Re: [gentoo-user] What's with all these "acct-group" ebuilds recently?

[Daniel Frey]

On 6/20/20 7:04 PM, William Kenworthy wrote:


On 21/6/20 9:40 am, Daniel Frey wrote:

On 6/20/20 6:21 PM, Rich Freeman wrote:

On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 7:06 PM Daniel Frey  wrote:


Maybe when I have a moment I'll file a bug.

Dan


Thanks for filing the bug.  One of my pet peeves is that the last few
years gentoo has been going down the path of spitting everything into
smaller and smaller pieces and scattering them around - its fine when
things work, but becomes a real pig to fault find and more often ends up
in a call for help.  I would really like packages to be self contained
so its configuration and files are all in one place.  I cant see any
advantage to having multiple ebuilds for a package instead of using a
support framework to deal with it other than exposing multiple
opportunities for things to go wrong and make it harder to fix. This not
an elegant design!

BillK





They were trying to solve the problem of having multiple packages 
dependent on a single user/group - mariadb/mysql comes to mind.


By having these types of packages depend on something in the tree they 
can prevent the condition of having to remove the user/group when 
another package may still depend on it. It's kind of the opposite to the 
virtual/* packages I think, or maybe that's the beer talking.


Dan

Re: [gentoo-user] What's with all these "acct-group" ebuilds recently?

[William Kenworthy]

On 21/6/20 9:40 am, Daniel Frey wrote:
> On 6/20/20 6:21 PM, Rich Freeman wrote:
>> On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 7:06 PM Daniel Frey  wrote:
>
> Maybe when I have a moment I'll file a bug.
>
> Dan
>
Thanks for filing the bug.  One of my pet peeves is that the last few
years gentoo has been going down the path of spitting everything into
smaller and smaller pieces and scattering them around - its fine when
things work, but becomes a real pig to fault find and more often ends up
in a call for help.  I would really like packages to be self contained
so its configuration and files are all in one place.  I cant see any
advantage to having multiple ebuilds for a package instead of using a
support framework to deal with it other than exposing multiple
opportunities for things to go wrong and make it harder to fix. This not
an elegant design!

BillK

Re: [gentoo-user] What's with all these "acct-group" ebuilds recently?

[Daniel Frey]

On 6/20/20 6:21 PM, Rich Freeman wrote:

On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 7:06 PM Daniel Frey  wrote:


You just pointed out the ambiguity.

Emerging a package solely by its name worked 99.9% of the time before
this change.

Now new users get the fun of "Gee, which one is the one I actually
want?" MythTV is a fairly clear one to figure out, but other packages
aren't.


Honestly, your word of "ambiguity" was somewhat ambiguous.  I had no
idea what you were talking about in your original post.  :)

I think this is actually a fair criticism.  Not so much that it isn't
clear which one to install, but rather that this system does cause you
to have to use full cat/pkg atoms when previous pkg alone would have
worked.  There have always been packages where this is necessary, but
this has made this more common.



Yes, I could've worded that better.

I would imagine that if someone asks to install something like mythtv or 
asterisk there's a 0% chance that they want to install a package that 
creates a user or group, they want the actual package itself.


I think that makes more sense.

I've been using gentoo since 2003/04? and I've only had to use the 
cat/package expression maybe twice... and I believe those packages were 
python or perl related.


It's more of a usability issue than anything.

The way that it now deals with user and group creation is elegant, 
especially if you have more than one package that needs a specific user 
and/or group combination created. When I first saw portage spit out the 
ambiguity for the request `emerge mythtv` the first thing I thought was 
"Why would I need to merge a package to create a user? That's the 
package manager's problem..." :o)


Maybe when I have a moment I'll file a bug.

Dan

Re: [gentoo-user] What's with all these "acct-group" ebuilds recently?

[Rich Freeman]

On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 7:06 PM Daniel Frey  wrote:
>
> You just pointed out the ambiguity.
>
> Emerging a package solely by its name worked 99.9% of the time before
> this change.
>
> Now new users get the fun of "Gee, which one is the one I actually
> want?" MythTV is a fairly clear one to figure out, but other packages
> aren't.

Honestly, your word of "ambiguity" was somewhat ambiguous.  I had no
idea what you were talking about in your original post.  :)

I think this is actually a fair criticism.  Not so much that it isn't
clear which one to install, but rather that this system does cause you
to have to use full cat/pkg atoms when previous pkg alone would have
worked.  There have always been packages where this is necessary, but
this has made this more common.

I don't think this was really something anybody thought of at the time
- perhaps somebody might have suggested a tweak at the time if it had
been.  As others have pointed out you could just tweak portage to
ignore the account category when expanding incomplete atoms to restore
the previous behavior.

In any case, as to why this system was devised just read:
https://www.gentoo.org/glep/glep-0081.html

It hasn't been communicated to users much because it tends to have
little impact on them.  Before packages just created accounts when
needed.  Now they pull in an account package that does it instead.  If
the user doesn't care to manage the uids/gids for various accounts
they don't need to worry about how this works.  If they do want to
manage these themselves they can either create those accounts manually
beforehand, or override these packages.  It is also much more obvious
when a new package is going to create additional accounts, so users
who care about such things can intervene before merging the packages.

Overall I'd say it is a net improvement.  It of course led to a whole
bunch of these packages being installed when the change was made, but
these would generally be no-ops for existing users.

-- 
Rich

Re: [gentoo-user] What's with all these "acct-group" ebuilds recently?

[Paul Colquhoun]

On Sunday, June 21, 2020 9:25:38 A.M. AEST Michael Orlitzky wrote:
> On 2020-06-20 19:06, Daniel Frey wrote:
> > I understand the dependencies problem that they were trying to solve,
> > but I don't think the way it was implemented is a great one.
> 
> This isn't a fundamental problem, it's your package manager being dumb.
> File a bug; I can think of several band-aids for this, like adding a
> flag to emerge that makes it prefer non-acct-* packages and then adding
> that flag to EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS.


Or do a quick check to see if any of the packages are dependencies of one of 
the 
other packages, and prefer the one highest on the ladder.


-- 
Reverend Paul Colquhoun, ULC. http://andor.dropbear.id.au/
  Asking for technical help in newsgroups?  Read this first:
 http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#intro

Re: [gentoo-user] What's with all these "acct-group" ebuilds recently?

[Ralph Seichter]

* Daniel Frey:

> You just pointed out the ambiguity.

I did no such thing, and there is no ambiguity. There is only the
failure to specify a package's identifier ("atom").

> Emerging a package solely by its name worked 99.9% of the time before
> this change.

Perhaps for the packages you used; I have obviously not verified
that. Even if it was the case, it was not guaranteed to work that
way. Package atoms are, and have been, of the form CATEGORY/NAME, not
just NAME. Emerge also expects atoms, not names (as do package.mask,
package.use, etc.).

> Now new users get the fun of "Gee, which one is the one I actually
> want?" MythTV is a fairly clear one to figure out, but other packages
> aren't.

"New users" can rely on Gentoo utilities like "eix", "emerge --search"
or "equery". There's also https://packages.gentoo.org . Thus, I see no
problem.

-Ralph

Re: [gentoo-user] Memory cards and deleting files.

[Wols Lists]

On 21/06/20 00:11, Michael wrote:
> PS. exFAT has made it into the latest Linux kernels.

Great. So linux may be able to read the card just fine, but it's still
useless in the device I bought it for ... :-)

Cheers,
Wol

Re: [gentoo-user] What's with all these "acct-group" ebuilds recently?

[Michael Orlitzky]

On 2020-06-20 19:06, Daniel Frey wrote:
> 
> I understand the dependencies problem that they were trying to solve, 
> but I don't think the way it was implemented is a great one.
> 

This isn't a fundamental problem, it's your package manager being dumb.
File a bug; I can think of several band-aids for this, like adding a
flag to emerge that makes it prefer non-acct-* packages and then adding
that flag to EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS.

Re: [gentoo-user] Memory cards and deleting files.

[Michael]

On Sunday, 21 June 2020 00:08:55 BST Wols Lists wrote:
> On 20/06/20 23:14, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> > It sounds like it may be filesystem corruption. With an SD card I'd
> > either reformat it, preferably in the device that will be using it,
> 
> If that's possible ... :-)
> 
> I now have two devices, my car radio and a tv, both of which require the
> vfat filesystem. New cards seem to come with exFAT. And of course
> neither the radio nor the tv have the option to format a card ... (and
> Windows has deleted the "format as vfat" option). Thank $DEITY for
> mkfs.vfat :-)
> 
> Cheers,
> Wol

There may also be a lock switch on the card itself or an SD card adaptor, if 
connected to the PC using an adaptor, although I expect Dale would have 
noticed that feature and unlocked it.  Sometimes the lock switch is faulty and 
will only make contact half way through, switching back to read only at the 
fully unlocked position - they don't make things as they used to anymore.  :(

Let's not forget corroded electrical contacts - I've had that happen with a 
USB stick, which accidentally fell in a cup of coffee.  LOL!  The coffee 
corroded the copper, but the problem only became apparent intermittently a 
week later.  Cleaning the contacts with fine wire wool and blowing away all 
swarf followed by a wipe with methylated spirit allowed me to access my files 
again.

To eliminate PC/adaptor problems, reinsert the card in the camera device it 
came with and delete/format it there.  If it still doesn't work, RMA it under 
warranty, or buy a new card, of a different make.  Then tell us all what make/
model it was, so we can all avoid it!  LOL!

PS. exFAT has made it into the latest Linux kernels.

signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part.

Re: [gentoo-user] Memory cards and deleting files.

[Wols Lists]

On 20/06/20 23:14, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> It sounds like it may be filesystem corruption. With an SD card I'd
> either reformat it, preferably in the device that will be using it,

If that's possible ... :-)

I now have two devices, my car radio and a tv, both of which require the
vfat filesystem. New cards seem to come with exFAT. And of course
neither the radio nor the tv have the option to format a card ... (and
Windows has deleted the "format as vfat" option). Thank $DEITY for
mkfs.vfat :-)

Cheers,
Wol

Re: [gentoo-user] What's with all these "acct-group" ebuilds recently?

[Daniel Frey]

On 6/20/20 11:56 AM, Ralph Seichter wrote:

* Daniel Frey:


I went to emerge mythtv (I think) and now it says it's an ambiguous
requests with *both* the group and user of the same name.


You need to emerge "media-tv/mythtv", not just "mythtv". Nothing
ambiguous about it.

Further reading: https://www.gentoo.org/glep/glep-0081.html

-Ralph



You just pointed out the ambiguity.

Emerging a package solely by its name worked 99.9% of the time before 
this change.


Now new users get the fun of "Gee, which one is the one I actually 
want?" MythTV is a fairly clear one to figure out, but other packages 
aren't.


I understand the dependencies problem that they were trying to solve, 
but I don't think the way it was implemented is a great one.


Dan

Re: [gentoo-user] Memory cards and deleting files.

[Neil Bothwick]

On Sat, 20 Jun 2020 12:09:02 -0500, Dale wrote:

> I thought I'd use a little more brute force.  I started the process over
> again the usual way.  I then went to a Konsole which is logged in as
> root, I did a rm -rfv for the main directory on the card.  It showed it
> deleted all the files.  I then did the sync command, to make sure
> everything was done, and told Device Notifier to unmount it.  I
> unplugged it and plugged it back up again.  When I mount it and open it
> with Dolphin, there the files are.  Even as root and not moving to
> trash, the files don't delete. 
> 
> Keep in mind, I can write new files to the little cards.  So I'm pretty
> sure it is not a write protection problem or a permissions problem. 
> It's just a can't delete or move to trash problem. 

It sounds like it may be filesystem corruption. With an SD card I'd
either reformat it, preferably in the device that will be using it, or
replace it, depending on how important it is.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Interchangeable parts aren't.


pgpKrC9P1bvx8.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: WARNING: Do not update your system on ~amd64

[Viktar Patotski]

Hi All,

First of all thanks for this thread! It helped me a lot. In short:

I was not able to login to my notebook after battery discharge reboot...
Thanks, I always have Gentoo live USB drive. So:

1. I booted to livecd
2. chrooted to my system (thanks I still not encrypted my hdd)
3. emerge --ask --update --newuse --deep @world
4. reboot
5. Happy Login!

:-)

Viktar Patotski

On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 5:44 PM Nikos Chantziaras  wrote:

> On 19/06/2020 15:31, Arve Barsnes wrote:
> > On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 at 12:49, Neil Bothwick  wrote:
> >>
> >> On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 10:55:46 +0100, Peter Humphrey wrote:
> >>
> >>> And today, pam and pambase are restored to their earlier versions
> >>> because sddm requires them. But sddm has not changed versions, so why
> >>> did portage want to upgrade pam and pambase on Wednesday?
> >>
> >> The sddm ebuild has changed without changing the version
> >>
> >> -   pam? ( sys-libs/pam )
> >> +   pam? ( <=sys-libs/pam-1.3.1_p20200128-r1 )
> >
> > I only got a message about skipping sddm on my world update, so
> > apparently I'm now running an unsupported pam version. Rebooting
> > worked just fine though, so what I gain/lose by staying like this is
> > unknown.
>
> I lost my Plasma auto login. SDDM would just display a black screen at
> boot rather than log me in automatically.
>
> Fixing it was easy though:
>
>emerge -a1 =sys-auth/pambase-20200304 =sys-libs/pam-1.3.1_p20200128-r1
>
>
>

Re: [gentoo-user] What's with all these "acct-group" ebuilds recently?

[Ralph Seichter]

* Daniel Frey:

> I went to emerge mythtv (I think) and now it says it's an ambiguous
> requests with *both* the group and user of the same name.

You need to emerge "media-tv/mythtv", not just "mythtv". Nothing
ambiguous about it.

Further reading: https://www.gentoo.org/glep/glep-0081.html

-Ralph

Re: [gentoo-user] R.pi 64 bit with 8/16 G ram?

[james]

On 6/20/20 1:12 AM, urp...@gmx.com wrote:

On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 01:36:29PM -0400, james wrote:

Folks,

Now, if/when this devices "is shipping", I can finally build out a 12VDC
pickup camper gentoo centric  "deep woods" mobile dev_shop.

I kid you not:
"Upton says the 64-bit image is for power users who want to map all 8GB
into the address space of a single process. It's currently in beta and
misses several key features, but once ready it will provide a 64-bit
alternative to 64-bit versions of Ubuntu and Gentoo."

GENTOO?   Wonder who is behind that bit of work?



https://www.zdnet.com/article/new-raspberry-pi-4-8gb-ram-model-out-now-for-75-plus-you-get-a-new-64-bit-os/?ftag=TRE-03-10aaa6b=29128215408769320614767878147805=12853938=2217268782

No kidding:

"Even the Raspberry Pi beginner's guide had a reference to an 8GB
variant, while the Pi 4's Broadcom BCM2711 chip supports up to 16GB of
LPDDR4 SDRAM."

16 G on  a pi?

I'm all in. Can Anyone  verify this offer?


curiously,
James



Yeah! "deep woods" I like it. I wanna make a mobile 12V system too.


12 VDC is pretty standard now for RV, boats and many environments. It's 
about finding, testing and deploying advanced gentoo systems on 12VDC 
where is can turn into a remote, secure palace. Surely I'll post, when 
my vision is ready.  I think, for me, usb4 is also quintessentially 
important. Jump into gentoo-embedded to find out what's going on any 
time. embedded and 12VDC, are synonymous, imho.


Microwaves, TVs, audio systems and host of other "fun-toys" can also all 
run on 12VDC.


Bye the way, deep woods is quite similar to ski-lodge, cross-ocean 
cruising, mountain climbing, arctic retreat,
island living, ranch-cabin, horse-back-camping etc etc. 12 vdc can store 
energy on batteries, such as optimas, yellow-top & redtop & bluetop and 
all sorts of exotic metal based batteries. A small energy footprint, is 
good for the earth, and 12vdc brings folks "closer together" so it is 
the ultimate e4nergy source on cozy nights with the ones you love


Diverting money from the large electric grid operators?
priceless

[gentoo-user] Memory cards and deleting files.

[Dale]

Howdy,

I have a couple deer trail cameras.  They use SDHC cards.  I have
several of these.  I was playing with one that hasn't been used in a
while and was going to set it up to use for other things.  I put it in
my card reader and opened it with Dolphin.  I then right clicked on the
directory and chose move to trash.  When it was done, I unmounted it
using Device Notifier.  I unplugged the card reader and plugged it back
in again.  When I mount it with Device Notifier and opened it with
Dolphin, the files were still there.  They didn't delete or move
anywhere.  There was no error either. Also, refreshing the tab in
Dolphin doesn't work either.  I thought maybe it just cached what was
there and wasn't updating so I did a F5 to force it.  Tried it several
times actually.  Also, before I unmount the card, it shows the files are
deleted.  They just reappear after a unmount and remount again.

I thought I'd use a little more brute force.  I started the process over
again the usual way.  I then went to a Konsole which is logged in as
root, I did a rm -rfv for the main directory on the card.  It showed it
deleted all the files.  I then did the sync command, to make sure
everything was done, and told Device Notifier to unmount it.  I
unplugged it and plugged it back up again.  When I mount it and open it
with Dolphin, there the files are.  Even as root and not moving to
trash, the files don't delete. 

Keep in mind, I can write new files to the little cards.  So I'm pretty
sure it is not a write protection problem or a permissions problem. 
It's just a can't delete or move to trash problem. 

Anyone ever ran into something like this?  When rm -rfv doesn't work,
I'm not sure how much more brute force there is short of a hammer. 

Thoughts??

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] MS-Teams on XFCE4/Gentoo

[antlists]

On 18/06/2020 12:03, Dr Rainer Woitok wrote:

Neil,

On Thursday, 2020-06-18 09:32:35 +0100, you wrote:


...
Am I getting old or do others also wish they could just get a text howto
instead of watching a video every time they want to do something new?


Don't know anything about your age  ...  but you should know  you're not
alone ... :-)


I've NEVER been a visual person.

Brought up in a house with books and no TV, and given the choice I would 
still live in one.


What was that sig? - "The sole purpose of X is to enable you to have 
multiple xterms open at once."


Cheers,
Wol

Re: [gentoo-user] What's with all these "acct-group" ebuilds recently?

[Daniel Frey]

On 6/19/20 9:04 PM, Walter Dnes wrote:

   Inquiring minds want to know.  What exactly do they accomplish,
besides cluttering up a database somewhere?



It's not the cluttering of databases that bother me, it's the creation 
of many ambiguous requests now. I went to emerge mythtv (I think) and 
now it says it's an ambiguous requests with *both* the group and user of 
the same name.


I must say I'm baffled that a proposal that would create so many 
ambiguous requests passed...


Dan

Re: [gentoo-user] emerge -u fails with "OSError: [Errno 12] Cannot allocate memory"

[Dale]

Sean O'Myers wrote:
>
> How do unsubscrib
>
>  
>
>


Each email source has this info.

List-Help: 
List-Unsubscribe: 

Make sure you send with the email address you subscribed with.  

Dale

:-)  :-) 

RE: [gentoo-user] emerge -u fails with "OSError: [Errno 12] Cannot allocate memory"

[Sean O'Myers]

How do unsubscrib

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: J. Roeleveld
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 3:36 PM
To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] emerge -u fails with "OSError: [Errno 12] Cannot 
allocate memory"

On 16 June 2020 20:31:56 CEST, n952162  wrote:
>Admonished to get everything updated, I turned to my raspberry pi with
>Sakaki's binary image.  Synced and updated portage with no problem.
>Then I did an emerge -u @world and got (after *hours* of dependency
>checking):
>
> >>> Jobs: 0 of 206 complete, 1 running Load avg: 2.84, 3.44, 3.85
> >>> Emerging binary (1 of 206) sys-libs/glibc-2.31-r5::gentoo
> >>> Jobs: 0 of 206 complete, 1 running Load avg: 2.84, 3.44, 3.85
> >>> Jobs: 0 of 206 complete Load avg: 3.60, 3.54, 3.87
> >>> Installing (1 of 206) sys-libs/glibc-2.31-r5::gentoo
> >>> Jobs: 0 of 206 complete Load avg: 3.60, 3.54, 3.87
>Exception in callback AsynchronousTask._exit_listener_cb(method...0x7f9180d9d8>>)
>handle: method...0x7f9180d9d8>>)>
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/usr/lib64/python3.6/asyncio/events.py", line 145, in _run
> self._callback(*self._args)
>   File
>"/usr/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/_emerge/AsynchronousTask.py", line
>201, in _exit_listener_cb
> listener(self)
>   File
>"/usr/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/_emerge/BinpkgPrefetcher.py", line
>31, in _fetcher_exit
> self._start_task(verifier, self._verifier_exit)
>   File "/usr/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/_emerge/CompositeTask.py",
>line 113, in _start_task
> task.start()
>   File
>"/usr/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/_emerge/AsynchronousTask.py", line
>30, in start
> self._start()
>   File "/usr/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/_emerge/BinpkgVerifier.py",
>line 59, in _start
> self._digester_exit)
>   File "/usr/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/_emerge/CompositeTask.py",
>line 113, in _start_task
> task.start()
>   File
>"/usr/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/_emerge/AsynchronousTask.py", line
>30, in start
> self._start()
>   File
>"/usr/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/portage/util/_async/FileDigester.py",
>line 30, in _start
> ForkProcess._start(self)
>   File "/usr/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/_emerge/SpawnProcess.py",
>line 112, in _start
> retval = self._spawn(self.args, **kwargs)
>   File
>"/usr/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/portage/util/_async/ForkProcess.py",
>line 24, in _spawn
> pid = os.fork()
>   File "/usr/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/portage/__init__.py", line
>246, in __call__
> rval = self._func(*wrapped_args, **wrapped_kwargs)
>OSError: [Errno 12] Cannot allocate memory
>
>What's the recommended course of action here?
>
>Log attached.

Suggestion:
1) ensure you only have 1 job running and absolutely no parallel builds. 
"--jobs 1" for both emerge and make

2) get SWAP, preferably on USB stick/harddrive so as not to kill the SD card.

Because rasppis are low on memory and they have very specific uses, I tend not 
to bother with Gentoo on them.

--
Joost
--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

RE: [gentoo-user] What's with all these "acct-group" ebuilds recently?

[Sean O'Myers]

How do unsubscrip from all

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Walter Dnes
Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2020 12:05 AM
To: Gentoo Users List
Subject: [gentoo-user] What's with all these "acct-group" ebuilds recently?

  Inquiring minds want to know.  What exactly do they accomplish,
besides cluttering up a database somewhere?

--
Walter Dnes 
I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications

Re: [gentoo-user] R.pi 64 bit with 8/16 G ram?

[Michael]

On Saturday, 20 June 2020 06:12:28 BST urp...@gmx.com wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 01:36:29PM -0400, james wrote:
> > Folks,
> > 
> > Now, if/when this devices "is shipping", I can finally build out a 12VDC
> > pickup camper gentoo centric  "deep woods" mobile dev_shop.
> > 
> > I kid you not:
> > "Upton says the 64-bit image is for power users who want to map all 8GB
> > into the address space of a single process. It's currently in beta and
> > misses several key features, but once ready it will provide a 64-bit
> > alternative to 64-bit versions of Ubuntu and Gentoo."
> > 
> > GENTOO?   Wonder who is behind that bit of work?
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > https://www.zdnet.com/article/new-raspberry-pi-4-8gb-ram-model-out-now-for
> > -75-plus-you-get-a-new-64-bit-os/?ftag=TRE-03-10aaa6b=291282154087693
> > 20614767878147805=12853938=2217268782
> > 
> > No kidding:
> > 
> > "Even the Raspberry Pi beginner's guide had a reference to an 8GB
> > variant, while the Pi 4's Broadcom BCM2711 chip supports up to 16GB of
> > LPDDR4 SDRAM."
> > 
> > 16 G on  a pi?
> > 
> > I'm all in. Can Anyone  verify this offer?
> > 
> > 
> > curiously,
> > James
> 
> Yeah! "deep woods" I like it. I wanna make a mobile 12V system too.

There may be better set-top boxes for the total cost of RPi + peripherals you 
would need to run it, but I have not looked into ARM embedded options for some 
time now.  For routers and high throughput miniservers I prefer amd64 
embedded, which cope much better esp. with AES-NI hardware encryption 
processing.

Anyway, according to the man behind RPi 16G is upper limit of what this BCM 
SoC can run theoretically, but:

"There really, really isn't a 16GB package that we could use, or a way to use 
a pair of packages ..."

https://www.tomshardware.com/uk/news/raspberry-pi-4-how-much-ram

I would think even if fatter RAM modules could fit on the board, power supply 
and cooling issues would introduce other design constraints and also push the 
price point above the market segment RPi are targetting.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [SOLVED] =dev-lang/spidermonkey-60.5.2_p0-r4 fails @world update

[Michael]

On Saturday, 20 June 2020 04:18:24 BST urp...@gmx.com wrote:
> On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 08:56:52AM +1000, urp...@gmx.com wrote:
> > On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 06:08:49PM +0100, Michael wrote:

> > > A single compile job on a big package can eat >3G of RAM.  I don't know
> > > what spidermonkey jobs may grow up to, but drop it down to '-j1' and
> > > see what you get.
> > > 
> > > A swapfile which you enable on a per ebuild basis if required, can be
> > > handy. You can configure this in a package.profile file. On an ext4 fs
> > > you could do this as root:
> > > 
> > > touch swapfile
> > > dd if=/dev/zero of=swapfile bs=4096 count=40
> > > mkswap -L Swappage swapfile
> > > swapon swapfile
> > > 
> > > If it is a btrfs you'll need to tweak things to be able to used it as a
> > > swap:
> > > 
> > > https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Swap#Swap_file
> > 
> > Wow. Thanks Micheal. That's really cool. I will try that.
> 
> I tried to merge the package again with -j1, just to see, but no go.
> Making a swap file just as Micheal said did the trick. Thanks a bunch.
> I made it in /home. Is that a bad idea? I guess I need to review my
> partion scheme. Thanks everyuone, it's great to be back on Gentoo again
> 
> (-: :-)

OK, you're definitely short on RAM then, but only for big monster compiles.  
I'd suggest you give Chromium a miss!  ;-)

Here's some general thoughts on this topic:

Big packages can consume a lot of RAM even for a single job.  A swap partition 
or file will help, but you could soon arrive in a temporary race condition if 
you use higher counts for MAKEOPTS jobs or if you're also using heavily the PC 
at the time, placing demands on memory.  If you have opened up a mail client, 
a dozen tabs on a browser, some music/video players, and are running a 
database & webserver, transcoding, etc. you'll find even a single job on a 
hungry compile will start paging in and out of swap continuously, thrashing 
the disk and applications/desktop will become unresponsive for minutes at a 
time.

Memory management then becomes necessary to avoid situations like this.

1. SWAP

You can add a swap partition, although this will require repartitioning.  
Alternatively, add a swapfile as I mentioned above.  It doesn't matter if you 
have the file under / or under /home, or some other data partition(s).  What 
matters is the file is owned by root:root and for security is set with 0600 
access rights.  If you're paranoid about security then the file can be placed 
on an encrypted partition.  I think I had set up a swapfile on a MSWindows 
NTFS partition once, because there was spare capacity there, so it pretty much 
does not matter where you set it up - although security may be a concern.

It is worth discussing the fs on which you place a swapfile.  As I have 
mentioned already BTRFS can be a problem, especially if you are running older 
kernels:

https://btrfs.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/FAQ#Does_btrfs_support_swap_files.3F

Defragging the fs before you create a swapfile may also be beneficial on 
spinning disks, to avoid fragmentation.  Other than these points, with modern 
kernels there shouldn't be much difference between a swapfile or a swap 
partition in performance terms.  If anything the swapfile has the benefit of 
being able to resize it if you need more space - or add a second swapfile too, 
on the same or different fs.

You don't have to use the swapfile every day, every time, if it only becomes 
necessary for large compiles.  In this case you don't need to add it in /etc/
fstab.  However, having some swap available at all times it won't hurt your 
system either.  The Linux kernel is intelligent enough to use it when needed.  
You could always interfere with swappiness to specify yourself how much and 
how often RAM is copied over to swap.  The default is 60:

$ sysctl vm.swappiness
vm.swappiness = 60

You can reduce it to swap less aggressively, or increase it to swap more so.


2. I/O BLOCK SCHEDULER

If at some point swapping starts (heavily) and you already have -j=1, you may 
discover the machine becomes less responsive.  Changing the kernel's block 
scheduler will help on spinning disks.

On a spinning disk the input/output queuing and buffering of data as is 
written and read off the disk can become a constraint, especially during heavy 
swapping, or heavy stints of writing on /var/tmp/portage, thereby slowing 
everything down to the point of frustration.  Changing the kernel block 
scheduler for a given disk or partition can help here.  The default is mq-
deadline:

$ cat /sys/class/block/sda/queue/scheduler
[mq-deadline] kyber bfq none

Changing this to bfq will improve responsiveness:

# echo bfq > cat /sys/class/block/sda/queue/scheduler

The above pointers ought to get you out of sticky situations when compiling 
large packages.

Happy emerging!  :-)

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Re: [gentoo-user] Testing a used hard drive to make SURE it is good.

[Dale]

Additional info.  I got the data moved and a smaller drive removed from
the LVM setup.  I decided to play with badblocks a bit and test the old
drive.  I'm testing with destructive patterns since that should
effectively erase data.  The old drive reported a few errors.  I did
some googling and found out that SMART can interfere with badblocks. 
Basically, it accesses the drive and that creates errors.  I found it
odd but decided I'd restart the test and see.  If it had a bad block, it
would still be bad.  I redid the test and so far, it has reported no
errors.  It seems what I found does happen. 

So, if anyone is running badblocks, make sure to turn off SMART for that
device until the tests have completed.  Otherwise you could get negative
results.  This is the command I'm using.

badblocks -wsv -b 4096 /dev/sdb 

If you copy and paste, make sure to edit the device.  When this is all
done, I may post some further details.  Oh, my frequent commands file is
growing.  ;-)

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] =dev-lang/spidermonkey-60.5.2_p0-r4 fails @world update

[Peter Humphrey]

On Saturday, 20 June 2020 00:07:45 BST urp...@gmx.com wrote:

> I haven't thought about these things in a long time. I've never had more
> than 4GB of RAM.

Welcome to the world of compiling everything from source.

-- 
Regards,
Peter.

Re: [gentoo-user] What's with all these "acct-group" ebuilds recently?

[Dale]

Walter Dnes wrote:
>   Inquiring minds want to know.  What exactly do they accomplish,
> besides cluttering up a database somewhere?
>


I found this:

https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Categories_acct-group_and_acct-user

Dale

:-)  :-)