Re: [gentoo-user] WPA2 connection configuration?
On Monday 26 Sep 2011 23:08:04 Mark Knecht wrote: My experience so far: 1) As discussed earlier, needing to mess with routes when changing which network I'm using. Sad when both options actually point to the same address. If you use ifplugd the eth0 will be activated auto-magically once a link is detected on wired NIC. You can even further configure it to run commands of your choice once it detects that a link is up (i.e. is my wlan0 up then configure a route otherwise not, type of thing). 2) If I start with wlan0 turned off and switch to root to disable eth0 and enable wlan0, I get a message that wlan0 is up but 'not active'. Indeed, as a user if I start a browser it doesn't work. However, if as root I ping the router I immediately get a response and then my browser works fine. This is odd. Something is amiss with your configuration ... 3) If I disable wlan0 and then reenable it it doesn't work until I restart wpa_supplicant This is definitely *not* how it works here. If by disabling it you mean running /etc/init.d/net.wlan0 then your /etc/init.d/net.wlan0 script should call wpa_supplicant. You should not have to run wpa_supplicant by hand. Are you sure you are calling the correct NIC driver for wpa_supplicant in your /etc/init.d/net.wlan0 file? (e.g. you may need to use broadcom instead of wext if you are running an old broadcom card). 4) So far wpa_gui cannot find any networks, or at least doesn't display anything when I attempt a scan. Assuming your init.d script and wpa_supplicant is correct then iwlist wlan0 scanning (or scan) should be able to scan and list devices. So should wpa_cli -i wlan0 (run it and then enter 'scan_results' on the prompt) and of course so should wpa_gui. I don't understand at this point how to make this work for normal users. Anyone in my family of three might want to pick this laptop up and go to a different part of the house, or even go out of the house and use the laptop with some public network. I haven't a clue yet how anyone is supposed to change networks when they aren't root. I understand that flies in the face of typical Linux security, but it seems to me that a well thought out wireless environment could figure out how to do that, and possibly has already but I haven't found the info. You can set which group is allowed to mess about with wpa_supplicant (this of course applies also to the wpa_cli/gui) in the /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf. You can for example set: ctrl_interface_group=wheel or ctrl_interface_group=users or ctrl_interface_group=my_wlan0_users_group (this is I think commented comprehensively in your .example file and in the man page) Anyway, I am THRILLED to have wireless working at all and appreciate all the help I got getting there. Without question I couldn't have gotten here without it. I think something is amiss with your configuration which causes the problems you describe above. You can contact me off list if you want to keep the noise down and I'll take a closer look at your settings in case I spot something. -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Nepomuk is eating my disk space
On Tuesday 27 September 2011 03:42:12 Nils Larsson wrote: You could disable it(search for Nepomuk in systemsettings). That's what I did. Got tired of nepomukindexer spawning hundreds of instances of itself and eating all my memory... Ah, yes, of course - thanks. -- Rgds Peter Linux Counter 5290, 1994-04-23
Re: [gentoo-user] Nepomuk is eating my disk space
On Tuesday 27 September 2011 05:49:24 Indi wrote: Ah, yet another marvelous benefit of using kde. Indeed. I do try Gnome occasionally to see how it's progressing, but I can't get on with it - far too arrogant. And the others I've tried are too skinny to do all the things I want. So it's KDE and like it I'm afraid. -- Rgds Peter Linux Counter 5290, 1994-04-23
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Should I be worried that I won't be able to dual boot in Gentoo?
On Monday, September 26, 2011 10:26:03 PM Jonas de Buhr wrote: I am assuming that unlike the old days when I used to boot Linux on PCs using a floppy with SmartBootManager, now we'll need to generate some key/hash for our freshly compiled kernel, then add it to the BIOS firmware and flash the BIOS with it before we are able to boot into it? Is it more complicated than that? how are you going to write to the bios if it doesn't let you? maybe you are determined enough to manually flash the chip every time you update grub but i think thats a buzzkill for 90% of the users ;) Eerhm... If Grub is the bootloader, wouldn't we just need to have a signed version of Grub? -- Joost
[gentoo-user] Bind problems when registering new domains....
Hi everybody, i registered a new domain yesterday and tried to set the primary ans secondary nameserver as usual, which resulted in the following error-message: Nameserver error - ERROR: 116 SOA record response must be authoritative (resolver, answer) ([/10.121.46.9|/2001:608:6:7:5:0:0:11]=--80.239.175.176:53 (UDP, PROTOCOL_EXPLICITLY_CHOSEN, Timeout: 3s, Retry: 1 x 0s, unsecure, ignoreTC), [/10.121.46.9|/2001:608:6:7:5:0:0:11]=--80.239.175.176:53 (UDP, PROTOCOL_EXPLICITLY_CHOSEN, Timeout: 3s, Retry: 1 x 0s, unsecure, ignoreTC): RA ) In the server there are 2 networking-interfaces, the ip-address of the error belongs to the second one... I am currently running bind-9.7.4 and did not change anything to the config (except adding the new domain to the zones...) As i am not really into the whole bind-thingy (someone configured it for me...) i am totally stuck here... Actually i tried to update bind to bind-9.8.1 and performed all the chmods that were suggested, but no change... Still got the same errors. Perhaps there is someone out there who can help me with this issue... Regards, Jens
Re: [gentoo-user] WPA2 connection configuration?
On Mon, 26 Sep 2011 18:43:13 -0700, Mark Knecht wrote: I haven't seriously considered wicd because I don't understand what it is, how it links into everything else on the system. For a user type the idea of dumping init scripts in favor of something else is a _really_ foreign idea to me. As someone who has used Gentoo for at least a decade please understand that I've never done _anything_ like that before. You still run an init script, but it's the wicd init script, not the net.wlan0 one. there's nothing magic about wicd, it just looks at which interfaces are available and connects to the best one (best being defined by you and then signal strength). It can do a lot more, like running scripts when connecting and disconnecting, which can be global or per-ESSID, and each network can be set up as you want, but at its basic you set it to start with rc-update and let it get on with the job. -- Neil Bothwick ST:TNG Diner - Now Featuring Our All You Can Assimilate SmorgasBORG! signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Should I be worried that I won't be able to dual boot in Gentoo?
Am 26.09.2011 21:56, schrieb Michael Mol: Is it more complicated than that? Just a hunch, but I think the BIOS will probably be signed. Perhaps in replacement of the existing checksum functionality. I have something like that on my Motorola Milestone Android Phone. It is not possible to change the kernel because the bootloader is signed and only loads signed kernels. The BIOS of the phone is signed so that you can't change the bootloader. Milestone is out for about 2 years now, many smart people tried to hack it but till now no luck and it does not look like it will be hacked ever. I fear that something like that will come to most laptops and many ready built desktop computers in a few years. It will likely still be possible to buy mainboards without it, for a high prize I also fear. Greetings Sebastian Beßler
Re: [gentoo-user] Bind problems when registering new domains....
On Tue, 27 Sep 2011 09:10:53 +0200 Jens Reinemuth j...@reinemuth.info wrote: Hi everybody, i registered a new domain yesterday and tried to set the primary ans secondary nameserver as usual, which resulted in the following error-message: Nameserver error - ERROR: 116 SOA record response must be authoritative (resolver, answer) ([/10.121.46.9|/2001:608:6:7:5:0:0:11]=--80.239.175.176:53 (UDP, PROTOCOL_EXPLICITLY_CHOSEN, Timeout: 3s, Retry: 1 x 0s, unsecure, ignoreTC), [/10.121.46.9|/2001:608:6:7:5:0:0:11]=--80.239.175.176:53 (UDP, PROTOCOL_EXPLICITLY_CHOSEN, Timeout: 3s, Retry: 1 x 0s, unsecure, ignoreTC): RA ) Is this for a .de zone? Google returns many many hits for that error, all of them related to .de somehow. This link seems to lay out the registrar rules nicely: http://www.denic.de/en/background/name-server-service-of-denic/name-server-and-nsentry-data.html?cHash=3486f26050ac1dc3cbe6f5842dc70494 Your problem is certainly not related to bind itself, but to the data in your zone file. .de has a reputation of being somewhat ever-the-top pedantic and your zone files seem to have something in them that the registrar doesn't like. In the server there are 2 networking-interfaces, the ip-address of the error belongs to the second one... I am currently running bind-9.7.4 and did not change anything to the config (except adding the new domain to the zones...) As i am not really into the whole bind-thingy (someone configured it for me...) i am totally stuck here... Actually i tried to update bind to bind-9.8.1 and performed all the chmods that were suggested, but no change... Still got the same errors. Perhaps there is someone out there who can help me with this issue... Regards, Jens -- Alan McKinnnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] WPA2 connection configuration?
On Mon, 26 Sep 2011 18:43:13 -0700 Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 5:14 PM, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, 27 Sep 2011 07:08:05 +0700 Pandu Poluan pa...@poluan.info wrote: On Sep 27, 2011 5:11 AM, Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com wrote: [-- snip --] Speaking as someone experienced in running Gentoo but certainly not a power user - I don't write scripts or program at all - I gotta say I don't like that way this is all working on my system so far. TO BE CLEAR, I am SURE that I don't have everything configured as well as it could possibly be, but I also suspect that would be true for the majority of new wireless users on Gentoo after only a day or two. Just to throw a small spanner in the works All my wpa issues were solved long ago by dumping the gentoo net scripts, then installing and running wicd where it all JustWorks(TM). init.d scripts work great for static servers. wicd works great for mobile laptops. There's very little overlap between these two. Have you considered using wicd at all? Alan, I haven't seriously considered wicd because I don't understand what it is, how it links into everything else on the system. For a user type the idea of dumping init scripts in favor of something else is a _really_ foreign idea to me. As someone who has used Gentoo for at least a decade please understand that I've never done _anything_ like that before. I'm sure I can figure out more or less how the scripts work, but there are other things I'd worry about like some some system update deleting them, etc. Reading the wicd homepage it looks like it could help, but how many hours am I going to have to invest to get it running? Understand that I've already dumped maybe 10 hours into getting here. I figure I'll need another 10 hours of work - reading web pages, trying things out and failing - before I feel like I should ask a question here, so that's 20 hours minimum. Please understand that wireless was working on this machine in Windows in under 10 minutes - not 20 hours! Windows does it the right way for a mobile workstation, and wicd follows the same general idea. At boot-up , a wicd daemon starts, this is the thing that does the heavy lifting and runs as root. When the user's DE starts, you run the wicd-client. It comes with a sensible config dialog where you set sensible stuff like wired interface takes priority over wireless use wireless APs that have been sen before in preference to new ones buttons to define pre-and post-connect scripts if you need them when the client has decided what it's gonna do with your connections, it requests the daemon to do it. It's all very well-thought out and obviously designed with the needs of laptop users in mind. Sort of like NetworkManager working properly without the issues of NetworkManager. For me, it all just worked out of the box and connected every time to all APS - WEP, WPA, even the weird funky corporate BS thingy someone installed at work. Took about 10 minutes :-) The wicd homepage makes it all look so painless so I guess I should go give it a try. Cheers, Mark -- Alan McKinnnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] Slightly OT but interesting nonetheless...
On Monday 26 Sep 2011 23:21:56 Peter Humphrey wrote: On Monday 26 September 2011 22:45:20 Alan McKinnon wrote: It's unrealistic to support everything you ever did forever like MS tried to do (IE6 is *still* hanging around somehow...) Tell me about it! IE6 is the nastiest pain in the backside of any webmaster. I keep having to abandon pretty enhancements of my site because IE6 makes a mess of them. You can use MSIE6 conditional statements in your html to feed this muppet what ever stripped down code it will be able to render in terms of CSS and images. -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] {OT} Development framework with access restriction?
On Monday 26 Sep 2011 22:37:10 Michael Orlitzky wrote: On 09/26/11 16:01, Grant wrote: I'd like to hire a freelancer to work on my website. I don't want to provide access to all of my code, but instead only the particular file or files being worked on. Does anyone know of a development framework that would help facilitate that sort of thing? Would no shell access along with restricted SFTP access be the simplest, safest, most effective way to go? Why not just send him the stuff he should be working on? He can run his own Apache/PHP/whatever on his development machine. When he's done, he can send you a tarball of the site files and maybe a SQL dump if you're using a database. That's the easiest one-off solution. If you're looking for something more permanent, another idea is to have a public git repo somewhere while the developers all work on their own workstations. SQL changes can be made via numbered migrations, e.g., 001-create_users_table.sql 002-create_nodes_table.sql 003-disregard_that_drop_users_table.sql and devs can push everything to the git repo, as long as it's a fast-forward (so they can't trash the repo history). Once you're ready to move something live, an admin logs in to the production box, does a `git pull`, and then runs the migrations or makefile. Or, create a demo-site (in a subdomain blocked by robots.txt so that your google rankings are not messed up) and let him rip. Then diff the live and demo files to see what's been changed? The demo can have different passwds and what not to ensure access controls as necessary. -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Kernel compiles ... monitoring
Top shows CC taking about 50% or in that vacinity... nothing else of note is running. But man I've been at this for 3 days, or so. Created at least 6 different kernels and none will get me booted... either I get a panic and root cannot be mounted, or the screen goes black shortly after grub screen... and nothing more happens. I've tried 3.0.4 and backed up to 2.6.39* ... all this on a machine that has run gentoo for several yrs. And I'm not a complete greenhorn either. There must be some other source of problem I don't know about is all I can think... hardware problem? try memtest86 and a HD check with a (boot cd-)tool from the vendor.
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Should I be worried that I won't be able to dual boot in Gentoo?
On Monday, September 26, 2011 10:26:03 PM Jonas de Buhr wrote: I am assuming that unlike the old days when I used to boot Linux on PCs using a floppy with SmartBootManager, now we'll need to generate some key/hash for our freshly compiled kernel, then add it to the BIOS firmware and flash the BIOS with it before we are able to boot into it? Is it more complicated than that? how are you going to write to the bios if it doesn't let you? maybe you are determined enough to manually flash the chip every time you update grub but i think thats a buzzkill for 90% of the users ;) Eerhm... If Grub is the bootloader, wouldn't we just need to have a signed version of Grub? depends if we are talking about hashes being saved in the bios or signatures being checked by the bios. hashes would have to be written to the bios everytime the binary of the bootloader changes. signatures would have to be renewed everytime the binary changes. this is even worse because you will most likely need the some private key to do that which you will not get your hands on. if anyone can create the signature, it's pointless. so you would have to rely on your bios vendor to sign every possible binary of the bootloader. and then you're still locked out.
Re: [gentoo-user] {OT} Development framework with access restriction?
I'd like to hire a freelancer to work on my website. I don't want to provide access to all of my code, but instead only the particular file or files being worked on. Does anyone know of a development framework that would help facilitate that sort of thing? Would no shell access along with restricted SFTP access be the simplest, safest, most effective way to go? svn can restrict access to directories http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2288810/how-to-restrict-svn-repository-user-account-to-one-directory
Re: [gentoo-user] WPA2 connection configuration?
On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 4:19 AM, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, 26 Sep 2011 18:43:13 -0700 Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 5:14 PM, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, 27 Sep 2011 07:08:05 +0700 Pandu Poluan pa...@poluan.info wrote: On Sep 27, 2011 5:11 AM, Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com wrote: [-- snip --] Speaking as someone experienced in running Gentoo but certainly not a power user - I don't write scripts or program at all - I gotta say I don't like that way this is all working on my system so far. TO BE CLEAR, I am SURE that I don't have everything configured as well as it could possibly be, but I also suspect that would be true for the majority of new wireless users on Gentoo after only a day or two. Just to throw a small spanner in the works All my wpa issues were solved long ago by dumping the gentoo net scripts, then installing and running wicd where it all JustWorks(TM). init.d scripts work great for static servers. wicd works great for mobile laptops. There's very little overlap between these two. Have you considered using wicd at all? Alan, I haven't seriously considered wicd because I don't understand what it is, how it links into everything else on the system. For a user type the idea of dumping init scripts in favor of something else is a _really_ foreign idea to me. As someone who has used Gentoo for at least a decade please understand that I've never done _anything_ like that before. I'm sure I can figure out more or less how the scripts work, but there are other things I'd worry about like some some system update deleting them, etc. Reading the wicd homepage it looks like it could help, but how many hours am I going to have to invest to get it running? Understand that I've already dumped maybe 10 hours into getting here. I figure I'll need another 10 hours of work - reading web pages, trying things out and failing - before I feel like I should ask a question here, so that's 20 hours minimum. Please understand that wireless was working on this machine in Windows in under 10 minutes - not 20 hours! Windows does it the right way for a mobile workstation, and wicd follows the same general idea. At boot-up , a wicd daemon starts, this is the thing that does the heavy lifting and runs as root. When the user's DE starts, you run the wicd-client. It comes with a sensible config dialog where you set sensible stuff like wired interface takes priority over wireless use wireless APs that have been sen before in preference to new ones buttons to define pre-and post-connect scripts if you need them when the client has decided what it's gonna do with your connections, it requests the daemon to do it. It's all very well-thought out and obviously designed with the needs of laptop users in mind. Sort of like NetworkManager working properly without the issues of NetworkManager. For me, it all just worked out of the box and connected every time to all APS - WEP, WPA, even the weird funky corporate BS thingy someone installed at work. Took about 10 minutes :-) SNIP -- Alan McKinnnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com Hi Alan, OK, so wicd really does seem to do the job. It was only about 10 minutes to get it working. Thanks to you and others for suggesting I look at it. Basically, I've removed net.eth0 and net.wlan0 from rc-update and added them with '!' to hotplug in rc.conf. Additionally I commented out everything in /etc/conf.d/net just to ensure no one is using it. I configured the settings for both networks in wicd to different ip addresses and they seem to be what the machine is using. Switching between the two networks is completely painless. All good so far. The only thing I've noticed is that ntp-client doesn't run when booting. ntpd does run immediately after ntp-client fails. I'm not sure if that's caused by some delay in the wired network coming up using wicd or something else but it was working in my previous setup. Any ideas about that one? Anyway, I suspect I could drop in at the library and get it to connect there. I'll give that a try later this week. Thanks, Mark
Re: [gentoo-user] WPA2 connection configuration?
On Tue, 27 Sep 2011 07:56:55 -0700 Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Alan, OK, so wicd really does seem to do the job. It was only about 10 minutes to get it working. Thanks to you and others for suggesting I look at it. Basically, I've removed net.eth0 and net.wlan0 from rc-update and added them with '!' to hotplug in rc.conf. Additionally I commented out everything in /etc/conf.d/net just to ensure no one is using it. I configured the settings for both networks in wicd to different ip addresses and they seem to be what the machine is using. Switching between the two networks is completely painless. All good so far. The only thing I've noticed is that ntp-client doesn't run when booting. ntpd does run immediately after ntp-client fails. I'm not sure if that's caused by some delay in the wired network coming up using wicd or something else but it was working in my previous setup. Any ideas about that one? Yes, I had that too. IIRC the fix is to tweak the ntp init scripts to only run after the wicd daemon is running. The init script for ntp assumes you'll be using the net.* stuff. This might warrant a properly bug report actually. Anyway, I suspect I could drop in at the library and get it to connect there. I'll give that a try later this week. -- Alan McKinnnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] WPA2 connection configuration?
On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 8:08 AM, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, 27 Sep 2011 07:56:55 -0700 Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Alan, OK, so wicd really does seem to do the job. It was only about 10 minutes to get it working. Thanks to you and others for suggesting I look at it. Basically, I've removed net.eth0 and net.wlan0 from rc-update and added them with '!' to hotplug in rc.conf. Additionally I commented out everything in /etc/conf.d/net just to ensure no one is using it. I configured the settings for both networks in wicd to different ip addresses and they seem to be what the machine is using. Switching between the two networks is completely painless. All good so far. The only thing I've noticed is that ntp-client doesn't run when booting. ntpd does run immediately after ntp-client fails. I'm not sure if that's caused by some delay in the wired network coming up using wicd or something else but it was working in my previous setup. Any ideas about that one? Yes, I had that too. IIRC the fix is to tweak the ntp init scripts to only run after the wicd daemon is running. The init script for ntp assumes you'll be using the net.* stuff. This might warrant a properly bug report actually. Anyway, I suspect I could drop in at the library and get it to connect there. I'll give that a try later this week. Thanks. I'll explore that and if I find the same thing I'll submit a bug report if there isn't one already. Cheers, Mark
Re: [gentoo-user] WPA2 connection configuration?
On Tue, 27 Sep 2011 17:08:45 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: The only thing I've noticed is that ntp-client doesn't run when booting. ntpd does run immediately after ntp-client fails. I'm not sure if that's caused by some delay in the wired network coming up using wicd or something else but it was working in my previous setup. Any ideas about that one? Yes, I had that too. IIRC the fix is to tweak the ntp init scripts to only run after the wicd daemon is running. The init script for ntp assumes you'll be using the net.* stuff. Or run ntp-client from WICD's post-connect scripts. -- Neil Bothwick Are Cheerios really doughnut seeds? signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Slightly OT but interesting nonetheless...
Am Montag 26 September 2011, 20:13:53 schrieb Grant Edwards: On 2011-09-26, Michael Mol mike...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 3:37 PM, pk pete...@coolmail.se wrote: Hi, Happened upon this interview with Linus Torvalds that some of you might find interesting (if you haven't seen it already): http://h30565.www3.hp.com/t5/Feature-Articles/Linus-Torvalds-s-Lessons -on-Software-Development-Management/ba-p/440 Yeah, I just saw that. Admittedly, when I saw this section: --begin-section-- [...] Breaking the user experience in order to ???fix??? something is a totally broken concept; you cannot do it. That's hilarious. The Linux developers are _constantly_ changing APIs in ways that break existing device driver code. There are repeatedly wholesale re-designs of some APIs that happen between minor versions of a supposedly stable kernel. which is seriously not a problem and does not matter in the slightest. They NEVER change user-space APIs and ABIs in incompatible ways. THAT is important. We have to touch our NetBSD and FreeBSD drivers maybe once every 3-4 years. and look how much devices they drive - because nobody has to send their drivers upstream, nobody does. Often our Linux drivers have to be updated every 3-4 _months_ to keep up with changes in the kernel that break things. which is your own fucking fault. Get your drivers into the kernel. Problem solved. -- #163933
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Slightly OT but interesting nonetheless...
Am Dienstag 27 September 2011, 04:05:31 schrieb Grant Edwards: On 2011-09-27, Michael Orlitzky mich...@orlitzky.com wrote: On 09/26/11 16:13, Grant Edwards wrote: That's hilarious. The Linux developers are _constantly_ changing APIs in ways that break existing device driver code. There are repeatedly wholesale re-designs of some APIs that happen between minor versions of a supposedly stable kernel. We have to touch our NetBSD and FreeBSD drivers maybe once every 3-4 years. Often our Linux drivers have to be updated every 3-4 _months_ to keep up with changes in the kernel that break things. I suppose one could try to claim that people who ship Linux drivers for their hardware aren't users of the kernel, and therefore our dealing with such breakage isn't a user experience. Contribute your drivers upstream. When the devs change an API, they'll update your code for you. That sounds good, but in practice it doesn't work. 1) The kernel developers don't support any existing customers. Bugs are only fixed for customers who are willing to run the next kernel verison. I've got customers that are still running 2.4 kernels. 2.6.18 is still widely used. Will the kernel developers add new features, support for new hardware, or fix bugs for those customers. Not a chance. so what? There are long term stable kernels with no api changes. Hmm... 2) The kernel developers only make sure that drivers compile. They don't have the hardware or knowlege required to actually test them. One of our drivers _is_ in the kernel. Sure, it builds, but AFAIK, it hasn't actually worked for at least 10 years. and nobody complains on lkml about it - seems that nobody uses your hardware. If something stops working (called a 'regression' btw) it has to be fixed. Linus is very clear about that. Trying to maintain two drivers (one in-kernel and one out-of-kernel) just creates twice as much work for no gain. then don't be outside the kernel. -- #163933
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Slightly OT but interesting nonetheless...
On 09/27/11 00:05, Grant Edwards wrote: Contribute your drivers upstream. When the devs change an API, they'll update your code for you. That sounds good, but in practice it doesn't work. 1) The kernel developers don't support any existing customers. Bugs are only fixed for customers who are willing to run the next kernel verison. I've got customers that are still running 2.4 kernels. 2.6.18 is still widely used. Will the kernel developers add new features, support for new hardware, or fix bugs for those customers. Not a chance. If your users don't upgrade their kernel, then the API doesn't change, and there's no problem for these customers, right? 2) The kernel developers only make sure that drivers compile. They don't have the hardware or knowlege required to actually test them. One of our drivers _is_ in the kernel. Sure, it builds, but AFAIK, it hasn't actually worked for at least 10 years. Trying to maintain two drivers (one in-kernel and one out-of-kernel) just creates twice as much work for no gain. So (assuming the devs do break your stuff occasionally) you have to test and possibly fix at least one driver whenever the API changes. I see a few options: 1) Test/fix one driver, in-kernel (less work) 2) Test/fix one driver, out-of-kernel (more work) 3) Test/fix two drivers, one in- and one out-of-kernel (most work) In any case, even if I'm wrong about the amount of work involved, it would be nicer for your customers if they didn't have to ask your permission to upgrade the kernel.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Slightly OT but interesting nonetheless...
On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 12:54 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann volkerar...@googlemail.com wrote: Am Dienstag 27 September 2011, 04:05:31 schrieb Grant Edwards: That sounds good, but in practice it doesn't work. 1) The kernel developers don't support any existing customers. Bugs are only fixed for customers who are willing to run the next kernel verison. I've got customers that are still running 2.4 kernels. 2.6.18 is still widely used. Will the kernel developers add new features, support for new hardware, or fix bugs for those customers. Not a chance. so what? There are long term stable kernels with no api changes. Hmm... Except they have drivers which are buggy and require backported fixes. 2) The kernel developers only make sure that drivers compile. They don't have the hardware or knowlege required to actually test them. One of our drivers _is_ in the kernel. Sure, it builds, but AFAIK, it hasn't actually worked for at least 10 years. and nobody complains on lkml about it - seems that nobody uses your hardware. Except his customers. Who are going directly to him for support. If something stops working (called a 'regression' btw) it has to be fixed. Linus is very clear about that. That's all well and good, but it doesn't fix things that weren't working correctly in the first place. Upstream kernel doesn't backport fixes, that's what distros and people like Grant, for their customers. And Linus's statement as quoted in that article (and my snippet) doesn't include one important caveat: Sometimes, they drop support for things that either have no maintainer, or are obsolete and difficult to keep. Trying to maintain two drivers (one in-kernel and one out-of-kernel) just creates twice as much work for no gain. then don't be outside the kernel. If we take your position, in this context, to its logical outcome, it sounds like you're saying that distributions like Gentoo, Red Hat and Debian shouldn't maintain older kernels with backported fixes. There exist systems which cannot be upgraded with financial sanity; the existing install works well enough that it would cost more to upgrade. The reasons might be that they're using an old software package which was abandoned, and taking ownership of the code isn't always sane. I was actually approached by someone in my area a couple weeks ago who was in just this kind of scenario. -- :wq
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Slightly OT but interesting nonetheless...
On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 9:05 PM, Grant Edwards grant.b.edwa...@gmail.com wrote: SNIP Contribute your drivers upstream. When the devs change an API, they'll update your code for you. That sounds good, but in practice it doesn't work. 1) The kernel developers don't support any existing customers. Bugs are only fixed for customers who are willing to run the next kernel verison. I've got customers that are still running 2.4 kernels. 2.6.18 is still widely used. Will the kernel developers add new features, support for new hardware, or fix bugs for those customers. Not a chance. Grant, Check out the Long Term Stable family of kernels. It's a bit hard right now due to the status of the kernel web site being down/changing. However you can see here at Andi Kleen's blog that he's interested in participation: http://halobates.de/blog/p/38 I know from watching the lkml list over the years that updates to long term stable kernels come out periodically and do include fixes. I don't know about new drivers, but reading Andi's blog it seems he's potentially open to receiving driver updates from folks interested in having the driver included. Hope this helps, Mark
Re: [gentoo-user] Nepomuk is eating my disk space
Am Dienstag 27 September 2011, 03:18:56 schrieb Peter Humphrey: Hello list, My /home partition is 15GB, and the other day KDE warned me it was down to 1% free. I found that .kde4/share/apps/nepomuk/repository/main/data/virtuosobackend/soprano- virtuoso.db was occupying 12GB, so I deleted it and rebooted. Today it's already 3GB after only a few days. B.g.o has no virtuosobackend or soprano-virtuoso.db bugs. As it's apparently impossible nowadays to install KDE without nepomuk and friends, what does the team think is a good way to tame this beast? This is an amd64 box, not ~amd64. well, you can turn it off. problem solved. last time I checked, nepomuk took 28mb... yeah megabytes. And for ram usage: there is a setting for that. -- #163933
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Slightly OT but interesting nonetheless...
Am Dienstag 27 September 2011, 13:07:02 schrieb Michael Mol: On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 12:54 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann volkerar...@googlemail.com wrote: Am Dienstag 27 September 2011, 04:05:31 schrieb Grant Edwards: That sounds good, but in practice it doesn't work. 1) The kernel developers don't support any existing customers. Bugs are only fixed for customers who are willing to run the next kernel verison. I've got customers that are still running 2.4 kernels. 2.6.18 is still widely used. Will the kernel developers add new features, support for new hardware, or fix bugs for those customers. Not a chance. so what? There are long term stable kernels with no api changes. Hmm... Except they have drivers which are buggy and require backported fixes. and that is the reason stable series exist. They are stable and they backport fixes. Exclusively. 2) The kernel developers only make sure that drivers compile. They don't have the hardware or knowlege required to actually test them. One of our drivers _is_ in the kernel. Sure, it builds, but AFAIK, it hasn't actually worked for at least 10 years. and nobody complains on lkml about it - seems that nobody uses your hardware. Except his customers. Who are going directly to him for support. If something stops working (called a 'regression' btw) it has to be fixed. Linus is very clear about that. That's all well and good, but it doesn't fix things that weren't working correctly in the first place. Upstream kernel doesn't backport fixes, that's what distros and people like Grant, for their customers. wrong, long time stable series do backport fixes. That is the reason they exist in the first place. And Linus's statement as quoted in that article (and my snippet) doesn't include one important caveat: Sometimes, they drop support for things that either have no maintainer, or are obsolete and difficult to keep. and when they do that they warn everybody for years (just look up binary sysctl support as a prime example). Trying to maintain two drivers (one in-kernel and one out-of-kernel) just creates twice as much work for no gain. then don't be outside the kernel. If we take your position, in this context, to its logical outcome, it sounds like you're saying that distributions like Gentoo, Red Hat and Debian shouldn't maintain older kernels with backported fixes. no, but if you decide on one kernel you should use one of the long term supported one. Not 2.6.something-because-I-like-the-number. There exist systems which cannot be upgraded with financial sanity; the existing install works well enough that it would cost more to upgrade. so don't touch the kernel. Wow, that was hard. I think I need something to eat now. Hmmm... noodles The reasons might be that they're using an old software package which was abandoned, and taking ownership of the code isn't always sane. I was actually approached by someone in my area a couple weeks ago who was in just this kind of scenario. and if the system just works - why touch it at all? -- #163933
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Slightly OT but interesting nonetheless...
On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 1:22 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann
volkerar...@googlemail.com wrote:
Am Dienstag 27 September 2011, 13:07:02 schrieb Michael Mol:
Except they have drivers which are buggy and require backported fixes.
and that is the reason stable series exist. They are stable and they backport
fixes. Exclusively.
I hadn't even heard of these until Mark's email 20 minutes ago. It's
useful information. You might have saved us some arguing if you'd
presented it more specific and in an explanatory fashion, rather than
dropping a noun and assuming it was specifically known. I assumed you
meant the kernels maintained by distributions. Obviously, I was wrong,
but Mark's email cleared that up for me.
The reasons might be that they're using an old software
package which was abandoned, and taking ownership of the code isn't
always sane. I was actually approached by someone in my area a couple
weeks ago who was in just this kind of scenario.
and if the system just works - why touch it at all?
Because, in this case, the hardware, which is unreplaceable, went tits
up. Meaning it no longer works. It can't be replaced, and they're SOL
until they get the software ported forward. Their remaining hardware
of the same vintage had already died on them, and they didn't have any
migration path or hedge set up.
Other reasons--and this is why I *loathe* unnuanced if it works,
don't touch it mentalities--include security updates and migration
difficulty in the event of *necessity* of upgrades.
I know someone who's running Ubuntu 7.10 on a server that accepts
incoming, public connections--because they got it working, and didn't
even want to update to the Ubuntu 8.04 LTS, because of a if it just
works, why touch it at all? mentality. Eventually, they _will_ be
hacked as a consequence, even if it's just from someone scanning the
public IPv4 space with tools looking for vulnerable versions of
software.
The other general class of cases is something Gentoo users should be
able to understand in the abstract; the longer you go without
updating, the more difficult and expensive (in terms of time fixing
incompatibilities from un{tested,supported} version jumps, at the very
least) it becomes when you no longer have a choice.
--
:wq
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Slightly OT but interesting nonetheless...
On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 10:43 AM, Michael Mol mike...@gmail.com wrote: SNIP Because, in this case, the hardware, which is unreplaceable, went tits up. Meaning it no longer works. It can't be replaced, and they're SOL until they get the software ported forward. Their remaining hardware of the same vintage had already died on them, and they didn't have any migration path or hedge set up. Other reasons--and this is why I *loathe* unnuanced if it works, don't touch it mentalities--include security updates and migration difficulty in the event of *necessity* of upgrades. I sympathize with the hardware dieing, but one could argue (IMHO anyway) that that is as much a management problem on their part, or those supporting them, as it is an issue with the kernel. If someone is running a system which is critical and isn't planing for how to get new copies of the system or move forward to new hardware over time, then they are painted into a corner. I can pretty much promise you that one area likely to get LOTS of attention in this kernel series IS security updates, at least if they are kernel based security issues. That a major reason, if not the #1 reason, that this series of kernels exists. HTH, Mark
[gentoo-user] pstree for modules ?
Hi, ist there a tool, which displays the dependencies of loaded modules as a tree like pstree does for tasks? Thank you very much for any help in advance! :) Best regards mcc
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Slightly OT but interesting nonetheless...
On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 2:24 PM, Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 10:43 AM, Michael Mol mike...@gmail.com wrote: SNIP Because, in this case, the hardware, which is unreplaceable, went tits up. Meaning it no longer works. It can't be replaced, and they're SOL until they get the software ported forward. Their remaining hardware of the same vintage had already died on them, and they didn't have any migration path or hedge set up. Other reasons--and this is why I *loathe* unnuanced if it works, don't touch it mentalities--include security updates and migration difficulty in the event of *necessity* of upgrades. I sympathize with the hardware dieing, but one could argue (IMHO anyway) that that is as much a management problem on their part, or those supporting them, as it is an issue with the kernel. If someone is running a system which is critical and isn't planing for how to get new copies of the system or move forward to new hardware over time, then they are painted into a corner. I fully concur. IME, if it ain't broke, don't fix it is a large underlying driver for how people paint themselves into those corners. Management's (and a terribly high number of sysadmins') definition of 'broke' doesn't include 'can I recover if it gets hit by lightning tomorrow?' I can pretty much promise you that one area likely to get LOTS of attention in this kernel series IS security updates, at least if they are kernel based security issues. That a major reason, if not the #1 reason, that this series of kernels exists. And I think that's excellent; I wasn't even aware of them until today. -- :wq
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Slightly OT but interesting nonetheless...
On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 11:33 AM, Michael Mol mike...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 2:24 PM, Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com wrote: SNIP I can pretty much promise you that one area likely to get LOTS of attention in this kernel series IS security updates, at least if they are kernel based security issues. That a major reason, if not the #1 reason, that this series of kernels exists. And I think that's excellent; I wasn't even aware of them until today. I understand you weren't aware so I'm just trying to gently help you and others understand why this series exists. If you read through the requirements for submitting patches to the long term stable series one point is that an identical/similar patch must exist in the development tree. For security issues those are addressed pretty quickly, and as long as the code works in the earlier code it's conceptually pretty easy for someone to get it included in the long term series. Of course, I'm not a developer so I don't know what is _really_ required, but conceptually it's doable. Cheers, Mark
[gentoo-user] build problems with vmware-modules
hello everone! i'm having problems running vmware. a recend emerge -DuvaN world upgraded vmware to version 6.5.5 and i upgraded the kernel to # uname -a Linux toxic 2.6.39-gentoo-r3 #4 SMP Thu Sep 22 16:06:58 CEST 2011 x86_64 Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Quad CPU Q9450 @ 2.66GHz GenuineIntel GNU/Linux when i try to run vmware the module updater starts (sounds good, the modules should be gone) and complains it can't find the kernel headers. # ls -l /usr/src/ lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 22 21. Sep 18:00 linux - linux-2.6.39-gentoo-r3 even if i specifically select the directory containing the kernel source it doesn't find them. i then tried to emerge vmware-modules, guessing that might fix it, which fails: /var/tmp/portage/app-emulation/vmware-modules-1.0.0.25-r3/work/vmblock-only/linux/dentry.c: In function ‘DentryOpRevalidate’: /var/tmp/portage/app-emulation/vmware-modules-1.0.0.25-r3/work/vmblock-only/linux/dentry.c:121:4: error: implicit declaration of function ‘path_lookup’ cc1: warning: unrecognized command line option -Wno-unused-but-set-variable At top level: cc1: warning: unrecognized command line option -Wno-unused-but-set-variable make[3]: *** [/var/tmp/portage/app-emulation/vmware-modules-1.0.0.25-r3/work/vmblock-only/linux/dentry.o] Error 1 cc1: warning: unrecognized command line option -Wno-unused-but-set-variable make[2]: *** [_module_/var/tmp/portage/app-emulation/vmware-modules-1.0.0.25-r3/work/vmblock-only] Error 2 make[1]: *** [sub-make] Error 2 make[1]: Leaving directory `/usr/src/linux-2.6.39-gentoo-r3' make: *** [vmblock.ko] Error 2 emake failed full logs attached. am i missing something or is this a bug? /jonas [32;01m * [39;49;00mPackage:app-emulation/vmware-modules-1.0.0.25-r3 [32;01m * [39;49;00mRepository: x-portage [32;01m * [39;49;00mMaintainer: vad...@gentoo.org vmw...@gentoo.org [32;01m * [39;49;00mUSE:amd64 elibc_glibc kernel_linux multilib userland_GNU [32;01m * [39;49;00mFEATURES: sandbox [32;01m*[0m Determining the location of the kernel source code [32;01m*[0m Found kernel source directory: [32;01m*[0m /usr/src/linux [32;01m*[0m Found kernel object directory: [32;01m*[0m /lib/modules/2.6.39-gentoo-r3/build [32;01m*[0m Found sources for kernel version: [32;01m*[0m 2.6.39-gentoo-r3 Unpacking source... Unpacking vmware-modules-1.0.0.25.amd64.tar.bz2 to /var/tmp/portage/app-emulation/vmware-modules-1.0.0.25-r3/work Unpacking ./vmware-modules-1.0.0.25/vmblock.tar to /var/tmp/portage/app-emulation/vmware-modules-1.0.0.25-r3/work Unpacking ./vmware-modules-1.0.0.25/vmci.tar to /var/tmp/portage/app-emulation/vmware-modules-1.0.0.25-r3/work Unpacking ./vmware-modules-1.0.0.25/vmmon.tar to /var/tmp/portage/app-emulation/vmware-modules-1.0.0.25-r3/work Unpacking ./vmware-modules-1.0.0.25/vmnet.tar to /var/tmp/portage/app-emulation/vmware-modules-1.0.0.25-r3/work Unpacking ./vmware-modules-1.0.0.25/vsock.tar to /var/tmp/portage/app-emulation/vmware-modules-1.0.0.25-r3/work Source unpacked in /var/tmp/portage/app-emulation/vmware-modules-1.0.0.25-r3/work Preparing source in /var/tmp/portage/app-emulation/vmware-modules-1.0.0.25-r3/work ... [32;01m*[0m Applying 1.0.0.25-makefile-kernel-dir.patch ... [A[118C [34;01m[ [32;01mok[34;01m ][0m [32;01m*[0m Applying 1.0.0.25-makefile-include.patch ... [A[118C [34;01m[ [32;01mok[34;01m ][0m [32;01m*[0m Applying sched_h-2.6.32.patch ... [A[118C [34;01m[ [32;01mok[34;01m ][0m [32;01m*[0m Applying 1.0.0.25-autoconf-generated.patch ... [A[118C [34;01m[ [32;01mok[34;01m ][0m [32;01m*[0m Applying apic.patch ... [A[118C [34;01m[ [32;01mok[34;01m ][0m [32;01m*[0m Applying 1.0.0.25-sk_sleep.patch ... [A[118C [34;01m[ [32;01mok[34;01m ][0m [32;01m*[0m Applying 1.0.0.25-unlocked_ioctl.patch ... [A[118C [34;01m[ [32;01mok[34;01m ][0m [32;01m*[0m Applying 1.0.0.25-sema.patch ... [A[118C [34;01m[ [32;01mok[34;01m ][0m Source prepared. Configuring source in /var/tmp/portage/app-emulation/vmware-modules-1.0.0.25-r3/work ... Source configured. Compiling source in /var/tmp/portage/app-emulation/vmware-modules-1.0.0.25-r3/work ... [32;01m*[0m Preparing vmblock module make -j9 HOSTCC=x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc CROSS_COMPILE=x86_64-pc-linux-gnu- LDFLAGS= auto-build VMWARE_VER=VME_V65 KERNEL_DIR=/usr/src/linux KBUILD_OUTPUT=/lib/modules/2.6.39-gentoo-r3/build Using 2.6.x kernel build system. make -C /lib/modules/2.6.39-gentoo-r3/build SUBDIRS=$PWD SRCROOT=$PWD/. \ MODULEBUILDDIR= modules make[1]: Entering directory `/usr/src/linux-2.6.39-gentoo-r3' CC [M] /var/tmp/portage/app-emulation/vmware-modules-1.0.0.25-r3/work/vmblock-only/linux/filesystem.o CC [M] /var/tmp/portage/app-emulation/vmware-modules-1.0.0.25-r3/work/vmblock-only/linux/stubs.o CC [M] /var/tmp/portage/app-emulation/vmware-modules-1.0.0.25-r3/work/vmblock-only/linux/dbllnklst.o CC [M]
Re: [gentoo-user] build problems with vmware-modules
i just figured a build log in english might be more useful [32;01m * [39;49;00mPackage:app-emulation/vmware-modules-1.0.0.25-r3 [32;01m * [39;49;00mRepository: x-portage [32;01m * [39;49;00mMaintainer: vad...@gentoo.org vmw...@gentoo.org [32;01m * [39;49;00mUSE:amd64 elibc_glibc kernel_linux multilib userland_GNU [32;01m * [39;49;00mFEATURES: sandbox [32;01m*[0m Determining the location of the kernel source code [32;01m*[0m Found kernel source directory: [32;01m*[0m /usr/src/linux [32;01m*[0m Found kernel object directory: [32;01m*[0m /lib/modules/2.6.39-gentoo-r3/build [32;01m*[0m Found sources for kernel version: [32;01m*[0m 2.6.39-gentoo-r3 Unpacking source... Unpacking vmware-modules-1.0.0.25.amd64.tar.bz2 to /var/tmp/portage/app-emulation/vmware-modules-1.0.0.25-r3/work Unpacking ./vmware-modules-1.0.0.25/vmblock.tar to /var/tmp/portage/app-emulation/vmware-modules-1.0.0.25-r3/work Unpacking ./vmware-modules-1.0.0.25/vmci.tar to /var/tmp/portage/app-emulation/vmware-modules-1.0.0.25-r3/work Unpacking ./vmware-modules-1.0.0.25/vmmon.tar to /var/tmp/portage/app-emulation/vmware-modules-1.0.0.25-r3/work Unpacking ./vmware-modules-1.0.0.25/vmnet.tar to /var/tmp/portage/app-emulation/vmware-modules-1.0.0.25-r3/work Unpacking ./vmware-modules-1.0.0.25/vsock.tar to /var/tmp/portage/app-emulation/vmware-modules-1.0.0.25-r3/work Source unpacked in /var/tmp/portage/app-emulation/vmware-modules-1.0.0.25-r3/work Preparing source in /var/tmp/portage/app-emulation/vmware-modules-1.0.0.25-r3/work ... [32;01m*[0m Applying 1.0.0.25-makefile-kernel-dir.patch ... [A[118C [34;01m[ [32;01mok[34;01m ][0m [32;01m*[0m Applying 1.0.0.25-makefile-include.patch ... [A[118C [34;01m[ [32;01mok[34;01m ][0m [32;01m*[0m Applying sched_h-2.6.32.patch ... [A[118C [34;01m[ [32;01mok[34;01m ][0m [32;01m*[0m Applying 1.0.0.25-autoconf-generated.patch ... [A[118C [34;01m[ [32;01mok[34;01m ][0m [32;01m*[0m Applying apic.patch ... [A[118C [34;01m[ [32;01mok[34;01m ][0m [32;01m*[0m Applying 1.0.0.25-sk_sleep.patch ... [A[118C [34;01m[ [32;01mok[34;01m ][0m [32;01m*[0m Applying 1.0.0.25-unlocked_ioctl.patch ... [A[118C [34;01m[ [32;01mok[34;01m ][0m [32;01m*[0m Applying 1.0.0.25-sema.patch ... [A[118C [34;01m[ [32;01mok[34;01m ][0m Source prepared. Configuring source in /var/tmp/portage/app-emulation/vmware-modules-1.0.0.25-r3/work ... Source configured. Compiling source in /var/tmp/portage/app-emulation/vmware-modules-1.0.0.25-r3/work ... [32;01m*[0m Preparing vmblock module make -j9 HOSTCC=x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc CROSS_COMPILE=x86_64-pc-linux-gnu- LDFLAGS= auto-build VMWARE_VER=VME_V65 KERNEL_DIR=/usr/src/linux KBUILD_OUTPUT=/lib/modules/2.6.39-gentoo-r3/build Using 2.6.x kernel build system. make -C /lib/modules/2.6.39-gentoo-r3/build SUBDIRS=$PWD SRCROOT=$PWD/. \ MODULEBUILDDIR= modules make[1]: Entering directory `/usr/src/linux-2.6.39-gentoo-r3' CC [M] /var/tmp/portage/app-emulation/vmware-modules-1.0.0.25-r3/work/vmblock-only/linux/filesystem.o CC [M] /var/tmp/portage/app-emulation/vmware-modules-1.0.0.25-r3/work/vmblock-only/linux/stubs.o CC [M] /var/tmp/portage/app-emulation/vmware-modules-1.0.0.25-r3/work/vmblock-only/linux/dbllnklst.o CC [M] /var/tmp/portage/app-emulation/vmware-modules-1.0.0.25-r3/work/vmblock-only/linux/file.o CC [M] /var/tmp/portage/app-emulation/vmware-modules-1.0.0.25-r3/work/vmblock-only/linux/block.o CC [M] /var/tmp/portage/app-emulation/vmware-modules-1.0.0.25-r3/work/vmblock-only/linux/module.o In file included from /var/tmp/portage/app-emulation/vmware-modules-1.0.0.25-r3/work/vmblock-only/./include/vmware.h:38:0, from /var/tmp/portage/app-emulation/vmware-modules-1.0.0.25-r3/work/vmblock-only/linux/dbllnklst.c:19: /var/tmp/portage/app-emulation/vmware-modules-1.0.0.25-r3/work/vmblock-only/./include/vm_basic_types.h:108:7: warning: __FreeBSD__ is not defined CC [M] /var/tmp/portage/app-emulation/vmware-modules-1.0.0.25-r3/work/vmblock-only/linux/super.o CC [M] /var/tmp/portage/app-emulation/vmware-modules-1.0.0.25-r3/work/vmblock-only/linux/control.o CC [M] /var/tmp/portage/app-emulation/vmware-modules-1.0.0.25-r3/work/vmblock-only/linux/inode.o cc1: warning: unrecognized command line option -Wno-unused-but-set-variable CC [M] /var/tmp/portage/app-emulation/vmware-modules-1.0.0.25-r3/work/vmblock-only/linux/dentry.o In file included from /var/tmp/portage/app-emulation/vmware-modules-1.0.0.25-r3/work/vmblock-only/linux/vmblockInt.h:40:0, from /var/tmp/portage/app-emulation/vmware-modules-1.0.0.25-r3/work/vmblock-only/linux/module.c:34: /var/tmp/portage/app-emulation/vmware-modules-1.0.0.25-r3/work/vmblock-only/./include/vm_basic_types.h:108:7: warning: __FreeBSD__ is not defined cc1: warning: unrecognized command line option -Wno-unused-but-set-variable In file included from
Re: [gentoo-user] pstree for modules ?
Am 27.09.2011 20:24, schrieb meino.cra...@gmx.de:
Hi,
ist there a tool, which displays the dependencies of loaded modules as
a tree like pstree does for tasks?
Thank you very much for any help in advance! :)
Best regards
mcc
Well, it's not a tool and it cannot print to terminal but you might want
to try out the bash skript below. It depends on media-gfx/graphviz to
create a postscript file visualizing the dependencies. The file will be
opened by your default postscript viewer (evince, okular, etc.).
Hope this helps,
Florian Philipp
psFile=$(tempfile --suffix=.ps)
lsmod | tail -n +2 | awk '{print $1,$4}' | tr ' ,' ' ' |
(
echo 'digraph modules { rankdir=LR; '
while read line; do
dependencies=( $line )
dependingOn=${dependencies[0]}
unset dependencies[0]
for dependant in ${dependencies[@]}; do
echo \$dependant\ - \$dependingOn\;
done
done
echo '}'
) | dot -Tps $psFile
xdg-open $psFile
unlink $psFile
signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] WPA2 connection configuration?
On Tuesday 27 Sep 2011 12:19:06 Alan McKinnon wrote: On Mon, 26 Sep 2011 18:43:13 -0700 Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 5:14 PM, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, 27 Sep 2011 07:08:05 +0700 Reading the wicd homepage it looks like it could help, but how many hours am I going to have to invest to get it running? Understand that I've already dumped maybe 10 hours into getting here. I figure I'll need another 10 hours of work - reading web pages, trying things out and failing - before I feel like I should ask a question here, so that's 20 hours minimum. Please understand that wireless was working on this machine in Windows in under 10 minutes - not 20 hours! Well, it could as little as 10 minutes to configure the /etc/conf.d scripts, for a particular AP (less than a minute if you've done it before) although it could take as long as 20 hours if you *want* to become expert at the most convoluted configurations. Windows does it the right way for a mobile workstation, and wicd follows the same general idea. I am not sure that the vanilla scripts are much different to be honest (except that they don't come with a GUI). At boot-up , a wicd daemon starts, this is the thing that does the heavy lifting and runs as root. When the user's DE starts, you run the wicd-client. It comes with a sensible config dialog where you set sensible stuff like wired interface takes priority over wireless use wireless APs that have been sen before in preference to new ones buttons to define pre-and post-connect scripts if you need them when the client has decided what it's gonna do with your connections, it requests the daemon to do it. It's all very well-thought out and obviously designed with the needs of laptop users in mind. Sort of like NetworkManager working properly without the issues of NetworkManager. I have used NetworkManager in Kubuntu, but don't recall having any problems with it. For me, it all just worked out of the box and connected every time to all APS - WEP, WPA, even the weird funky corporate BS thingy someone installed at work. Took about 10 minutes :-) Same here with the gentoo scripts and wpa_cli, or wpa_gui - should I fancy a GUI to look at. Obviously wicd seems to be more user friendly than fiddling around with init.d scripts and permutations, but in my head it's just a front end to such scripts and wpa_supplicant . . . Have I got this wrong? PS. I'm not advocating the use of anything other than the tool that suits each user - thankfully Gentoo still gives us options in this area. ;-) -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Should I be worried that I won't be able to dual boot in Gentoo?
On Tuesday 27 Sep 2011 13:11:30 Jonas de Buhr wrote: On Monday, September 26, 2011 10:26:03 PM Jonas de Buhr wrote: I am assuming that unlike the old days when I used to boot Linux on PCs using a floppy with SmartBootManager, now we'll need to generate some key/hash for our freshly compiled kernel, then add it to the BIOS firmware and flash the BIOS with it before we are able to boot into it? Is it more complicated than that? how are you going to write to the bios if it doesn't let you? maybe you are determined enough to manually flash the chip every time you update grub but i think thats a buzzkill for 90% of the users ;) Eerhm... If Grub is the bootloader, wouldn't we just need to have a signed version of Grub? depends if we are talking about hashes being saved in the bios or signatures being checked by the bios. hashes would have to be written to the bios everytime the binary of the bootloader changes. signatures would have to be renewed everytime the binary changes. this is even worse because you will most likely need the some private key to do that which you will not get your hands on. if anyone can create the signature, it's pointless. so you would have to rely on your bios vendor to sign every possible binary of the bootloader. and then you're still locked out. Unless ... you could create or set up such signature upon your first boot up and secure it with a new passphrase/token/what have you. I'm thinking that it could become part of the first OS installation, just like you set up a root/user passwd. -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: kde4: no hardware info without sys-apps/hal
Check that the consolekit service is also on at bootup. Besides that, the udisks, upower, consolekit, policykit and udev flags apply here. Check they are on, particularly for kde-base/kdelibs (emerge -pv kdelibs). What kdelibs (and kde, in general) version(s) are you using? Hal hasn't been needed for disk mounting nor anything else for a long time. -- Jesús Guerrero Botella
Re: [gentoo-user] WPA2 connection configuration?
On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 4:04 PM, Mick michaelkintz...@gmail.com wrote: Obviously wicd seems to be more user friendly than fiddling around with init.d scripts and permutations, but in my head it's just a front end to such scripts and wpa_supplicant . . . Have I got this wrong? It is a front-end to its own scripts, not the gentoo netscripts specifically, but the concept is the same and you are basically correct. :)
[gentoo-user] Re: build problems with vmware-modules
On 09/27/2011 10:08 PM, Jonas de Buhr wrote: hello everone! i'm having problems running vmware. a recend emerge -DuvaN world upgraded vmware to version 6.5.5 and i upgraded the kernel to # uname -a Linux toxic 2.6.39-gentoo-r3 #4 SMP Thu Sep 22 16:06:58 CEST 2011 x86_64 Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Quad CPU Q9450 @ 2.66GHz GenuineIntel GNU/Linux With VMWare, you need recent versions to work with non-ancient kernel versions. VMware 7.x should work fine with kernel 2.6.39.
Re: [gentoo-user] pstree for modules ?
Florian Philipp li...@binarywings.net [11-09-28 04:05]:
Am 27.09.2011 20:24, schrieb meino.cra...@gmx.de:
Hi,
ist there a tool, which displays the dependencies of loaded modules as
a tree like pstree does for tasks?
Thank you very much for any help in advance! :)
Best regards
mcc
Well, it's not a tool and it cannot print to terminal but you might want
to try out the bash skript below. It depends on media-gfx/graphviz to
create a postscript file visualizing the dependencies. The file will be
opened by your default postscript viewer (evince, okular, etc.).
Hope this helps,
Florian Philipp
psFile=$(tempfile --suffix=.ps)
lsmod | tail -n +2 | awk '{print $1,$4}' | tr ' ,' ' ' |
(
echo 'digraph modules { rankdir=LR; '
while read line; do
dependencies=( $line )
dependingOn=${dependencies[0]}
unset dependencies[0]
for dependant in ${dependencies[@]}; do
echo \$dependant\ - \$dependingOn\;
done
done
echo '}'
) | dot -Tps $psFile
xdg-open $psFile
unlink $psFile
Hi Florian,
thank you for your mail and the script.
Unfortunately this is a little of a Lambourghini
solution where a bicycle would completly suffice... ;)
I had searched for a terminal related tool as pstree.
Best regards,
mcc
