[gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's future directtion ?
hasufell hasuf...@gentoo.org wrote: With rsync I believe you can exclude categories: http://www.gentoo-wiki.info/TIP_Exclude_categories_from_emerge_sync That is uninformed. I think he is right. check the --depth option of git. You can even clone specific tags with --depth=1. Every tag will still contain all categories: AFAIK, with git, it is not possible to update everyting but e.g. *access* *kde* *i10n* *gnome* if you know that you will never install an ebuild from these categories.
Re: [gentoo-user] The future of linux, and Gentoo specifically now
On Fri, Nov 21, 2014 at 12:36 PM, Philip Webb purs...@ca.inter.net wrote: Adoption of Systemd by other major distros sb good for Gentoo. Disgruntled Debians, Fedoras, Archies (IIRC they've also adopted it) will have a choice of giving in or moving to Slackware or Gentoo. Many of them may decide the moderate amount of extra work with Gentoo is well worth the freedom to use a more traditional init system as serious programmers, many wb able to offer help to Gentoo development. I wouldn't bet to much on that. One of the most vocal anti-systemd Debian users tried either Gento or Funtoo and reported that installation and maintenance were difficult. Binary distros do make things rather easier, especially if you start to play with USE flags on a source distro.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: The future of linux, and Gentoo specifically now
On Sun, Nov 23, 2014 at 2:24 PM, Rich Freeman ri...@gentoo.org wrote: Some devs take this stuff too personally. Only the devs? LOL
[gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's future directtion ?
hasufell hasufell at gentoo.org writes: I still don't see a good argument why we made our system so inflexible, that obviously needed change needs such high amount of work, PR and proof. I think that most folks appreciate your efforts and insightful ideas on how to open up development, particularly in non-critical (non-core) areas. The quesiton is how do we get from where we are to where we want to be. I find most of what I'm interested in already in Arch Linux. I wonder why it is so much easier for Arch users to create pkgbuilds (like gentoo's ebuilds) and find a dev to adopt the package? Surely someone has some insight on this differences, or do I miss something that creats the difference? [1] I also find the Arch documentation to be of the finest quality of any and all linux distros, close to gentoo. ymmv. Trying to improve a tiny fraction about gentoo workflow (including your attempts) already took more than 4(?) years with never ending excuses. The necessity was more than obvious. Now I could talk about similarly obvious things. Sure, not all issues are obvious and those shouldn't be easy to push through. Everyone understands small changes and all changes take time for the majority of members to digest, imho. Not everyone has your keen insight into the problem/opportunity. So your patience in explanation, encouragement and solicitation, is very important, if your idea is to be implemented and tested. Naturally, Rich and other deeply involved devs, with addtional responsibilities exude caution, to keep the gentoo stable. They will not be the source of team building for your idea, imho. You can draw your conclusions about this. I drew mine: small changes will not get us out of here. I think the jury is still out. So, why can't we test a transient plan where we take something very broken areas at Gentoo (games or java or sys-cluster) and test out your hypothesis for package development expansion? In fact, I've been looking over quite a few ebuilds and pkgbuilds at (Arch linux). [2] I see quite a lot of commonality. So, why can we not modify this aforementioned inflexible system on gentoo to allow for Arch Linux pkgbuilds to be routinely compiled and installed on gentoo? Maybe limit the test to /usr/local/portage or /usr/local/portage/test/ so folks can participate or purge the experiment? Maybe find some Arch linux devs keen on the idea of developing/evolving package management so that the two distros can readiy (or more easily) convert packages between Arch and Gentoo? Is it possible? Could your plan be modified to include a variety of Arch developers? Surely you have a collection of devs ready to implement your keen ideas? I, for one realize something fundamental has to change with Gentoo, after pushing a few months on java and cluster codes Also, there is a vast array of software, of various quality, among the overlay repositories to use as test-packages? The biggest thing I seen wrong with Arch is they have forced systemd onto their users, and all of the arch users I know, are not very happy about that. So if you approach this correctly, I'm sure quite a few Arch linux folks would also test your offerings. Have fun, if you can. Always we should have fun. That is why we should deeply discuss these issues to find common ground. Maybe fixing this inflexible system should involve a survey of those distros closest to gentoo, for ideas, particulary several (structured) methods to install packages, provide choices for the init system, and strongly advocate package development within the ranks of the user base. Clear and concise documentation, concurrent with this effort is probably your single greatest alley, should your idea and leadership prove successful. hth, James [1] http://www.volkerschatz.com/unix/ebuilds/ebuilds.html [2] https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/sl/slurm-llnl/PKGBUILD
[gentoo-user] Python Installation
Hi, I have python2.7 and python3.4 installed here. I'd like to emerge any packages which use python only for python3.4 unless this package can only be installed for python2.7. Currently, I have the following in /etc/portage/make.conf and with this configuration, packages which can be installed for python2.7 and python3.4 are install twice (for 2.7 and 3.4). What am I doing wrong? PYTHON_TARGETS=python2_7 python3_4 USE_PYTHON=2.7 3.4 PYTHON_SINGLE_TARGET=python2_7 Many thanks for a hint, Helmut
Re: [gentoo-user] The future of linux, and Gentoo specifically now
On Sun, Nov 23, 2014 at 3:23 PM, Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote: On 11/23/2014 1:07 PM, Canek Peláez Valdés can...@gmail.com wrote: So, don't be surprised if FreeBSD develops something *really* similar (along the lines of the second bullet) to systemd in the future Doesn't matter because: a) it won't be systemd (with all of its warts) b) it won't be written by Lennart and company (so won't have any of that baggage either) I'm a happy sysvinit+sysvrc, upstart, sysvinit+openrc, and systemd user. As far as an init system brings up the OS, starts the daemons that I want, and allows me to troubleshoot failures, I couldn't care less what init system's controlling boot. I therefore find anti-systemd posts like this one puzzling, and even surreal, since the people making them are theoretically technical, and therefore logical. Lennart made some design choices that I wish that he hadn't made but I'm not losing any sleep over this; and I don't understand why anyone else should.
Re: [gentoo-user] The future of linux, and Gentoo specifically now
On Sun, Nov 23, 2014 at 3:26 PM, Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote: On 11/23/2014 3:23 PM, Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote: Also, I'll wager it likely won't be implemented in such a way as to be perceived by its user base as being shoved down their throats. Clarification - this reference was actually to the way Debian is handling it, not Gentoo - I have no problems whatsoever with the way gentoo is handling systemd ... right now at least... Gentoo has the advantage of being source-based and allowing 'USE=... -systemd ...'. If the Debianites opposed to using systemd were willing to systemd-shim and cgmanager, they wouldn't be feeling forced.
Re: [gentoo-user] The future of linux, and Gentoo specifically now
On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 11:53 PM, Gevisz gev...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, 24 Nov 2014 21:05:16 + Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk wrote: On Mon, 24 Nov 2014 20:25:22 +0200, Gevisz wrote: I switched from Ubuntu 10.04 to Gentoo just because it forced closing window button x to the upper-left corner of the window in Unity of Ubuntu 12.04 while I used to look for it in the upper-right corner. :) Wouldn't it have been easier to use the simple configuration option to move the button back to where you expected it? Far less effort than switching distros. No. It is not possible in Unity or, at least, it was not possible in Unity at the time when Ubuntu 12.04 was released. They really *forced* their users to accept the new place of the closing window frame button and have argued that it is more ergonomic. It was possible with gconf-editor.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: The future of linux, and Gentoo specifically now
On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 2:34 AM, Gevisz gev...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, 25 Nov 2014 22:02:49 + (UTC) Grant Edwards grant.b.edwa...@gmail.com wrote: I prefer Gentoo over Ubuntu for a host of other reasons, but switching from Ubuntu to Gentoo just to get a different desktop seems like overkill. Strange enough but according to the information from the DistroWatch.com Ubuntu lost a lot of users and its status of the most popular Linux distribution after switching from Gnome2 to Unity in its 12.04 LTS release. It's easy for Distrowatch to claim something that's unprovable. And its not about a small change in an interface, it is about we-know-better-what-you-need approach that drove quite a lot of companies to bankrupcy. The rationale at the time was that they wanted to use the right side of the window bar for an unspecified something else. So they didn't provide an integrated guified way to move the windows controls back to the right; but gconf-editor was always an apt-get away. There's still nothing there so they've either changed their minds, were BSing us and simply wanted to imitate OS X, or were BSing us and simply wanted to differentiate Unity from Gnome.
Re: [gentoo-user] The future of linux, and Gentoo specifically now
Am 27.11.2014 um 12:00 schrieb Tom H: I wouldn't bet to much on that. One of the most vocal anti-systemd Debian users tried either Gento or Funtoo and reported that installation and maintenance were difficult. Binary distros do make things rather easier, especially if you start to play with USE flags on a source distro. Of course they did. Installing Debian or let's say Ubuntu or Linux Mint is a nobrainer, a streamlined, fast quick and convenient experience, even on most legacy hardware you're done under one hour. Installing Gentoo forces you to think about stuff and know stuff you don't need to know when e.g. using Ubuntu. The Gentoo way equivalent to such distributions is Sabayon: comes with a fully fledged installer (the same like Fedora btw), precompiled binaries and installing doesn't take long. Gentoo is more likely your thing if you want to master your hardware or have quite much knowledge about it. The rest uses other stuff.
Re: [gentoo-user] The future of linux, and Gentoo specifically now
Am 27.11.2014 um 15:21 schrieb Tom H: Lennart made some design choices that I wish that he hadn't made but I'm not losing any sleep over this; and I don't understand why anyone else should. Three frequently brought up issues: 1. Lennart Poettering does not exactly have a track record of making excellent software, more likely making banana software and if he loses interest in his project, hopefully someone will take over. Though him stepping back from Systemd would not be a big issue, because Red Hat does endorse and support it and for sure would find someone else to step up. Excellent software though is another cup of coffee, many just don't want to have his stuff being responsible for booting up their system because of his track record and personal attitude he shows at some conferences and is being held up against him quite frequently. (For example stuff like this here should not happen: https://plus.google.com/+TheodoreTso/posts/4W6rrMMvhWU) 2. The Red Hat wants to take over all other Linux distributions, then squash them and Systemd it their trojan horse. 3. Systemd just got way too big and complicated for the taste of many techies, also usurping the development of other key components which in former times where independent (think about udev, there's a reason for why the eudev-fork came into existance). This and Systemd becoming a hard dependancy for important software packages.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: The future of linux, and Gentoo specifically now
On Thu, Nov 27, 2014 at 9:36 AM, Tom H tomh0...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 2:34 AM, Gevisz gev...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, 25 Nov 2014 22:02:49 + (UTC) Grant Edwards grant.b.edwa...@gmail.com wrote: I prefer Gentoo over Ubuntu for a host of other reasons, but switching from Ubuntu to Gentoo just to get a different desktop seems like overkill. Strange enough but according to the information from the DistroWatch.com Ubuntu lost a lot of users and its status of the most popular Linux distribution after switching from Gnome2 to Unity in its 12.04 LTS release. It's easy for Distrowatch to claim something that's unprovable. Yeah, you won't find too much Distrowatch love around here. :) Their metrics are dubious at best. They don't count Gentoo users who don't visit the distrowatch website, and they probably don't count most of the Gentoo users who DO visit the distrowatch website since we tend to follow upstream and don't whore for metrics in all of our user_agent strings or for ad dollars in our default search engines. This actually has involved turning down money in the past. -- Rich
Re: [gentoo-user] The future of linux, and Gentoo specifically now
On Thu, Nov 27, 2014 at 8:43 AM, Marc Stuermer m...@marc-stuermer.de wrote: Am 27.11.2014 um 12:00 schrieb Tom H: I wouldn't bet to much on that. One of the most vocal anti-systemd Debian users tried either Gento or Funtoo and reported that installation and maintenance were difficult. Binary distros do make things rather easier, especially if you start to play with USE flags on a source distro. Of course they did. Installing Debian or let's say Ubuntu or Linux Mint is a nobrainer, a streamlined, fast quick and convenient experience, even on most legacy hardware you're done under one hour. Installing Gentoo forces you to think about stuff and know stuff you don't need to know when e.g. using Ubuntu. The Gentoo way equivalent to such distributions is Sabayon: comes with a fully fledged installer (the same like Fedora btw), precompiled binaries and installing doesn't take long. And Sabayon uses systemd, of course. Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Profesor de asignatura, Facultad de Ciencias Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
[gentoo-user] nginx ssl
Hello, has someone here running nginx with comodo ssl? I try it yet since few hours but nginx say something what i can not understand. nginx -t nginx: [emerg] SSL_CTX_use_PrivateKey_file(/var/www/de/etc/ssl/de.key) failed (SSL: error:0B080074:x509 certificate routines:X509_check_private_key:key values mismatch) nginx: configuration file /etc/nginx/nginx.conf test failed I become from comodo a zip with a bundle file and the crt file. # ssl ssl_certificate /var/www/de/etc/ssl/de.ca-bundle; ssl_certificate_key /var/www/de/etc/ssl/de.key; ssl_protocols TLSv1 TLSv1.1 TLSv1.2; ssl_ciphers 'AES256+EECDH:AES256+EDH'; ssl_prefer_server_ciphers on; But want not work. Check run with the error message missmatch. Has someone expierence here? Thank you Nice day Silvio
Re: [gentoo-user] The future of linux, and Gentoo specifically now
Am 27.11.2014 um 16:22 schrieb Canek Peláez Valdés: And Sabayon uses systemd, of course. Holy moly... never noticed that this happened.
Re: [gentoo-user] The future of linux, and Gentoo specifically now
On Thu, Nov 27, 2014 at 1:06 PM, Marc Stürmer m...@marc-stuermer.de wrote: Am 27.11.2014 um 16:22 schrieb Canek Peláez Valdés: And Sabayon uses systemd, of course. Holy moly... never noticed that this happened. Sabayon started rolling systemd in April 15, 2013[1]. By Sabayon 14.01, it was the default init[2]. They are in the process of dropping out support for OpenRC entirely [3]. It sounds really cool Sabayon, I should probably try it one of these days. Regards. [1] http://lxnay.wordpress.com/2013/04/15/rolling-out-systemd/ [2] http://www.sabayon.org/release/press-release-oh-oh-oh-sabayon-1401 [3] https://plus.google.com/u/0/+FabioErculiani/posts/1oLt6mT9r7r -- Canek Peláez Valdés Profesor de asignatura, Facultad de Ciencias Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] nginx ssl
On 11/27/2014 01:45 PM, siefke_lis...@web.de wrote: Hello, has someone here running nginx with comodo ssl? I try it yet since few hours but nginx say something what i can not understand. nginx -t nginx: [emerg] SSL_CTX_use_PrivateKey_file(/var/www/de/etc/ssl/de.key) failed (SSL: error:0B080074:x509 certificate routines:X509_check_private_key:key values mismatch) nginx: configuration file /etc/nginx/nginx.conf test failed I become from comodo a zip with a bundle file and the crt file. # ssl ssl_certificate /var/www/de/etc/ssl/de.ca-bundle; ssl_certificate_key /var/www/de/etc/ssl/de.key; ssl_protocols TLSv1 TLSv1.1 TLSv1.2; ssl_ciphers 'AES256+EECDH:AES256+EDH'; ssl_prefer_server_ciphers on; But want not work. Check run with the error message missmatch. Has someone expierence here? The CA bundle isn't your ssl_certificate, the *.crt file is. But you probably need to concatenate them together before all browsers will accept the cert as valid. See: http://nginx.org/en/docs/http/configuring_https_servers.html I suspect you need to do, $ cat *.crt de.ca-bundle chained.crt and then set, ssl_certificate /var/www/de/etc/ssl/chained.crt; Note: the order matters in the arguments for `cat` above.
Re: [gentoo-user] The future of linux, and Gentoo specifically now
so we pretty much established that dropping openrc isn't in the plans for gentoo right? Probably gonna be an option like bootloaders right? On 11/27/14 21:46, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: On Thu, Nov 27, 2014 at 1:06 PM, Marc Stürmer m...@marc-stuermer.de wrote: Am 27.11.2014 um 16:22 schrieb Canek Peláez Valdés: And Sabayon uses systemd, of course. Holy moly... never noticed that this happened. Sabayon started rolling systemd in April 15, 2013[1]. By Sabayon 14.01, it was the default init[2]. They are in the process of dropping out support for OpenRC entirely [3]. It sounds really cool Sabayon, I should probably try it one of these days. Regards. [1] http://lxnay.wordpress.com/2013/04/15/rolling-out-systemd/ [2] http://www.sabayon.org/release/press-release-oh-oh-oh-sabayon-1401 [3] https://plus.google.com/u/0/+FabioErculiani/posts/1oLt6mT9r7r
Re: [gentoo-user] The future of linux, and Gentoo specifically now
I think im just going to go to sleep. I really don't care if they drop support for it I'll just make my own ebuild / systemd emulation for whatever I need in spite of it, fork it and call it you can have it when you pry it from my cold dead hands linux. good night -Paige On 11/27/14 22:56, Paige Thompson wrote: so we pretty much established that dropping openrc isn't in the plans for gentoo right? Probably gonna be an option like bootloaders right? On 11/27/14 21:46, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: On Thu, Nov 27, 2014 at 1:06 PM, Marc Stürmer m...@marc-stuermer.de wrote: Am 27.11.2014 um 16:22 schrieb Canek Peláez Valdés: And Sabayon uses systemd, of course. Holy moly... never noticed that this happened. Sabayon started rolling systemd in April 15, 2013[1]. By Sabayon 14.01, it was the default init[2]. They are in the process of dropping out support for OpenRC entirely [3]. It sounds really cool Sabayon, I should probably try it one of these days. Regards. [1] http://lxnay.wordpress.com/2013/04/15/rolling-out-systemd/ [2] http://www.sabayon.org/release/press-release-oh-oh-oh-sabayon-1401 [3] https://plus.google.com/u/0/+FabioErculiani/posts/1oLt6mT9r7r
Re: [gentoo-user] The future of linux, and Gentoo specifically now
On Thu, Nov 27, 2014 at 5:01 PM, Paige Thompson erra...@yourstruly.sx wrote: I think im just going to go to sleep. I really don't care if they drop support for it I'll just make my own ebuild / systemd emulation for whatever I need in spite of it, fork it and call it you can have it when you pry it from my cold dead hands linux. Please don't top-post. That's the spirit. As long as you are willing to do the necessary work, no one can ever force you to use any software. Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Profesor de asignatura, Facultad de Ciencias Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
[gentoo-user] Re: The future of linux, and Gentoo specifically now
On Thu, Nov 27, 2014 at 03:46:06PM -0600, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: It sounds really cool Sabayon, I should probably try it one of these days. I'd say it's my favorite distro. Sadly, equo still doesn't know how to depclean. -- Nicolas Sebrecht
Re: [gentoo-user] Python Installation
On Thu, Nov 27, 2014 at 8:48 AM, Helmut Jarausch jarau...@igpm.rwth-aachen.de wrote: Hi, I have python2.7 and python3.4 installed here. I'd like to emerge any packages which use python only for python3.4 unless this package can only be installed for python2.7. Currently, I have the following in /etc/portage/make.conf and with this configuration, packages which can be installed for python2.7 and python3.4 are install twice (for 2.7 and 3.4). What am I doing wrong? PYTHON_TARGETS=python2_7 python3_4 USE_PYTHON=2.7 3.4 PYTHON_SINGLE_TARGET=python2_7 It doesn't work the way you are thinking. PYTHON_TARGETS=python2_7 python3_4 will result in many packages being installed for both versions. If you want to install some things for only python2.7, and other things for only python3.4, you will need to make use of package.use. PYTHON_SINGLE_TARGETS is used for a small number of packages which may support multiple python versions, but not simultaneously.
