Re: [gentoo-user] systemd and initramfs
Am 23.08.2013 00:44, schrieb Neil Bothwick: /etc/grub.d/40_custom Add you entries there, and change the number in the filename to have them appear before the autogenerated entries. Thanks for the pointer. Gotta play with that.
Re: [gentoo-user] Jitsi or Other Skype Alternative
On 22 August 2013, at 17:08, hasufell wrote: … I was arguing from both sides. It is buggy, crashes a lot, consumes a lot of ressources and is able to slow down your whole desktop, mess with audio settings and whatnot. My granny never had these problems, using Skype on her PC. She uses it to chat to her cousin in Australia. Whatever your complaints about a messaging application, you offer no solution if you don't offer a way to communicate with users who are only capable of running a setup.exe, who have this tremendously popular and well-known application already installed. This network effect is not a new phenomenon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_effect Stroller.
[DONE] Re: [gentoo-user] OT: installing Gentoo on a 2007 Macbook
Well, I returned the laptop to the university. It turns out the person who had it before me had the same problem of OS X not booting sometimes (with the original disk, not the new SSD we installed when I got it). When I got the laptop, I was in fact told that it wouldn't start, but we understood that to mean wouldn't turn on. So when it *did* boot from the OS X live system we supposed that it wasn't in fact completely broken. Judging from the nature of the problems I would guess the firmware (EFI) is broken. Perhaps reflashing it would solve the problems, but the laptop is old enough that the university will probably just buy a new one instead, what with the battery being broken and all. So thanks for the help, but the laptop in question is pretty much officially finished. Greetings -- Marc Joliet -- People who think they know everything really annoy those of us who know we don't - Bjarne Stroustrup signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Jitsi or Other Skype Alternative
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 08/23/13 13:21, Stroller wrote: On 22 August 2013, at 17:08, hasufell wrote: … I was arguing from both sides. It is buggy, crashes a lot, consumes a lot of ressources and is able to slow down your whole desktop, mess with audio settings and whatnot. My granny never had these problems, using Skype on her PC. I can assure you that skype consumes tremendous amount of ram. - -- Stop talking and start compiling. Linux user #557897 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.20 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJSFy6dAAoJEK64IL1uI2hamMMH/36NLPW/NkoV69FX4f9udANS RsvGik6p1VJ4Cjbj/SGPn3ZkKYEeFQBTpUEiRgArg/TR1kNPldPfVHToXFATkCXq CjWKV5QgtOISJ91j0O4eOls1k2kgJBL66b1m+fV0ZIACGmpgaZCUfQh7n/CTYaKb fN7viGmnmMIh8pzM1bCH2UFX/+G/FFiaIZsaLYHmEoFkboRAy4VXpLMpmqzPOHX9 oYytSlq/WYoHhkzo0KBkZ54vUAdktitECXZnHqvBkWkEawoCXq9bV0Hpl0AEwQMN eYN5DcBauNfONO6fHqWTbzmDkfOM62BWWFLZ4nLvjvTGVbYJAM40u2VXJf2hrNE= =drLx -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [gentoo-user] Jitsi or Other Skype Alternative
Well... Nowadays RAM is so cheap that this is really no issue. Most recent Computers ship at last with 4 GB so what the Heck. That aside, jitsi runs on Java and the Java vm is not really leightweight either. the the.gu...@mail.ru schrieb: My granny never had these problems, using Skype on her PC. I can assure you that skype consumes tremendous amount of ram.
Re: [gentoo-user] Jitsi or Other Skype Alternative
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 08/23/13 14:39, Marc Stürmer wrote: Well... Nowadays RAM is so cheap that this is really no issue. Most recent Computers ship at last with 4 GB so what the Heck. Does that mean that I should buy hardware to match software requirements? - -- Stop talking and start compiling. Linux user #557897 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.20 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJSFz5xAAoJEK64IL1uI2hamssH/23LTCtcDoTc/OXYp/ghSFcg uw1CXuSt8Zx94D1Hda+cDbRCn12FR93QHjHKN0AgvfH+0lItC071WUVk+bJWuq/2 jDn17H8biCnU6y+J+AtJXzdrMPJa9CzdfdHAAgZgAucNKf94T1Urai+w+rvc1f7O PAuoQ/6K8F68ND65nexWItKnoi/r3em+5TljWqU3Z6fLMRUBtZoF9nrX9QPk+CqC EJJBMpR/q3k18YQIwC7ZQDSwkTbxUAXVGrgneCIO3AX4JJ2EtfyvIDXo36pj2nxV x1lOcWk+19wN1e3pX9aEfWBixZPU3VNMCvWuhXogJUpnaOcxenyFLD6zoalRZkk= =tB4t -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [gentoo-user] Jitsi or Other Skype Alternative
On 23.08.2013 14:50, the wrote: On 08/23/13 14:39, Marc Stürmer wrote: Well... Nowadays RAM is so cheap that this is really no issue. Most recent Computers ship at last with 4 GB so what the Heck. Does that mean that I should buy hardware to match software requirements? Has it ever been different? Do people buy servers just because those are millions $ worth? Do people buy top 3D adapters for the same reason? That doesn't imply whether this fact is good or bad. That is just the fact, and it's always been. -- Best wishes, Yuri K. Shatroff
Re: [gentoo-user] Jitsi or Other Skype Alternative
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Fri, 23 Aug 2013 14:50:27 +0400, the wrote: Does that mean that I should buy hardware to match software requirements? Hasn't that always been the case? What other reason would you have for buying hardware? The point is, Skype is there. no one is disputing that it is as buggy as hell, no one is claiming that it does not and will never have backdoors, but it works for a lot of people. If you want to talk to those people, you have no choice but to use Skype. - -- Neil Bothwick Please rotate your phone 90 degrees and try again. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.21 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlIXQ64ACgkQum4al0N1GQP+cACgvWgcLiS/fjEYToJHJh7RmlYs +7UAnRx2SzJ3VCHHXhl9eAYXGE08YYp7 =km/x -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [gentoo-user] Jitsi or Other Skype Alternative
On 23.08.2013 13:42, the wrote:
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
On 08/23/13 13:21, Stroller wrote:
On 22 August 2013, at 17:08, hasufell wrote:
… I was arguing from both sides. It is buggy, crashes a lot,
consumes a lot of ressources and is able to slow down your whole
desktop, mess with audio settings and whatnot.
My granny never had these problems, using Skype on her PC.
I can assure you that skype consumes tremendous amount of ram.
Not defending Skype in any way, but tremendous is not calculable.
In these words, e.g. KDE consumes even more tremendous amounts. So what,
stop using KDE now?
As to bugs, don't think Skype has more bugs than KDE. Crashes, slowdowns
and UI troubles - KDE is plentiful with them. Stop using KDE now?
And it would be interesting to see a program (somewhat more complex than
printf('%s', 'Hello world'); ) which does not suffer from all these issues.
The main criterion of quality of software is whether it suits users'
needs. All that technical stuff is about talking. The user never sees
the code, rarely sees the resource utilization, and what he observes
most of the time is the result of using the software. If the user
manages to achieve his goal, the software is successful. If not, the
quality of code and UI and resource consumption matter nothing.
The advanced user will probably aim at minimizing RAM usage, improving
UI, opening the source code etc. but after all software quality is only
the users' perceived matching of expectations with results.
--
Best wishes,
Yuri K. Shatroff
Re: [gentoo-user] Jitsi or Other Skype Alternative
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 08/23/13 15:10, Yuri K. Shatroff wrote: On 23.08.2013 14:50, the wrote: On 08/23/13 14:39, Marc Stürmer wrote: Well... Nowadays RAM is so cheap that this is really no issue. Most recent Computers ship at last with 4 GB so what the Heck. Does that mean that I should buy hardware to match software requirements? Has it ever been different? Do people buy servers just because those are millions $ worth? Do people buy top 3D adapters for the same reason? Well perhaps I'm not in a subset of people. Do you have a lot of friends who bought a personal server millions $ worth ? - -- Stop talking and start compiling. Linux user #557897 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.20 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJSF0xDAAoJEK64IL1uI2haVaUH/304iRM4jHl17mIoXE/3JHuW pK+j4syR+2jrF8diVLZ2mSUxwDvAkzYfjRar1BIyt6OxZdU2XRSXS9ehb7gdTVHe Z3DbNPfjM2J5yZiK8SRFPslYIVrIR9V85+ZO0Razlri7yatDYNitYj3jRxPegH29 q2YXHR+9eB1hdCbKmooxyLthbTuFtghVaiTWX8Le3auIaQoSjpDdB3VD5hpg5/DC 0PTqkDtcB9xVxC/emu3EUK8oFBXOL38kzG2C00lRHV3tuDFir6F4t7T47zymnFSU c4uxBm+FHB16Zi9jwiNADvEO80OmvWjn9NmURAtOvLSohnUEtsktrYKs19skFks= =eVdv -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [gentoo-user] Jitsi or Other Skype Alternative
No IT simply means that you are overwxaggerating the RAM usage and its importance a Lot. Most gentoo Users are Used to Compile their own Binaries. A Task which Uses quite some time, horse Power and RAM. Which means that the average computer running gentoo also should have enough Power to Run Skype. So once more again: RAM usage is no issue, Because most Computers Nowadays have Got much more than needed anyway. And on running instance of firefox probably Uses much more RAM After running some time than Skype does anyway. There are issues, in you are being concerned e.g. About your privacy. But that is a Very Different kind of issue Indeed. Am 23.08.2013 12:50 schrieb the the.gu...@mail.ru: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 08/23/13 14:39, Marc Stürmer wrote: Well... Nowadays RAM is so cheap that this is really no issue. Most recent Computers ship at last with 4 GB so what the Heck. Does that mean that I should buy hardware to match software requirements? - -- Stop talking and start compiling. Linux user #557897 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.20 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJSFz5xAAoJEK64IL1uI2hamssH/23LTCtcDoTc/OXYp/ghSFcg uw1CXuSt8Zx94D1Hda+cDbRCn12FR93QHjHKN0AgvfH+0lItC071WUVk+bJWuq/2 jDn17H8biCnU6y+J+AtJXzdrMPJa9CzdfdHAAgZgAucNKf94T1Urai+w+rvc1f7O PAuoQ/6K8F68ND65nexWItKnoi/r3em+5TljWqU3Z6fLMRUBtZoF9nrX9QPk+CqC EJJBMpR/q3k18YQIwC7ZQDSwkTbxUAXVGrgneCIO3AX4JJ2EtfyvIDXo36pj2nxV x1lOcWk+19wN1e3pX9aEfWBixZPU3VNMCvWuhXogJUpnaOcxenyFLD6zoalRZkk= =tB4t -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [gentoo-user] Jitsi or Other Skype Alternative
On 23/08/2013 15:18, Marc Stürmer wrote: No IT simply means that you are overwxaggerating the RAM usage and its importance a Lot. Most gentoo Users are Used to Compile their own Binaries. A Task which Uses quite some time, horse Power and RAM. Which means that the average computer running gentoo also should have enough Power to Run Skype. So once more again: RAM usage is no issue, Because most Computers Nowadays have Got much more than needed anyway. And on running instance of firefox probably Uses much more RAM After running some time than Skype does anyway. There are issues, in you are being concerned e.g. About your privacy. But that is a Very Different kind of issue Indeed. tr 'A-Z' 'a-z' I think your keyboard is broken. Your Shift key is doing odd things and typing CAPS when you obviously didn't intend it to Am 23.08.2013 12:50 schrieb the the.gu...@mail.ru mailto:the.gu...@mail.ru: On 08/23/13 14:39, Marc Stürmer wrote: Well... Nowadays RAM is so cheap that this is really no issue. Most recent Computers ship at last with 4 GB so what the Heck. Does that mean that I should buy hardware to match software requirements? -- Alan McKinnon Systems Engineer^W Technician Infrastructure Services Internet Solutions +27 11 575 7585 -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] Jitsi or Other Skype Alternative
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
On 08/23/13 15:25, Yuri K. Shatroff wrote:
On 23.08.2013 13:42, the wrote:
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1
On 08/23/13 13:21, Stroller wrote:
On 22 August 2013, at 17:08, hasufell wrote:
… I was arguing from both sides. It is buggy, crashes a lot,
consumes a lot of ressources and is able to slow down your
whole desktop, mess with audio settings and whatnot.
My granny never had these problems, using Skype on her PC.
I can assure you that skype consumes tremendous amount of ram.
Not defending Skype in any way, but tremendous is not calculable.
In these words, e.g. KDE consumes even more tremendous amounts. So
what, stop using KDE now?
That's what I did.
As to bugs, don't think Skype has more bugs than KDE. Crashes,
slowdowns and UI troubles - KDE is plentiful with them. Stop using
KDE now? And it would be interesting to see a program (somewhat
more complex than printf('%s', 'Hello world'); ) which does not
suffer from all these issues. The main criterion of quality of
software is whether it suits users' needs. All that technical
stuff is about talking. The user never sees the code, rarely sees
the resource utilization, and what he observes most of the time is
the result of using the software. If the user manages to achieve
his goal, the software is successful. If not, the quality of code
and UI and resource consumption matter nothing. The advanced user
will probably aim at minimizing RAM usage, improving UI, opening
the source code etc. but after all software quality is only the
users' perceived matching of expectations with results.
- --
Stop talking and start compiling.
Linux user #557897
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Version: GnuPG v2.0.20 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/
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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Advice needed regarding udisks
On 20/08/13 09:21, Grant wrote: This is actually a portage question. How can I install udisks-2 in a way that will fix this problem? I'm confused by how to handle the slotting behavior. I think the issue here is that we are not understanding what the problem is. It happens with an application in particular, or with a desktop environment? It happens when you try to umount the device, or when you disconnect it from the computer? Do you loose data in the camera, or when transferring photos to your computer? Or is only that you don't like the error reported? When trying to eject a USB camera in thunar in xfce4, the error appears and the device does not umount. Here is a command that also produces the error: [ ... ] Just saying you should be using `udisksctl` command instead of the now obsolete `udisks` command udisksctl command = new udisks 2 udisks command = old udisks 1 OK, but first I need to figure out how to get gvfs to use udisks instead of gdu. - Grant by emerging gnome-base/gvfs from ~arch with USE=udev udisks the stable gnome-base/gvfs is not compatible with UDisks 2.1 but by upgrading gnome-base/gvfs on stable to ~arch version with USE=udev udisks is then again not compatible all the way with GNOME 2.x, so that's why it's still in ~arch
Re: [gentoo-user] Jitsi or Other Skype Alternative
Am 23.08.2013 15:21, schrieb Alan McKinnon: tr 'A-Z' 'a-z' I think your keyboard is broken. Your Shift key is doing odd things and typing CAPS when you obviously didn't intend More like of my virtual keyboard on my smartphone, anyways... nice to be back on my real keyboard once more again. Yeah.
Re: [gentoo-user] Jitsi or Other Skype Alternative
Am 23.08.2013 12:50, schrieb the: Does that mean that I should buy hardware to match software requirements? Do you really want to tell me that you are still working on a Pentium 133 with maybe 64 MB of RAM? I mean it has always been like that: people buy indeed hardware to match software requirements, e.g. to play better games or to watch Youtube videos in High Definition. Of course no one is going to force you to do so, so if you are happy with less power you need less, of course. The point for Skype, last time I am going to repeat that, is that it works out of the box for the normal user and the large user base. You need no bachelor in computer sciences to set it up and get it running, even your proverbial grandma in mind is able to do that. And that's what 99% of Skype frankly care about at all: that it works that way. They don't really care about nerdy themes like bugs, privacy concerns, backdoors, whatever - it works for them good enough, cheap and reliable and that's what's counts at all. So if you really want a piece of software to replace Skype, it depends on your goals: just for talking over the internet you can take a VoIP-program like Ekiga and so on. But if you want to replace Skype with something better, you first need to recognize why it got so popular in first place and make something even better for its user base. Or - another way - just buy the company behind it. And in modern times like ours I personally and frankly think that telling OMFG Skype uses so much RAM is not really something most people care about anymore at all. I mean, even really cheap computers you can buy today, have at last around 4 GB of RAM, being a multitude of RAM being necessary to run Skype smoothly. And because most Gentoo users are being used to compile their own stuff (until they use Sabayon), their computers are normally being far from underpowered. Of course, if you do care about it - don't use it, it is that simple. But don't expect the rest of it to share your point of view and do it likewise. For normal users it is like: all software sucks and they tend to use that piece of software which sucks less for them. If their favorite piece of software starts to suck more, then they are going to another piece of software, but not before.
[gentoo-user] ntpd crashes, system set to UTC
Hey guys, I'm having some trouble with ntpd and my system clock. Every once and a while, my system time is wrong. In the past (not having time to look into it), I've just run ntp-client to correct it. Turns out that ntpd is crashing and `date` reports the UTC time, but thinks it's Eastern. This time I didn't correct the time and tried rebooting a few times. ntpd crashes within 5 minutes of boot, leading me to suspect the the time being off is what's causing ntpd to crash. Info about my system: I dual boot with windows, so my /etc/conf.d/hwclock looks like this: clock=local clock_systohc=YES clock_hctosys=YES clock_args= I also have CONFIG_RTC_HCTOSYS and CONFIG_RTC_SYSTORC set in my kernel. ntpd is in my default runlevel, ntp-client is not. My /etc/ntp.conf looks like this: server 0.gentoo.pool.ntp.org server 1.gentoo.pool.ntp.org server 2.gentoo.pool.ntp.org server 3.gentoo.pool.ntp.org driftfile /var/lib/ntp/ntp.drift restrict default nomodify nopeer noquery restrict 127.0.0.1 What am I doing wrong? Where should I look for more information on the problem? Randy
Re: [gentoo-user] Jitsi or Other Skype Alternative
On 08/23/2013 05:48 PM, Marc Stürmer wrote: Am 23.08.2013 12:50, schrieb the: Does that mean that I should buy hardware to match software requirements? Do you really want to tell me that you are still working on a Pentium 133 with maybe 64 MB of RAM? I mean it has always been like that: people buy indeed hardware to match software requirements, e.g. to play better games or to watch Youtube videos in High Definition. Of course no one is going to force you to do so, so if you are happy with less power you need less, of course. The point for Skype, last time I am going to repeat that, is that it works out of the box for the normal user and the large user base. And that is still wrong. If it works for you, fine. There are enough users who have a LOT of trouble with it. Again: read the bugtrackers, I do. And even better: you cannot file bug reports properly (at least from what I see the skype jira is gone) and cannot read/fix code. You are lured into believing it's a good piece of software that works out of the box, because all they do is good advertisement and increasing their userbase with some shiny features. Even worse: distro maintainers have trouble with it, need to apply hacks or don't even include it at all because of the nasty license. How does that improve out-of-the-box experience? Next you will tell us windows works out of the box. I mean, wtf are you talking about? It doesn't make any sense. And doesn't even add anything to this topic.
Re: [gentoo-user] Jitsi or Other Skype Alternative
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 08/23/13 19:48, Marc Stürmer wrote: Am 23.08.2013 12:50, schrieb the: Does that mean that I should buy hardware to match software requirements? Do you really want to tell me that you are still working on a Pentium 133 with maybe 64 MB of RAM? left my celeron 566 MHz 256 ram 2 years ago (couldn't run gnome, emacs and firefox at the same time). currently using 1.2 GHz x2 p3, 1,5 Gb ram w/ gentoo. I work, play games (it's sometimes sad that I can't enjoy videos marked for mobile devices though). I think that skypes takes too much ram _to accomplish its task_. - -- Stop talking and start compiling. Linux user #557897 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.20 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJSF5FqAAoJEK64IL1uI2haIg0H/jHcrKBg51yUixwNaQpIzimj 7S/yH//d4ddMKQTHpflyCxNhXnoC9EzqjyYTloffQUDk2nNkqmH3O6M5vPDRIZBu kPEQSYVL1cHZqz+xA7qcLyQw6W9MgRvJ7SAmTKnzgBPaA2ZNMuNeLPn1wrpviXW3 WXpYmT5ZfTFBO1GWc3hKnHjztvhNiS2fVm+uPCHf24jmOnzwUIG6ei2sYEWBLYc2 R57JPjW+5DZVSRG3zPtQ8+SJ0QlKJ3AnnZouvdkSOtbnlgzja3802G4TUNGROmNv yJB8zUZH3d7I70v39wMsWngfIvP2Io4H6fGthaFT+hAiW1nIlg+p+/KO0nL/fyA= =sP3I -END PGP SIGNATURE-
[gentoo-user] Blue Fn Key Combinations not Sending Scancodes
Hey guys, I'm trying to make my blue Fn key combinations control by MPD server on the Raspberry Pi sitting on my speakers. This should be really easy with xbindkeys. I'm following this document: http://www.gentoo-wiki.info/HOWTO_Use_Multimedia_Keys The problem I have is that the Fn key combinations on my laptop aren't all sending scancodes. I understand that the Fn key itself doesn't send a scancode. I'm using Fn + Down Arrow (a blue play/pause symbol), but xev doesn't register it. Even when running showkey -s, I can't get a scancode. When I do Fn + F8 (a blue monitor symbol) I get the scancode 0xe0 0x56 0xe0 0xd6 so the key itself is working. And I can use Fn + F1 (Zz) to hibernate. So I'm thinking the kernel isn't recognizing the scancode that the keyboard is sending? Does that sound right? Is there something in the kernel that I should change? I didn't see anything that looked relevant under keyboard drivers. Randy
[gentoo-user] startx with multiple window managers
I'm looking for a better way to manage multiple WMs. I launch X with startx. I also use multiple window managers. I'm primarily on xmonad because I love tiling WMs, but I also keep xfce around for whever I developing a GUI or letting my fiancee use my machine. My procedure for starting multiple managers is this: - log in - startx - login on tty2 - edit .xinitrc (shown below) - startx -- :1 .xinitrc goes from: exec xmonad #exec startxfce4 to: #exec xmonad exec startxfce4 Then I can switch between tty7 and tty8 at will. Usually I don't start xfce at all, but for the times when I do, I'd be nice to do this without editing a file. Can I simplify this process? Is there anyone else who uses multiple WMs? How do you manage them? Randy
[gentoo-user] The NVIDIA/Kernel fiasco -- is it safe to sync yet?
https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=447566 This bug describes a problem people are having with nvidia/kernel. My question: Are regular nvidia users who run a completely stable system (with only stable nvidia-drivers and stable gentoo-sources) affected by any of this? I run a stable system but I've been afraid to sync for fear I'll get sucked into having to mask/unmask packages and keep up with the unfolding drama. Thank you, Chris
Re: [gentoo-user] Jitsi or Other Skype Alternative
On 23.08.2013 19:58, hasufell wrote: On 08/23/2013 05:48 PM, Marc Stürmer wrote: Am 23.08.2013 12:50, schrieb the: [ ... ] The point for Skype, last time I am going to repeat that, is that it works out of the box for the normal user and the large user base. And that is still wrong. If it works for you, fine. There are enough users who have a LOT of trouble with it. Again: read the bugtrackers, I do. (Again, I'm not a skypodefender in any way) Please recommend us a bugtracker for an actively developing software which has, well, considerably fewer bugs. (Add to this: multiplatform, multiuser, network-based etc) And even better: you cannot file bug reports properly (at least from what I see the skype jira is gone) and cannot read/fix code. You are lured into believing it's a good piece of software that works out of the box, because all they do is good advertisement and increasing their userbase with some shiny features. Even worse: distro maintainers have trouble with it, need to apply hacks or don't even include it at all because of the nasty license. How does that improve out-of-the-box experience? Your view is simply different from the view of most software users. A good piece of software for them is not what is well-coded or well-maintained or well-licensed or well-whatever. All they need is matching their expectations. You may be 146% correct about troubles and hacks but this doesn't change the average joe's expectations. And yes, in most situations skype does work out-of-the-box. Sad, but true. Next you will tell us windows works out of the box. It does, in most situations. Sad, but true. I mean, wtf are you talking about? It doesn't make any sense. And doesn't even add anything to this topic. That's all about off-topic. But not acknowledging the truth doesn't add anything either. Do people hate Windows or other proprietary stuff because of its bugs? Or because of its not working OOTB? In my experience, I'd probably number a thousand more times of open-source software not working OOTB and being buggy than Windows/etc. But I still adhere to OSS. I don't think that having an 'ideal' piece of proprietary software would change an open-source adept's mind towards PS. But neither I think that emphasizing PS' problems which are common to all software will help people turn to the open-source side. -- Best wishes, Yuri K. Shatroff
Re: [gentoo-user] The NVIDIA/Kernel fiasco -- is it safe to sync yet?
On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 10:45:46AM -0700, Chris Stankevitz wrote: Are regular nvidia users who run a completely stable system (with only stable nvidia-drivers and stable gentoo-sources) affected by any of this? I believe so. I run testing, but this just cleared up for me a few days ago when I went to kernel 3.10.7 (stable). I'm currently running kernel 3.10.9 and nvidia-drivers 325.15 (both testing), which works just fine. Try it and see what happens. Randy
Re: [gentoo-user] startx with multiple window managers
I just started another Xfce session by typing startx -- :1. I am pretty sure you can also use startxfce4 without editing the file that you are editing. On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 10:39 AM, Randy Westlund rwest...@gmail.com wrote: I'm looking for a better way to manage multiple WMs. I launch X with startx. I also use multiple window managers. I'm primarily on xmonad because I love tiling WMs, but I also keep xfce around for whever I developing a GUI or letting my fiancee use my machine. My procedure for starting multiple managers is this: - log in - startx - login on tty2 - edit .xinitrc (shown below) - startx -- :1 .xinitrc goes from: exec xmonad #exec startxfce4 to: #exec xmonad exec startxfce4 Then I can switch between tty7 and tty8 at will. Usually I don't start xfce at all, but for the times when I do, I'd be nice to do this without editing a file. Can I simplify this process? Is there anyone else who uses multiple WMs? How do you manage them? Randy -- Willie Matthews matthews.wil...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] Jitsi or Other Skype Alternative
On 08/23/2013 08:09 PM, Yuri K. Shatroff wrote: On 23.08.2013 19:58, hasufell wrote: On 08/23/2013 05:48 PM, Marc Stürmer wrote: Am 23.08.2013 12:50, schrieb the: [ ... ] The point for Skype, last time I am going to repeat that, is that it works out of the box for the normal user and the large user base. And that is still wrong. If it works for you, fine. There are enough users who have a LOT of trouble with it. Again: read the bugtrackers, I do. (Again, I'm not a skypodefender in any way) Please recommend us a bugtracker for an actively developing software which has, well, considerably fewer bugs. (Add to this: multiplatform, multiuser, network-based etc) I was talking about crash and segfault bugs in specific. Check the xfce bug tracker if you need an example for a rather well maintained piece of software compared to skype. And even better: you cannot file bug reports properly (at least from what I see the skype jira is gone) and cannot read/fix code. You are lured into believing it's a good piece of software that works out of the box, because all they do is good advertisement and increasing their userbase with some shiny features. Even worse: distro maintainers have trouble with it, need to apply hacks or don't even include it at all because of the nasty license. How does that improve out-of-the-box experience? Your view is simply different from the view of most software users. A good piece of software for them is not what is well-coded or well-maintained or well-licensed or well-whatever. All they need is matching their expectations. You may be 146% correct about troubles and hacks but this doesn't change the average joe's expectations. And yes, in most situations skype does work out-of-the-box. Sad, but true. Repeating it and ignoring the troubles people have throughout distro forums and bug trackers will not help you prove your point. Next you will tell us windows works out of the box. It does, in most situations. Sad, but true. That is simply not true. It doesn't even come with most of the needed hardware drivers. There is almost nothing pre-installed. Getting programs is complicated. It seems to me you don't really understand what out of the box means. I mean, wtf are you talking about? It doesn't make any sense. And doesn't even add anything to this topic. That's all about off-topic. But not acknowledging the truth doesn't add anything either. Do people hate Windows or other proprietary stuff because of its bugs? Or because of its not working OOTB? In my experience, I'd probably number a thousand more times of open-source software not working OOTB and being buggy than Windows/etc. But I still adhere to OSS. I don't think that having an 'ideal' piece of proprietary software would change an open-source adept's mind towards PS. But neither I think that emphasizing PS' problems which are common to all software will help people turn to the open-source side. opensource often sucks if there is no one professionally working on it, as in: get's money
[gentoo-user] evince / firefox will not print to a specific directory
When I try to print to PDF with evince or firefox it will not print pdf file to a directory I specify only to my home directory. Does anybody know what to look for? It just happen after recent upgrade. -- Joseph
Re: [gentoo-user] startx with multiple window managers
130823 Randy Westlund wrote: I launch X with startx. I also use multiple window managers. My procedure for starting multiple managers is this: - log in - startx - login on tty2 - edit .xinitrc - startx -- :1 .xinitrc goes from: exec xmonad #exec startxfce4 to: #exec xmonad exec startxfce4 Then I can switch between tty7 and tty8 at will. Can I simplify this process? When I used 2 WMs, I had 2 versions of .xinitrc , which I called eg '.xinitrc-a' '.xinitrc-b'. All I had to do was enter 'cp .xinitrc-a .xinitrc' then 'startx'. That's slightly simpler than what you've been doing. However, 'startx' is a shell script, so you sb able to edit it to contain a query as to which WM to use ; you could alias the choices to single letters, then enter what you need. Let us all know if that works (smile). -- ,, SUPPORT ___//___, Philip Webb ELECTRIC /] [] [] [] [] []| Cities Centre, University of Toronto TRANSIT`-O--O---' purslowatchassdotutorontodotca
Re: [gentoo-user] startx with multiple window managers
You could actually pass an argument to startx. My .xinitrc looks like this: if [[ $2 == kde ]]; then exec startkde elif [[ $2 == awesome ]]; then setxkbmap de exec ck-launch-session dbus-launch --sh-syntax --exit-with-session awesome else exec startkde fi I've also created aliase for kde awesome (.bashrc): alias kde=startx kde alias awesome=startx awesome Means whenever i want to start kde or awesome i only have to execute kde or awesome. By default (startx) it would start kde. LG On Friday 23 August 2013 13:39:45 Randy Westlund wrote: I'm looking for a better way to manage multiple WMs. I launch X with startx. I also use multiple window managers. I'm primarily on xmonad because I love tiling WMs, but I also keep xfce around for whever I developing a GUI or letting my fiancee use my machine. My procedure for starting multiple managers is this: - log in - startx - login on tty2 - edit .xinitrc (shown below) - startx -- :1 .xinitrc goes from: exec xmonad #exec startxfce4 to: #exec xmonad exec startxfce4 Then I can switch between tty7 and tty8 at will. Usually I don't start xfce at all, but for the times when I do, I'd be nice to do this without editing a file. Can I simplify this process? Is there anyone else who uses multiple WMs? How do you manage them? Randy
Re: [gentoo-user] The NVIDIA/Kernel fiasco -- is it safe to sync yet?
Op vrijdag 23 augustus 2013 14:09:59 schreef Randy Westlund: On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 10:45:46AM -0700, Chris Stankevitz wrote: Are regular nvidia users who run a completely stable system (with only stable nvidia-drivers and stable gentoo-sources) affected by any of this? I believe so. I run testing, but this just cleared up for me a few days ago when I went to kernel 3.10.7 (stable). I'm currently running kernel 3.10.9 and nvidia-drivers 325.15 (both testing), which works just fine. Try it and see what happens. Randy Updated to gentoo-sources 3.10.7 (stable) today. I had (stable) x11-drivers/nvidia-drivers-319.32 which failed rebuilding. After keywording x11-drivers/nvidia-drivers I'm on 325.15 as well. Seems to be fine so far. Paul
Re: [gentoo-user] ntpd crashes, system set to UTC
On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 2:53 PM, Randy Westlund rwest...@gmail.com wrote: Hey guys, I'm having some trouble with ntpd and my system clock. Every once and a while, my system time is wrong. In the past (not having time to look into it), I've just run ntp-client to correct it. Turns out that ntpd is crashing and `date` reports the UTC time, but thinks it's Eastern. This time I didn't correct the time and tried rebooting a few times. ntpd crashes within 5 minutes of boot, leading me to suspect the the time being off is what's causing ntpd to crash. Info about my system: I dual boot with windows, so my /etc/conf.d/hwclock looks like this: clock=local clock_systohc=YES clock_hctosys=YES clock_args= I also have CONFIG_RTC_HCTOSYS and CONFIG_RTC_SYSTORC set in my kernel. ntpd is in my default runlevel, ntp-client is not. My /etc/ntp.conf looks like this: server 0.gentoo.pool.ntp.org server 1.gentoo.pool.ntp.org server 2.gentoo.pool.ntp.org server 3.gentoo.pool.ntp.org driftfile /var/lib/ntp/ntp.drift restrict default nomodify nopeer noquery restrict 127.0.0.1 What am I doing wrong? Where should I look for more information on the problem? ntpd should not crash no matter what, but what is /etc/localtime? Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] evince / firefox will not print to a specific directory
That is interesting. I have the exact same problem. Tried to save it to the desktop and it saved to my home directory.On the second try I typed in the directory that I wanted to save the file. Instead of output.pdf, I put /home/ill/Desktop/output.pdf. It's not a fix but it works. On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 1:43 PM, Joseph syscon...@gmail.com wrote: When I try to print to PDF with evince or firefox it will not print pdf file to a directory I specify only to my home directory. Does anybody know what to look for? It just happen after recent upgrade. -- Joseph -- Willie Matthews matthews.wil...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] startx with multiple window managers
I've also created aliase for kde awesome (.bashrc): alias kde=startx kde alias awesome=startx awesome Means whenever i want to start kde or awesome i only have to execute kde or awesome. By default (startx) it would start kde. I've wondered how to run X simultaneously or concurrently with more than one window manager or with sessions for multiple users, root and nonroot. But to choose between window managers, I have multiple xinitrc files, like startx /usr/local/lib/X11/xinit/xinitrc.icewm That is for FreeBSD; actual path will vary by OS and distro. Tom
Re: [gentoo-user] evince / firefox will not print to a specific directory
That is interesting. I have the exact same problem. Tried to save it to the desktop and it saved to my home directory.On the second try I typed in the directory that I wanted to save the file. Instead of output.pdf, I put /home/ill/Desktop/output.pdf. It's not a fix but it works. I think you can use ~ for your home directory. Thus, if your login name is ill, ~/Desktop/output.pdf I do that with Firefox and Seamonkey, since I have many subdirectories for different purposes. I never or hardly ever use ~/Desktop . I think this works generally in Linux and BSD. Tom
[gentoo-user] Can I build a ipv6 access point by hostapd and dnsmasq?
I have sucessfully build a ipv4 access point , 1)edit /etc/dnsmasq.conf and add interface=wlan0 except-interface=lo dhcp-range=10.0.0.2,10.0.0.9,12h 2)create a file name hostapd.conf: interface=wlan0 driver=nl80211 ssid=pqy hw_mode=g channel=8 wpa=3 wpa_passphrase=pqy5 3)create a file name ap.sh: #!/bin/bash pkill hostapd pkill dnsmasq sleep 1 ifconfig wlan0 10.0.0.1 netmask 255.255.255.240 iptables -t nat -A POSTROUTING -o eth0 -j MASQUERADE echo 1 /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward hostapd -B hostapd.conf /etc/init.d/dnsmasq restart then sudo sh ap.sh I can connect to this ipv4 network.But I have no idea how to deal with ipv6. Is it possible to create ipv6 local network?
[gentoo-user] Re: The NVIDIA/Kernel fiasco -- is it safe to sync yet?
On Sat, 24 Aug 2013 00:15:40 +0200 Paul Klos gen...@klos2day.nl wrote: Op vrijdag 23 augustus 2013 14:09:59 schreef Randy Westlund: On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 10:45:46AM -0700, Chris Stankevitz wrote: Are regular nvidia users who run a completely stable system (with only stable nvidia-drivers and stable gentoo-sources) affected by any of this? I believe so. I run testing, but this just cleared up for me a few days ago when I went to kernel 3.10.7 (stable). I'm currently running kernel 3.10.9 and nvidia-drivers 325.15 (both testing), which works just fine. Try it and see what happens. Updated to gentoo-sources 3.10.7 (stable) today. I had (stable) x11-drivers/nvidia-drivers-319.32 which failed rebuilding. After keywording x11-drivers/nvidia-drivers I'm on 325.15 as well. Seems to be fine so far. Same here, amd64 It looks like maybe the best way to tell which ebuilds support which kernels is to read the conditional for the ewarn message in each ebuild.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: The NVIDIA/Kernel fiasco -- is it safe to sync yet?
On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 9:12 PM, »Q« boxc...@gmx.net wrote: It looks like maybe the best way to tell which ebuilds support which kernels is to read the conditional for the ewarn message in each ebuild. If this sort of problem spreads it might be good to build into portage some kind of blocker/keyword mechanism so that users need not deal with this not that I have any appreciation for the work involved. http://www.gentoo.org/main/en/philosophy.xml The goal of Gentoo is to design tools and systems that allow a user to do that work as pleasantly and efficiently as possible, as they see fit. Our tools should be a joy to use, and should help the user to appreciate the richness of the Linux and free software community, and the flexibility of free software. Kind of funny... Gentoo's mandate is sort of at odds with itself. A joy to use while simultaneously giving full flexibility. Chris
Re: [gentoo-user] startx with multiple window managers
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 $ xinit lxsession -- :1 ? - -- Stop talking and start compiling. Linux user #557897 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.20 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJSGD0XAAoJEK64IL1uI2ha4SMH/3kCws5J3ik+LKRqC7rkaNVe AA7kBumcy0I7EAkGW/lGPtKjHtHlDcDtZumUyApJpDBZQ3PXP1amaBD5qz5qf5Yq 3u1qnWSRNGtEZfQCGtJxOWV70f506PXvdle5Pif9LETsh+4bDUH03GKjmuin2ClV 0Fi1tMHQABwvahXYGxo6poL39FKw2ucyAGsEgL7MMGdW9igMQ8KuhvMqtKY12msf OqO0dA9nYx/MzIyMJOZwYLjuzYudkva8quFMEdky8U7KHu00FPpXjJbNnpSYikqx jV/lV81nuh7JtZE0AYUeAlStVBa5S24ehCCbuR6zOefE9c6Ze4TVIEpmEitBHzs= =xqJ2 -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Advice needed regarding udisks
Just saying you should be using `udisksctl` command instead of the now obsolete `udisks` command udisksctl command = new udisks 2 udisks command = old udisks 1 OK, but first I need to figure out how to get gvfs to use udisks instead of gdu. by emerging gnome-base/gvfs from ~arch with USE=udev udisks the stable gnome-base/gvfs is not compatible with UDisks 2.1 but by upgrading gnome-base/gvfs on stable to ~arch version with USE=udev udisks is then again not compatible all the way with GNOME 2.x, so that's why it's still in ~arch If I keyword gvfs I get into trouble because gobject-introspection wants dev-libs/glib-2.33 and gvfs wants =dev-libs/glib-2.36. - Grant
