Thursday 16 December 2010 07:24:27 Alan McKinnon wrote: Apparently, though unproven, at 03:33 on Thursday 16 December 2010, Peter Humphrey did opine thusly: On Thursday 16 December 2010 01:01:27 walt wrote: Every new generation of unix users *must* read it. I get very tired of people telling me what to do. Then don't read it but where else are you going to get the information from? I don't object to what Walt said, just the way he said it. In this country we've had a long spell of a government bent on regulating every detail of our lives. Nowadays even the road signs tell me what to do, instead of what to expect. In fact it's worse than that - they've even started telling me what to think! During my time in Minneapolis 20 years ago I was nostalgic about the freedom from petty restrictions back home. That's all changed now. Peter, you sound seriously depressed. No, I'm not joking or trying to be insulting. Your somber reply to my trivial post makes me worry about you. Before you post a reply, please (I'm asking, not telling) give this a look and see if it sounds familiar: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seasonal_affective_disorder I heard about it after many years of suffering from it myself, and just knowing about it has helped me deal with it. I'm very much aware of its affect on me in the past few weeks in particular. I know it will pass in another few weeks, which is a special treat I can look forward to. So, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. Worth a shot in the dark, anyway.
[gentoo-user] Long standing problem of booting thu kvm switch
Somewhere back down the road... mnths now, I lost the ability to talk to the boot screen from my KVM connected keyboard. What I mean is, when gentoo starts to boot and reaches the grub screen... It does not see my keyboard yet. Once booted and login prompt is up (I boot to console mode) the keyboard now is recognized. There was a time when the keyboard was recognized throughout, so something changed in grub or I'm not sure what... but this happens before the kernel is booted. I just worked around it and kept meaning to try to sort it out... but never did till now its been so long ago now I have no idea what config may have done the deed. I hoped someone here may have some useful input regarding what drivers may be needed or what changes made in order that, at the boot prompt, my kvm (usb) connected keyboard is recognized. Of course plugging a keyboard direct to the machine is an option but it gets quite messy having two keyboards on a desk already loaded down with 2 monitors a KVM connecting 4 machines and all the junk one might associate with habitually working thru 4 or 5 machines for hours every day or nearly so. The problem only exists right at boot time... once booted the KVM works fine.
Re: [gentoo-user] Long standing problem of booting thu kvm switch
On 17/12/2010, at 1:41am, Harry Putnam wrote: Somewhere back down the road... mnths now, I lost the ability to talk to the boot screen from my KVM connected keyboard. What I mean is, when gentoo starts to boot and reaches the grub screen... It does not see my keyboard yet. Once booted and login prompt is up (I boot to console mode) the keyboard now is recognized. There was a time when the keyboard was recognized throughout, so something changed in grub or I'm not sure what... but this happens before the kernel is booted. I'll refresh your memory: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/gentoo/user/190909 There are unresolved posts in that thread - you haven't returned to the list and said yeah, I tried this and the result was . Please post back when you have checked the BIOS settings for HID devices. Stroller.
