Re: [gentoo-user] gnome 3.6 ... and related thoughts
Am 28.12.2012 01:23, schrieb Randolph Maaßen: Maybe interesting to read: http://igurublog.wordpress.com/2012/11/05/gnome-et-al-rotting-in-threes/ I think we had this before in the list Thanks for that pointer ... interesting read. Stefan
Re: [gentoo-user] E17 lock screen
Hi Kevin, what exactly you missing on screen lock in E17? I use E17 and screen lock is ok when suspending. It does not need some xscreenlock stuff, it is just part of e. Just check settings-sceen-screen_lock and checkin lock_on_suspend. Thats all:) If you missing something, just make sure you build with all the modules flags. x11-wm/enlightenment-0.17.0 was built with the following: USE=nls pam spell udev ukit -doc -emotion -static-libs ENLIGHTENMENT_MODULES=access backlight battery clock comp conf-applications conf-dialogs conf-display conf-edgebindings conf-interaction conf-intl conf-keybindings conf-menus conf-paths conf-performance conf-randr conf-shelves conf-theme conf-window-manipulation conf-window-remembers connman cpufreq dropshadow everything fileman fileman-opinfo gadman ibar ibox illume2 mixer msgbus notification pager quickaccess shot start syscon systray tasks temperature tiling winlist wizard xkbswitch Robert. On Thu, 27 Dec 2012 18:51:26 -0600 Kevin Brandstatter kjbrandstat...@gmail.com wrote: On 12/27/2012 05:16 PM, Mick wrote: On Saturday 22 Dec 2012 01:29:57 Kevin Brandstatter wrote: So e17 just came out and ive been using for a bit. The only problem ive had with it is that i cant check the option to lock the screen on suspend. I don't think this is a problem on some of the other distributions so thought it could be a policy problem on gentoo. Curious if anyone else uses e17/has this problem and maybe a fix. or just for suggestions of where to look I can't select it here either, but I suspect that this may be because I do not use xscreenlock or equivalent. Have you tried posting either at the e17 or the enlightenm...@gentoo.org mailing lists? yes I first posted to the e17-users list. It was working for other people so i thought it might be distro specific, I emerged xscreensaver to see if that would fix it at all but no luck. I had this problem a while ago and i think it had something to do with polkit settings -Kevin
Re: [gentoo-user] How broken is my raid device /dev/md6?
Hi, what does say: cat /proc/mdstat This happened on running system? The root is still running fine I suppose. Try run smartctl test on both drives. And do not rebuild or recreate md before you do not know all information, you can terribly broke your root. Robert. On Sun, 23 Dec 2012 12:20:48 + Alan Mackenzie a...@muc.de wrote: On Sat, Dec 22, 2012 at 03:24:53PM +0100, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: Am Samstag, 22. Dezember 2012, 13:53:42 schrieb Alan Mackenzie: Hi, all. Just built kernel 3.6.11 and when I tried to install it with lilo, I got this difficult error message: Fatal: Trying to map files from unnamed device 0x (NFS/RAID mirror down ?) . So I eventually had a look at dmesg for my raid setup, and found this - note lines 15 - 19: [2.148410] md: Waiting for all devices to be available before autodetect [2.149891] md: If you don't use raid, use raid=noautodetect [2.151546] md: Autodetecting RAID arrays. [2.180356] md: Scanned 4 and added 4 devices. [2.181819] md: autorun ... [2.183244] md: considering sdb6 ... [2.184666] md: adding sdb6 ... [2.186079] md: sdb3 has different UUID to sdb6 [2.187492] md: adding sda6 ... [2.14] md: sda3 has different UUID to sdb6 [2.190484] md: created md6 [2.191883] md: bindsda6 [2.193224] md: bindsdb6 [2.194538] md: running: sdb6sda6 15 [2.195855] md: kicking non-fresh sda6 from array! 16 [2.197154] md: unbindsda6 17 [2.205840] md: export_rdev(sda6) [2.207176] bio: create slab bio-1 at 1 19 [2.208520] md/raid1:md6: active with 1 out of 2 mirrors [2.209835] md6: detected capacity change from 0 to 34359672832 [2.211187] md: considering sdb3 ... [2.212444] md: adding sdb3 ... [2.213691] md: adding sda3 ... [2.215117] md: created md3 [2.216349] md: bindsda3 [2.217569] md: bindsdb3 [2.218765] md: running: sdb3sda3 [2.220025] md/raid1:md3: active with 2 out of 2 mirrors [2.221231] md3: detected capacity change from 0 to 429507543040 [2.222508] md: ... autorun DONE. [2.230821] md6: unknown partition table . Further perusal of a log file showed this error first happened on 2012-11-29. It would appear /dev/md6 has been firing on one cylinder ever since, and I've been unaware of this. :-( What does it mean for sda6 to be non-fresh? /dev/md6 is my root partition (including /usr :-(), so I can't unmount it for investigation. Could somebody please suggest how I might go about repairing this problem. boot from systemrescuecd mdadm -S /dev/md6 mdadm -A /dev/md6 This didn't quite work, since mdadm -A merely restarted the array without the non-fresh partition. Still it got me searching, and what eventually worked was mdadm /dev/md6 -a /dev/sda6. (Where -a stands for add.) The mdadm man page is very vague for this use case. get some coffee. Make some popcorn. The resync will take some while. Indeed it did. The coffee settled me down somewhat. Thanks again!
Re: [gentoo-user] gconf - failed: not writable
On Thu, Dec 27, 2012 at 09:38:38PM -0600, Bruce Hill wrote: On Thu, Dec 27, 2012 at 07:34:00PM -0700, Joseph wrote: Looking at the package list: http://packages.gentoo.org/package/gnome-base/gconf?arches=fbsd gnome-base/gconf is not mark stable or testing at all, there is a blank space. gconf-2.32.4 was already installed on my system, emerge is trying to rebuild it only, but since it is not available it fails. -- Joseph mingdao@workstation ~ $ eshowkw gnome-base/gconf Keywords for gnome-base/gconf: | | u | | a a p s | n | | l m h i m m p s p | u s | r | p d a p a 6 i p c 3 a x | s l | e | h 6 r p 6 8 p p 6 9 s r 8 | e o | p | a 4 m a 4 k s c 4 0 h c 6 | d t | o --+---+-+--- [I]2.32.4 | + + + o + o ~ + + o + + + | o 2 | gentoo 3.2.5 | ~ ~ ~ o ~ o ~ ~ ~ o ~ ~ ~ | o | gentoo Sorry for replying to my own; must have deleted OP. This morning's world update only wanted to rebuild gconf because they made the gtk dep optional and dropped the doc USE: [ebuild R] gnome-base/gconf-2.32.4:2 USE=gtk%* introspection -debug -ldap -policykit (-doc%) 0 kB It was still listed the same by eshowkw in portage, after eix-sync; and it built with no problems here. Are you still having a problem with this? -- Happy Penguin Computers ') 126 Fenco Drive ( \ Tupelo, MS 38801 ^^ supp...@happypenguincomputers.com 662-269-2706 662-205-6424 http://happypenguincomputers.com/ Don't top-post: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_post#Top-posting
Re: [gentoo-user] gconf - failed: not writable
On Fri, Dec 28, 2012 at 3:54 AM, Bruce Hill da...@happypenguincomputers.com wrote: SNIP Sorry for replying to my own; must have deleted OP. This morning's world update only wanted to rebuild gconf because they made the gtk dep optional and dropped the doc USE: [ebuild R] gnome-base/gconf-2.32.4:2 USE=gtk%* introspection -debug -ldap -policykit (-doc%) 0 kB It was still listed the same by eshowkw in portage, after eix-sync; and it built with no problems here. Are you still having a problem with this? It's fine here also. I expect the OP will be fine also. Like I said yesterday, bugs happen. Wait a day. They get fixed. This sandbox violation seems to show up maybe once a year? Don't know why but it gets fixed fast. Cheers, Mark
Re: [Bulk] Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Anyone switched to eudev yet?
Should perl be in / or /usr? Now that is a good question, if only because Perl traditionally _loathes_ being in /bin, for its own philosophical reasons. Now, as a practical matter? WTF are the scripts written in Perl? Or in anything other than sh? If they're intended for emergency use, they've got some pretty fat dependencies, and should probably be launched from a full rescue environment instead. Or the log files should be copied to some place with more featureful tools available. Can perl be built statically and moved to / by the admin for this corner case? If not you should have all the tools to fix /usr in root and then if anything needs fixing via perl then you should be able to mount /usr or mount -a and have a fully working single user system to run perl from. -- ___ 'Write programs that do one thing and do it well. Write programs to work together. Write programs to handle text streams, because that is a universal interface' (Doug McIlroy) ___
Re: [Bulk] Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Anyone switched to eudev yet?
On Fri, Dec 28, 2012 at 9:10 AM, Kevin Chadwick ma1l1i...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Should perl be in / or /usr? Now that is a good question, if only because Perl traditionally _loathes_ being in /bin, for its own philosophical reasons. Now, as a practical matter? WTF are the scripts written in Perl? Or in anything other than sh? If they're intended for emergency use, they've got some pretty fat dependencies, and should probably be launched from a full rescue environment instead. Or the log files should be copied to some place with more featureful tools available. Can perl be built statically and moved to / by the admin for this corner case? Certainly, but you still have modules to consider...but those can of course be bundled. If not you should have all the tools to fix /usr in root and then if anything needs fixing via perl then you should be able to mount /usr or mount -a and have a fully working single user system to run perl from. Indeed. The only reason I can imagine this to not be the case is if the mount for /usr fails. Most of the reasons imaginable also apply equally strongly to initramfs+root-on-special-mount and everything-in-/usr. -- :wq
Re: [gentoo-user] php CURRENT_TIMESTAMP vs NOW()
On 12/28/12 02:00, Michael Orlitzky wrote: On 12/28/2012 01:44 AM, Joseph wrote: I'm not a PHP programmer but I'll try to explain my problem. I've create table in my php database: DROP TABLE IF EXISTS visual_verify_code; CREATE TABLE visual_verify_code ( oscsid varchar(32) NOT NULL, code varchar(6) NOT NULL, dt TIMESTAMP(12) NOT NULL DEFAULT NOW(), PRIMARY KEY (oscsid) ); Looks fine. It worked OK, after few days I backup my database and try to restore it, but it keeps complaining on the dt: ERROR 1067 (42000) at line 38009: Invalid default value for 'dt' so the database is dropped but never restored. The backup data base contain: create table visual_verify_code ( oscsid varchar(32) not null , code varchar(6) not null , dt timestamp default 'CURRENT_TIMESTAMP' not null , PRIMARY KEY (oscsid) ); CURRENT_TIMESTAMP shouldn't be quoted. How are you backing up the database? Your are correct, when I removed the quotes it worked. I'm backing it up through the backup.php sript that came with osCommerce, I can post it but it is a long one. -- Joseph
Re: [gentoo-user] php CURRENT_TIMESTAMP vs NOW()
On 12/28/12 10:56, Joseph wrote: Your are correct, when I removed the quotes it worked. I'm backing it up through the backup.php sript that came with osCommerce, I can post it but it is a long one. I am... familiar... with osCommerce. You will be much better off doing a mysqldump if you have access. You can run it either on the server or remotely if the MySQL ports on the server are open.
Re: Should /usr be merged with /? (Was: Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Anyone switched to eudev yet?)
TLDR: FHS is unrealistic about its promises. if we move our binaries / libraries to /usr and work it to make sure /usr is mounted, we will better serve FHS goals and also happen to fix some systemic, but silent bugs. On Fri, Dec 28, 2012 at 12:20 PM, Michael Mol mike...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Dec 27, 2012 at 5:37 PM, Mark David Dumlao madum...@gmail.com wrote: Second, going back to problem solving in general - just because you can put down in words what you think the problem is, doesn't mean you've mapped out an accurate or even consistent statement of the problem. There really are cases where it's not enough to just give general airy abstractions and rules of thumb to map out a problem, where it isn't obvious that you're running into edge cases until you really look at it deeply, and yes, the / and /usr split is one of them. So let's look at it deeply, since nobody else will. I'm game. This is the most detailed technical discussion of the problem anyone's cared to actually have, as far as I've been able to observe. For the purposes of clarity I'm going to compare two competing standards, which I will be identifying as follows: s1) FHS, or plain FHS, based on FHS2.3, as identified in http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html s2) merged FHS, or merged standard, based on FHS2.3 as above, but with the caveat that all binaries and libraries are placed in /usr instead of being split between /usr and /, as described by http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/TheCaseForTheUsrMerge It will be helpful to examine how each system reacts to strange cases that challenge FHS. I think some of the following considerations are helpful in determining which one works better. Whichever one is emphasized conspicuously depends on which systems you're interested in maintaining, how many people are using them, your personal taste, sense of justice, etc. Perhaps you could add some of your own. g1) Primary FHS purpose: software/users can predict location of installed files and directories g2) make distro maintainers' job easier g3) make sysads' job easier g4) it does not directly conflict with general practice It is my contention that in all goals, merged FHS is better than plain FHS. Secondly, it is also my contention that plain FHS with a separate /usr does not give enough information to reliably satisfy its own primary goal (g1). Back to the cases below. = === FUNDAMENTAL PROBLEM: / and /usr desync === = Thesis: FHS promise of /usr being sharable is not really deliverable unless it contains the libraries in /. And the we have a standard part is effectively not true anymore, on the matter of the / and /usr split. That is - what the specification says should happen is not happening, on a massive scale, because it turns out that it's not that trivial to determine which binaries go in / and which go in /usr. Give me an example, and I'll describe a reasonably detailed solution. It would be my pleasure. The most fundamental and relevant one for us Gentoo users is this: - how can /usr be sharable among different hosts if it depends on libraries in /? http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#THEUSRHIERARCHY Purpose /usr is the second major section of the filesystem. /usr is shareable, read-only data. That means that /usr should be shareable between various FHS-compliant hosts and must not be written to. Any information that is host-specific or varies with time is stored elsewhere. Many distros place fundamental libraries that many programs in /usr depend on in /lib. Especially bad for Gentoo - libraries in /lib may be recompiled as same-version variants if you want to change the USE flags, resulting in clients that don't synchronously recompile their own libraries in /lib to both silently and noisily fail. In other words, many programs in /usr in practice are functionally inseparable from the libraries in /, conflicting with the notion that they were properly shared in the first place. There are certain implicit assumptions made in the spec that are important. First, it's assumed the binaries are compatible with all the hosts. It's assumed you're not sharing s360 binaries with x86 hosts, or sparc binaries with ppc hosts. From there, it's reasonable to assume that the authors of the spec assume the administrator to be smart enough to not do things like: * Mix compiler versions * Mix program compile options * Place a dependency on a binary that's going to be missing. The spec is very, very much a do what you want within these guidelines; don't shoot yourself in the foot thing, it's very much not a declarative bikeshedding of everything related to it. Unfortunately, FHS actually does explicitly specify the meaning of shareable. http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#THEFILESYSTEM Shareable files are those that can be stored on one host and used on others.
Re: Should /usr be merged with /? (Was: Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Anyone switched to eudev yet?)
On Sat, Dec 29, 2012 at 01:16:34AM +0800, Mark David Dumlao wrote: TLDR: FHS is unrealistic about its promises. if we move our binaries / libraries to /usr and work it to make sure /usr is mounted, we will better serve FHS goals and also happen to fix some systemic, but silent bugs. On Fri, Dec 28, 2012 at 12:20 PM, Michael Mol mike...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Dec 27, 2012 at 5:37 PM, Mark David Dumlao madum...@gmail.com wrote: Second, going back to problem solving in general - just because you can put down in words what you think the problem is, doesn't mean you've mapped out an accurate or even consistent statement of the problem. There really are cases where it's not enough to just give general airy abstractions and rules of thumb to map out a problem, where it isn't obvious that you're running into edge cases until you really look at it deeply, and yes, the / and /usr split is one of them. So let's look at it deeply, since nobody else will. I'm game. This is the most detailed technical discussion of the problem anyone's cared to actually have, as far as I've been able to observe. For the purposes of clarity I'm going to compare two competing standards, which I will be identifying as follows: s1) FHS, or plain FHS, based on FHS2.3, as identified in http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html s2) merged FHS, or merged standard, based on FHS2.3 as above, but with the caveat that all binaries and libraries are placed in /usr instead of being split between /usr and /, as described by http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/TheCaseForTheUsrMerge It will be helpful to examine how each system reacts to strange cases that challenge FHS. I think some of the following considerations are helpful in determining which one works better. Whichever one is emphasized conspicuously depends on which systems you're interested in maintaining, how many people are using them, your personal taste, sense of justice, etc. Perhaps you could add some of your own. g1) Primary FHS purpose: software/users can predict location of installed files and directories g2) make distro maintainers' job easier g3) make sysads' job easier g4) it does not directly conflict with general practice It is my contention that in all goals, merged FHS is better than plain FHS. Secondly, it is also my contention that plain FHS with a separate /usr does not give enough information to reliably satisfy its own primary goal (g1). Back to the cases below. = === FUNDAMENTAL PROBLEM: / and /usr desync === = Thesis: FHS promise of /usr being sharable is not really deliverable unless it contains the libraries in /. And the we have a standard part is effectively not true anymore, on the matter of the / and /usr split. That is - what the specification says should happen is not happening, on a massive scale, because it turns out that it's not that trivial to determine which binaries go in / and which go in /usr. Give me an example, and I'll describe a reasonably detailed solution. It would be my pleasure. The most fundamental and relevant one for us Gentoo users is this: - how can /usr be sharable among different hosts if it depends on libraries in /? http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#THEUSRHIERARCHY Purpose /usr is the second major section of the filesystem. /usr is shareable, read-only data. That means that /usr should be shareable between various FHS-compliant hosts and must not be written to. Any information that is host-specific or varies with time is stored elsewhere. Many distros place fundamental libraries that many programs in /usr depend on in /lib. Especially bad for Gentoo - libraries in /lib may be recompiled as same-version variants if you want to change the USE flags, resulting in clients that don't synchronously recompile their own libraries in /lib to both silently and noisily fail. In other words, many programs in /usr in practice are functionally inseparable from the libraries in /, conflicting with the notion that they were properly shared in the first place. There are certain implicit assumptions made in the spec that are important. First, it's assumed the binaries are compatible with all the hosts. It's assumed you're not sharing s360 binaries with x86 hosts, or sparc binaries with ppc hosts. From there, it's reasonable to assume that the authors of the spec assume the administrator to be smart enough to not do things like: * Mix compiler versions * Mix program compile options * Place a dependency on a binary that's going to be missing. The spec is very, very much a do what you want within these guidelines; don't shoot yourself in the foot thing, it's very much not a declarative bikeshedding of everything related to it. Unfortunately, FHS actually does
Re: Should /usr be merged with /? (Was: Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Anyone switched to eudev yet?)
On Sat, Dec 29, 2012 at 1:33 AM, Bruce Hill da...@happypenguincomputers.com wrote: Dang, I got an Excedrin® headache! Heh. Mike said he was game. -- This email is:[ ] actionable [ ] fyi[x] social Response needed: [ ] yes [x] up to you [ ] no Time-sensitive: [ ] immediate[ ] soon [x] none
Re: [gentoo-user] php CURRENT_TIMESTAMP vs NOW()
On 12/28/12 11:06, Michael Orlitzky wrote: On 12/28/12 10:56, Joseph wrote: Your are correct, when I removed the quotes it worked. I'm backing it up through the backup.php sript that came with osCommerce, I can post it but it is a long one. I am... familiar... with osCommerce. You will be much better off doing a mysqldump if you have access. You can run it either on the server or remotely if the MySQL ports on the server are open. Yes, I run osCommerce on my server. Is the manuall command: mysqldump --opt -ppassword catalog catalog_backup.sql -- Joseph
[gentoo-user] experiences with zfsonlinux?
Hi, so in the Good/better/best filesystem for large, static video library? thread zfs was mentioned, since I just ordered 3 new hdd to replace the current 5 in my box (3 in raid5, 2 in raid1 configuration), I asked myself: instead of raid5+xfs or ext4 or whatever else that might be a sane solution, why not try zfs? But - there aren't so many first hand accounts on people using the spl+zfs kernel modules on linux. Anybody done it? Any caveats? -- #163933
Re: Should /usr be merged with /? (Was: Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Anyone switched to eudev yet?)
On Fri, Dec 28, 2012 at 12:46 PM, Mark David Dumlao madum...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Dec 29, 2012 at 1:33 AM, Bruce Hill da...@happypenguincomputers.com wrote: Dang, I got an Excedrin® headache! Heh. Mike said he was game. It's going to have to wait a bit. I'm not going to be able to get to this this weekend, most likely; the level of detail involved is higher. :) But, thank you. Also, I recommend you give a full read of 2.3, as I'm going to be referencing both it and its substance. -- :wq
Re: [gentoo-user] php CURRENT_TIMESTAMP vs NOW()
On 12/28/12 12:51, Joseph wrote: Yes, I run osCommerce on my server. Is the manuall command: mysqldump --opt -ppassword catalog catalog_backup.sql I think --opt is on by default, but yes, that should do it. If you would like to automate the backup (say, nightly), you can add the following to ~/.my.cnf [1]: [mysqldump] user = your mysql username password = your mysql password Then, when you run the `mysqldump` command, it will use that username and password automatically (and not prompt you). That way you can make the backups in a cron job. [1] Warning: chmod 600 the ~/.my.cnf file if you create one.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Anyone switched to eudev yet? - what was wron with SysVInit?
On 2012-12-28 00:24, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: Well, yeah, that's the point. I want to install Gentoo in my mother's PC, and never have to go to her house because someting broke. I really don't have the time nor the inclination to continue this but... Why would you in that case install Gentoo and not Fedora? They (Fedora) do the kitchen-and-sink-installation with systemd, which begs the question: Why are you using Gentoo in the first place? I'm asking because I honestly don't see why you would want to use it if you just don't want to care about how the system works... Also, all your technical arguments are not really technical at all; It's merely a differing (from mine) philosophical view on how you think a operating system should work (the details on how to solve that is technical on the other hand). Which is what I was trying to show you with my first reply... although a bit convoluted perhaps. And on another note: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fanboy#Fanboy.2Ffangirl I don't really care about what init system I use but I do know what I don't want and that's systemd. But I am a fanboy of Unix philosophy[1]: keep it simple, programs do one thing and do it well, clean interfaces, portability etc... (see how systemd doesn't fit that?). So you can call me a fanboy too if you like, I don't care. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix_philosophy Best regards Peter K
Re: [gentoo-user] php CURRENT_TIMESTAMP vs NOW()
On 12/28/12 13:00, Michael Orlitzky wrote:
On 12/28/12 12:51, Joseph wrote:
Yes, I run osCommerce on my server.
Is the manuall command:
mysqldump --opt -ppassword catalog catalog_backup.sql
I think --opt is on by default, but yes, that should do it. If you would
like to automate the backup (say, nightly), you can add the following to
~/.my.cnf [1]:
[mysqldump]
user = your mysql username
password = your mysql password
Then, when you run the `mysqldump` command, it will use that username
and password automatically (and not prompt you). That way you can make
the backups in a cron job.
[1] Warning: chmod 600 the ~/.my.cnf file if you create one.
Thank you, that will help.
I'm stuck with oSCommerce 2.2rc2 as they don't want to put visa module in the
new oSC ver. 3
{@} * {@} * {@} Happy New Year!
{@} * {@} * {@} * {@}
{@} * {@} * {@}
\ \ \ 2013 / / /
--
Joseph
[gentoo-user] module-init-tools - can not download it
Where is module-init-tools-3.16-r2? My system wants to upgrade it and it is mark stable but I can not download it at all. I know kmod is going to replace it eventually but it is not mark stable yet. -- Joseph
Re: Should /usr be merged with /? (Was: Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Anyone switched to eudev yet?)
On Sat, 29 Dec 2012 01:16:34 +0800 Mark David Dumlao madum...@gmail.com wrote: whatever filesystem type it is. Following this, for any distro to correctly FHS, there needs to be a package manager switch to copy arbitrary packages (and dependent libraries) from /usr to /. As of yet not implemented. Not at all, FUSE is a userspace flesystem meant to be used after single user. The spec says you have to be able to mount other filesystems not all other filesystems. I'd like to see you mount an OpenBSD ffs partition. So no your point does not stand. As has already been said the cure is worse than the disease many of which have been demonstrated to amount to exactly nothing in all cases and likely why Greg refused to specify what was broken. You've completely ignored the part of FHS about the root filesystem and completely made up your own rules to justify Linux having management problems that some irresponsible devs chose to enforce upon all and now eudev is working to fix and bring the core of linux back into compliance and higher reliability. I'm not surprised Michael can't be bothered to reply. I would use your time more constructively than responding to this thread pollution in any comprehensive manner.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Anyone switched to eudev yet? - what was wron with SysVInit?
On Thu, 27 Dec 2012 17:38:15 -0600 Canek Peláez Valdés can...@gmail.com wrote: In SysV, I can *write* the daemon in the init script. In *that* sense, the init system tells the daemon how to do things, Please explain, sure there is the environment that tells a daemon what to do. No shell can tell a c daemon like sshd how to drop priviledges or use systrace but it could do these things for it in a more fine grained manner before it tries and fails itself or if the daemon wishes it to like monit. It's still not telling how but duplicating or removing the need. That's just a bonus that applies to all init systems because shell is so powerful on unix.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Anyone switched to eudev yet? - what was wron with SysVInit?
On 12/28/12 13:15, pk wrote: On 2012-12-28 00:24, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: Well, yeah, that's the point. I want to install Gentoo in my mother's PC, and never have to go to her house because someting broke. I really don't have the time nor the inclination to continue this but... Why would you in that case install Gentoo and not Fedora? They (Fedora) do the kitchen-and-sink-installation with systemd, which begs the question: Why are you using Gentoo in the first place? I'm asking because I honestly don't see why you would want to use it if you just don't want to care about how the system works... This has nothing to do with (e)udev, but Gentoo is actually easier to keep working than any of the distributions that change everything all at once on a Monday morning. Fedora et al. are only easier to maintain for friends/family if you don't plan on having the machine (or friend) for more than a year.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Anyone switched to eudev yet? - what was wron with SysVInit?
On Fri, Dec 28, 2012 at 12:15 PM, pk pete...@coolmail.se wrote: On 2012-12-28 00:24, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: Well, yeah, that's the point. I want to install Gentoo in my mother's PC, and never have to go to her house because someting broke. I really don't have the time nor the inclination to continue this but... Why would you in that case install Gentoo and not Fedora? Because I prefer Gentoo? Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Anyone switched to eudev yet? - what was wron with SysVInit?
On Fri, Dec 28, 2012 at 12:53 PM, Kevin Chadwick ma1l1i...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: On Thu, 27 Dec 2012 17:38:15 -0600 Canek Peláez Valdés can...@gmail.com wrote: In SysV, I can *write* the daemon in the init script. In *that* sense, the init system tells the daemon how to do things, Please explain, sure there is the environment that tells a daemon what to do. No shell can tell a c daemon like sshd how to drop priviledges or use systrace but it could do these things for it in a more fine grained manner before it tries and fails itself or if the daemon wishes it to like monit. It's still not telling how but duplicating or removing the need. That's just a bonus that applies to all init systems because shell is so powerful on unix. Stop thinking in sshd. I can write the *whole* daemon in shell, not in another script file, but inside /etc/init.d/mystupiddaemon (or /etc/rc.whatever); shell is Turing-complete, I can write in it anything I can write in C (or in assembler, or machine code). In that sense, the init system (which uses shell for launching daemons) can be used to determine *how* the daemon behaves (because it uses shell for launching daemons). You can't do that with systemd; there is a clear and unavoidable separation between the starting/stoping/monitoring of daemons, and the daemons themselves. Such distinction doesn't really exists in SysV nor OpenRC (since they use shell, a Turing-complete language, for launching daemons), and therefore you can mixup everything. I agree, it doesn't necessarily means that it *will* happen; but even the possibility is frigthning for a system administrator in a production server. With systemd, that possibility *doesn't exist* (because it doesn't uses a Turing-complete language to start/stop/monitor daemons). Like the clear separation between content and presentation in webapps, or between the model and the view in the MVC design patter, having a clear separation between how you start/stop/monitor your daemon, and what the daemon does, is a good thing. If you don't agree with that, well, we must agree to disagree. Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] module-init-tools - can not download it
On Fri, Dec 28, 2012 at 10:54 AM, Joseph syscon...@gmail.com wrote: Where is module-init-tools-3.16-r2? My system wants to upgrade it and it is mark stable but I can not download it at all. I know kmod is going to replace it eventually but it is not mark stable yet. -- Joseph I have module-init-tools-3.16-r2 here. Consider changing your GENTOO_MIRRORS setting if you think the ones you are using are too slow, or just wait an hour and try again. GENTOO_MIRRORS=http://gentoo.llarian.net/ http://gentoo.mirrors.hoobly.com/ http://ftp.ucsb.edu/pub/mirrors/linux/gentoo/ http://gentoo.mirrors.easynews.com/linux/gentoo/; HTH, Mark
Re: [gentoo-user] module-init-tools - can not download it
On Fri, Dec 28, 2012 at 11:54:15AM -0700, Joseph wrote: Where is module-init-tools-3.16-r2? My system wants to upgrade it and it is mark stable but I can not download it at all. I know kmod is going to replace it eventually but it is not mark stable yet. -- Joseph Same problem you had with gconf? Maybe a problem with your mirror? mingdao@workstation ~ $ eshowkw module-init-tools Keywords for sys-apps/module-init-tools: | | u | | a a p s | n | | l m h i m m p s p | u s | r | p d a p a 6 i p c 3 a x | s l | e | h 6 r p 6 8 p p 6 9 s r 8 | e o | p | a 4 m a 4 k s c 4 0 h c 6 | d t | o ---+---+-+--- 3.6-r1 | ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ | # 0 | gentoo 3.10| ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ | # | gentoo 3.11.1| ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ | # | gentoo 3.12-r1 | ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ | # | gentoo 3.13| ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ | # | gentoo [I]3.16-r2 | + + + + + + ~ + + + + + + | o | gentoo Have you run eix-sync today? Use eshowkw pkg when you want to know versions/slots. -- Happy Penguin Computers ') 126 Fenco Drive ( \ Tupelo, MS 38801 ^^ supp...@happypenguincomputers.com 662-269-2706 662-205-6424 http://happypenguincomputers.com/ Don't top-post: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_post#Top-posting
Re: [gentoo-user] module-init-tools - can not download it
On 12/28/12 11:21, Mark Knecht wrote: On Fri, Dec 28, 2012 at 10:54 AM, Joseph syscon...@gmail.com wrote: Where is module-init-tools-3.16-r2? My system wants to upgrade it and it is mark stable but I can not download it at all. I know kmod is going to replace it eventually but it is not mark stable yet. -- Joseph I have module-init-tools-3.16-r2 here. Consider changing your GENTOO_MIRRORS setting if you think the ones you are using are too slow, or just wait an hour and try again. GENTOO_MIRRORS=http://gentoo.llarian.net/ http://gentoo.mirrors.hoobly.com/ http://ftp.ucsb.edu/pub/mirrors/linux/gentoo/ http://gentoo.mirrors.easynews.com/linux/gentoo/; HTH, Mark Thaks Mark, yes your mirrors worked. It makes me wonder what is wrong with my mirrors (they all failed) :-/ GENTOO_MIRRORS=ftp://linux.rz.ruhr-uni-bochum.de/gentoo-mirror/ ftp://distro.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/distributions/gentoo/ http://distro.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/distributions/gentoo/ http://mirror.mdfnet.se/mirror/gentoo; -- Joseph
Re: [gentoo-user] module-init-tools - can not download it
On Fri, Dec 28, 2012 at 01:04:04PM -0700, Joseph wrote: Thaks Mark, yes your mirrors worked. It makes me wonder what is wrong with my mirrors (they all failed) :-/ GENTOO_MIRRORS=ftp://linux.rz.ruhr-uni-bochum.de/gentoo-mirror/ ftp://distro.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/distributions/gentoo/ http://distro.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/distributions/gentoo/ http://mirror.mdfnet.se/mirror/gentoo; -- Joseph Might also try http://gentoo.osuosl.org/ -- Happy Penguin Computers ') 126 Fenco Drive ( \ Tupelo, MS 38801 ^^ supp...@happypenguincomputers.com 662-269-2706 662-205-6424 http://happypenguincomputers.com/ Don't top-post: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_post#Top-posting
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Anyone switched to eudev yet? - what was wron with SysVInit?
On Dec 29, 2012 2:18 AM, Canek Peláez Valdés can...@gmail.com wrote: Stop thinking in sshd. I can write the *whole* daemon in shell, not in another script file, but inside /etc/init.d/mystupiddaemon (or /etc/rc.whatever); shell is Turing-complete, I can write in it anything I can write in C (or in assembler, or machine code). In that sense, the init system (which uses shell for launching daemons) can be used to determine *how* the daemon behaves (because it uses shell for launching daemons). You can't do that with systemd; there is a clear and unavoidable separation between the starting/stoping/monitoring of daemons, and the daemons themselves. Such distinction doesn't really exists in SysV nor OpenRC (since they use shell, a Turing-complete language, for launching daemons), and therefore you can mixup everything. I agree, it doesn't necessarily means that it *will* happen; but even the possibility is frigthning for a system administrator in a production server. You got it wrong. SysAdmins, especially Enterprise SysAdmins, will prefer total control of the startup process. If a daemon is extremely important for enterprise operation, any SysAdmin worth his/her salary will fire up vi (or emacs) and pepper the code with asserts and instrumentation. Having a Turing-complete language for starting a script is one of our (= Enterprise SysAdmins) weapon for fixing up glitches due to some changes introduced by the package maintainer. An example: A dev needs a newer version of a package. We upgrade it. It refuses to startup properly, but going back is out of the question because the dev *needs* the features only available in the new version. We check the (extremely) detailed logs. We find out what made the package balked. We do some changes, and all is well. Another example: After a security audit, we are required to upgrade a certain daemon to a new version, despite the current version running well. As we feared, the new version can't start. We use the detailed log to find out what happened. We made changes. It works again. In the two examples I give, having a C program doing all the starting will certainly mean that complex things have to be done, not to mention the headache of compiling them -- and possibly fail. sh scripts are much easier to modify. Like the clear separation between content and presentation in webapps, or between the model and the view in the MVC design patter, having a clear separation between how you start/stop/monitor your daemon, and what the daemon does, is a good thing. That is the Theory. In Practice, things don't work that way. Murphy's Law reigns supreme. Rgds, --
Re: [gentoo-user] experiences with zfsonlinux?
Am 2012-12-28 18:52, schrieb Volker Armin Hemmann: Hi, so in the Good/better/best filesystem for large, static video library? thread zfs was mentioned, since I just ordered 3 new hdd to replace the current 5 in my box (3 in raid5, 2 in raid1 configuration), I asked myself: instead of raid5+xfs or ext4 or whatever else that might be a sane solution, why not try zfs? Sure, go ahead :-) But - there aren't so many first hand accounts on people using the spl+zfs kernel modules on linux. Anybody done it? Any caveats? I used it in a former server in my basement, right now the zfs-pool is out of order simply because I have no SATA-ports available right now (broken mainboard etc) It is the equivalent of a RAID1 mirror, 2 disks in a tank. As you may have researched already it is not necessary to partition the disks, back then it was recommended to create the pool/mirror by using the /dev/disk/by-id/ device-notation. That pool worked very well for me and even caught SATA-related errors with the occasional scrub-run here and then. I even was able to migrate that mirror from zfs-fuse to zfs-on-linux without any problems. As soon as I have a box with enough hdd-bays again I will re-import that pool for sure. Good luck, Stefan
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Anyone switched to eudev yet? - what was wron with SysVInit?
On Fri, Dec 28, 2012 at 2:17 PM, Pandu Poluan pa...@poluan.info wrote: On Dec 29, 2012 2:18 AM, Canek Peláez Valdés can...@gmail.com wrote: Stop thinking in sshd. I can write the *whole* daemon in shell, not in another script file, but inside /etc/init.d/mystupiddaemon (or /etc/rc.whatever); shell is Turing-complete, I can write in it anything I can write in C (or in assembler, or machine code). In that sense, the init system (which uses shell for launching daemons) can be used to determine *how* the daemon behaves (because it uses shell for launching daemons). You can't do that with systemd; there is a clear and unavoidable separation between the starting/stoping/monitoring of daemons, and the daemons themselves. Such distinction doesn't really exists in SysV nor OpenRC (since they use shell, a Turing-complete language, for launching daemons), and therefore you can mixup everything. I agree, it doesn't necessarily means that it *will* happen; but even the possibility is frigthning for a system administrator in a production server. You got it wrong. I don't believe so. SysAdmins, especially Enterprise SysAdmins, will prefer total control of the startup process. If a daemon is extremely important for enterprise operation, any SysAdmin worth his/her salary will fire up vi (or emacs) and pepper the code with asserts and instrumentation. Pandou, I have worked as SysAdmin. Several years. Total control has degrees; if you program in assembly language, you have even more control. And with systemd you can still fire up vi or Emacs (or, if you prefer total control, ed), and fix *your* daemon. If systemd has a bug, you can still look at the code, and fix *that* code. What you say doesn't make any sense: any SysAdmin worth his/her salary will fire up vi (or emacs) and pepper the code with asserts and instrumentation works in SysV, OpenRC, systemd, and anything else as long as you have the source code. The only problem resides in proprietary code. Having a Turing-complete language for starting a script is one of our (= Enterprise SysAdmins) weapon for fixing up glitches due to some changes introduced by the package maintainer. Again, you make no sense: you can fix glitches as long as you have the source code. You can roll your own packages (I maintain my overlay to get rid of OpenRC on my systems). That some SysAdmins can *only* code properly (if at all) in shell is a problem of *those* SysAdmins. A worthy SysAdmin, if encountering a bug with systemd, can easily check out the C code and fix it (it's relatively simple, not kernel-level). And having a separation between the starting/stoping of daemons and the daemons themselves makes it easier to check where the bug lies, and fixing accordingly, instead of patching blindly to workaround the real problem. An example: A dev needs a newer version of a package. We upgrade it. It refuses to startup properly, but going back is out of the question because the dev *needs* the features only available in the new version. We check the (extremely) detailed logs. We find out what made the package balked. We do some changes, and all is well. How that is not possible in systemd? Another example: After a security audit, we are required to upgrade a certain daemon to a new version, despite the current version running well. As we feared, the new version can't start. We use the detailed log to find out what happened. We made changes. It works again. How that is not possible in systemd? Have you ever used it? In the two examples I give, having a C program doing all the starting will certainly mean that complex things have to be done, not to mention the headache of compiling them -- and possibly fail. You are assuming the problem is going to be in systemd's side. First of all, that will not always be the case. Second, if it is the case, you go and fix it. You still have the code. SysAdmin's laziness is not an excuse to do things wrong. It's also more complex to add comments to the code, it's more complex to take notes of the procedures rolling servers, it's more complex to keep a database of the versions running in each machine, and what hardware has and when it was installed. It's always more complex to properly do the job. sh scripts are much easier to modify. Read above. Like the clear separation between content and presentation in webapps, or between the model and the view in the MVC design patter, having a clear separation between how you start/stop/monitor your daemon, and what the daemon does, is a good thing. That is the Theory. In Practice, things don't work that way. Murphy's Law reigns supreme. Then we should agree to disagree in this particular issue. Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] module-init-tools - can not download it
On Fri, Dec 28, 2012 at 12:04 PM, Joseph syscon...@gmail.com wrote: SNIP Thaks Mark, yes your mirrors worked. It makes me wonder what is wrong with my mirrors (they all failed) :-/ GENTOO_MIRRORS=ftp://linux.rz.ruhr-uni-bochum.de/gentoo-mirror/ ftp://distro.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/distributions/gentoo/ http://distro.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/distributions/gentoo/ http://mirror.mdfnet.se/mirror/gentoo; -- Joseph Joseph, In all likelihood there is NOTHING wrong with your mirrors. Consider the idea that: 1) There are 1000 mirrors out there. (made up number - I have no idea how many) 2) There's a glitch in your server or it's internet connection, or it's simply off-line for a short time for maintenance or backups or something. 3) The Gentoo-devs push out an update. The result: 1) My mirror gets the update 2) Your mirror does not, at least for a little while As I'm guessing from these questions that you are relatively new to Gentoo keep in mind that Gentoo is a BIG thing in terms of all the servers around the world that are supporting it. There's no way 999 servers should wait for one more to come on-line. What if it never comes on-line? So they push stuff out, it goes where it can, and where it cannot go it goes later, or never. You get to choose your mirrors. You get to change your mirrors. (Using mirrorselect IIRC) You're free to change them. I have lots of times. WRT your mirrors, I've never used _any_ of them so I don't know they are reliable. I agree with Bruce that http://gentoo.osuosl.org/ tends to be very reliable. I run Gentoo on a number of machine here at home. I purposely use different mirrors on each one to give me a little more redundancy and then rsync between them is one of them cannot get the data from outside. I do use http://gentoo.osuosl.org/ on another machine, just not the one I'm on right now. (And referring to my little initramfs thread, the one that has now booted from an initramfs inside the kernel as per Neil's inputs!) yipee! HTH, Mark
[gentoo-user] Booting the Kernel as UEFI App
Hi Guys, I just got my laptop back from repair, the main board and harddrive are changed, so bye bye data. I haven't created any data on gentoo, i couldn't even set up the system before it crashed. So I'm going to setup a new install, and I have heard that you can set up the kernel as UEFI application[1]. I have booted the system from UEFI grub2 before, so UEFI works and I know that the BIOS/UEFI has a boot manager. Has anyone here did this before or is this a bad idea ? [1]: http://en.gentoo-wiki.com/wiki/UEFI -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best regards Randolph Maaßen
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Anyone switched to eudev yet? - what was wron with SysVInit?
On 2012-12-28 20:01, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: Because I prefer Gentoo? That's what I really don't understand! You say you don't want to care about the system which implies Fedora or any other install-and-forget distro. I care about the system which is why I run Gentoo. Do you have USE=* in make.conf too? That last part is not to be taken seriously but that's (basically) what the masses are running (and from what I can interpret your emails that's what you want). I'm done, thanks for listening. Best regards Peter K
Re: [gentoo-user] Building an initramfs into the kernel
On Thu, Dec 27, 2012 at 3:24 PM, Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Dec 27, 2012 at 9:33 AM, Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Dec 26, 2012 at 3:50 PM, Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Dec 26, 2012 at 3:03 PM, Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk wrote:
On Wed, 26 Dec 2012 14:09:34 -0800, Mark Knecht wrote:
At this point I don't know that 1) the image is actually in the
kernel, or 2) that my init thingy ;-) image would work, but at least
the process of putting it together is verifiable.
That's why I put in all the debug stuff, so I could watch the progress of
the script as it ran.
OK, I'll look at combining that part my my scripts, or just using yours,
etc.
Thanks for the help,
Mark
Neil,
One more question if I might. What's the simplest way to regenerate
the kernel when there are no kernel changes but you have changes to
the programs that are going into the initramfs? make clean seems like
overkill to me, and it's very slow to boot.
SNIP
Answering self: The Gentoo wiki covered this at the end:
http://en.gentoo-wiki.com/wiki/Initramfs
I tried it and it seemed to work, although I've not yet successfully
booted this kernel so there may well be some issues left to deal with.
Cheers
OK, this is all finished up and working now. I'll have to give it some
time to make sure nothing weird pops up but it was a good learning
experience for me.
The two biggest problems I had along way:
1) I used an older init script that I had put together a year back
with I played with this for an afternoon. I had trouble back then with
/dev so I copied over pretty much everything into my initramfs. (As
per the Gentoo initramfs wiki) This time around, using that script, I
still had troubles until I discovered the
mount -t devtmpfs none /dev
command in Neil's script. That allowed me to move forward.
2) Turns out the config format for copying files is target/source, not
source/target like most copies. This resulted in my mdadm.conf file
going into the wrong directory.
Once I figured those two out the machine booted cleanly.
I'm going to continue working on this. I'd like to do a better init
script, maybe add some more stuff to play with. That said I'll attach
in-line the stuff I ended up with for anyone else who comes across
this thread in the future.
Cheers,
Mark
c2stable src # ls -la
total 28
drwxr-xr-x 4 root root 4096 Dec 28 15:04 .
drwxr-xr-x 14 root root 4096 Dec 25 2011 ..
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root0 Dec 29 2010 .keep
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 574 Dec 28 11:45 initramfs.config
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 562 Dec 28 10:44 initramfs_init_new.sh
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 19 Dec 27 07:49 linux - linux-3.6.11-gentoo
drwxr-xr-x 24 root root 4096 Dec 28 09:49 linux-3.2.1-gentoo-r2
drwxr-xr-x 24 root root 4096 Dec 28 11:46 linux-3.6.11-gentoo
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 70 Dec 28 06:58 mdadm_initramfs.conf
c2stable src # cat initramfs.config
dir /bin 755 0 0
file /bin/busybox /bin/busybox 755 0 0
slink /bin/sh busybox 777 0 0
dir /realroot 755 0 0
dir /etc 755 0 0
dir /proc 755 0 0
dir /sys 755 0 0
dir /sbin 755 0 0
file /sbin/mdadm /sbin/mdadm 755 0 0
file /sbin/e2fsck /sbin/e2fsck 755 0 0
dir /lib 755 0 0
file /lib/libext2fs.so /usr/lib64/libext2fs.so 755 0 0
file /etc/mdadm.conf /usr/src/mdadm_initramfs.conf 755 0 0
dir /dev 755 0 0
nod /dev/console 600 0 0 c 5 1
nod /dev/null 666 0 0 c 1 3
nod /dev/tty 666 0 0 c 5 0
nod /dev/urandom 666 0 0 c 1 9
file /init /usr/src/initramfs_init_new.sh 755 0 0
c2stable src # cat initramfs_init_new.sh
#!/bin/busybox sh
rescue_shell() {
echo Something went wrong. Dropping you to a shell.
busybox --install -s
exec /bin/sh
}
# Mount the /proc and /sys filesystems.
mount -t proc none /proc
mount -t sysfs none /sys
mount -t devtmpfs none /dev
# Do your stuff here.
echo This script mounts rootfs and boots it up, nothing more!
mdadm --assemble /dev/md3
# Mount the root filesystem.
mount -o ro /dev/md3 /realroot || rescue_shell
# Clean up.
umount /dev
umount /proc
umount /sys
# Boot the real thing.
exec switch_root /realroot /sbin/init
c2stable src # cat mdadm_initramfs.conf
ARRAY /dev/md/3 metadata=1.2 UUID=de47f991:86d98467:0637635b:9c6d0591
c2stable src #
Re: [gentoo-user] experiences with zfsonlinux?
Yeah, I use ZoL for my home server (mostly pictures, videos, and mp3s) and it works just fine. SSD for the / and /boot, and then ZFS for all the important data in a mirrored pool. Highly recommended. (Just updated to 3.7.1 kernel and 0.6.0-rc13 ZoL, with no issues, in case you were worried about usage with current pieces.) ScottE On Fri, Dec 28, 2012 at 12:29 PM, Stefan G. Weichinger li...@xunil.atwrote: Am 2012-12-28 18:52, schrieb Volker Armin Hemmann: Hi, so in the Good/better/best filesystem for large, static video library? thread zfs was mentioned, since I just ordered 3 new hdd to replace the current 5 in my box (3 in raid5, 2 in raid1 configuration), I asked myself: instead of raid5+xfs or ext4 or whatever else that might be a sane solution, why not try zfs? Sure, go ahead :-) But - there aren't so many first hand accounts on people using the spl+zfs kernel modules on linux. Anybody done it? Any caveats? I used it in a former server in my basement, right now the zfs-pool is out of order simply because I have no SATA-ports available right now (broken mainboard etc) It is the equivalent of a RAID1 mirror, 2 disks in a tank. As you may have researched already it is not necessary to partition the disks, back then it was recommended to create the pool/mirror by using the /dev/disk/by-id/ device-notation. That pool worked very well for me and even caught SATA-related errors with the occasional scrub-run here and then. I even was able to migrate that mirror from zfs-fuse to zfs-on-linux without any problems. As soon as I have a box with enough hdd-bays again I will re-import that pool for sure. Good luck, Stefan
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Anyone switched to eudev yet? - what was wron with SysVInit?
On Fri, 28 Dec 2012 13:14:46 -0600 Canek Peláez Valdés can...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Dec 28, 2012 at 12:53 PM, Kevin Chadwick ma1l1i...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: On Thu, 27 Dec 2012 17:38:15 -0600 Canek Peláez Valdés can...@gmail.com wrote: In SysV, I can *write* the daemon in the init script. In *that* sense, the init system tells the daemon how to do things, Please explain, sure there is the environment that tells a daemon what to do. No shell can tell a c daemon like sshd how to drop priviledges or use systrace but it could do these things for it in a more fine grained manner before it tries and fails itself or if the daemon wishes it to like monit. It's still not telling how but duplicating or removing the need. That's just a bonus that applies to all init systems because shell is so powerful on unix. Stop thinking in sshd. I can write the *whole* daemon in shell, not in another script file, but inside /etc/init.d/mystupiddaemon (or /etc/rc.whatever); shell is Turing-complete, I can write in it anything I can write in C (or in assembler, or machine code). In that sense, the init system (which uses shell for launching daemons) can be used to determine *how* the daemon behaves (because it uses shell for launching daemons). That's what you meant, how disappointing. Yeah I've knocked up a few very useful ones myself but call them scripts (Such as grepping logs or dns servers and feeding real daemons with info). You can't do that with systemd; there is a clear and unavoidable You can't is better is it? Yet you can exec a daemon written in shell with systemd. separation between the starting/stoping/monitoring of daemons, and the daemons themselves. Such distinction doesn't really exists in SysV nor OpenRC (since they use shell, a Turing-complete language, for With regular expressions to get the exact pid but /usr/sbin/sshd -f /etc/ssh/sshd_config = start /usr/bin/pkill sshd = stop or many other incantations There are many tools that do this job just fine. If systemd just did this and was there by default I would consider replacing monit with it. Like a reliable root filesystem I want a reliable pid 1. launching daemons), and therefore you can mixup everything. I agree, it doesn't necessarily means that it *will* happen; but even the possibility is frigthning for a system administrator in a production server. With systemd, that possibility *doesn't exist* (because it doesn't uses a Turing-complete language to start/stop/monitor daemons). Doesn't frighten me one bit. I know the startup almost inside out of my servers, doesn't take long on OpenBSD. On Linux it would take longer but nowhere near reviewing systemd and knowing C has nothing to do with the immediate control shell can provide under any init system including systemd but the Turing complete argument is simply propaganda as well as all the features to distract from the fundamental flaws in the design of systemd. Like the clear separation between content and presentation in webapps, or between the model and the view in the MVC design patter, having a clear separation between how you start/stop/monitor your daemon, and what the daemon does, is a good thing. If you don't agree with that, well, we must agree to disagree. There is nothing else, you exec or parse a script or daemon just as systemd does. The only difference is systemd tracking double forked processes with cgroups and I have already provided a link that refutes any point to do so. There are corner cases that are easily manageable and it certainly isn't worth the sacrifice of POSIX compatibility and so Linux applicability. Linus has said cgroups are a horrible but necessary evil, which in my opinion means avoid them unless you have no choice. There is a perfectly good and in my opinion superior choice, but I love simplicity, it has served me well.
Re: [gentoo-user] experiences with zfsonlinux?
Am Freitag, 28. Dezember 2012, 15:21:54 schrieb Scott Ellis: Yeah, I use ZoL for my home server (mostly pictures, videos, and mp3s) and it works just fine. SSD for the / and /boot, and then ZFS for all the important data in a mirrored pool. Highly recommended. (Just updated to 3.7.1 kernel and 0.6.0-rc13 ZoL, with no issues, in case you were worried about usage with current pieces.) I am conservative with kernels uname -a Linux localhost 3.4.24 #1 SMP Sun Dec 23 17:47:00 CET 2012 x86_64 AMD Phenom(tm) II X4 955 Processor AuthenticAMD GNU/Linux so that is not a concern of mine. I am more worried about stability. I plan to put /var and my data pile on it. While losing the first would be a time intensive incident losing the second would be really painful. Even with backups. But it would something I could recover from or I would not waste time thinking about zfs - mdadm+whatever fs does work good enough. Glück Auf, Volker -- #163933
Re: [gentoo-user] /dev/shm permissions drwxr-xr-x root:root ?
On Fri, Dec 28, 2012 at 02:10:26PM +0800, William Kenworthy wrote On 28/12/12 11:25, Walter Dnes wrote: chmod 755 /dev/shm/hello /dev/shm/hello as a user (not root) wdk@moriah /home/vm/qemu/mail $ vi /dev/shm/hello wdk@moriah /home/vm/qemu/mail $ chmod 755 /dev/shm/hello wdk@moriah /home/vm/qemu/mail $ /dev/shm/hello Hello World wdk@moriah /home/vm/qemu/mail $ worked fine. and moriah ~ # mount|grep shm none on /dev/shm type tmpfs (rw,relatime) moriah ~ # Are you on regular udev? I thought that /dev/shm was supposed to be noexec as a security measure. -- Walter Dnes waltd...@waltdnes.org I don't run desktop environments; I run useful applications
Re: [gentoo-user] Building an initramfs into the kernel
On Thu, 27 Dec 2012 09:33:48 -0800, Mark Knecht wrote: One more question if I might. What's the simplest way to regenerate the kernel when there are no kernel changes but you have changes to the programs that are going into the initramfs? make clean seems like overkill to me, and it's very slow to boot. Plain make works for me, it appears the initramfs is rebuilt every time, evewn if there are no changes. To be extra sure, you could delete usr/initramfs_data.cpio from the source tree before running make. -- Neil Bothwick You are a completely unique individual, just like everybody else. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Anyone switched to eudev yet?
On Thu, 27 Dec 2012 11:02:54 -0800, Mark Knecht wrote: Again, I don't really care about the pain - in a sick sense I sort of like it (more if it wore high heels...) - but I'm gonna learn this initramfs stuff and make it work because I suspect it's at least a good thing to know. I said the files worked for me, I never said they worked first time :) Like you, I tried it more as a learning exercise when the whole udev/init thingy first came up. -- Neil Bothwick WinErr 018: Unrecoverable error - System has been destroyed. Buy a new one. Old Windows licence is not valid anymore. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] {OT} anyone tried egroupware?
Has anyone tried egroupware? Any opinions on it? - Grant Yes. I have been using the community version for several years. Has anyone tried the chat feature of egroupware? - Grant
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Anyone switched to eudev yet? - what was wron with SysVInit?
On Fri, Dec 28, 2012 at 4:40 PM, pk pete...@coolmail.se wrote: On 2012-12-28 20:01, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: Because I prefer Gentoo? That's what I really don't understand! You say you don't want to care about the system which implies Fedora or any other install-and-forget distro. I care about the system which is why I run Gentoo. Do you have USE=* in make.conf too? That last part is not to be taken seriously but that's (basically) what the masses are running (and from what I can interpret your emails that's what you want). I have USE=-kde -qt4 in my desktop/laptop. Last time I tried that with RedHat and Mandrake (many, *many* years ago), it wasn't easy, and I'm not certain that it is possible. Like everyone here, I use Gentoo for it's flexibility at the moment of configuring it. That doesn't mean I want to keep track of absolutely everything in my machines; I love to set them up. Once. Then I love to forget about them; they should just work. I'm done, thanks for listening. Thanks to you. Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Anyone switched to eudev yet? - what was wron with SysVInit?
On Fri, Dec 28, 2012 at 5:23 PM, Kevin Chadwick ma1l1i...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: On Fri, 28 Dec 2012 13:14:46 -0600 Canek Peláez Valdés can...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Dec 28, 2012 at 12:53 PM, Kevin Chadwick ma1l1i...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: On Thu, 27 Dec 2012 17:38:15 -0600 Canek Peláez Valdés can...@gmail.com wrote: In SysV, I can *write* the daemon in the init script. In *that* sense, the init system tells the daemon how to do things, Please explain, sure there is the environment that tells a daemon what to do. No shell can tell a c daemon like sshd how to drop priviledges or use systrace but it could do these things for it in a more fine grained manner before it tries and fails itself or if the daemon wishes it to like monit. It's still not telling how but duplicating or removing the need. That's just a bonus that applies to all init systems because shell is so powerful on unix. Stop thinking in sshd. I can write the *whole* daemon in shell, not in another script file, but inside /etc/init.d/mystupiddaemon (or /etc/rc.whatever); shell is Turing-complete, I can write in it anything I can write in C (or in assembler, or machine code). In that sense, the init system (which uses shell for launching daemons) can be used to determine *how* the daemon behaves (because it uses shell for launching daemons). That's what you meant, how disappointing. Yeah I've knocked up a few very useful ones myself but call them scripts (Such as grepping logs or dns servers and feeding real daemons with info). You can't do that with systemd; there is a clear and unavoidable You can't is better is it? Yet you can exec a daemon written in shell with systemd. separation between the starting/stoping/monitoring of daemons, and the daemons themselves. Such distinction doesn't really exists in SysV nor OpenRC (since they use shell, a Turing-complete language, for With regular expressions to get the exact pid but /usr/sbin/sshd -f /etc/ssh/sshd_config = start /usr/bin/pkill sshd = stop or many other incantations There are many tools that do this job just fine. If systemd just did this and was there by default I would consider replacing monit with it. Like a reliable root filesystem I want a reliable pid 1. launching daemons), and therefore you can mixup everything. I agree, it doesn't necessarily means that it *will* happen; but even the possibility is frigthning for a system administrator in a production server. With systemd, that possibility *doesn't exist* (because it doesn't uses a Turing-complete language to start/stop/monitor daemons). Doesn't frighten me one bit. I know the startup almost inside out of my servers, doesn't take long on OpenBSD. On Linux it would take longer but nowhere near reviewing systemd and knowing C has nothing to do with the immediate control shell can provide under any init system including systemd but the Turing complete argument is simply propaganda as well as all the features to distract from the fundamental flaws in the design of systemd. Like the clear separation between content and presentation in webapps, or between the model and the view in the MVC design patter, having a clear separation between how you start/stop/monitor your daemon, and what the daemon does, is a good thing. If you don't agree with that, well, we must agree to disagree. There is nothing else, you exec or parse a script or daemon just as systemd does. The only difference is systemd tracking double forked processes with cgroups and I have already provided a link that refutes any point to do so. There are corner cases that are easily manageable and it certainly isn't worth the sacrifice of POSIX compatibility and so Linux applicability. Linus has said cgroups are a horrible but necessary evil, which in my opinion means avoid them unless you have no choice. There is a perfectly good and in my opinion superior choice, but I love simplicity, it has served me well. I don't doub it. As I said, the only thing to do is to agree to disagree. Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] /dev/shm permissions drwxr-xr-x root:root ?
Walter Dnes wrote: On Fri, Dec 28, 2012 at 02:10:26PM +0800, William Kenworthy wrote On 28/12/12 11:25, Walter Dnes wrote: chmod 755 /dev/shm/hello /dev/shm/hello as a user (not root) wdk@moriah /home/vm/qemu/mail $ vi /dev/shm/hello wdk@moriah /home/vm/qemu/mail $ chmod 755 /dev/shm/hello wdk@moriah /home/vm/qemu/mail $ /dev/shm/hello Hello World wdk@moriah /home/vm/qemu/mail $ worked fine. and moriah ~ # mount|grep shm none on /dev/shm type tmpfs (rw,relatime) moriah ~ # Are you on regular udev? I thought that /dev/shm was supposed to be noexec as a security measure. Here is some info on mine, while you are waiting on William. root@fireball / # ls -al /dev/shm total 4 drwxrwxrwt 2 root root60 Dec 3 18:20 . drwxr-xr-x 17 root root 4360 Dec 28 15:30 .. -rwxr-xr-x 1 dale users 32 Dec 3 18:20 sem.lastpassffsemaphore root@fireball / # equery list udev * Searching for udev ... [IP-] [ ] sys-fs/udev-171-r9:0 root@fireball / # Does that help any? If I read that correctly, it is executable. At least it is for the one that is there. Dale :-) :-) -- I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!
Re: [gentoo-user] /dev/shm permissions drwxr-xr-x root:root ?
On 29/12/12 08:17, Walter Dnes wrote: On Fri, Dec 28, 2012 at 02:10:26PM +0800, William Kenworthy wrote On 28/12/12 11:25, Walter Dnes wrote: chmod 755 /dev/shm/hello /dev/shm/hello as a user (not root) wdk@moriah /home/vm/qemu/mail $ vi /dev/shm/hello wdk@moriah /home/vm/qemu/mail $ chmod 755 /dev/shm/hello wdk@moriah /home/vm/qemu/mail $ /dev/shm/hello Hello World wdk@moriah /home/vm/qemu/mail $ worked fine. and moriah ~ # mount|grep shm none on /dev/shm type tmpfs (rw,relatime) moriah ~ # Are you on regular udev? I thought that /dev/shm was supposed to be noexec as a security measure. * sys-fs/udev Latest version available: 196-r1 Latest version installed: 196-r1 Size of downloaded files: 1,922 kB Homepage:http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd Description: Linux dynamic and persistent device naming support (aka userspace devfs) License: LGPL-2.1 MIT GPL-2 * sys-fs/udev-init-scripts Latest version available: 18 Latest version installed: 18 Size of downloaded files: 4 kB Homepage:http://www.gentoo.org Description: udev startup scripts for openrc License: GPL-2 * virtual/udev Latest version available: 196 Latest version installed: 196 Size of downloaded files: 0 kB Homepage: Description: Virtual for udev implementation and number of its features License: I am waiting on eudev so I can dump it, but I also recently found udevil and am wondering if anyone can overview it and compare with eudev ... is it a similar project, or just for user mounting? BillK
Re: [gentoo-user] /dev/shm permissions drwxr-xr-x root:root ?
On Sat, Dec 29, 2012 at 09:35:03AM +0800, William Kenworthy wrote: * sys-fs/udev Latest version available: 196-r1 Latest version installed: 196-r1 Size of downloaded files: 1,922 kB Homepage:http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd Description: Linux dynamic and persistent device naming support (aka userspace devfs) License: LGPL-2.1 MIT GPL-2 * sys-fs/udev-init-scripts Latest version available: 18 Latest version installed: 18 Size of downloaded files: 4 kB Homepage:http://www.gentoo.org Description: udev startup scripts for openrc License: GPL-2 * virtual/udev Latest version available: 196 Latest version installed: 196 Size of downloaded files: 0 kB Homepage: Description: Virtual for udev implementation and number of its features License: I am waiting on eudev so I can dump it, but I also recently found udevil and am wondering if anyone can overview it and compare with eudev ... is it a similar project, or just for user mounting? BillK Go for it! mingdao@workstation ~/dwhelper $ eshowkw eudev Keywords for sys-fs/eudev: | | u | | a a p s | n | | l m h i m m p s p | u s | r | p d a p a 6 i p c 3 a x | s l | e | h 6 r p 6 8 p p 6 9 s r 8 | e o | p | a 4 m a 4 k s c 4 0 h c 6 | d t | o ---+---+-+--- 0| + + + + + + ~ + + + + + + | o 0 | gentoo 0-r1 | ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ | o | gentoo 1_beta1-r1 | ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ | o | gentoo | o o o o o o o o o o o o o | o | gentoo -- Happy Penguin Computers ') 126 Fenco Drive ( \ Tupelo, MS 38801 ^^ supp...@happypenguincomputers.com 662-269-2706 662-205-6424 http://happypenguincomputers.com/ Don't top-post: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_post#Top-posting
Re: [gentoo-user] /dev/shm permissions drwxr-xr-x root:root ?
On Fri, Dec 28, 2012 at 07:23:33PM -0600, Dale wrote Here is some info on mine, while you are waiting on William. root@fireball / # ls -al /dev/shm total 4 drwxrwxrwt 2 root root60 Dec 3 18:20 . drwxr-xr-x 17 root root 4360 Dec 28 15:30 .. -rwxr-xr-x 1 dale users 32 Dec 3 18:20 sem.lastpassffsemaphore root@fireball / # equery list udev * Searching for udev ... [IP-] [ ] sys-fs/udev-171-r9:0 root@fireball / # Does that help any? If I read that correctly, it is executable. At least it is for the one that is there. Can you create the sample script on /dev/shm, chmod it 755, and try to run it. The noexec mount option over-rides attributes that chmod sets. E.g. on my machine... [d531][waltdnes][~] chmod 744 /dev/shm/hw [d531][waltdnes][~] ll /dev/shm/hw -rwxr--r-- 1 waltdnes users 32 Dec 27 19:10 /dev/shm/hw [d531][waltdnes][~] /dev/shm/hw bash: /dev/shm/hw: Permission denied [d531][waltdnes][~] -- Walter Dnes waltd...@waltdnes.org I don't run desktop environments; I run useful applications
Re: [gentoo-user] IPTABLES syntax change?
On Fri, Dec 28, 2012 at 01:07:11AM -0500, Michael Orlitzky wrote On 12/27/2012 10:59 PM, Walter Dnes wrote: Here's my revised Paranoia Plus ruleset. Any comments? Because I'm behind a NAT-ing ADSL router/modem, many of my rules rarely see hits. However, I do have a backup dialup connection in case of problems, so most of my rules don't specify the network interface. A couple of notes... I did a bunch of inline comments below as I was trying to understand the rules. At the end I give the tl;dr, but maybe the inline comments are useful too. Thanks. My ruleset has accumulated years of cruft. I should really sit down and rewrite the thing from square 1. I have one comment. You show what appears to be a bash script for setting up the rules. I work with the contents of file /var/lib/iptables/rules-save instead. -- Walter Dnes waltd...@waltdnes.org I don't run desktop environments; I run useful applications
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Anyone switched to eudev yet? - what was wron with SysVInit?
On Sat, Dec 29, 2012 at 4:17 AM, Pandu Poluan pa...@poluan.info wrote: An example: A dev needs a newer version of a package. We upgrade it. It refuses to startup properly, but going back is out of the question because the dev *needs* the features only available in the new version. We check the (extremely) detailed logs. We find out what made the package balked. We do some changes, and all is well. Another example: After a security audit, we are required to upgrade a certain daemon to a new version, despite the current version running well. As we feared, the new version can't start. We use the detailed log to find out what happened. We made changes. It works again. In the two examples I give, having a C program doing all the starting will certainly mean that complex things have to be done, not to mention the headache of compiling them -- and possibly fail. You obviously haven't the slightest _clue_ what the hell you're talking about. 1) systemd does not prevent you from checking logs. If anything the systemd journal gives you more fine-grained tools for ensuring that some logs came from some daemon, not so easy to ensure when your log file is being peppered with auth attempts and whatnot. 2) the make some changes part you mentioned has little, if anything, to do with the init script that started it. Any Enterprise SysAdmin worth his salt, to use your term, knows it's 99% something he overlooked in the config settings that are independent of the startup system. 3) Having a C program doing all the starting doesn't imply complex things have to be done, because in most cases your startup script - whatever it's written in - simply calls the program with the right arguments. Ironically, shell scripts only appear simpler because _someone has already done the complex things for you_. -- This email is:[ ] actionable [ ] fyi[x] social Response needed: [ ] yes [x] up to you [ ] no Time-sensitive: [ ] immediate[ ] soon [x] none
Re: [gentoo-user] IPTABLES syntax change?
Walter Dnes wrote: On Fri, Dec 28, 2012 at 01:07:11AM -0500, Michael Orlitzky wrote On 12/27/2012 10:59 PM, Walter Dnes wrote: Here's my revised Paranoia Plus ruleset. Any comments? Because I'm behind a NAT-ing ADSL router/modem, many of my rules rarely see hits. However, I do have a backup dialup connection in case of problems, so most of my rules don't specify the network interface. A couple of notes... I did a bunch of inline comments below as I was trying to understand the rules. At the end I give the tl;dr, but maybe the inline comments are useful too. Thanks. My ruleset has accumulated years of cruft. I should really sit down and rewrite the thing from square 1. I have one comment. You show what appears to be a bash script for setting up the rules. I work with the contents of file /var/lib/iptables/rules-save instead. Calling iptables repeatedly from a shell script is not advisable. A better approach is described by Jan Engelhardt in his Towards the perfect ruleset document: http://inai.de/documents/Perfect_Ruleset.pdf The method of working with /var/lib/iptables/rules-save is very similar to that which he describes. Cheers, --Kerin
Re: Should /usr be merged with /? (Was: Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Anyone switched to eudev yet?)
On Sat, Dec 29, 2012 at 2:53 AM, Kevin Chadwick ma1l1i...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: On Sat, 29 Dec 2012 01:16:34 +0800 Mark David Dumlao madum...@gmail.com wrote: whatever filesystem type it is. Following this, for any distro to correctly FHS, there needs to be a package manager switch to copy arbitrary packages (and dependent libraries) from /usr to /. As of yet not implemented. Not at all, FUSE is a userspace flesystem meant to be used after single user. The spec says you have to be able to mount other filesystems not all other filesystems. I'd like to see you mount an OpenBSD ffs partition. If other filesystems is not qualified (and it is not), normal English rules would have it mean all other filesystems which I take to mean all other filesystems on the system. Can you justify a better interpretation? IF the system's /home directory is formatted as an OpenBSD partition, then yes, FHS demands that tools for mounting and recovering it be in /. -- This email is:[ ] actionable [ ] fyi[x] social Response needed: [ ] yes [x] up to you [ ] no Time-sensitive: [ ] immediate[ ] soon [x] none
[gentoo-user] Powering down the USB controller
I'm trying to get a USB sound card to behave in a certain way which requires it to think the computer has gone to sleep. I'm told the specific signal the sound card looks for is if the USB controller has been physically powered down. Should I unload a kernel module to accomplish this, or do I need to actually put the computer into sleep mode? - Grant
Re: [gentoo-user] /dev/shm permissions drwxr-xr-x root:root ?
Walter Dnes wrote: On Fri, Dec 28, 2012 at 07:23:33PM -0600, Dale wrote Here is some info on mine, while you are waiting on William. root@fireball / # ls -al /dev/shm total 4 drwxrwxrwt 2 root root60 Dec 3 18:20 . drwxr-xr-x 17 root root 4360 Dec 28 15:30 .. -rwxr-xr-x 1 dale users 32 Dec 3 18:20 sem.lastpassffsemaphore root@fireball / # equery list udev * Searching for udev ... [IP-] [ ] sys-fs/udev-171-r9:0 root@fireball / # Does that help any? If I read that correctly, it is executable. At least it is for the one that is there. Can you create the sample script on /dev/shm, chmod it 755, and try to run it. The noexec mount option over-rides attributes that chmod sets. E.g. on my machine... [d531][waltdnes][~] chmod 744 /dev/shm/hw [d531][waltdnes][~] ll /dev/shm/hw -rwxr--r-- 1 waltdnes users 32 Dec 27 19:10 /dev/shm/hw [d531][waltdnes][~] /dev/shm/hw bash: /dev/shm/hw: Permission denied [d531][waltdnes][~] Mine does this: root@fireball / # chmod 755 /dev/shm/hello root@fireball / # /dev/shm/hello -su: /dev/shm/hello: Permission denied root@fireball / # ls -al /dev/shm/hello -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 31 Dec 28 23:08 /dev/shm/hello root@fireball / # cat /etc/fstab | grep shm # glibc 2.2 and above expects tmpfs to be mounted at /dev/shm for # POSIX shared memory (shm_open, shm_unlink). shm /dev/shmtmpfs nodev,nosuid,noexec 0 0 root@fireball / # So I get permission denied too. I did that as root to I might add in case you don't notice. That help? Dale :-) :-) -- I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!
Re: Should /usr be merged with /? (Was: Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Anyone switched to eudev yet?)
On Sat, 29 Dec 2012 12:27:03 Mark David Dumlao wrote: On Sat, Dec 29, 2012 at 2:53 AM, Kevin Chadwick ma1l1i...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: On Sat, 29 Dec 2012 01:16:34 +0800 Mark David Dumlao madum...@gmail.com wrote: whatever filesystem type it is. Following this, for any distro to correctly FHS, there needs to be a package manager switch to copy arbitrary packages (and dependent libraries) from /usr to /. As of yet not implemented. Not at all, FUSE is a userspace flesystem meant to be used after single user. The spec says you have to be able to mount other filesystems not all other filesystems. I'd like to see you mount an OpenBSD ffs partition. If other filesystems is not qualified (and it is not), normal English rules would have it mean all other filesystems which I take to mean all other filesystems on the system. Can you justify a better interpretation? The latest FHS dates from 2004, the same year as the *earliest* FUSE release I can see on the FUSE web site. I'd say a good working hypothesis is that FHS was simply written *before* any user-space file systems were more than an experimental oddity. IF the system's /home directory is formatted as an OpenBSD partition, then yes, FHS demands that tools for mounting and recovering it be in /. I'd certainly be happy fixing FHS to say that tools for mounting and recovering essential system partitions be located in /, and that these essential system partitions contain the tools for mounting and recovering non-essential partitions. If you are wondering where I stand, I currently boot with an initramfs, since I have everything except /boot located on LVM devices. This includes / and a seperate /usr, done mostly from habit after 15 years of habit, and working where that was the corporate standard production practice. As to system recovery, nowdays I ususlly do that by booting from a live CD/DVD so I have access to all the tools when I need them. Which reminds me that I need to update my rescue DVD to the latest version... -- Reverend Paul Colquhoun, ULC.http://andor.dropbear.id.au/~paulcol Asking for technical help in newsgroups? Read this first: http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#intro
Re: [gentoo-user] Booting the Kernel as UEFI App
On Dec 29, 2012 5:26 AM, Randolph Maaßen r.maasse...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Guys, I just got my laptop back from repair, the main board and harddrive are changed, so bye bye data. I haven't created any data on gentoo, i couldn't even set up the system before it crashed. So I'm going to setup a new install, and I have heard that you can set up the kernel as UEFI application[1]. I have booted the system from UEFI grub2 before, so UEFI works and I know that the BIOS/UEFI has a boot manager. Has anyone here did this before or is this a bad idea ? [1]: http://en.gentoo-wiki.com/wiki/UEFI I haven't used UEFI before, but won't making a Gentoo kernel means more trouble when you need to update? I think letting grub2 be the UEFI app, then from there make grub2 boot Gentoo, would be preferable. You can then prepare 3 images for booting: Known Good, Previous Known Good, and Newest Testing. Once Newest Testing is confirmed to run well, Previous Known Good can be retired, Known Good demoted to Previous Known Good, and Newest Testing graduated to Known Good. Again, I have no experience with UEFI, so I am also interested if anyone can shed more light on this. Rgds, --
