[SUSPECTED SPAM] Re: [gentoo-user] Blacklist one of the pool's rsync server?

[Walter Dnes]

On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 01:25:27AM +, Grant Edwards wrote
> Is there any way for me to "blacklist" a pool rsync server so that
> emerge --sync won't try to use it?

  How about an iptables rule to block the bad address? BTW...

[d531][waltdnes][~] nslookup rsync.us.gentoo.org
Server: 192.168.123.254
Address:192.168.123.254#53

Non-authoritative answer:
Name:   rsync.us.gentoo.org
Address: 128.61.111.10
Name:   rsync.us.gentoo.org
Address: 128.61.111.8
Name:   rsync.us.gentoo.org
Address: 208.100.4.53
Name:   rsync.us.gentoo.org
Address: 156.56.247.193
Name:   rsync.us.gentoo.org
Address: 216.165.129.134
Name:   rsync.us.gentoo.org
Address: 141.219.155.230
Name:   rsync.us.gentoo.org
Address: 129.21.171.72
Name:   rsync.us.gentoo.org
Address: 134.161.116.17
Name:   rsync.us.gentoo.org
Address: 128.61.111.7
Name:   rsync.us.gentoo.org
Address: 128.61.111.9
Name:   rsync.us.gentoo.org
Address: 2607:f128:1:3::2
Name:   rsync.us.gentoo.org
Address: 2620:8d:8000:15:225:90ff:fefd:344c
Name:   rsync.us.gentoo.org
Address: 2001:48a8:11:97d::84:84

  An easy solution is to hard-code one working IP address in /etc/hosts
as rsync.us.gentoo.org

  /etc/portage/repos.conf/gentoo.conf has the "sync-uri".  Is it legal
to specify something like...

sync-uri = rsync://128.61.110.10/gentoo-portage

-- 
Walter Dnes 
I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications

[gentoo-user] Re: Blacklist one of the pool's rsync server?

[Grant Edwards]

On 2018-02-28, Dale  wrote:
> Grant Edwards wrote:
>> Is there any way for me to "blacklist" a pool rsync server so that
>> emerge --sync won't try to use it?
>>
>> I'm using the sync-url rsync://rsync.us.gentoo.org/gentoo-portage, but
>> one of the pool's servers is barely usable for me.  I don't know if
>> it's a server problem or if traffic between my and that server is
>> routed through a Mars orbiter.  When any other server is chosen, the
>> file list scrolls by faster than you can read it.  Via the Mars
>> orbibiter the list ticks by about one file every 5-10 seconds.  It
>> will usually finish (eventually), but sometimes hangs and times out.
>> It's been like for at least a year or two.
>>
>> [FWIW, I'm uable to ping the server, and tracroute is unable to produce
>> a route to it.  However, I can telnet to the rsync port on that host
>> and it connects.]
>>
>> When I see that server has been selected, I usually just hit Ctrl-C
>> and try again.
>>
>> Is there any way to configure portage to not use that server?
>
> Is it possible to add it to your hosts file and point it to local IP? 

No.  Because the name is rsync://rsync.us.gentoo.org/gentoo-portage.  

> Obviously, if it is a numbered IP then this likely won't work. 

I could, however, set up a static route for the IP in question and
point it to something that isn't listening on the rsync port.  That
won't make it avoid trying to use that server, but it would make it
fail immediately rather than let it crawl along along until it hangs
or I hit Ctrl-C. :)

-- 
Grant

Re: [gentoo-user] Blacklist one of the pool's rsync server?

[Dale]

Grant Edwards wrote:
> Is there any way for me to "blacklist" a pool rsync server so that
> emerge --sync won't try to use it?
>
> I'm using the sync-url rsync://rsync.us.gentoo.org/gentoo-portage, but
> one of the pool's servers is barely usable for me.  I don't know if
> it's a server problem or if traffic between my and that server is
> routed through a Mars orbiter.  When any other server is chosen, the
> file list scrolls by faster than you can read it.  Via the Mars
> orbibiter the list ticks by about one file every 5-10 seconds.  It
> will usually finish (eventually), but sometimes hangs and times out.
> It's been like for at least a year or two.
>
> [FWIW, I'm uable to ping the server, and tracroute is unable to produce
> a route to it.  However, I can telnet to the rsync port on that host
> and it connects.]
>
> When I see that server has been selected, I usually just hit Ctrl-C
> and try again.
>
> Is there any way to configure portage to not use that server?
>


Is it possible to add it to your hosts file and point it to local IP? 
Obviously, if it is a numbered IP then this likely won't work. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

[gentoo-user] Blacklist one of the pool's rsync server?

[Grant Edwards]

Is there any way for me to "blacklist" a pool rsync server so that
emerge --sync won't try to use it?

I'm using the sync-url rsync://rsync.us.gentoo.org/gentoo-portage, but
one of the pool's servers is barely usable for me.  I don't know if
it's a server problem or if traffic between my and that server is
routed through a Mars orbiter.  When any other server is chosen, the
file list scrolls by faster than you can read it.  Via the Mars
orbibiter the list ticks by about one file every 5-10 seconds.  It
will usually finish (eventually), but sometimes hangs and times out.
It's been like for at least a year or two.

[FWIW, I'm uable to ping the server, and tracroute is unable to produce
a route to it.  However, I can telnet to the rsync port on that host
and it connects.]

When I see that server has been selected, I usually just hit Ctrl-C
and try again.

Is there any way to configure portage to not use that server?

-- 
Grant

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Is --changed-deps going to be *that* useless?

[Michael Orlitzky]

On 02/27/2018 03:30 PM, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> 
> --with-bdeps=n. Once a package is installed, it doesn't matter what
> happens to its build deps.

FWIW, the rationale for enabling bdeps by default for "upgrade" actions
is that the old build deps are already installed; so if there's a major
security vulnerability in one of them, you probably want to update it.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Is --changed-deps going to be *that* useless?

[Neil Bothwick]

On Tue, 27 Feb 2018 18:08:48 +0100, tu...@posteo.de wrote:

> > A combination of --changed-deps, --with-bdeps=y and --deep is bound to
> > result in plenty of unnecessary re-emerging.
> 
> Hi Neil,
> 
> .andwhat do you suggest instead?

--with-bdeps=n. Once a package is installed, it doesn't matter what
happens to its build deps. When that package is updated, the build deps
will be too if needed, but there's no need to update them several times
in the interim.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

The road to HAL is paved with good intentions.


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Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Is --changed-deps going to be *that* useless?

[Rich Freeman]

On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 1:59 PM, Ian Zimmerman  wrote:
> On 2018-02-27 12:45, Rich Freeman wrote:
>
>> I use --with-bdeps=n because I really don't care that much about
>> build-time deps, other than stuff that is going to get updated anyway
>> like gcc.  These packages don't even need to be installed for software
>> to work correctly, and if a dev does miss an RDEPEND there is a decent
>> chance they'll miss it in DEPEND also.
>
> Ok, so this looks like the relevant one in the current mess, at least.
> But: if you omit --with-bdeps, what happens in the (relatively frequent)
> situation when an already installed package is being updated and
> acquired a new build dependency, which is not yet installed?
>

Portage will automatically install the new build dependency first.
Anytime you explicitly install a package portage checks all
dependencies and ensures they are met.  If either a build-time or
run-time dependency has changed and is no longer satisfied then
portage will take care of that before installing the package.

If a build-time dependency changes then by default portage will ignore
this unless the package actually needs to be reinstalled.

In theory you should never need --with-bdeps=y to actually keep
software running.  If things break without that option it is likely
due to missing dependencies somewhere.

That isn't to say that there aren't potential benefits to using
--with-bdeps=y and --changed-deps.  A package might not NEED its build
system updated to run, but if that build system provides some kind of
improved optimizations then updating the build system and rebuilding
the package could provide runtime benefits.  It just shouldn't be
needed to actually make the package run.  In practice significant
optimization improvements aren't that common from regular version
upgrades/etc.

-- 
Rich

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Is --changed-deps going to be *that* useless?

[Dale]

Ian Zimmerman wrote:
> On 2018-02-27 11:02, Neil Bothwick wrote:
>
>> A combination of --changed-deps, --with-bdeps=y and --deep is bound to
>> result in plenty of unnecessary re-emerging.
> So, what _is_ the recommended set of emerge flags for regular daily or
> weekly updates (assuming no binary packages)?
>


Over the years, I've ended up with this command and options set that
seem to work pretty well for most everything.  This is in make.conf:

EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS="--with-bdeps y --backtrack=100 --keep-going -v -j5
--quiet-build=n -1 --unordered-display"

After I run eix-sync, I then run emerge -uaDN world and give the updates
a looking over, to make sure the USE flags are like I want etc etc.  I
started out with fewer options but as issues popped up or options were
added that made things work better, they were added.  Some are done in
make.conf to make sure they are the default for every command, unless I
override it on the command line.  So far, it has resulted in a fairly
stable system even if I have some arch packages installed, KDE for
example. 

As usual, you may need something different but that has worked for me
and could be a starting point at least. 

Hope that helps.

Dale

:-)  :-) 

P. S.  On the rare occasion I want to add something to the world file, I
either do it directly or use --select y to override the -1 in
make.conf.  That helps keep the world file from getting cluttered up to
no end with things that shouldn't be there.

[gentoo-user] Re: Is --changed-deps going to be *that* useless?

[Ian Zimmerman]

On 2018-02-27 12:45, Rich Freeman wrote:

> I use --with-bdeps=n because I really don't care that much about
> build-time deps, other than stuff that is going to get updated anyway
> like gcc.  These packages don't even need to be installed for software
> to work correctly, and if a dev does miss an RDEPEND there is a decent
> chance they'll miss it in DEPEND also.

Ok, so this looks like the relevant one in the current mess, at least.
But: if you omit --with-bdeps, what happens in the (relatively frequent)
situation when an already installed package is being updated and
acquired a new build dependency, which is not yet installed?

-- 
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if you also post the followup to the list or newsgroup.
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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Is --changed-deps going to be *that* useless?

[Rich Freeman]

On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 1:12 PM, Wols Lists  wrote:
>
> If I emerge a new utility program (such as lame), I will change my
> global flags to tell other programs to use it. That is what
> --changed-deps is for - so the programs that were originally compiled
> without support will be re-compiled with support. No ebuilds have been
> changed anywhere ...
>

You're thinking of --changed-use.

-- 
Rich

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Is --changed-deps going to be *that* useless?

[Wols Lists]

On 27/02/18 17:43, Michael Orlitzky wrote:
> The --changed-deps flag, on the other hand, is a crutch for when
> developers make in-place edits to ebuilds and don't make the necessary
> revision bump.

I believe the --changed-deps flag is ALSO for USERS who want to change
settings on their computer.

If I emerge a new utility program (such as lame), I will change my
global flags to tell other programs to use it. That is what
--changed-deps is for - so the programs that were originally compiled
without support will be re-compiled with support. No ebuilds have been
changed anywhere ...

Cheers,
Wol

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Is --changed-deps going to be *that* useless?

[Rich Freeman]

On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 12:43 PM, Michael Orlitzky  wrote:
> On 02/27/2018 12:05 PM, Ian Zimmerman wrote:
>>
>> When I read this, I realize I don't understand the difference between
>> these two options.  Or to be more accurate, I know that --deep means
>> looking at dependencies beyond the first level; but isn't that just a
>> superset of those found by --changed-deps?
>
> You're right about --deep.
>
> The --changed-deps flag, on the other hand, is a crutch for when
> developers make in-place edits to ebuilds and don't make the necessary
> revision bump. The revision bump is required, but sometimes people
> forget or are just assholes and don't care that this is a huge hassle
> for end users. When you use --changed-deps, portage scans the tree for
> those sorts of mistakes, and rebuilds the packages that have been
> changed in-place, without regard to where in the dependency graph they lie.
>

To be fair --changed-deps also forces builds that aren't really
necessary.  Not all dep changes necessarily require a revbump.
However, you are right that these do get missed when they are
necessary, and really devs should just default to revbumping except
when they know it isn't needed.

I'm willing to bet that 95% of the --changed-deps rebuilds aren't
necessary.  The problem is that when one is necessary it tends to
result in problems that the average user is going to struggle to
troubleshoot.  I suspect most users would rather do a few more
rebuilds than to have stuff break mysteriously and be forced to try to
figure out what combination of package rebuilds is necessary to get it
working, and most people probably would prefer extra builds to
breakage even if it was easy to troubleshoot.

-- 
Rich

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Is --changed-deps going to be *that* useless?

[Rich Freeman]

On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 12:05 PM, Ian Zimmerman  wrote:
> On 2018-02-27 16:44, Paul Colquhoun wrote:
>
>> > > Yes, I use --deep. I've run into cases many times in the past
>> > > where portage was skipping updates unless I used --deep.
>> >
>> > You might want to avoid combining both --deep and --changed-deps.
>
> When I read this, I realize I don't understand the difference between
> these two options.  Or to be more accurate, I know that --deep means
> looking at dependencies beyond the first level; but isn't that just a
> superset of those found by --changed-deps?  If so, how would two runs of
> emerge (each with one of these options) help?  Based on my naive
> hypothesis above, emerge --deep would do everything that emerge --deep
> --changed-deps would.
>

Yeah, I mixed up --deep and --with-bdeps=y.

I would use --deep across the board - you want your runtime deps to be
up to date.

In my regular update script I have:
ionice -c 3 nice -n 15 emerge -auDkv --changed-use --keep-going
--with-bdeps=n --changed-deps --binpkg-changed-deps=y --backtrack=100
world

I'll note I haven't had a particularly exciting number of package
rebuilds in the last few days.

--binpkg-changed-deps is probably not essential as this setting is
actually the default, but since I use binary packages as much as I can
(built with cron the night before) I don't want old stale packages to
be used if I'm using --changed-deps, since that is just a waste of
disk IO.

I use --changed-deps because I don't quite trust devs to be revbumping
stuff when they should.  Many will argue it shouldn't be necessary,
and if we were better with QA I'd agree.

I use --with-bdeps=n because I really don't care that much about
build-time deps, other than stuff that is going to get updated anyway
like gcc.  These packages don't even need to be installed for software
to work correctly, and if a dev does miss an RDEPEND there is a decent
chance they'll miss it in DEPEND also.

Once in a blue moon I'll run into a situation where something has a
bad build dependency or a build system otherwise gets broken and I'll
go ahead and do a one-time update with --with-bdeps=y.  I probably
would leave out --changed-deps in this case unless things are still
broken.  Though, I do this so rarely I suspect it wouldn't make much
difference as so many build-time deps are going to get updated anyway.


-- 
Rich

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Is --changed-deps going to be *that* useless?

[Michael Orlitzky]

On 02/27/2018 12:05 PM, Ian Zimmerman wrote:
> 
> When I read this, I realize I don't understand the difference between
> these two options.  Or to be more accurate, I know that --deep means
> looking at dependencies beyond the first level; but isn't that just a
> superset of those found by --changed-deps?

You're right about --deep.

The --changed-deps flag, on the other hand, is a crutch for when
developers make in-place edits to ebuilds and don't make the necessary
revision bump. The revision bump is required, but sometimes people
forget or are just assholes and don't care that this is a huge hassle
for end users. When you use --changed-deps, portage scans the tree for
those sorts of mistakes, and rebuilds the packages that have been
changed in-place, without regard to where in the dependency graph they lie.

[gentoo-user] Re: Is --changed-deps going to be *that* useless?

[Ian Zimmerman]

On 2018-02-27 11:02, Neil Bothwick wrote:

> A combination of --changed-deps, --with-bdeps=y and --deep is bound to
> result in plenty of unnecessary re-emerging.

So, what _is_ the recommended set of emerge flags for regular daily or
weekly updates (assuming no binary packages)?

-- 
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if you also post the followup to the list or newsgroup.
To reply privately _only_ on Usenet and on broken lists
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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Is --changed-deps going to be *that* useless?

[tuxic]

On 02/27 11:02, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Feb 2018 12:15:24 +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> 
> > >> luky you...I got 462 packages to recompile...  
> > > 
> > > Ooh! Bloat warning!  
> > 
> > It got even worse just today.
> > 
> > Arch Linux is starting to look really, really tasty right about now...
> 
> A combination of --changed-deps, --with-bdeps=y and --deep is bound to
> result in plenty of unnecessary re-emerging.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Neil Bothwick
> 
> For every action, there is an equal and opposite malfunction.



Hi Neil,

.andwhat do you suggest instead?

Cheers
Meino

[gentoo-user] Re: Is --changed-deps going to be *that* useless?

[Ian Zimmerman]

On 2018-02-27 16:44, Paul Colquhoun wrote:

> > > Yes, I use --deep. I've run into cases many times in the past
> > > where portage was skipping updates unless I used --deep.
> > 
> > You might want to avoid combining both --deep and --changed-deps.

When I read this, I realize I don't understand the difference between
these two options.  Or to be more accurate, I know that --deep means
looking at dependencies beyond the first level; but isn't that just a
superset of those found by --changed-deps?  If so, how would two runs of
emerge (each with one of these options) help?  Based on my naive
hypothesis above, emerge --deep would do everything that emerge --deep
--changed-deps would.

Or not?  Please explain.

-- 
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if you also post the followup to the list or newsgroup.
To reply privately _only_ on Usenet and on broken lists
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Re: [gentoo-user] emerge @world and package.mask ?

[Steven Dürl]

Am 27.02.2018 um 14:29 schrieb Helmut Jarausch:
> I don't understand portage (any more).
> 
> I want to keep dev-qt/qt-meta-4.8.6 (QT4) which requires
> 
> media-libs/phonon[qt4]
> 
> I do have media-libs/phonon-4.9.1-r1[qt4,qt5] installed here.
> And in /etc/portage/package.mask I have
>> media-libs/phonon-4.9.9
>> media-libs/phonon-vlc-4.9.9>
> But still,
> 
> nice -19 emerge -v1 -j16 --update --keep-going --tree --changed-use
> --unordered-display --verbose-conflicts --deep --with-bdeps?y @world
> 
> requires me to remove that masks since it's going to upgrade
> media-libs/phonon and media-libs/phonon-vlc.
> Why doesn't emerge respect me my masks?

Hi,

maybe you want something like this in your package.mask if you don't
want phonon version > 4.10:

>=media-libs/phonon-4.10
>=media-libs/phonon-vlc-0.10

Also there's no phonon-vlc-4.9.9. phonon-vlc only goes up to 0.10.1,
that's why portage tries to update phonon-vlc.


Steven

[gentoo-user] emerge @world and package.mask ?

[Helmut Jarausch]

Hi,

I don't understand portage (any more).

I want to keep dev-qt/qt-meta-4.8.6 (QT4) which requires

media-libs/phonon[qt4]

I do have media-libs/phonon-4.9.1-r1[qt4,qt5] installed here.
And in /etc/portage/package.mask I have

media-libs/phonon-4.9.9
media-libs/phonon-vlc-4.9.9


But still,

nice -19 emerge -v1 -j16 --update --keep-going --tree --changed-use
--unordered-display --verbose-conflicts --deep --with-bdeps?y @world

requires me to remove that masks since it's going to upgrade
media-libs/phonon and media-libs/phonon-vlc.
Why doesn't emerge respect me my masks?

Many thanks for some hints,
Helmut

Output of emerge ... @world

media-libs/phonon:0

   (media-libs/phonon-4.10.0:0/0::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge)
pulled in by
 >?media-libs/phonon-4.10.0 required by
(media-libs/phonon-vlc-0.10.1:0/0::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge)
 ^^  ^^

   (media-libs/phonon-4.9.1-r1:0/0::gentoo, installed) pulled in by
 media-libs/phonon[qt4] required by
(dev-qt/qt-meta-4.8.6:4/4::gentoo, installed)
   ^^^
 >?media-libs/phonon-4.9.0[qt4?,qt5?] required by
(media-libs/phonon-vlc-0.9.1-r1:0/0::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge)
    

media-libs/phonon-vlc:0

   (media-libs/phonon-vlc-0.10.1:0/0::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for
merge) pulled in by
 (no parents that aren't satisfied by other packages in this slot)

   (media-libs/phonon-vlc-0.9.1-r1:0/0::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for
merge) pulled in by
 >?media-libs/phonon-vlc-0.9.0[qt4?,qt5?] required by
(media-libs/phonon-4.9.1-r1:0/0::gentoo, installed)=

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Is --changed-deps going to be *that* useless?

[Neil Bothwick]

On Tue, 27 Feb 2018 12:15:24 +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:

> >> luky you...I got 462 packages to recompile...  
> > 
> > Ooh! Bloat warning!  
> 
> It got even worse just today.
> 
> Arch Linux is starting to look really, really tasty right about now...

A combination of --changed-deps, --with-bdeps=y and --deep is bound to
result in plenty of unnecessary re-emerging.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

For every action, there is an equal and opposite malfunction.


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[gentoo-user] Re: Is --changed-deps going to be *that* useless?

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 27/02/18 01:55, Peter Humphrey wrote:

On Monday, 26 February 2018 18:42:33 GMT tu...@posteo.de wrote:


Hi Peter,

luky you...I got 462 packages to recompile...


Ooh! Bloat warning!


It got even worse just today.

Arch Linux is starting to look really, really tasty right about now...